The Grade EVERYONE Can Reach

What is the Rock Climbing Grade Everyone can reach? A simple question with a not so simple answer, but I'll try anyways. Don't get caught up too much in the great grade game, just enjoy climbing from time to time. And don't forget to share your opinions and experiences down below, especially if they differ from mine since I'm always curious to hear new perspectives. See you soon!
The Grade EVERYONE Can Reach by Mani the Monkey
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Wind by Akeboshi (Outro)

[@performingartist]

I'm 48 - started climbing at 45. Was a very competitive runner. In my mid 40's I was running mid 17 5K. So I had the base athletisicm and a very low weight (125 lbs at 5' 9") I still run. I climb outside once a week and train in the climbing gym 2 times with 4 days of running and one or two strength sessions per week. I've got incredible climbing partners. I really wanted to be able to lead 6c cleanly by the end of this year and start projecting 7a. Here's the thing though that I'm finding. I know age is every day bringing the absolute limit further down. So every day I race that descending line and hope I reach my goal before the body just won't allow it any more. And it's very bad to start trying to push faster at this age. If you do you are so much more susceptible to injury than when you're 28. And if you do it takes so much longer to recover. Age is hard on tendons! But I have tonnes of fun routes at my local crag that are 6a+ to 6c. Now I see that climbing 7a might make me feel some sense of accomplishment but I don't think I'll have any additional fun. If I get there next year, great. If not....climb on

[@wheelbegood]

timcthefilmguy sooooo true to me, keep going, have fun Chears

[@ManitheMonkey]

Thanks for your story man, keep it up! For me it sounds like you will reach your goal!

[@Thrusthamster]

There are plenty of examples of people in their 60s climbing 5.14s, so if you stay injury free, the sky's the limit

[@rich666morris]

Hey Tim / Mani. I'm on the same road. Now aged 46 and started at 43. Love the sport and just wish someone put me on the rocks 30 years ago! What you've both said resonated with me. My Holy Grail is V6 boulder and I'm knocking on the door. Whether it opens or not, the challenge is fun and keeps me energised. Good luck Gents 🤘🏾

[@performingartist]

That's my bouldering goal as well. Have sent lots of V5, never a V6.

[@derekboocock4462]

When I was in my 20's to 30's I climbed E6 6b in the Peak District, UK. I haven't climbed for about 30 years and have just had a knee operation that means my left knee has a maximum current bend of 100 degrees. I've just started climbing again as a way of rehabilitating the movement in the knee. 3 weeks ago I was European 4a, now I'm 5a. That's pretty low, but I do hope I can steadily increase. Let's see how far I can get at 63 years old.

[@Twenty_69]

Hi, did you progress much? :)

[@derekboocock4462]

@@Twenty_69 I'm now climbing 6b. I think technique never goes away...

[@Twenty_69]

@@derekboocock4462 Nice! Congrats!

[@jakesevins5179]

This is a very intelligent video. So much more honest and insightful than people who are top pros (who are genetically gifted) tell us "you can do anything if you just put your mind to it." Uhh... nope. As Mani says, determination does matter, but it's not ALL that matters.

[@jurc6]

I could say that is somewhat true. For most people. I read that genetics peace writen by Eric Horst some 10 years ago. I was stuck at the 7a+/7b range for 3 years. When I reaf that part of the book I got angry. I was still so hungry for harder climbs. So I stoped reading Horst and thought to myself I am going to break that rule. After that year i managed to improve one grade each year. So I have send several 8b routes last two years, and three days ago my project route for this year got wet. It will stay wet until march or so. It is 8b+ and I fell on top 11 times this last month. My goal is to do it and I have a couple more waiting. I recently started a training program and I bet I can get better. Determination is almost everything.

[@neo778]

"Climbing is more then grade chasing!", which is the most important attitude if you want to have fun. What I experienced while climbing outdoor outes is, that falling most is less dangerous, when you climb higher grades (6/7). The routes are vertical or overhanging and there are less plateaus ("Absatz") inside the route, where falling can be painful. Maybe you wan to make an episode about falling on outdooor routes. I recomend the videos "loosing the fear of falling" recorded in "Tonsai".

[@tacticalchunder1207]

Franz73 yes it is more important, but it's in our nature to quantify things, and grades allow us to do that with our progress.

[@m3lfbreezy]

"loosing the fear of falling" would highly appreciate this.

[@ManitheMonkey]

I'll do my best guys, thanks for all the input!

[@performingartist]

After a freak fall just about a year ago in which I fractured my ankle and tore my medial ligament in three places .I had to get back my joy being on the rock. I had really lost my mojo as it took months before I could climb properly and run again. I was mad at climbing for taking away my running. Once I was able to climb again just three months ago I was really afraid because I knew if I fell and reinjured my ankle that would be it for me at 48 years old. Day In Nature and her fear of falling series was EXACTLY what I needed. I did the exact same thing she said to do and demonstrated and it worked! Within a week I was climbing above protection again without getting freaked out. Highly recommended

[@TerjeMathisen]

When I learned to climb in the seventies, the rule was "The leader should NEVER fall", because almost all climbing was in the mountains at grade 4-5+, where as you state falling is very dangerous. After a visit to the Gunks in upstate New York I learned the same thing you did, i.e. falling on hard overhanging climbs with good protection is completely safe. I used to describe this type of climbing as rock gymnastics instead of climbing or mountaineering.

