Marika and the Gloam-Eyed Queen: Gods and Lords Part II | Elden Ring Archaeology Ep. 20

Elden Ring Lore of Marika and her Nemesis, the Gloam-Eyed Queen. In part two of our “Gods and Lords” series, we build off of our analysis into what defines an Empyrean and a God in order to delve deep into the secret history and reign of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, and her eventual defeat at the hands of Marika and Maliketh.
References:
Kosmos Gloam-Eyed Queen Video: • Unveiling The Gloam Ey...
@Kosmos_er
Music and audio samples:
Profaned Vanguard (acoustic) - Alex Roe
Forgotten Lands - Alex Roe
Please support Alex Roe's beautiful music by purchasing songs or albums for download here: alexroe.bandcamp.com/
Gameplay footage/music credit:
Elden Ring, Bandai Namco and FromSoftware.
Video attributions:
Besitun Video : Ali Aghajanzadeh (KZbin). • Bisotun World Heritage...
The Story of Yin Yang Video prateek rangineni (KZbin) • The Story of Yin Yang
Darius the Great - The King of Kings; Father Of History (KZbin). • Darius the Great - The...
Photo Attributions
Cyrus relief: Wright, John Henry, 1852-1908 Photograph: Pentocelo -
False King Smerdis: archive.org/stream/historyofd...
Chaos: Wenceslaus Hollar - Artwork from University of Toronto Wenceslaus Hollar Digital Collection Scanned by University of Toronto High-resolution version
Gaumata under Darius I's boot engraved at Behistun Inscription in Kermanshah. Patrick C, known as dynamomosquito on Flickr
The struggle between Gobryas and the false Smerdis", 19th century print. Abbott, Jacob, 1803-1879 - History of Darius the Great [1], published 1900
Darius lineage: Ekvcpa - This file was derived from: ACHAEMENES TREE.png
Illustration of the Assyrian Sargon legend (1913)
Contents of the Video
----------------------------------
01:54 Intro
07:00 Chapter One: Death of the Demigods
18:34 Chapter Two: Marika’s Hubris
29:33 Chapter Three: Marika’s Nemesis
40:00 Conclusion

[@connorsmith1005]

FromSoft games Lore is borderline a subject worthy of a degree.

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

We would offer that degree for the low, low price of $999.99. First class free!

[@SaladDongs]

@@tarnishedarchaeologist Don't threaten us with a good time! Daily/weekly videos as courses? "Mister TA, I dug through the game and found this compression artifact, how valuable is it?"

[@rynemcgriffin1752]

@@tarnishedarchaeologistI’ll take 20

[@RowanWhite1980]

Believe me, if I could leverage my sociology background and research Elden Ring for a graduate degree, I absolutely would. 😅

[@archangelgabriel5316]

Sorry I only have runes to offer@@tarnishedarchaeologist

[@SaladDongs]

Maybe I keep saying this but I can't stress enough how apart you seem in the lore community, not just by presentation but the way a lot of these analyses are backed up by historical, philosophical and otherwise real concepts rather than the majority of the community that confines themselves within the realm of the game and the tools they're given there. I think it takes a great amount of knowledge and experience to be able to connect all these ideas BOTH in the fictional *and* real world in a neat, _complete_ package.

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

Thanks for such a thoughtful compliment.

[@superhetoric]

apart?

[@LispyJesus]

Agreed. I’m a history buff and my KZbin is basically video games and history, and then this perfect blend of both.

[@lewisleslie2821]

@@superhetoric also see: in a league of their own

[@xlgapelsin6173]

Well i love this content but the thing you have to remeber is that only and i mean ONLY things in the game is canon. i have no doubt that everything said here is correct but if there is no evidence in game it sadly can't be considered canon

[@JKKoneofakind]

For those who weren't keeping track, The Gloam-Eyed Queen was actually Velka, who was canonically Rey's parents before the Episode 9 rewrites happened.

[@muramasa870]

Velka is Ashen Hollow's wife

[@softiebun9660]

heh nice troll. everyone knows Rey doesn't show up until episode 10 and is revealed as an orphan ;3

[@jezuzman78]

Nice

[@jeffphisher3801]

Don't mention velka ashen hollow might hear you

[@MrOutcast01]

But what does that mean for Vecna and his family who want to ascend iron throne?

[@kingcole5977]

38:56 "This succession plan was ultimately aborted." - a very blunt choice of words, given how Mogh stole Miquella

[@SaladDongs]

To be fair, Mohg WOULD probably be pro-choice... It would even be for religious reasons rather than philosophical.

[@SaladDongs]

@@accelerationquanta5816 very edgy my duderino

[@dmaxcustom]

43 minutes that feels like 15. Incredible content.

[@muramasa870]

I was watching and checked how long I watched: 29 minutes. 29 minutes felt like 5 minutes for me. Crazy good video

[@thebombdiggity3941]

​@@seratoxin3825 sorry what? This is the most in depth channel when it comes to er lore as far as im aware, there some people im missing??? If this guys shit i wanna see the good stuff

[@leifivarhalas5901]

@@thebombdiggity3941 He/she might prefer a more cinematic style of content and could be refering to VaatiVidya. But I don't believe anyone can beat TA in analytics and depth.

[@Ereve_]

I'm most curious about the divine tower episode, I've long theorized they had something to do with the mines we come across throughout the lands between, where at the end of each mine is an excavated golden meteorite, and we see the same meteorites on full display within the divine tower walls and pillars, moreover within one such mine- the sealed tunnel in Altus, we find the same exact pattern in the boss arena as the one depicted on the top of the divine towers, though instead of a pile of ash in the center of it we find yet another golden meteorite, which had me quite puzzled for awhile till I figured that perhaps the top of the divine towers used to be made out of these very meteorites, and that perhaps they very two fingers used this to channel with the greater will, though whatever power that was once there has long deteriorated, and the fingers too withered and died. Love the great work mate, can't wait till the next one frankly!

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

You’ve a good eye. We noticed the same thing. Next episode should be a quicker turnaround hopefully.

[@Pizzifrizzo]

What's funny about the Divine Towers (and the underground mines/ruins you mentioned) is that they seem to belong to what may be one of the oldest architectural stratum on the surface. This stratum is best preserved in the Mountaintops of the Giants, among all places (the huge complex of ruins near the Stargazers' settlement and the Giant Forge's "pedestal"). I'm wondering whether these towers have been repurposed by the Two Fingers, as with many other things, in the way you describe. Something tells me there is a link between the Stone Lords, the pre-Fell God giants and the first humans of the LB. After all, there is ample evidence of at least a huge meteoric catastrophe in the past... I wouldn't be surprised if the Stone Lords have briefly ruled over mortals in the aftermath of such a catastrophe, because of their association with it. How can one build such huge towers, after all, if not with gravity magic? This would also explain why the Carians seem to be descended from an Onyx Lord... and why they seem to have been a great astrologer house even before Rennala, in an age of kings and lords, rather than queens and ladies.

[@Thumb_]

Nothing to do with this but… The serpentine depictions on the Divine Towers, especially the one in Caelid, always confused me because the serpents are supposedly ‘blasphemous’ which would make no sense in the *Divine* Towers of the Erdtree’s reign. Are the Divine Towers actually from Placidusax’s age? We see the Divine Towers all in a circle on the map but in the centre is a cloud. We know that Farum Azula has moved at some time or other, and I have always theorised it was once there in the centre. That cloud could just be DLC content though.

[@thestralner6335]

what i find particularly interesting, and what i havent really seen mentioned, is that the fingers atop each divine tower look more wood than flesh nowadays. not sure if its actually meant to be wood but i do wonder what the implications are if so

[@pathfindersavant3988]

Is it bad that when I entered my first Divine Tower (Caelid) my first thoughts were "...is this thing secretly a giant space ship!?". If there's a connection with meteorites and the Elden Beast/Greater Will, then I may not have been too far off.

[@saiuan4562]

In regards to Marika being in control of the rune of life, the opposite of the rune of death, makes total sense. Notice that marikas pose, resemembles a stake with a curve going upwards. That is the shape/symbol of the rune of life. On the opposite side, the shape/symbol of the rune of death also resembles a stake with a curve... BUT the curve is going DOWNWARDS. It is the opposite. Marikas pose on all her statues, and stakes, are literally her mimicking the shape of the rune of life. All the pieces are falling into place :)

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

Good eye!

