Malenia is The WORST Demigod - Elden Ring Lore

#malenia #eldenring #fromsoftware
i dont like her very much

[@trevinsingh9390]

I have this funny theory behind Malenia and the Griffith cosplayer that is her brother. I've noticed that all the cocoons around the tree are mostly an average NPC character size while the largest is Miquella himself. Since the haligtree greatshield said he was using his blood to water the tree, he probably instructed many of his followers to do the same. The desperation for him to beat the Elder tree made him basically stuck in a coma where we find him mostly drained of his blood at Mohg Palace. Even though many people say he was cursed to have a young body forever I think it's a lack of understanding of the condition of parasitic fetal disorder where Malenia became a beast while Mickey is childlike. The statues of them back this up as I do not see the skinny, skeleton exposed arm that we see in game.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

This is the best comment. I think you are spot on. I hadn't consider3d that possibility, even with all the info we were given. Great fucking work

[@trevinsingh9390]

@@TheHonoredMadman Thank you, np your videos are the best!!

[@gameframeinc.3389]

@@trevinsingh9390so basically the cocoon is what’s draining miquella of his blood?

[@trevinsingh9390]

@@gameframeinc.3389 Yea I would venture a guess as to this process being what the item description depict Miquella as watering the Halig tree. I'm only going by that one cutscene with Mohg literally giving him a transfusion of blood to Miquella only showing up when the player arrives. Maybe it was just a thematic choice to have Mohg do this yet the abrupt nature that the boss fight ends on, literally a clif hanger makes me think so.

[@Cha05typhoon]

In my opinion the reason that Malenia attacked Radahn wasn't arrogance or blind loyalty, it's because Miquella needed the stars to begin their movements again so he could get the eclipse needed to save his brother.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

It's interesting because his goal was to drain the moon or sun of its power to do this, which would've also put him at odds with Ranni. They were both trying to remake the world in their own way they just hadn't come into conflict yet

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@TheHonoredMadman surely the would have duked it out eventually

[@oyvindyt]

@@TheHonoredMadman it's kind of funny, she's supposed to represent stagnation but as the Blade of Miquella she's an instrument in doing the opposite?

[@scoobydoom]

Radahn was also his brother.

[@jackreacher7495]

@@TheHonoredMadman I think you could make the argument that Ranni didn't have a problem with Miquella. He, too, was trying to create a society separate from the infleunce of the Greater Will.

[@aWolffromElsewhere]

Marika pretty much encouraged her children to fight for the new age, at least that's how I interpret some of the dialogue the Malena shares with the tarnished.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

She basically said fight if you're gonna fight but don't fail because if you then you guys will be the fertilizer for the new world, I'm paraphrasing but that was my interpretation of that bit of dialogue

[@unclet9825]

I guess Malenia didnt notice the massive draft, noise or vibrations when mohg broke in, but noticed when some random schmuck walks in.

[@leadfaun]

Mohg can teleport.

[@unclet9825]

@@leadfaun True and fair, but the Man is anything but silent.

[@Impaler765]

Do you think mohg would do that while malenia is there?

[@ryguy1483]

​@@leadfaunOnly if there's blood..

[@zaubergurke5468]

my headcanon is that lord marais ran after malenia after finley left with her, but didnt actually know where to go or how to get to the haligtree, so hes just kind of walking around with his pet golem now.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

This is the most logical conclusion. And him leaving led to elemer not being executed and instead taking over most of the castle

[@Terror_Official]

Finlay's ashes say that she carried Malenia to the Haligtree alone: "Finlay was one of the few survivors of the Battle of Aeonia, who in an unimaginable act of heroism carried the slumbering demigod Malenia all the way back to the Haligtree. She managed the feat alone, fending off all manner of foes along the way."

[@TheHonoredMadman]

You right its pretty clearly stating it was just finlay. So the cleanrot knights there at shaded castle could've just been survivors that were trying to make it back to the haligtree and perhaps house Marais offered them asylum

[@jessicajones9054]

​@@TheHonoredMadman or the item narrator is unreliable?

[@Blurred__dots]

@@jessicajones9054lmao then why would they put it on the item description it wouldn’t make sense.

[@Jim-Bagel]

Could have made the stop before the battle then

[@lorddervish212quinterosara6]

"White man was here" "How you tell" "30 minutes long video essay"

[@MalikCustoms123]

Radhan is afraid of change. Malenia going after him is likely Miquella seeing him as a major threat.

[@genericgorilla]

The stars are like literally one of the most powerful things on Elden Ring because they're a direct way to control the very fate. presumably Radahn controlling the stars made the Carian royals pretty much immortal, probably why we don't kill Rennala, why Radahn isn't able to die even though he's literally rotting from the inside, and also sort of implied by Iji that the stars being halted was the reason why Sellen is trapped and wasn't outright killed. It's not that he's "afraid of change", it was one of the most decisive moves by Radahn during the shattering.

[@milokonna]

Im recently often seeing that statement that Radhan is afraid of change, but is there more to that assessment, than just him holding the stars (which could have multitude of reasons) and still riding his tiny horse? Afterall holding the stars is a change on it's own, literally changing laws of the world, besides he moved out of his home in Liurnia to live in a completely different region, which is also a change.

[@MalikCustoms123]

@@milokonna Yes, but the stars are what allows Ranni to be able to do away with the Golden Order. Radhan kept her from changing the world with her ascension by locking her from the intervention of the stars. Not only that, but because of Destined Death being removed from the Elden Ring, Leonard can't die. Radhan is torturing his horse by having it be so old and weak from the effects of the Golden Order. If the stars are unable to move, Ranni can't become the next goddess and the Golden Order can remain in power, allowing Radhan to have Leonard as his horse forever until their bodies are destroyed. He changed fate all so he can maintain the status quo.

[@milokonna]

@@MalikCustoms123 If he knew about Ranni's plans, he could do that not to prevent the change, but to stop his sister from committing a murder on their step-brother, and killing herself. As far as we know, he has a beef only with stars, not other outher gods/powers and their envoys, that are trying to overtake greater will. He never tried to find the haligtree, to take down the twins, even though they pose a danger to the golden order. Leonard was described only as scrawny, not old or sickly. Magic of the world allowed to cheat that with gravity magic, so why not? When we see him in game, he was trapped on a desert, probably afflicted with rot, for many years, so he can look like dying horse just because of that. To me informations from the game, are too open-ended, to say for sure that the exact motivation behind Radahn's actions, was the fear of change specifically.

