Margaret MacMillan: What Can History Tell Us About Ukraine’s Future? | The Foreign Affairs Interview

Foreign Affairs invites you to listen to its podcast, the Foreign Affairs Interview. This episode with Margaret MacMillan was originally published on June 15, 2023.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is shaping up to be the biggest military operation in Europe since World War II. As Kyiv works to push back Russian troops, there is a lot of focus on how modern technology including drones and satellite Internet terminals is being deployed. But these new advanced systems aside, the battlefield scenes from Ukraine’s frontlines look like they could be from the western front in 1916.
For the historian Margaret MacMillan, the resonance of World War I goes well beyond the images coming out of Ukraine. As she writes in a new essay for Foreign Affairs, the experience of that earlier great war in Europe “should remind us of the dreadful costs of a prolonged and bitter armed conflict.”
We discuss how leaders decide to stop fighting, the usefulness of historical analogies, and how the end of one war can lay the groundwork for the next.
SOURCES FOR THIS EPISODE
“How Wars Don’t End” by Margaret MacMillan
www.foreignaffairs.com/guest-...
“Leadership at War” by Margaret MacMillan
www.foreignaffairs.com/guest-...
“Which Past Is Prologue?” by Margaret MacMillan
www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...
“Warnings From Versailles” by Margaret MacMillan
www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...

[@rochesterjohnny7555]

Brilliant mind, I really enoyed her book about World War I, this is a very sober analysis of what's going on right now

[@teashea1]

very excellent

[@megwenger8756]

Interesting and valuable points… Need to back to into my avid history reading.

[@felipearbustopotd]

Thank you for uploading and sharing.

[@niccamelfly]

The only thing that is certain...It is never our fault ! Never, ever !

[@thesilkpainter]

Thank you for an excellent interview. I keep learning new details which gives a much more facetted view.

[@Guy-Lewis]

Margaret MacMillan is always thought provoking, so I'm delighted to hear emphasis placed on the volatile mix between historical context and (imo) authoritarian personality dysfunction.

[@NineInchTyrone]

And USA dysfunction?

[@Coumei2009]

@@marcco6571 "US is not authoritarian" if a president leads a country and makes the policies with less than a 40% approval rate, is that authotrain dysfunction?

[@nafeesyoutube9996]

Perfect

[@Martin-qm2lg]

Very intelligent discussion based on a deep knowledge of history which helps us understand Putin's war on Ukraine and what may happen in the future.

[@markbowden7238]

actually the opposite - western-centric, shallow, disingenuous, propaganda.

[@steve-real]

30:59 “But the danger is also Ukraine which is impoverished and miserated in which people feel that the war has left them in this awful situation and no one is helping.” - Margaret MacMillan That is a powerful and deeply insightful observation that no one has said in such a poignant way before

[@chrisfreebairn870]

Ukraine knows what's at stake here better than anyone; Russian dominance is regarded as far worse than the emiseration & abandonment suggested; their identity is at stake, & they have a long history of desire & determination to be masters of their own fate; hundreds of years of colonisation by Poland - Lithuania, & domination by Russians, & now this outrageous duplicity & barbarity. And they will not be abandoned, since Ukraine has such incredible agricultural & other resources, including human capital. Ukraine was a very important element of the USSR, so it knows how to do things that many countries of similar size have little ability to do. And America has vested huge emotional capital in Ukraine's survival; they're not about to then abandon her, especially since there's gonna be a very angry bear with busted teeth & swollen face growling & pacing right next door.

[@JameBlack]

Im from Ukraine and nah we are ok, at least those who didnt lost relatives or property yet. Its easier than you think.

[@neovxr]

Peter Turchin is using similar language. He says the infight among political elites for position and wealth will immiserate wide parts of Western populations.

[@neovxr]

@@chrisfreebairn870 Russians are feared because the infowar and propaganda are inflating every inch of Russian history, while downplaying Western history of world wars, colonial wars, engineered coups ("banana generals"), and all kinds of neocolonial exploitation like in Africa about ColTan.

