Man of Steel - Atop the Fourth Wall

[@CaptainAvenger1993]

Missed opportunity joke for Man of Steel Jonathan Kent: “Clark the kids on the bus are over there and over there needs to take care of itself”.

[@ProfessorChaos56]

While that is one of my least favorite of his running jokes, that one is pretty good.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

We should see that lack of the joke as a testament on how much Linkara LOATHES this film.

[@Mr.Nyongo]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@SpawnRevenge92]

Jonathan Kent was also over there during the tornado scene. Bad luck.

[@SUPERMEDIABROTHERS6]

@@SpawnRevenge92 you win comment of the year

[@PMbarbieri]

The "symbol of hope" vs "just an S" part ends up being unintentionally funny in the Italian dub: our word for "hope" is "speranza", which starts with S, so when that scene came up everyone in the theatre was like "yes, S stands for speranza".

[@tinkerer3399]

That's hilarious, did they address it in the dub at all or just a straight up translation.

[@PMbarbieri]

@@tinkerer3399 Straight up translation: we usually don't diverge too much from the script, unless it's some wordplay or reference that wouldn't make sense in our language. It would have been funny though.

[@tinkerer3399]

@@PMbarbieri Yeah, I was asking because I figured it would count under wordplay that wouldn't make sense in translation.

[@bendewalt5560]

🤣 dude this comment made my day, thanks alot

[@Future_Vantas]

Sounds like a Seasme Street skit

[@Drekal684]

Here's something I've been thinking about for a long time. Why is this movie even called Man of Steel? Wouldn't it be better to make it Last Son of Krypton? It's more thematically relevant. Heck, you can do that with Superman's main nicknames. Call the first movive Last Son of Krypton, make the villain Zod. Then Man of Steel and make the villains Metallo and Brainiac. Then the last movie in the trilogy is Man of Tomorrow and the villain is Lex. To me, that would be a lot more interesting as you tie the nicknames associated with Superman into his enemies, allowing for an interesting juxtaposition that a talented writer could explore thoroughly within the runtime of a movie.

[@Godzilla-tu2cd]

Exactly why wasn't this called the last son of krypton? That title makes way more sense and it fits the the story. Kinda like the dark knight. This movie can't even get that right 🤦

[@williamcorey4700]

The problem lies with your last passage. You said a talented writer. This is Snyder

[@DinoDave150]

@@williamcorey4700 Well technically this movie was written by David S. Goyer. It wasn't until BvS that Snyder started getting more hands on with the writing.

[@yugoxgc]

Also your title idea would make the 1st scene relevant. As is its completly irrelevant with the "Man of Steel" title

[@williamcorey4700]

@@DinoDave150 David S Goy...wasn't he behind Blade Trinity?

[@jarekgunther]

"What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?" "My boat."

[@maxxjapan619]

Meanwhile in Captain America: Civil War Cap argues that even if they can't save everyone, they have a duty to help whoever they can.

[@jacobovillamizar3363]

Obviously the military couldn't help the Indian city because the Indian city is over there, and over there must to stand for itself.

[@danubeisreallypeculiarrive7944]

I guess China and India just accepted their fate? I hate Amerocentrism. There are other military powers in the world. Hack even North Koreans would send their old jets to help.

[@AshuraH]

Linkara: I hate CGI Sand. It's boring and disturbing and everyone uses it.

[@thatonea-hole]

Ah, CGI sand and holograms, such overused effects in movies & TV shows

[@Franandlar]

It Is Overused And Overrated

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

Which sucks, cus the theoretical tech behind that CGI sand (claytronics) is pretty amazing, so it becoming boring CGI tricks to shorthand how FUTURE someone is!

[@daelen.cclark]

And it goes everywhere.

[@darkmyro]

​@@gratuitouslurking8610 honestly I think some of the best cgi is when it's boring. like both mad max fury road and district 9 have a ton of cgi in them( not always in the obvious places), but most of it is designed for you not to notice it. Honestly the worst cgi is when it's your brain going "I can see the polygons! Omg it looks like a cartoon!" Like the cgi becomes a distraction and takes you out of the movie. on top of that Hollywood (and marvel and superheroes especially) aren't planned out enough in advanced for the cgi to look good in those movies, the cgi that looks better is when the director has a vision early on in the pipeline. Though I personally think people are a little harsh on the cgi, I feel if it gets the point across in the story and it's not super distracting that people shouldn't complain as much.

[@thomaspalazzolo5902]

Solution for beating Zod: Superman kisses him, thereby erasing his memories.

[@Logan912]

Rubber lips are immune to Superman’s charms.

[@onionninja5554]

I think that’s literally a robot chicken skit

[@maux7767]

"you're 33 years old! how long do you have to wait!" Wow, didn't expect to get this emotional damage on my 33 year old ass from Linkara today lol

[@robo-nidai4236]

"The use of color in this film is more like a horror movie." And yet ironically Brightburn, the horror movie that was basically "what if Superman was an evil child", had more color in it than this movie does.

[@infinityalbi9840]

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[@colossusofsol2643]

Had a brief thought about the Jonathan Kent death scene. Might have been better if it was a scenario where Clark had to choose between saving Jonathan or someone else (maybe a group) and Jonathan told him to save the group. The idea being his final lesson to Clark was self sacrifice

[@jurassickaiju14]

Oh good lord, _yes._

[@DinoDave150]

That idea is SO much better than what we actually ended up with.

[@demianoff]

It be jarring though with gow Jonathan seems to hate everyone

[@colossusofsol2643]

@@demianoff Oh for sure, it would require a complete rewrite of his character in the movie, I was just thinking of the one scene

[@DavyEddyBenny]

Although that would mean that Jonathan cared more about Clark use his powers for good than let everyone die and keep his secret, and this movie can’t have that.

[@JinxProductions]

Clark: “What was I supposed to do, just let them die? Johnathan: “Well Clark, to me, that problem was ‘Over there’, and ‘Over there’ needs to take care of itself”

[@fifinostalgia]

Clark: What was I supposed to do? Let people die? Jon: *pauses for a beat then sighs* No, no, what you did was the right thing. It’s just…you have to remember, the what you have, your abilities, your gifts, they are unique to you. You just need to be careful, the kinda questions that Mrs. Ross is asking scare us. I don’t want people taking you away to see what you are. We just want you to be safe. Something like this would make Jon Kent way better and shown him as protective, and encouraging Clark to save people while also establishing the importance of these powers being a secret, eventually leading to him gaining the Superman secret identity.

[@MadameTamma]

Picture a scene like this: Clark as a kid is getting bullied. Pete Ross takes his backpack and dumps it's contents all over the ground while Clark just takes it. He goes home and talks to his parents. He tells them he didn't fight back because he didn't want to hurt anyone. Jonathan tells his son that it's good that he doesn't want to hurt anyone but he should never just let bullying happen. No one deserves to be bullied. He takes a book out for them to look at together. It's 'The Golem of Prague'. They read it every year for the holidays. Jonathan points to an illustration in the book where the Golem stands in the traditional superman pose in front of the people protecting them and says, "See? When the people were in trouble, they didn't just allow themselves to be pushed around. They got help from the Golem, remember? If they bully you again, you can get help to make them stop." Cut to sometime later. Clark sees those same bullies, this time ganging up on two of his classmates. Clark looks for someone to help but sees no one else around. He decides to step into the situation himself, demanding that the bullies leave the two boys alone. Pete tries to push Clark but he stands his ground and even pushes back (Just enough to make Clark look strong, but not inhumanely strong) He makes the bullies leave. Clark turns to the two boys to help them up. "Hey, Joe, Jerry, you guys okay?" Joe responds by telling him thanks and Clark replies "No problem. I'm here to help." Boom there you go. There's a scene that would establish how Jonathan Kent helped positively influence his son, pays respects to Superman's original roots, and sets up where Clark would be emulating that pose from.

[@jadenbryant9283]

were the bully victims names a nod to the supermans creators sorry if this sounds stupid

[@MadameTamma]

@@jadenbryant9283 yeah, that’s what I was going for

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@MadameTamma oh thats cool

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Friend, if you're not a writer already, I'd advise you to fix that as soon as you can. That understated bit of scene writing is pro level, trust me.

[@MadameTamma]

@@johnathonhaney8291 That's really nice of you to say, thanks

[@AgaiLazen]

There's a quote from Zack Snyder that is VERY telling. "I had a buddy who tried getting me into 'normal' comic books, but I was all like "No one is having sex or killing each other, this isn't really doing it for me.""

[@AdonaiSaxon01]

But oh yeah this is the guy we need to write DC characters. The most optimistic characters out of comic books.

[@an8strengthkobold360]

@@AdonaiSaxon01 I still love how he saw a character who is a "billionaire child whose parents were murded that responded by becoming a genius inventor, ninja & detective so he can dress up as a bat and fight a mentally ill clown" and then thought him not killing people was the unrealistic part.

[@thetruewisegamer]

Ok can you link cause I don’t beli…….I don’t think someone will believe it unless I have a source

[@jackmonaghan8477]

It's why I say that Snyder is pretty much the Rob Liefeld of comic book movies.

[@romdan7136]

@@jackmonaghan8477 Except It's an actual competition who is worse. The only thing in the world I'll give Snyder for the DCEU was the Batman costume. That actually looked pretty good. I'm not even against an older Batman for the movie.

[@ashleyvanhammer3448]

"Superman is supposed to be better than us... The light to guide us to something better... Our world doesn't need a Superman who kills because it makes the world that much worse. Superman should never, ever, ever, EVER kill. Ever." "Sometimes what's in the comics is inconsistent and different writers do different stupid things and sometimes comic writers are just plain wrong." Your views on Superman alone are enough for me to recommend your channel to anyone. 💜 Thank you.

[@filmwarrior]

You know it's bad when Godzilla kept more buildings standing than Superman did.

[@cadethumann8605]

I recall HISHE's Godzilla 2014 video where Superman lamented how more people cheered for Godzilla despite the monster causing destruction. Well, the simple answer is that Godzilla is not bound to human standards. He's a creature that is a force of nature that happens to put an end to an bigger problem. Superman, meanwhile, is supposed to be one who follows human customs and standards, and yet he fails at his job.

[@DaveMiller6042]

​@@cadethumann8605Yeah, and Godzilla has the excuse of being a giant monster fighting other giant monsters he can't exactly easily relocate them, like Superman can clearly do with the other kryptonians.

[@wstine79]

Lois: "What's that "L" on your chest?" Linkara: "It's a symbol. It stands for 'I AM A MAN!" Lois: "Well, here it's just an 'L."

[@thatonea-hole]

🎵 Hey now you're an Allstar! 🎶

[@richmcgee434]

Nuts. When it comes to comics, L stands stands for Laser Pony.

[@DigiRangerScott]

Take the L!

[@maxxjapan619]

... WHY doesn't this have all the likes?

[@bacsilva]

The stills are OK, dude. We are here for your content

[@thatonea-hole]

Also he's not the only youtuber who does this for content ID reasons. Like for example, Mauler and other movie reviewers

[@TrackMaster844]

And the less we have to see of this movie overall, the better

[@frogurtcremebrulee5252]

I actually really like spinning stills, it makes the video so much funnier.

[@neogotham2k39]

That's true, it's better than nothing.

[@Pikachu2Ash]

@@TrackMaster844 Not like the visuals are that interesting anyways.

[@benreilly9513]

35:55 - Also, I've said it before and I'm saying it again- Y’know why I still love Superman: The Movie and why I argue that despite its pacing issues it still holds up? Because even at the birth of the superhero film genre Superman was grappling with his own relevance in a world that’s moved past the Golden Age of Comics. Because Superman: The Movie took 1940’s Hope-and-Optimism, Do-The-Right-Thing-For-Its-Own-Sake, Shining Beacon of Hope and Justice Superman, plunked him down in modernity (well, the then-modernity of the late 1970’s), asked “do we really need a character like this?” and answered with a resounding “Yes, we do. In fact, we might need him now more than ever.” Snyder is so busy high-fiving himself for making Superman Dark And Real that in three films, he can't even get to the point where he asks that question. Superman is perpetually the most relevant superhero for our times, in every time, because the right thing is ALWAYS worth doing. And Snyder managed to make his Superman the most irrelevant the character has ever been.

