The Fatal Flaws of Modern Horror Games Rant

[@Mangakamen]

Hey guys, if you enjoyed the video, please leave a comment or a like, times are tough atm, and any and all support you guys can give will help out - Even if it's just leaving a comment or like - It helps push the video and in turn, helps me. Also, be sure to join the Public Discord: discord.gg/8xxXQmnmmA And follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/Manga_Kamen So you don't miss on my uploads, since youtube doesn't wanna remind you guys when I upload.

[@barrybend7189]

I'm not a fan of horror games. Dead Space freaks me out. But I would like to see your thoughts.

[@calery5714]

I have a few Horror Games I like Silent Hill 2 and 3 or ObsCure other than that i don't play many horror games.

[@davidsanchez4929]

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out but there is a weird dialog cut around 24:03. Hopefully this doesn't come across as nitpicking I really found this video interesting.

[@Lunk42]

@@davidsanchez4929 I was wondering what happened there too.

[@OmegaKudo118]

My favorite horror game is Eternal Darkness Sanity's Requiem and the only horror game I played (not sure if it counts) Prey

[@hilotakenaka]

Game: _Deals with child murder, domestic violence, child abuse, depression, gore and workplace exploitation_ 7 year olds: "Ayo this shit is lit"

[@sethisevilone02]

Then they latch on and proceed to corrupt the fandom and give it the "children horror game" reputation

[@bloodreapertv877]

@@sethisevilone02 a sad fate for a game I once loved 😔

[@sleepylmguy9968]

Tbh Fnaf still have most of that in it. I mean the whole point of SB is that you’re a young boy trying NOT to get killed in a mall where everything wants to either eat you, bite you, claw you, slice you or all the above.

[@jacksonspitsfax4526]

Me with the original fnaf

[@testedcatgaming7714]

@@jacksonspitsfax4526 Bruh same

[@fuzzynuttz5092]

In my opinion the major flaw is trying to keep marketing it as horror for kids. The best example of this is comparing the first FNAF game to security breach

[@piranhalettuce]

FNAF kind of reminds me of Friday Night Funkin and how both of them weren't meant for kids, but kids started to play and talk about both games and now they're just seen as kids games by most people.

[@kenlee4356]

The same thing sorta happened to gta5

[@Burger19985]

@@SergioLeonardoCornejo bendy was scary? that shit was the epitome of a tuber game

[@Burger19985]

@@SergioLeonardoCornejo but blair witch was frustrating in walking in circles

[@MYWALLS]

I completey agree because fnaf and fnf werent actually meant for kids yet kids still played it because there favorite youtuber played it and companies like the ones that developed poppy playtime realized that they can captialize off of dumb childern that would watch/play anything you give to them as long as you have bright colors. hell the company that owns poppy playtime have a channel that produces kid content using there own characters. While i find no problems with stuff being marketed towards children it kinda just ruins old time fans of the series that enjoyed it or just older fans example: fnaf security breach.

[@VanguardJester]

"They don't feel indie. they feel AAA. and that's not a compliment." Couldn't have said it better.

[@marcellorossilermen2997]

I mean to be honest resident evil is kinda cool

[@Kira-pv4xq]

@@marcellorossilermen2997 there’s nothing wrong with triple a games, they wanna make good games for some money, but the problem is when they become too greedy. Don’t worry Resident Evil is great and not greedy.

[@wastelandlegocheem]

Hmm what's the worst AAA game is now in my head

[@1970Camaro]

Deltarune also already had a pre-established audience via Undertale.... makes way more sense to have merch already for that, whereas with Poppy Playtime it was an entirely unknown new game

[@Kyumifun]

Making Undertale first was really impactful on Deltarune's success. The game already gained an audience and Toby learned a lot from UT on how to develop a game and how to lead a franchise. UT was pretty much a warm up for what was coming out later.

[@SemiHypercube]

@@Kyumifun since I think Toby mentioned having ideas for Deltarune before he started Undertale I feel like he might have _intended_ for Undertale to get an audience and attention, and the success ended up being more than what he meant for

[@jamon8139]

Not only that there was already an audience, but Undertale is one of the most beloved indie games probably ever, and by extension Toby Fox is very well thought of for his work, the idea that Toby would make a game intended to sell merchandise first and be a game second is laughable when looking at just how much love and care he pours into his works. He consistently goes above and beyond to make every detail of his games richer so there's no reason not trust him or question his motives.

[@daanstrik4293]

Not to mention how deltarune is FREE. Even if he makes it a complete cashgrab (which its obviously not) you can't really be mad about a free product being bad.

[@mousesteam7882]

@@jamon8139 I feel it's not to make a market, but to be the manual for deltarune, It allows him to brake established rules with much more impact

[@lethalethan07]

I personally think that Little Nightmares, Subnautica and DDLC are some of the best examples of actually good modern indie games with a spoop factor, but that’s just my opinion.

[@chazzilla8919]

Bloodborne is indie?

[@Why_not_now356]

@@chazzilla8919 no, that’s AAA baby

[@chazzilla8919]

@@Why_not_now356 dude edited his comment, he included bloodborne before

[@Why_not_now356]

@@chazzilla8919 Bruh, now I look like the that guy even though I’m not guy pal, trust me I’m not that guy.

[@chazzilla8919]

@@Why_not_now356 aw man lol

[@maskedsteven5257]

This is a legitimate concern. If we want to keep indie horror games alive, we seriously need to start pushing the boundaries of "spoopy smiling toy things ahhh"

[@Noelle_Holiday]

Honestly, I'm just gotta say that a lot of those indie horror games (especially Poppy Playtime) felt somewhat reminiscent of Don't Hug Me I'm Scared, in which both features innocent cartoon-looking characters and colorful environment that seemingly might be appropriate for children on the surface but eventually turns out to be quite disturbing, alongside a higher emphasis on getting people to keep theorizing about the story itself. Ironically enough, the difference is that DHMIS wasn't actually meant for children at the slightest.

[@bluemagician9724]

The issue is the cycle: 1. Horror game parodies * thing * 2. Horror game gets popular because youtuber 3. Horror game gets popular with the demographic that * thing * was meant for 4. Said demographic treats the game as being * thing * in itself Seriously though, it seems nearly every big horror game since the good old days of anime RPG horror games has been le sp00ki parody of something or other, I mean even Fran Bow could be considered a parody of Alice in Wonderland and Inscyption a parody of trading card games, only original concepts that ever blew up were games like Layers of Fear and Among the Sleep

[@jackknifevideoworks]

@@bluemagician9724 you actually have a good point with that..

[@imreallybadatnamingthings]

I'm glad I'm not the only person who's tired of the "oooOOOOOoooo it would normally be for children but it's sCaRy oooOOOoooOooOooOoo" I'm not even into horror but I want to be scared of something traditionally scary, not something that would be embarrassing to say out loud like "Huggy Wuggy" or something.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

@@bluemagician9724 The problem is that it’s extremely hard and nearly impossible to be original nowadays when nearly everyone has already seen or did that concept previously. Hell, even Layers of Fear is essentially just Silent Hills P.T., while Little Nightmares felt like Coraline mixed with Spirited Away and the City of Lost Children. Personally, I feel like it’s much better to take inspiration from different works that you’re passionate about, all while adding your own interesting twist to make it more original and developing your game the best you could possibly can.

[@kingbash6466]

I don't mind there being horror games aimed at a younger audience. I still adore stuff like Luigi's Mansion. However, what I do have a problem with these modern horror games is that they feel like they're following trends that was established through FNAF. Keeping the lore intentionally vague so theorycrafters on KZbin can go nuts, ltwisted something associated with childhood, and having a marketable mascot to carry the merchandise sales. Even FNAF itself fell into it's own trends with Security Breach being aimed at a way younger audience.

[@HeyRavenousRaven]

Oh man, Luigi's Mansion! I could replay that game forever and ever (on the original Gamecube) and never get tired of it. The lore is left vague and to interpretation to the player. Allowing the player to just play the game while giving them a slight more motivating reason to find Mario while also staying interested.

[@Kuraiko-nn4cl]

Whenever I see a vague backstory/ lore in a game, I always wonder if it is actually a good implementation to keep it ambiguous, or if the developers just couldn't be bothered to give it an actual story, relying on the players to make sense of everything instead.

[@Yan_Alkovic]

Luigi's Mansion is different, though. It's not strictly speaking a brand-new IP that "popped" out of nowhere, since it had to work within a well-established "kid-friendly" universe it didn't have much choice but to be the PG13 version of horror. Also Luigi's Mansion is perfect and amazing and wonderful and lovely and it's on a different plane from everything that Mangakamen mentioned here

[@googleplier925]

This has never been more true and I hate it

[@vinegar4556]

I honestly see Luigi's Mansion more as being a family-friendly game, whereas a lot of these recent games are specifically aimed at young children, with very little to grab older audiences.

[@michaelcooper3126]

Matpat even made a video about how theory channels like his have negatively impacted indie horror games like Hello neighbor and such, which is sad to see since you can tell that he loves making these theories.

[@psychotophatcat]

I think the thing with MatPat is that he really is just in it for the fun of it, for "what if" suggestions, "that's just a theory!" But people took his videos way more seriously than he really intended and other people tried to replicate his success in the wrong ways. They want to be the first who uncovers the "one true lore" instead of just having fun talking about possibilities.

[@MontycelA]

@@psychotophatcat Yeah, it really does suck.

[@BrightWulph]

@@psychotophatcat I agree, I may not like or even side with him with all of his theories and sometimes he comes off as a bit of a self-righteous prick in his tone. But I do agree that he's only theory crafting for fun, and not to be taken seriously. Like when he talked about the scraped AR game, and then had to release a statement asking viewers not to go to irl locations or bother people about a scrapped FNAF AR game. Like he seemed genuinely shocked that he had to literally spell it out for people.

[@hanakoisbestgirl4752]

That's a big reason I'm actually kinda glad hello neighbor kinda went down the drain and no one is talking about 2. They tried way too hard to chase the fame. The whole twitter ordeal with @ ing matpat telling him to watch their show constantly. Baiting the theories with all the satanic references that amounted to absolutely nothing in the end. Pretty much admitting they changed stuff because matpat guessed stuff right... hello neighbor just got broken in the gameplay department because they got way too caught up in the theorists and getting videos made about them. I feel like Hello Neighbor could have been good IF they ignored the theories and stuff and just focuses on the game and lore. I think some horror indie dev, maybe scott, at one point stated he didn't watch theory videos because he didn't want to be influenced by them but maybe it wasn't scott because we know he's watched at least one matpat theory video based on his comment that he deleted. I dunno, thought he said that he avoided them in the dawko interview though.

[@Robin-234]

Definitely. And I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of gametheory anymore. I stopped watching his videos a few years back but, there was always this atmosphere among his audience that was so extremely present (in the comment section especially): they took everything way too seriously. Despite the fact that each video ends with "that's just a theory" and if it's a more stretched out one he would even say that it's just a creative thought or something they would take *everything* and absolutely take it as gospel or tear it to shreds.

