mapp gas steel brazing in open air

[@rockyrhodes1270]

I just now learned more about basic utility brazing by watching this vid than I learned from reading a surprisingly good bit about it. Even with MAPP gas it takes longer than I would have expected,I had always heard to be extremely careful with MAPP gas as it can melt stuff unexpectedly! This vid was perfect to point me in the right direction. Thanks !🌞

[@adrian-mu3jr]

You can braze in open air with mapp under the right conditions. The limitations are how much heat the torch can input into the work, so burner /flame size is one element, work piece itself and ambient conditions i.e wind. flame shielding really helps, and size might be limited to something quite small e.g. 10mm round rod. I've used Rothenberger Super-Fire 2 on MAPP and even Rothenberger TURBOROP on propane. Bullfinch also do a brazing torch that can output enough heat off propane using a 4 bar regulator. If you have two burners running, size options improve. In answer to the question related to filling a hole the size of a nickel, don't fill the hole with bronze.. Use a piece of the same steel cut to fill the hole, and braze it in place. A brazed joint is very strong. Make sure surfaces are prepared carefully and use appropriate flux/filler rod (SifBronze).

[@cnctopnet5665]

Just a note after some time: if you need to braze bigger parts you can easialy build yourself a small enclosure for example in a 4litres can insulated using ceramic wool and refractory cement like a small forge and you can do bigger parts even using cheap gas. I drop mapp gas for usual brazing because is not budget friendly

[@GuilhermeTrojan]

thank you man I found all the answer i was looking for in your coments in this video

[@bandidol200]

Got to echo other posts, this is not brazing, it's melting some brass onto steel. You need to join at least two pieces of metal TOGETHER to show brazing!

[@JustinianPrvni]

I don't get the downvotes, it's just a video that shows you CAN braze with MAPP (or rather with pure propylene which is now being sold as the MAPP substitute.)

[@cnctopnet5665]

Exactly, i was looking for something like this before trying and i did not found anything useful to show the full process and capabilities. I needed this for the carbide tip brazing for the lathe/mill cutting tools and i was looking for MAPP because oxy-acet can generate to much heat, MAPP temperature won't affect the carbide no matter what.

[@JustinianPrvni]

I ran into your video when I was trying to find out the answer to the same question you were looking for. I needed a reasonably solid, cheap and precise way to join various stuff to 1mm sheet steel that is too thin to stick weld neatly with my skills and equipment. Looks like this is the ticket.

[@Orrphan]

Justy nothing was bonded or joined. Would have been nice to hear someone narrate instead of that awful generic grunge sound also.

[@mswsmw8838]

You shouldnt be playing about with a gas torch then

[@빛과소금-y9c]

I tried but copper rod is not melting with mapp gas.

[@cnctopnet5665]

Actually it should work, is the same melting temperature. Mapp is fully capable of melting copper, i did melt some copper pipes in tests. Im brazing using copper brazing alloy more freqvent than brass now using same flux used in this video and Rolot S94 rods i can braze steel/carbide parts (cutting tools for lathe/mill).

[@HalfLife2Beta]

@@cnctopnet5665 hey do you think i could braze steel with silver solder with rothernberger rofire 1800 ? what about brass ? thanks in advance

[@cnctopnet5665]

@@HalfLife2Beta This video already answers your questions. Use the right flux and you can easialy braze small pices brass and steel even with normal gas. Mapp will give you capability to do it on bigger parts or faster. You can also increase the size adding ceramic wool around the piece to keep the heat in the area. Just use the right rods and flux. I use rolot s94 as rods for steel and felder sh1 / rothenberger lp5 as flux and it really works.

[@HalfLife2Beta]

@@cnctopnet5665 thanks and should the steel piece be Cherry red before adding silver solder ? Thanks in advance

[@cnctopnet5665]

@@HalfLife2Beta Redish, depends on the solder rods temperature. In this video the temp was over 1200 celsius because i used plain brass as filler and flux, not brazing rods. For silver and normal brazing rods 800+ celsius should easialy do it.

[@trailman20]

Is this mapp or map-pro ?

[@nail928]

I’m not sure if you still answer questions. I need to fill a hole that a size of a nickel it’s steel can I use brass to fill the hole up and File back to diameter? How much load can brass takes before it gets wore out.

[@cnctopnet5665]

i can't really answer this question without knowing the full details. If you need full strength you can use tig welding and fill using a stronger material similar to the steel you have or stainless steel. In some cases the brass is strong enough but as i said it depends on application.