[@mcbaalgruf850]

Radagon's pose mirrors the rune of death...

[@soleo2783]

​@@mcbaalgruf850and the incantions using this pose are able to bring true death to those who Live in death. Funny how that works.

[@Daniel-bc5yq]

It's intriguing that Hoarah Loux in the opening cinematic is also crucified with a sword through his belly

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

He doesn't have a womb. Guess they took his burger?

[@irgendwer3610]

in all seriousness, I think they were just humilliating their captured enemy, specially someone as powerful as godfrey

[@irgendwer3610]

@@AwakeAgainAtLast no

[@smileyfrownupsidedown4989]

Never happened

[@HumanB312]

@@smileyfrownupsidedown4989it did that is how he became a tarnished

[@madwaluigi2860]

The thing at the beginning you said about Darius and Bardia, I remember our highschool history teacher talking about it once. He said that if Bardia was indeed fake, how come his wife and children didn't notice despite him ruling for so long.

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

Let this be a lesson for you: listen to your history teachers!

[@spiritandsteel]

Quick note: In Daoism, the Taiji/tai chi ("grand pinacle/ultimate") is usually equated to yin and yang, not a precursor to them (since they are not separate forces and do not exist in each other's absence). Taiji is just a name for the moving dynamism that is yin and yang. The precursor to the Taiji is the Wuji (lit. "without pinnacle/ultimate") which is the "true" primordial state. Wuji is sometimes problematically translated as void or chaos, but seems to be more accurately a state "without distinction" (hence "without pinnacle"). Later Daoist thought incorporated 5-element theory and divinatory trigrams in to a kind of "flow" of creation: From Wuji emerges the taiji, from taiji emerges the wuxing ("5 elements" or more accurately the "5 phases"), from the wuxing (and/or taiji) emerges the bagua (the 8 trigrams/64 hexagrams), and from these emerge the "ten-thousand-things" (I.E., everything).

[@aceroy9195]

Sounds like Shabriri propoganda

[@iamperplexed4695]

Sounds like horseshit.

[@wanred61]

Didn't think I'd be looking forward to Elden Ring lore but your videos are so high quality I can't wait to hear each one!

[@Stupiditree]

word! #eldenloreporn ;)

[@saltix0]

Same here

[@davebosak3395]

I literally stop what I’m doing when I see it. TA + Smough is basically a masterclass in ER lore. I love it so much.

[@whooshingintensifies5850]

C

[@ASNS117Zero]

@@davebosak3395 >_> As entertaining as their videos are to watch (I'm right there with you in dropping in on their videos when they drop), you should probably keep in mind that a huge portion of the stuff both channels put out are theory/interpretation. They can, have, and will continue to get things wrong.

[@danielwilkes8216]

This is an underrated channel

[@ThisIsFolks]

Smashed like as hard as I could

[@likeasonntagmorgen]

I think you’ll find that it’s highly rated. It could use a lot more exposure though

[@likeasonntagmorgen]

@@seratoxin3825 “everything they say is wrong” 🤣🤣🤣

[@SabrinaEvenstar]

I think it was Radagon who speared Marika, not only does the spear disappear when Radagon appears but also it would make sense for him, the current Elden Lord and who is opposed to Marika ideologically (he tries to mend the Elden Ring while she shatters it) to prevent Marika from starting a new age where she esentially removes Radagon from the picture, maybe the part of Marika that became the Elden Beast's sword was Radagon, and why both the spear and Radagon are out of the picture. Not only that but considering that it was Radagon who sealed the entrance to the Erdtree, seeing his rune pattern on the door, I don't think Malekith was able to go inside the Erdtree either, and furthermore it would explain why Melina is outside the Erdtree in spirit form and is released by it's burning in the Frenzied Flame ending. Besides it would even link her closer to Marika and the purpose she gave her inside the Erdtree: to burn it and free Marika from it and Radagon. Still, this was an awesome video! It really gave a lot to think about and I might even do my own video explaining this amendment of sorts. Great stuff!

[@LavaDragonMus]

But where would Radagon get a piece of Destined Death?

[@user-cu8nk7mg2v]

I also think it's Radagon. Also, the reason why Marika broke the ring is that Radagon wanted to return the death rune to the Elden ring, thus introducing order of life and death, solving the TWLID problem. I think this was the final idea that emerged from the ideas of Radagon’s fundamentalism. Then comes a new era, the worship of already dead gods. living gods, as practice has shown, brought chaos and confusion. but Marika wanted to be an eternal goddess, hence the conflict

[@hunterterrat9105]

Merika was already crucified though and also radagon didn't have destined death. the motivation makes sense though

[@Falx415]

​@@LavaDragonMusThat the spear holds the power of Destined Death is an assumption, one without an ounce of evidence to back it. Not even its coloration is similar to DD.

[@Gear3k]

Everyone is always so eager to brand Marika as the true villain, actually, but I always liked the idea that she genuinely tried to create a utopian age of endless life and plenty, only to have it backfire into her face.

[@viljamtheninja]

Well that's why she's a great villain. She thinks she's doing the right thing, but every utopia is someone else's dystopia.

[@samf.s.7731]

I actually agree. I don't think she was ever the villain, but definitely waaaaay in over her head. We never get to hear of the person, just the "God" aspect of her and it's definitely clear that there was more. The one shrouded in the same mystery clock is Radagon, but that makes sense in context of his relationship to Marika. Apparently Smough is making a video discussing "all possible Radagon scenarios", now .. Smough makes long videos, and I think that's convenient for the character he's gonna discuss. There will be a lot of Marika discussed in that video, let's see what he has to say.

[@3verestCollege]

there is no utopia that comes at genocide

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

I think stories like Miyazaki's are meant to make you question whether "villain" is just a perspective. At the end of the day, there's only people, and even the most flagrantly awful people do things for reasons that are understandable under scrutiny. We're all only the result of our environment, so the notion of individualized blame isn't useful.

[@viljamtheninja]

@@monsieurdorgat6864 I think that's a nonsensical perspective. Different people can come out of the same environment due to their differing individualities and ideas. Personality (or genetics if you prefer) and ideas have just as much of an impact; we are not ONLY the result of our environment. And try to use the same perspective on WWII. Was Hitler a bad guy only from a certain perspective? Was his actions understandable? The only way one could agree with your perspective is if one renounces both the notion of human agency (at which point you might as well stop living), and the notion of morality. Now you don't have to believe in any kind of "objective" or "universal" morality - you can find it to be subjective, to be simply a social function that holds a society together, but ignoring it altogether in some kind of environmentalist determinism seems irresponsible at best. A good villain believes that they are doing the right thing. But THEY ARE DOING THE WRONG THING. This is the important part. Things go bad when people have too vast, utopian ideals that they are willing to do everything in order to achieve. The point of Miyazaki's stories isn't moral nihilism as you seem to imply, but ONE point is that evil usually doesn't come from a desire to do evil, but a misguided desire to do good but that ends up being bad. But seeing the difference between good and bad outcomes still requires a basic sense of morality, of right and wrong, and that doesn't permit this type of relativism regarding perspective.

[@agopessimist1335]

I would love to see a video where you do a full chronological timeline of all the events in the Lands Between from its creation and the arrival of the Elden Beast to Marika getting crucified and the Tarnished arriving. One thing I’m curious about is the exact timing of events that happened here. I can buy Maliketh being the one to impale Marika, but when does this happen, and when does Marika choose the succession plan for Miquella? Was it right before the Knight of the Black Knives? And if so does this mean that Marika foresaw what would eventually happen? Or was there a period of time after Godwin’s death that she started planning all this? And the Shattering war was just an excuse for Miquella and Malenia to eventually succeed her and become the new gods, at least until Mohg ruined the plan and the Shattering War ended in stalemate? And how would the Tarnished have come into play if this is true? Were they planned for at all, made to defeat the other Demigods and become the new Elden Lord of Miquella or Malenia? And was Radagon a part of this plan, or did he oppose it, hence why he resisted Marika shattering the Elden Ring? But didn’t he have a good relationship with Miquella based on the Rings of Light incantations, or did their relationship sour after Miquella abandoned fundamentalism for Unalloyed Gold?