[@neovxr]

>> America has vested huge emotional capital in Ukraine's Not America! The Neocons, that have preached normal Americans into the dumbest gung-ho exceptionalism, while they do not care about American people at all. This is pure nepotism. Ukrainian diasporas are pouring dozens of millions into elections in USA and Canada, and they work together with the rich Kuomintang diaspora as well, which is about Taiwan of course. Follow the money.

[@Aussie-Mocha]

🤔 from a layman point of view this is an excellent more or less accurate description of how things where and are today . My only criticism is , there is so much talk about just the power countries and their validity to the outcome of a conflict at the expense of a smaller less powerful nation who is fighting for its existence. Where is the validation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and right to fight? Or is Russia, China or US’s opinion more important?

[@kkpenney444]

Because there no question to Ukraine's sovereignty and right to fight, there's not much to discuss.

[@alexperkins8433]

@@kkpenney444 NO kidding. cant believe that has to be stated. ffs.

[@romailto9299]

How do you mean validation of Ukraine sovereignty and right to fight?

[@chrisfreebairn870]

It's in service of, not at the expense of; the whole purpose here is to support & ensure the sovereignty of Ukraine against Russian aggression. The Ukrainians decided to fight, & to concede none of their territory to Russia. Those supporting them have said only Ukraine can decide where this ends.

[@OliverKnill]

Thanks. Yes, it is very important to look at things also from a historical perspective. The mechanisms are indeed very similar to WW1. The movie "nothing new at the Western front" illustrates well, how long a war can essentially just stay a stalemate". Also the propaganda parallels are the same. School teachers prepping up the young students for war. In west as well as in the east. It is sickening to see how the war propaganda machine still succeed in the modern times. There is a complete inability of almost all of the political class (both left and right) to think in the shes of the other side. Only few would imagine if the US would have a geographically close direct contact with a foreign power. History again only requires to look back a few decades: Cuba. How nervous (rightly) the US was reacting on this. The NATO in the Ukraine is a similar situation. There are German (and American) tanks on the battle field against Russia.

[@laolao1466]

What's the problem with German tanks in Ukraine against Russia? In WWII German nazi occupied only 6% of Russian territory. Whereas Ukraine was TOTALLY destroyed by nazi twice - during the offensive and when they retreated. German nazi killed 25% of population in Ukraine and it took 25 years to return to pre-war demographics. Then Germany together with other Western countries denuclearized Ukraine in exchange for security guarantees, but refused to fulfill those guarantees when Russia invaded Ukraine. Moreover, Germany totally supported fascist Russia that was committing genocide of Ukrainian people. Merkel is the 21st century Ribbentrop. Steinmeier has always been on the side of fascist Russia against Ukraine.

[@IBACb]

Other than the failed "Bay of Pigs" operation, the US never took military action against Cuba. Even the naval blockade was limited to interdicting military ships from USSR. Nothing even close to the fascist imperialism moscow is inflicting on Ukraine.. The whole NATO expansion argument is a red herring.

[@ballerblocks]

I came to listen to this with a open mind, i might as well have turned on bbc news and just digested the narrative.

[@neilsheehan9807]

MM is a world treasure!

[@Stefan-wj6mq]

I have deep respect for historians like Margaret MacMillan, however both of the participants - and many, many others - have overblown the importance of Zelensky and Putin's grief and the sense of humiliation he had felt before this invasion. I, as someone who has watched closely this conflict unfolding from the second half of 2013, understood the Ukrainian determination to resist and prevail as a nation. Militarily speaking, the darkest hour for Ukraine was the battle of Debaltseve during the winter of 2014/15, when the Russian hybrid war had finally failed. At that point, an easy, Crimean-style victory was off the table. Putin went on the path of "destabilizing" Ukraine, and we have the opportunity to witness the success of that endeavor. In the period of destabilization (between 2015 to 2022), Ukraine wasn't weakened, but it used this period to further strengthen its forces. Zelensky has just inherited this effort. Regarding Putin, until 2007, he was mostly an empty-headed centrist leader led by greed. He is a meaningless personality who has immersed himself too deeply in the fantasies he has created. This is a well-known trajectory of any authoritarian leader who doesn't understand the limitations of his power, the depth of corruption of the people around him, and the moral decay of the regimes these people create.