[@msfthe1st117]

the fact that the villain of that movie was literally Lex Luther big business real estate rich asshole furthers this point exponentially

[@paulmahoney7619]

@@kingdomfantasyomega Except that's not what Superman's about. Superman's whole point is that he does contemplate whether we're past saving, whether we need someone willing to say the ends justify the means, to put a permanent end to people who do harm. And the answer to those three questions is always a resounding NO. The entire point of every re-examination of Superman's morals is that while he has changed, we always need someone willing to be a paragon, and whether or not we deserve it, that's who superman is.

[@MadameTamma]

Here's an idea for the truck guy. Clark is fuming. He happens to pass by the truck and sees a picture of the jerk inside. As a bit of revenge without thinking things through, Clark punches a headlight. He only wanted to break the truck a little bit, give the guy an annoyance to have to deal with, but he uses too much strength and the whole thing is sent flying. Immediately Clark regrets it. You can see it all over his face, he knows he shouldn't have done that. He wants to do something to make it right, at least put it back in the right position, but he can hear people coming to see what the commotion is and runs off. He hides behind something and listens to the lament of the trucker. Clark feels guilty for not being more careful and for the rest of the movie tries, harder to be more responsible with his strength.

[@Fhaolan]

Dunno if this was mentioned in another comment somewhere, but those aren't powerpoles impaling the truck. It was a logging truck, and those were the logs it was carrying. All the sparks make you *think* it was powerlines, but they seem to be from the truck itself. Which makes less sense, really, as truck batteries aren't really that much more impressive than regular car batteries.

[@tonystark106422]

What really gets me about that moment is that the cab probably belongs to the trucker, but if those are power lines and telephone poles, that belongs to the municipality of that part of Canada. Either that, or they are all of the lumber that the trucker was hauling. Clark annihilated a bunch of stuff that doesn't even belong to the drunk guy just to get back at him. A profoundly NOT Superman thing to do. So basically, even though Clark is like 6 ft 5 and made of muscle, thusly acting as something of a bouncer to throw out drunk jerks when they do stuff like harass the wait staff and cause a scene like this is totally within Clark's job description, he instead decides to quit for no reason. THEN! Goes outside and destroys someone else's property to get some kind of petty payback at a random loser who should have been thrown out by the management, and somehow no one hears this demolition derby nightmare in the parking lot outside, at a diner/bar that appears to be near a major roadway or highway. What the hell even IS this movie?

[@tobsonasanya4765]

eh

[@brandonlyon730]

@@tonystark106422 Well in fairness superman 2 had the scenes where he is depowered and had to deal with a bunch of assholes in a diner, then at the end where he comes back to the same diner he deals with the same asshole again. The guy punches him and seemingly breaks his hand from it, then he throws him across the table into a pinball machine. Granted it's not as bad as destroying an entire Truck, but his hand was damaged enough and plus the injuries from landing in a pinball machine would probably mean a hefty medical bill if he doesn’t have insurance. Not sure if this was in Richard Donners original cut or if this was a Lester addition though.

[@tobsonasanya4765]

@@jlev1028 i don't see the issue. is that the logs had spark in them?

[@tobsonasanya4765]

@@brandonlyon730 it ain't a bad a s destroying a truck? you sure

[@tonystark106422]

Here's a nitpick for you! The scene where Jonathan goes back to the car to save the dog? Neal Adams commented on this, and while he was kind of kooky in real life, he's right. Why is the dog still in the car? Have you ever met a dog that wasn't the FIRST one out of the car?

[@Revan498]

my family's dog LOVES riding around in any vehicle, and often naps in the seat of our golf cart on the off chance someone will take it and she can catch a ride. Despite this, she still leaps out of whatever vehicle she's riding the second it comes to a complete stop (or sometimes jus slows down) 😅

[@stevenstice6683]

I can only name one incident in particular where the dog was not only the last to leave, but was the only casualty; that would be the Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse.

[@MarioBario]

Any animal can be afraid to the point where they just completely freeze and aren't able to move

[@atmaeon]

The dog was out to kill Jonathan Kent. Its what instilled into him the never save anyone morality, he went back to prove it to Clark who clearly misinterpreted the situation.

[@jacks7852]

My biggest problem with Snyder's take on superman above everything else is that his version of Superman is an "other". And that's horrifying to me. Superman's creation is at its core deeply tied into the immigrant story since he was created by the children of Jewish immigrants to America. The entire point is that despite not being born on earth he IS still human. To reject that specific concept to me is really really gross and blind to the history of the character.

[@carloszapata847]

I remember Wisecrack explained he made Superman more of a Randian Objectivist like Batman (or at least his version of Batman) so the audience would sympathize with him human and relatable like Batman. That makes no sense.

[@kingofthegundam7974]

It's worse than that. In order to prove himself to Earth, Clark has to sacrifice every trace of his alien heritage (represented by Zod and his men) in order to fit in as an American. He literally joins the (Daily) Planet by the end.

[@bthsr7113]

Snyder focuses on the super, not the man.

[@krisscott5342]

"Blind to the history of the character." That's it in a nutshell.

[@GeneralKenobi75]

@@carloszapata847 For both Superman and Batman that is a terrible interpretation. Because both characters are so anti-Randian in concept. Both have amazing power, Superman with his alien abilities and Batman with incredible wealth and intellect, but don't set themselves above the rest of humanity with them. They want to use what they have to help humanity simply because it's the right thing. Ironically, the most Randian comic book character created is Lex Luthor.

[@jamesinzeo7726]

Lived in Kansas for three years as a kid and I can appreciate Linkara giving tornado advice. You can always tell a Midwest guy if you’re giving sound advice about tornados!

[@doggosho3044]

It's even more shocking because he's from Minnesota, yes we have them but out of every Midwest state, we get them the least

[@richborn6700]

​@@doggosho3044our state has had several major tornadoes reshape things especially down in the lower part. Mayo Clinic exists because the brothers got together with the nuns in the area after the major tornado tore through Rochester in the 1880s

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

Christopher Nolan, who was a producer of some sort on this film, is on record saying something he really regrets was having Batman let Ra's al'Ghul die in the first movie. His reasons are various, from thematic, to convenience, but nonetheless, he felt so strongly about it that he actually insisted that Superman should not kill Zod in this movie. Snyder hounded him about this until he finally relented and told Snyder that if he wanted to go that way, it should only happen because Zod leaves Superman no other choice, and it should be something that Superman regrets doing. So, Snyder did the absolute minimum effort required to meet those demands and called it good, because for Snyder, it was important that Superman kill someone and he didn't care if the how or why made sense. In his mind, you simply could not have a satisfying movie unless the hero kills the villain. And this is why I dislike Snyder's work. It all comes from this kind of shallow worldview where violence is cool in and of itself, people who don't kill aren't realistic. In Zacky-boy's world, you must have some reason for not wanting to kill someone, instead of killing someone being an aberrant behavior that only people who have thoroughly desensitized to violence are capable of easily committing. To Zack Snyder, if you don't think killing is okay, it's because something is wrong with you.

[@natek4488]

If that's Snyders worldview, then why did WB hire him in the first place?

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

@@natek4488 Warner Bros has this weird habit of hiring people who don't like Superman to write Superman. I couldn't say why.

[@natek4488]

@@cheezemonkeyeater That makes no logical sense. If you're making a movie about a character, you don't hire someone who hates said character. It's like with Michael Bay and the Transformers movies.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

@@natek4488 Yet, they do. WB has weird ideas about how this works.

[@gunsniper0018]

@@cheezemonkeyeater That makes a strange sort of sense. Look at James Gunn (not saying he's a bad writer or anything), they probably saw brightburn which is pretty much the perfect anti-superman movie and went "this guy is perfect" (which is hilarious as brightburn proved he and his brothers probably know superman better than many writers do if only to make the perfect evil version of supes).

[@whitefox411-gamer7]

My favorite depiction of Superman's Earth family is when The Martian wanted to learn about Christmas. Then Superman was all "come with me, my family is used to men from other planets showing up on their farm." Then the rest of it is just the parents talking about how they had to deal with a kid that had both x-ray vision and super strength when wrapping presents.

[@kamikazelemming1552]

That was a great episode. I especially loved Flash's interaction with Ultra-Humanite.

[@ThePatxiao]

Clark believing Santa is real as an adult(though to be fair, he lives in the DCU. Santa is probably real) and he used his x-ray vision to peak. That was great superman

[@anarchomando7707]

@@ThePatxiao to be fair Santa gives Cole to dark side every year I think the belief in Santa be real is fully believable in this universe

[@legomaniac213]

@@ThePatxiao Not only is Santa real, but he's badass enough to fight through the forces of Apokolips just to personally deliver Darkseid his piece of coal every! single!! year!!!

[@skyslasher2297]

It also reveals that Clark still believes in Santa and that's just adorable.

[@ryandowney8743]

That restaurant scene drives me crazy too. CLARK IS HUGE! The guy causing trouble is even a little smaller than him! He doesn't need to use his super strength to beat him up or at least force him out of the restaurant. As long has you don't chuck the guy across the continent nobody is going to call you an alien, Clark!

[@bigbearkat2010]

Omg thank you. People have mentioned ever since Man of Steel came out how jacked Henry Cavill is and even with the baggy shirt you can tell he probably has at least thirty pounds of muscle on this dumbass, I don't see literally anybody batting an eye on this guy getting his ass kicked.

[@brandonlyon730]

Well in Superman 2 in the ending he deals with the same asshole as before when he was depowered and after coming back at the same diner again he allows the guy to punch him when he has powers again and he backs his hand from doing so. He then chucked him across a long bar into a pinball machine. Granted he didn’t work their and he was technically the less imposing Clark Kent there, but he dibertly went out of his way to go back out there to mess with the asshole knowing he has no chance to beating him up again. Not sure though if this was in the original Donner version or if it was a lester addition.

[@fluffyman85]

Small guy even tries to push Clark but has no effect.

[@KingOfMadCows]

He's also working at a bar. Wouldn't he be expected to deal with drunk unruly customers? If I was the bar owner and a big muscle bound guy like Clark came looking for a job, I would hire him to be the bouncer.

[@Xone9]

Facts. Clark could have literally picked that little asshole up and thrown him out the door and nobody would have given it a second thought. Honestly, wrecking the guy's semi was kind of a bitch move in comparison.

[@codenate02]

This is the first review I can recall seeing where the reviewer outright acknowledges that they're nitpicking because they don't like the film as a whole. Not that I think that's bad. I think it's a good thing to acknowledge that viewers tend to be more willing to excuse minor nitpicks and issues if we appreciate the final product as a whole. As a fan of recent Star Wars properties that commonly fall victim to complaints that in my opinion are nitpicks, I think that acknowledging that our overall opinion of a product colors what we can stand is important to keep in mind.

[@DigiRangerScott]

Also, some nits being picked are what’s remaining when all the big pieces are sanded off by 9 years of other KZbinrs having their say

[@JuanLeon-oe6xe]

Cough cough final fantasy "fans" cough cough halo reach/4 cougg

[@101Mant]

The nitpicks that annoy me is when people are upset that every single thing isn't explained. Sure when something happens that seems implausible or unlikely then it might need explaining but if you stop and explain every detail of how every character knows everything they know or gets to every place they travel the film or show would quickly drag and the pacing would be really bad.

[@SUPERMEDIABROTHERS6]

A friend of mine calls this the “Indiana Jones Principle” if you’re enjoying a movie you’re less likely to notice plot holes or little problems here and there. But if you don’t enjoy the movie then every little thing is gonna pop out at you.

[@jurassickaiju14]

@@SUPERMEDIABROTHERS6 Why the "Indiana Jones Principle"?