[@ManitheMonkey]

By the way: Big congrats to Adam for the recent upgrade of humanity, yet again! This man is a true inspiration!

[@jeffarmstr0ng]

Do you have any plans to do a video on climber's elbow in the near future?

[@jamalnoshahi6303]

Mani, wouldn't you say that Adam's recent accomplishment is a result of him turning away from his genetics and focusing more on determination? As in, he's ignoring genetics now because he has reached that border and now is focusing on pushing the determination border more?

[@ahmedyousry9795]

I am 37 years old, 187 cm , 68 kg, vegan. Started climbing one year ago only. Climbing twice a week only because i need to work. I climb now 7a+ indoors and 6b+ outdoors. Wht do u think about my progress Mani??

[@trinidadcollier9437]

Ahmed Yousry my question is why it matters that you’re vegan. This is why people don’t take vegans seriously.

[@Mike-oz4cv]

I think the most important factor for any sport is how resistant you are to injuries. If you can train two times every day of the week without suffering from injuries or overtraining it’s a huge advantage.

[@anosnd]

I started climbing seriously when I turned 30 and am about to be 33. The only thing in my life that I feel jealousy about or wish I could change is that I wish I could have been introduced to climbing at a young age. The age factor is a serious part of the puzzle and I'm glad to see it talked about in this video. I've had a few moderate injuries so far probably because my determination and privilege far surpass my age and genetics. For us who are serious about climbing, but weren't born with "perfect" athletic bodies or raised climbing, grade chasing needs to come second to injury prevention I feel.

[@rishabhanand4973]

definitely. I started at a younger age than you. But for me, the way i see it, i'm never gonna be a pro, so climbing is just a hobby for me, a way to stay in shape. So i don't want to do anything that risks my life or could get me injured

[@kamron_thurmond]

I'm 30 years old and I started climbing a month ago, and I'm also lucky to have a brand new climbing gym 4 miles away. I've got kind of a rusty feeling left shoulder, but I think climbing is actually helping strengthen it because lately it's felt slightly better. (Knock on wood) I've also kind of been climbing stuff since I was a toddler. Trees, furniture, doorways, etc. I even sent a pillar in a Walmart when I was 3 years old. When I started climbing at the gym I was able to send any 5.9 easily and 5.10 was challenge, but doable. Didn't try bouldering till my 3rd visit. Was able to send up to V2 it was hard but doable (Been maybe 8 times now) can send most V3 fairly easy, and even did a soft V4.

[@povilas_sako]

All what really matters in climbing starts at 13:26

[@prout123456789123456]

What if determination is ALSO an effect of genetics ??

[@francescodipietro4340]

Mindblown

[@benruefmedia]

Or rather, an effect of privilege, of environmental behavioral psychological factors. Perhaps

[@noahdouble07]

Coping

[@jeromymostert5663]

@Luc Viet ahn - in his book Super Human, Rowan Hooper writes that people with genetics are sometimes motivated to work/ train harder because of the genetic influence

[@jetjaxon]

As you say, it's dependent on a few variables. Funny thing is, when I first started climbing 3 years ago, I used to google search for - what genetics is required to climb 7a, can anyone climb 7a etc. Then climbed my first 7a last year, and now on 7b, with a bit more experience, I think it's feasible for me to climb 8a, and an outside possibility on a decade time frame for 8b/8b+. Having said that, I started at 30, but I'm thin, 6 foot and positive ape index. The privilege thing brings up a point though - as you get older, you can move to a good climbing spot, get a well paying job etc. to allow yourself more focus on climbing... I think privilege probably plays more of a factor for people

[@Nine7Media]

What does your typical week look like in terms of training/climbing?

[@AsteaFrosty]

Thanks for sharing; I also started at 30! 7a in 2 years sounds about right. I'm almost there myself. Pandemic closures have made it hard but slowly progressing :) I did have some pole vaulting experience from high school (lots of pull ups involved there) so that gave me a head start.

[@jetjaxon]

@@AsteaFrosty sounds right. I'm knocking on the door of 8a project right now and have climbed V10 this year.

[@MyMusiqueLive]

Yup! I wanted to climb ever since I was 7 years old, but my parents didn't speak good English and worked a lot, so clearly they didn't know about all these climbing gyms and youth clubs. I could have started at 16, when I started working, but I got distracted, so thats my fault. I am 27 now and am in a better position (in time, money, and focus) to get more serious :)

[@TerjeMathisen]

Mani, I've just celebrated my 60th birthday, and my current top level is definitely going down. :-( When (and where) I grew up in Norway in the sixties there was no local climbing at all, but I was the kind of kid who always climbed up everything I could see, be it the tallest tree in the area or just a slab of rock. I did a lot of different sports, summer and winter, but it was when I started university in Trondheim in 1977 that I first got introduced to actual rock climbing. At that point I improved very quickly and soon after I joined the university gymnastics team, just to get some relevant winter training (remember we had no climbing gyms in all of Norway at this time). My genetics are probably OK since I'm 171 cm (5'7) tall and weigh less than 60 kg, while my finger strength quickly improved to where I could carry full body weight on a single finger. The main problem was probably that nobody else in the region was climbing anything harder than norwegian grade 5+ or 6, so when I started looking at grade 7 I had problems finding belayers. I got up to a total training level of 1100 hours/year, during a trip to the US in 1981 I found that I had a psychological limit between US 5.11d and 5.12a: I flashed almost all 5.11c & d routes and always took at least one fall on the 5.12 a & bs. :-( A few years later I stopped climbing and only did other sports until I got to spend a year in Utah 1991-92: A rock gym had just opened in Provo and I got to train there 3-4 times/week, so at the end of this year I was leading 5.12c/d (at an age of 35), but that was my lifetime peak. Since then I have been training periodically, mostly just once or twice a week, and that is just sufficient to maintain my level around norwegian 7/7+ and sometimes 8- with a lot of effort, but my body can't take that kind of abuse more than maximum 3 times/week. What it means is that past a given age you don't train to become better but to reduce the rate of deterioration. :-)