[@tostibroodje7525]

About the Huggy Wuggy plushies, they're literally everywhere somehow and I just can't wrap my head around why. I first saw them when I was on vacation in Croatia, they were products in the souvenir stores. And then when I got back home to the Netherlands, I started seeing them everywhere too, not just in toystores, but in bookstores and other places too. I got most confused at the bookstore, so I started loudly talking to my friend about how weird it was that they were being sold everywhere, and that I thought barely any workers there know what they're selling. Then a lady who works at the store came up to us and told us she thought the plushies were hideous and she didnt know why they were ordered by the store. And then she also went on to say they didnt even sell well. So, that's my 2 cents on the huggy wuggy plushy pandemic😅

[@annyshkilionok2680]

Right? I live in Vilnius, and I have to walk by some tourist traps every day, and there are windows filled with those ugly-ass things. God I honestly almost think games should be gatekept at this point, because what is this bs

[@fireboythestar3455]

Dude im on vacation in Croatia rn and im also seeing these things in shops

[@elladoros]

legit i have had enough of these its understandable if they sold that at bazaars with bootleg stuff but i even saw one at a souvenir store of a town in germany

[@tostibroodje7525]

@@elladoros It's so funny to see them at souvenir shops. Because rhe entire stall will have funny hats and nice bags to represent the country for example. And then there's that hideous beast, just hanging in between all the better souvenirs. Completely lost

[@elladoros]

@@tostibroodje7525 i wasnt that shocked to see it at a turkish supermarket in my town but the fact that town souvenir shops, IN GERMANY, sell it is shocking. I even saw it being sold at a german-american festival????? just wtf

[@SootSprite04]

Gametheories are fine in my opinion. But they shouldn't have influenced the genre as much as they did. FNAF was a lighting in a bottle moment. You can't create that again. Especially by catering to the theorists. Notice in FNAF the gameplay was first (most of the time), and lore was second?

[@mathis8007]

Matter of fact the lore was completely skipable and cryptic so you could finish the whole game and still be missing something of the story . Scott made , as you said, great game first then added great story pieces

[@ukaszwalczak1154]

Matpat himself said that, the game devs don't have to chase that game theory video, cuz they just need good lore, and story-

[@cloudshines812]

I’d like to argue that even certain games are guilty of that like Kingdom Hearts. The first three games had proper stories to tell but focused on being fun games at their core. After KH2, Numora basically started to lie out of his ass and make an overcomplicated story with so much lore and forget to actually make the games fun and enjoyable. That’s why the original PS2 trilogy of KH games are lightning in a bottle moments

[@nolyfe4814]

@@cloudshines812 that wasn’t all his fault though, he never intended to make more then 1 game. Kingdom hearts gained more popularity then he ever anticipated. As good as the first three games were the first one had scenes where they spoke cryptic bullshit.

[@cloudshines812]

@@nolyfe4814 That’s true. I’m not going to sit here and pretend Kingdom 1 was “perfect” in terms of storytelling, but after the original game, the game did include a special teaser for Kingdom 2 if you 100%ed the game. Kingdom 2 was meant to being built up as a bigger sequel than the original but after that, there was no plans to continue. Even though the Final Mix version did include the teaser for BBS, the franchise never had plans to continue and it was just the director and writers lying out of their ass, screwing up canon and Disney’s oversaturization is what no longer made Kingdom Hearts into the game that was respected, but just a brand and joke like FNAF

[@gamingraptorpro1800]

They are to reliant on lore rather than story and I'm sick and tired of people thinking they are the same thing.

[@barrybend7189]

For example Dead Space had lore but it was at the service of the gameplay. Like the locations purpose being integral to either the enemy type or the tools to use around you. These games are more haunted mansion style rides with minor game elements added in.

[@gamingraptorpro1800]

@@barrybend7189 no I'm talking about the fact that the story doesn't exist in these games because the lore keeps swallowing it whole. Lore is homework, it's worldbuilding. Story is what comes out of the lore, it is what is happening now. Lore is not Story.

[@barrybend7189]

@@gamingraptorpro1800 oh sorry. I miss thought what you meant. Though we both touched on a similar thing these games share. Focusing on areas that are not integral to the core gameplay. As said in Dead Space there is lore but it's there to be an explanation or extension of the main level information. In first scanning you get the required info like purpose, damage/infestation and available tools but in closer looks you get to see what it was like before the horrors arrived. These games Mangakamen talks about in this video only have the setting as a window dressing while they expect the lore to crutch up the lack of story.

[@themonarchofbaddecisionmak1405]

wait,can you explain the difference if you don't mind? I'm a bit confused.

[@QueenOfDarknes5]

@@themonarchofbaddecisionmak1405 Story is it when it followes the main character as an example searching in the woods to find your missing daughter, infiltrating an insane asylum as an reporter to get information, fighting to prevent the zombie apocalypse. Things happen because the Main character acts and reacts. Lore is the world building, you find pieces of paper, audio journals that explain what happened to other people, you learn the rules of the world, side charackters explain their story. Example: Outlast 2 You play as reporters investigating a death of an young woman, you have an accident and your wife is captured and you try to save them. That's the story. You play it activly and have reasons to do what you do. The Lore is the information you can gather while progressing the story. The meaning behind the flash backs, what made the people crazy, the storys of the villagers and their sick religion. You could ignore the Lore and still feel that enough happened, fiding things out is just the seasoning to make the story better. In Poppy playtime you have the attempt for a story with the letter from the start but the MC didn't really do anything and just goes along with whatever happens. He is not activly searching and not activly fleeing, just doing things. You can't say finding the missing people is a story because chapter two is about getting out of the fabric after freeing Poppy for no reason. It has Lore, the side charackters backstory and some clues in the surrounding. But you have no story, no reason why the MC does anything. Nothing happens except running in the direction the game wants you to to get more backstory.

[@hikarisora2661]

In my opinion horror for kids isn’t the problem to an extent. I think the major problem is when they try too hard to be marketable and relying way too much on KZbin and theory crafters to make sense of their lore. I’ve never played a horror game yet but I would like one that relies on the player going out of their way to explore even if it is more difficult. Edit: Thanks for the game suggestions I’ll check them out when I have the time.

[@anubisean]

Silent Hill had the early theory crafters so basically as long as there are fans in horror games there will be people using time and energy to make things sense or worse forcing head-canon.

[@adamvancleave9200]

Also making the "monsters" as toyetic as possible.

[@testedcatgaming7714]

horror for kids can really work, look at Coraline, it's awesome! But video games just don't get it, the games aren't even made for children (with T ratings) and have things that kids probably shouldn't see, it feels like it' should be made for teens and older but yet it tries to be for kids. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[@fusrosandvich3738]

Amnesia: The dark descent seems like it would work well for you.

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

Personally I don't think the theory crafting is as much of an issue as people may think it is. Even among more mature horror games, theory videos are popular without hurting a series' horror image. I think the bigger issue with kids horror is that whether intentional or unintentional, the community would often make the franchise less scary by making the characters cute. Even back when the first FNAF game came out (and before Scott Cawthorne made the "cutesy" FNAF World) while there would be plenty of scary fan made content, there was also a bunch of fan made content depicting these killer animatronics as cute, and innocent. Poppy's Playtime made this problem even worse when the official developers themselves supported all kinds of various merchandises that make the characters appear more cute. Such as the plushies mentioned

[@mattwo7]

2:48 I personally find psychological horror to be the highest form of horror. The horror doesn't come from simply a black and white robotic despair bear, geometrically-headed butchers or a creepy puppet with red spirals on its cheeks, it comes from existentialism, from the idea that anyone in the wrong situation could behave that way.

[@mattwo7]

@@thecod2345 That kind of goes hand in hand with psychological horror, the villains will try to bring the protagonists down to their level, make them feel like they don't have a choice, Danganronpa has this in spades because of its themes of despair and hope, I'm sure Saw has it in spades too but I haven't seen those movies and I'm not sure about other franchises like Silent Hill because I know even less about them. When done right it can be great, when done poorly, it's just a shortcut.

[@mattwo7]

@@thecod2345 I think being hunted by a person The Most Dangerous Game style is a lot scarier because not only is humanity the most dangerous game, it's also the most dangerous predator.

[@alexbrinzan9061]

Im more into real helplessnes like the one in CRY OF FEAR you have weapons ,you can run and you can dodge ,dualwield,but that doesnt mean that you are in an action game , reloading doesnt give you your ammo back if you reload on say 7 bullets you loose those bullets and put in a fresh clip, it makes you weary of how many you need to kill the next enemy or if you encounter more than one you kinda fuked so you have to think what you have to do, also you cand reload while dual wielding( also dual wielding is mostly used to have the phone light and the glock out at once so you can properly fight) but when you reload you will be in complete darkness ,or fight with your meele. The runner mosters move like they are on every drug in existance and move so eratically that they twich and sidestep you cant get a clear shot, there are many more and the ones that really stuck with me are the women with blades for libs who even after you shott or smack them enough dont die like the others. They stab themselvs in the neck and keel over while screaming, it doesnt give you the feeling that you won, just that you survived. It goes much deeper than this and i hope i got your interest cuz ITS FREE ON STEAM so you can play it too,do note tho that it is over 10 years old so dont look that much at the grafics.

[@mattwo7]

@@alexbrinzan9061 Two words: Paragraph. Breaks.

[@alexbrinzan9061]

@@mattwo7 yeahyourrightbrosorry.

[@Our_Remedy]

Horror should not seek to constantly put you into fight or flight. The longer you can keep someone in anticipation of something going wrong, the better.

[@CLaVitre]

Exactly, a horror game shouldn't rely on constant jumpscares to put you into fight or flight. It's like if a clown tickles you to make you laugh at his joke...

[@Our_Remedy]

@@CLaVitre An excellent piece of game design in this regard is SCP-106 from SCP: Containment Breach. It's a creature that, every couple of minutes while playing the game, starts spawning directly underneath you. Makes you constantly worried that you're never safe, and makes you always think of where you're going to have to run to get away.

[@NanaIsMyNickname]

That's why Amnesia is so good

[@Our_Remedy]

@@NanaIsMyNickname Exactly. It holds back on making actual threats, and simply makes you super uneasy. Doesn't even let you get the relief of dying since the AI avoids killing you unless you REALLY fuck up

[@cloudshines812]

The first 10 minutes of both Outlast and Outlast 2 NAILS this (no pun intended). That moment of anticipation for the first two scares do get me from time and time again. Its just a shame that the rest of the game doesn’t follow that same formula for the next 2 hours

[@highfivepaw]

I remember being on a train last year, I was minding my own business when I suddenly heard a kid who sounded 6-9 years old, and he was explaining to his mum was bendy and the ink machine was. I heard him say “the crazy man has escaped from the tv and now he wants revenge and wants sacrifices” the mother sounded so concerned

[@Noelle_Holiday]

This sounds like something from either Little Nightmares II or The Binding of Isaac.

[@cloudshines812]

If I met that kid, I would just give him a cursed tape, tell him to press play and wait seven days until a girl comes out the TV and fucks you up

[@hondaaccord1399]

I try to think, "Well at least they aren't getting into creepypasta and proxy culture" and then I realize that Bendy was literally gateway content for people...

[@Excelsior1937]

That's not a problem

[@yourlocalsnakewithahat1639]

@@Noelle_Holiday ayo i nearly forgot of the binding of issac, both games are sooo god and underrated, sadly...

[@amirgarcia547]

Honestly I think Poppy’s Playtime is emblematic of every issue with modern horror games. Despite its issues, BATIM feels like it was designed to be a horror game from the get-go, just with more of an emphasis on classic cartoons than killer animatronics. But from the overemphasis on merch, the cutesy designs and pitiful attempts at lore, PP is clearly trying to cash in on the same crowd as FNAF without knowing what made FNAF great to begin with. That being Scott tried to make a horror game first and foremost with strong atmosphere and genuinely creepy antagonists, instead of making the brand first and having the game revolve itself around it. Plus the creators support NFTs and cyberbullied someone into nearly taking their life, so they don’t deserve even the slightest bit of success even with how creatively bankrupt they are.

[@arnerippey3677]

Why did they bully them?