[@guillermopena8412]

I wonder how different this movie would have been if they had switched Jonathan and Jor-el's philosophies. Have Jor-El be worried that humans will reject his son and have him tell Clark that he should hide or flee if Zod shows up, thus prioritizing his son over humanity who he doesn't really value. But Jonathan is the one who encourages Clark to be a hero, to use his power for good and to protect the innocent by fighting evil. Then when Zod arrives, Clark's philosophies lead him to confront him in order to protect humanity, much to Zod's amusement because he believes to be much more powerful, but Clark's upbringing is what gave him the conviction to stand up to Zod and fight for the innocent people of earth. In the end, it is his humanity what makes him Superman.

[@skibot9974]

That sounds way better

[@spasebar]

This is a million times better!

[@mikemorro140]

It's actually a big problem that Linkara kinda touches on but Jor-El feels more human than Jon and is more hopeful and gives better lessons.

[@guillermopena8412]

@@mikemorro140 Yeah, and I think part of the reason comes back to the argument that they made Superman Jesus. Man of Steel has Jor-El and Pa Kent be both of Jesus’s fathers, God and Joseph respectively. God is the one who gives Jesus his morality, Jesus becomes the savior because he follows and shares God’s teachings. Joseph though was just the man who took care of him as he grew up, the bible doesn’t touch on any lessons Jesus learned from Joseph, even as a child Jesus had better morals than him. It’s the same with Man of Steel. Jor-el is this distant ethereal God that gives Clark his moral code and his mission to protect and save humanity. Jonathan Kent is Joseph, he is just the guy who fed Clark as he grew up, Clark always had better morals than Pa Kent and just like Joseph, Pa Kent dies when his son is a young man about to start his savior journey. This is why Jor-el and Jonathan are given the roles they are given….but that’s not Superman, that’s Jesus. Jesus is a man whose godhood made him a savior. Superman is a god whose humanity made him a hero.

[@ghidorah15]

That would've been *way* better.

[@tyrongkojy]

The absolute worst part of the neck snap is he turns it TOWARD the people. He snaps it to the right. Same place as the civilians. Yes, the direction he snapped it is WORSE than the snap itself, because it just makes it dumb as WELL as "sacrilegious" to the character! Like, there's no real scene composition or continuity, and Snyder is usually pretty good with scene composition, as I recall!

[@MrDman21]

Brightburn was a better Superman origin story than this. At least he actually killed people on purpose 😂

[@spectre111]

I think it could have been tied into the story better, Superman killing Zod did not really bother me because this is not cold blooded murder. This is not like Zod was completely helpless and at Superman's mercy, he made it clear he was going to kill innocent civilians for no reason other than revenge and could have broken free at any moment. Clark pleaded with Zod multiple times to stop and he made it clear he was not going to and with less than a second Clark had to decide what was the lesser evil here. The fact that he's torn up about Zod's death shows that he is trying to hold onto that ideal of morality and is afraid that he failed.

[@tobsonasanya4765]

@@jlev1028 like??

[@Jason_Altea]

@@tobsonasanya4765 Fly up and out of range of the civilians and incapacitate him there Use his own heat vision on Zod to distract him and disrupt his concentration Turn his head up to redirect it harmlessly into the sky Turn his head downward so Zod would be forced to either stop or destroy himself Have Superman take the heat vision bullet himself And I'm sure there are even more

[@tobsonasanya4765]

@@Jason_Altea he didn't give any permanent solution though

[@h3lldr0p]

My biggest issue with all of the Jesus allegory is that the original creators of the character were Jewish and purposefully choose to use the story of Moses as their basis for Superman. There were plenty open and honest about it, too. It's not really a point of debate or conjecture, it's solid fact. So for Snyder to toss that out the window or otherwise ignore it says a lot about what the producers, writers, and directors think.

[@bigbearkat2010]

There was a book I read about the history of Superman and it had a whole chapter dedicated of people making claims of Superman being an allegory for various religious figures.

[@VicenteTorresAliasVits]

Not to mention that it's weird for someone who literally fights evil to be represented by a figure that was against violence regardless of the situation. Granted, Moses didn't exactly punch his way through Egypt, but he didn't turn the other cheek either.

[@brianriff8550]

tbf, Snyder is a pretty open fan of Objectivists and their philosophies, as he presents Rorschach in Watchmen as cool and valid in pretty definitive opposition to the text of the comic, and has been trying to get a Fountainhead adaptation off the ground for years, so i assume that by extension his opinions on Jewish people are...not that favorable

[@anarchomando7707]

I know Superman is such a old concept but think about it when he was made and why he was popular Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound! Look! it's a bird! it's a plane! it's Superman! Defender of the innocent! Bringing peace and love to all no matter what's Even if he has to go outside the law to save humanity! Superman was written to be the OC Mary Sue power fantasy for two Jewish 17-year-old kids from the Great depression! From Cleveland Ohio. Jerry Siegel(the writer) and joe Schuster(the artist wanted to create something they both loved "Clark Kent" derived from movie stars Clark Gable and Kent Taylor.[8] Lois Lane was modelled on Joanne Carter, a model hired by Shuster. She later married co-creator Jerry Siegel in 1948.[8](y Jerry was also a model for a Superman But they were both inspired by strong men the muscle bound men wearing only a thong and lifting incredible weights heck to show how Superman was to leap for a drawing jerry would leap off the couch! The whole reason the cape existed was to show motion on comics. (yeah he couldn't fly only leap it was because of the cartoon in the 40s that he gain the ability to flight because it was easier to draw for the [Fleischer Brothers cartoon which had the budget of films](kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppivfntmg6ypnsk) The original comics often criticize heavily capitalism and war profiteers, persecution of minorities! 12 issues and not a single super villain All 12 consisted of saving humanity from the worst of itself They are everything that Jerry Siegel and joe Schuster wantebecause they got screwed over the most they sold Superman for only 300 bucks (that's only 2,000 in today's currency give or take). When a(action comics #2) corrupt senator senator is looking to get the USA into war in exchange for a stipend of the weapons sales profit Superman goes in picks him up and makes him sign up for the military And see what the damage is those weapons caused (Ultimately making the arms dealer says oh no I don't want to die And Superman replies with oh so it's okay when you let others die in your place When (action comics # 3) a coal Baron is allowing for his workers to mine in unsafe conditions purely because it's more cheaper not to put any safety precautions in (and use immigrant labor because they're the lowest of the low in society's eyes) He goes on the cover, and sneaks in as an immigrant analysis the situation(Clark Kent was supposed to be a God damn Muckraker!) And in the end lures in the coal barons and the bourgeois And then causes a collapse in The mineshaft Saying, "I'm content to die how about you? He only allows them to exit after forcing them to swear to rebuild and improve the conditions He destroyed cheap housing blocks created as practically death traps for the tenants because they were far more cheaper materials And to force the government to have to rebuild it under the New deal system with far stronger materials! When he saw that children were going to prison because of the system screwing them over constantly that they have to go to crime ! he rebelled against the system he said screw the cops the people deserve better and staged a breakout he went undercover in prisons and reported on the horrific conditions and it caused massive outrage against the prison Superman in the radio drama[radio drama](kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmOcc5-Klr6NZrc) fought against the ku Klux Klan a racist xenophobic isolationist and anti Catholic organization! They actually got people to go undercover into a sect and reveal all of the insanely bunkers ideology Time and time again in the original comics he would be very critical of capitalism racism, imperialism xenophobia and so much more And he would help those in need He would punch wife beaters because of them beating their wives Personally it would be dishonest to even call him a Moses allegory originally, yes Moses elements were added the family of Kent's were added, But he is still a vital part of Jewish folklore He is a Golem, a Golem to help the working class and solve society of its ills.

[@kingofthegundam7974]

It's a thing in Hollywood apparently, Moon Knight had his jewishness heavily downplayed in the MCU show, when it was a major component of his character in the comics.

[@SUPERMEDIABROTHERS6]

As someone with sensory issues, “the world is too big” feels stupid and overwritten. They could have gotten the same ideas across with “it’s all too much” or “there’s too much”. It would have fit the reality of the scene, while also being more relatable to me and folks like me.

[@tonystark106422]

There's a moment I love in the Mark Waid miniseries, "Birthright", where we see Clark growing up with his adoptive parents on the farm. Jonathan, feeling strange about how his wife and his son are handling things, goes up to Clark's old bedroom on the second floor. We see a shot of the wall, and there are these little magic marker lines that have been drawn. Each line says one year, two years, three years, four years, and then? Jonathan looks straight up at the bedroom ceiling, and we see this huge impact damaged like something was thrown headfirst into it, a long time ago. Jonathan laughs and comments, "Clark, 5 years". Some great visual storytelling that suggests how life at the Kent Farm must have been like, and is also internally consistent with the pseudoscience of the Superman comic universe, just really good storytelling.

[@oddtail_tiger]

I'm not a big fan of the movie (I don't hate it, just think it's mediocre), but as a person that sometimes gets overwhelmed by certain sensory input... I honestly kinda like the line. I guess I have a different perspective on it for some reason?

[@SUPERMEDIABROTHERS6]

@@oddtail_tiger different folks with different flavors of neurodivergency. If it worked for you, that’s awesome. I couldn’t relate to it. But I’m glad someone could :)

[@SuperEasywalker]

Weirdly enough the new show SUPERMAN AND LOIS one of their son Jordan Kent has social anxiety and experiences panic attack as seen in the premiere episode, then once his power develop he also experiences sensory overload.

[@someonewhocommentsonyoutub3779]

@@oddtail_tiger As someone else whose senses are constantly dialed up to 11, I like the scene itself and the idea but the dialogue always felt a bit clunky

[@UncleCarpsGamingCorner]

I think one of the saddest castings of modern age is Henry Cavill as Superman. He would've actually been perfect for the role, if they had allowed him to be a more of a happy Superman.

[@Talyrion]

Between this and the Witcher, he really seems to be the right actor at the wrong time.

[@somerandolad]

And James Gunn had a chance to give Henry one last hoorah, but no.

[@ShadowKamehameha32]

​@@Talyrion I feel it's more; Right Actor, Wrong Writers

[@daelen.cclark]

One of the few times I’d be okay with Snyder actors in commercials.

[@mmmghool]

Pete Ross becoming a priest because he was saved by a Jesus metaphor as a kid would’ve been funny

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

I love how alot of the choises in the movie were made for the sake of ugh "realism" yet Linkara keeps pointing out how alot of times logic and realism are thrown out the window for the sake of this plot

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Proving something Hitchcock was right about storytelling. In an interview he gave with Truffaut, he answered the question of why his characters didn't go to the police in his films by saying "because it's dull." So is the plot of Man of Steel.

[@shino4242]

A lot of the time "realism" in fiction doesn't mean "realistic", it means, well, having consequences for actions and being a bit (or a lot) darker because things aren't just gonna magically work out. Nothing is realistic about a group of aliens having a super power fight that levels part of a small town and the downtown area of a major urban center. The "realism" is Clarks dad dying, or "needing" to kill Zod, or his escapades over the years leaving a trail for a reporter to follow and learn the truth. Logic and good writing were definitely thrown out the window...but the "realism", in the way its used for fiction, is still there. Technically. Actual realism, the way you mean it, is when writers use the word "grounded" because what they generally mean is "grounded in reality".

[@Talisguy]

"Realism" is a funny thing. For one thing, realism is subjective in fiction, especially speculative fiction, and most of us are looking for our version of "realism" in fiction. For another, _everyone thinks they're being realistic._ Everyone is a realist in their own mind.

[@Thesquishiestbean]

Superman is NOT Jesus. He was put in a cradle and sent far away where he was adopted by people who helped develop his natural talents. Superman is Moses.

[@krystlvines]

The whole "don't use your powers to help" thing makes more sense when you remember that snyder is an objectivist. Also explains the scene in justice league where cyborg *doesn't* end global financial inequality.

[@paulmahoney7619]

Funny how objectivism with only like four exceptions always winds up making superheroes less heroic to everyone with a basic sense of morality. Almost as if it's not a very useful ideology.

[@ElvenRaptor]

@@paulmahoney7619 Well said. Only looking out for number one doesn't work.

[@Dreigonix]

God, Ayn Rand really has done incalculable damage to art and media. How is she still a thing?

[@krystlvines]

@Dreigonix She gives rich assholes an excuse to be rich assholes. How do you think?