[@rainbowkrampus]

@@milokonna Not for nothing but, you do see that this is literature right? We're not talking about the motivations of real life people. We're talking about fictional characters who adhere to and mirror thematic devices. Literature is a finite medium. You only have so much space and time to convey an idea. Radahn is the strongest of the demi gods, he has demonstrated his prowess on multiple occasions, he fears losing his horse and he fears losing some aspect of the world to the point of halting the flow of the stars. This is all we really need to make a determination about his personality here. He's not a real guy, he's a literary trope in a genre that is all about archetypal characters. We get just enough information about him to understand his motivations and place in the narrative and then we stab his legs til he dies.

[@foster2095]

excuse me um some people nuke and irradiate countries??? to cope????? check your privilege.

[@ryguy1483]

"Check your privilege" *fucking cringe*

[@Archdeacon.Krieg.]

The mechanic of she can heal by hitting a 100% physical block shield is dumb she’s not hurting you at all why is she getting health back.

[@milokonna]

My crackpot theory is that she can heal through hitting metal. She used to hit her helmet, but she gave herself a concussion, so she bonkers now.

[@pushpitkumar99]

I see Malenia as a perfect example that even good people end up doing fucked up things to achieve their goals. In Malenia's case, her scarlet aeonia completely wrecked Caelid forever. However, we can't ignore her efforts for achieving Miquella's dream who also housed the albinaurics, misbegotten, etc. So, I don't believe she is evil, but she's not a Saint either like most characters in fromsoft games. Anyway good vid HM.

[@clorkmagnus]

Nah, Malenia definitely isn’t good. She is more like the ultimate Miquella simp. It just happened that she is really strong and had a god power inside her, enough to even become a god herself. You see even when Plasidusax and the world divine serpent fell only depict them as legend aka mythical beings, similar to Astel. Prime Plasidusax is something else nobody know how strong he is and was probably a god. Only Malenia and Elden beast are called gods. In fact, the Elden beast was so strong by the lore you need to get destined death to kill it. This further supported by the Gideon saying “a man cannot defeat a god”. Also you can see the beast were wounded in the fight with you. It has a crack in the middle of the body. The god killing power was given to Malikek by Marika herself. Which indicated she used it to defeat other gods. You actually might need it to kill a god for real. Which is why you can choose to give Malenia the needle when you already defeated her. She was not dead. Cause by lore a god cannot be killed with mortal power?

[@craig-machine8137]

Before the game released I thought Malenia was so cool, but when the game actually came out I ended up gravitating towards Radahn more. She's still cool but some of the things you brought up in the video definitely had me thinking. In regards to her not seeking out Miquella, I would almost believe it's like she doesn't know how to act without his guidance, as everything we know she did in the story was due to Miquella asking her to do it (Probably). Maybe she wanted to go and find him but without the actual say so from him she had to stay put? Basically a messed up circle of logic she has herself trapped in. "Oh I better save him, oh but wait he didn't tell me to do it. Guess I'll just wait here." It would definitely take away from her cool factor, but it would make some amount of sense in a weird way. But that's just me trying to justify it.

[@raiden3013]

Tbh most of what he said wasn’t that accurate about Malenia or they are actions of other people that aren’t really Malenias fault like having people worship her that are bad like gowry. She has no control if bad people worship her

[@ThommyofThenn]

Was watching a fallout "fun fact" video but I clicked this immediately when i got notification. I like that you touched on how the smallfolk would have been affected by the whims of the demigods. Clearly pretty poorly as shown by the misbegotten servant revolt and Gostocs face stomping thing

[@tenormartin277]

I think Marika had to keep Malenia close because of the impact of her curse. Morgott and Mohg are like powerful people, but they can’t just explode and cause damage. Leaving Malenia jailed runs the risk of her detonating.

[@Lenno94]

On the Malenia didn't search for Miquella part, when we enter the boss arena she says she was sleeping and we pretty much know that Miquella's alter ego St. Trina operates in the dream world. Maybe there's other unknown stuff happening in the dream world, at the very least we know that St. Trina has kind of disappeared. Also, Miquella probably told Malenia to kill Radahn so that the stars could move again, allowing Miquella to execute the eclipse ritual. Fun fact : Marais means swamp in french.

[@kevinclement1533]

I personally don't understand why many people think that Malenia is the worst demigod while the likes of Mohg, Godrick and Rykard exists. Imho many people are just salty that she's a difficult boss fight and that she gave Radahn, a fan favourite, a scarlet rot.

[@ryguy1483]

Lol and I feel like people give Malenia a pass, is because she's "hot." Don't act like that doesn't sway young guys haha. Don't you dare, or I can't take the argument seriously.

[@korstmahler]

The recycling and rot was something to do with Miquella too. Early content (might have been japanese only? I can't recall.) sort of indicates that Miquella was accepting of all life, including his sister's rot and it's creatures. He made the needle and didn't finish it, after all. In game as it is today, his revelation and change in goal isn't really showed off much, but his departure from the golden order and into the search for unalloyed gold, devoid of the alchemical control of the outer gods. There I go bringing alchemy back into it.

[@lexmortis5722]

Uses dex build with a katana, loses, uses rot, loses so hard its a coma. Lies about not losing, she lost twice to the guy who scourers the wastes of Cailid for over 1thousand years while constantly being rotted, feasting on her (and his) soldiers. Sleeps for hundreds of years, letting her subjects be abducted and slaughtered by her stepbrother and Gideon, tortured by Rykard, arguably a loss in matters of reign. Abandons life of divine origin that she created. Sleeps instead of searching for her brother (at least in the real world, Malenia Phantom as Boss in the DLC trying to follow Miquella?). Does not clean her room. She is by far the worst demigod of them all and that is considering Godrick and Mogh.

[@Gvjrapiro]

Objectively speaking, she didn't lie about losing. The result of the battle was pretty detrimental to both sides, and we're explicitly told in game from the caelid sword memorial that they were locked in a stalemate before the bloom as well.

