How to weld uphill with flux core + Ton of tips 😀

In this episode we tackle vertical up with flux core wire and cover a ton of general flux core tips
0:00:00 Intro
0:03:09 Let’s weld
0:18:41 Conclusion
0:22:48 Bonus welds

[@brianhowe982]

I was having a sleepless late night when I saw this come up so it must have been evening for you. I didn’t watch it because I knew It would include lots of interesting points to think about and I wouldn’t sleep considering them and itching to test things out. I must say this video is particularly brilliant. Almost every aspect of the interaction of flux core settings is explained. If you don’t save anything else I’d say save this one. I normally make notes but with this I can rerun endlessly. Makes me wish my my machine had similar settings but I’m more than happy, at the moment, with its single dial adjusted algorithm. 😊

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the kind words 😀. Realistically a simple setup with automatic voltage to wire feed speed can still do a ton and if it’s designed decent can work very well. Many high end wire welders have auto set and basically that’s all they do, is adjust the ratio. No, you can’t exactly fine tune a simpler setup without independent adjustments, but in many cases it’s probably not needed 😀.

[@Cptnbond]

Hi Greg, your analysis and experiments are brilliant, a mix of a mad scientist and Sherlock Holmes. They are so helpful. Cheers.

[@mixpick138]

I may have already commented on this but I guess I wasn't paying attention as much as I thought I was. I'm self taught, well taught by guys like you, and I missed the part on keeping the wire pointed (more or less) straight in when going up hill with flux core. I've always had, "if it slags, you drag" burned into my birdbrain so I couldn't figure out why I kept burning through the material with the drag angle I was using. Anywho, I watched your vid again, paid attention, and guess what --a perfect uphill weld with flux core! If I was thinking about it, I would have realized gravity was providing all the drag angle I needed but thinking things through is not my long suite Lol. So, this is either thanks or thanks again, but rest assured your teaching this stuff is very much appreciated!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem 😀. The smallest details can make the biggest differences. Flux core is excellent at welding uphill, if you ever try mig you will be in for a shock lol. The puddle is so liquid you have to weave side to side to give the metal time to solidify so you can stack metal on it. Flux core makes uphill seem like flat position in comparison lol.

[@blue2824]

Very valuable lesson here. Thank you for putting in the time and effort to help us learn. Roy Auburn, WA. USA

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the kind words 😀

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the kind words 😀

[@DG-fn7qg]

Amazing how a little amp adjustment changed the weld profile. Another great video from the Master!

[@michaelzarutsky3624]

Thank you. Just learning here but was able to fully follow your Vs vs. wirefeed logic. Very clear explanations supported by examples. Nice. I presume this applies to any type of flux welds. Also, like the idea of running test welds and fine tuning the settings before attempting the "live" part. THIS wire/THIS metal/THESE settings. Many people pointed out that the same gauge wire from different manufacturers may behave somewhat differently. Thanks again 😊

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Glad it helped you out 😀. Flux core functions much like all wire processes so mastering it will help you with all wire welding. The only thing is flux core (both self shielded/aka no gas required and gas shielded) is far easier to weld vertical and overhead than most of wire welding in general. So although you will have the skills to run beads in the flat position, short circuit mig and other wire processes will take a bit different approach to weld uphil. Dual shield (gas shielded flux core) welds much the same as Gasless, so it’s very easy to run it if you can make good Gasless welds.

[@markdeitchman8938]

Greg, very helpful video. I appreciate the detailed analysis on relationship of volts to wfs to metal thickness.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Glad it helped you 😀. I have a video coming out tomorrow that goes into depth (45 minutes worth to be exact lol) on the relationship of heat to metal (volts to wfs). Definitely check it out, you will gain a ton of valuable insight. Back when I was learning to weld, stick and tig made a lot of sense because it’s a simple game of amps (or heat). Wire welding has two distinct variables that require a balancing act, and it can be hard to figure out which one is out of balance. Especially with flux core because you have to run values high enough so the flux works properly. All of that (and more) I tackled in the video 😀

[@VojislavCar-he3ii]