[@ricarlab.967]

1:01:46 Jonathan: "It's not like he's really dead, Martha. He just can't be Clark anymore." Clark: "But, I am Clark! I need to be Clark! I'd go crazy if I'd have to be Superman all the time!"

[@Avenger85438]

Why isn't someone sponsoring Linkara to review _that_ episode of Lois and Clark?

[@retrofan93]

@@Avenger85438 Lois and Clark? That's almost directly from the script from the Superman: The Animated Series episode "The Late Mr. Kent".

[@Avenger85438]

@@retrofan93 There was a similar episode in that show were Clark gets shot, in front of everyone and has to pretend to be dead.

[@taintedscholar5044]

So... How come hologhost Jor-El isn't made out of CGI-sand like the rest of the Kryptonian displays?

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

Because he’s the father. Superman the son, and this movie is the Holy Spirit. If Zack Synder is allowed to have a sacralige take on Superman, so can I.

[@ShadowKamehameha32]

A paycheck.

[@phillyvoodoo]

Never noticed that plot hole.....

[@notmyrealname453]

Because he’s played by Russell Crowe.

[@lucasgartley9603]

Because Jor-El saw how stupid the other displays were and invented something better.

[@Bismuth83X]

I hate how afraid movie creators are of giving superheroes colorful suits. They help the characters stand out from the background and each other, and any dismissal of it on the grounds that it wouldn't be "realistic" is stupid, mainly because it's CLOTHING and can be whatever color its creator wants. This is similar to one of my problems with the character designs in the Michael Bay Transformers movies: In most other Transformers works, the Transformers have unique colors that make them stand apart from each other (Jetfire is typically red and white with some black and maybe blue, Shockwave and Galvatron are purple, Soundwave is blue, Ironhide is red, Arcee and Elita-One are usually pink, Chromia is cyan, the Constructicons are neon green with purple accents, etc.) while in Bayformers they're mainly black, gray, silver, or brown (the only real aversions I can think of are Optimus (blue and red), Bumblebee (yellow), Ratchet (greenish yellow), Skids (green), Mudflap (orange), Wheeljack (blue), Arcee (pink), Chromia (blue), Elita-One (purplish-pink), Drift (blue) and Wheelie (blue)). Thankfully, the MCU (and, tying in with my previous comment about the Transformers movies, Bumblebee and subsequent movies) seems to be less afraid of having colorful characters. In particular, I'm hoping Cyclops's design takes after the Jim Lee one.

[@daelen.cclark]

The MCU finally has Wolverine in the classic yellow and blue, so there’s a hope for Cyclops.

[@ShinyGaara65]

The best thing I can call this film is "cynical." Cynical in the case that any time, EVERY time someone tries to do something good in this movie for a genuinely good purpose, they get punished for it. Jor-El dies trying to protect his planet or his son. Jonathan Kent dies trying to save a dog. Lois Lane can be argued to be doing good things but using alternative, grey methods like leakers or blackmail. Clark's such a Christ figure that the world just...revolves around him. It feels like Zack Snyder is taking the Frank Miller approach: "hate the outsider, get what you want, be selfish and step on everyone else to get it. That's the right thing to do. Helping others means you'll get yourself killed and you'll be wrong." I HATE this viewpoint.

[@101Mant]

Well he is an Objectivist and that's basically their viewpoint, altruism is bad and will hold you back, dont help the lesser people, concentrate on being exceptional. Unless you aren't, in which case it sucks but it's Nietzsche lite for narcissists so everyone following thinks they are in the exceptional category.

[@tobsonasanya4765]

no good deed goes unpunisheed

[@tobsonasanya4765]

@@jlev1028 green goblin lol. also i don't think the film is saying you should not be good lol

[@shino4242]

I mean, he's clearly a Miller fanboy. I wouldn't be beyond guessing that TDKR (maybe the whole trilogy, maybe not. Definitely the original though), Watchmen, and maybe Killing Joke and Batman:Year 1 are the only comics he's read. Just drinking Millers koolaide and missing the point of Moore's stories.

[@henrywilliams3355]

As someone who’s a huge fan of both your show and this movie, I absolutely loved this episode. It brought up several points about the movie I’d never thought of before and even just had me taking notes on the structure of the review itself as someone who wants to write reviews of my own. It was a fantastic episode and I think it was one of your best.

[@flyingfist4203]

"At least this review will be shorter than the Batman v Superman review right?" Man of Steel review: 1:26:45 The three parts of Batman v Superman review combined: 1:27:31 Wow, almost a whole minute shorter. That's impressive.

[@Psykolord1989]

"You are *technically* correct. *The best kind of correct!* "

[@MeliesCinemagician]

"What was I supposed to do, just let them drown?" "Maybe. You see, Clark, the school bus was 'over there,' and 'over there' needs to take care of itself." And Superman learned an important lesson that day.

[@bull705]

That lesson was, to quote Mr. Popo from DBZ Abridged: "Your father's an idiot!"

[@thedevilsapprentice6666]

You know, I just realized it now that I thought about it. At the part where Jonathan was like "Maybe you should have let those kids die to protect your secret" I just realized, Clark's secret would have been found out regardless due to the fact that Clark would have had an incredibly high chance of being the sole survivor of that crash.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

That was actually the starting point of M. Night Shyamalan's Unbreakable when you think on it, a MUCH better executed film.

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@johnathonhaney8291 I know people don't like m night shamalyn I do too but I genuinely liked Unbreakable its one of my favorite movies of all time

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@jadenbryant9283 Yeah, Shyamalan DID turn out to be vastly overhyped but I can never hate him for the existence of Unbreakable.

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@johnathonhaney8291 yeah agreed its actually and this may not be accurate its a better superman movie than man of steel

[@tcrpgfan]

@@jadenbryant9283 Dude, it's a better Superman movie than most Superman movies. Being better than MOS isn't exactly a high bar. What IS a high bar is being comparable to both versions of Superman 2.

[@ZemeckisTEN]

Fun fact: Robert Zemeckis (director of masterpieces like Back to the Future, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Forrest Gump, Cast Away and The Polar Express) was considered to direct a Superman film. So to me, the fact that we didn’t get a film on Superman, my favorite DC character, directed by Robert Zemeckis, my favorite filmmaker of all time, is MUCH more agonizing than Guillermo del Toro not being able to direct one. And trust me, I really like Guillermo del Toro.

[@OnDavidsBrain]

Buttheads

[@bthsr7113]

Sounds like a good choice.

[@ZemeckisTEN]

@@bthsr7113 IKR? Robert Zemeckis is a brilliant filmmaker. I’d LOVE it if he’d direct a DC Film. Especially considering he was considered to direct The Flash movie at one point.

[@stevethepocket]

And he probably would have put Alan Silvestri in charge of the score. Imagine a world where _both_ of the big epic theme music guys wrote their own Superman themes!

[@ZemeckisTEN]

@@stevethepocket Would’ve been absolutely beautiful.

[@BATCHARRO]

The thing about letting the children die to protect his identity seems like it's building up to the movie being about making hard choices, which is a good theme for Superman. The problem is the movie doesn't have hard choices. Let children die or let everyone know you have superpowers is not a "difficult choice". Let your father get eaten by a twister or let everyone know you have superpowers is not a difficult choice. And while whether to kill someone or let them hurt civilians is a harder choice, the problem is the character making that choice is literally Superman. This is like, imagine The Trolley Problem but the one at the lever is straight up Superman. Not such a moral dilemma, now is it?

[@tcrpgfan]

The first movie did this and did it better. Two nukes. One is heading to Hackensack, New Jersey... the other is going to the San Andreas Fault. Superman, even with his incredible speed, can't go after both at the same time. The reason it's a hard choice is precisely because of that. So he has to pick, and he goes with the one headed to NJ because someone he knows has family there and asked him to save them. Sure he time travels it and thwarts the other nuke as a result but we go along with it because it doesn't invalidate his choice. No, it just creates a paradox.

[@cassiedevereaux-smith3890]

@@tcrpgfan Superman is dying from Kryptonite. Miss Teschmacher.... Luthor's mistress... reveals that her mother is in Hackensack. She gives a condition for her removing the kryptonite: he had to save Hackensack first. Superman is conflicted.... Lois and Jimmy were in California on the faultline, but he agreed because otherwise he'd die and nobody would be saved. She removes the kryptonite, and because he's Superman he keeps his word.

[@mwc1707]

I think a lot of modern takes on Superman slips into this, he's so powerful he's scary. Because a lot of people believe a person with those powers would be a treat and scary. What they forget is the fact Clark is frankly raised to be a better person then most. An ideal of how we are suppose to be like. And since they writers can't understand or can't accept that, they write him like they expect people to act, like a selfish person.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

I blame 9/11 for that change. If you see Superman as a metaphor for America and recall how nuts America got with the War On Terror, then the sudden switch flip makes sense. The 2000s was when we got the Injustice games and comics like Irredeemable, after all.

[@seanmcloughlin5983]

My favorite Linkara line from his “what’s so bad about truth justice and the American way,” review. Good people exist, so why wouldn’t people with incredible abilities be good too.

[@o76923]

Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals. It allows you to do what you always wanted to do. In the case of Supreman, what he wants to do is help people.

[@nathanhall9345]

I apologize, I can't remember who said it (It might have even been Linkara). The fantasy isn't that a man as powerful as Superman exists. The fantasy is that a man that powerful can be wholly, incorruptably good. Stories about Superman that don't get that last part, aren't really about Superman at all.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@o76923 Abe Lincoln knew that by heart: "Nearly all men can stand up to adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

[@GdoubleWB]

Literally just realized this movie has less colour than Brightburn, the ACTUAL Superman horror movie.

[@lakelandbuzz2252]

"For your mission, Kal El, I give you this suit" "... But I prefer the one my mom made" "It has underwear on the *outside!* " "It's colourful!"

[@MJFERMEZLA]

Depressing fact : The Del Toro "at the mountains of Madness" project was cancelled... because of Ridley's Scott Prometheus... the producers thought that the 2 project were too close story wise. I actually have a respons for the Superman birth scene... JESUS ! No, really, I like the movie, but I admit Snyder insist too much on the Jesus allegory, making the birth of Kal El WAY TOO IMPORTANT !

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

It should have been Moses. Important but not that important

[@LaurianeG.]

Well, he consoled himself and made Pacific Rim and he said it was the only production he enjoyed from start to finish so that's nice. It's actually pretty sweet to learn about Pacifc Rim's production details. Also this kinda reminds me of that time Miyazaki wanted to adapt the horror manga Parasyte in film but couldn't get the rights, so he ended up making.... Ponyo. A very good and underrated film, but also a big tone shift.

[@nanardeurlambda]

... I don't see the connection to Jesus here.

[@fluidthought42]

Seriously, the Jesus allegory hampers the emotional core of the movie. I have real issues with how Jonathan Kent tells young Clark that Clark's biological father from the heavens, his Heavenly Father if you will, must've had a purpose for Clark on Earth. It's a very stilted and unnatural thing for Kent senior to mention because Jonathan has no way of knowing that, nor no reason for saying that! Maybe saying that the actual Abrahamic God YHWH has a purpose for Clark, or that Jor El must've cared enough to have wanted Clark kept safe. Or when Clark went to the priest for help, the priest could've given him true emotional guidance and have told Clark that self sacrifice is the most righteous of paths, but no. The movie has a strange tendency to both adopt religious language and framing for its allegory, while also positing Clark and Jor El as superior in morality to actual representation of religious belief! It's honestly bizarre. I'm a very agnostic theist verging on the heretical to fundamentalists, but even I don't mind the idea of a Superman who is christian. You can't tell me that the Kent household isn't one where grace is said before every meal (except for maybe breakfast before school, only so much time in the day you know). But the movie is way more concerned about us thinking of Clark as an allegory for Jesus Christ before even suggesting that Clark is a man of faith (beyond that priest scene, and again it only serves to frame him as a moral superior to the sole religious figure represented in the movie).