[@CobRaM4tRIX]

@@arnerippey3677 it was a couple years back, most of the people involved were teenagers if I remember correctly, though the "victim" was 13-14 or something like that. It essentially boils down to childish bullying within an animation community. I'm pretty sure there was never a direct reason for why they bullied them and took advantage of the fact that the "victim" was a fan. Just simple childish "this guy's weird let's fuck with him lmao". The only time it started to matter though was when a fair amount of aspects with Poppy Playtime coincidentally felt very similar to a game the "victim" released. And, when called out by the "victim", started to show that the bullying and scummy-ness of the devs was beyond age and was just genuine immaturity even a few years later. Basically, they were just being dicks for the sake of being dicks, then they never fully let go of it even after it all kinda "passed".

[@HydragonofDeath]

@@CobRaM4tRIX From what I can tell from videos I've seen they bullied him because he turned down an offer to work for them so they more publically started bullying him, although they were making fun of him in their discord before they had offered to hire him in the first place.

[@Snow-xd4rv]

Also BATIM was inspired from Bioshock, which isn't a horror game, some aspects of its story might be though

[@Snow-xd4rv]

You think Poppy Playtime doesn't have good horror but then tried to say BATIM was good? Poppy Playtime has had some good horror elements, mainly the vent chase scene and Mommy turning crazy. There's no aspect of horror in BATIM that was memorable(the game was barely horror, just cheap jumpscare), and I was obsessed with BATIM when it first came out, so I know all this stuff

[@naciabell7903]

Fun fact about security breach. If you look up the dev interviews and their responces on how the game was developed? it explains a LOT. The biggest of which being, that THEY didn't know what the hell was going on in the story, cause Scott didn't acutally tell them what the plot even WAS. Just what to put into the game, without explaining it. Cause that's just how he does FNAF games. Obivously that works ok when he's doing them solo and on smaller scale games. But he was working to make a big, open world, exploration game and with a studio. And that lead to so many problems the game wound up having. Relying on vaugeness and hints to tell your story can be a huge problem. And Security Breach proved that. Espically given how the game was gutted from it's original much darker and bloodier premise due to Scott's well...Everything. And Sadly, most indie horror games saw this and thought 'Oh hey we can do that to and get the same results!' ANd thus we got hello Neighbor and others.

[@TheOnlyCelciAndDontYouForgetIt]

Hello Neighbor came out WAYYYY before SB... That being said i agree that SB lowered the bar substantially

[@Snow-xd4rv]

You can blame Scott, but you also gotta blame Sony too, cause they had a special deal to get SB released on Playstation, so they had some say in things too, and considered the mention of blood was censored in SB, I feel like Sony had a say in censoring stuff, because the word, blood isn't even that scary and has been mentioned and seen in FNAF before.

[@krounos1]

@@Snow-xd4rv You cannot just blame the publishers. Game devs typically have a lot more freedom in the choices made than is given.

[@Zender22]

@@krounos1 They really don't Gearbox was forced to add their games (Borderlands) to Epic by 2K and never wanted that, but they were forced to by the publisher The publishers are typically investing in the game and if it isn't to their liking they will simply find a new developer It's a very messed up world right now for gaming

[@drekiskrek5008]

@@krounos1 That's literally not true at all lmao. Look at anything published by EA

[@ilikebeanies3499]

I miss the way FNAF used to be. I miss the bloody-eyeballs death screen, the linear, simple, and arcade-like structure to the game. (Which fits the setting FNAF takes place in) And I miss the visceral implications, which Sister Location did really well. Here are my favorite violent moments of FNAF: - The Bite of '87 in FNAF 4 - Getting Scooped in FNAF:SL - Being burned in Pizza Sim - Purple Guy decaying in UCN - Even though you don't see it, Purple guy's death by Springlocks - The deaths of the original 5 kids, not shown but really brutal. - The visible dead body withing SpringTrap, recurring even in SB I want more violence, more blood out of the series. I'm not even a big fan of shit like that, but it just makes the game better imo to see gore. Without it, you get a kid game like SB where you don't see anything too spooky. Poppy Playtime is more bloody! XD

[@doodlejone6546]

Yes if you compare fnaf to security breach, the horror level is completely different. Security breach didn’t scare me at all and I was a little disappointed with that. Og Fnaf was so dark and everything about it was scary, the models were super creepy and the office gave you an uncomfortable vibe, sb feels like it’s scared to frighten people too much, and every room is lit! At the end of the game I was like “well it’s not a horror game but it’s kinda cool” lol

[@ilikebeanies3499]

@@doodlejone6546 Only scary things were the Endos in SB. The "only move when looking away" shit is always terrifying. Too bad the MAIN ANIMATRONICS weren't scary XD. Seriously, people are too busy simping for the animatronics to be scared LMAO. Also, the jump scares are lackluster... Remember FNAF 4?? Remember how every jumpscare made you (and Mark) shit your pants in fear? Security Breach jumpscares are about as scary as the jumpscares from my 11 year old sister when I exit my room.

[@boppitybippitybop1829]

Security breach just felt like fan service for the fatherless out there.

[@ilikebeanies3499]

@Dustyjazz _ I've never watched a single trailer for FNAF, ever. XD So I didn't know this, I usually liked going into the game 100% blind

[@OwmanderOruboOficial]

Just read the books, there is more scary and visceral themes around the animatronics, deaths, and concepts.

[@sinom]

If you want to look at really cool horror game communities look at 95% of the games ManlyBadassHero plays. They're passion projects by small teams or single developers and while none of them are huge, they're all great in their own way. An example would be all of the games with demos on the haunted PS1 demo disk or just the people behind sauna Simulator 2000

[@beanqueen1927]

oh man that one he did on Pumpkin Head gave me nightmares for days. He definitely finds the good games

[@PixelatedChicken33]

It Steals is really good!

[@OnyDeus]

I've been binging on ManlyBadassHero lately and it's really opened my eyes that there's more than just FNAF and poppy out there. When it's KZbinr bait he calls it out and when it's good you'll get a 2 hour playthrough.

[@atanaZion]

@@beanqueen1927 God nightmares with that shit??🤣🤣

[@beanz2993]

He's one of my fav youtubers too. The games he play are pretty underrated.

[@aircraftcarrierwo-class]

"Twisted nostalgia" horror is definitely getting oversaturated. The trend will eventually burn out and dial back, they always do.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

Seems like the whole oversaturated “mascot horror" trend is going through the same phase as Creepypastas did a couple of years back, which keep in mind eventually contributes to Creepypasta's downfall. I mean, stuff like Jeff the Killer fanfictions where emo teenagers are being put through ludicrous amounts of trauma, suffering some kind of Body Horror, and turning into supernatural serial killers, haunted video game creepypastas akin to Sonic.EXE and BEN Drowned, and "spooky" lost episodes of your favorite childhood cartoons (where the characters turn into psychopathic killers or commit suicide) drenched in "hyper-realistic blood", trying to be the next Dead Bart, Suicide Mouse, or Squidward's Suicide.

[@Gustyguy]

@@Noelle_Holidayat least pepole are turning these creepypastas to make them actually good in the modern age I don’t think indie games will

[@Noelle_Holiday]

@@Gustyguy Not to mention, some of these creepypastas actually have a "so bad it's good" quality to them. They may be objectively bad at times, but at the same time, there's something so oddly memorable about them.

[@xCheckMate]

The thing that bothers me most about the Huggy Wuggy plushies is that they look nothing like their in-game ‘cutesy’ counterpart. Because, y’know, in-universe, Huggy is supposed to be an adorable, marketable mascot? But no, it’s his monsterfied, teeth-bearing persona. Could’ve at least been more accurate with the intention of the character

[@bundthead]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking

[@gachasins699]

I think that would be interesting, as if Playtime Co. is real and I think it'd be even cooler to include a little ARG or incorporate part of the lore into the plushies or merch in a subtle and realistic way

[@Noelle_Holiday]

To me, it doesn’t make any sense at the slightest in terms of the narrative standpoint, since it’s just making these characters less like something “innocent turned evil” and more like wolf in sheep’s clothing. Funnily enough, the FNAF plushies does actually look more like their in-game counterparts.

[@raffaelefrau9789]

Yeah, but I've seen literal RAINBOW VERSIONS of the thing. Again, enchantedmob used to make children's content using fnaf soo

[@prufan]

No, Mob Games did release official "cutesy" Huggy Wuggy plushies, this happened months ago. What you are seeing in stores is bootlegs.

[@thesmartestidiotonearth8782]

This is why I like DDLC and Little Nightmares... They don't feel like cash grabbers - hell, the original DDLC was free - but like actual passion projects and that shows in the sheer level of quality they posses.

[@Jaws-lt7ud]

Doesnt fnaf also feel like passionate project? I mean, fnaf 1 literally was made becuz scott was mad at people shiting on his cristian game.

[@Sashimi_Boy2404]

I love Little Nightmares, it gives me the gothic Tim Burton and Coraline vibes

[@n0kt0h45]

@@Jaws-lt7ud he wasn't mad. people said his characters looked like an animatronic, so he ran with that and made FNAF 1.

[@Jaws-lt7ud]

@@n0kt0h45 exactly what i said.

[@raffaelefrau9789]

@@n0kt0h45 really? I just knew he was making a kids game but failing so he tried to make a horror one since the models were considered scary

[@PoneDtheGuy]

The weird shift of indie horror being popular with and aimed at children is the weirdest thing to me and it's to the point where the "horror" aspect is more about "big bad chasing you and you can't fight back for the most part" than actually being scary. Edit: (it's feels like they rely on the "horror" of losing progress more than having a scary premise and environment)

[@chillycoldchomper9389]

Subnautica only has manual saves, it never autosaves for you, and yet it still manages to be scarier than all of these horror games now.

[@ypsawbones3646]

@@chillycoldchomper9389 The forest in single player as well

[@copmmer6117]

I watch a game reviewing channel and they reviewed thus game called Scorn, and man, that game is what indie horror games, or horror games in general should be. Scorn doesn't makes the use of jumpscares, but it uses the weird and unsettling atmosphere. I never played, and my laptop prob doesn't runs it, but it looks way better and breaks the horror trope of being a game about "it's kids stuff but it's actually scareeey!!!!!!111!", sadly it looks like it didn't got much recognition.

[@cloudshines812]

Its why RE2 Remake still gets me though because even though you can fight back, you constantly have to pick your battles and I STILL get nervous and stressed whenever encountering a Licker, a Sewer Monster or Mr X

[@caoimhedoesstuff9293]

I started working with 4/5 year olds and the influence of horror games made me really sad. We have kids that can’t do up the buttons on their coat yet but can tell me about fnaf, poppys playtime etc. Parents will really just let their kids watch playthroughs of anything as long as the character designs are colourful and cute. And it’s such a difficult thing to deal with in a classroom because do we stop them drawing these horror characters? Do we discourage them from talking about them? But then we don’t want them to feel like they’re in trouble for talking about something they’ve seen because that’s not fair.

[@kindred6453]

as someone who also worked with young children I agree, it's so jarring hearing them talk about poppy or about squid games.

[@theportaldestroyer9487]

I'm 12, near 13. When I was 6 everyone thought i was weird because I always played LittleBigPlanet Horror Maps. and i'm glad that was weird then. But now when I talk about with my 5 Year Old brother, he always talks about Huggy Wuggy. Always about Security Breach. He owns a HW plushie. I hate it so much, I grew up drawing Jeff the Killer and Eyeless Jack because they were so cool to me. But now kids grow up drawing Mommy Long Legs because it's everywhere..

[@bugjams]

@@kindred6453 Not to mention it ruins the show for adults by-proxy. Maybe this is petty, but it's harder to seriously enjoy a horror series when you know kids are obsessed with it too. Then again, I just hate kids in general, so I'm probably a scrooge. But I loved Squid Games. And now you can't bring it up without some childish "SQUIDGAMES FORTNITE" reference or some dumb shit. It's ruined.