[@macandcheeseofficial]

I think she attacked Radahn in search of Miquella, because Mohg kidnapped him and brought him to his palace. His palace is located directly under where Malenia and Radahn fought. She probably though Radahn was the one who took him and if you use the map, Miquella is directly under the Scarlet Aeonia and when you first enter Mohgwyn’s arena, Miquella is reaching up to the sky, perhaps reaching towards Malenia to be saved.

[@Vislow]

Wasn't miquella taken while she was fighting radahn

[@chrisp.9380]

@@Vislow Most likely, yes. There's really know other time that we're aware of where Miquella would have been left unguarded.

[@ryguy1483]

I don't agree with that, because they'd definitely talk it out lol. I refuse to believe a continent was nuked due to a misunderstanding. Especially when it's the classic "just talk it out" trope lol.

[@daveb305]

But she’s mommy!

[@Tengu125]

The bit about Godrick reminds me; Godrick's end is basically the opposite of Morgott's. While Morgott's body is held by his proud father, Godrick's has its face stomped on by a disgruntled ex-servant in disgust. One was a relatively gracious and worthy ruler, loyal and dedicated to his people (despite knowing that they would likely shun him if they knew he was an Omen), to the point of secretly entering the battlefield to fight for them (meaning he would never recieve any praise for the act), and the other is an insecure, neglectful coward, who abandoned his castle in the guise of a woman as it was sieged to save his own hide. Of course, one wielded great power and the other was basically an inbred weakling, but the ruler of a realm should still never jump ship, sacrificing all of their subjects in a bid to save themselves. The fact that not all of his servants died is irrelevant, as there's no way he predicted that, or he wouldn't have fled to begin with.

[@facundovera3227]

Kenneth Haight said Godrick fled the Capitol in disguise, and hid from Radahn in Stormveil - probably - we can see the outer wall with many meteor impacts. Someone should check out the original japanese, because I remember that one hour long Bloodborne video saying almost every lore bit was traduced backwards lol.

[@Blacksadify]

Yes, she's bad. She used that world's equivalent of a Nuke when she couldn't defeat Radahn on her own merits and skill, and then used it again when she couldn't defeat the player's character. Her Scarlet Bloom decimated Caelid and all of the people in it.

[@clorkmagnus]

You the player went ballistic and head hunting everyone and literally invaded her chamber lol. The player by lore has unknown moral value. You see how many people chose Ranni the neutral ending stripping the gods from humanity which possibly lead to many dead and chaos or the chaos ending? And the nuke she did technically was her power, her ultimate trump card. You may argue it’s the god power inside her but you also need to remember she was born with it and chosen by the god, you will never see a healthy Malenia. Her great rune is healing. It’s probably why she was the only one bear the rot god power. Everyone else probably would have die. All the great runes are somewhat tie to their owners power. Most of the gods and the Demi gods don’t really care about Mortal. Marika, the mother of the Demi gods literally waged a world war.

[@gurnoorsekhon6402]

Bruh she bloomed because she took a lot of damage, there's no evidence to say that she used it voluntarily especially if you remember that rot is more deadly to herself than even radahn. We see radahn destroy her arm so it's highly likely he accidentally destroyed the needle too.

[@gabriellecollier8127]

Malenia was an Empyrean, while Morgott and Mohg were mere demigods. She was chosen by the Greater Will, so Marika couldn't just kill her or depose of her in a sewer.

[@ryguy1483]

Why not? Glum Eye Queen, anyone?

[@kalzero3319]

Haven't tuned in for a little while but I'm glad you're doing Elden Ring lore videos again. Youre unique style of narration is relaxing to listen too. Cheers!

[@kalzero3319]

Also its likely Malenia marched on Caelid and took on Rahdan at the request if Miquella. The reasoning that seems to fit imo is that Rahdan's hold on the stars had to be stopped. He was holding back fate and very likely this "arresting of the stars" was also effecting the moon as well. The very same moon Miquella needed for the eclipse/Haligtree ritual to help Godwyn.

[@Spooder-king]

Wish we got to see the haligtree in its full glory before being ruined by malenia I’d imagine it would start to glow slightly like the erdtree

[@carsonnesbit1178]

I don't think that's the case for a very specific reason, the Erdtree shines with the stolen radiance of the sun, hence why the sun is "drained of color" in ER. Big clue that hints towards this is the sunflower item description. We know that the Sun is the god that placidusax likely served, as we find sun realm shields in Faram Azula and there is a giant sun behind him in his arena. Anyways the tarnished sunflower description says something along the lines of "grows facing the erdtree" and then says "though wilted and faded, it still retains holy essence" that last description is interesting as it applies to the sun itself. we know that the sun is currently "drained of its color" so the fact that the sunflowers grow facing the erdtree is rather interesting. Anyways, my point is that the haligtree doesnt shine the way the erdtree does since the erdtree stole the suns radiance, maybe thats what miqeuellas plan though. Maybe "swallowing the sun" meant that miquella would steal the remainder of its power and infuse it into his own Haligtree.

[@jakeeis2923]

I just saw a comparison between the scarlet rot bug things and the clean rot knights. I’m pretty sure they’re slowly turning into the bugs

[@doomduck9073]

I am going to extend an olive branch, what if queen Marika really wanted a daughter? I thought of this after you mentioned the difference between Marika's omen children, and Marika's afflicted children, what if Malenia and Ranni were two she sought to have replace her, but Malenia was afflicted, and then Ranni took part in killing Godwyn the Golden, and maybe that just pushed her to shatter the elden ring?

[@Sinhsseax]

That is an interesting direction you are going in there. That way, Marikas intentions really would be to be free of the Elden Ring herself, instead of it being a grand ideological reasoning. So she maybe could not bear being an instrument of the greater will in this way anymore and snapped after no end was in sight. Even if this is just about Empyreans replacing her, Miquella is also defective. What made you consider that she specifically wanted a daughter for this?