[@jacccs]

Well I'm popping down to Flatanger tomorrow to flash that new route, whatever it's called, I reckon anyone could reasonably reach that kinda level. Ondra is definitely an alien btw

[@TheBlackFriesian]

MCMF correction, Honnold* is more of an alien.

[@max_4209]

@@TheBlackFriesian honnold didnt even climb as hard routes as mani

[@skahatoad]

my buddy did a 5.13 at 65!

[@derekbelanger7839]

your friend is my hero! :-)

[@kimchee94112]

Wow 5.13 at 65! 5.11c is hard enough at that age. I believe the hardest indoor route is something like 5.12 maybe even 5.13 at my gym. My neighbor does 5.14 (pretty special I think) but he ain't no 65.

[@TheBlackFriesian]

skahatoad is his name Jim Thornburg?

[@skahatoad]

John Fantini.

[@grahamhenry9368]

Hey Mani, You should do a video on breathing techniques and strategies.

[@Sam-us5ys]

Nice Vid as always! I am bouldering for a good year now, climbing for 8 months and now do 6b / + routes without too much of an effort (still not onsight grade). My main motivation to improve in grade is just to be able to climb more at the crag. I want to look at 10 routes in a crag and possibly do 7 of them. There is nothing more heartbreaking than not being able to try a beautiful route yourself!

[@ManitheMonkey]

Thanks! Absolutely true, this was also my main motivation in the beginning. Keep it up and more amazing climbing will unveal itself to you!

[@teste3724]

Really interesting video, man. Hope to see your channel grow as climbing becomes more popular. Definitely a channel to watch if you're trying to learn about the sport.

[@ManitheMonkey]

Thanks man, glad you liked it!

[@T5chrono]

Eric Hoerst writes about it in "How to climb 5.12". He states that on average human being is capable of reaching 5.12. However, your arguments are much more precise. Genetics play a major role and you wont do shit about it. I also wonder if there could be mental aspect involved as well? Fear management, visualization, focus. I mean look at Alex Honnold - alongside physical power he has also mental game on above average level. And props for you for not bullshiting that everyone can be whoever they want to be.

[@Jeremiah15100]

11y

[@Ptitviaud1337]

Great effort at one difficult question. I wholy agree on your choice of factors that will set the limit of what you can climb, but i have i slightly different opinion on how they unfold : i think that very few people actually encounter their genetic limit,which, in a way, in the "ultimate" limit. You will face this limit only if you give climbing enough time and energy, which is not that common : people usually dont have structured training or dont even want to try hard on the sport. In addition, i think that if you are sufficiently motivated, you will get to this genetical limit : but after a long practice of climbing, probably 15 years or so. And the more you are gifted, the more time you will have to spend on climbing to get to this genetical limit. My opinion is that if you have 10 to 15 years of "physical aptitude" left, you can get to 8a/7B, if you are at least somewhat organized/structured/efficient, whithout giving climbing 100% of your time. This it at least my opinion, and my personnal experience so far. Great video as usual.

[@catherinehughes2683]

Hi Mani - love your channel. Thanks for all the great content. As a 55 year old climber since 11 years old, you make me laugh calling us middle-aged climbers ‘advanced age’.

[@brainscrub7976]

The actual difficulty of the grade also plays a part in this, since grades are always more or less subjective. 7a is not exactly the same in one gym compared to another, or even outdoors in different areas, so which grade you reach also depends on in which gym or area you happen to climb in. You might do a 7b easily in one gym, but struggle with 7a in a different gym. So like the video concludes, don't worry too much about the numbers.

[@Mike-oz4cv]

True. It also helps a lot if a route plays to your strengths.

[@noahchicoine4780]

Thank you for mentioning privilege growing up I did a lot of other sports, hiking, whitewater kayaking, skiing. And I got very good at most of them. But it was because I had access to a river, access to a local ski hill. AND my parents made sure I learned how to ski at a very young age. I did rock climbing maybe 5x in my life when I was in high school and I absolutely loved it but the gear/access to places to go/gyms made it the one sport I really couldn't "get into" I even bought a lot of gear at one point in time but couldn't find anyone to really go with on a regular and everywhere to go was WAY too far away to make it a regular thing. Now I'm 36, with a family, and I live with a gym 1.5 miles from my house. I finally got a membership and I go climb hard every time I can. I know I'm never going to go hardcore in my lifetime, I'll probably be stuck on V0-2 for the whole of my career; I missed my prime, but I still really enjoy it none the less. But I'm trying to make sure that my son has access to climbing when he's ready since it was the one sport I really wanted to do that I never really got to do growing up.