Excellent video!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

If it doesn’t load in HD make sure to select 720 (if your internet speed will allow) for far better picture quality. I dropped the video frames per second to 30 (from 60) for future videos to make sure it loads at higher detail. The speed is not of much concern for my style of videos so I reduced it (I only ran 5 or so videos at 60fps). Thanks for your patience, I definitely don’t know what I am doing lol. 😅

[@yurimodin7333]

great video once again

[@mkearn724]

Nice arc shots bro!!! I always enjoy your content

[@billbarry2984]

Awesome man, thanks for the great videos!!!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem 😀

[@sorenweisshartmann]

Really good video. Thanks

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem, hopefully your skill will progress fast with the tips 😀

[@paulshuppert4975]

From the lack of slag, with the proper technique with solid wire, I never went uphill as long as the metal was clean.

[@opa_plays_mw5318]

I learned mig, tig, stick, oxy, braze and forge via the Air Force back in 1980. No flux core back then, guys like you teaching allow hobbyist like me to do this. Thanks. The first part looks a little over crowned, got good at 17 min in or so.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem 😀. Flux core wire is really useful and gives a ton of capability. For a ton of general projects it’s perfect, and is far easier to run out of position than gas shielded mig.

[@colinhudson3723]

Watched this when you posted it up and it helped me out a lot . Needed to weld 0.8mm plate to 1.2mm wall tube and a fair bit of it was uphill albeit short 15mm tacks / welds but a shit ton of them . Dropped my voltage to 13.5v / 14v . It's was not easy but got it done thanks to these vids

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

You’re welcome 😀. As you gain skill it will be easier but thinner plate is always a challenge. Just like thin wall tube is stupidly hard to make great looking welds on. Never get discouraged, just try different things until you can get it 😀👍. Sounds like you got it done.

[@colinhudson3723]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I practiced a lot with my new machine before I took it out on sites . Made certain to get the heat dialed in on the sections that are not easily visible..lol btw it was all galvanized which in theory makes it thinner once it's cleaned . All my work is out in the field. Hell I used to have to weld thin walled with stick at one time , fluxcore is far easier. PS I did blow out 1 hole 🤦but we fill those ( weld not filler )

[@jimmywilson1388]

Awesome tips man, I could tell that last pass burned in better. The first 3 passes kinda had an alternating sound when you started out and the last pass just sounded great all the way through. I’m picking up little bits and pieces here and there and it’s all making more sense.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Yes, the sound, the brightness of the light, etc all play a roll. One of the best examples is Tig welding. When you learn tig at first your trying to precisely control the arc gap by staring at the tungsten to puddle distance. That is increasingly taxing for more than a inch or two. With more experience you control it by the change in light output. At the start of a weld I get the distance dialed in visually, and the amperage set. Then when I move I am paying attention to the light output. Brighter means longer arc gap, dimmer means shorter arc gap. Based on light output alone I can determine any change in arc gap. Similar things happen with flux core wire, the brightness of the molten puddle and size tell you how hot things are getting. Sounds tell you how close your settings are to ideal. The more you can interpret those things the better you will be 😀

[@jimmywilson1388]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I can’t wait to be at your level…😃 I want to learn how to Tig weld so bad but I’ll stick with my flux core welder for now. I’m having fun learning with it. Thanks again for teaching us rookies how to not suck as bad…😆

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@jimmywilson1388 everything comes with time. Master the flux core, it will make you enough money fixing stuff to pay for a tig welder 😀. Tig is the best though, provided you can clean the material. For me it’s relaxing and peaceful. And my clothes don’t get burned up with little holes from spatter which is nice 😀

[@litchar]

At four and a half meters a second should you have a bigger puddle.... perhaps on the floor?

[@robertlaw8510]

Do you live in Utah? Your videos are very interesting. Thank you for your videos. As I said they are very good. Right now I'm using flux core, but I often use normal MIG wire and use C25 air in the summer. I don't have a garage :-{

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I don’t live in Utah but I will be heading out there this year 😀. I am glad you have found use in the videos. Although I have a few workshops in my place, I can’t pull a vehicle into any of them. So I too do a ton of welding outside, so I feel your pain. Flux core wire and stick are my go to for a ton of jobs, and setup right both are awesome. MiG does produce less spatter and sometimes cleaner welds, but it has far inferior penetration to flux core wire (until you talk spray arc, which most home welders can’t run). You have to make do with what you have, and with a bunch of my videos you should really see solid improvements with your welding and gain confidence in knowing your building solid stuff 😀

[@bryanthornton6787]

Does any one brand of flux core wire (E71T-11) stand out from another? It looks like I can get the Hobart Fabshield 21B and the Blue Demon for about the same price.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Between the two I would go fab shield 21b. I really like that wire and have used it for a lot of projects.