[@fluidthought42]

@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec That's honestly a way better biblical allegory for Clark. It even makes way more sense for the idea of him freeing people to recognize and realize a material struggle for a better world, not a struggle for necessarily just spiritual salvation. Also, it makes it a touch less sacrilegious and allows for Jor El to be a flawed man without being a God allegory himself.

[@autobotproductions1244]

just a friendly reminder, General Swanwick turns out to be Martian Manhunter later on... and he proceeds to do nothing throughout this film, BVS, and Justice League. ... wow

[@WraithTDK]

As for the ending, it's not just that Superman has killed a few times in the comics, it's that he very specifically killed *Zod* in the comics; during Johb Byrne's run. It kicked off the "Superman in Exhile" story, and that it, along with with Marrying Lois, his parents being alive post-Crisis, and his death at the hands of Doomsday, was one of his top four most notable moments in the past several decades. It's kind of what cemented in Superman's that he WOULD never kill. It wasn't "that's a line I'll never cross," it was "doing that was my single greatest mistake, and it's one that I will never make again."

[@3ndg4m3]

100% agree that the movie deserves the title “Last Son of Krypton” more than the one it has. From “It’s not from this world” to “You are not alone” to “Welcome to the Planet” at the very end, the film is obsessed with Clark being an alien-far more than Clark himself is, by all appearances. They obviously named it “Man of Steel” because “The Dark Knight” did so well, but that title worked thematically with the movie. This one… does not.

[@rmsgrey]

I'm pretty sure they named it "Man of Steel" because that was the name of the reboot miniseries in the 80s after Crisis on Infinite Earths. You know, the story that established the modern Superman as being Clark Kent first, only discovering his alien heritage after his powers came in during puberty, and having his Superman costume made by Martha Kent as a way of letting him rescue people openly while still having a life as Clark Kent. The origin that this movie totally retconned back to something more Silver Age.

[@Altar360]

I think what I like least in this portrayal of Superman is the pseudo-Randian idea towards him. I think this is seen more directly in Batman v Superman, but there’s this prevailing idea that Superman should just be allowed to do whatever he wants and not be bogged down by lesser being, a very Ayn Rand point of view. How Superman’s selfish pursuits would still be what’s best for the world. That is so antithetical to who Superman is though. His whole deal is that, despite being a god like being, he still humbles himself and keeps his humanity. He knows that even with his powers, he has no right to lord over others and he knows to be considerate of others’ well being.

[@GeneralKenobi75]

That's a very good point. They're making Superman a very John Galt and Jkhn Galt is not Superman. John Galt is Lex Luthor, that's how Lex Luthor sees himself.

[@Rendo86]

I know that Synder wants to bring an Ayn Rand novel to the big screen.

[@InsaneFoxx]

I recall I saw a picture where Martha Kent is saying the "you don't owe this world a thing, You never did" and Superman looking exasperated responding "You need to stop reading Ayn Rand, mom. Seriously"

[@brianriff8550]

@@GeneralKenobi75 I've never seen anyone describe it this way but yes you're 1000% right!! Superman is an example of someone with incredible power who's tempered by immense humbleness and compassion. He COULD do whatever he wants, but chooses to be gentle, kind and helpful to everyone. Lex is the perfect opposite because he's a man who thinks he has the right to do whatever he wants. He views everyone around him as small and insignificant, sees himself as someone who's owed admiration and respect. Snyder has it backwards; normal people have next to no value or place in his stories, and instead focuses on these incredible figures who deserve fear and reverence. It bothers the hell out of me seeing Superman and his comrades in the Justice League put on pedestals like this

[@GeneralKenobi75]

@@brianriff8550 Why thank you. And yes, that is the perfect summation. That is why Lex Luthor and Superman are the perfect enemies. They are the complete antithesis of each other. All-Star Superman portrayed that the best, after Lex Luthor gains Superman's powers and claims that if he had these powers to begin with he could have saved the world, Superman's response is-"you could have saved the world a long time ago Luthor, if it really mattered to you." That sums up Lex Luthor in a nutshell.

[@thomasfleming8131]

In answer to the "what else could he have done" defense, I remember a quote attributed to Stan Lee when asked who would win in a fight between two characters: "Who would win? Whoever the writer wants to win!" While I don't entirely agree with that response, it does apply here pretty well. The writers can solve the crisis in a number of different ways, especially avoid the crisis happening in the first place.

[@shadowmaster1313]

What else could he have done? Is a Watsonian (in-story) excuse for a Doylist (Out of story) complaint. My issue with the story is not made better by other parts of the story used to justify the bit I dislike

[@Shades14]

And that's the problem with Death Battle and its rip-offs in a nutshell.

[@trevholmes186]

@@Shades14 Disagree. Death Battle is for fun, and the people who make Death Battle are aware of that. I don't think they'd be foaming at the mouth if there was a canon battle between Superman and Goku where Goku won. It's the people who take Death Battle as their personal bible that are in the wrong.

[@herlocksholmes9341]

You know what, Superman just blocking Zod's heat vision with his hand or something actually could have been the perfect rebuttal to Zod's claim of "Never!". Zod will never stop attacking humans? Superman will never stop protecting them. But then, what are we trying to do here? Make Superman a symbol of hope? Psssh.

[@Walt_Xander94]

Either that wouldve killed Zod in a more brutal way because the heat vision would be deflected off of Superman's invulnerable skin & onto Zod's face at point blank, or there wouldve been smaller heat blasts going off of Superman's skin, into different directions. After all, there were *tons* of people in that train station, not just that family.

[@herlocksholmes9341]

@TheGameKeeper94 If the heat vision didn’t hurt Superman’s invulnerable hand, why would it hurt Zod’s equally invulnerable face? Also, I don’t really think the beam would work either of the ways you described.

[@indigosteel5702]

Blocking the HV with his hand would have been an excellent start; then maybe fly off with Zod in his hold at top speed. From there, he could either finish the fight on the moon, or in an homage to the classic movie, fly around the earth at maximum speed over and over until Zod just passes out from the sheer speed, force, and lack of oxygen. This would cement beyond all doubt that Superman is sturdier and better able to handle Earth’s atmosphere (or lack thereof), thus further conveying that while alien by birth, Earth is his homeworld.

[@Spider-Man_earth616]

@@indigosteel5702 where the fuck would they hold him?

[@indigosteel5702]

@@Spider-Man_earth616 Fortress of Solitude's probably got a Phantom Zone generator or red solar prison he can be put in. If not, well...Apokalips?

[@johnshephard9605]

I'm rather glad that you added the detail about how much control the writers had over the thing with Zod. It's a pretty obvious thing, yeah, but people overlook that fact all the time. I get why, it's easy to get caught up in the specific scenario you're handed, but it can be pretty frustrating.

[@VictoryArtz]

People say that you can't relate to Superman because he's overpowered, but a good majority of people, including myself have grown up with Parents or were adopted by a loving married couple, that instilled the right morals into our lives, figures that shaped who we are. Superman just reminds me the fact that people can be and are kind, and importantly have the capability to do the right thing. Snyder seems to throw that out of the window and tells us that we are fools to ever be kind, and trust people. That is why, even though I respect him, dont want to watch his movies anymore, it just makes it more deplorable

[@VulpusArmory]

I think Henry has the potential to be one of the best live action Supermen, but nearly every time the writing is the issue, not the acting

[@mikegates8993]

Sadly. Maybe one day we'll get a multiverse themed movie like No Way Home that will allow him to play actually play Superman as Superman should be. Or DC reboots the universe in the Flash movie and decides to keep the cast while changing the tone.

[@VulpusArmory]

@@mikegates8993 I pretty much had said the same thing ith Margot as Harley, while she still does not hold a candle to Arleen and Tara it just took a S Squad movie with better writing to show she is decent in the role. Jared though still feels like one of the back ground underlings of Bruce timm's Jokerz Lt from Batman Beyond

[@bthsr7113]

I mean, Geralt's quote about not choosing even the lesser evil could work in principle for Superman, and as others have pointed out, when your Superman is less inspiring and hopeful than Geralt of Rivia, WTF is wrong with your writing?

[@mikegates8993]

@@VulpusArmory Personally I'm still not fond of Margot as Harley, but that's more so because I've come to hate the modern Harley, so I probably will never be sold on her. And yes, Jared Leto is either bad casting or bad direction for the Joker, and we're sadly stuck with him until maybe the Flash movie, depending on how they handle the universe after that.

[@HP-ej3bo]

​@@VulpusArmoryI always liked Margot Robbie as Harley though. Even when she was just a sex symbol in the original suicide squad, she still brought this energy that made the movie somewhat bearable.

[@devlinburgess2463]

Also, I find it funny how some other commenters are comparing the film to Dragonball Z, when one of the running jokes about that series is that there always seems to be some sort of vacant field or canyon for the characters to fight in away from people, unlike the finale of this film. Actually, come to think of it, if you wanted to have Zod and Supes fight without civilian casualties....why not just have them fight near the other terraforming machine, in the Indian Ocean, where no one is around?

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Because these people are bad at their jobs.

[@jamesoblivion]

The non linear storytelling reminded me of Batman Begins, but without the structure. In Man of Steel, it often feels like they're throwing to a random flashback, whereas in Batman Begins, the purpose of each flashback is clear, usually from the moment it starts, because there is unambiguous setup for what it will reveal about Bruce Wayne, and how it relates to the present.

[@matheuslara1670]

I had the same impression

[@kimifw58]

Didn't Christopher Nolan work on this movie for some time?

[@DinoDave150]

@@kimifw58 I think he may have just written a first draft but then eventually settled for a producer's credit.

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@DinoDave150 honestly tho batman begins is what if man of steel was good if you think about it

[@shino4242]

Snyder is someone who knows how to pronounce "words" within the language of film making, but doesn't actually know what they mean or how to string a "sentence" together. He's the director version of those hollywood execs who think "movie succeeded because of this reason and this reason alone. Do that thing" without realizing there was more to it than that. Its not that he's devoid of any creativity or skill or anything. He just doesn't know what every tool in the toolbox actually does and uses them regardless because they are "cool"

[@Metrion77]

What's really sad is that there's not just a good movie hidden in here. There's a great one. A story of an adopted immigrant finding the careful balance between preserving his birth culture and embracing the local culture. Skip the opening on krypton. Skip the time skips. In the middle of Kansas, a kid learns he's not like everyone else. Have the conflict with his parents being pro-saving people but also repressive. Heck, even double down on the religious nature of the kents as christians, "helping people is our duty as good christian americans" apple pie spiel. But also have them be paranoid of people finding out about Clark's alien nature. Make it clear that it comes from a place of love and protection, but don't hide that it's repression that comes from fear. Then comes Zod. Don't paint him as this unredeemable space nazi, but instead as "the last survivor of krypton, seeking a new home for his people". Have him connect with Kal-El. Share stories of his father Jor-El. Have the cgi sand scene showing the glory of Krypton. Zod was a leader on Krypton who helped bring it to the peak of its power, only to be trapped in the phantom zone and escape only to find krypton destroyed. Have Krypton feel like this lost homeland Kal-El has a chance of reconnecting with. A lost utopia that Zod can help rebuild on Earth. A place where Kal-El can be proud of his history and powers. Zod's even helping him learn the language. Then the shoe drops. He goes back to his pod, uses his understanding of kryptonian to find that there was a program that got damaged but was supposed to play for John and Martha Kent when they found the pod with baby Kal-El. The actual audio-visual player is damaged, but the images and text are available. A history of the fall of Krypton, the corruption and abuse of power from leaders that led to the collapse of the planet and the self-destruction. The revelation that the corrupt leadership sent this pod with the genetic codex designed to overwrite human DNA with Kryptonian DNA, but the process would kill 99 out of every 100 humans. Instead, Jor-El sabotaged the pod and used it as an escape pod for his son. The house of El, the river symbolizing hope for the future, a future where Kal can help humanity and maybe someday use the codex to bridge the two species. Clark confronts Zod, who (because he's Zod) doesn't take the doubt of his leadership well. Being a kryptonian dictator, he decides to kill Clark, since the genetic codex is what he's been after this whole time. He does the heel turn. Big fight ensues. Zod escapes and heads to the Kent house. More fighting ensues. Zod grabs the codex and tries to turn it on the Kent's trapped in their collapsed home. He puts the same ultimatum out: Kill me or they die. Even taunt that maybe the human god might be on their side and they'll be the 1% that survives. And I'll make the hot take. I want Clark to kill Zod. And I want it to stick. I want it to haunt Clark even as the Kents rebuild. I want Clark to stand over a grave he made for Zod and promise to preserve Krypton, the right way.