[@codewithmarcel1]

Hey mani, what would you rate yourself under this 4 factors? Would be interesting to know. Thanks

[@hatefulmonday]

I loved your video Mani! I understand what you said but I think I will continue to be the naive guy here. I have some goals and I have no idea about my genetics but I can say that my determination is so high that I will do it =P For me, it's a circle : I belive that I can reach my goals (long or short term ones) so my motivation is super high. At the same time, I m stocked so I train for it and I will reach them! Simply as that hahaha Keep the good work man! Keep on climbing hard!

[@olivia-bv3ms]

Thanks for this. I’m not a natural athlete at all- in fact, I’d say I have a huge lack of natural talent when it comes to sports, especially climbing. I’ve been climbing for 7 years (I started when I was 9) and train about 15-20 hours a week (hangboarding, weight training, cardio, etc.) and have JUST started to break into V8/5.13a. I’ve always been annoyed at not having good genetics, as I feel like I have to work twice as hard as most of my friends to climb the same grades, but this puts it into perspective.

[@idance0001]

I'm 23 years old. I fell in love with rock climbing 1,5 years ago. A month ago I climbed my first 6c boulder. 5c boulders are becomming easy for me. And I send more and more 6a/6b boulders. I climb 3 times a week for 2,5 hours. It's fun to get better, that's for me the fun of climbing to get better. Trying wich moves I can and I cannot do. Sometimes I like easy routes more because of the style and the movement. I don't always push for the hardest routes. I just do what I like to do: climbing. But yes, it's nice to push your own limits. I wish everyone the best and fun in climbing!

[@twariik8550]

I love how you say „its my opinion“ and saying just enjoy it and have fun :)

[@KingJangOng]

I'm 15 and I started climbing 4 months ago and im leading 6c, and boulder v5. My dad rock climbed for 20 years, and he always thought I would be good at it. Was always pretty good at climbing things, and I already have pretty good finger strength, so I'm sure that helps.

[@rdyjur]

love what u said at the end about grade chasing.

[@bluemarblebig3290]

Many thanks for shedding a different light on the Grade factor.. I always come away with something good from your vids!

[@Elpela96]

I agree. I started at 15, trained as much as I possibly could, and now at 21 I'm struggling a lot to improve.. (your videos help quite a bit) and grade chasing isn't that bad, after all, it allows you to climb a greater amount and variety of routes. Nice climbing by the way, crazy mobility

[@coolbrotherf127]

I just got into climbing after a gym was finally built in my area. Before I would have had to drive 2 hours away to climb so it wasn't ideal. I can now train daily which has been so enjoyable so far.

[@arnesl929]

I have read that the 7th French grade about 7b/c is what most (some what fit) people can reach, but going in to the 8th demand more special dedication and or genetics. I feel that on crimps I am starting to work against my genetics and age (fingers) on lower grades than on say slopes or pinches. Most outdoor routes here are on crimps however. I am trying to train almost only open hand excepting the my crimping power might not improve that much, and see how that works

[@climbscience4813]

I would agree with that. I'm currently projecting 7a and I'm neither genetically gifted nor young and only moderately privileged. I think 7b/c should be possible at some point for me, but I'm not sure if it will go any higher...

[@arnesl929]

ClimbScience For me it felt like hitting a wall around 7a+ 7b. (Going for the round grade Norwegian 8 blank.) But that might be partly due to training effort put into it also. But I still think 7c would be very hard to achieve for me.

[@qweasd9153]

Started at 22, got one 7A bouldering problem in the first 6-8 months, can consitently do 6Cs in the gym but had to dial back because my fingers tendons couldn't take the volume and intensity that I was putting. So I agree with you that starting early and genetics are two most important aspects of climbing. I initially thought I could reach grades 8 or 9 after 10-15 years of training but after a few injuries and a dislocated shoulder I feel that I just started too late and my body won't be able to hold up until then. I still enjoy climbing and stopped caring about grades, just aim to get stronger when I'm feeling good and staying injury free.

[@SonnyKnutson]

@Mani the Monkey Old EP, I know but I think this is what is so great about climbing. Because you are competing against yourself in almost every regard. Unless you compete professionally against others then all you do is compete against yourself. Trying to progress to a higher level. Not surpass others. But surpass yourself :)

[@hugobelouet2027]

Just that kind of videos that are actually amazing and intersting as ever

[@tim.noonan]

Another point is epigenetics... the manifestation of one's genes through one's physical and cognitive behaviors. Basically, if you do other things that lend themselves to climbing, you'll get better at climbing simultaneously. For example, I spent nearly ten years playing and marching in drumlines in marching bands and drum corps throughout the US, and the demands of the sport (yes it absolutely a sport) on my hands/fingers, core, and lower body absolutely lent themselves to climbing, specifically in finger strength, movement/body awareness, and compression power (I love scuttling up aretes!). Genetics are not a help or hindrance on their own, but merely a starting point! Great video Mani!

[@bobfett7577]

Really enjoyed your video! I just got into climbing and I fall into the older dudes list. I've found myself getting frustrated with some of the more challenging routes, but I'm slowly figuring out what my limits are. Honestly this video made me feel a lot better about my situation, and I also realize I need to stop comparing myself to others that have been at this for a lot longer than I have. I do notice the improvements, but I'm having fun, so I need to focus on that more than progressing at this point

[@albertohart5334]

13:28 what is the purples of this video

[@casidilla9326]

I'm a beginning rock climber, started about two/three months ago at 14 with a very average height weight ratio for a female (5'4, 115 lb). I had been working on my upper body for years beforehand, mostly with pull-ups and other calisthenics. So far i can complete most v2, about 50% of v3, and only a couple v4. Since I've already developed a good amount of upper body strength, I don't really know how my genetics contribute to my strength composition. Right now I'm pretty excited every time I go to the gym, and that's definitely played a role in my fairly quick improvement.