[@doomduck9073]

​@@Sinhsseax I just think its very reminiscent of George R R Martin's writing for parental figures to have intended futures for their children. But the thought came to mind after Madman said Marika was an awful person, and also I was wrong when I said Godwyn's death pushed her because Godwyn's death was just the catalyst (according to Rogier) and the actual shattering happened after the children of Marika claimed the shards and started to do stuff that then triggered the shattering and the war that followed. Honestly, I'm doubting my own olive branch about Marika wanting a daughter, there are not enough details required to figure that. There is also the fact that of Marika's children, Ranni, Miquella, and Malenia were Empyrean's (The gloam eyed queen and Marika were also Empyrean) so it more likely to have been that factor that decided it. As an empyrean is the one to become the vessel for the Elden Ring. In regards to what made her shatter the Elden ring, I think you may be right in the notion that she snapped and could no longer take it. Ranni hated the two fingers which meant she was definitely not becoming a vessel for the greater will. Malenia was afflicted by a different outer god entirely. Miquella, I am unsure, I assume there is an outer god afflicting him as well, however he stopped believing in the Golden Order once he knew it wasn't going to help Malenia. I am unsure of who or where the Gloam Eyed Queen was at this time, but if this is Melina, it seems like Melina had a different role/purpose as they are the kindling maiden. Now I wonder if this would have resulted in Marika either needing more children, or if that was no longer possible just giving up entirely and breaking the elden ring. There is also the fact there are eight KNOWN children of Marika, and on the Elden thrones in both Leyndell and in Stormveil, a genealogy tree depicts eight figures on the tree (I counted eight, if I counted wrong please let me know), while at the top is queen Marika's bed chamber. It's all very very interesting to ponder about

[@mariomolina7252]

"I don't know if that's what really happened it's been a long time since I've seen 300" best quote

[@Gleebful]

Fromsoft does a lot of things great in their games, but one thing that I wish they had were more NPC villages or even cities in game. I know they're limited tech wise which is why we never see a From game that isn't postapocalyptic, but it would really improve their games' immersion. IG the best example they have in previous titles is Majula (which is why its the best hub), but even then their games lack the realness factor of a lived in world like Elder Scrolls games or even Red Dead.

[@idirbouchdoug1567]

not the same type of game. elden ring and most fromsoft games are supposed to feel somewhat lonebly and dark fantasy. that's their thing .

[@Cman04092]

I mean, maybe a few more NPCs in certain places would be nice, but overall I think it's fine how it is. Big cities or towns full of people like Skyrim or Red Dead would kind of ruin the dark fantasy atmosphere they're going for anyways. Towns full of people just doesn't really fit in Elden Ring IMO, but I wouldn't mind 2 or 3 more NPC at the Roundtable, maybe another NPC or 2 in Raya Lucaria or something, or maybe a random camp with like 3 people just trying to surive, although this being Fromsoft they'd probably end up dead anyways. Plus we do kind of have a little bit of what your talking about with Jarberg, it's just they don't really do much, lol. But that fits for Jarberg, they're just trying to survive, and do their own thing, so it not suprising they'res not much going on there.

[@ryguy1483]

Nothing that they can't just update their engine on. With modern hardware ever evolving, there is no reason to do pretty much anything in games. It's just a matter if the developer wants to devote 1-2 years overhauling their engine for the longterm, like the RE Engine

[@Kaucukovnik666]

The earlier games took place in particularly dark and troubled corners of their worlds. You could feel motivated to save the rest of the world from the horrors. There was a larger humanity to assume to be fighting for. Since they switched to entire worlds explicitly being in ruins, there is nothing to fight for in the grand scheme of things. On top of that epic stories are hard to tell with From's brand of dark minimalism, because the interactions available to the player never come close to events from the lore. You are late. You hear about these epic heroes clashing in wars between kingdoms, now go kill zombified shadows of their past glory, in dead ashes of said kingdoms. Your explicitly stated objective is to conquer the throne of a dying world. Everyone is dead or suffering endlessly. No one even expects the possibility of a positive ending, because these games have a reputation to uphold. The only surprise now would be things not turning to shit, but that's verboten. I recall Miyazaki wanting to have a positive NPC quest resolution in Bloodborne and Sony said no, that's not what we are paying you for. It's like with the psychology in Silent Hill 2, it was brilliant because you didn't expect it. And it was such a hit it made surprising psychological twists in a horror game pretty much impossible. It's considered bad manners not to have one. In Dark Souls you could easily link the fire 100% convinced that you have saved the world. But the dark twist became so famous it's now the baseline. Savior hero trope is dead, long live the unbreakable cycle of hopelessness trope! FromSoft's trademark is misery porn. When they try to stray from it, they get polite praise and lukewarm sales. I guess it's an all right badass themed backdrop for a gaming skill challenge, if that's what these games are to you. On the other hand it's probably the best lore friendly reasoning for the RPG murderhobo protagonist trope. You don't have to feel bad for being one in these games. What does it matter who you kill or what you ruin, it's all shit already anyways!

[@VenomousTeddy]

Hell yeah, Brother

[@lute6904]

Really interesting speculation on the shaded castle’s story, I think your pretty spot on. Love the aesthetic of that area how it’s been taken over by escaped prisoners

[@evronian1129]

Maybe miquella sent melania to Calied because of the Dragon heart farming. Maybe miquella had some sort of a connection to the dragons or just wanted them to join Epheal and that's why he deployed his sister to go essentially free the dragons.

[@sk8legendz]

definitely a sketchy sort. I never liked her just because she nuked Caelid. I always wonder how the region would've been without the Rot. Looking forward to the Ranni video.