[@JamesAdams-nd1td]

Good gosh, in less than a page you just wrote a movie that is 1,000x better than this one. And I am so, so sad I’ll never get to see it.

[@WalkmanWillWalkAllOverYou]

Even as a Fan of Man Of Steel, I always felt it was a Couple Rewrites away from being a Fantastic Superman Origin Story. Your Version is what MOS could've been had it lived up to its full potential.

[@joeberryman3563]

If Superman could break Zod's neck, surely he could've knocked him out.

[@clipboss8052]

I'm just wondering were his freeze breath was the whole movie. *COULD HE NOT HAVE USED THAT?!*

[@joeberryman3563]

I want to agree with you desperately but if Supes just froze Zod in ice, Zod could just heat blast out again and we're back to square one. Definitely would've been nice to see him use it though.

[@russellharrell2747]

@@joeberryman3563 he shoulda used that weird plastic S he can throw FTL his chest. That always works

[@powerbad696]

Once Supes knocked out Zod,what then ??? Earth nor Supes have a means to contain/jail Zod,the super fight starts all over again.

[@russellharrell2747]

@@powerbad696 I dunno, find some kryptonite?

[@BronzeBoy520]

I have been waiting for this review since Linkara said he hated this film more than BVS. So, I’ll say this. You could make Clark killing Zod work. You really can. Portray it as an ACCIDENT and Clark is devastated he not only took a life, he just killed the last Kryptonian. Depressed, Lois gives him a speech about how not killing is good but he’s still a good man and who can inspire others to be better, because if he is the tomorrow for humanity, he should never forget he has to also work at this as well and he’s not perfect always. A way to have Lois be the one to inspire Clark after HE inspired her, to show humanity is on equal level to Clark when it comes to morality. But hey, you can also have Clark destroy a random thing and make a joke where a woman says he’s hot. You can do that!

[@orinanime]

Why do you have to make Superman Killing Zod "work"? It already works. There's nothing wrong with it as is.

[@invisiblefan2387]

I get what your saying. But for a lot of people (especially Snyder) killing Zod really isn’t bad.

[@S3rp3nte]

@@orinanime Agree, i think it would have been better if we simply that next scene with the general or better change it so that the tone its more serious so to avoid the mood whiplash.

[@orinanime]

@@invisiblefan2387 killing Zod is to be expected. Zod dies in basically every depiction he's ever in. And 9 times out of 10, it's Superman who kills him.

[@2jebeal]

What people don't know is that Superman had killed general zod before and the comic books he killed him and in Superman 2 do we not just see Superman literally through general zod and the bottom of the mountain in the final battle in the fortress of solitude he straight up murder him I don't see why people complaining about what Superman did there were other ways but this was the only choice he had and also the only time Superman didn't kill general zod was in Smallville season 9 when Clark defeated him in the final battle and sent him to the phantom zone

[@sidekicknick4152]

Another idea: Have Superman choke Zod until he loses consciousness. Maybe do it in a way that makes the audience think he just killed him, only for him to confirm he's still alive, then toss his unconscious ass into the phantom zone

[@tobsonasanya4765]

wasn't the phantom zone button destroyed?

[@sidekicknick4152]

@@tobsonasanya4765 If it was, I don't remember. But, then again, there's no reason they had to write it that way and it would have been an easy enough thing to fix when they were writing the script

[@joshheralal8758]

@@tobsonasanya4765 In the original script, Zod and company were to be sucked back into the Phantom Zone, Goyer rewrote it.

[@frogurtcremebrulee5252]

@@joshheralal8758 of course he did🙄

[@tonystark106422]

I think this was in conversation with Kevin Smith, I forget he was talking to. Wouldn't it be much more impressive if Clark put his hand over Zod's eyes and just took it? He just tanks the blast and keeps letting Zod hit him and hit him, because he refuses to let even one more person get hurt after all this? Let all the people in Metropolis see how far he's willing to put himself in danger just to save one life? Anything?

[@Donovaneagle2098]

The "this is an origin of how he became Superman" bit is much better done in the new Batman, where he had to learn compassion and kindness and to not just be vengeance.

[@galactic85]

It works better there because "The Batman" is a reconstruction. It directly challenges certain ways the character has been portrayed in the past in comics and film. The entire conflict is built around Batman fighting a version if the riddler that is revealed to basically be a dark reflection of himself. Its showing its version of bruce wayne a version if what batman could be and then proceeds to ask bruce, and by extension the audience, if we really want batman to behave like the riddler (who in the film is effectively a modern day klansman dressed in a military mask instead of a white sheet.) In Man of Steel, the story becomes a deconstruction because Superman has to act against the ways we traditionally expect him to act as a character and those choices are made to make the character "more relatable" instead of being used to ask us what kind of "hero" we want. Part of this is due to the nature of each respective character. Batman is a little more flexible than Superman. You can write him as a kind of superstar James Bond esque global adventurer, or a hardboiled detective. Batmans personality can fluctuate between angry violent vigilante or one more like Adam west's 'friendly father figure' take on the character. With Superman you can't really do that because he is the first superhero. If the story of man of steel was about Clark trying to be Superman and trying to protect the world In a certain way, only to encounter general zod and realize that despite his best intentions he was at risk of becoming an authoritarian just like zod, then that would be an interesting story. Instead we just get a movie that is structured like a by the numbers Superman vs general zod story except that Superman acts in ways ways we don't want Superman to act, many of which are downright immoral. The film then vaguely promises that he will 'grow Into the role' and then expects us to want to come back for a hypothetical sequel to see all that "growth" after alienating us from the central protagonist by making him kind of scary. The batman uses the structure of an origin story to interrogate the concept of batman and then push the character forward. Man of steel just makes Superman more immoral for no real reason other than trying to appeal to people who want a more edgy take on the character.

[@carlrood4457]

Lois & Clark: "Superman is what I can do. Clark is who I am."

[@Zivillyn]

I agree with you that Superman should never kill, but if we ignore that axiom for a minute, the scene where Superman kills Zod still doesn't work in this movie. We've seen that Supes has no problem with violence, no problem with being a petty asshole, and no problem with apocalyptic levels of collateral damage. We never see him say that he will never take a life. We never get a scene of him laying out to anyone the limits of what he is willing to do. We never get a scene where he establishes himself as this moral paragon for all to aspire to. So him killing Zod and then screaming in anguish does not hit like it should. Superman killing should hit the audience like sledgehammer to the teeth, but in order to do that we have to establish just how opposed to taking a life he is. So this scene is robbed of the emotional impact that the writers think they're getting. In order to get that impact, the writers have to convince the audience that Superman not killing is a rule of nature in the same way that light is the fastest thing in the universe is a rule of nature. They failed to do that. There's no way they could have made this scene right, but they could have made this scene impactful. I hate this movie for that.

[@SerenityM16]

That’s these versions of Superman in a nutshell, they assume we have very specific ideas of who he is going in and will hold up no matter what (not that unfair of an assumption I’ll grant), but this movie especially does a poor job of show don’t tell or even telling these things at all, they rush to the emotional climax while ignoring all of the necessary build up, say what you will about certain other reviews but Angry Joe screaming that they need to EARN Superman’s death is not an unjust reaction

[@joshpart3319]

Not only that, the scene (that for many reasons both in and out universe should be VERY impactful) has no real weight whatsoever. As Linkara says, the immediate next scene is a joke, and the fact that Superman had to kill Zod is never ever explored again, not in this movie, not in BvS, never; it has no impact on his character development, no impact on future stories, no impact on the worldbuilding, it's just Superman killing someone for the sake of having Superman killing someone.

[@tobsonasanya4765]

@@joshpart3319 do we really need to explore it

[@joshpart3319]

@@tobsonasanya4765 we didn't need Superman killing zod in the first place, but if you're going to put that in at least show it was for something other than shock value 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@tobsonasanya4765]

@@SerenityM16 i mean he comes back alive anyways

[@JaguarCats]

The first Superman movie staring Christopher Reeve hit the nail right on the head. When Clark's father died from a heart attack, he truly was powerless! We're given a line that highlights this! "All those things I could do, all those powers, and I couldn't even save him" In Man of Steel though....his father dies in a tornado....his adopted son is faster than a speeding bullet! Pretty sure he could had saved him without anyone noticing! And that is the key difference between these films. First one just did a better job explaining as to WHY Superman uses his powers for good! He shared with his father the frustration of hiding his abilities! How he could be the world's greatest athlete! And his father gives him this crucial piece of advice. "You are here for a REASON son, and it's not to score touch downs" He wasn't telling his son to never use his powers, but to use them for a far better purpose than self gain and ego! We even get a conflict between what his biological father tells him and what his adopted father tells him near the end of the film as Superman uses his powers to save Lois Lane. One memory says it's forbidden for him to interfere with human history, the other reminds him that he's there for a reason. Lastly in Superman 1978 we get that epic cry when Superman sees she's too late to save Lois....vs. that cry in Man of Steel when he was "forced" to kill Zod...One scenario, he was again powerless (at first) and another as Linkara says he wasn't short on options.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

All good points...I just wish the whole "spinning round the Earth to turn back time" thing was less stupid. Six year old me looked at that and thought, "Huh?" Even as it is in line with the themes you outlined above, it made no sense to me.

[@darkmyro]

​@@johnathonhaney8291 I took that to mean he was moving so fast he was going back in time and the world looked like it was going in reverse. Like yeah it looks like he's spinning the earth backwards, but that's not what's actually happening. Idk in my head that makes it a little less dumb.

[@AceSpadeThePikachu]

I love how 95% of this review could just be summed up as "It just raises too many questions."

[@garhdogoesgeek]

I think the action shot zoom that you mentioned from Galactica only ever works IN Galactica because the whole show was shot in the same way, creating a consistent visual tone and style. The juxtaposition of this style with other shooting styles in films like Man of Steel is why it doesn't work anywhere else.

[@TheMamaluigi300]

New Man of Steel tagline: “You’ll believe a man can fly, but you’ll no longer believe a man can think it's wrong to kill.”

[@davidziegler494]

A big problem with all the codex/genetic engineering stuff is that it tries to adapt bits of lore from Byrnes Man of Steel, without giving any thought to why those ideas were introduced in the first place. Byrne made Kryptonians sterile, have their children be born in birthing matrixes for two reasons: To emphasise the difference between cold sterile Krypton and bright rural Smallville and to create a better reason for Jor-El and Lara to stay behind than "we only had a small ship". Kryptonians in Byrnes mythos were genetically unable to leave their home planet because of something done to their species centuries ago. The only reason Kal-El was able to escape was that he was still in his birth matrix, in his womb, not actually born yet. That's why he had to go alone. That's why Jor-El couldn't save anyone else. Snyder instead turned him into a chosen one, the first natural born Kryptonian in ages untold and muddled through the reasons his parents couldn't leave with vague genetic programming malarkey.

[@Dynaman21]

I can see why DC is so…defensive about this. It’s still the best live action Dragonball Z movie ever made.

[@Launchpad05]

When A questionable 'Superman' movie is A better 'Dragonball' movie than 'Dragonball Evolution', you got A problem.

[@richmcgee434]

A staggeringly low bar to slither over.

[@yugoxgc]

There was a Live Action Dragonball Movie? 😐

[@Trevin_Taylor]

@@yugoxgc 2, actually

[@Dynaman21]

@@yugoxgc We don’t talk about it. It’s like Bruno.

[@buttherewasnojanus6637]

(Eternals Spoilers) 1:08:30 It's funny that you find this style of eye beams scary and powerful given how the same thing was used to pretty great effect in the Eternals. It's almost like that movie understood that it looks intense and intimidating more than anything else and actually used it to give some subtle foreshadowing for Ikaris, whereas Snyder just says, "Yeah, looks cool, throw it in!"

