Mario vs sonic isn’t close at ALL…

Thz ‪@kingkamcurry‬ for the thumbnail
I got the Mario scaling from ‪@Tempest1018‬ (don’t tell him)
I always get motivated by ‪@TheActualCaptain‬
Tags (ignore)
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[@mexicancj]

This is for people who think Mario is outer (If you don’t think Mario is outer then don’t read this) **Debunking the Extra-Dimensional Expansion Argument** While the Super Mario 64 Nintendo Guide Book does refer to Big Boos as extra-dimensional, this does not inherently imply that the entire Mario cosmology transcends conventional spacetime with multiple dimensions. Here are a few points to consider: **Specific Reference:** The guidebook's designation of Big Boos as extra-dimensional is limited to their ghostly nature and ability to traverse the walls of Big Boo's Haunt. It does not explicitly state that the entire world or other dimensions in Mario are extra-dimensional. **Other Dimensions:** Various Mario games feature worlds or levels that seem disconnected from the main world, such as the Mushroom Kingdom, Koopa Kingdom, or Darklands. However, these dimensions are typically accessed through portals or power-ups, and they do not exhibit the same extra-dimensional characteristics as Big Boo's Haunt. **Contradictory Evidence:** Other guidebooks for Mario games, as well as the in-game dialogue and level design, consistently portray the Mario universe as a three-dimensional world, with no indication of extra dimensions beyond that. For example, the Mario Odyssey Guide Book states that Mario's world is a "3D sandbox" that players can explore freely. **Consistency in Lore:** Throughout the Mario franchise, there is a consistent portrayal of characters, locations, and events that align with a three-dimensional world. From Mario's platforming adventures to the layout of levels and the interactions between characters, there is no substantial evidence to suggest that Mario's world operates beyond the confines of conventional space and time. **Philosophical Considerations:** The idea of extra-dimensional expansion in the Mario universe also raises philosophical questions about the nature of reality within the game. If Mario and his world were truly existing in higher dimensions, how would this impact the actions and interactions of the characters? Would Mario be able to perceive and interact with these extra dimensions, or would they remain hidden from his perspective? **Narrative Coherence:** From a storytelling perspective, the introduction of extra-dimensional expansion in the Mario universe may detract from the overall coherence and consistency of the narrative. By maintaining a clear and concrete understanding of the world in which Mario exists, players are able to better engage with the characters and settings without the distraction of convoluted cosmological theories. **Fan Theories vs. Canon:** While fan theories and interpretations of the Mario universe can be entertaining and thought-provoking, it is important to distinguish between speculative ideas and established canon. Unless there is concrete evidence within the games or official materials to support the notion of extra-dimensional expansion, it is best to approach such theories with a critical eye and a healthy dose of skepticism. cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1209416355560955944/image0.png?ex=66277141&is=6614fc41&hm=4dcf8ebbe837b8b6f7ab8d46e6329fbc0464e085a4aeb26029b711d1d7677249&

[@mexicancj]

Now let me add something, this scan that some use, that bowser warpid orbit "trancends space and time", Its a mistranslation as in the japanese version it doesnt say that. cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1222305621249101875/IMG_20231102_112857.png?ex=662830d1&is=6615bbd1&hm=12830b6bd9503d19420a395369b97e3cafbe82a24954c5c91a6f77a5ee6c01c6& cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1222305621567864983/Captura_de_ecra_2024-03-22_121051.png?ex=662830d1&is=6615bbd1&hm=5d90b530368c13e76609ca6d3ed4ddda60f6c2a0ef388abd49ca6bacfec4b7ea& cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1222305621840498708/Captura_de_ecra_2024-03-22_120638.png?ex=662830d1&is=6615bbd1&hm=380249eac2013ec46a717a28d08393f5cb4a707e791caa3dc0841b6c2e4cacd1&

[@mexicancj]

cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1209416355560955944/image0.png?ex=66277141&is=6614fc41&hm=4dcf8ebbe837b8b6f7ab8d46e6329fbc0464e085a4aeb26029b711d1d7677249&

[@mexicancj]

aminoapps.com/c/join-the-battle/page/blog/debunking-mario-canonicity-by-metal875/27bZ_vMUNurRE7jZRqMbjR3MWKg6BGz5ZJ deathbattlefanon.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000311218 vsbattles.com/threads/so-long-2-b-mario-potentially-big-downgrade-for-spm-feats.131023/ aminoapps.com/c/join-the-battle/page/blog/debunking-higher-dimensional-5d-and-up-mario-dream-depot-niarobis-why-the-dream-depot-is-bigger-than-you-thought/QNwG_K2fXuJKEdQwQbNYlXKXKjm0bxnQZr

