As a Flair 58 owner I think there is one more thing worth mentioning - once you're used to the machine and know what you're doing it's almost impossible to pull an undrinkable shot, even if you're not perfectly dialed in. It's especially apparent when you're constantly trying out new coffees. Quite a lot of shots (usually first tries and experiments) I managed to save due to having a full control over the pressure would be wasted on a flat pressure pump machine.
@Yirgamalabar Жыл бұрын
Can you share the adjustments you make mid-shot to prevent spoilage?
@Raditram Жыл бұрын
This is SO TRUE even on other more finicky flair models such as the one that I own (signature). After the first month of rough owner experience everything becomes a second nature. And someone that loves to experiment on different type of espresso it's totally awesome.
@fatedzero1039 Жыл бұрын
@@Yirgamalabar up I want to know also
@alexfreeman4245 Жыл бұрын
@@fatedzero1039 I don't know for sure, but can assume it comes down to pressure management. If the Puck is not holding together properly at least dropping the pressure (aka pushing less hard) let's you respond to that to minimize the impact
@stubbs65847 ай бұрын
If you shot is running slow, pull a shorter ratio. If running fast, reduce pressure slightly and run a turbo. You get a feel for sweet spot pretty quick, which helps as bean characteristics change every few days, week to week…almost no waste as you can save just about every shot.
@Abrikosmanden Жыл бұрын
Your channel deserves a factor of at least 100 in subscriber count! You're doing so well!
@aramse Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@DanielShulga3 ай бұрын
You guys helped me to choose the flair 58 and not the semi automatic! The case breaker was maintenance and cleaning- no one yet took it into consideration. Thank you!
@jedrzejkrysztofiak60418 күн бұрын
That's right. I'm went back from Lelit Mara to Flair 58 because Mara maintenance was overwhelming.
@DancingSpacePotato Жыл бұрын
The epic music is kind of what goes through my head as I’m preparing myself to flip my inverted Aeropress
@PradyumnVij Жыл бұрын
I would argue that the consistency on a manual machine is higher. If your puck prep is not perfect for a specific shot, a semi automatic will pump out an imbalanced over and under extracted shot. While with a lever you can feel the pressure and back off, increase infusion time and proceed at a much lower pressure. Even a spring lever beats a semi-automatic in this common scenario.
@aramse Жыл бұрын
Hey this is exactly what we mention here and in both our flair reviews. The fact that you can alter pressure on the fly is both what makes it incredible and frustrating at times. With a pump you know it’s doing the same thing every time so once you’re dialled in, as long as your puck prep is reasonably consistent you’ll get the same results. With a lever it’s much harder to tell if it’s you or your grind setting that’s impacting the cup. Both have pros and cons and it just depends on preference.
@PradyumnVij Жыл бұрын
@@aramse ok, yeah I misinterpreted what you were saying or may have dismissed the variable in that experienced lever operator == pump pressure on the Profitec. However after reassessing, different coffees respond to pressure in dramatically different fashion and a human operator is not essentially going to be dialled in for the pull or just have an off day or distraction.
@TheDusty0ne Жыл бұрын
Love the 58. Great price, great Espresso and you can do so much with it. I find it reasonably consistent in the important aspects if you have a little bit of experience with it. Knowing your flow rate and pressure helps but mostly relay on puck resistance is already close enough. Never had inconsistent shots once dialed in.
@RonDevito6 ай бұрын
I think a better point of comparison would be the Flair vs. a Gaggia Classic, Turin Legato (or other make/models of this particular machine), or a Rancilio Silvia at the high end. Most home baristas don't have $3K to drop on a machine. People with Flair 58+ budgets will be looking at $500 - $1K machines. Then there's the manual lever competition: SuperKop, Bomber, and Cafelat Robot. I have the Bellman steamer showed on this video. It needs 15 - 18 minutes on a 5,000 BTU flame to have enough force behind the steam to make a proper vortex. So, you'd preheat the Flair's grouphead and fire up the Bellman almost simultaneously.
@r_bear Жыл бұрын
"It also ruins your coffee, which ruined your day, which ruins your entire life." feel that, brother 💀 I do think it's worth mentioning that while your pressure is less consistent on a manual machine, the pressure on an non-lever machine is highly dependent on puck prep... maybe to a degree that makes the "human error" moot. Plus, on a manual machine, you have full control of pre-infusion and can easily pull at lower pressures, which further makes everything more consistent and less error-prone.
@aramse Жыл бұрын
This is what we do mention. The fact that you can course correct means that you never really know if it’s the change in some variable that produced and better or worse shot or if it was you managing the pressure differently. With a pump you know it’s doing the same thing every time so your adjustments are what impact the cup. It’s not like one is better than the other. They are just different and it depends on which one fits your workflow.
@coffeebrat_8 ай бұрын
Flair all the way baby. You just feeling like wearing a custom made suit every single time! Even if the shot comes out not perfect it is still veeery enjoyable.