[@johnathonhaney8291]

I will always say that Eternals was Chloe Zhao's way of telling her good friend Zack (and they ARE friends, I'm given to understand) "Honey...THIS is how you should have done that." Never understood why Eternals got slimed while too many damn people overpraised Man of Steel...the former was far better written, directed and had better action sequences. It also was the first superhero movie in a long time to surprise me in ways that made sense.

[@dylansharp8471]

@@johnathonhaney8291 Made sense? Also, from what I've seen, most people weren't thrilled about Eternals because of certain story elements, plus the movie had 10 or so leads. I liked the movie myself, but I guess they probably could have benefited from a Disney+ show.

[@RedAnArticle]

On the Clark Kent vs Kal-El bit- I don't see why he can't just be both. Both sets of parents had a profound effect on him, and heritage is just as important as where you were raised. It makes Superman feel more 'American', reframing part of his story as an immigrant where he can be searching for his lost roots and still being happy in his new home. 'Superman Smashes the Klan' if you haven't read it is all about this and handles it really well while also being one of the best Superman books in the past decade. But then of course this movies says that can't happen because "Krypton had it's chance." :(

[@ForrestFox626]

That requires nuisance

[@shadowldrago]

@@ForrestFox626 I think you mean nuance.

[@BrandXK]

Funny how the guy who directed Man of Steel would probably be more at home directing a Manchester Black movie given his thoughts on superheroes.

[@shino4242]

And he would be totally oblivious to the fact that Chester was created specifically to show Superman is correct and play it straight like Chester is the one who's right.

[@RanguGamer]

They established that kryptonian atmosphere automatically depowers Clark and makes him vulnerable. They had to nonsensically take Lois in the ship just to have him bleeding and without his strenght after a breath... Why wasn't that for the ending? They should have preserved the old scout ship (which would become the fortress of solitude) and have Clark lock Zod in a room with kryptonian atmosphere, or in the stasis pod. Presented with the easy way out (killing), he would have thought of a more dificcult but moral solution, while preserving the antagonist for future conflict.

[@oswaldoandres8963]

ostia es el del superjueves

[@shino4242]

Because Hack Snyder wanted him to kill Zod. Like, fans have been coming up with various ways Clark didn't need to kill Zod right then for literally years. But it doesn't matter. Zack wanted Murderman.

[@Holly-khore-levina]

Other solution for Superman stopping Zod without killing him: have him get Zod in a rear naked choke or other sleeper hold. Have it be the greatest irony in the world that for all his new powers and supposed superiority as a genetically engineered general he still loses due to his perpetual tunnel vision and arrogance making him think some young punk that grew up on a "primitive world" would never be able to actually stop him. That Kal-El would loosen his grip or wouldn't be able to actually hold him in place long enough to make him pass out. Also while Supes is typically shown as being more a general brawler in most material having him use a combat technique- maybe even with a throwaway line like "Ma and Pa wanted to make sure I could stop a fight without breaking somebody-" could serve as a way to show that he can be smart and capable of some degree of restraining himself. A nod towards stuff like the world of cardboard speech he gave in Justice League.

[@shino4242]

I think the throwaway line makes it worse. Regardless of actual technique, such a thing LOOKS visually simple and the general audience doesn't need a quick exposition dump to explain what they just saw. And the only reason he's a "brawler" is because he's invulnerable. He doesn't need fancy footwork or to keep his guard up because he can't be hurt. I can't remember when, but in the past its basically been explained in comics that basically every member of the JLA (when it become supersized and not just the original 7) have basically all received some level of combat training from various other league members such as Wildcat and WW and the like. Obviously that's meaningless for this movie, just saying that its a bit of a misconception that Clark doesn't know how to fight. Besides, movie shorthand often just has you assume strong = knows how to fight. Im don't think most people would really question him head locking Zod into unconsciousness. Its a pretty believable suspension of disbelief. Again, this is just an long winded way of saying: I agree with you, just cut that needless exposition out. Its kinda clunky.

[@TheGoldenNeil]

A little while ago, I finished this novel called “It’s Superman!”, by Tom DeHaven, it’s a retelling of Superman’s origins (because of course it is), but very Golden-Age. And what I mean by that is that it’s literally a prequel set from the late 1920’s to just before Action Comics 1. I found it to be an amazing story that was very well told, and one of the things I loved about it was how human Clark was. I don’t mean “it makes him relatable,” either. I mean, at no point in the story does Clark find out he’s an alien. The closest he gets is his trying to write a sci-fi story based on a dream he has (implied to be memories from when he was a baby) that’s the classic origin, but that’s it. And throughout the book, it gives Clark a framework of “I’m a person who is a freak,” and he grapples with that the whole time, which made for great drama. Heck, he even travels across the country in the story to find himself and grows as a person, like Clark in MOS did, (though I find the book did it better, of course.) And Clark also struggles a lot with his powers in the book, not only in stuff like super hearing and eyesight, heat vision (which the book helpfully describes as “making his eyes feel gooey,) and flight, but also his strength, and how much he has to hold back. Heck, there’s a few instances where he kills people by accident (bad guys, all of them), either by deflecting a bullet, suddenly stopping a car, etc. It’s all things that make Clark feel guilty, but also teaches him how to control his powers. I think that this movie would’ve been much better off it took a lot of inspiration from the book. A lot less Christ and Savior imagery and more down-to-earth, human approaches to everything. Maybe it could’ve had Clark fighting a single Kryptonian, Zod, at the end, and it would be more evenly matched as Zod wouldn’t be used to his powers while Clark is but holding back, while also reassuring Clark is an alien and giving him something to really think about. It also would’ve made the title “Man Of Steel” make more sense, as Clark genuinely much more of a “man of steel” this time as he doesn’t know he’s an alien throughout. Anyways I haven’t finished the review yet… only 9 1/2 minutes in… I had a lot of thoughts, dang. PS this movie should’ve been called “Last Son Of Krypton” since that aspect is so important to the character here

[@er271]

Wow for years I’ve thought a period piece super man movie series set in the golden age 30s and early 40s would be amazing, and I thought if done right, superman would not discover he’s an alien till the sequel and not fight any aliens till the third movie, build up to the big world building event, not start a franchise with one I will definitely check out this book

[@leafruns7672]

I love your idea... but there would be a lot of comparisons to Dragon Ball and the beginning of Dragon Ball Z. Heck I would have liked to see your movie for that reason ^_^

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@leafruns7672 well I mean doesn't man of steel already have a bunch of comparisons to dragon ball already

[@leafruns7672]

@@jadenbryant9283 I never saw man of steel, the trailers put me off and no review changed my mind. From what I have seen from those sources, bits and peices here and there, sure. This super man is in great need of a Krillin though.

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@leafruns7672 or jimmy olsen too bad hes gone

[@Goodlordwhatshappeninginthere]

The Phantom Zone projector solution would be neat because it'd give Lois something to do in the climax. She retrieves the projector from the ship while Superman fights Zod, Zod looks to be winning the fight but right before he finishes Superman off Lois comes in from behind and banishes him to the Phantom Zone. And that way the problem is resolved in a way besides "Superman is just tougher than the other guy" which is always the least interesting way to possibly end a Superman story.

[@shadowninja222]

So I saw The Batman in theaters a few months back and my thought on it was, "Wow, this is Man of Steel done right!" Call me crazy, but both films focus on a superhero who's just starting off and eventually becoming a symbol of hope for the people. In The Batman though, I felt invested in the character and story throughout the film and found myself rooting for them. The film isn't perfect and it most likely didn't need to be three hours, but that didn't bother me as I watched it. I felt more hope and aspiration from The Batman than I ever did with Man of Steel. Heck, it says something when I found Shazam to be a better Superman movie than Man of Steel.

[@tcrpgfan]

Both Batman Begins and The Batman are better versions of MOS, but done differently. The former puts a strong emphasis on having Batman not kill his enemies, but asks 'At what point does that mindset stop you from preventing more damage than causing it?'(Which is basically the thing his enmity with the Joker is centered around) while the latter forces Batman to realize that he's not protecting the innocent, he's punishing the guilty and that actually makes him only barely above the thugs he fights in the eyes of Gotham (That's the point of the kid who lost his dad to the Riddler).

[@skibot9974]

I’d disagree with the idea of SHAZAM being a better Superman film than Man of Steel. Definitely a better film but Billy starts out very selfish even depositing an ATM clean which is very anti Superman

[@shadowninja222]

@@skibot9974 Fair point. Actually forgot about that moment myself. I was thinking more like how he develops by the end of the movie. Made him feel more like Superman to me than MoS Supes. Then again, that's not a high bar to beat.

[@ammagon4519]

Shazam really is just the best DC film in existence

[@parkerboy795]

@@shadowninja222 Not to mention, Dr Sivanna was a better Lex Luthor than the actual Lex Luthor of the DCEU. Hell, Lionel from Smallville was his father.

[@DalekTheSupreme]

Even in terms of Clark learning to be a less violent hero, we had a DC movie just this year where the hero learned to be less violent and angry, without ever killing anyone or picking up a gun. Even if that was the point, it's been proven now that we don't need him to kill to learn that lesson.

[@sugoiuseismoeabuse4058]

The Batman 2022?

[@shino4242]

Good people never need an excuse to not kill.

[@parkerboy795]

@@shino4242 Well Daredevil did struggle with that against Kingpin. Even his priest asked him in S1 if he was looking for an excuse to not kill him.

[@FaTerokiMenra]

We are here for you reviewing a technically still image when it comes to comics for most of your content so still frames are MORE than fine. Your comedy and insights are more important.

[@Ice-Climber]

Clark is not held back by his father. He was held back by Zack Synder and his worship of Ayn Rand.

[@tonystark106422]

I mean yeah, absolutely. Jonathan thinks Clark's powers will make him into something like Atlas. Jonathan doesn't want Clark to owe society anything. So he wants Clark to shrug. I hate Snyder's work. I really do.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@tonystark106422 I was once an admirer but I now share your hatred. Leaving aside the repugnant Ayn Rand worship, what kills it for me is he's a ripoff artist. When he has source material he can crib wholesale, like 300 or Watchmen, he can mask the fact that he has no original ideas. And any original scenes he thrusts into such adaptations are always the WEAKEST part of the film.

[@101Mant]

@@johnathonhaney8291 he still misses the point though, look at the fight scenes in Watchmen, they are often slick and cool but in the comic they are much more brutal and desperate. The "heroes" in Watchment are not supposed to be cool its supposed to be much more grounded and nasty its the whole point that in real life this stuff would be horrible.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@101Mant Further evidence of his dysfunctional storytelling, yes.

[@carlrood4457]

Even in the Pre-Crisis days, where his Kryptonian heritage was prominent, Superman still wasn't an outsider. He was loved and accepted by humanity, like an older brother who looks out for everyone. He was an "other" in the sense of , "Wow, he's the coolest." He wasn't a symbol of fear. Instead of taking cues from The Dark Knight, they should have looked to Captain America: The First Avenger. They embraced the "corny" aspects of Steve Rogers without making him naive or negating his heroism. I don't accept the "He's too powerful" argument. Just look what they did with Stark's armor in Infinity War. It was essentially magic in that movie. With Superman, you have to show that his powers can't do everything and it's his heroism and friendships that are his real strengths. It's not hard.

[@adamfreddo5703]

I think comparing the deaths of Jonathan Kent is fascinating because it just shows how important execution of a scene can be. Like I'm always impressed at how even though Jonathan gets only two scenes in the orignal movie I always get very choked up when he grabs his arm and goes "oh no", and that's just after one really great scene between him and Clark which could even be argued to be very rushed after just having that.