[@kindred6453]

@@bugjams maybe you are a bit for the "I hate kids in general comment" XD However,in all seriousness you aren't wrong I've had a similar conversation with a friend of mine. Kids don't really make for the best community.

[@caoimhedoesstuff9293]

@@lilpidginpidgin8946 we’ve wrote notes home to parents before, but they’re just too lazy to actually put safety restrictions on kids devices or actually spend 5 seconds paying attention to what they play

[@SuperSylar]

The moment those big indie games stop doing the same story of having souls/minds of people/children trapped in/transferred into X, I'll start to see some change.

[@roshanyuvaraj6771]

How about that, but the kids aren't exactly interested in seeking vengeance.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

@@roshanyuvaraj6771 That would be very interesting, I think.

[@furrietgdmobileplayer3672]

Umm Maybe mr.hopp playhouse didn't? Yes I know it's an RPG/2D horror game but it's not about children trapped on something Instead it's about a demon who targets on some random child who have a doll that is demonic

[@insertnamehere259]

@@roshanyuvaraj6771I know this was ten months ago but isn’t poppy playtime NOT like this?

[@catdude3263]

Funny story about these Poppy Playtime plushies: In my country there was a controversy surrounding them, because parents were buying them for their children without thinking. When parents found out, what they were buying for their children, they wanted the game and plushies to be banned. It's a really funny story

[@wil.d_sage]

I saw a post being shared by clueless parents warning other parents about Huggy Wuggy toys so I think some are starting to catch on

[@Kyumifun]

That sounds like "Pokeman are demons!" time was but is even funnier

[@catdude3263]

@@Kyumifun Yeah, agreed

[@bloodrain1776]

@@Kyumifun the devs are predatory

[@samusai]

I prefer more "creepy" horror than straight out jumpscare/gore horror. White Day-although it has its flaws-is probably one of my favorite horror titles out there because of the unease and uncertainty of the story. THe next would be Illbleed but I think that's more for love letter to old horror movies and the cuckoo-cuckoo bananas turn the game takes close to the end. All in all, I personally don't really enjoy playing horror games, I DO enjoy watching them being played. Even more when they're dissected and discussed-in both positive and negative lights. So heck yeah I would love to see more vids just talking about them.

[@imreallybadatnamingthings]

Jumpscares are probably the only reason I don't watch horror games similar to FNAF or other. It's also why I _can_ watch playthroughs of Little Nightmares I & II

[@TRDRHDB]

Same here, I like the story of games like fnaf, but i hate jumpscares and I prefer horror that actually tries to be scary as opposed to just showing a spooky monster and having it make a loud noise to the player. Jumpscares are super cheap. If you like more atmospheric and unsettling horror games, faith chapter 1 and 2, little nightmares 1 and 2, and darkwood are really good horror games that don't rely on cheap jumpscares to be scary.

[@MossPathway]

Little nightmares was a good game series :]

[@colt1903]

Another issue with lore in some horror games *cough*Hello Neighbor*cough* is that it almost seems as though they change the game's plot and stuff to dodge or avoid the theories made about them, or even play into the theories with their advertisements even if the initial idea for the game's story or lore doesn't really involve that stuff. I think MatPat actually made a video talking about that a bit ago. "Are theories killing video games" or something. Edit: "give me a minute before ya type that in the comments" Welp...

[@Noelle_Holiday]

The thing is, Hello Neighbor wasn’t even supposed to be story-driven from the beginning. Back then, you just have to break into the Neighbor’s basement. The only reason why Hello Neighbor gained attention was because it had a promising gameplay concept involving a sophisticated AI that will quickly learn from whatever circumstances that happens within the game and adapt to different tactics to overcome your attempts. This, alongside the stealth breaking-and-entering gameplay, were unfortunately thrown out of the window by the developers in favor of the puzzles, platforming, and lore.

[@isaiahsimmons5776]

video games are too reliant on one aspect.

[@isaiahsimmons5776]

video games are too reliant on one aspect.

[@loodgack]

matpat was incorrect in that video, I did write a novel under this one which I'm not willing to copy lol. as a HN fan, who actually sees behind things, and not just tosses gossips, like the current video's creator did. I was honestly expecting to see something new, but he just legit copied the other videos' content, which talk about the topic. at least in the case of HN.

[@ssokssoki7]

The 'Connection Terminated' part of FNAF is genuinely some of the best little breakdowns in recent gaming, I don't know how long it'll take for horror games in the future to pack the exact punch FNAF did, [FNAF had quite unique circumstances.] So far, they all just seem so watered down and forgettable, even if they're packed to the brim with lore, while opposingly, the good, imo, horror games have been small packages that don't have much story, which.. of course can't bring those same feelings of when you're following a story

[@doodlejone6546]

Fnaf 3 and fnaf pizza sim are really cool to me cause you could end the story on both those games and if would feel complete imo.

[@_cfmca]

@@doodlejone6546 I see it as: If it ended at fnaf 3, the story would be open ended, and concise. If it ended at Fnafps the story would have a satisfying ending, but over complicated and hard to theorize on because the lore is so scattered.

[@puresport9]

Why do people think that ending speech is clever? It's fucking obnoxious. Nothing but flavorful word choice to distract you from the fact that FNAFs story has been re-treading the exact same "dead kids, purple guy is back, new pizzaria, bite of **insert date here**" bullshit for the past EIGHT YEARS! Scott Cawthon is a creatively bankrupt hack who can't maintain series canon for longer then two games.

[@ssokssoki7]

@@puresport9 What does any of that have to do with the moment itself? It starts with a small little twist, you're immediately captured as to what's happening. It recalls many things we've learnt in the past, at the time, and it's shocking when you start to see the temperature rising; the edges of the screen starts to warm up, a completely unexpected event that leads everyone playing, in-character, panicked. Then boom, the game's arc has been tied. Good writing and score, gave shivers, it was pretty haunting. It's 6am, it's not my incentive to write an eloquent and detailed view on the experience at the time, but anyways your comment is just '8 years and nothings changed' like yeah, what's the point? Not when it released, it was only a bit after the first game, and it was all the more insane considering how at the moment it was the ending of that story. It doesn't matter what people may think of it now, it lead a punch, and that was my point. What does 'obnoxious' stand for anyways lol

[@jordanscott4543]

@@puresport9 you’re ignoring the context in which the speech happens.

[@annablair1776]

The thing about Omori is, that while it did take forever, what we got out of it was amazing and genuinely broke me.

[@juiceoverflow]

Nobody cares lol

[@annablair1776]

@@juiceoverflow ok, and? you're not funny

[@juiceoverflow]

@@annablair1776 nobody cares lol

[@android2x773]

@@juiceoverflow I care. Lol

[@juiceoverflow]

@@android2x773 and you're a nobody, therefore your comment further reinforces my point

[@vibecheck4303]

To be truthful, some "horror" games are better than the ones that try to be scary. Subnautica is a good example of a horror game that doesn't use constant jumpscares or threats. It intentionally makes most encounters with leviathans rare because it keeps you on edge. The Forest doesn't even do horror correctly as it is mostly survival based but it can still be scarier than something like FNAF Security Breach due to it using body horror instead of just jumpscares. Phasmophobia is another good horror game as you know that the ghost has to be there but you don't know when it'll strike so it keeps you on edge constantly. All three of these games are way scarier (especially Subnautica) than SB, Poppy Playtime, or BATIM. These mainstream horror games need to tone it down a notch and keep on track of the game, not the money.

[@soulmaster9481]

The warpers still give me nightmares.

[@xdsmile5359]

yes i still get scared of animal robots jumpscacring (I'm 19)

[@Snow-xd4rv]

Poppy isn't bad in terms of horror, the vent chase scene is considered the best chase scene in a horror game, because it is. Also those other games are a different genre of horror. Why do the other games have to change themselves for the sake of it? A Subnautica or Phasmophobia type gameplay wouldn't work on SB or BATIM, mainly because those games rely on story, the others don't.

[@Snow-xd4rv]

Also, isn't trying to ride another popular games coattail the main reasons why this video was made. How do you know a Subnautica or Phasmophobia game would work for other games like SB, BATIM? The issue is that other games are trying to be like FNAF and failing or successfuly failing. Why try to continue that issue with other games?

[@Snow-xd4rv]

And while PP can be coined a game like any other indie game today, PP did have some unique that made it different from other indie horror games

[@metalrob6713]

I think we need more ACTION HORROR games, similiar tone like Bloodborne, gothic horror lovecraftian game with amazing action and combat, keeping player on edge while fighting against horrifying other worldly creatures. Plus, lore in that game is wonderfully written, yes, it takes time to understand what is going on, player don't get much info in the start, only basics, but when the game hits you with the HUGE reveal, game becomes more interesting. That's why Bloodborne is best action horror game made.

[@sleepylmguy9968]

As a Bloodborne fan I’m down for this! Games like RE4, Evil Within 1 and 2 were the most fun I had with horror.

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

While it isn`t action horror and more of an horror RPG, i also want to recommend Darkest Dungeon. While it became far more chesseable with latter patches i still think it can keep a player on edge well enough to this day.

[@spencerk1932]

i'm down with light gun horror games like silent hill: the arcade. Would really like to see more games like deadstorm pirates.

[@hiddenthunder1395]

@@spencerk1932 finally, someone else who likes SH: The Arcade. It's a solid game, but every time fanfom brought it's up just to complain about it. Indeed we need more rail horror shooters. Games like the House of the Dead series, CarnEvil, Vampire Night and etc. I would love to see an indie title made in the same vein.

[@firefly56embers33]

Honestly we need some more games like these and re5 where it's a solid blend of horror and action similar to re4

[@superedgy7878]

I think another big issue is that so many are trying to be the next fnaf. Trying to tap into that style of "innocent kid thing gone wrong". so many modern indi games are falling into that category its just bland and sad. I love when modern games break that mold cause to many of them are falling into that trope. Be creative horror indie devs, stop trying to be fnaf

[@gregger_mcgregger]

To be honest I think that all started with the episode 3 of the Walten Files, where in a nutshell, it’s about an arcade game that goes extremely wrong. And then Andy’s apple farm did pretty much the same thing. Then Needlemouse, and then where we are today. What’s sad is the creator of TWF is trying to change the next episode just to be original because it’s so overdone now. If you want your game or series in general to be successful, be original for gods sake. That’s how the first person succeeded, because they were doing something original and was cool. Not taking someone’s idea.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

Right now, I'm trying to develop an indie horror game that will be influenced by dark children's entertainment and spooky cartoons like Courage the Cowardly Dog, Invader Zim, The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy, Gravity Falls, The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack, Coraline, ParaNorman, etc. It would be characterized by the cartoonishly deranged art direction, nightmarish imagery, surrealistic and bizarre environments, mind-bending psychological narrative, a dark and macabre sense of humor juxtaposing with the horror elements, and old-school resource management gameplay reminiscent of games like the classic Resident Evil and Silent Hill.

[@ladyblubel]

I really want more horror games that don’t deal with mental illness. Give me the supernatural horror games (like the Mortuary’s Assistant) where we’re dealing with demons and ghosts or even less “dangerous” creatures like fae or sirens/mermaids! Not everything needs to be an advert to go to therapy!

[@Noelle_Holiday]

You'll gonna love Phasmophobia and Midnight Ghost Hunt. Alternatively, you might check out Yuppie Psycho if you're interested.

[@cerabond7650]

So... Fnaf? That has ghosts possessing animatronics.

[@lasagnaboi3000]

You should play faith : the unholy trinity

[@Glorgleshmorg]

The fact that a game marketed as "cute as heck platformer" had a level scarier than all of Fnaf and poopy playtime is absolutely insane

[@dylansharp8471]

What game?