@Guenounovitch6 ай бұрын
having a bianca and 2 flair 58 i'd throw the 58 away anytime for a real machine
@mikejones-nd6ni Жыл бұрын
Yeah, This channel has a bright future for sure!!
@bettercoffeequest Жыл бұрын
What a great video. I am glad that I ordered the Flair. Should be here in 3 days!
@seniormysterioso7552 Жыл бұрын
Great video. I have the flair 58 and a Sylvia and use the fair 99% of the time.
@coffeenerdaaron Жыл бұрын
Another great video! Love your attention to detail and thoroughness, I need to get better at this for my videos 😆
@igottmituns Жыл бұрын
Well done!! This was super informative!
@0banon Жыл бұрын
Actually laughed out loud at the head-shake at 4:40
@coreycannon4511 Жыл бұрын
While I don’t make espresso, I do mostly make Aeropress and Moka Pot. The Aeropress, in terms of consistency, is the semi-automatic and the Moka is the Flair. On a day in, day out basis, the Aeropress makes “better” coffee, as in my average satisfaction level is higher. It takes a long time (about 15 minutes, start to finish) using Jonathan Gagné’s method, but nine of those minutes are waiting minutes, where I can be doing other things, like starting breakfast. The Moka, on the other hand is not much faster and you have to watch it like a hawk the whole time. It’s finicky and sometimes it results in coffee that is merely ok. I typically us it to make a 50/50 Americano type coffee based on James Hoffmann’s recipe. But the extra satisfaction I get when I brew the Moka’s version of the “god shot” makes that coffee even better tasting somehow. I know of one KZbinr who used a Breville Oracle in the mornings and his Apartamento in the afternoons and weekends. Sometimes the craft is, and sometimes you just want a great coffee without the fuss. But I still grind for the Aeropress with a J-Max at (for those that want to know) a 2.2.0-2.3.0 setting. Super yum!
@Maespresso58Pro Жыл бұрын
Totally agree with all the points you mentioned!! Great video too.
@meatgeorge Жыл бұрын
I've had my 58 for well over a year as well. Very hard to get a shot wrong, you can feel if it's starting to channel and fix it. Thankfully that's rare and usually comes to bad puck prep. A WDT, spring assisted tamper and of course the puck screen, great results consistently. There is also the option of a La Pavoni like a mate of mine has. You can pull a lever shot and steam milk. Now personally I love my espresso as espresso, but if my kids are anything like me they will be wanting lattes every day when they reach their teens, so maybe that won't be a bad choice. Or a Nespresso Aeroccino because it's not like I'll drink it 🤣
@NubRusty Жыл бұрын
The Flair 58 is so damn awesome. The amount of money it costs for flow profiling is insane when the Flair does it for 20% the cost. Friggin love my Flair 58
@chris_tahir Жыл бұрын
The last round makes me smile in approval. Hahahaha
@laurencedejong Жыл бұрын
I have been discussing this with my wife. She wants to buy a single head machine, I would love to buy the Flair. We have a Fellow Ode with the standard burrs, I have read and heard that it will not be able to grind fine enough, or is not made to grind enough, for the Flair. However, I do see a glimpse at 1:52 of the Fellow Ode in the video. Do you use that for grinding for the Flair?
@aramse Жыл бұрын
Only on occasion. Those have the SSP MP burrs and are on filter duty :)
@newfguy18268 ай бұрын
My Flair Pro is nearly perfect in its simplicity and ability to make great espresso
@68cristian10 ай бұрын
um, the Flair 58 only takes around 5 mins to heat up...not sure where you're getting 20 mins from...
@aramse10 ай бұрын
The heating element is at the top of the brew chamber in the Flair 58 and the machine beeps that it’s ready when that part of the brew chamber is at temp. It takes several minutes longer for the rest of metal to come up to the same temperature. Similar to many PID E61 machines which will say they are up to temp within 10 mins but it’s not telling the whole truth as the group head is a big hunk of metal that needs a lot longer to heat up. If you’re brewing medium and dark roasts you can get away with a 10 min heat up on the F58. Anything lighter and you wanna wait a little longer. That being said I’m not sure if the heating has been improved in more recent versions.
@Fitz557 Жыл бұрын
I suggest a Flair vs La Pavoni for the next video :p
@aramse Жыл бұрын
We need to figure out how to get our hands on a La Pavoni. :) Hopefully soon.
@matiaschacana5768 Жыл бұрын
An Olympia Cremina could also be a great manual option
@TheDusty0ne Жыл бұрын
Yeah well check out Brian Quan's video on that. I'd say that the Flair crushes the La Pavoni in any reasonable regard. Consistent in temperature, easier to operate, 58 mm standard portafilter, more reliable and so on. It just can't steam milk on its own (but let's face it a La Pavoni isn't a great steamer either).