[@thelegoyousteppedon]

41:20 better speach John Kent : your right we're not your parents but you are my son

[@FNGLHR]

I think the use of shading to keep Superman in shadow was Snyder's attempt to make the suit black. He clearly hated the suit and wanted to prevent its use in his movies. It's why his cut of Justice League has him stay in the black suit even after he's ressurected. He feels the character was broken and the way to fix him was by emulating the things in the comics he preferred or thought were cool. Snyder gravitates to what he thinks is cool, which is death, violence and dark color palettes. It is plainly clear Snyder does not understand this character. He fundamentally does not understand superheroes or why people like them. Prefering to make them analogous to Gods of both contempary religion and myth. Because he absorbed the idea of superheroes being modern mythology far too literally and just keeps trying to emulate that notion through style rather than substance. And because he's clearly Christian, he views Superman primarily through a Christ-like lens, rather than the Moses parabell that fits better given he originated in the minds of two Jewish kids who were themselves sons of immigrants. And I could go on, how the movie's fight scenes are focused so much on being like Dragonball Z it ignores the obvious problem of Superman endangering people constantly by engaging his enemies in close proximity to innocents. How little Lois matters to things after her initial investigation which she kills. How little he spends on saving the lives of average citizens. How he seems almost annoyed by his obligation to save the people on the oil derrick. Like he's going to do it, but he's not happy about it. Superman only gets worse on that front in future films, more so if Snyder's full vision was completed, where he becomes agitated by the idea of being held accountable for his actions. But the origins of this comes from this movie, from this near Randian take of Superman just being naturally better than humans, emphasizing his godhood more than his humanity. Superman never remarks on being human, only being a kyptonian while others relate and talk up his godhood repeatedly. Superman is placed on this grand pedastal where he holds the world in his hand and hw everyone should fall to their knees in worship of him. It's a terrible film, and as a sort of comparisson to another character based on next week's review, when Godzilla in the 2014 came off as more inherently heroic despite only supposedly caring about killing maintaining balance in nature, you have fundamentally failed the character of Superman. Godzilla cared more about sinking US Air Carriers and stomp buildings he had partially flooded just by merely existing. Gareth Edwards had the king of the monsters, who causes a tidal wave that kills a lot of people, show more care and recognition of humans than Superman! And he's the actual God! It's in his name! Legendary Godzilla is a better hero than Snyder's Superman! And again, Godzilla has probably killed more people just from indifference than Superman has from his carelessness. Yet he still comes off as more heroic in those movies because he actually seems to give an iota of a shit more than Clark does!

[@johnathonhaney8291]

So, TL;DR, when it comes to superheroes, Snyder is culturally illiterate? Sounds right!

[@101Mant]

Well Synder is an Objectivist so he believes exceptional people should n9t be held back by having to follow the same rules. Its not near Randian, it is Randian. Remember Martha's horribly out of character bit about how he doesn't owe anyone anything? Superman in most recent incarnations fundamentally altruistic which goes directly against Objectivism. Its no surprise he doesn't get Supermen, or most superheroes.

[@tobsonasanya4765]

you saying godszilla cares more?? eh

[@silverbolt9439]

Don't get me started lol batman killing, Nightwing dead even though that's supposed to be Jason and so on. Just imagine if he directed Shazam he would be murking people left and right while being moody and edgy.

[@FNGLHR]

@@tobsonasanya4765 Godzilla cares for all of us equally, in that he wants to keep this planet we're on from dying. And in that regard, even if we are less than insects in his mind, at least he's doing his best not to step on us out of malice. We're just in the way sometimes and he doesn't notice us. He only goes after us when we provoke him.

[@solumanblevins5906]

The reason Toro's "At The Mountains Of Madness" was canned because Ridly's "Prometheus" happened and the financer's said it was both too similar and failed horriblly and were afraid of a similar result. Toro is still trying and I hope he eventually gets to do it, I'm tired Of every CoC product being ONLY Cthulhu related. He's like the Spider-Man of the Franchise, extremely popular but an extremely small part of his universe.

[@TF2Fan101]

Honestly, I hope Del Toro gets the chance to one day make Hellboy 3, because THAT is a series I’d like to see get a proper finale.

[@jamesatkinsonja]

Prometheus made 3 times it's budget so it didn't 'fail horribly' [and was Oscar nominated for visual effects] and while the reviews were polarising, they generally were positive [73% Rotten Tomatoes]. The Del Toro project was actually cancelled in March 2011 [apparently more of a reaction to it being R rather than the ideal PG-13], a year before Prometheus was released. Del Toro has several projects on the go at one time [see his wiki page for 'unrealised projects'] and many never see the light of day.

[@jamesatkinsonja]

@@TF2Fan101Ron Perlman in January this year was publicly encouraging Del Toro to do his 3rd film [ignoring the 2019 reboot] but Del Toro doesn't seem to have changed is February 2017 position it will 100% not happen.

[@ZoanBlade90]

I would oddly say check out "A Sucker For Love". Yes, it's a dating Sim parody, but it's a parody with Hastur (Sorry, Estir) and Nyalahotep (Nyanlahotep).

[@paulgibbon5991]

I would love to see it. MoM really stands out from other Lovecraft stories (and would be easier to adapt than most) because it's surprisingly un-xenophobic. The narrator feels sympathy for the plant aliens, admits they hadn't done anything he wouldn't have in their situation, admires their struggle to survive and even calls them "men of another age".

[@isenokami7810]

Okay, Linkara, I let all your opinions stew in my head a bit, and…my conclusion is that this movie as a whole committed a grave writing sin under the guise of being a reboot. One I have bashed other things for (particularly pony stuff, ask Viga about 2 4 6 Great someday), and as such I can’t let this slide now that I see it. Namely, sometimes writers have a seemingly great idea for an event or character development or whatever, but they just stop giving a crap in terms of getting characters to that point. Character development and continuity or practically ignored or simply handpicked, relevant characters acting out of character, essentially warped to fit the given plot’s needs, all in service of this “cool thing”. At which point, it’s not cool at all, it’s a bad story and needs to be scrapped entirely. Now, again, Man of Steel tries to hide behind being a reboot. Theoretically, they shouldn’t have to worry about screwing up development or continuity because they’re starting from scratch. But…they’re still using Superman, there are still key elements of the character you need to keep in some form. And they kept none of them. Granted, you’re more of the expert in this field, but this Superman and his supporting cast are so opposite to how they should be in any continuity, that the reboot defense fails outright. It’s just an excuse they used to, again, warp the characters into what they WANTED them to be. As it is, I still kind of enjoy Man of Steel, but I’m aware now that’s because, well, I’m not a comic book fan outside of your show. I don’t have the knowledge to know how backwards this movie is for myself. Now that you’ve shined a light on that, well…I still like it, but with the caveat that these characters just aren’t who they say they are. That’s not Superman, that’s not Jonathan Kent, that’s barely Lois Lane, that’s…okay, I kind of like this Zodd. Really hope you see this, Linkara. Just…once I realized the writers had used the new continuity as an excuse to throw out everything that made Superman who he is, I had to rant about it. I couldn’t not go off on that, not when I’ve been harsh on smaller works of fiction for similar sins.

[@shino4242]

"Character development and continuity or practically ignored or simply handpicked" Sadly, that's just comic books. Anytime a new writer or editor gets their hands on a character, or the leadership at DC changes the possibility of one or more characters changing/being inconsistent/retconning something/etc is always a possibility. Sometimes they are respectful of what came before them. Sometimes they are not. And as we've seen with Batman and the Rock and Roll hatred thing, even small little changes here and there can really make you start to raise some eyebrows. Linkara even called it out when he mentioned how he was sure some people were lining up in the comments to give examples of Superman killing and stating that sometimes the authors are just wrong. Geoff Johns is a decent exmaple of this. His work is typically pretty consistently good quality, but the dudes a retcon machine. He will make sure everything is FORCED to fit in the mold he created. The product may be good, but it probably spat in the face of what came before it for his own ends. Not saying all retcons are automatically bad of course. Just that if comics are consistent about one thing, its how inconsistent they are.

[@KertaDrake]

I feel like when it came to killing Zod, it should have been Lex barging in to be the hero! Establishing Lex Luthor as someone both ruthless and wanting the good PR while showing up the superhero who wouldn't kill even to save lives would have been a great start rather than what we eventually got!

[@TheMaestroMizerous]

*Offers you a jollyrancher*

[@jurassickaiju14]

That...actually would've been a neat take. Like instead of Emil Hamilton being the scientific consultant for the military, it's Lex, and him being at the forefront of dealing with the Kryptonians in MoS could give him some good clout for the Superman debate stuff in the sequel.

[@Neo232100]

I also don’t really like the aesthetics of the Kryptonian tech in this movie. I feel that the crystal aesthetic that the comics and previous movies had serves it so much better since it’s more interesting to look at.

[@mikegates8993]

Yup. Also funny enough, it looks more alien in my opinion.

[@Neo232100]

@@mikegates8993 Exactly, plus it's shown in multiple depictions as making basically holograms that people can interact with. Again making it come off as more efficient than the weird sand tech they have in Man of Steel.

[@legomaniac213]

But that would require having more colors than grey and brown! /s

[@AdonaiSaxon01]

Yeah I didn’t like the Kryptonian designs in MoS (PoS) it looks way too Giger esque with the strange shapes and gloominess. I should feel safe at the fortress of solitude not feeling like a Xenemorph is going to impale Amy Adam’s ass.

[@supersmashbro596]

"oh hey this isnt so bad-" *gets to the part where jonathan kent, the man who taught supes right from wrong, told him to let people die to keep his powers a secret.* NO. NO NO NO. if i were jonathan i'd have said "no, no, that's a terrible thing of me to say. you were good to save them, especially saving the one who bullied you. but try to be a little more subtle." maybe give clark the idea of having a dual identity.

[@samuelbarber6177]

Zack Snyder does not understand Superman, in my humble opinion. At least with a film like Superman IV: The Quest For Peace, I at least get a sense from that film the creators knew who Superman was. This version of Superman is… miserable. And he shouldn’t be. He’s Superman. What these films don’t understand is exactly that. His name is Superman. He’s not just a man of immense strength. He’s an enduring symbol of hope, peace and really all that is right with the world. That’s not saying you can’t do a dramatic Superman. The Christopher Reeve films did that well, particularly in part two. But those movies never lost sight of who he was. Whereas these films… I don’t think they ever had sight of who he is.

[@AmariieMaerthos]

I haaaaaaaaated this version of Jonathan Kent. The one from Smallville was much better. He valued Clark's safety and secret, but never to the level of "Let the little bastards drown."

[@infinityalbi9840]

Thank you so much for mentioning how the Weadon Cut had the most accurate Superman in this universe. It's something I've been saying for years as one of the only defenses for that movie and I'm glad it's a sentiment I don't have alone.

[@Crazyivan777]

Re: Mountains of Madness - Del Toro did, in fact, put together the story and such for the film. It being Lovecraftian, it would've gotten a hard 'R', or possibly an NC-17 rating. The studios told him he had to trim it down for them, and he bid them a polite 'eat my shorts'. He even made a great statement about how not flinching to studio demands is the only real power you have to keep your creative vision alive.

[@AlSidre]

Yah I can see why he would object to having his work messed with.

[@paulmahoney7619]

I hope it gets made sometime, At The Mountains of Madness is honestly my favorite Lovecraft story.

[@AgentHeroic]

On the flipside, we DID get Pacific Rim in the end, so that was pretty awesome.

[@bthsr7113]

It's lovecraft, A hard R is entirely appropriate unless you're reworking the story to refute the cosmic horror and show humans prevailing over a watered down version of the threat. Mind you, that's not entirely a bad thing as I rather like the idea of refuting the

[@ghidorah15]

@@bthsr7113 So basically, _Ghostbusters: At the Mountains of Madness_ is what it'd be?

[@DoctrDoc]

I do love how we live in an age where a review of a movie can almost be longer than the movie itself.

[@Tareltonlives]

Except for the Snyder Cut of Justice League. No review can be THAT long

[@kingofthegundam7974]

@@Tareltonlives *ahem* MauLer's "reviews" tend to be rather long.

[@Tareltonlives]

@@kingofthegundam7974 True; he accurately replicates how long the movies FEEL to watch. And that's not really a good thing.

[@mikegates8993]

@@Tareltonlives I actually think Kinda Funny's review of the Synder cut might be as long as, if not a little longer then, the movie itself.