[@bobd.fletcherjr4912]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️

[@morgb2321]

I'm a beginner, got a new machine , bought a high rated flux core wire from Amazon, set the machine up to flux mode properly, started to try welding on a picese of metal that is thick enough, the wire surprisingly doesn't weld ( like no beads at all) and instead it creates massive splashes of metal everywhere on low and high voltage, why you think that is happening ? What could be wrong I'm doing ? Thanks.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

What particular welder is it? Is the Mig gun hooked to the negative terminal?

[@things971]

Can you do more vids with the titanium 225? What do you recommend for a budget friendly oven for 7018.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So all of my stick welding videos I have directly apply to the 225. Even though it doesn’t have adjustable arc force it still runs 6010 and 7018 exactly as I like it. The dial on the 225 seems to be very accurate from 70 to 130 amps, so any values you hear me use in my stick welding videos will be the same values you want to run for similar results 😀. As far as a rod oven you need to determine if you need one. With the invention of esab 7018-prime and numerous other hermetically sealed rods, you can use them right out of the pack within 8-12 hours and they meet code for low hydrogen. If you have any left out of there pack technically they would need to be kept in a stabilizing rod oven until future use. Keep in mind a 7018 picking up moisture and the hydrogen embrittlement that goes along with it is only a issue for higher strength steels you might weld. Normal hot rolled a36 will not suffer hydrogen embrittlement welded with a 7018 that was kept in a package but not a rod oven, just as 7014 or 6013 won’t cause hydrogen embrittlement on that common metal. I made a really solid video on this subject in depth that should help the decision if you want a rod oven or not, here it is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXOZf32MfKloj5I If you decide to get a rod oven (which 7018s do tend to run better with a preheat) I would suggest getting a small one from Facebook market place. They sell for 80-140$ for a decent one suitable for 5lbs of rods. I would also highly recommend picking up esab 7018-prime rods because they are good to go out of the pack (no oven required) they run very consistent, and they come in smaller 4lb packs which is easier to run through than 5 or 10lb containers. I have a mini rod oven and virtually never use it because of the 4lb packs are about what I run through on a job.

[@peetky8645]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg good advice

[@bajafishtaco]

Greg I need to do these flux core weldds almost vertical lap welds 3/16 plate. There like a 80 degree angle almost completely vertical. Is the only way to do these lap welds uphill. Like I did some tests and it seemed to be the best way. I'm assuming I can't drag it downhill bc my tests with that method came out horrible. What's the best approach?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Flux core wire is definitely an easier process to run uphill, especially in comparison to mig. On such a setup with a lap weld I would run settings that are a pinch below what runs best on a flat plate. I would do a very slight oscillation forward and back (well more like up and down). Vertical up produces good root fusion due to the molten pool sagging, so manipulation shouldn’t hurt the root fusion much. By doing a slight stitch motion (3/32 to 1/8th movement forward) the puddle will freeze a bit, and allow you to stack the metal on metal. With decent wire and settings in the ballpark you should be able to handle it.

[@bajafishtaco]

@makingmistakeswithgreg thanks so basically just like this video. I'm gonna practice this exact setup till I'm confident to do the project . Thanks a million !

[@russpeaknuckel9525]

Is this the same way for aluminum ? Thanks

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Generally speaking Mig aluminum is push only, and it’s done very hot and fast. In the future I will probably cover it, I tig all aluminum so I don’t own a spool gun.

[@peetky8645]

what stickup does the fabshield ask for in 0.35?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

They say 1/2 in to 5/8th or 1.27 cm to 1.58 cm 😀.