[@mexicancj]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2PdhYt7pqZ8iLc kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKrKooZorr53l68si=qAiBToduzZC7WjUm kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3SraXZrZriCgtUsi=mo9uPpY3Jwf8XTf9 kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGa3nouqiK2of68si=TW83FxWZhp5IQ-Kn kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3mkeH2DrNNojbssi=_mDd9PvSj0a7vl5D kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3O4eomjesqhjpYsi=-mUj_J9mleyzkfVw kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXizi4ygacZpaZYsi=3RHuCe_ovhwpho1C kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3zdp3-PoJt3bsUsi=o3R1liEd2TzVMJRK

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

You clearly don’t know what extra-dimensional means and are just going with what you like more Hastly generalization and hitchen razor the afterlife is mentioned multiple times in the Luigi mansion series and the guidebook specifically state that Mario 64 worlds are copies of the main world 🤦 Mf is seriously confusing gameplay for lore 🤦 dear lord ig neither comp sonic gets past 3D even in wario games extra-dimensional portals are cited Existence ≠ ap if sonic is actually higher dimensional then why doesn’t he view all the people he meets as 2D ? Narratively speaking sonic doesn’t get past 3D stop confusing gameplay for lore Prove physically sonic gets above 3D this isn’t canon even a debunk it just “ I don’t like the Mario series so I’m ignoring all the arguments that get it above 3D” Also imagine using geburah and vs battle wiki as a source 💀 Miss translation there miss translation that yet you showed the wrong scan and all these so called debunks got debunked more times that I can count Higher dimensions in Mario are present in Mario 64, galaxy,galaxy 2, wario games, paper Mario color splash, paper Mario sticker star, super Mario rpg, Mario and Luigi dream team, super paper Mario etc.

[@mightyraccoon7155]

Excalibur596 already made a great video on this topic. He didn’t even need to pull feats from Archie Sonic which is a different continuity entirely. It’d be like non-specifying or clarifying Aquaman vs SpongeBob but only pulling from his 1960s cartoon feats.

[@SansINess53]

yes but this dude makes normal sonic look weak, although sonic literally can beat mario

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

@@SansINess53 just like mario literally can beat sonic but i'll admit movie vs movie is prolly sonic no diff

[@TylerOfChaosYT]

No... that video he made was only to debunk death battle, who generally sucks when it comes to research and power scaling.

[@Weebgoku]

Great vid cj! Using Archie was overkill

[@jamesjackson6717]

archie sonic isn't on par with game sonic 💀.

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

archie dosen't even kill mario

[@JEnjoyer]

I was your 200th subscriber, W vid!

[@itzdcx7991]

cool looking thumbnail where you get it?

[@blikthepro972]

the video went from "who would win" to "please stop pinning them against each other"

[@friendlyneighborhoodnoob]

Here are both of their feats (I'm only using their video game appearances, any other form of media doesn't count) Both: - They both can react outside of time itself - They both survived falling from outer space - They both can breath in outer space - They both have fought gods - They both have destroyed giant robots Mario: - He can deflect asteroids - He has an army of mini Marios (who can lift Girders individually and use the same abilities he can) - He has fought Donkey Kong (aka, the guy who punched the moon out of orbit) - He has a collection of both invinsible and destructive power-ups (like the White Tanooki/Cat suit and the Golden Flower) and dozens of cloning power-ups (like the Cherries or the Copy Flower) - He can summon his own stars - He can survive being completely crushed - He lifted King Bomb-Omb and threw him - He can punch so hard that he can duplicate the thing he punches - He has the power of the star spirits - He can firebend - He can grow into a giant at will - He has driven the Star Diver - He has a stopwatch that can control time itself - He was a WW2 soldier - He has a magic hat that can possess anyone it desires - He can turn invisible, control nature, glide, superjump (which he could originally do), detect invisible items, generate ! Blocks, and grant him any power-up he wishes with the Badges - He can manipulate reality with the Wonder Flower - He has knowledge of the entire universe - He has defeated Dreamy Bowser, Culex, Dimentio, Angry Sun, Megabug, Cursa, and the Ruined Dragon - He can control reality with the Wonder Flower/s Sonic: - He can run so fast that he can time travel - He has fought Knuckles - He can destroy metal by spindashing - He can wield the excalibur - He has a variety of different transformations (Hyper Sonic being the strongest) - He has flown across the Solar System as Super Sonic - He has the power of the wisps - He has a shield that deflects all elements - He can clone himself, breath underwater (he technically becomes the water, which will take away his physical form underwater), control time, detect invisible things, control nature, and turn into a fireball with the Chaos Emeralds - He can boost, which increases his insanely broken speed - He has defeated Time Eater, Dark Gaia, Infinite, and Mephiles - He can generate energy blasts from his fists It depends on how the situation plays out (whether Capy is with Mario or not, if the Chaos Emeralds have already turned into Super Emeralds or not, or what badges Mario has equipped at the time) Either way, they wouldn't actually fight but rather become friends, but it would be a fun fight to see