[@kristophercote4423]

I think her bloom was very intentional, she snapped the unalloyed gold needle that was in her body that was holding back the scarlet rot, I suppose maybe it could have broken during her battle with radahn but I believe she did it as a cop out

[@rainbowkrampus]

Shaded Castle sits in between all of the major powers in Elden Ring. There's good evidence that Godfrey hails from the area and is in fact the founder of House Marais. The fact that there is a poison swamp there rather than a scarlet rot swamp speaks to the idea that Malenia wasn't there for long if she was there at all. The poison swamp is more likely a result of Mt. Gelmir erupting at some point and pushing up toxic chemicals as the underlying magma structure was altered. Or else toxic chemicals settled down in that valley. Either or. The obsession with Malenia by Marais probably has a lot to do with the perception of Malenia at the time when she was active. House Marais probably fell into decline after Godfrey and the tarnished were kicked out of the lands between. With the Elden Lord banished and no longer representing them, they needed another way to grow their power. People probably thought that she was the most likely person to replace Marika as a new god. If Marais could marry Malenia, he would gain immense power. Marais develops an obsession, collecting artifacts of Malenia, commissioning statues. Maybe this was a Miquella induced obsession? I dunno. Point being, sometime shortly after that Gelmir erupts and functionally destroys Shaded Castle and any hope that Marais has of ever becoming a dominant power in the Land's Between. In among the confusion and death comes Elemer, once imprisoned in Caelid, seeking revenge on Godfrey and House Marais for the destruction of his homeland and the theft of his familial sword. But of course, Godfrey is gone, Marais is fled and Shaded Castle is in ruins. But he finds the icons of Malenia and discovers a new prospect for revitalizing his own shattered kingdom. But before anything comes of that we come along and kill him. So why are there cleanrots there? We only find them in the keep. We find one coming out of the elevator leading to the dining hall where Elemer waits. Did they not care about his rampage through the castle? Was Elemer just a charming conversationalist? I'd say that they were there as envoys. Possibly stragglers of Malenias army, possibly sent there on explicit orders. Either way, I think Elemer was in talks with the cleanrots. But the cleanrots found themselves stuck when the Rold lift was disabled. So they've just been chilling there ever since. Elemer preparing for his revenge against Godfrey and the cleanrots just kinda... rotting?

[@korstmahler]

Interestingly the DS3 Abyss Watchers are worshippers of the Chosen Undead (we the players) from DaS1 but much like Dusk they think the abysswalker succeeded. Artorias was just a well meaning knight of Gywn that messed up badly and whom history was exceedingly kind to, thanks to us.

[@TTVBunnyDougie]

I love your monotone style and humor.. As soon as I heard you refer to Miquella as little and frail I lost my fuckin' shit lol.. I'd kill to game with you and shoot the shit about lore sometime. Cheers bruv.

[@mannytprimeministerofthemanate]

I think he’s being unfair here. Yes malenia has done some objectively bad things like nuking caelid and spareing godrick. But the state of the haligtree, the shaded castle and the rot cult aren’t her fault, more so a by product of the scarlet rot inside her. Blaming her for that, when she had no control over any of that, would be like blaming her for existing since the only way she could have stop that would be by not being alive. Also his point on malenia abandoning Miquella are just not true. When we first enter her fight she mentions how she’s been dreaming for a long time. Implying she has been unconscious/sleep for a long time. Probably since her fight with Radhan. It was also most likely during her time unconscious that the haligtree started to rot. The golden needle that had been holding back the rot had been removed and left in caelid.

[@CorpseTornado]

She didn't look for Miquella because she needed her pride back, the golden needle questline. The twins are like the yin-yang koi fish, always circling, never combining. He needed her to fight for him, and she needed him to think for her. As in he failed due to Mohg, he couldn't fight, he needed his other half. She couldn't deal with the rot without her needle, which she intentionally broke while fighting Radahn (wrong choices), and afterwards needed the needle fixed or replaced, which only her other half can do. They split in the womb back to red and silver, the union failed because Queen Marika and RedHairMan#2 wasn't the correct formula. Miquella's Silver and Godwyn's Gold however... I think Godwyn's heart (Gold) and Miquella's soul (Silver) (Gen2Pokemon!) is what Marika wants to try. Right because the red hair, the curse, went to Malenia from her dad, Radagon. So Marika thought that on the Eclipse she could sacrifice her other children to put Miquella's soul into Godwyn's body. Ranni fucked this up, which is why Marika's assassins are after her. And now Miquella wants his brother to "please die a true death..." so I can use you for the ritual. Marika has clogged up the soul wheel to turn everyone into either soldiers or fodder for the sacrifice. Thankfully you can: Go to Caelid and get the Berserk sword. Then realize that this guy who everyone loves is actually a villain who wants to control spiritual trees to bring himself armies consisting of all the neglected races of the world. We're getting Berserked. Great insight on the travels of Finlay, I never thought of that. And great video as always.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

I like this interpretation. Great write up. I have considered that millicent was literally malenias humanity that was lost and harvested by gowry, it'd one of the things I've spent the most time theorizing on is the rot fellas

[@YungTigris]

I love that you take a massive rip for these videos. but another note, your narration/speaking on video has become a lot more smooth/relaxed in the past months of content creation!

[@ZeroOmega-vg8nq]

To be fair you shouldnt hate artorias. The dude didnt even WANT to take your credit. You should hate the shroom elizabeth for flat out lying to the world

[@slimefish5142]

I feel like the fight between malenia and radahn is more of her acting as "the blade of Miquella" than her getting cocky after beating godrick I feel like her whole deal is just in general serving Miquella, also I think Miquella planned the stealing of themselves is a potential thing, one of Miquellas main traits is using other people's obsession with them to their own advantage which seems like it would be something big but doesn't really come into play in confirmed cannon I think

[@slimefish5142]

I feel like malenia wouldn't have been wouldn't have had as much failings in life if she wasn't a victim of circumstance, if she wasn't the blade of Miquella and if she wasn't the vessel of scarlet rot I feel like things would've been way different. Her biggest mistake that I personally feel like she directly caused was sparing godrick

[@ryanrochon8891]

im commenting before i watch the video, but i know this is gonna be a tough watch lol. malenia is definitely one of my favorite characters in the game, and you're definitely my favorite elden ring youtuber. all the best tho, no doubt it'll be as good as all of your other videos👍

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Titles sort of clickbaity tongue in cheek. it's just about the effects of her actions.