[@samuelbeh9302]

Margaret’s comments about how unique individuals can disrupt calculations about the broad sweep of history reminds me of Asimov’s Foundation series, where the Mule completely threw off Psychohistory’s planned renaissance of the galaxy.

[@paulheydarian1281]

Is Samuel busy channelling his inner mule? 🤔

[@jaein7779]

Its interesting that Ms. MacMillan mentions the ancient battle of Cannae as it was this same battle that captured the imagination and hearts of the German OKW and helped to seal their fate in WW1.

[@thomasjamison2050]

The Germans were hardly the only ones to be inspired by Cannae. But it is one thing to be inspired and quite another to successfully pull off such an event.

[@terrycole472]

Specifically, of Schlieffen. But the Schlieffen plan very nearly succeeded.

[@terrycole472]

PS. Schlieffen was Chief of the Greater General Staff (Großer Generalstab). The OKW (Oberkommando der Wehrmacht) was not a WW1 organisation. Also its role in WWII was not well defined, particularly with respect to OKH.

[@michaelhenault1444]

She's right about Kotkin. He has revolutionized historiography.

[@nathanngumi8467]

Word.

[@psnaris]

Margaret MacMillan-- mind reader.

[@philodonoghue3062]

This is a war of attrition with artillery the main feature like the First World War and Russians specialists in deep defence like the Second World War

[@flatoutsmom2496]

Very good interview. I don't think we should be overly concerned about the West abandoning Ukraine. It's likely with the US but UA is on the road to EU membership where support is baked in.

[@peterhumphrys]

I sure hope that the later point is true, difficult to know here in NA

[@Rasectos]

Ukraine won't join the EU for at least another decade, so I wouldn't be so sure about support for the country being a certainty.

[@dzikiwaz8987]

In what way EU can provide military aid to Ukraine? Germany has no army, and doesn't allow others to ramp up theirs armaments.

[@andriyandriychuk]

NATO membership is more important

[@neovxr]

Europe cannot exist without strong Eurasian ties. No form of existence as Washington's deplorable silly and stubborn little brother will be sustainable. Germany's wealth is tanking. Buying force of wages is breaking down, more and more people have difficulty to make ends meet. Add to that, dozens of millions of migrants in Europe. This will absolutely explode, when there is no intense Silk Road to keep business going. People will be at each other's throats like never before in history. EU membership will mean absolutely nothing. Who will join a club of arrogant losers? Who will believe the 1 percent when 99 percent fall back into poverty on printed money?

[@Johnconno]

The heat will kill them first.

[@jaymacpherson8167]

To accept Russian retaining invaded territory is to announce having nuclear weapons allows nations to invade.

[@paulheydarian1281]

The Americans and the Brits invaded Iraq with impunity. Both are nuclear powers. They didn't retain any territory, but they destroyed Iraq in the process.

[@lukesteers81]

@@paulheydarian1281 Didn't Iraq invade Kuwait first??

[@aliceinwonder8978]

@@lukesteers81 different war.... US invaded iraq twice. second time for no reason. then we invaded afghanistan, libya, syria, yemen. and dont forget hawaii and mexico

[@aliceinwonder8978]

Is your devotion to nationalism (and enforcing militarized borders) so strong that you are unwilling to use diplomacy to de-escalate a war that can escalate into a nuclear exchange? That seems like a much more misguided position to take.

[@romailto9299]

Also, it's entirely possible for Russia to be defeated in Ukraine without acknowledging the defeat. Losing the Crimea and Donbas is still far off from a resounding defear where the Ukrainian troops descend on moscow. So Putin will be able to frame this outcome as a victory over the west

[@lizardking3979]

I want the same shit that you are on😅

[@neovxr]

@@lizardking3979 it is called liberal media. it is worse than LSD.