[@webberinternetpolice6431]

@@dylansharp8471 I'm about 25% sure they're talking about A Hat In Time

[@user-ol5yw3mk1y]

@@webberinternetpolice6431 me pissing myself in the manor

[@defuncchannel9605]

pretty sure this is in reference to Kirby games

[@user-ol5yw3mk1y]

@@defuncchannel9605 that does also work

[@TheIvoryDingo]

Personally, I'm just really tired of how much modern horror games seem to rely on jump scares (which I would say are the "Fart Jokes" of horror) as I really don't do well with sudden loud noises. Also, I'm surprised at how oblivious I was towards the existence of Poppy's Playtime for a good 6-7 months. Not sure how I managed that.

[@Simbala-bq5vy]

Not only on games in movies it's also alot of fart jokes and butt jokes and they aren't even funny (cough) minions (cough)

[@hylianmono]

I literally found out about poppy playtime 30 minutes after it released

[@cranberryrosebud]

I agree, and I think the word "rely" is key. There are games that use jumpscares to enhance the experience, where the scares, while sudden in either visuals or sound, naturally fit into the environment. If there's less environment, the devs will end up relying on those scares, and that in turn will make them cheap and probably predictable (and in some cases, they just ruin the immersion). I don't find most of the FNaF games rather inspired in terms of gameplay, at least not compared to a lot of other stuff, but something people always mention when it comes to the first game is the atmosphere, and I agree that Scott did an excellent job with it. Sure, the jumpscare animation looks a bit ridiculous slowed down, and someone could also just not find the animatronics scary, but underneath you still have a game with great atmospheric noises, providing an eerie feeling throughout. I can't help thinking that the apparitions were used as jumpscares in FNaF 3 because there was a lack of atmosphere compared to the first game - "If we keep the player stressed about the ventilation, and make spooky ghosts go 'boo!', they won't get a chance at trying to immerse themselves!" I do like how the jumpscare noises in Pizzeria Simulator are more quiet though, it makes it a little bit more soft/subtle, plus there's a nice, old-fashioned feeling of panic brought out by making noise in the office. This turned into a FNaF review, whoops... Anyway, for an example of what I talked about with the natural scares, check out the Taiwanese game, Detention. Or DDLC actually, even if it's a bit overhyped (the glitches freaked me out).

[@legotheepic3611]

Jumpscares that arent your fault in video games is like a comedian tickling you to forcibly laugh at their jokes

[@T1MAGEDDON]

Hard agree, in most of these games i'm not even scared of the horror elements it tries to do, i'm just scared of there being a jumpscare because i really dislike them

[@BrotherVoidBomber]

Manlybadasshero does countless indie horror titles that are short and to the point if your looking for more ideas on pure horror videos. Or I'm actually really up for discussing in depth older silent hill games. I never got the chance to play them and I think it might be fun to see how you dive into it. Or of course you can put a tier list video on fictional women. Both is good.

[@Clepto_and_Co]

Alphabetagamer does as well, but theirs don't have any commentary

[@wil.d_sage]

@Who are you to accuse me same with Manly. He just plays the game and moves on. Plus he doesn’t scream or act like a cracked-out chimp to entertain the kids

[@viscountrainbows6452]

Manly rocks; I especially appreciate how he goes for every ending and tries to find all the secrets. No fluff, no unnecessary yelling, just his best in a full playthrough of experimental indie horror.

[@Snow-xd4rv]

Also watch Kubz Scouts, he's the one who plays the indie games first and makes them popular. Kubz is the trendsetter on gaming youtube. He has a series dedicated to playing indie games, a lot of youtubers get their games from him

[@KoongYe]

Manly is awesome. One of my proudest subscriptions,

[@AScribblingTurtle]

FNAF had the advantage of being a Game that slowly grew into the franchise it is today. The first few Lore bits weren't even that. Just some spooky easter eggs to break the monotony and repetitiveness. Now everything is about the franchise. Even here in Germany, there are so many shops selling these cheap-looking, ugly huggy dolls.🤮 I cringe every time I have to walk by them.

[@samt3412]

The Bite of '87 grew from some random piece of Phone Guy dialogue into the most iconic piece of the series' extensive lore, entirely without any intention from Scott to make the Bite anything important when FNAF 1 was made

[@raffaelefrau9789]

@An very person nah italy too

[@skeletonentertainment4201]

@@samt3412 **clears throat** was that the bite of '87!?

[@Northflowo]

I agree with most of your points here, and this is a well structured and generally well made video. Would love to hear you talk about horror games you enjoy! I feel like comparing Poppy Playtime to Deltarune because both of them sell merch when the game isn't even out yet isn't completely fair, though :D Both chapters of Deltarune thus far have been free to play. There isn't really another revenue stream for that game yet, unlike for Poppy Playtime, so it doesn't come off as trying to milk the game's audience for money.

[@Nox.x_ART]

I remember watching your videos on my school ipad

[@Soooshi.]

Hey Northflowo!

[@Cinnamowo]

I've always been interested about the scale of Huggy plushes in other countries... Because I swear, in Russia you can see twenty of them in every single window, and that's a real horror

[@SkineSky]

Problem with the horror game genre? The problem is that there's no reason to be afraid. Every horror game, or least the more successful ones, have the problem that none of them have any consequences to dieing, the thing you're supposed to be afraid of. You just respawn a few feet back from where you died and try again. The designers rely on stunning visuals and jumpscares that cause instant death. You never feel like you have anything to LOSE so there's no reason to be afraid. Lose being the core component behind the emotion of fear by the way. Example: FNAF Security Breach, and FNAF in general, is not all that scary once you've died a dozen times or so, just about everyone can agree with that. You know what was scary about that game though? Funny enough, it's the feature hated the most about the game, the end game where you can't save anymore. This was the ONLY time in the entire game that actually made you feel tense. That at any moment you could screw up and LOSE your progress. It really makes you feel like you need to be careful, and actually make you, ya know, FEAR the things trying to kill you. Even if it was a bad design choice to not give you the ability to save, it was somehow the scariest part of any recent horror game, which is really telling about the current state of the horror genre.

[@ChronosNotashi]

Definitely agree with you regarding the save bit. While I haven't played many horror games, I do feel that making it easy to just save whenever tends to make games that are meant to be difficult or frightening less so, because it removes any sort of tension. Even worse when multiple saves for the same run are allowed with no limitations, as any mistakes made before the most recent save could be reversed by loading a previous save with minimal consequences. One of the things that helped build tension in the older Resident Evil games, for example, was that while you COULD save you game, there was a limit to WHERE and HOW MANY TIMES you could. You couldn't simply save before an uncertain area, because if you ran out of saves, you had to hope you could get another one soon, and dying ran the risk of losing a significant amount of progress if another save attempt was nowhere to be found. While it would be seen as archaic in this day and age, it was something that placed more gravity on your decisions, and every choice to save your progress had to count. That also go for games where you might be able to do multiple saves despite the save attempts, as you still have to gauge what spot would be a good place for one of those saves.

[@kittymyths1208]

Then the game would become stressful, not scary

[@ChronosNotashi]

@@kittymyths1208 A game doesn't have to be "scary" scary to properly qualify as a horror game. Tension is a powerful tool when used properly, moreso in a horror setting that aims to give you a sense of powerlessness. The limited saves in the older RE games is just one of the ways it accomplishes that. There's also the limited inventory, which is also present in games like Dead Space, and makes it so you can't just carry every health and ammo pickup you find. Combined with the limited save points/number of saves, it makes the enemies that much more terrifying, as you can't just expect to run-and-gun or power through them and come back to a point just before the encounter if you mess up. As the person above me noted, just dark visuals and jumpscares isn't gonna cut it in most cases. Markiplier, for instance, went from scared to frustrated the more the jumpscares of FNAF occurred, because after a while they stopped being a scare factor, and more of a "You failed. Try again" mechanic. Even from a viewer's perspective, it started looking less like a horror game, and more like a decent security system management game where the closest you got to horror was the visual setting and jumpscares. Edit: Had to fix a game name above.

[@darkjager7010]

​@@ChronosNotashi While i agree on a lot of things said there, i gotta also kinda give my own opinion on the whole RE1 save thing, i think its being a bit overblown here ngl, why? I've seen enough people play REs 1 through 3(and that's including code veronica with them) and the game does give you more than plenty ink ribbons, so it really isn't all that hard to choose when to save the game, not to mention that people don't tend to save before making any significant progress or needing to stop playing for x or y reason. The save points being very far apart and in the safe rooms only is a very good way to keep tension up, i will say that much, it could get pretty tense at times having to run to one in a pinch. Now, speaking of the merits of a game being stressful and still counting as horror... you're right, that's how RE1 is mostly remembered as, very stressful, why? Simple: you spend more then 90% of the game running away and dodging from enemies. In the very beginning it is true that you have to choose whether to kill the zombies or not, but considering that they will respawn when you next turn on the ps1, that choice kinda gets thrown outta the window (yes i know of the burning the bodies with your lighter mechanic, no need to mention it, but it doesn't make much of a difference when 1 zombie would take damn near all your bullets to kill in the first place), which mind you isn't a negative, it adds to the stress factor and makes you a lot stingier with resources. If there's anything in RE1 that's worth mentioning is that, not exactly the ink ribbon, because people will most likely never run out of those unless they're actively trying to. At the end of the day, all of this is how i personally feel after seeing so many playthroughs of the OGs and even see their mechanics being brought back by the latest remakes (aka the option for ink ribbon and not so much of an option when playing on hard/new game+ and the respawning zombies annoying the ever living fuck out of you more than Mr.X ever could),

[@braindavidgilbert3147]

Subnautia, of all games, found a semi decent solution to this problem. Just dont let the player die. Seriously. Most leviathans dont do a big ammount of damage, along with giving them ample time to run away. Will this approach work for all games? No. Is it a starting point? I think yes

[@Source-Z-rer]

I'd like to see more horror games made around phobias. Some of it can be obvious stuff, like spiders, snakes, and other creepy crawlies, but I feel some phobias could lend themselves to potentially really good psychological horror. Subnautica is my go to example, even if the game isn't technically psycho horror (or horror at all).

[@Noelle_Holiday]

That's exactly what my horror game concept was going to be, although it's more closer to stuff like Courage the Cowardly Dog and Invader Zim aesthetically, with all the nightmarish imagery and dark humor.

[@ameirgrant6116]

Omori is a great psychological horror

[@Lazekillerwhale]

Phobias? Maybe try Phobies? It's a turn based strategy game where you have to control your arsenal of Phobies(Monsters inspired by phobias) to win the game. The design is quite charming but still has some gritty feels to it.

[@kassiaactuallydraws9361]

I know this game called Chondriatic and it is basically the fear of dying of a sickness and not knowing there's also this other game Markiplier played called Shut In that looked cool

[@villagecreep2692]

I’ve been working on a PowerPoint game exactly like this, but this video has made me realize it sucks

[@VerdantRange]

What would I like in a horror game? I'd go with a Scream inspired thing where you're someone trying to discover the identity of a masked killer while not drawing too much attention to yourself since that would put you in the killer's crosshairs.

[@creed8712]

A reverse Hitman almost

[@Mike_Dubo]

So... Among Us?

[@ACHILLES8887]

📮📮📮📮📮📮📮

[@Simbala-bq5vy]

So Scream?

[@cralo2569]

amnesia: the dark descent 2 doesn't need to be the same game, just keep the old elements that work: the sound of terror/chases light plays a important role in atmosphere and gameplay iconic monster designs (dark descent's grunts and brutes are way more iconic than the generic alien-esque guys from rebirth)

[@claytonlatone8959]

I do think Spooky’s Jump Scare Mansion and the DLCs are great examples of how to do something right. The game has a simple and innocent presence of trying to get through 1,000 rooms, but mixes it up with introducing Specimens that try and kill you. The DLCs appropriately delve into the lore without a overstaying it’s welcome and also change up the gameplay a bit. Lost in Vivo also is a great example of what more horror games should strive to be: genuinely creepy and fresh ideas.