[@orange-qj3yd]

I love this, you’ve succinctly summarized the questions I myself have in going though the timeline put forth by TA in this overall analysis of Elden ring.

[@hunterterrat9105]

I think marika planned to rule eternally, but the night of black knives and destruction of her first order put a wedge in those plans. I think when she called radagon back to be her consort the plan from that point forward was to start a new demigod lineage to succeed merika, meaning she planned her own 'death' by maliketh from this point and miquella's succesion. after those plans where thwarted, I think calling upon tarnished of no renowned was a desperate last attempt to have her age not die out. so farum azula age > crucible age > godfrey and maliketh defeat gloam eyed queen > age of the erdtree > night of black knives > radagon leaves renalla and becomes marika's consort > new age of demigods is born and plan enacted > merika is stabbed by maliketh > then miqeulla's kidnapping >then the modern age of merika's desperate plea to the tarnished.

[@kingkangiv1615]

I would suggest that you are neglecting Radagon in this. The spear disforms as he forms, the golden hair of Marika filled with the red hue of the spear as he forms.

[@golDroger88]

Radagon pierced Marika, Radagon sealed her inside the Erdtree.

[@ChucklePottery]

But why would he want to pierce her? Is it the greater will? The greater will already shackle her.

[@vaclavsoukup7302]

@@ChucklePottery Maybe Raddy-boy was pissed off at her? He was often described as a Golden Order fanatic. Her shattering his faith’s greatest symbol would probably be enough for him to want her to suffer as much as she could. And since he married Rennala, probably the most powerful magic user in known history, he studied the glintstone arts; wouldn’t it possible for someone of his skill to know how to mold Amber Starlight to his will?

[@zeppie_]

I don’t think Radagon was the one who sealed Marika. Each God and each Lord have their own runes, which are reflected in the shape of the contemporary Elden Ring rune. The Gloam Eyed Queen’s for example has the three core circles and a pattern of wavy tendrils. Radagon obviously has his slanted grid of intersecting lines, signifying order. That would make Marika’s rune the wide arc shape, basically the rune arc consumable. She’s sealed within her own rune, which means at the very least it wasn’t Radagon’s doing. I don’t think she would have sealed herself, so that just leaves the Elden Beast, who used her rune out of either symbolism or necessity.

[@fredscoffee]

@@zeppie_ I ve removed my comment because it was def incorrect: the crucifixion is definitely an act of the elden beast, as we see during the fight with it. The final piercing being more red/orange than yellow, would simply imply the elden beast would have personnified Radagon will rather than Marika.

[@NatalieLBG]

I realised where you were going with who could have impaled her with the spear and why just before you got there and it really is the perfect gut punch to make Maliketh that bit more tragic. So terribly used/abused.

[@SilentSigil]

I assumed the betrayal was her making him the vessel of death, gradually decaying, always hungering for the substance in death roots, never able to feel satiated for all eternity. I don't think there's evidence for anything else, this video reaches real far. How would you feel if you were promised power, and given such a horrible gift in exchange for your service? I'll give you half an eternity to think on your answer.

[@a_jerry808]

This is the greatest A Song of Ice and Fire Game ive ever played.

[@gamingwglitch1088]

When talking about the Gloam Eyed Queen, I always find myself questioning the timeline of events. That she could be the god of the previous age makes a lot of sense; however, I'm not convinced that she was an empyrean. The game explicitly states that she was "said to be" an empyrean. Which is to say, she might not have been. Additionally, her Great Rune is antithetical to life. Therefore, it is likely that her Divine Womb is barren. Just because she swaddled the godskins doesn't mean that she birthed them. The Godskin Noble guarding the Serpents amnion (along with the serpentine features of the apostles) tell me that the GEQ resorted to the Repellent Birthing Ritual of the Serpent to create them. One last thing I noticed: the Godslayer Greatsword said that the Gloam Eyed Queen "controlled" the Godskin Apostles. That's a very strange choice of word, don't you think?

[@MrArrow54]

I don't think her rune is antithetical to life u can't have destined death without a life to live before u die. Her rune is the culmination of life not its antithesis.

[@geordiejones5618]

I mean is Marika's womb bountiful? She produces omen twins and cursed twins, not exactly something to boast.

[@gamingwglitch1088]

@geordiejones5618 She produced a lot more offspring than that. It's just that all of the others died in the Night of the Black Knives, or before. Plus, Marika is responsible for the Birthing Order of the Erdtree, so you could say she's everyone's mother in a way.

[@jayford1482]

@@geordiejones5618aren't omens actually good tho? They were revered before as a sign of life during crucible

[@acommoncommenter9364]

So you mean gloam eyed queen was not serving the greater will(because she births new life by means of the snake instead of her womb, the elden ring.) and she was an enforcer of true death. But then how would you explain the ancient elden ring being present on farum azula. Of course you could say that farum azula has never been the home of gloam eyed queen but then how would you explain the presence of twinbird motives and the godskin duo in there?

[@flugga182]

the part about the divine tower is a bit confusing. if the torches have been put there by the erdtree society, in a chamber to hide the Godslayer's Greatsword, then I would expect a crucible knight to be there to defend the chamber. But there is a Godskin apostole instead. Also the fact that the chamber is in Radhan's divine tower instead of being connected to the Bestial Sanctum is odd if that was the case. it seems that Rennala's lineage plays a major role in the gloem eyed queen and goskins story arc (with both rykard and radhan).

[@lordpickaxe788]

I agree about the divine tower, in spite of the torches, the enemy placement etc speaks more to me of the Godskins taking refuge there than being sealed away

[@SBNIkato]

Idk if you've noticed, but on some of the walls of Farum Azula there's a relief in the wall depicting what looks like the royal court, consisting of a king, queen and a child held by the queen. We have precedent for ancient dragon's being able to take on human form, so to me it makes me think of a depiction of Placidusax's lineage, perhaps along with their fled god. Still, I'm unsure how it relates to the wolves/woman statue in Maliketh's arena, if it does at all. Have you also noticed this relief TA?

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

Yes, it features prominently in an upcoming episode. It’s quite a mysterious finding that took us a while to square.

[@SBNIkato]

@@tarnishedarchaeologist greatly looking forward to your take. It wasn't until my second, less reactive playthrough that I even noticed it. The sight of human figures seemed too out of place in Farum Azula to not draw interest, considering all of the stonework are representations of beasts, birds and dragons.

[@LordKnightBane]

Frustratingly those statues are in Bloodborne but are larger, so I hope they aren't re-using assets for the sake of it! ;_;

[@niall_sanderson]

@@LordKnightBaneEvery game developer reuses assets constantly, because making every asset for a new game from scratch would waste far too much time. It’s not an inherently bad thing, despite what some clickbait KZbinrs would have you believe

[@SBNIkato]

@@LordKnightBane that's pretty cool actually! I'm fine with the re-use of assets because you can still create the impression and experience you want while still being cost effective. I'm gonna take it on faith that they didn't just say "oh, uh we still have this asset lying around...eff it, throw it in just cause."

[@Kosmos_er]

In regard to the elden rings depiction on the roads, i believe they could be a remanent of farum azula's reign over the lands between. More of farum azula's architecture and patterns is found on those roads, and also in the elden throne. Something to keep in mind is that leyndell, or at least the place where the erdtree is found today, would have always been a divine in any age as that would also have been the location of the Crucible.

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

It's plausible. We'd favor the interpretation that, given the connections between Godfrey, Serosh, Stormveil and FA, that Stormveil and the fortified manor were vassal states of FA, which would explain the stylistic similarities while also allowing for their clear distinctions. Likewise Godfrey taking Serosh's axe is quite in keeping with his Elden Ring being similar to the FA one, an attempt to legitimize his and Marika's new reign by laying claim to the ancient ruling power of FA.