[@romailto9299]

The speaker seems oblivious to the fact that a resentful and revanchist Russia is what Ukraine and the world are dealing with right now. Blaming the west for the outcome of the cold war, break-up of the Soviet Union, political turmoil and economic hardship - that's already happened. In that sense we're in the 1935 Germany sort of situation. Otherwise a good interview

[@yp77738yp77739]

A wholly unipolar analysis of what has unfolded. For me, unless you are looking at the entire picture then it is not historical analysis, but rather a propaganda.

[@JuanPerez-jx3np]

I agree. She presented a very good analysis of ONE possible outcome of this war. What about the other option? No word of it, even though it is the most likely one (no clear victory from Ukraine).

[@carylhalfwassen8555]

@@JuanPerez-jx3npFor another viewpoint listen to recent Stephen Kotkin interview by Hoover Institution of who will win the peace in this conflict. There is winning the conflict which may not relate to a desirable peace outcome.

[@hadensonbuildingdesignandc4227]

I have great respect for Margaret MacMillan. 'The War That ended Peace ' is an important work, in my opinion, as are many of her other books but given the historical war record of the United States and Nato over the past 30 years can and should Putin's and Russia's insistence on Ukrainian neutrality as a condition for peace be considered disingenuous as a legitimate security concern. If, as Margaret MacMillan says in this interview, Nato expansion was an excuse and not a provocation for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, one would have to ignore Putin's reaction to the declarations made by Nato at the Bucharest Summit in 2008 as well as Angela Merkel's warning to George W. Bush evincing the consequences of that declaration. The notion that Putin used Nato expansion as an excuse to invade Ukraine for its territorial expansion and imperial ambitions is a popular theme in the west to garner public support for Ukraines capacity to continue the fight. For those who recall Russia's invasion of Georgia in August 2008, 4 months after Nato's Bucharest declaration, there was a similar situation with the same popular theme of Russian imperial ambition prominent in the western press. However, once Georgia abandoned its pursuit of Nato membership and became neutral Putin showed no interest in gaining its territory. Today Georgia is a representative democracy high on the Human Development Index and by all accounts a responsible State. If there is evidence for the absence of imperial ambition I would suggest it resides in Georgia.

[@carylhalfwassen8555]

One could have some minuscule respect for the argument of Russian border anxiety if the invasion force did not exhibit such inhumane and outrageous treatment of civilians, even of their own populace. Let’s roll back the borders and invite Genghis Kahn’s hordes to return.

[@stischer47]

True, if Hitler or Putin had not been in power, the wars might not have happened. However, we don't get to choose whom we deal with. But if we are ignorant of missteps in the past, then we are doomed to repeat them with disastrous results. We know now that the Wehrmacht was ready to depose Hitler at many steps before the invasion of Poland, but the western leaders viewed Hitler through their own views. The same with Putin in Georgia and Crimea.

[@NineInchTyrone]

If morons like Clinton Obama and Biden had not been in power this war might not have happened Bush2 also

[@peterhumphrys]

history does not repeat but sometimes it rhymes Why do analysts keep looking to the past to think about the future, would these people drive down the highway in reverse to get to their destination?

[@chrisfreebairn870]

On what other basis do humans do anything? Are you suggesting that experience counts for nothing? The power of the human race rests entirely on our ability to accumulate & analyse knowledge, which by definition means looking to the past; in the period prior to this we lived in caves & grass huts & ran away from nature.

[@beatabilikova4399]

Munich 38 was a decent attempt to deal with the situation? Decent for whom?! At whose expense? Wasn't it yet another example of some countries fixing their wellbeing at the expense of those whose freedom or quality of life don't matter much (as the representation of those certain countries believe)?

[@RHGM71]

I would quote general Zaluzhny: we DO know that russia will come back again. It's not something Ukrainians are unaware of

[@markbujdos584]

Col. Douglas MacGregor would demolish MacMillan in a debate on the subject.

[@jan-erikjanson1995]

Actually started with the civil war, trenches, Gatling guns rail roads. Civil war was almost the first modern war!