[@_cfmca]

I admit spookys Jumpscare mansion is one of my favorites, but I don’t think they are an example of “doing things right” on a first play through it can be scary, sure, but neither the gameplay nor the horror could justify a second play through. The specimens present no challenge, you just walk away for all of them.

[@GigasGMX]

@@_cfmca not all games need replay value, my dude.

[@_cfmca]

@@GigasGMX yeah fair enough i just don’t personally enjoy ones that don’t :/

[@crittersoup]

The Mortuary Assistant is a super cool game that’s been gaining some traction recently but it’s super cool because of how much passion was clearly put into it. It was made by one guy apparently and there are so many randomized scares and different endings it’s obvious he clearly cares about his work. I’d give it a look if you have time, it’s definitely worth it!

[@lovinani7]

I miss the days of early rpgmaker games, where the possibility of finding an interesting little title was a fun and exciting treasure hunt. Granted, not much can be with rpgmaker, but lots of classics came from this and are still considered darlings in the indie community. Had it not been for that era, we wouldn't have the indie movement we have now, for better or worse. I just wish the current indie titles would get as much attention as the bigger hits. A lot of them deserve to be played and talked about.

[@bundthead]

RPGMAKER GAMES ARE MY FAVORITE!!! Aaaahhh!!

[@DeusExProcella]

A ton can be done with RPG Maker, it just requires a lot of effort and potentially commissioning or writing new plugins/scripts to make it do what you want it to. It's more limited than some other game dev tools, but not nearly as limited as people think.

[@cloudshines812]

Even though I started watching Coryxkenshin because of FNAF back when I was younger, I still remember bingeing his ENTIRE Horror RPG game playthroughs. Ao oni will always be my favourite

[@jasonz.7311]

There are still and (I hope) always will be absolute bangers that come out of rpgmaker. It's not as limited as you might think, although it's not exactly easy to get more out of it, and rpgmaker has most of what you need for a good game as baseline anyways. I agree, it feels like everyone's always talking about the same few things until the series stagnates and starts getting milked, then they move on to the next big hit, and the smaller, good games are glazed over completely.

[@giftedlicense3548]

My favorite horror game? Split between Omori and DDLC. On one hand, omori doesn't rely on jumpscares to scare you. it uses disturbing images and depressing realities to convey it's horror. It also constantly lures you into a false sense of security for the majority of the game, and to have that ripped away from you so abruptly is brilliant. On the other hand, DDLC makes you bond with these characters, and when Sayori dies no matter how hard you try to save her hurts. In it's second act, it uses jumpscares and creepy scenes to inflict fear into you. You never know the next time you'll encounter some other piece of nightmare fuel, and at the end, when you have to watch Yuri's body slowly rot away... it's terrifying. After you kill monika, and you think it's finally over, just to lose everything, it hurts just as much as Sayori"s death. It seems that there will never be happiness in the literature club. Thank you for reading all of that.

[@feenickstv4209]

Omori is my favorite video game of all time

[@Trigger__Happy]

My favorite horror games of all time are Silent Hill 1-3 and Resident evil 1-4 originals and RE 1 & 2 remake are good too.

[@canolathra6865]

Security Breach's story is a casualty of its development. From what we can tell piecing through the leftover bits in the game files, the story was going to be rather cohesive. However, when development resulted in cutting out major components, and thus major story plot points, which turned the story into is disjointed mess. After all, there's no time to go back and change story pieces when you are already cutting gameplay components for time.

[@redpanda6497]

@@jmurray1110 He isn't a robot in the game, it's just a theory.

[@Diembee]

IMSCARED is one of my favorite Horror games in general, it enjoyed some popularity in 2012 when Markiplier played the demo, but it was slowly forgotten once the full game came out. It’s core mechanic revolves around what it does in your computer; it often creates text files outside he game that directly interact within the game. Sometimes files will drop vague instructions or scattered lore, sometimes it could be passcodes, maps, or my personal favorite puzzle: being given a gun and having to go into the files and changing the amount of bullets in your gun in order to get ammo. It sounds quite counterintuitive to have a game where it’s core mechanic lies outside of gameplay, but it’s unique and interesting enough to actually add to the “pixelated nightmare” itself, seeing as it is also quite meta when it comes to horror games.

[@TeeV479]

Sounds a bit like oneshot, also an indie horror youtuber/twitch streamer called thafnine played it which I watch played it and you can see the video on his second channel t9

[@SemiHypercube]

ooh some of those aspects of making files outside the game that interact with the game reminds me of OneShot (play it it's pretty good)

[@tomykong2915]

specifically on toby fox and deltarune: what truly gives him a pass is his reputation and the trust in him that he's earned, he already made one game and it came out well, he has treated fans well and we both hope and believe he'll continue to do the same, plus, what already exists of deltarune is actually cool and he's given a fair reason why its taking as long that involves making sure the game is as good as can be, all of this adds up to us being perfectly fine waiting and sustaining ourselves on fan content and merch while waiting, especially since we know he'll somehow still manage to make something even better than we expect

[@TheWaverunners]

There's also the fact that Deltarune is a short of pseudo/spiritual sequel to Undertale, with a lot of direct character crossover (and a pretty big tease build up to the Deltarune version of Papyrus). The fact that the "demo" was pretty in-depth and a huge step up visually and mechanically from Undertale (making up for the lack of meta control so far), and Chapter 2 was released completely for free (and pretty much solidified Deltarune as something really special in it's own right).

[@ukaszwalczak1154]

I feel the riff on Matpat is, a little justified, but still, they're literally just theories. Plus, Matpat is one of the only youtubers to actually adress things in a way that isn't just saying "I made a severe, and continous, lapse, in my judgement" and fake sobbing on camera-

[@meh4294]

I hate when ppl take his theories srsly ,and the game devs did this one mistake too ,it sucks

[@connor48880]

What happened at 24:03? Did he start ranting for a second and cut it out?

[@ukaszwalczak1154]

@@meh4294 He himself made a video on 'are theories killing games?' where, he said to game developers to not change a game just cuz someone made a theory on it based off the evidence the developers gave the players-

[@raffaelefrau9789]

I mean, matpat probably makes theories because he enjoys making them. Of course you dont have to take his word as absolute truth, one of his theories is literally "sans is ness", it's mostly just entertainment.

[@skylarkblue1]

Matpat never acknowledged he directly supported funding an anti-autism charity and the "speech" he made about ettikas death which was incredibly insensitive. Not to mention the *constant* art stealing, transphobia, racism and so much more in his videos that have been happening for years.

[@thestrangepotato6141]

One of my favorite horror games is the Little Nightmares Series. I love stories with mystery and lore, and I think these games does a good job of getting you invested in the world and wanting to know the story around it while only giving you clues that are built in the environment. There is no dialogue, no secret notes, none of the obvious "secret story' stuff. The monster designs are always so creative and pretty scary. I understand that it may not be as scary as some horror games, but I think the atmosphere in those games is always very well done. It manages to make you feel uneasy in a game that barely has any jumpscares.

[@wjackson6864]

The thing with the Huggy Wuggy plush happened to me as well. I was going to a local festival and they had different colored Huggy Wuggy plushies as prizes.

[@ghoulchan7525]

Same here. It was so weird. I saw young kids with em. And i don't think most are official..

[@vessel727]

Same. I went abroad on holidays and every second shop had whole shelves dedicated to colourful huggy wuggys.

[@gavintron8897]

BATIM is one of my favorite horror games, despite it's flaws. I recently replayed the game after years of not thinking about it, and I had a good time. I love the characters and the world it set up. I loved the horrorific atmosphere it brought with the bendy cutouts, and monsters like The Projectionist. I get the feeling I'm constantly being watched as I roam the halls of the abandoned studio, waiting for something to show up and try to chase me down. It's a great game in my opinion.

[@sharkjumpingwalrus6744]

Horror is very hard to get right. I remember the days of the RPG horror maker games. The deaths could be scary when they wanted to be, but the story was what made or broke the game. IB has quite a few twists and turns, and even the best ending has bitter moments with what you have to do to get there. Witch's House has one hell of a plot twist, but if I go any further than that people might be spoilered. That being said, even when you know what the story reveals, it's fun tp go through and see all the little moments that hint at the big reveal. Although, even if you played the game, there is a good chance that you missed the plot twist on your first time through because of how you have to go out of your way to get an alternate ending in the middle of a chase scene no less. But that is not that big an issue for me, at the very least.

[@DoctorTheo]

My favorite horror game is GTFO. It has an amazing atmosphere, good gameplay, the lore....kinda confusing, something about a virus that is about to wipe out humanity and thats about all I know. I love it because even after playing it for so long, its still incredibly tense. Its not scary in the sense of Silent Hill is scary, but its scary in the sense of "Oh god there's so many enemies here and I only have one magazine left". Its stupidly hard and that's a big reason why I love it. Highly recommend you check it out

[@MrTalithan]

Gtfo has me on the edge of my seat every freaking moment. Every alarmed door, every bloody gate, every room with fog makes my heart rate spike because I know that I'm probably not gonna make it.

[@alexispeace9836]

What does gtfo stand for? I’ve never heard of this before 😭

[@DoctorTheo]

@@alexispeace9836 It means "Get The Fuck Out"

[@MrTalithan]

@@alexispeace9836 It's literally the title of the game. It's made by the same folks who made Payday, although very different games. GTFO is a co-op horror shooter (and an extremely hard one at that) where you and up yo 3 other people (or ai) descend into the belly of an enormous underground complex to achieve a variety objectives and extract. It is not a game where you can run and gun, you are at a disadvantage at all times. Ammo and health are scarce and limited, so you must use stealth melee attacks to clear out rooms of 'Sleepers'. It also means 'Get the fuck out'

[@ewwitscullen9132]

I adore GTFO.

[@flamestoyershadowkill6400]

If the merch is engrained into the franchise and is very good quality it is okay if it releases simultaneously with the show/game. Gundam is a good example of this with gunpla merchandise.

[@tax1283]

I've seen those Poppy Playtime dolls at the mall too, no idea how those ugly things sell. I'd be interested in seeing your thoughts on the Fatal Frame series, but something on Silent Hill would be great too.

[@aureliodeprimus8018]

Not the mention all this stupid adds YT was pestering anyone without an Adblocker for months on end...

[@justaregularbean8861]

My younger sister loves those ugly toys like poppy playtime friday night funkin etc, so she saw huggy wuggy toy in the mall that cost 10 fucking bucks when it surely cant be more than 3 bucks, so the owner of the small shop in the mall said its so expensive bcs its popular, i so fucking hate it when price is high bcs its popular but not bcs its materials are expensive

[@Noelle_Holiday]

Keep in mind that MobGames (the development team behind Poppy Playtime) owned a Minecraft animation channel for a younger audience, which all features random characters from FNAF, BATIM, DDLC, FNF, etc. It almost felt like a fever dream, seriously.

[@bazedayzanimations1699z]

i went to the mall yesterday, you know the youtube kids different colored huggy wuggys? there were plushes of THOSE

[@bofi1280]

Puppet Combo is the perfect example of good modern day horror games, imo.

[@HangryOnPaws]

Oh my gosh yes! Bloodwash is probably my favourite.