[@ThommyofThenn]

Bro I have a bad habit of doing that and doing a adversarial take and then looking like a prick when the video addresses the exact thing i was commenting about

[@7F0X7]

She's a stupid character. You should have had the option to actually talk to her and maybe even help her get Miquella back after you defeat Mogh. And you should have had the choice to betray her if you wanted to kill her for her weapon/incant/rune.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

My thoughts exactly

[@niklaspeter2568]

What's interesting is that malenia rejected the rot cult followers. I think that she had a vague idea of the consequences of the rot nuke and that she was so devoted to miquellas cause that she was willing to use the rot if necessary. As for why she is found waiting for miquella to return, I think she may have been searching for him but couldn't find him and eventually gave up. So in her hope that he might still be alive she decided to wait for him at the haligtree. Alternatively she may have been sleeping until the tarnished came in. To me it makes sense that malenia wasn't locked away. Her power was way too great and dangerous to give her a reason to turn against the golden order. Instead marika had malenia be trained by the blind swordsman to control the rot. Her quote to have never known defeat, to me sounds more like self assuring that beeing pushed to use the scale bloom was not a loss. Which millicent confirms that malenia very much does. All in all I think malenia is a morally almost neutral character. Her worst trait I think is her blind loyalty to her brother.

[@Lucious_Skywalker]

I'm just here for the bong rips and the Samurai Champloo clips

[@BiggieCrescent]

Bro took the fattest sip of all time before continuing the video

[@tylerswygert1661]

Tbf too Malenia on the topic of Marika, Morgott and Mogh also were not Empyreans like Ranni, Malenia, and Miquella

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Oh I know, I thought I mentioned that, but maybe I should've been a bit clearer, i do that alot haha, I only compared miquella and malenia to mohg and morgott because they were both sets of twins that were born with imperfections, or afflictions, curses, if you will, mohg and morgott with the crucible omen horns, and miguella being stuck as a kid and malenia being born with Da Rot

[@facundovera3227]

Also gameplay reasons, the spirit Malenias thrusting attacks can go rot in whatever afterlife there is.

[@FumblsTheSniper]

I get the feeling all the gods, if not pretty much everyone in the world, we’re sneering jerks that wished they had longer noses to look down.

[@bingusmingus2937]

30+ minutes of Malenia slander

[@Sunnyfunny0707]

There is a theory that she attacked raddan was because she could sense her brother and mohg is right under raddan so she thought he took him and she would not have known about mohg place cause even gideon did not know where mohg was.

[@Cman04092]

I'm not sure why so many people simp for Radhan and say "he was the only good one. He did nothing wrong. Melania had no reason to fight him. Blahdy blahdy blah blah *insert more BS here*" Radhan is not a good guy. He started a war to try and take lyndell for starters. He also used his gravity magic to screw up the stars. This started issues on two fronts. It screwed over his own sister, Ranni, by blocking her fate or whatever. It also screwed over Miquella, and also Godwyn by proxy, and everyone else counting on Miquella and the Haligtree. Miquella needed the Eclipse, but Radhan is why it didn't happen. That's why the people at castle Sol think they failed and didn't pray hard enough, but it was radhan fault all along, because the SUN is a STAR! and if you stop the stars, you stop the eclipse! That is probably Melania went for home. Its the only thing that makes sense because Melania and Miquella weren't after runes or power. If they wanted runes or power, she wouldn't have let godrick live, she would have killed him and taken anything she could have, including his rune. Plus she probably would have gone for Morgott over Radhan if she only wanted power. She had a purpose in going for Radhan, who might i also remind you was the furthest away from the Haligtree. I mean, not 100% of this is stated outright, but its all there plain as day if you connect the dots we do have. Radhan fucked around and found out. I'm glad that giant jackass got his brain melted by rot. He got what he deserved. I feel bad for his horse though, the poor thing. But yeah Radhan is my 3rd most hated demigod, behind child moghlester at #2, and Godrick at #1.

[@roud4754]

Agree he is a total BS game and lore wise. Even he Lear gravity for his horse. What a stupid reason. And hold the stars so his city wouldnt be destroyed. He is the worst boss in the lore and ofcourse in game he is a mindless dog and your mission is to put him out of his misery.

[@RichardKushman]

I honestly take the bloom outside of her room as indicating that she had to bloom a second time to defeat her teacher who would've come to kill her to prevent the rot god from returning. I mean if anyone other than rahdan or us would be capable of pushing her to bloom it'd be the guy that put the og rot god down. Plus she becomes malenia goddess of rot in her second phase so lore wise that'd mean she'd have to have bloomed a second time earlier before us. That and I believe the envoys are there to welcome in her era since she turns into a literal god in your fight against her and she most likely canonically walks out of that fight as a god having killed us and her brother is nowhere near the tree so they can't be there to herald in his age since he's in his older half bros special dungeon for happy fun time if you catch my meaning

[@ThommyofThenn]

Canonically i got up in that ass and only a beautiful flower stands as a macabre testament to the ultimate decay of Rot

[@RichardKushman]

How many bodies of your tarnish did she stack before you got her one time though through both phases?

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@RichardKushman that raises a good question about the canonicity of all your deaths. Correct, you are unable to die as a tarnish and seemingly reconstitute at a PoG sometime later. If you are unable to die, does your body stack? I know it's ultimately a game mechanic but I'm interested to see if someone can explain it more.

[@RichardKushman]

@@ThommyofThenn given that lore wise you seem to reconstitute this does seem to fall into one of those "hey wait a minute" things, like malketh using destined death to likely kill the player at least once in his second phase we are still able to immediately spawn back in and rechallenge him as well as reset him and anyother boss with a transformative second phase but my real point is she's likely got something like a 70% success rate of defeating the tarnished in a playthrough at some point between both of her phases

[@purehollow]

@@RichardKushman this sounds similar to a theory I heard about sekiro , it state that any death in bossfight that start with a cutscene isn't canon like isshin the sword saint you are supposed to die permanently by his mortal blade and yet you come back and restart from the cutscene as if nothing happened It might be similar in elden ring except it only applies to second phase of bosses that means any death in the second phase isn't canon like malaketh or malania that's why the cutscene always play every time you reach the second phase unlike the first phase

[@alastor8091]

6:25 what do you think would happen if you tried to smoke Scarlet Rot Bud?