[@caballosinnombre3981]

The facts of the ongoing civil war in the east, ongoing nato expansion, the outcome of Munich security conference and the maidan coup with direct US intervention are central to understanding the war and context for illegal Putins invasion. Balance of power theory makes a lot of sense in this case, given these facts and in contrast to the categorical dismissals and doctrinal assertions by the serious mind of M MacM. We're being led down a perilous path by leadership who only see fit to escalate this proxy war.

[@warwickbrown18]

To describe this as a “civil war in the east” is breath taking ignorance. It is a war of conquest by Russia and a war of independence by Ukraine. Either you’re a Russian troll or have never visited and know nothing of either country and their peoples.

[@davidkemp3154]

Never underestimate Mark Hamill's Star Wars drone supply to Ukraine (& other warring constellation planets).

[@myroslavabasladynsky4937]

Here’s another lesson of history - one this historian conveniently forgets. Before Germany and Japan were treated generously (after World War II) they were roundly defeated and thereby taught that their military adventurism was a grave mistake.

[@carylhalfwassen8555]

Defeated and occupied for years. New form of governing in the occupied territories including new constitutions.

[@Tomcan59]

This lady is so anti German, seems her entire career is centered around, how can the Germans be blamed for everything and England is the only country that is always right...listened to her for years

[@LindaAndrews-ly1qf]

3:40 4:20

[@drpeterc12]

A better comparison is Austro-Hungary versus Serbia war in 1915-15. A-H was much stronger than S but S held out by due its them fighting for national identity. But in the end S succumbed to greater power. Only the involvement of western power did S re-emerge in 1918. Eastern Ukraine is currently under Russian influence, just how much treasure will America spend to get it back? These decisions will be decided by the US elites, suppose the US backs the wrong horse?

[@jamessmithers4456]

Things will only get worse from here for Kiev

[@jankowalyk7301]

This was could be avoided if The West had taken seriously Ukraine's security issues and Russian's treat to post- Soviet states.

[@kofferfischii]

This war could have been avoided If the West would have said No !! to the Euromajdan revolution against an elected government of 2014 that was based on political kitsch. This is how it all started. Germany, France and Poland had tried to stop it but the "powers of Lwow" were stronger. We were watching but we should have been activ.

[@borzix1997]

This could not be avoided. Timing was the only question.

[@chrisfreebairn870]

Ukraine has long been an afterthought of history, which is a travesty, since it has been of vital importance for a very long time. Had that importance been better understood, I suspect the Western reaction to Russia's clear intent in 2014 after Maidan would have been more substantial. But it wasn't, & Russia took advantage of the Wests desire to avoid conflict. The West was not then ready to see Russia & China as needing a demonstration of Western resolve, but Ukraine, by fighting not rolling over, did us a favor - the chance to say no to C & R without fighting them directly. The 'decadent West' had to bloody some noses to let the bullies know that there are red lines, that being the nice guy can be taken advantage of only so much. TRump needs the same lesson.

[@eddievangundy4510]

The counter-offensive has been a flop. Not sure if either of these two know much about the situation in the Ukraine.

[@syedadeelhussain2691]

I always listen to this madam, when I want to understand WW1 and the causes of the Great War. Margaret should be teaching military science at a war college. She has more sense of war studies and military history than some preposterous generals ;)

[@medicuswashington9870]

Might makes right. Russia now has enough might to be right.

[@aleksandarjokic1270]

She has some knowledge of history, but clueless about the current moment!

[@markbujdos584]

"The history can help us understand what might come next" is of course is a good example of a classic logical fallacy--the false analogy. Similar historic forces, do not mean the same historical forces. We don't live in the world of 1914-18. Historical parallels are merely that--parallels

[@555usher]

Her opinion is more towards the west way of thinking and seeing things. But great interview

[@calgarycanada248]

The British can never stay out of anything... but being the war opportunists that they are, of course they too got into the fight in 1914. They should of stayed out of it.... but THEY got GREEDY for the spoils of war.... the Versaillesl treaty is the evidence.