@aramse Жыл бұрын
@@TheDusty0ne yeah the Pavoni is never going to be a practical purchase. It’s more of an emotional one where you’re owning a piece of coffee history. It’s probably the case with most vintage machines.
@Fitz557 Жыл бұрын
@@aramse Indeed. As much I love my Pavoni, it is often super frustrating (to the point that I'm actually considering to switch to a Flair 58). But at the same time, it gives an incredibly rewarding feeling when you do something right with it, and that you understand why it is right.
@gregthomas66376 ай бұрын
My noob question is : Technically you could make the same espresso quality espresso as the 3K coffe machine making with the Flair ?
@aramse6 ай бұрын
Correct
@gregthomas66376 ай бұрын
@@aramse Thank you !
@sahil0106 Жыл бұрын
Gotta say! Loving the new sarcastic bits!! 😆😆😆
@judgegrimrod2651 Жыл бұрын
My SOFI72 just arrived!
@wild-radio737312 күн бұрын
Question: do you have a recommendation for an NSF? i need small and off-grid. The Flair might be perfect?
@wild-radio737312 күн бұрын
Also... @4:39 😂🤌that shade!
@Pedals_n_brews Жыл бұрын
Can you also do a review on Lelit bianca if possible
@aramse Жыл бұрын
We definitely plan to :)
@ohmygod1j8 ай бұрын
Ehhhhhh good video but expected it to be focused on shot extractions.
@The_Coffee_Rabbit_Hole10 ай бұрын
I love your humour 😊
@ddan1eL Жыл бұрын
my flair 58 only takes 4 min to warm up to the highest setting 🤔
@judgegrimrod2651 Жыл бұрын
Some of the best b-roll in the business
@thuhillmallawen1986 ай бұрын
Where are you based sir
@benjaminbutton3476 Жыл бұрын
The Flair 58 can heat the water (this was confirmed from the company). After the 20min preheat to get the PF hot I add room temp water into the chamber and in less than 10minutes it’s at 200deg f.
@aramse Жыл бұрын
It can but it’s not really practical for anything more than one shot now is it? Even for one shot it’s quite a long time to wait just for the water to heat up so imagine having to pull 2 or more shots.
@benjaminbutton3476 Жыл бұрын
@@aramse yes it’s a long time. But is it longer than filling a kettle with custom filter water, letting it heat up, brewing a cup of coffee, emptying the water, filling it back up with custom espresso water, letting it heat up, filling the Flair chamber, emptying the kettle, etc. Imagine brewing two coffees and two espresso 😳. Having the chamber heat the water it’s actually a huge workflow improvement for me and I use the wait time to brew a filter coffee. Also there is a big temp decline when pouring water from the kettle into the Flair, so I’m more consistent with shot temp this way.
@123ChrisG8 ай бұрын
Why is everything so zoomed in? 😅
@nigel4442 Жыл бұрын
When will the profitec review be released?
@aramse Жыл бұрын
We’re working on it. It got a bit delayed due to some parts not arriving in time but it’s WIP and should be out soon.
@jasonahlstrom7696 ай бұрын
@@aramse Any chance we're any closer to the Profitec pro 700 review?
@aramse6 ай бұрын
@@jasonahlstrom769 we were very close to completing the testing when we had to send the machine back few a days and it ended up breaking in transit. So we're currently waiting for it to be repaired.
@jasonahlstrom7696 ай бұрын
@@aramse I look forward to the eventual review - but in the meantime I'm watching and re-watching all of your content - you are doing terrific work!
@pravinlnrk Жыл бұрын
Is there any way for us budget mortals to drink espresso?
@Nick-ny1dw Жыл бұрын
Freeze Dried.
@muharrik Жыл бұрын
Picopresso or Flair Neo
@pravinlnrk Жыл бұрын
Flair Neo is mostly out of stock
@muharrik Жыл бұрын
@@pravinlnrk benki will restock them come March. I asked their customer representative.
@philipurquiza Жыл бұрын
Go to a nice coffee shop, I did that for a lot of years 😅
@LightZone96 ай бұрын
Great video, but showing the Fellow Ode could give one the idea that it's capable of grinding for espresso....which it's not.
@ayex86 Жыл бұрын
Cafelat Robot is more consistent than Flair in terms of making shots (needs lower skills)...
@benedekvali1398 Жыл бұрын
Simply not true, it is harder with the robot to be consistent with pressure. Also needs more force to generate pressure. Both are plenty capable of making great espresso. Source: I have tried both side-by-side when I picked up my 2nd hand 58 electronic.
@coffeebrat_8 ай бұрын
No way lol
@gregoryrobison60526 күн бұрын
Too much talking and narrator shots, not enough video focus on the machines.
@NeverTakeNoShortcuts Жыл бұрын
Espresso machines all beak and they are very expensive to fix.