[@friendlyneighborhoodnoob]

I'm not saying that Mario could beat Sonic in a fight (and if he could, then it would be a REALLY close fight), I'm just saying that Mario could totally take on Sonic

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

@@friendlyneighborhoodnoob sonic could take on mario not saying he could beat him

[@inspektorblacket2356]

I’m here for the comment section 😊

[@RaccoonThunderMario_Official]

Better get your popcorn ready cause this’ll be interesting to say the least🍿

[@BootyTickleingBandit]

I don't think Sonic fans know that Mario is absolutely used to fighting and reacting at super sonic speeds

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

true

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

culex one example

[@TheManBehindTheTaco]

And So?Sonic can just spindash on Mario and Mario dies,it's not like Mario is a robot or something,even when he spindashes on robots they get destroyed :/

[@RaccoonThunderMario_Official]

Not even 20 seconds into the video and already you exposed your own bias. So you say that when you go watch Mario vs Sonic videos on KZbin you say that you see bias coming from both sides of the fans and show three comments in your video showing this. Comment 1: These Sonic fanboys be writing essays in the comments and can't accept someone's opinion. Comment 2: Fax Mario solos Sonic+verse in base form. Sonic fanboys can cry out loud. Comment 3: Bro Mario is getting stronger and stronger to the point that this is not a debate it is a slaughter. However, what you fail to realize is that you only show this happening on Mario's side and not Sonic's. What do I mean by this? Well, let's dissect each comment. Comment 1: This comment criticizes Sonic fans for their responses and suggests they can't accept differing opinions. It could indeed be from a Mario fan who is frustrated with the reactions of Sonic fans but could also just be someone who isn't a fan of how Sonic fans highball Sonic. (Trust me this at most could either be a neutral comment or a Mario Fanboy comment I see no hint of this being written by a Sonic Fanboy). Mind you it's only going to get more apparent going forward. Comment 2: This comment confidently asserts Mario's superiority over Sonic and dismisses Sonic fanboys. The strong language and assertion of Mario's dominance suggest it's more likely from a Mario fanboy. Comment 3: Similar to Comment 2, this comment also declares Mario's dominance and uses strong language to dismiss any debate. It's more likely from a Mario fanboy as well. As you can see, you basically just lied to your audience about showing proof of there being bias on both sides when really all you did was show the bias on Mario's side. And before any of you say I'm being biased myself because I'm clearly a Mario fan. I for the most part could see where Tempest was coming from with their video and besides them not bringing up Mario Kun when they decided to talk about Archie Sonic there was nothing else that made it so blatantly obvious they were being biased (not saying they were being bias). I may be more biased towards Mario but I'm not against the idea of Sonic beating Mario in a fight. I'll hear out what they have to say but if I see something that makes it apparent one side is being favored more than the other. I'm going to bring it up. There's more I can say about this video but I'll leave it at that for now.

[@mexicancj]

Yeah I edited that part of the video at like 2 at night, so mb if I forgot to include some sonic fanboy comments

[@mexicancj]

And I didn’t feel like getting like 2-3 more comments about the Sonic side, so I apologize for the confusion

[@RaccoonThunderMario_Official]

@@mexicancj So let me get this straight you were too lazy to show comments of Sonic fans being biased (which shouldn't take very long at all mind you) yet you take the time to write a whole string of comments trying to debunk Mario from being Outerversal (not to mention what you gave would take a decent amount of time to find all that)? I'm sorry but you actively admitting to being lazy only further solidifies my belief that you're biased. If you were too lazy to want to add biased Sonic fans comments then you shouldn't have even kept that in your script. Not to mention you try and use what's widely considered to be "Sonic's strongest version of himself" Archie Sonic and also bring up Sonic X (which isn't canon to the games either) and then claim you're only using Game Sonic in this I find rather funny that you don't bring up either Paper Mario or the non-canon Mario Kun as well to make it fair (I know you said you didn't want to talk about Paper Mario because you didn't want to go into too much detail about Mario so that it didn't take up too much of the video but I have a problem with that because you're choosing to ignore a lot of strong feats for Mario which weakens your take on him even more.) I mean with the amount of time you gave on Mario's side you only talk about his mainline entry games while with Sonic you talk about things outside of his mainline games in that same amount of time. I'm sorry but I have to be honest here this video is biased there's no way you can deny it.