[@Kosmos_er]

@@tarnishedarchaeologist for sure, but I think it's also worth considering that the ring configuration in the ancient incantations like crucible, which are associated with godfrey's early reign are that of the current elden ring too

[@KraakenTowers]

One thing I'm curious about: Miquella was evidently already born when the Night of the Black Knives happened, as he thought of him as a brother and worked to reverse his fate. But if Marika's progeny with Radagon were "backups" for the failure of the Golden Lineage, would that still line up?

[@VorpalSmilodon]

So Marika's use for her children eventually became only two specific things - become a god, or a lord. She wanted free of the Greater Will, and the Golden Lineage bore no daughters/Empyreans.

[@jeffjefferson2853]

Radagon and the Greater Will wanted Ranni to marry Godwyn. Marika didn't approve, so in order to keep the peace the 3 of them made a new arrangement. When that didn't work out (cursed twins and reborn vessel of the GEQ), Ranni was back on the menu. The rest is history

[@Gyokosz]

Hol up whats this reborn vessel of the gloam eyed queen thing youre talking about are we talking Godwyn now??@@jeffjefferson2853

[@Zyvelteas]

I almost hollowed waiting for this one. Thank you, TA!

[@hellrott]

"don't you dare go hollow" and it's community has to be one of the most legitimately wholesome things I've ever seen borne off the internet

[@BurgermanForever-nh2vp]

Imagine uncovering something written in an ancient language and then realizing whoever made it provided TWO translations for you.

[@mrman696]

Didn’t know the Tarnished Archeologist discovered time travel. You click on a video and you’re 30-40 minutes into the future in what felt like 10. You’re one of the best Elden Ring Lore KZbinrs.

[@ackvendor]

Well this certainly puts things in perspective. Some remnant questions I am left with i) At what point in the timeline was Farum Azula yeeted into the sky, because would it be correct to say that the city itself was a greater part of the landmass that we arrive at from Farum Greatbridge. ii) The succession plan must have been in place before the Night of Black Knives, and the aforementioned event triggering the The Shattering. I wonder to what degree did Ranni feature in those succession plans given that she is an Empyrean and was given Blaidd as a shadow. Moreover if Marika’s preferred succession was Miquella then what fate was Ranni trying so hard to escape? iii) Post Night of Black Knives, it would make sense that Marika sees the same events play out as they did when she took over, so seeing the cycle she beelines for the abandonment of the succession plans, has Maliketh pierce her. Guess Gideon wasnt lying when he said that Marika now just wants everyone to struggle. The parallel between Marika and Ranni’s methods are a bit striking. Ranni’s vision of the world is also one of struggle but with different conditions. Ranni also has her Godfrey (The Tarnished of no reknown) and her shadow. And in a manner we do betray that shadow, like Marika betrays Maliketh. Is it a stretch to say that Ranni has some reincarnation of Marika the same way Melina might embody some reincarnation of the gloam eyed queen? iv) This one likely has least evidence. But did Marika always intend to kill the Elden Beast/Greater Will given the purpose she gave Hewg. The Roundtable Hold we visit does seem to be a pocket dimension created in some part via Melina. He does quite explicitly state that he made a promise to Marika. I would imagine this succession plan was likely in place to oppose the Greater Will. Which would make some thematic sense since Marika is from a people who were originally opposed to the Greater Will. Would it be then a stretch to say that Ranni in opposing the Greater Will ends up acting inadvertently alligned with Greater Will’s goals. I use the term loosely because it might be that Marika/Melina/Ranni may think of the Two Fingers or even the Elden Beast as the summation of the Greater Will’s goals. But they are envoys and vassals respectively. v) I wonder to what degree getting rid of the Greater Will was Marika’s end game from the very start of her campaign. She seems to be quite similar thematically to Lady Eboshi from Princess Mononoke, well at least until the point when she abadons the succession plan. Hell the fact that the Elden Beast looks so similar to the Nightwalker, makes me think even more of that. These points do make me think about the prior attempted burning of the Erdtree. But overall this does evolve the narrative considerably. Wonderful video really. Your videos make me pause and often re evaluate whole chunks of the game’s lore that was not even covered in the video.

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

Thanks for paying such close attention! Some of your questions will be addressed in subsequent videos, but briefly regarding IV): Yes, we haven't talked about it much, but Hewg's narrative certainly implies Marika's intentions were to kill a God. Unfortunately its ambiguous -- she could be trying to kill the Elden Beast or herself. But Roderika's dialogue -- "So slay her, with the weapons he smithed. Slay the god, Marika, who cursed us all" -- makes it clear that Marika knew the price she would pay for this plan. She wanted to die. If you were crucified but still forced to make use of your divine womb, wouldn't you?

[@ackvendor]

@@tarnishedarchaeologist That is indeed plausible. But why just stop at having her womb stabbed. If Marika wanted her own death then surely Maliketh would have been able to accomplish that no?

[@sclafantasy]

The GOAT has returned. Looking forward to this one!

[@T3G33]

The Godskin duo in Farum Azula could actually be there to kill Maliketh I feel, Bernahl only drops the blasphemous claw after the fight (in which he is a summon) so they could be associated with Ranni's plan to use Rykard as backup if things go astray and the godskins are somewhat associated with the two of them. they could also be partially motivated by revenge? but thats probably a less easy to substantiate claim. with Farum being in a weird spot in terms of the flow of time (it always being day, Placidusax's corpse imbedded in the wall despite him being beyond time, etc.) it feels difficult to place their actions in Farum on the timeline accurately.

[@benjamingehl9542]

I don't agree with every theory you put forward, but it is always a good day whenever Tarished Arch. releases a video.

[@Gyokosz]

Disagreement is healthy TA does shout out comments of people who make him reconsider the lore. We all have our little headcanon. Its like trying to figure out how dinosaurs look based on only their bones, they might have feathers or whatever else we dont fucking know we just guess and one of those guesses made by one of the people might be correct.

[@edgesofreality]

Yes! The best Elden Ring lore channel is back!

[@kell_gg]

Always excited to see a TA notification. This video in particular starts to line up some very important events. Can't wait for the Towers video. Thank you!!

[@titaniumteddybear]

If "Demigod" is simply a political title (indicating proximity to the Royal family) then that implies that "Queen" is much the same. Doesn't this imply that the Gloam-Eyed Queen could simply have declared herself "Queen", without ever taking control of the Elden Ring? Isn't this why Marika is both "Queen" and "God": the two titles are not the same. So perhaps the GE Queen was a Queen but not a god. She declared herself "Queen" and was powerful enough that people had to take the title seriously. Just like in real life, sort of.

[@guygordon2780]

Agreed. I don't see The Gloam-Eyed Queen having been a God. Being a Queen doesn't maker her a god.

[@Baconomics1]

@@guygordon2780 there's also Queen Rennala and even the Demi-Human Queens

[@maycebignoumba3745]

Queen is used here as in insect types queens they are the only one to have childs in the whole comminity. GeQ Rennala demi-humans and Marika have all this in commun they created life. Queen create and god are people linked to outer god

[@GoulaLegamer]

But she was a god indeed in posession of the most dangerous part of the elden ring the rune of death , she was the personification of death so she was way more than "powerful enough"

[@beniron5807]

She had her own 2 fingers. Ranni says only She, and the twins had 2 fingers. What this reveals is that not even Ranni knew of another candidate. Of course she didn’t, because the Gloom Eyed Queen was from the time period before. So either she and Merika fought for the title and lost or like in this says, she WAS the Queen with her own Elden Lord. And we know of an Elden Lord that existed before Godfrey do we not?

[@ornu01]

Woo-Woo! Finally, I keep checking back here the past month thinking you must have uploaded by now and it's finally here!

[@Maffo__]

Your best work so far, keep it up! I'm glad to have been along for the ride from the start, you have brought such an inspiring new perspective to Lore Hunting

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

Thanks!

[@jeftecoutinho]

I wonder if the reason for Marika get stabbed with the Death Spear was to contain Radagon, to prevent him from doing anything after she was finished shattering the Elden Ring. It would be basically a checkmate: Radagon cast a seal on the Erdtree to prevent people from entering, but he cannot do anything with the Ring unless someone steps inside the Erdtree to remove the spear.