[@Matthew.Morycinski]

Re comments about MAPP (methylacetylene-propadiene, C3H4) vs. MAP-Pro (propylene, C3H6) vs propane (C3H8). The higher hydrogen content causes: 1. more water vapour, which takes away heat, 2. more air is needed, which dilutes the heat available. Both of these factors combine with the heat capacity of the gas, which for both MAPP and MAP-Pro is about 10% lower than propane. Overall, MAP-Pro is marginally better than propane. MAPP is much better, but since it can't be had, moot point. I still use MAP-Pro in a marginal situation, but it costs a lot more, so if I did a lot of brazing, I would favour using a larger/second torch, better insulation of the workpiece etc.

[@davidcooley5135]

yea I am asking the same question but what brand and were

[@cnctopnet5665]

You can find anything in the video description and previous question reply

[@ARCSTREAMS]

can i mix the borax i use as a pest killer with water or alcohol to get a paste for flux or is it a different kind of borax? perhaps the stuff i have is mixed with other chemical and not good for using as a flux? btw i made a small oxy/propane torch like a jeweler uses,is it possible to braze small steel wire or sheet metal together using a small brass rod or coat hanger etc? is the flux necessary or can i still get a decent braze without it?

[@cnctopnet5665]

Worth a try, i would try it. I suppose this FH10 flux i used is borax and nothing more, it looks like borax. But .. the dedicated flux ensure you a good braze, is easy to get and not expansive, so if you need the strength - use dedicate products.

[@ARCSTREAMS]

ok good thx,,but burning borax fumes is not dangerous? they make nice green color flames when mixed with alcohol and lit,,,so am i able to braze steel wires with silver solder and regular flux using prop/oxy? is there a technique for the flame?

[@cnctopnet5665]

Dangerous or not is not like you are using it everyday, also the borax/flux quantity is really small, like a drop or so. I used dedicated flux doing same green colors and i doubt they would allow a extremly dangerous flux to be sold and used. Why would u use prop/oxy for silver ? I test mapp gas to keep the temperature low so i can braze thin parts without the risk of burning thru but i did a high temperature brazing here, solder is half of this temperature, you can do it using any cheap gas torch.

[@ARCSTREAMS]

well you see i recently made a miniature jeweler's type torch that runs on oxy/propane and i wanted to test and see what i can do with it,i figured it's possible to solder or braze small items and was juts wondering if it's at all possible to braze steel with silver or brass but all i got on hand is small silver brazing wire and a bit of regular soft soldering wire,,i think i managed to braze 1/16" steel wires together but it was a dirty looking job and was wondering what i was doing wrong or right,,juts wanted to see what i can possibly do with my little torch

[@sprocketandwheel]

You can use Borax laundry detergent.. (20 Mule team in USA) it works well and saves a lot of money... To remove the baked on flux just soak in hot water.. I hope this helps.. I would not use the pest killing stuff.. I have no idea what it is mixed with..

[@scythian2102]

Arthouse cinema.

[@fredgarvinMP]

3:02 then TOUCH IT!

[@yuguangmetal]

impressive

[@yamahajapan5351]

Uhhh, you think this is “brazing”? Melting brazing rod on a steel pin is not brazing…

[@cnctopnet5665]

Its a proof of concept, nothing more nothing less. You should have read this in the description. Just add a carbide tip or any other part and that is brazing.

[@AlexA-yj9ft]

What kind of flux is that? And is that a brass rod or steel?

[@cnctopnet5665]

The flux is fh10 felder, the big rod is a 1/2 steel bar, the thin one is plain brass. This was only a test to see the mapp capability of melting brass and brazing in open air. Cheap materials, nothing steel dedicated with silver or any expansive things.

[@AlexA-yj9ft]

CNC TopNet OK thanks

[@AlexA-yj9ft]

CNC TopNet this is probably a dumb question but would it be possible to use just plain aluminum tig wire for this? I'm asking because I want to but I bulk

[@cnctopnet5665]

No, it does not work like this

[@cnctopnet5665]

by the way, you can braze aluminium using aluminium dedicated brazing wire, something similar to soldering but at a higher temperature and it works quite well on aluminium. You can check my other video where i did this a couple of months ago kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKepiJ-Dfdl9fdE

[@mswsmw8838]

WTF, who really got anything from this apart from being pissed off watching a metal bar heated then having to watch it cool down ,why would you think anyone would benefit from this if you did benefit then you really should not be playing with a gas torch

[@cnctopnet5665]

Ability to braze small parts in a garage/workshop without oxy/acetyl (that is a dangerous stuff) is a huge part. Not being able to find a movie similar to this one made me waste hundreds of euros on burners and hours of frustrstions. As stated, this movie is only made to prove mapp gas and the specific burner can melt brass and be used for small brazing. I am using this to braze carbide tips to steel bodies for cnc/mill/lathe cutters. If you can't get it maybe you should not watch technical movies at all