[@Deadchannel371]

@@RaccoonThunderMario_Officialpreach

[@BowserEditz]

Ironically i think all three comments come from my video

[@jamesjackson6717]

Drop your cord rn, this is s tier dogshit.

[@mino000]

somebody smell like shit 🤢

[@cringemariobros2516]

Fr

[@TripleMonke67]

Yall i think he might be mad

[@cringemariobros2516]

@@TripleMonke67 not really he has a point the entire video and in the comic section he just tries to downplay Mario so sonic wins, even though I can debunk it pretty easily since he puts really bad points down does really make sense. Mario has more abilities, more strength, more intelligence pretty much everything.

[@TripleMonke67]

@@cringemariobros2516 ight i agree

[@chaoticmeep]

Nice video I recon Game Sonic can high diff or tie with Game Mario.

[@whyareyouviewingthis]

hard to believe that a fat plumber and a mutated hedgehog spawned a cavalcade of esoteric nonsense. if only y'all paid this much attention in school, you could've been doctors.

[@jschannel6319]

Probably should’ve just capped it to Classic Sonic. Then it would have been slightly more fair. Also could’ve allowed Paper Mario scaling since you used Archie scaling for Sonic. Not that it’d really change the outcome; just saying.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

Classic Mario >>>> Classic sonic Paper Mario >>>>>>> Archie Sonic

[@jschannel6319]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 whatever you say

[@jjblack175]

​@jschannel6319 I mean you could say classic mario could beat sonic but hey people have opinions

[@SansINess53]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 not really, sonic beats both if you consider the feats and the fact sonic is faster than both in all states.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@SansINess53 oh yeah speed the most useless wincon especially since when both have immeasurable speed Sonic isn’t touching neither of the two Mario

[@SansINess53]

canonically both would be pals or partners at best, to take out the bad. if we add japanese shit then sonic is the most polite being and mario is a dude and if we add amercian stuff then sonic is rude asf and mario is still a dude

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

Mario is infinitely more polite than sonic will ever be

[@mino000]

@@mynameisntimportant1374why i like sonic more he just does his own thing but hes not an asshole i hate the american interpretation of sonic makes him a snarky asshole that says dad jokes sonic is someone whos free and lives by his own will and moral code and cares for others

[@AquaNeptun3]

@@mino000Mario isn’t an asshole either

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@mino000 I never said sonic is a jerk just that Mario is much more polite than him

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 fax

[@StarboundRose]

In the list of power ups, you gave Mario, you included the 1-up mushroom and the 3-up moon, does this mean he can just reappear a couple times?

[@mexicancj]

Forgot to exclude those 😂

[@imthecoolest3884]

​@@mexicancjso you also blatantly ignored Mario's hax and exclude them lmao

[@_BLURmm]

Why am i one of the people on the biased sides meanwhile what i was trying to say is respect each other’s opinion my bad if it looked like i was biased towards mario because I said sonic fanboys but same goes for Mario fans and Mario and sonic tie for me personally (no hate to you btw)

[@N1njax]

W pluh 🤑

[@_BLURmm]

@@N1njax 🤯

[@mikeymod6326]

if this mf hadn't used Archie then Mario would've clapped

[@cringemariobros2516]

You trying to debunk Mario is funny you didn’t even do it correctly and Mario has that get him back up there and beyond

[@Wracka69]

I can get Sonic to low outer in base form with the null space feat

[@Deadchannel371]

Actually it be a good one, but then he brought up Archie. 😅oh well some one will do it right eventually

[@CERISTHEDEV]

Dude even pulled out the comics for sonic but did not get mario stats based on the rpgs Also if it were mario & luigi Vs Sonic & tails Insta win for the plumbers

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

fr

[@skelswap]

sonic wins very very easily

[@Electricswitchalt]

Game Sonic > Archie lmao, he has more feats and better cosmology

[@jamesjackson6717]

W

[@JaytonParksthekingofgamez]

Tbh Like I never get it that What if The comics wasn't non cannon then that make sonic op 💀

[@Fnaflover999max]

bro never read the comics... bro would eat his words after picking up a page or two

[@Electricswitchalt]

@@Fnaflover999max Archie comics got debunked like a million times

[@Fnaflover999max]

@@Electricswitchalt I'm sorry but... no.. not even close.. Arichi Sonic (base) solos the whole sonic-verse. its not even close