[@py2706]

Awesome video. Very well explained.

[@abuzarov]

I started at age 33, now I'm 43, I'm not especially healthy, but I'm pretty slim. I had climbing periods when I was climbing 3-4 times a week and I also had periods when I didn't climb for a year. The hardest lead climb I did is 6b+ (22 Ewbank) and 6c/6c+ on top rope (24 Ewbank)

[@heineaugustjensen9819]

started climbing two months ago and i love this sport, i do bouldring primarely. im 193 and im 65 kilos now (ive had some trouble with eating when i was like 14-16 now im 19 and i havent really bothered since im not dangerouslh underweight now) and i wasnt strong in any sort of the imagination when i started but its gotten alot better especially with fingerstrength. im struggling with my endurence and core strength but being so light and long reach has its perks.

[@foryourlugsonly]

My current Grade is 6b+ verging on 6c. I think I would still be climbing 6a max if I hadn't set a goal to send. That goal is a 7a+ E grade trade route. So a long way to go but it's making my climbing fun by competing with myself and my buddy daily.

[@climbscience4813]

I think I would agree with your stance! Of those factors you mentioned I only have determination and privilege on my side really and privilege isn't really that good as I can only go climbing 2x per week due to work and family obligations. I feel that in bouldering age is even more important than in route climbing, as I feel that you loose explosiveness much quicker than power endurance. I have even seen two guys bouldering for only a year being able to send harder stuff than me. Granted, they were all around 18-22, genetically gifted, had the time and determination to go bouldering 5-6 times a week and had a background in some other sport. In route climbing that doesn't happen really. Basically all people on my level have been climbing for years. Maybe my bouldering just sucks compared to my route climbing... :-)

[@geoffreywesterlund8601]

Awesome video man! I still might argue that determination plays a more important role though. It could also just be because I'm 5'11'' and 185 lbs and built more for cardio and running and want to push against that because I love climbing and my ultimate climbing dream is to ascend El Capitan. I also started at 21 and took a break for a little over a year too so I'm trying to push against that, too. Definitely determined to improve though. Grade chasing has also been a major part of my journey. I think it is more to track improvement and compete with my past self though. I still enjoy climbing and love meeting new people. I also try to track improvement on a quality level instead of quantity, but there is something that just feels great about sending that 5.12b or 5.13a for the first time.

[@rhythmPhil]

Thanks for your channel, it's very informative. Small comment related to age. I think that a limiting factor for older people is that they are more injury prone. You can be super determined and fit, but still unable to train as often as you'd like to. This may slow down progress.

[@timh694]

I find the best routes at the gym are the ones not graded yet, climb=>have fun. I am a bit blessed with good physiology and a sporting background, went from 5.8 to 5.12a in like 9 months, but now I have to train, also helps to train when there is a lock down so you don't feel so fat when the gym open up again =D

[@emurray100]

55 Here, average genetics and average build - not super fat, not super skinny. 5'10, 170 lbs. Climbing for 6 months and currently am at 5.11b My goal is 5.12 after 1 year. So... .there is hope! Stick with it.

[@venomdog747]

Awesome video as always!

[@havocdevelopment6142]

I climbed for the first time ever this week. And did some bouldering. Was solid and easy from v0 to v3 was about 60%On v4 and had 2 v5s i tried and got one done after a couple tries. I'm 25 years old never played any sports really. But i do physical work for a living and im 6'4 225 lbs with a fair/average build

[@fxc5313]

Great video!

[@Alex.i]

May you please make a video with details on how you have set up the fingerboard behind you? Tools used and from where you bought them. Tnx!

[@damiensmith8351]

There is one in the "gear and DIY stuff" section on the playlists. I'm doing one in the new year, dave MacLeod sell similar ones, called power stations. Nothing too difficult to put together.

[@AVPML]

I got to thank cause talking about facilities, most of the times we forget that training hard at something is not as easy as saying it. You have to "own" much of your lifetime. ..and working,studying and having any social life is a big amount of time tp spend in

[@buntbar2438]

You set the Bar very high in my Opinion. I consider myself genetically giftet and determined. But to be honest, climbing the Grades you mentioned is not what I was even dreaming of. ...until now of Course. Thank you for that! :) LG BB

[@tsizzle]

Can you get into the details about what make favorable/great genetics for climbing? Flexibility, body shape/leanness, upper body strength? What about mentality?

[@lacivertumutkazankaya2042]

Just started climbing today at the ripe age of 47. I really don’t know what to expect but I am 1.75, and with the intention of climbing, I lost 21 kilos in the last 6-7 months down to 72kgs and train 4-5 times a week at the gym. Hope to climb interesting routes and enjoy camping.