[@Tmaster2006YT]

Little nightmares, Bloodborne, Subnautica, Iron lung, Dead space 1-2, DDLC, Barotruma and Darkwood are incredible horror games that pull you into nightmarish situations along with interesting ideas that are executed wonderfully in my opinion. Out of all the recent popular horror games though I’m actually sad that Bendy ended up in the state that it did. The idea, tone and style the game had going was amazing despite it’s misguided development over the years.

[@VengeanceGD]

Check out BATDR. It might be the Best out of Indie horror.

[@Tmaster2006YT]

@@VengeanceGD, it’s not. If you really believe THAT to be the best indie horror has to offer… man this genre has sunk low.

[@gerardoalvarado8425]

Wait is subnautica really a horror game I thought it was just exploring a dangerous water planet

[@VengeanceGD]

@@Tmaster2006YT It’s one of the best and is the best in mascot horror right now. I completely know there are other games like Amnesia and Outlast and Iron lung. But I’m saying it is one of the best out of indie horror currently.

[@corporalkarambit]

​@@Tmaster2006YT Bendy's awesome. This may be a shocker, but not everyone's opinion matches your own.

[@tonysonic456]

I won't deny that indie horror games have their problems. FNAF is too big for it's own good. Hello Neighbor turned itself into a brand that's all talk and no substance. Poppy Playtime is doing the exact same thing but with a little more substance. Bendy admittedly left quite a few things up to interpretation, but at least then, there are clues you can piece together yourself. Despite all this however, with the exception of Hello Neighbor because I have a lot more problems with it and Poppy Playtime because I can't play it, I still like the games' lore and gameplay. Sure, Bendy has been criticized for being a walking simulator which I can definitely see, but it's atmosphere and story and sense of dread especially in Chapter 3 make up for it in my opinion. FNAF is a bit more frustrating because of how much more convoluted the lore has gotten thanks to Scott not wanting the story to end even though it could've ended TWICE NOW, and the gameplay in the games does get more frustrating at points. However, I still enjoy playing them because at least with the older games it was bit more simple to understand and get behind. Because of this, I'm excited for Security Breach's arrival on Xbox so I can play it for myself and hopeful for Bendy and the Dark Revival. On a separate note, this is one of the reasons Undertale is my favorite game of all time. Because compared to all the other indie games I've brought up and even Baldi and Cuphead to an extent, Undertale feels like one of the most pure games out there. There is definitely merch of the game out there, but it's not a big brand like the others. Hell, even Deltarune's showing signs of falling into that same trap, but with Undertale, it knows what it wants to be, excels at it, and doesn't try to be more.

[@minespatch]

Yeah, Bendy still holds up. I love the whole cartoon aesthetic with a meta textual look at a filmmaker who's gone too much power.

[@wolfenden9805]

Deltarune doesn't have any big brands Most of the merch comes from fangamer for both undertale and deltarune And i don't know what signs does deltarune show of falling into the same trap

[@tonysonic456]

@@wolfenden9805 Like Kamen said, Toby Fox had merch for the game before it was even halfway finished. Sure, it’s nowhere near on the same level as Poppy Playtime, but he was jumping the gun a little bit.

[@IUseRandomPfps]

Whoever wrote this comment is a chad.

[@SweetVictory270]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[@noahjester8471]

It's interesting. Kids oftentimes like to be scared, just like how adults like to be scared. I remember being terrified of the goo from Monster Blood for Breakfast, how it just didn't fit into any concievable mold for monsters I knew of. It was a liquid, able to seep into anything; I had night terrors of the goo spreading across town, across the oceans, until I was consumed on the last piece of land left on the planet. I'd wake up shrieking, absolutely hysterical. I was an... interesting child 🤣

[@kajag5232]

Man, I felt so nostalgic when you mentioned Monster Blood... I read all the books, I loved them so much! I think R.L Stein's books are actually a pretty good example of how you can make horror that can be really disturbing depending on the person that reads them, and even how vivid their imagination is. And yet, it's still grounded enough for young teens to experience it.

[@Kyumifun]

This reminds me of how SCP 000 "When Day Breaks" is supposed to be. Humanity suddenly is f**ked and can't do anything but succumb to the threat. In case you don't know what it's about: the sun melts every live form into blobs, the blobs then go everywhere in search of any single survivor that wasn't melted by the sun. Nothing can help them, not even the foundation, not even the other anomalies. Even the dead will be revived just so they can be used as the sun's minions and suffer.

[@noahjester8471]

@@Kyumifun Embrace the darkness. Spurn the light, brother.

[@pandaitis0157]

The scene were the guy's washing his face and doesn't notice the monster blood starts coming out instead of water made me stop washing my face as a kid lol

[@funniusername4355]

I think indie companies need to stop making horror games about corrupt businesses, they have a strong desire to role play as their own characters

[@Snow-xd4rv]

Indie horror isn't run by businesses though?

[@DiabolicalYounglingslayer]

@@Snow-xd4rv Read it again.

[@Snoebal]

Inscryption had a great horror aspect in the sense that it had an unsettling atmosphere. You always thought there would be a jumpscare coming, but there never was. One of the best horror games I’ve played in the past couple of years, even though it isn’t really a horror game.

[@impossibletetriz563]

Honestly, I'd really like to see more indie horror visual novels. Like one of the comments said, it seems that most of these modern indie horror games like Poppy's Playtime rely so heavily on lore and theory crafting that the main, in game plot ends up rather lacking. But with visual novels, you're kinda forced to focus on the main storyline, since that's what most gameplay is going to revolve around. Also, does anyone remember how popular Saya no Uta was when it came out and how it stayed just as popular for a pretty solid time?

[@meoka19]

That thumbnail looks real neat with the colours

[@Ramsey276one]

Fully agree

[@danielferrieri7434]

Video Idea: Why No One Likes Netflix's Live Action Anime

[@cosmicspacething3474]

This

[@nightmaretrooper5064]

Live Action Animes are not even needed. What I mean by that? Answer there very unnessessarry. Even if it's from Japan? I found them to be unneeded.

[@Mike_Dubo]

@@nightmaretrooper5064 Well, in all honesty, it is a chance to bring in a new audience who isn't in to animation, much less anime. Granted, they've still been doing a horrible job of it, but its still has its purpose.

[@orange_turtle3412]

Despite technically being a mascot horror game, I think Amanda the Adventurer actually does a stellar job at scaring the player. There is technically a monster hunting you, but it only appears in a few select bad endings. Most of the game isnt meant to induce a fight or flight instinct in the player, but rather to make them uncomfortable through purely psychological means. You arent participating in the horror here. Your’e piecing together a dark and disturbing story using clues you find throughout the game. In this way its able to completely break through the issue that the character is in danger but not the player because the character is barely even in danger. Its not horrifying, its disturbing and uncomfortable to play. And therefore it ends up being ten times as nerve wracking to play as any other horror game of recent.

[@riley._.5332]

Theory Culture also breeds an equally annoying problem (that effects basically every genre), that if someone is notable enough in a community, or the theory community, their theories will be taken as gospel. I've seen it happen so many times with shows and storylines I love where someone will site some theory as fact, and when I tell them that's not confirmed/ask where they got that info I get sent a matpat link. Or even worse when you share your own thought or breakdown of a story and you get the inevitable avalanche of "well actually according to [insert youtuber], this is what's happening-"

[@Buzterer]

my biggest problem with post-FNAF indie horror games is the multimedia aproach to lore. One thing is to make the audience have to figure out the details of the backstory themselves, that is fine. Another is leave a story hook into the sequel's story, that is also fine. Another third diferent thing is to make a spin-off series in a completely different medium to tell the story because you couldnt keep it straight enough to tell it in just one type of media, that I believe what caused the problem to begin, IMO

[@Snow-xd4rv]

They also have the books and comics, and some of the stuff in SB was from the books. Idk about the comics, but I've heard a FNAF youtuber mention the multiple book references in SB

[@Buzterer]

@@Snow-xd4rv the comics are just adaptarions of the books

[@lucasstewart6701]

@@Snow-xd4rv As far as I could tell playing (so take this with a grain of salt) those references seemed more like nods than actual lore. Like, 90% of the arcade machines in the building are references to stuff from prior game mini games to characters from the books

[@WarmLillie]

I guess you can say the true horror isn’t the game but how they get created and function

[@Noelle_Holiday]

You could technically argue that FNAF, and to a lesser extent, Scott Cawthon, is responsible for popularizing the whole "child-friendly indie horror" subgenre into the mainstream by laying out the groundwork for these games and the other stuff associated with it. Although to be fair, even that was accidental, since the very first installment within the FNAF franchise was supposed to be Scott Cawton's last work before retiring from video game development.

[@MystBloom]

Tbh Minecraft's warden is more scary than 80% of modern horror games

[@Simbala-bq5vy]

More like a zombie the warden us more a Zombie cause Zombie can't see right Zombies hear well then zombies are fast like the warden

[@vibevizier6512]

The warden is fucking TERRIFYING.

[@doodlejone6546]

It is, I was in the weird dark biome and I was in an area too small for the warden to spawn but I was still scared 💀

[@realPurpleOrb]

Not at all, really. Just frustrating, especially when baldi was better at the warden's purpose.

[@wittyshenanigans1302]

The warden lost its creepy when my cousin and I kept jumping in the pit to fist fight it lol

[@annyshkilionok2680]

I forget sometimes how much I love night in the woods, it's music, and pretty much everything about it. Thanks for throwing me back with that intro ALSO thanks so much for using the instrumentals for songs that relate directly to the games, it shows you know what you're actually talking about

[@Mangakamen]

Our pleasure

[@kairos-049]

Subnautica is one of the last good horror games I've played because it didn't just throw something creepy at you, grab your shoulders, shake you while saying "WoOOOoOH SpOOooOoKy". The terrifying atmosphere of a lot of the biomes came very naturally and after the first encounter with, say a warper or a reaper leviathan, the dread comes from having to go to where you know danger lies, and not the surprise of having a new threat sprung upon you once every thirty minutes.

[@LanieMae]

The worst thing about this game is when your swimming at the surface of the ocean, you look down, and you can’t see the bottom. ESPECIALLY when it says “multiple leviathan class lifeforms detected” or the huge drop and when you go over it says “entering ecological deadzone”

[@furrietgdmobileplayer3672]

Subnautica is really a great game I can't tell it's horror or survival game but the design and story is really awesome About another planet!

[@Lunk42]

Its funny that with most other genres of games indie games seem to be way better than most triple A games now a days but when it comes to horror the indie horror games are almost always the worst of the bunch. Bloodborne is still one of the best horror games I've played and it's not even mainly a horror game so its kinda funny when you have these games that are being sold specifically as horror games failing at the one thing they were supposed to do.

[@AkutagawaSan]

My problem is that people only will put in so much effort into a part of the game and not try to put in the most effort into everything. Security Breach is actually a different case due to the fact that the game was gonna be very different from what it is now. The reason being that people bothering and asking them for the game, the harassment, people like Matpat creating theories about the whole game even though it never came out, and then not having enough time/ people not being patient.

[@fairymystonight1783]

MatPat isn’t the problem it’s the people that harassed the developers.

[@AkutagawaSan]

@@fairymystonight1783 watch his video about this. He even states that indie developers like poppy playtimes has altered there game after he makes a video and that indie developer should not just change the whole game after someone does a theory and might get it right and have predict the story.

[@AkutagawaSan]

@@fairymystonight1783 also technically yes it his. They had one thing set in mind and when looking at the things they scrapped there was supposed to be fully animated cutscenes but that was not the case. Also the Vanny and Vanessa swapping place thing was cut as well as a ton of other things.

[@TheHalogen131]

Never have I felt more old, than when you called Outlast an "older horror game". Jesus Christ...