[@francisdelacruz6439]

On the reaction to Ukraine war Macmillan seems to un-account for the Iraq War which was illegal and an invasion of a sovereign country. Its not always as clear or black and white. Weapons of mass destruction was never found in Iraq and yet you have North Korea which does have nuclear capability and is lodging missiles over SK and even now has ballistic missiles that can reach the Americas. Or the many overt and covert operation against sovereign countries in the Americas. This is such not a balanced view of history as Kotkin would have laid history out. Maybe we need to see a more balanced view and see why choices could have been made despite the reality or data that history in perspective shows.

[@davidbeare730]

sorry, I meant to say unimaginable in my last comment.

[@rafaelsanz3441]

Margaret McMIllan is always great. This war shall escalate and when Russia shall be defeated, Poland shall take Kaliningrad, and finish that Russian exclave inside the EU that poses an existential threat for Poland and the Baltics. Not possible to have a Russian exclave with 50.000 soldiers and the Baltic Fleet with Russian nuclear heads pointing to all the countries that Russia wants to destroy and occupy.

[@Guy-Lewis]

In such a case, Poland would risk justifiable retaliation by what remains of the Russian Federation. I write "what remains" because I suspect that, just as in 1991, mistreated populations will demand independence from Big Bully.

[@alanfulcher460]

So, you want world war 3 to happen so you can get konigsberg back. Very sane

[@DunnoWhatHandleToUse]

The US (and probably most of NATO) would never allow Poland to invade Russia lmao

[@Christiancatholic7]

Ukraine will lose

[@chrisfreebairn870]

If they lose Crimea the Russians will see the Baltic fleet base as doubly important, no? Though both must be tactically quite vulnerable surely, given Turkey can lock them into the Black Sea & Britain etc make getting out of the Baltic very difficult.

[@bradslowgrove1128]

When you have an illegal war of aggression it is compulsory to know international law on a sophisticated level to know what is going on and know what dangers you are facing not just now but into the future. History and political science qualifications and even diplomatic experience do not cut the mustard here. The media know none of this and are out of tune as to what is at stake in this war. When you are told this not a regional war between Russia and Ukraine that is totally correct because that is what international laws says. It is an answer not a political opinion or propaganda and illegal international wars of aggression are rare and have massive legal consequences that other wars do not have. For instance, you cannot have a legally valid peace treaty where the victim state gives up sovereign territory to the aggressor state to end its illegal war of aggression anymore than two states can enter into a legal treaty to commit crimes against humanity by exterminating a minority that live along each side of their common border. Treaties are not the most powerful laws under international law but are convenient for the untrained and mentally lazy because you just look them up and read them but you need sophisticated training and forensic skills in juristic science to properly understand this war. Juristic science is an actual science not a social science and is more like theoretical physics and advanced mathematics than history and political science and it deals in answers. It is a foundation legal principle that you cannot substitute your opinion of the law for the law itself. With illegal international wars of aggression that do not legally apply to non-international armed conflicts, the rule of law prevails over political power and the prohibition on these wars of aggression is above state sovereignty not below it or subject to it. It is law, not politics or morality. It is law that applies to states and many of these commentators mix together or confuse governments with states. For example, the 2004 invasion of Iraq is NOT an illegal war of aggression because there was no intention to annex Iraq or alter international law boundaries. It was aimed against a government that had individuals who had engaged in clear acts of genocide and was in breach of a ceasefire agreement not a peace treaty over its own illegal war of aggression against Kuwait.The comparative war for the Second Gulf War that removed the Hussein regime, government, is the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, Khmer Republic to get rid of the genocidal Khmer Rouge regime that was a government. Legally there is nothing wrong with any state or groups of states invading Russia to get rid of the Putin regime as long as there is no intention to annex any part of Russia or alter its international law boundaries. Well trained international lawyers look at it all in a different way and you will not get any of the above from media. However, it is this law that is governing policy behind the scenes by all the state actors even Russia until it engaged in the phony annexations of the Donbas and southern oblasts of Ukraine. Up until then there is a mountain of evidence that Putin was trying to avoid the legal consequences that attach to an illegal war of aggression but finally accepted belatedly his avoidance plan had backfired. Now Putin wants to destroy this law by getting into an illegal dirty peace deal after which he will then claim afterwards there is now a ''new world order'' and the current international legal system is gone replaced by absolute sovereign power with no exceptions. Putin drapes this in the fraudulent disguise of ''multipolar world'' which is actually the current legal system that he wants to destroy with his unipolar world that he says he is against and if he pulls this off he will get the support.of China. Do you see how dangerous these appeasers that appear on the media really are when advocating Ukraine cede territory to Russia for peace?The options to end this war are limited and require the removal of Russia from Ukraine as a minimum yet you have media, historians and political scientists speculating about options that do not exist in an illegal war of aggression and making irrelevant comparisons with other wars.The only relevant comparative war is the First Gulf War that was the invasion and annexation of Kuwait by Iraq where one member of the U.N. tried to ''eat up'' another member of the U.N. The only difference with the Ukraine war is that the aggressor U.N. member is on the Security Council that exercised what in the circumstances of an illegal war of aggression is a legally invalid exercise of its veto power. This was mentioned at the start of the war by Sec. State Blinken. The other unique legal consequence attached to an illegal war of aggression is there are special assessment rules that apply to damages and reparations due to the victim state that are much more generous than other valuations and assessments under international law. Russia is broke now and the debt skyrockets daily and Russia cannot pay. No one is going to give Russia credit to pay by instalments for over a century especially when it is subject to sanctions.It is too politically unstable and the interest on the borrowing untenable. All Russia can do to pay is to cede and/or sell off parts of its territory. So this war cannot legally be about whether Russia can gain territory from Ukraine for peace because it is not a regional war but how much territory does Russia have to dispose of to pay its massive damages and reparations debt to Ukraine. Crimea which is not part of the illegal war of aggression is only theoretically available to Russia through a treaty given the size of Russia's damages and reparations bill. Putin took the Donbas out of the 2014 war and put it in the 24 February 2022 illegal war of aggression when he annexed the Donbas so it cannot now be legally ceded by treaty to Russia. This should show you how off kilter media is in this like every other war only here they are worse and were right off cue from the beginning.This constant speculating about non-existent options to end the war just encourages Putin to think he can get away with waging war on the core of the international legal system itself. Its what international law demands for victory not Ukraine or Russia and the law does not do deals with and especially against itself.