[@lillonerboi504]

But nobody removed the spear. It just disappears. How would Marika do it herself anyways if the greater will doesn’t approve of her actions?

[@judelee9156]

Finally 😍 someone who hasn't just assumed that the gloam eyed queen IS Marika or Melina 👏 excellent video

[@lordpickaxe788]

Agreed! It does get a bit tired

[@ZAKMagnus]

I'd love to hear more about "Godfrey's elden ring," the more-symmetric one, about how it was different and why it changed. I may be misunderstanding but I don't think you're right about the "via egnatia," as you call it, ending at that memorial. It runs from Stormveil castle, past the memorial, into and through Caelid. It is worn to near nothing between the castle and the memorial, only really being evidenced by the Saintsbridge. Within Caelid itself, the tiles are also extremely (and suddenly, geographically speaking) worn, but if you look closely, you can still see "Godfrey's elden ring" on some of the Caelid road tiles, especially on the edge tiles rather than the center ones. So I would not say Godfrey's road ends, in a literal sense, at that memorial; it passes through in both directions. But maybe I've misunderstood your meaning.

[@rainbowkrampus]

There are number of ways you could define Limgrave as the end of his campaign. One is simply that the campaign wasn't a straight line. It's possible Godfrey looped back from Caelid. Alternatively, there's the speculation that the Lands Between moved at one point and Caelid wasn't always where it currently is. So it's more a meeting of two roads rather than a continuing of one.

[@willowparker-ct3pq]

I think the fourth Great Rune in Godfrey’s version of the Elden Ring is the Rune of Death. The description of the Mending Rune of the Death Prince says “The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death,” and TA has previously proposed that the Golden Order refers specifically to the era of Radagon’s lordship. This would have to mean that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was in fact defeated between the Erdtree era and the Golden Order era rather than before Marika’s rule began, but I think that is a better fit with the evidence we have.

[@exquisitedoomlapointe185]

To support your theory, if you look at the faruum azula's Elden ring, you can see those four rings. Both symbols before the removal of the rune of death. I also can't help but notice how many more rings this old ring contains. Must of been quite a bit of demigods during that time.

[@Photoloss]

@@willowparker-ct3pq The present-day Elden Ring also has 4 main circles. The bottom one is merely moved closer to the centre. Based on Marika's Scarseal and the structure we see after defeating Maliketh it seems unlikely Destined Death would be ring-shaped at all.

[@leohirtsche8341]

If Godfreays Ring is the four clover and Rhadagons is the three clover, then the missing Ring/rune could be the one preseted to Rennala.

[@embargovenom9948]

I'd been checking the channel every day for the past two weeks. Glad to see another video. : )

[@grizzledude344]

I love this video, it was beautifully directed and so interesting! TA thank you for producing these.

[@Eruptflail]

Your videos are so incredible. Keep up the good work.

[@strawberrypimp1386]

You always love to see one of the best souls teams posting more amazing content

[@lordpickaxe788]

Boy was I hyped for this video, and you did not disappoint!

[@AllCloudsAreBunnies]

I’ve been kind of wondering when I’d see another video from y’all and here I finally see this had been out for a seven days already. Better late than never though! Finished watching it now,that was great. I can’t wait for more.

[@TehspaceLulz]

Given the aesthetic links between the ancient Giants, Farum Azula and the Uhl Dynasty - all regions either buried beneath the earth or suspended eternally above it - it feels a bit unlikely that the Gloam Eyed Queen was a contemporary of Placidusax. Further, the idea of an extant dynasty of Farum Azula feels contrary to the fragmentary notion of the Crucible.

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

Blaidd (and Maliketh) are not mind controlled by Greater Will, but compelled by Fingers. And Fingers are demonstrated to be at loss what Greater Will ultimately wants. Fingers wanted to punish Marika, as her trespass "demanded heavy sentence" as they tell us through Enya. Fingers also possess means to grant their servant Destined Death effect. Therefore it is no great leap of deduction to say that Elden Beast imprisoned Marika and Fingers (who have shown to give their agents destined death as a weapon as with Baneful Shadow) then either compelled Maliketh or some other servant of theirs to spear Marika, to keep her in perpetual limbo. Even if she is bound by Elden Beast, she could still struggle against her bonds if not sedated by Death. However, because Marika and Radagon are one at this point, and Radagon worked to repair the Elden Ring tirelessly, Destined Death spear would need to vanish for Radagon to continue his repairwork and need to be reapplied. Therefore more neat explanation is that Destined Death spear is recent development caused by us. Because Destined Death rune is freed by us (we don´t absorb or own it like with other great runes) it seeks to return to the Elden Ring, and doing so spears Marika (who occupies place that normally would be reserved for death) and doing so renders her/Radagon/Elden Beast vulnerable to killing, since they are touched by death.

[@WeirdGameplay]

Underrated comment that makes a lot of sense. Indeed, "the rune of death was unbound". Maliketh being the one who stabs Marika is very stretched. How can he access her? When did it happen?

[@Cha05typhoon]

Fantastic video and theories again as always! Love the vids

[@NerdishNature]

Been rewatching all your videos while starting my first NG+. Only gets better with time 😊 I love your new logo too! Nice work. Can’t wait for the DLC content ❤

[@Radditz770]

Very good video! Everytime the talk of the rune of death comes up, and the consequences of taking it out of the complete Elden Ring(both literally in terms of effect and the political consequence)/why Marika did it, I can't help but think about the rest of the runes that were removed from the Elden Ring. Like the one that Radagon gave to Rennala. You don't just "casually" pluck a great rune from the Elden Ring. Which rune was that? What effect did it have on the nature of Lands Between? If Destined Death had the effect of natural death no longer being a part of the Lands Between, what did that rune do? And what did it do politically? Marika would never sanction such an action if she couldn't gain politically from it. And honestly, to me, gambling a whole elden ring on "it will traumatize Rennala and leave her docile" isn't good enough. And then we have all the runes the demigods took during the shattering as well, as well as the runes that were left with Marika's corpse in the Erdtree. I also have some thoughts about the thorns in Stormveil Castle, but that's completely unrelated to this very educational video about rulers come and pass. Thanks for great content as always! :D

[@swordierre9341]

I think the rune was considered heretical, miriel calls the rannelas use of the rune to reincarnate "heretical". This probably means the rune power was disapproved of by the erdtree.

[@Radditz770]

@@swordierre9341 Maybe it was the rune of life and is considered heretical because Marika was the only one supposed to be able to govern life or death. Or maybe it's hererical because she rebirthed people without a larval tear, making them into lobotomized barely functional creatures.

[@leohirtsche8341]

The video shows us a transition from the four clover elden ring to the three clover form. If the four clover one is linked to Godfrey and the three clover one to Radagon, the missing Ring would be the one that is the Rune presented to Rennala. It is calles the rune of unborn demigods. The question remains if this present was at the beginning or the end of Rahadagons and Rennalas engagement. If it is the beginning this gives us a picuture that Rhadagon presented Renalla the ability to give birth to Demigods, which she then did. If the Carian was this enormous power opposing the erdtree forces, maybe this was part of the things, that enabled peace between the Moon and the Tree. Giving Rennala the position of becoiming the mother of demigods. But as Rhadagon left Rennala, she in some way lost control over that power, maybe because of Rhadagons/Marikas absence. This is of cource just specualtion, but with the hints presented there are ideas possible that are more then the gambling theory.

[@WanderedIn]

@@leohirtsche8341 I just want to say I really like this thoughtful post; the question of what the Rune of the Unborn meant for the Elden Ring is a fascinating one. Perhaps it was even meant to preserve this Rune for some purpose, or Marika/Radagon believed there need be no further births of demigods in some sense. But it must have been before the birth of Miquella and Malenia…

[@ethanwashington6789]

​​​​​@@leohirtsche8341 its stated that Miquella abandoned his great rune long ago; I'd like to imagine the Rune of the Unborn was not just the "Rune of Life", but Miquella's Rune of Abundance. It allows rebirth (Miquella's entire goal in the cocoon, the scholars are reborn by Renalla) and a degree of mind control (Miquella bewitches people, Renalla was bewitched/driven mad by the amber egg). We know that one of the closest people to Miquella was Radagon, so it seems likely the Rune of the Unborn was passed from Miquella to Radagon, and then from Radagon to Renalla in a final act of sabatoge. Edit: another reeeally odd parallel is that the Miquellan Knights (an order of knights that never happened) just blatanty reuse carian iconography, its even mentioned in the sword description. Not sure what to make of this, though.