[@elrohirshouldercheaptrick9452]

You know, there's a certain trope in horror franchises that's getting to be really annoying: It's the „Children of the main antagonist dies so the main villain tries to revive them, trapping souls in objects" or the „vengeful spirit traps souls inside objects to fuel their wrath" or the „Employees of this company that is definitely not evil get turned into monsters and now lust for blood"

[@BrainoConf]

It always comes back to FNAF.

[@sappytherobo]

My favorite horror game is kinda ironically: Pizzaria Simulator I really like the game not only being more interesting mix between Managing a Pizzeria and Fending Yourself against the animatronics you’ve let in. Also having a great ending to the base FNAF series

[@breakingawesome4888]

I love that you mentioned omori, it's a personal favorite of mine and feels like one of the few modern horror games of the last few years that's self-contained and actually has passion put into it. I could say the same for doki doki literature club for how unique it is and how creatively it does horror, even if some elements like the hidden "lore" in the files feel like its just there to bait theory videos

[@misterzygarde6431]

I had this idea of a fun spin on a horror game where the monster of a modern horror game has to survive against a more classic villain or you play as a villain killing your way through a modern horror game. Think Jason Vorhees fighting his way through Poppy Playtime or Bendy having to survive against Freddy Krueger

[@cactusgamingyt9960]

The first example would be doom but what I always wanted. I really fucking hate Poppy Playtime.

[@jaydenjones1374]

So Doom?

[@misterzygarde6431]

@@jaydenjones1374 well if you put it that way… sure

[@gjkdshgkjshjkgdfg]

Doom... but instead of demons its cringe ass modern "horror" games. A dream come true

[@TheOnlyCelciAndDontYouForgetIt]

This actually sounds like a really good idea for an Action Horror game ngl

[@topcat59]

Honestly I agree some Indy horror games are just designed to market their merchandise and their content, they never really focus on making a good horror games, They morally focus on making content that appeals to both MatPat and children.😑🐱

[@Noelle_Holiday]

I won't forget that moment in which TinyBuild once tweeted at Matpat, desperately begging him to make theories for Hello Neighbor.

[@nemogd7991]

Isn’t it indie? Not Indy? Because autocorrect immediately capitalized Indy meaning it’s probably a name or short for a country or something.

[@lavonpegramii819]

Topcat 59 nice profile pic

[@Cat-Nipples]

OooOOoOoohhHhH look its a SpOoKy CoLoRfUl tOy tHinG tHaTs goNnA sCrEaM aT u eVErY fUckINg sECoNd aNd iThAs LOOREE!!!!1!!!1;;1!

[@nicolebrown1874]

@@nemogd7991 indy is short for Indianapolis, capital city of Indiana

[@fluffcake]

I want a horror game that takes itself seriously and has some adult topics and is a lot like Silent Hill because the games may be standard to you but I think they have some excellent topics and unfortunately Konami had to fuck them over and I would have liked to see what topics they tackled.

[@biddleeewho4181]

FNAF Security Breach is probably the biggest fall from grace in modern gaming

[@callofthedragon6487]

I wouldn’t go that far.

[@IceColdPistol]

The existence of Iron Lung is the only thing giving me hope for the future of Indie Horror

[@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384]

Dusk-man wins again!

[@ACHILLES8887]

Thing is, Since its a GOOD horror Indie game thats gotten popular, soon we're gonna see the shitty clones

[@thefruityking6722]

Iron Lung is an outlier.

[@cralo2569]

iron lung is short, but signal simulator lasts as long as you can

[@Adam-sl8ot]

people are attracted to freddy for some reason now that he has a voice and acts like a guardian

[@Adam-sl8ot]

it's furries ofc but it's still weird ☠💀💀

[@hilotakenaka]

That implies that people WEREN'T attracted to him before

[@Adam-sl8ot]

@@hilotakenakathey were but not as much as the now so called "daddy" fazbear

[@DoctorTheo]

Hey its the internet, people will be attracted to anything.

[@snowarmth]

@@DoctorTheo Hey, cutie. :3

[@EnteringMyFlopEra]

I gotta bring up Spooky’s jumpscare mansion, which balanced good humor and genuinely scary monsters and areas along with a simple but sad story.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

It’s honestly quite ironic that despite featuring a cute-looking ghost girl and art style, Spooky’s Jumpscare Mansion is geniunely way more terrifying than whatever the modern “indie horror games for kids” has to offer (the later FNAF installments, BATIM, Poppy Playtime, Hello Neighbor, etc). It has background lore, yes, but the game doesn’t make it way too mysterious for its own good and tries to keep everything simple.

[@davy3832]

I'm so glad your channel is blowing up, dude. You've deserved it for a long time, and finally all of these topics are coming into proper bloom. From Suda to Sega, the wack shit is the real treat.

[@zokerovextis6768]

I think the problem with modern horror games is that they lack horror.

[@Ramsey276one]

I would love to see what I call Accidental Horror Something like: Your Rescued Dog is actually the Hound is Baskerville… but LOVES YOU. [put a DO NOT PET DOG sign]

[@Noelle_Holiday]

This description sounds like something that ManlyBadassHero would definitely play.

[@Ramsey276one]

@@Noelle_Holiday I wish I could code it… XD For now: “A random alligator sighting over here? I better be…” *BORF!* “Boffie? That sounded like… FULL BELLY…” Boffie: :-P “And there’s the gator… I think *ator* is all that’s left… Boffie: *BORF* :-P Good Doggo”

[@WriterNZane]

As someone who became inspired by Fnaf and Undertale, i really want to make my own video games. But it feels like everything now a days is some form of cash grab, and i dont want to be clumped into that shit show

[@oneofakind9995]

As so.eone who wants to ani.ate I can relate,seeing g high qaulity shows slaughtered, deformed story wise, or extended purely for money. Simaliarly to how these games integrity and story are fading. Just look at the new superhero girls that took so long to come out over its previous version due to lack of markability.

[@silveramyknux241]

Enchantedmob/Freddy and Pals are like if you took the ice cream of animation with effort and a fair amount of decent to good jokes, and mix that with the trash of KZbin kids laziness.

[@inkersbrew6370]

Enchantedmob basically exploited two kids doing all the work for their animations and bullied them too. They're trash :/

[@T_Teobokki]

Although I enjoy horror games with a more "childish" aim, I miss the old days where horror games didn't relied on constant jumpscares and focused more on the psychological horror and pure gore and body horror Also, silent hill is the best thing that ever happened to me

[@ghostlyhousehorrors]

Yeah even though I was too young for it at the time but boy the difference was jarring when my first introduction to horror games is Silent Hill and Resident Evil while my youngest relatives first horror is cartoonishly spooky FNAf and Poppy Playtime.

[@furrietgdmobileplayer3672]

Some horror games actually already focused on gore,lore,story,and mystery but they are not noticed much and so fast to die like Maybe Andy Apple farm,mr.hopp playhouse,little nightmare,they already did but the game just die so fast,probably just videos left...

[@statesminds]

A lot of people hate on visual novels but the new Digimon Survive is amazing mystery/horror done well. Highly recommend for the story if you’re a Digimon fan. Also Raging Loop, Worldend Syndrome, and Zero Escape do horror in VN form really well too. Obviously Corpse Party, Daganrompa, Higurashi When They Cry too. VNs are just an excellent medium for horror imo

[@marygraceoyangorin8918]

Hell yeah digimon! (even though I still can't play survive.....)

[@lenlordofknowledge]

I was at the airport a couple weeks ago, and I saw a girl no older than six holding a Kissy Missy plush while wearing a Kissy Missy hat. Despite the merch having really obviously creepy faces on it, this kid still had it. I just kinda felt sad looking at that, really

[@creed8712]

That’s weird. Do you think people felt the same way seeing kids play with robocop toys or Freddy action figures?

[@lenlordofknowledge]

@@creed8712 I mean, I’m not in the generation the original Robocop toys were marketed to, but my family was against me even owning anything with skulls on it until I was a teenager. I personally don’t like the idea of it until the kids are at least early teens since I was 14 when the original FNAF came out and I was watching everyone play it. Horror things beyond Goosebumps and such seem to work better for older kids since the subject matter’s more extreme. I mean, Goosebumps could be dark, but it was explicitly made for kids while FNAF seemed to be geared towards older audiences in the beginning

[@user-id3my6cr1r]

I bought a siren head plush from a street vendor who also sold all types of poppy playtime stuff. A few hours later in a cafe I saw a little boy also like 5 or 6 holding a huggy wuggy doll. Seriously disturbed, and not sure if he knows who the doll is.

[@-.RuhRoh]

@@lenlordofknowledge well, what’s inherently wrong with kids simply enjoying the horror genre?

[@-.RuhRoh]

@Max Mayfield No, what is inherently wrong with a kid enjoying horror content, that makes it so parents should shield kids from it? Horror is just entertainment. As long as it’s not EXTREME brutality and topics, there’s nothing wrong with kids enjoying scary things? Why should parents stop kids from enjoying scary things ??

[@mas8705]

I understand the whole thing for mentioning Matpat (and he did also bring this up himself too about the whole thing about Hello Neighbor too). On that same note, it is kind of a shame how it feels like all these horror games are blending into each other too. We are at a point where it feels like most/all horror games have taken this approach of seeming doing the same thing that was set by FNAF; they might deviate here and there, but the overall story telling feels like nothing new is happening and becomes more of a ploy to sell that merchandise because that's where the real money lies. It does seem like we need to have a new renaissance of horror games, and part of me is looking towards those where you play with others to not "Fight" but to survive. Someone mentioned GTFO, but there was this wonderful game called "Phasmophobia" where you have a team of paranormal investigators trying to identify what is spooking up a location and they have to do it before the entity itself choose to axe them off. Yeah, it is a gather fest a bit there, but it is the idea of having these bite size investigations to try and find that answer while the game itself torments you and everyone else. If anything else, we can say we need a refresh in horror. Much like how Zombie games have outstayed their welcome, this round of horror is getting over saturated to a point where you can't help but wonder about the irony of "Haunted mascots" that apparently scare you so much, you toss money at them.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

If you're looking for this experience, keep in mind that the newest installment of the Outlast franchise, The Outlast Trials, will be a multiplayer co-op game where you're playing with friends/strangers and work together to escape Murkoff's demented experiments. The closed beta will be coming out next month.

[@barrybend7189]

Hey Mangakamen please review Oban Star Racers. It's getting a 15th anniversary Blu Ray release and Sky Isle Studio is making a game for the series. It's development and history would also be interesting to look at as it's one of the most unlikely shows to get produced.

[@Dragonkid1801]

Aren't they also making a sequel?

[@barrybend7189]

@@Dragonkid1801 yes.

[@mobiledatano1787]

I did not expect to see Oban Star Racers here, I thought everyone forgot about that show

[@ha_des]

i worked with kids recently, 6-10 year olds. i mostly did manual activities like drawing and chalks. you don't even wanna know the NUMBER of huggy wuggy (and it's pink counterpart) drawings that i saw. there's a fair in town every year. we went with friends, and after walking for a bit, i stop. in front of me, a 5-meter tall, 10-meter large bright yellow display and on it, countless giant huggy wuggy plushies. might add that i live in France. this kind of niche merch is really, really not common - my 15yo self absolutely died with excitement when he had found a FNAF mug at a local reseller store. we just don't have that here. hell we don't even have merch of stuff in general, except in specialized stores. even Harry Potter t-shirts started to sell in big clothing stores only in the last few years. so this is wild to me.

[@kindred6453]

I didn't see it so much in their drawings but more in their gym time. they would play games that referenced squid games and poppy. which was really something when I first heard them talking about it.

[@retrox2776]

I have never played a horror game However if I ever will, I want stuff like Little nightmares. Not things that rely on shock value like jumpscares, just a creepy and tense atmosphere given off by your surroundings and antagonists