[@ToewangJones]

Hi Mani, Can you please do a video on what you need to start sport climbing. I've been climbing for a little over a year now all indoors and primarily bouldering along with some top rope indoor climbing(no lead experience yet). I want to get started with lead climbing indoors and outdoors. I currently have shoes, chalk and a harness. Thanks, Torren

[@BiggieChungulus]

Hearing what you said at 8:37 has me like "damn" cuz I just watched ur genetics video and it's not lookin good for me lol

[@nolyspe]

I honestly expected you to say that in the end it doesn't really matter. I mean it's OK to want to reach a super high grade that other climbers can't, but I believe that the best attitude to have is that the only climber that you have to outclimb is yourself. And that even if there's a maximum grade that you can reach, there are endless problems for you to climb within that grade, and thus endless fun to have, countless trips, sessions with friends, etc... and all the things that makes us enjoy climbing.

[@IronJohn755]

Great video. I've been climbing consistently for 2+ years, started at 40 with pretty good fitness for my age. I'm relatively tall and light. In that time span I've gone from climbing 5b/5.9 to 7a/5.11c/d. I think with another year of climbing I'll eventually break through to flashing 5.12 routes, at least on top rope, but I honestly can't imagine pushing beyond that. After popping two finger pulleys, I realized that your limits are determined in part by things that are beyond mindset and effort. I think most people with a healthy BMI can eventually climb a properly-graded 6c. 7a probably requires some advantages like height/weight ratio or athleticism that are achievable by ~25% of the people you see in a typical gym. Above that (7b and up) the demands on your fingers are so high that you need to start young to develop them, the demands on your pulling strength are so high you need good genetics and training, and the demands on your technique are so high that you need to put in a lot of hours. My 11 year old daughter is pretty close to me grade-wise. Her technique is not as good, but she's light and resilient. In other words, start young and work hard, or just enjoy yourself and don't expect to break any records.

[@HebboBoss]

would like a hold like that in plasic. imagine like a big hold with a whole in it shaped like that. u always have those fav holds and i wanna get more of em yaknow.

[@matthewj6692]

I would like you to watch the film Gattaca. It has a perfect way of comparing genetics vs determination. I also believe that genetics makes things much easier; but raw determination (the hungry wolf) has the potential of beating someone genetically inclined to succeed...although I would mention that this is rare; because most people lack spirit/aggressive qualities/determination.

[@rishabhanand4973]

i guess a more specific question is if someone has bad or average genetics, started climbing as a young adult, and has easy access to a gym but climbing is secondary to the rest of their life such as work and family but they like to work out frequently and climbing is their main form of working out, what grade could they reach? But i guess the grade everyone _could_ reach would be take someone who has bad genetics, but easy access to a climbing gym (cuz if you don't have that, you're not advancing any grades) and high determination, what grade could they reach?

[@juanbreinlinger]

Great Wolfgang Güllich used to say "the brain is the most important muscle for climbing".

[@ManitheMonkey]

To be honest I rather believe it's the forearm :)

[@derekbelanger7839]

I'm very similar to your 40ish scenario. There is a good gym very close to home and I climb twice a week (no trainer). Started @ 39 and four years later I can climb 5.12 and V9. This video was very interesting to me because I've been wondering if it would be possible, with training, to get V10 (because I enjoy bouldering most). I'll have to go for it soon or the window will close. Just haven't decided if it will be worth the commitment it will take.

[@jetjaxon]

If you can climb V9, you should be able to climb 5.13 with a bit of endurance no? V9 after 4 years, at 39 is awesome btw!

[@derekbelanger7839]

@jacksonclimbs Thx :-) Actually 44 soon. Your right, probably should be able to do 5.13s. Have made meaningful attempts on a few, but never sent one. I just don't have the same love for ropes and don't climb them much. Just watched your vlog Limit Bouldering at Inspire - cruised most of that V9 bro! Amazing finger strength.

[@jetjaxon]

derek belanger ha ha yeah, probably a V6 outdoors though... which is what I project outdoors atm in the Grampians.

[@pilorom]

V9 on the rock or gym? There's a huge difference between both, either way it's already a great level!!

[@derekbelanger7839]

Ah, gym only..... and thanks.

[@tyrone5643]

great vid. keep up the great work

[@furkanakkaya6433]

I started climbing at age of 24 and 1.5 year later I could climb 7b+, 2.5 years later 7c+, in my third year of climbing I sent my first 8a+ and six months after that my first 8b and my 4th year first 8b+. I think I have good genes and determination also. I love to see my improvement every year in this sport.

[@sheaedwards1999]

Hi mani, i'm 18, climbing for nearly 3 years and hitting 6b+ at max. Is this good/bad? Love this channel, keep up the work. Respect from Derry, Ireland 🇮🇪

[@MacHalaG]

It's like this with all the sports. Climbing isn't exception at all. It's just that it requires more skill (e.g. everyone can run, so natural dispositions are more obvious), so it may be sometimes a bit misleading when you see someone who has obviously better physique than you (or you know that he's better in sports overall) and you see him struggling on routes that you can do without problems. But it just means that you put in more effort than him, not that just sky is your limit...

[@UnknownvV]

23 been climbing 5 months can do 5.10+ I hope to get much better.

[@abryant5258]

Mani I agree with much of what you said in this video. However I think you left out a key aspect of training. (Maybe you could call it #5) A partner. A team of climbers will feed off each other and push each other. Also they might help you unknowingly by pushing you to another aspect of climbing (I.e.: my partner likes to boulder and I'm not a fan of bouldering) and that will help overall climbing goals. Also who belays you when you climb outdoors?