[@pritzi101]

Yes! You have no idea how many times I looked at the channel in the off chance I'd missed a video.

[@xavierwherley6841]

I'd amend this to say that the God of Placidusax was actually the Twinbird, god of the Death Rite birds, who is depicted and described like a phoenix, unifying the concepts of Life and Death and as providing an eventual (if unfulfilled) cycle of Rebirth through the Death Rite Birds. There are also reliefs in Farum Azula that I interpret to depict the motif of a two headed bird, which lends plausibility to this interpretation. I think it should also be noted that a number of the primordial deities of Elden Ring take the form of animals: the God Devouring Serpent, the Scorpion God of Rot, the Twin Bird, Placidusax himself, and even the Elden Beast could be placed into this category of Primordial animalistic deities. This could be the earliest attested generation of divine forces in Elden Ring. I believe the Twinbird fled when the Greattree was felled (through some event unattested thus far, although I would perhaps correlate the event with the arrival of the Giants in the lands between, after all, how could anyone know the power of the flame of ruin to destroy the sacred tree if that power had not been demonstrated at least once in the past but I digress). I believe that the union of Placidusax and the Twin Bird to also be the reason why ancient dragons have both Draconic and Avian features, and why dragons of later periods lack avian features at all. I also believe the stormhawks, avians, to be connected to the Ancient Dragons through the association of the Twinbird. This explains their presence at Farum Azula as well as their loyalty to the storm of which Placidusax is Lord. At the fleeing of the Twinbird, the forces of Life and Death were cleaved from the unity they had in the body of the Twinbird into the Great runes of two Empyreans - Marika and the Gloam-eyed Queen. Furthermore, I would place the life and reign of the Gloam Eyed Queen during the era of the Crucible of Life after the felling of the Greattree of the Twinbird. This ancient "shattering" would mirror the time of the current state of affairs in Elden Ring with many competing demigods and more importantly Empyreans, which we know the Gloam Eyed Queen was. I believe the Godhunt of her forces was to eliminate the other demigods and Empyreans, so that she could ascend to godhood, however Maliketh of course would curb these ambitions with his blade as he would with many other demigods in competition with Marika. I would also like to push back against the conclusion that the Godskin apostles and nobles have draconic features because they do not actually share features with the dragons in game but rather share features with the Serpents. This is because I believe that the Gloam-eyed Queen consorted with the God Devouring Serpent, after all what do you do at the end of a hunt if not devour your quarry? I think what supports this assertion are the presences of a Godskin noble and black flame monk at the volcano manor as well as the similarities between the apostles and the man serpents (particularly that stretching they do with their abdomens). Furthermore, I would go so far as to say that we are actually given the true name of the Gloam-eyed Queen (or perhaps one of her female relatives) through an item acquired at the Volcano Manor - She is Daedicar, mother of countless "grotesque children" through her blasphemous union with the God Devouring Serpent. I do admit though that this connection must be made through context clues and reading comprehension, but that's exactly what this channel specializes in, is it not?

[@ReneAensland]

This one was so good! I can't get over the lore! Thank you.

[@sniperfity2327]

I've been eagerly awaiting this upload. You are one of my favorite content creators, and the effort you put into these videos shows. Keep up the awesome work!

[@bell5082]

Man you never disappoint, I am excited for the next one. Divine towers is probably gonna be something quite illuminating.

[@Pitchfallis]

This is SOOOO good!! Always on point, Tarnished Archaelogist!

[@hellrott]

Ayy, anohter upload, excellent! You always give such high quality content, truly you deserve more viewership than you have currently

[@ciro_costa]

i don't think this is it. i think it's more like the gloam eyed queen appeared at the end of the age of plenty as the rightfull sucessor chosen by the greater will. and at the time the rune of death was still in the ring and the cycle of life and death happened through the erdtree but marika didn't want her age to end much like gwyn. and so defeated the gloam eyed queen and sealed the rune of death maybe this is when the erdtree was first burned thus starting the age of erdtree worship

[@fomoriandream5895]

Outstanding as always. Thank you for your hard work

[@HitHardHerbs]

I listen to these at work I was so happy to see a new one, great video

[@WanderedIn]

Wonderful to see the channel updating again! I’m broadly sympathetic to your reading here; as always I have a few nitpicks, but the basic conception of the GEQ as the shadow and counterpart of Marika is one I heartily endorse (the shadow of the Erdtree, one might say). My main nitpick is that, while I don’t think this is necessarily any better supported than yours - it’s another theory, in dialogue with it - I like the reading of the GEQ as another Empyrean contender contemporary to the young Marika. This parallels the current conditions of the Lands Between, with multiple contending Empyreans. In support of this, consider that the GEQ is never called a god in any supporting text; Maliketh could be the ‘death of the demigods’ as in the death they own and command, the Death (Psychopomp) that serves Marika. This is an odd reading but one I think aligns well with the common usage of Death as a noun in the Lands Between.

[@WanderedIn]

There’s a specific issue also: the GEQ was a Godslayer, so which gods did she slay? If there was a period of many gods and no single lord that she and Marika arose in, the Crucible period, this would fit well with the evidence.

[@WanderedIn]

Another note: I think that Marika’s story of hubris is more an ironic fate; declared Eternal and held in suspended life by the Elden Beast, vassal of the Greater Will which desired the Order’s continuation, Marika desires only Death: the same thing she banished, plucked from the Golden Order.

[@WanderedIn]

I always end up with a lot to say, because I just want to converse with the ideas. Another one: I think that Malenia being an Empyrean is important. She was intended by the fingers to be another possible God of the New Age, but chose instead to be her brother’s blade. This again parallels - and recuperates - the battle of Empyreans in the prior age, as the fingers expected contestation, not familial collaboration.

[@abydosianchulac2]

​@@WanderedInYour point on the Crucible just made me consider that the "Crucible is the primordial Erdtree" thing may be too literal, and the same goes for the multi-limbed tree statues. Could the Crucible be or overlap with the GEQ era? If the Crucible is a period where multiple trees sprouted from the stump of the previous plant, did they each have their own god and Elden Lord championing its growth? Does the pruning of all else till you get the one Erdtree coincide with the GEQ's reputation of being a godslayer? The point that a "crucible" is a way of describing a proving ground or conflict has been made before, and our Crucible Knights are some of the toughest enemies we encounter even when compared with Golden Order fighters from later eras. Did Godfrey need the CKs to be so strong to battle other gods? Could the overlaying existence of multiple holy influences explain why some like the Misbegotten and Omen were considered holy and then despised (that happening more concurrently then consecutively like had been previously thought)? So many new questions.

[@WanderedIn]

@@abydosianchulac2I would theorize that the multi-tree period of the crucible likely had no Elden Lord or single God a la Marika - it’s the period from which the Fell God hails, and likely other gods as well. It’s also referred to as a ‘pagan’ time (the winged scythe description) which implies a polytheistic period of multiple divinities before the establishment of the Church of Marika. Whether every such god had a sprout seems unlikely to me - few of the other gods or the QEQ as an Empyrean seem to have had tree motifs. And the Primordial Erdtree was similar to Life Itself - if Marika was champion and Empyrean of Life, as she implies in her victory speech at the First Church of Marika, then it follows that she was the only tree-champion in contention.

[@steve_is_well]

Fantastic work, TA.

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

Thanks for the Superthanks!

[@michaelmrozek604]

Everyday I grow more and more certain that this man is an actual archeologist who’s just bored

[@abrb1989]

I love this channel so much. I know I've said it before, probably a few times, but the revelations this channel has brought to us about this game are just so astounding. Thank you, as always, for bringing us clarity in such a deep fog of ambiguity. You always seem to connect the ideas my mind is chewing on but never seems to bring together properly.