[@peetky8645]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg thanks

[@stovolbelinche3178]

when would you use gas and flux core also they say the weld is only as stroung as the root what do they mean by that i know root is your first weld in other words were does the streangth come from

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So some flux core wire is run with gas, it’s called dual shield wire. The wire in specific has less flux content and more metal. It needs less flux because it relies on the shielding gas. It gives higher deposition (bigger welds) than non gas shielded flux core and it has more penetration than normal gas shielded mig wire. It’s very good for thick metal. The root of a joint is a big part of the strength. The root is the area where two plates meet. Without proper “root fusion” you can have a issue where a weld just bridges the root. Depending on how the part your welding is designed, a lack of fusion in the root can cause the plates to use the weld as a fulcrum point. It basically can leverage with mechanical advantage with the weld itself as a pivot point. With proper root fusion on something like a fillet weld, it is much stronger because you eliminate the weld being used as a pivot because the bottom of the top plate is held to the bottom plate. I will be doing a video on this soon to really make more sense of it 😀

[@AXNJXN1]

Greg, I think (@Cptnbond) said it quite well but I'll add, the sheer amount of shared knowledge and alternative instruction in how you present 'adjustments' and then share THOSE outcomes, is immeasurable to the community. I absolutely learn something from each video you share. I'd like to ask you however, with these vertical welds, you basically covered down on EVERY solution out there, minus one that I was wondering if you think would make a difference? When you finally upped the voltage to 16.3 and came out with another bead value, let's say it was more rounded; could you present/enter maybe to balance that out more with a WIDE 'C" motion to spread that weld out a little? Would that assist in the compensation vs just angled at the root? Thank you for another great tutorial!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the kind comment 🙂. Hopefully this helps you with your question: When running vertical up with gas shielded mig it is very difficult to run a stringer bead (aka no weave, or C movement) because the weld will “sag”. So the general rule is to do a side to side movement to flatten the bead. Flux core wire on the other hand, can be run in a single stinger pass vertical up, without sagging. With dual shield it is actually preferred to run straight in, Gasless flux core as well. Now you could actually do a weave with Gasless flux core, but you must remember that you will have a trade off with penetration doing that. A small movement will definitely help tie it into the sides more, and will likely flatten the bead. The risk you run with Gasless flux core is the more weld you try to put down the more difficult it will be to keep porosity at bay. Gasless flux core works great in .030 to .035 wire on steel up to 3/16th thick. When you step up to 1/4in plate you can start to see issues with porosity when you put down too much metal. To solve this stepping up wire size to .045 will improve things. The hollow tube of wire can only handle so much voltage/amperage before it no longer performs properly. At 3/8th and above metal you will have undesirable porosity issues with .035 self shielded wire due to the gas not having enough time to escape the solidifying weld pool. Weaving it will likely make this worse. So based on the above info here are my simple thoughts on this: definitely consider doing a movement to get the bead to flatten out, but keep a solid eye on signs of porosity. One speck on the surface often means a bunch underneath. Do some practice pieces and do a cut and etch to see where things are at. If things are looking clean you’re good to go. I have a bunch more testing videos coming out for comparisons sale and you will find that flux core has a lot of undesireable outcomes if it’s run outside of its “sweet spot”. I also test dual shield in .035, which virtually solves the Issue of weld porosity.

[@AXNJXN1]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Excellent breakdown; much oblige. I run about 70% gasless flux with .030 aside from Stick. Even with really clean surfaces, I still see quite a bit of porosity in both welds which kind of dumbfounds me. Because as you know, even with a clean surface if you up voltage or wire speed, you risk burn through so it also is a trade off. Here’s the weird part; I have little to no porosity while running VERTICALLY?? 🤔😆 I have to Chuck this up to my methods and must improve I suppose. Nonetheless, thank you for the feedback, makes 100% sense!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@AXNJXN1​​⁠ the lack of porosity when running vertical probably has to to with the increase in heat input around the weld pool combined with the fact the weld pool sinks. It makes it easier to have the wire hit closer to the root so by time the weld puddle sinks the gas has escaped. In my recent testing with .035 flux core wire in the flat position I could not get rid of porosity on anything thicker than 1/4in plate, even at 205 amp output. On 1/4 and less plate .035 can make welds free of porosity without a whole lot of issues with good wire and good settings. Keep a eye out for the dual shield videos I have coming out soon. I bought a 11lb roll of dual shield .035 and have been testing it. It produces 100% porosity free welds so far in my testing, however I have not been able to get the penetration I would like to see. The welds are things of beauty 😀 with how clean they are.