[@kraljich990]

I would say that might fall under privilege, since if you live somewhere where the climbing community is strong, you have a very good chance of finding a good climbing partner. Maybe social skills help as well haha, I don't know if that's part of the genetics though. But yeah in general I think a good partner is a key to better climbing.

[@abryant5258]

kraljich990 good catch! I didn't even think of it like that. I've only recently started climbing but I've noticed that once I got a partner my progress has grown leaps and bounds in a very short period of time.

[@AlexeiDrummond]

I am now 44. I started climbing for the first time in a gym in December 2018 (when I was 42). I started lead climbing outdoors in March 2019. I have a lot of privilege (I am a University Professor) and a lot of determination (climbing is the only thing I do outside of work pretty much). I don't think my genetics are that great. I am 176cm tall and 69kg. My reach is 179cm. My finger strength is not very good. I can do ~12 full body weight pull-ups and my max hang on 20mm edge is only around +23% bodyweight. I have been outdoor lead climbing for 15 months. I have climbed five 7A routes and 2 7A+ routes and I am close to climbing another two 7A+ routes. My goal was to climb 7B by July this year and at least five routes of every grade below that. Where do you think I can get to? I feel like 7B might be close to my limit, but I still get stronger and more proficient in a lot of ways as the months go by. Obviously age is not on my side :)

[@amethyst8399]

I think strategy and skill play way bigger roles than genetics ever could. Look at people like Dave Graham or Giuliano Cameroni, they aren't freakishly strong but just understand movement really well, which I think is infinitely more important than genetics. I personally think if you're under thirty, able bodied, have access to good hard climbing of some kind, and are in decent shape I think that for men 8A+ boulder and 8C sport is attainable. For women I'd say 8A boulder and probably 8B+ sport.

[@alessandramarins3530]

Nice video as allways, but I miss coments on how it is for women?

[@gerhardh4055]

Well I guess he has no perspective on that matter. But given that women at the top climb only around 2 French grades lower than men, I guess you could just subtract 1 or 2 grade from the max grade a men can reach and that is the grade a woman with similar factors could reach

[@FOXTR0T1]

True story about genetics VS determination/privilege: My buddy Cody is the Surefire 3 gun world champion in the limited and scope-tac categories. (3 gun is a pistol, rifle, shotgun shooting competition.) Anyways, he's the world champion competing against guys from the US Army marksmanship team. These guys are the best shooters the US military has to offer and they get thousands upon thousands of rounds provided to them just so they can train. My buddy Cody beats them every year in multiple categories, but the thing is, Cody only goes shooting maybe 3-4 times a year, shooting maybe 300 rounds each time. Cody is just for some reason naturally better at shooting than the average person. He has the right genetic recipe for success in that sport, and no matter how hard others train, no matter how many rounds they get provided to practice, it wont be enough.

[@jacobsack]

ive just turned 16 and ive been climbing for nearly 3 years, so far my max grade is v7 and everyone seems to think i will be amazing in the future but i have a hard time believing that

[@ManitheMonkey]

V7 at 16 is definitely good, keep at it!

[@CatFatism]

Structured arguments, nice discussion!

[@eltankos]

Hi Mani, Been enjoying your videos for a while, and the tips are helpful, I like your scientific approach to things. Where is the climb you keep cutting to in the video? Looks pretty sweet.

[@JH-qe3fu]

I am 1m93 and I can testify that climbing is for small people!

[@icetigeryurio2721]

J H I am 1m55 and I can testify that I have been climbing since I was ten (I’m 15 now) for 15 hours a week and I have only gotten to a V3. Sorry dude, but he is kinda right, genetics are everything...

[@Javr175]

When did you begin climbing? Im not sure if you ve already done a video about that, so sorry for my ignorance hahah

[@albertohart5334]

started march (8 months ago) and climbing like v7 (13)

[@Trumpumpumpum]

Thank you for another great video! It's really a hard question. Mani, I guess you were talking more about "perfect world". What I mean, maybe most people will use genetic factor more like an excuse, you know. Because how anyone can tell if he truly reached his genetic potential and if his problems are caused by genetic potential and not by non-efficient training, and so on..

[@franciscodesantiagorequejo126]

7a is equivalent to 11d, 7c -12d, 7c+ - 13a and 8a -13b

[@EveryoneHarmonyPeace]

Most of the climbers can reach 5.10. With a bit more hardwork and training, they can reach 5.11. If you climb and train longer you can reach 5.12. 5.13 is the part where most people can't reach. Although most climbers didn't reach 5.12 but they could, if they willing to.

[@livingstonecole769]

The four important determinants controlling the progress a climber can expect to make in the sport of rock climbing were brilliantly discussed: GENETICS, an early start, opportunities and facilities, and DETERMINATION! You are privileged to live in the EU and in the fantastic country of Austria. Innsbruck is my favorite city.

[@travisbettison8655]

Any tips for improving your genetics?

[@icetigeryurio2721]

Travis Bettison it’s not possible

[@kunstkt]

Impregnate Adam Ondra then transfer your conciousness into the fetus. Pop out of his belly Alien-style for extra points.

[@mikawelter5463]

19 years old 8b climbed good technique not so good physique curious where it‘s gonna go!!!