[@sweetpotatodato6068]

I feel so vindicated by this vid! I’ve always suspected that the GEQ was the former god of the previous age. It just seemed to make the most sense to me, but I was never quite able to explain why. Looking forward to the next episode!

[@leifivarhalas5901]

I'm amazed by your content. I've been a Souls fan since Demon Souls, a lore enthusiast since DS1 and have followed all the big youtubers since, you my man have in short time risen to the top of my list as favoritt all time youtube content creator. Just woah!

[@coreyrachar9694]

First there was ENB, then there was hawkshaw... Now it's TA. It is all merely a cycle.

[@leifivarhalas5901]

@@coreyrachar9694 You forgot the great VaatiVidya, and a bunch of others but VaatiVidya really deserves a mention ^^ Gotta say I really enjoy the age of TA. Gotta contact Gwyn for some tips on how to extend a age for "some" time.

[@coreyrachar9694]

@@leifivarhalas5901 I personally don't enjoy vaati or his content. It's overly dramatic and errs on the side of sentimentality when really, I'm interested in the facts. IK he's like... probably by far the most popular creator but I truly don't think he deserves to be on the same list as the ones already mentioned.

[@leifivarhalas5901]

@@coreyrachar9694 Valid opinion, but if it's all about facts and deduction while presentation isn't a requirement then Quelaag should be right up your alley :D

[@coreyrachar9694]

@@leifivarhalas5901 that's true actually, I've watched most of her content and highly enjoyed it :).

[@TRACTOOOOOOOOOR]

I lost count of how many times I have replayed this video. Amazing work as always.

[@coolfish420]

I think that with Shadow of the Erdtree, there's a real chance that Messmer is the third child, and that it was him who pierced his mother (Marika's) womb. My reasoning is this: 1) His epithet is the Impaler. To be impaled is to be pierced by a spear or other sharp object. It could be describing his battle prowess, but what if it's a description of Messmer's engineered role? Destroying the womb of a god is a great way to get yourself a nickname. 2) I think it's more in character for Marika to have a child specifically to ensure that the succession succeeds instead of assuming that Maliketh could be bent to destroy Marika's womb. 3) Messmer is never mentioned in history. Taking a cue from Darius, the only person who could control the narrative from the top down would be Marika and her aides. She wouldn't want it getting out that she used Destined Death to achieve her goals after staking her legitimacy on defeating the GEQ. So, she has Messmer banished to the Land of Shadow (a place that Miyazaki confirms Marika knows about) to hide out. This way, the integrity of her family is maintained. No one knows about Messmer, who looks awfully blasphemous, and so the facade is preserved. Messmer is, in essence, the "fall guy". Marika ensures that nothing can be traced back to Messmer, and Messmer takes the fall and lays low. What I think about this changes every minute I think about it. I also think that Messmer could be a child of the GEQ who attacked Marika. Or maybe he tricked Maliketh into doing it. Or maybe they're working together for some reason. This is why I love the game!

[@sablemae8853]

So ready for this

[@petevance422]

Quickly became one of my favorites. Even when I don't agree with a conclusion, I'm loving the journey

[@adrianblania5565]

As always amazing work. Cannot wait for more 😍

[@NumberD2000]

I think what I love abt these videos is that these actually kinda feel like old National Geo. Docs i would see on the History Channel. So good

[@Stripehat]

I am always SHOCKED to see how few views this channel gets. TA, the algorithm is doing you dirty! Fantastic work, as always. My favorite lore/world history channel!

[@Blade_of_Tomoe]

Maliketh piercing Marika seems like a stretch. He has a line where he says: "Forgive me, Marika... The Golden Order... cannot be restored." meaning that he was last tasked by Marika to restore the order. On top of that he is collecting deathroot to achieve this.

[@fredscoffee]

The crucifiction is a move of the elden beast, so it is the elden beast who pierced Marika. Why it is red is likely because it was an elden beast channeled by Radagon rather than Marika herself.

[@Shmethan]

​@@fredscoffeeI'd assumed it's red because it uses the rune of death in an ironic twist of fate

[@hunterterrat9105]

red is always associated with the run of death which radagon did not possess@@fredscoffee

[@hunterterrat9105]

could be interpreted as 'forgive me, the order cannot be restored, so i have to do this thing to establish the new order' lamenting that the old order can't be restores and things have to happen this way. Still, it does seem like there isn't a huge amount of evidence that maliketh was the one to stab merika.

[@teachergeoff9833]

excellent as always!

[@FFNOJG]

YES! IVE BEEN WAITING ON THIS

[@ahbooza]

From what I understand, Marika usurped power from the GEQ. Her first succession plan was Godwyn and Ranni, but Ranni noped out, and in karmic justice, used Destined Death to pretty much wipe out Marika’s Golden Lineage, so a presumably panicked and frustrated Marika had to come up with another succession plan. In the truest form of “keeping it in the family”, she fused with Radagon to birth the triplets, one to succeed her (Miquella), one to protect the heir (Malenia), and one to burn down the Erdtree (Melina). This plan also failed due to the actions of remnants of the Golden Lineage that she deliberately shunned (Mohg and Morgott). Yet more karmic justice. So now, in desperation, Marika calls upon any random Tarnished to help her cause and continue her lineage. Or does she? Ofnir spoke of Marika’s sorrow after we tell him about the Haligtree, and that Miquella is the final piece of the puzzle. His armour states that he was scared of what he found, and in his dying words he said a Tarnished cannot be a Lord and a man cannot kill a god after saying Marika has high hopes for us. Could it be that Marika never deviated from her Miquella succession plan, and is using the Tarnished to seek Miquella for her? I think (hope) this would be answered in the DLC.

[@aanastennu]

Great video as always, but here are some thoughts. If the Gloam-Eyed Queen was the god before Marika then what is the explanation for the Godskins' godhunts? The swaddling cloth says 'soon they will grow to be the death of the gods.' What gods will they be the death of if not the Golden Lineage? The skin of their robes seems to match the pale white skin and golden eyes of Godrick. If her consort was Placidusax wouldn't that make her the actual first god, with no prior dynasty to hunt and destroy? It seems to me that the GEQ is much more likely to have been a challenger after Marika's reign was established rather than the one she supplanted, and the Godskins seem much more like an artificial army raised in secret than demigods of a previous age. Also, from the red color of gold among other things Destined Death should have still been part of the Elden ring during the Crucible Era. The aspects of the Crucible incantations seem to be draconic features, while the godskins only have serpentine features, I find it more likely that they are connected with Eiglay than with dragons. If Placidusax's god is anywhere in game my guess is all that is left of them is the Fingerslayer blade. Secondly, rather than Maliketh piercing her womb with destined death I see that spear as being the fragment of Death that was stolen from Maliketh during the Night of Black Knives, used by Ranni to imbue the black knives with death, then returned to the one who commissioned the theft, Marika herself, by her loyal Black Knives. It certainly looks like the physical fragment of a rune. And if Marika was really all in on the Haligtree age, perhaps that was the true motive for the Night of the Black Knives, to clear away the old lineage of inheritors and leave Miquella the only legitimate heir.

[@lordpickaxe788]

Yes, it doesn't entirely fit chronologically either - the Black Flame Monks were "enthralled" by the Black Flame and turned traitor, and they existed some time into Marikas reign. Furthermore, the Noble Presence incantation is mirrored after Wrath of Gold, an Erdtree incantation. Finally, the GEQ is described as an Empyrean, not a god, in item descriptions. So she was a successor and rival to Marika, not the Elden God. The arguments been made, and is fair, that the Black Monks could have left the order even after the GEQs defeat, but being seduced by a flame that no longer kills gods is less compelling. Finally, I find that in these types of videos, the godhunt itself isn't that well scrutinised - the GEQ et al were hunting, skinning and wearing demigods. This is violent, vitriolic. Why? What are the motives? We're not given an answer, but the GEQ being a successor and rival to Marika make more sense motive wise. Finally (finally) Black Flame Monk Amon's spirit ashes say he turned traitor because of cowardice - why would a monk leave the Fire Monks out of cowardice? For a flame that can kill a god.

[@jamesanator1000]

I've been waiting for the next upload woopee!