[@AXNJXN1]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank you Sir! All makes sense. Will be interested in your up coming vids for sure. Cheers.

[@andrewbradstreet4218]

Well Sir, I'm gonna believe in you, an try some .030 US Forge wire from manards. My Miller cricket xl only accepts 10lb spools, but they're only 50$. The Lincoln nr211 is a hundred dollars. So I'm hoping it'll run good for me, just for the cost difference. Did you ever get your hands on the package I sent?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I did get my hands on it, I must have never responded to your email 😮. Sometimes I forget to do things if I don’t do it immediately lol. Thanks for everything and the punch too. I used the punch today on a small job I was doing, it was the only one that I knew where it was 😅. Also, that us forge wire is a solid option, I like it a lot. The fact it’s readily available and affordable is a huge plus. It feeds really good too since it was wound so nice.

[@ArcanePath360]

Wait, I thought if you had porosity and worm hole welds, your wire speed needs to be increased? At least with flux core? Have I been doing it wrong all this time?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So with flux core wire porosity is a indication flux is turning to gas inside the solidifying weld. The primary reason for this is too short of a stick out (not enough preheat of the wire). However if the settings are too far off (too cold) it can cause it as well. The first step Is to verify your stick out is correct and the second step of that doesn’t fix it is make sure your settings are in range for your machine. Poor material prep (contamination) also contributes towards it as well.

[@ArcanePath360]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for the tips. I will remember this. I'm usually going in closer to prevent spatter. I'm usually in a range of 15mm give or take 5mm, with my machine on low to medium, wire speed around 4-5. I'll try being further away but what I'm often doing is intricate work on small sculptures.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@ArcanePath360 there is some wiggle room for stickout. Generally the higher the voltage in relation to wire feed the closer you can get with stickout before you have issues. Running colder or at low values will promote porosity issues. Running smaller diameter wire will help (if available) because there is less flux to heat up. A lot of it is just general playing with stuff to find what works.

[@ArcanePath360]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I run 0.8mm wire. I always punch up the voltage to penetrate thicker steel, but a lot of the time I need to run colder to stop intricate things like 0.8mm mild sheet blowing out around it. I've just ordered a new, much better ground clamp, as the cheap rubbish Chinese one that came with the welder I suspect is not giving me good enough contact. It looks like it's barely got any metal in it, lol. I've also ordered some Tip Dip, to stop my nozzle getting clogged up. Thanks so much for the advice, much appreciated.

[@ArcanePath360]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg OMG you were right about my stick out. I've been welding this afternoon and trying longer stickout, at lower feed rates, and it finally sounds like sizzling bacon. My weld puddles are so much cleaner now. Thanks so much for this advice! It's funny though, at lower voltage I was getting more penetration than higher volts. I guess when you increase voltage at longer stick out you need to increase the wire feed to keep up with the heat? My spot welds fell apart at higher voltages and I'm trying to understand why.

[@victoryvisiontour]

I get a lot more weld spatter than you are getting. You get almost none. How do you do that?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Couple things to consider with spatter and flux core: 1: your machine must be DC output. Many cheap flux core machines are AC output and they weld poorly at best. 2: you must be on DCEN polarity, aka gun on negative terminal. If you weld DCEP (normal mig polarity) you will have excessive spatter 3: Use good wire. In my experience quality wire has half as much spatter. 4: your settings must be in range of what is correct. If your voltage and wire feed are too far out from what they should be you will have a ton of spatter. 5: make sure your material is prepped decent. Beyond that it could also come down to how consistent your travel speed is. If your moving too fast or too slow it could be the issue. Just as too long or too short of a stickout will affect spatter.

[@WHEREVER-I-ROAM]

The third weld that you did has a unfair advantage That METAL is (((preheated))) But one could preheat the metal and have nice welds from the start 👍🏻nice video