[@danielbuijs8647]

Genetics is completely right! Started climbing 1,5 years ago when I was 15, about half a year in my climbing, I could do like 5c. Then this new Guy came and after a few months he climbed 6b+ all of a sudden while I was struggling on 6a. He didnt take it very seriously, he was Just messing around. Then all of a sudden he climbed 6c's and almost 7a, I was still at 6a😂. I was like wtf!? But also this Guy was too light Weight, if you know what I mean. But it still proves that genetics are important, although I am determined that I Will improve too.

[@ManitheMonkey]

I know what you mean, there are always these guys :) But honestly, you gotta see it as a challenge, if it's coming too easily, it's not worth having. Enjoy the struggle, and the reward will be great. Keep it up, you will improve!

[@danielbuijs8647]

@@ManitheMonkey BTW its funny I trained technique for like the past 1,5 years and how im now getting better than those kids who walked in and pulled themselves up 6b's in 3 months.

[@oliviabaklaton4552]

Every new grade you reach is just a grade away from the next one you want to reach. Your aim should be at least 5c/6a. Usually the rock - especially in the mountains, multiple pitches - is of a much better quality than below 5 c.

[@SM-wr3jr]

Mani have you read the book Bounce by Matthew Syed? It's about the myth of talent and the power of hard work/determination. If so, would be interested to know what you think in the context of what you re genetics here. Thanks

[@ManitheMonkey]

nope, but talent is definitely not a myth (: what I will say though is that some sports/disciplines depend more on talent/genetics than others.

[@gertjangoetynck5074]

You mention reach as a genetic factor, but how about physical strenght? I personally am a shorter guy (1m68), started climbing seriously a year ago at the age of 25 (3 sessions a week at least, 2 of which are only 2 hours long but they are with a training group, supervised by professional trainers. The other session is about 4 hours on average without a supervisor). I never did any sports before climbing so I had no idea about genetics, but I did notice that I started building muscle mass and strenght quite quickly without really trying that hard. While I do notice reach sometimes being a problem (some of my partners simply use their lenght to reach past and skip cruxes in routes), when it comes to physical strenght (both overall and finger strenght) I am quite a bit ahead of them. I actually think my lack of reach may be part of why I got this level of strenght. While they simply go for the next hold and skip bad crimps / slopers, I do not have that option. I need to use those holds, training myself. They however skip the difficult parts and don't get the same "workout" out of a climb. Would you say that my genetics are good, or bad? Also, what max grade do you think someone in my situation could reach?

[@Jesus-ji8dh]

Yeh try climbing at 110kg it's impossible I did a 4b at best compared to a 6c when I was 80kg

[@Saxofreak96]

do you think you have the genetics to climb a 9a someday? stay motivated nice video

[@ManitheMonkey]

I'm not sure.. we will see :)

[@nivelegres3510]

I think one important factor you are missing is the current top grade. When I was 20, 6C was still a "serious grade" and I recall thinking "whoa, if I could only climb that I'd be on top of the world". Some 30 years later, my best boulder is 7B/+ (this past January) and I contemplate projecting 7C this season, but it does not feel as much of an achievement since this grade is pretty common now. In the current environment, I think almost every reasonably athletic person can eventually boulder 7C+ or maybe even 8A (not every problem, but project and ascend a problem of that grade). So while 8c+ route might feel hard to you today and 9a feels impossible, maybe in 10 years when 9a is the new 8a (entry level for a serious climber), you will be comfortably ascending the grade.

[@climbscience4813]

I don't think that that's the case anymore. In the 80s and before, that was definitely still the case, as some of the grading systems had a cap, where there simply were no grades higher than, say 6+ (in the UIAA scale). At that time they really rescaled the whole thing whenever someone cimbed something harder than before. However, even the UIAA changed that in 1977 I think. I guess it did take about 10 years for the grades to settle, but I think since the 90s they are pretty much constant. What did change though is the number of climbing gyms and the amount of information about proper training. So, I feel that in the previous 20-ish years the perception of those grades changed as people simply train more effectively. I actually think that we will see a leveling off of the relative grades in the next 10 years, We'll see!

[@nivelegres3510]

My point was that a lot of the limits are simply based on the current state of the art in training, equipment and approaches. You seem to imply that training methods for climbing are fully developed, that equipment is mature and that projecting tactics (such as gym replication of problems) are fully developed. I guess we shall see!

[@ericeinarson6654]

I agree with ClimbScience- I think we will start to see the limit of human genetics slow progress down in rock climbing over the next decade or two until the grades plateau. Adam Ondra is freakish in his ability to climb 9c. But how much further can the human body go? How much further can we push the limit? 9c+ may be do-able for someone someday, but I think 10a is on another planet. I don't think we'll see someone climb 10a in our lifetime- Maybe ever.

[@bernhardlangers778]

The grade really everyone should be able to climb? I'd go with 6c. Making the jump above that requires just so much more strength, technique and range that it will exclude some people inevitably.

[@marvinsain1633]

well this is kinda dispairing :( cuz I'm sure that I'm definitely not the one who having good genetic condition

[@TurriPi]

The only way of knowing is climbing.

[@OneDerscoreOneder]

Doesn’t mean you can’t have fun

[@ryanwsu4]

Isn't there a real book somewhere out there titled "Everyone can climb 5.11a" (6c) Not that 11a is an impressive grade, but still i know tons of people who are still working at it.

[@FelixSalomon]

Nice video, and I mostly agree. However, I think you didn't answer the initial question: What is the grade that EVERYONE can reach? (Assuming they fit into your "standard" person). Is it 7a? Is it 8a? What's the genetic limit for an average person?