[@ohdahngboi_2237]

Found my new favorite channel fall asleep to, learning new lore about my favorite games while learning about the lore of my own species

[@Imminent_Wrath]

awesome! i been waiting too long for the next vid lol.. excellent vid thought im surprised u didnt explore the possible identity of the gloam eyed queen... it seems your opposed to the melina theory

[@ADumas-jx1ev]

Thanks for the perspective shift. This made me think. I've always viewed the Nox as descendants of Marika, as she's the main empryean of her generation thats revealed to us. But the gloam eyed queen couldve actually been their creator, as another empyrean, and sometimes referred to in other content as the Dusk eyes queen, which has to do with the full moon. Which couldve led to partially be the reason for their banishment and betrayal. They clearly know more about death and stars than most other peoples from the elden ring region, proof of which they had the fingerslayer blade. Just more to think about. Great content!

[@lillonerboi504]

The nox are well before Marika. TA has some good lore diving on the eternal cities and it seems the oldest of orders in these cities predate even tree worship in the lands between. Also note the term “Nox” has obvious connotations to night. Nokstella could be roughly translated to “Night Star” in ER’s half way version of Latin. These people came before probably even the Elden Beast, but perhaps not, and worshipped the moon. The “night star”. Presumably the greater will being tied to the sun almost certainly, considers this continued moon worship as direct treason and banished them underground with the arrival of the Ring and the beast it incarnates into, which we know can use similar magic to Astel and may well have summoned the meteor which contained it.

[@dylanwarner6035]

Amazing job, top quality stuff !

[@clobbopus_used_beat]

Stopped everyone and watched this in its entirety. Amazing stuff

[@Bakemonwithahat]

I find it interesting the role of the tarnished to "seed marika's womb" and to what level it is literal. The player character can be female and there are many other tarnished who are women after all. There is prescedent for changing one's sex through the mirror in the round table hold, but I don't know if it is more of a gameplay convenience or an actual artifact in the lands between. With mikella being a successor for marika maybe sex just doesn't play a part in the process? and it's all made by divine magic or something. I guess fertility and birthing in the lands between isn't necessarily a feminine thing, with dung eater and goldmask both "birthing" mending runes. Anyway, great video! Excited to see what you guys do next.

[@willowparker-ct3pq]

Yeah, I agree that Miquella being Marika’s intended successor is a clear indication that it must be a metaphysical/spiritual seeding, with physical intercourse and gestation being unnecessary. Unless the plan was for Miquella’s cocoon to change his sex as well as cure him of his eternal childhood. But if that were the case, you’d think Mohg would recognize that halting his metamorphosis would put a bit of a damper on his plans of creating a new dynasty.

[@giftedreason5051]

Just holy shit dude. All the things I had major disparity in connecting and understanding he just drew together and condensed and simplified. made me want to see the next video so much more intensely.

[@s.x4644]

Great stuff!

[@rowk_art]

That was awesome! Thank you for an interesting ride!

[@Pizzifrizzo]

Your videos are always fascinating, TA, even when I disagree with your conclusions! Thanks for the insights! In this case, I've again got some gripes with your timeline: if there were Fire Monks among the Gloam-eyed Queen's followers, that means that the Godskin Apostles themselves can't be reliably dated before the birth of the Golden Order (sealing of the Giants' Flame and removal of Destined Death from the Ring). This would, of course, characterise this conflict as a rebellion, rather than a succession. Maliketh would be called "Death of the Demigods" because the Gloam-eyed Queen was a demigod child of Marika, entrusted with Destined Death, and empyrean to boot; her offspring would be considered demigods, just like Godwyn's Golden Lineage. What do you think about this?

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

The black flame monks switched sides after the Giant's war, true. But there's no reason to assume they were part of the original black flame conflict with the GEQ.

[@sablemae8853]

They're followers of the black flame not the gloam eyed queen just like the flame of the giants enticed them. The Blackflame Monks, enthralled by the god-slaying black flame, became traitors, abandoning their posts as guardians. The seduction of a taboo is never easily spurned. Amon swore fealty to the god-slaying black flame, and so became the first fire monk to turn traitor. Or perhaps it is better said that he fled from the Giants' Flame-out of cowardice. They worshipped the flame

[@Pizzifrizzo]

​@@tarnishedarchaeologist Sorry for the late reply, it's been a busy week. You're right, there's no reason to assume, if we take that piece of info by itself. But with all the other info about the GEQ, that single piece of info easily becomes one of the few hints we have regarding a timeline. There are also other reasons to assume that the Blackflame Monks rebelled alongside the GEQ (Maliketh's title, the past presence of the Godskins on the Mountaintops after the scouring, since those were giant territory before, and so on). If it's like you say and the Blackflame Monks rebelled long after the GEQ, how would the story benefit? What's the thematic significance? It'd just be a redundant piece of empty fluff. I find it hard to believe that it's not an intentional clue on Miyazaki's part, who writes all item descriptions. And this is without factoring Melina in the equation. If you take her into consideration, what you have is a complex plot about an empyrean whose destiny was denied by Marika, used to perpetuate the vision of a deathless world that she didn't share. You have a reason for why the Serpent is a "traitor to the Erdtree", and not merely one of its enemies. And it all fits both chronologically and thematically, as much as your take, but without leaving out any piece of info. In short, although I can't express all my argument here due to space constraints, I feel that, while technically correct, your counter-argument isn't too convincing when examined in the broader tapestry of clues we are given. I feel you've built such a great and beautiful reconstruction of the events surrounding Marika's rise that you're now trying to fit everything into it, even when it'd be easier to do otherwise. I'm sorry, but I feel like Ockham's razor is against you on this specific issue (the GEQ). I hope this didn't come across as an attack, it's not. Anyway, thank you for reading. Please let me know if you'd like for me to elaborate more on some points.

[@BaileyThere]

I always thought it was clever that you would probably first read “godskin” as “god’s kin” only to realize the horror later of what they were wearing, “god skin”, but another level of cleverness is to also hint that they were probably also “god’s kin” aka demi-gods. Also, Maliketh’s moniker of “death of the demigods” fits for someone who pierced the womb of the god, preventing her from begetting new demigods.

[@Epistolary8]

I noticed the Elden Ring > Erdtree mural, but it completely slipped my notice that the tree then connected to an egg that became a new tree. Incredible observation - it seems like undeniable proof that Marika was 100% on board with Miquella replacing the Golden Tree. Given the atrocities that Marika committed to create the Golden Order, and the drastically more benevolent intent of Miquella’s Order, this would suggest that Marika regretted her actions during her wars of conquest - a point emphasized by her decision that “the days of blind belief are long past.”

[@Michijere77]

You are a master. I love this channel. I’m hoping that a certain other from soft video creator doesn’t steal your stuff. I subbed and hope this channel grows.

[@apophisstr6719]

About the spear that pierced Marika, I now find it really weird how the Elden Beast's grab attack actually mirrored the way of Marika's crucifixion, but instead of the red spear, it uses golden spears to pierced us.

[@codylucynki1279]

Maybe in the night of black knifes Marika was also betrayed putting her and her tentative plans on a litteral death clock

[@ichdu-fk6xc]

woooooo yeah

[@steve_is_well]

Wonderful, as always.

[@coreyrachar9694]

literally the one channel on youtube that when I see a new video I drop everything and watch it.

[@KitsuneShapeShifter]

Just now noticed that the jewel on Rennala's chest is the same kind as on the Godskin apostle set!

[@ericjensen7580]

Hey! After we defeat Radagon / Marika, we get the sacred relic sword. It has a somewhat sinilar design to the the Godslayer's great sword. Perhaps, to take your idea of easure fron history even more literal: Her remembrance within the erd tree was used to make the Godslaying sword. Also, another canidate for who impaled Marika: Hewg. The dude talks again and again about being asked to craft a Godslaying sowrd.

[@Purriah]

Not Hewg lol.

[@DopeDoo]

watched twice, amazing work

[@friendlyfox4735]

excited for this!!

[@michaelsimpson1224]

3 Minutes in, and my personal favorite historical power and figure have already come up as the core theory basis I’m a happy lad today