[@elite_bystander_6073]

The bong rip got me 💀💀💀

[@nathreetimesnineequalstwen7172]

I've watched a few of the videos on your channel. I just want to say it's all very nice. Unique, but valid takes/side takes opening one's perspective on A or B. While not being an hour long video of pure speculation based on 1 random line of text found on 1 random item. Lol Nice channel. 👍

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Thanks man I appreciate that

[@blargminton]

i think malenia wanted to challenge morgott at the capital but saw radahn as an obstacle and so attacked him first. in addition i think radahn held back from rematching morgott because he wanted to get malenia out of the way first. ironically morgott got rather lucky with them destroying each other so he was free to do whatever he wanted until he was humbled by volcano manor

[@hildaibuyan4161]

Lore-wise, she has the best win rate among the Demigods

[@nemesisundead83]

The twins were saved most likely because they were chosen to be Emperian at birth I'm thinking that two fingers show up or are created from nothing marking them as Emperian just my guess cause you see what happens to the Omens horns removed and buried under the Erdtree but I bet if a two fingers would have shown up that omen wouldn't be buried under the city probably would have been praised to be the next Elden lord

[@coreyjasper8329]

I love the bong rip in the beginning 😂😂

[@LocksAndChains]

I understood your Vong reference.

[@pastorofmuppets4552]

Malenia ain’t bad, but she bad 😏

[@Haveldorf]

Chillin', stoned out my mind at a family party with my betrothed, thank you Honoured Madman, you are a saint. ❤

[@MemoriesLP]

Do you think Castle Sol can be one of the main reasons why Malenia went after Radahn? She wanted the stars back for the Castle

[@alastor8091]

4:20 I'm pretty sure all the Sword Graves mark a site of battle.

[@OlExtraRegularBass]

What do you mean Radahn wasn't doing anything?? He was stopping the damn Eclipse!

[@Terminalsanity]

I think the reason why Malenia isn't out looking for Miquella is the same reason none of the Halitree forces were out looking for Miquella: Mogh didn't take Miquella by force Miquella sought out his aid when Miquella's plan with the Haligtree fell through like how his plan with the eclipse failed. I mean we're told that the Haligtree was to be a safe haven for the Albanaurics but when we get there, there are none to be found (save for Latena maybe) but you find plenty of 2nd Generation Albanaurics hanging around Mohg's place.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Wording is always interesting and I always found it odd that there were only albinaurics in the snowfield both first and second gen but then it donned on me, Loretta description calls it the land of the haligtree so maybe it just meant the snowfield. I don't think miquella went with mohg of his own free will. There's basically nothing to suggest that and I know I like to have wild theories from time to time, I don't see miquella as being willing to submit to the formless mother when he was tryna do his own thing with the haligtree, but that's just my opinion I honestly love all theories and interpretations of this stuff because we have no definitive answers

[@Terminalsanity]

@@TheHonoredMadman I'm honored by the reply. I can't say that I have proof of my theory it just explains and fits many of the little details we're presented with, like how none of Miquella's forces are out looking for him, how there seems to be no signs of a fight at the Haligtree where he was taken why many of the young Albanaurics are working with/for Mogh now, you even have a ghost of a noble bemoaning near the teleporter to Mogh's strong hold that Mogh has Miquella but no else seems to be trying to get him back. I just look at it this way Miquella had his plan with the eclipse fall through and then his sworn sword and champion Malenia seemingly gives in the Rot Goddess and blooms possibly dying as far as he knows definitely much closer to be claimed by the Goddess and maybe it was starting to look like the Haligtree was never going to reach maturity just like Miquella himself. In such a desperate hour I can see Miquella reaching out to Mogh to make some semblance of his vision (interesting that burning beast blood cures scarlet rot no?)to come to fruition even if it means resorting to the formless mother and putting up with Mogh's unwanted affections which he will never return. What can I say I get of lot of Griffith from Berserk vibes and that's totally a Griffith move. Let's just say if we get Miquella DLC where he emerges from his cocoon I won't be too surprised if he looks a moth/butterfly themed version of Fempto.

[@sierrajimi3849]

i think malenia didnt kill godrick becuase he was still a normal human at that point, if i remember correctly on the sword memorial they call him godrick the golden not the grafted so because of malenias ego and arrogance she probably though what this poor human gonna do as a lord and left him alive ignoring that later all of limgrave will be terrified because of grafting

[@Dsmooth753youtube]

Shes a fake tough guy

[@Picolas--Cage]

I dont think Malenia "took the easy way out" by sleeping. I think she's looking for him. Her dialogue says "I have dreamt for so long" and St. Trina's Torch is definitely talking about Miquella. I think shes trying to contact him in the dream world. The dream world could also be the same as the land of the dead. Might be where DLC takes place, a lot of cultures mythilogy and folklore depicts the afterlife as fields.

[@jake212]

Gowry is interesting. I assume these are just normal pest taking on the form of a dead person in order to facilitate the 3 blooms. This kind of comes from seeing the three fingers and Shabriri + Hyetta. Irina is found at the entrance to the weeping peninsula. Only after her death does Hyetta spawn. Same thing can be said about Shabriri. He only spawns after Yura would have died taking his form, the same with Irina -> Hyetta. It seems like Shabriri being a higher level servant or Vassal of an outer god can take on the form of dead people, using their likeness and flesh. I wonder if we could extend this power to other outer gods? If so the outer god of rot might be able to bestow this onto a pest to play the part as Gowry. The question becomes whos form is the pest using? It could be a random sage of Sellia or it could be the form of the blind swordsman. I only include the blind swordsman as an option because using the form of the guy who locked you away seems ironic enough for an outer god to do. This could also be Melinas connection to the gloom eyed queen. She seems to have died before meeting us or can only appear at sights of grace (or near the erdtree since she can be summoned for the Morgott fight.) + Her burn marks. Concerning Melina this is more something I've just thought about, the rest with Shabriri ability to take the form of Irina (Hyetta) and Yura connecting to how the pest can take on the form of Gowry is still a out there theory but I've thought about it more.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Gowry also has a pretty intimate knowledge of Sellia so I think if there is a collector general style pest in service to the rot god that can assume control of pests and glamor themselves with gowrys Visage that it also knows the knowledge of who it disguises itself as? Or it did it'd homework on sellia to help better sell the gowry ruse

[@jake212]

@@TheHonoredMadman I guess it depends on the timeline on when Caelid got virus bombed. It would make sense that they had an intimate knowledge of Sellia but we don't see an example of another body snatcher gaining the knowledge of the body it snatches, and given they are pest (like roaches able to get into every nook and cranny) I lean towards that they've been there long enough to do their homework. It's probably why there's two night maidens there protecting the lusat staff.