[@aon10003]

How on Earth can she miss the western campaign against Russia at least since 2014. They have been extremely open about it. All you have to do is to look where they have written it out in plain sight. Or you can start looking at the Ful Spectrum domination papers. But in her case i recommend a little selfknowledge. She should read about her own class and the values they have. One of the best books on the matters is Thomas Franks whats the matter with Kansas.

[@Nainara32]

Too much hand wringing about a "bitter and resentful Russia". Russia in 2023 has little resemblance to Germany in 1918. It's population is in long term decline and it's economic star has already set.

[@carlosorellana5154]

You are flat out wrong on your analysis of the Russo-Ukraine war.

[@grisall]

If not for Versailles there would have been no Hitler

[@sdr24]

Diplomacy is a good thing. However, my worry is can we actually help countries like China and Russia? Russia and China are both in a state of utter demographic collapse . Even if we want to help Russia have a good post war outcome, can we do it? My fear is that no matter whether we help or oppose Russia, it is still going to collapse as an empire anyway. I don’t see how the country can avoid breaking up.

[@markbujdos584]

There of course would be a tendency to blame outside forces when outside forces are really to blame, namely US/Nato and the Ukraine genocide against the ethnic Russians in the Donbass.

[@axelsohn1454]

The expansion of NATO was one of many provocations. Margaret's analysis of Putin and thinking is pure b....s.....

[@raymondmay2136]

she talks such rubbish, the questioner asks rubbish. Name another war like this? Russia invaded a country. So USSR/Germany invasion of Poland. Japanese invasion of China.... name anything recent? Argentina of the Falklands. WW1 was odd.

[@ericberg2131]

What a snake. When asked about the global south's support for Russia, she changes it to the global south just being uninterested.