[@ty-xq7bl]

gostoc cut dialogue implies he was related to godrick might be even his son. edit: That outro tho DOPE

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Haha yeah and I think he even has yellow eyes? I mentioned it in a video tho I think it's safe to say he's godricks bastard

[@GoldenXShark22]

is there anything to suggest miquella was taken before melania marched out of the halig tree? and the whole campaign was combing the lands between to find him? I never could get a bead on it, but mohg's dynasty Palace being literally under caelid is a bit suspicious. but not sure what to take from that. I find either equally convincing.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

That's something I should have mentioned. But I can't find out when he was taken

[@SentoB]

... there's always a delay, but you've got fans now. Just go at your pace or set a schedule if it flows with you

[@BigboiiTone]

It would be cool if someone with a knowledge of clockwork or intricate machinery in general, was to discuss how a prosthetic arm of this nature might actually work. (Sekiro included but his is obviously far more complex/fantastical) What kind of design and materials would enable such a feat?

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Reminds me of Dwarven automatons from morrowind

[@fishnutz5196]

Would just like to mention that the Radahn that lost to Morgott is clearly alot younger and smaller than when he faced Malenia

[@ThommyofThenn]

I wonder what Caelid was like before Maleniapocolypse End of video edit: interesting take on Artorias. I don't think he was really a fucker but he was unprepared for that level of Darkness. Maybe he had no choice but to go when he did? It seemed to me like he was a chill dude who was doing what he thought was needed to save his world/friends. But maybe he was just being a dick and doing a whole "hold my bong" thing and leapt into the Abyss to impress the squad and ended up screwing his awesome wolf over.

[@smokinbonez420]

with the amount of scarlet swamps and how many trees have been corrupted by mushrooms, it would probably have been much like a smaller liurnia

[@TheHonoredMadman]

@@smokinbonez420 yeah i agree i think it looked like dementia from the shivering isles

[@TheHonoredMadman]

@Jarrod Terrington so it looked like morrowind then is my new headcanon for caelid

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@TheHonoredMadman dude I was just watching a video about that dlc and little dialogue snippets you could get if you did certain things

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@jarrodterrington4364 great take. Totally didn't realise until now that cutscene is obviously before the blooming rot and it is totally a desert. also I don't think there's any rot blossoms in Wailing duness or whatever Rhadans arena is called. Perhaps this arena is the last "original" bit of Caelid. Sorry, I'm not currently able to play it for myself

[@staomruel]

Praise the tree!

[@Dsmooth753youtube]

I will forever hate hate malenia she is responsible for so many horrible atrocities in the lore

[@jamescannon4186]

Missed your narration my guy, glad you’re back. Also, I see you enjoy blowing bubbles too as was apparent at the start of your video. Truly, a man of culture. 🤌🏻

[@foster2095]

DS2 does weapon variety / build the best, bloodborne best overall weapon set

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Agreed. I think ds2 had the best armor too

[@83aber1]

When you beat Malenia... Malenia: I met my match. You: Damn right you met your match.

[@fleetstreet11]

Never the worst.

[@minespatch]

Sent the video to a friend, she thinks the title is clickbait. Just wanted to let you know, even though the thumbnail says otherwise.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Yeah it was meant as sort of tongue in cheek but I may change it

[@minespatch]

@@TheHonoredMadman Sorry about this. You put a ton of effort in your video. She doesn't go out of her way for these things, just posted the link to tell her what I was watching.

[@robertwest1062]

Peak Nom Anor would be Traitor, just could not hold a candle to bird person with middle of the road moral alignment

[@TheHonoredMadman]

yeah nom anor was a bad comparison i was abit stoned i just meant that he was behind the scenes sowing discord and strengthening his cause with the pests mining and fortifying positions in certain ruins and holy sites

[@robertwest1062]

@@TheHonoredMadman nah man it was a good comparison and a hell of a reference

[@killervic7379]

Great work man

[@aicantdance]

he's back!

[@topcat59]

Must likely malenia and her men didn’t stay at her estate that long due to the rot seeping out of her and a few of them must likely stayed to protect what they could before eventually they fail to the rot.🤔🐱

[@TheHonoredMadman]

yeah i think youre right. they probably only stuck around for a few days and left a handful of the cleanrot knights behind so they could make the journey faster

[@cross-eyedhollow]

I will not stand for this Malenia slander! 😤 P.S. Still love your vids Madman.

[@BetarayBillLover]

Great video man

[@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290]

Alright, but more importantly: what does the Haligtree smell like? I assume it smells like a bloated corpse. Maybe a bit more damp, with a bit of wet dog sprinkled in.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Oh man.

[@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290]

@@TheHonoredMadman too much? Who knows, might smell like lavender, but I doubt it.

[@ethanpaul4170]

Bong hit intro lmao

[@DeepRest420]

I think the DLC made her way worse. Now we know why she attacked Radahn and yet again she was just doing it for Miquella. I feel like for such a "badass" Malenia had no agency and just did what others told her to. Makes her more boring imo.

[@goroakechi6126]

She was a slave to Miquella. From the most beloved, to a tool to be used and abandoned

[@yfullman]

Was that a Yuuzhan Vong reference?

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Yeah I'm a bit spotty when it comes to the exact lore but I was a big fan of that big of the EU

[@spencerjohnston5969]

B rip heard opinion respected

[@wolvenedvard3049]

Answer to the question is “no” imo. I will gladly watch the video, but tomorrow. Happy Christmas’ eve. I just hate that Malenia has her own rules with stability breaking and hyperarmour. She’s a difficult boss just because of that and Waterfowl Dance…

[@joebob327]

That fire emblem music tho 😤 which track is it tho I can't remember

[@TheHonoredMadman]

puzzling truth from path of radiance

[@joebob327]

@@TheHonoredMadman great taste 👌

[@nuada1470]

The watchdogs are cool though

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Cool design. Ridiculously goofy animations

[@benwil6048]

I love the lake of rot, let rot take the world!