[@SansINess53]

archie is too good for any mario to handle, hell mario and paper mario can't take him on together, (both are in relative level because of their cross over I think) but current sonic beats current mario. mostly in extreme/hard diff. listen literally, if we take gameplay mario against gameplay sonic as well then mario is fucked since when he jumps he doesn't become a hitbox, yes he has a bag full of items to use but sonic can literally just dodge since he is just faster so gameplay sonic wins mid diff due to the fact he becomes a literal hitbox if he jumps or rolls, and gameplay mario would be slowly getting drained by sonic.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

Current Mario no diffs current sonic And base paper Mario from spm slams comp Archie Sonic negative diff Gameplay wise sonic can’t survive the same amount of hits Mario can

[@SansINess53]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 you really don't listen but hey I guess you don't want proof, even if I bring evidence you will only think like a monkey about mario fucks sonic.

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 true

[@foxicrayoutube6008]

The worst video ever, bro you didin't show scan, and you talk like you alrealy knows mario ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️

[@AnimeSonic717]

Watch out some people are gonna try for debunk you just be ready

[@jamesjackson6717]

He's already getting debunked.

[@redhood2574]

I thought the Archie sonic was not canon into the games I could be wrong

[@pkmntrainersonicx5382]

Es canónico pero de una forma muy diferente. Quaso 🥐

[@redhood2574]

@@pkmntrainersonicx5382 pensè Que no era canon

[@Necroman-mi9oc]

​@pkmntrainersonicx5382 No es canon ni de broma Sus historias son muy diferentes al canon principal Esta junto al sonic del universo paramount son incanonizables Dicho por ian flynn y takashi izuka sus historias distan demasiado dwl lore principal Los mobians/overlanders no existen en los juegos asi como wacholwski

[@Necroman-mi9oc]

​@@redhood2574 No no es canon

[@jamesjackson6717]

All the hax you mentioned sonic has, mario has that too and can even resist them. Funny how you're too scared to bring up paper mario, mario kun etc who are apart of game mario contiunity.

[@mexicancj]

Buddy I even said in the video myself “I could go deeper into Mario’s scaling” implying that I can talk about paper mario, mario kun, etc but like I said, just so it doesn’t take up 1/4 of the video, I left it out,

[@mexicancj]

The mario in this video I was taking about was just game mario

[@mexicancj]

AND I WAS ALSO USING GAME SONIC FOR HIS AP SINCE I SAID SONIC COULD GET TO OUTER AS WELL

[@mexicancj]

I only brought up Archie sonic if you don’t believe in the outer scaling or if someone thinks that the Archie sonic and game Sonic cosmology are the same

[@Deadchannel371]

@@mexicancjthen why even bring up Archie then, it seemed bias my guy

[@apex2000]

Talking games alone, probably Mario, if including all media Sonic.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

All media wise only sonic who wins is smt sonic

[@Deadchannel371]

Oooh if we do all media Mario is stomping him

[@jamesjackson6717]

​@@Deadchannel371fr, smt sonic is getting stomped by comp Mario's basic hax 💀

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

@@jamesjackson6717 fr

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 all media is def mario

[@AverageViewer972]

God i hate this controversy nobody can agree it'd be a tie and sonic wouldn't one shot because mario still has nice endurance and cartoon physics (yes cartoon physics iz a power cuz they actually strong af) it'd literally be a tie between them they are matched and if they were to fight it'd be either a little game between friends or they wouldn't fight at all.

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

exactly

[@inspektorblacket2356]

They are both cartoon characters, so it really doesn’t mean much. Sonic’s design alone acknowledges this due to the fact his design was referenced from Felix the cat, atom boy, Mickey Mouse,etc. So to say Mario is the only one with the toon force, seems like over seeing what’s right in front of you. Now you may say, Sonic universe is more realistic, no it not mate. The world of Mobious may have similarities to our own, it’s really not. I don’t talking animals… man I’m getting carried away this. My main point, Sonic and Mario are practically identical in how toony they are, it’s kind of a poor augmented to bring up in this situation.

[@JosiahTheStickGuy]

I find it bizarre how you had a debunk for me planned when you mainly used Archie feats for Sonic, used someone else’s outdated debunks in your pinned comment, and barely (or just straight up not even) defend counter arguments to your points in the comments. I could say a lot more, including the bias in a lot of areas in the video, but a lot of people have already called your video out and haven’t gotten properly responded to by you yet. I’m not gonna act like there wasn’t work and research put into this, but there’s a lot of things I can’t get by with this… (And I do recall you being the person who got upset about my Mario vs Steve short and tagged me and Tyrecordslol in your short that was very clearly made to bait Mario scalers)

[@TylerOfChaosYT]

Fr, idk why Sonic fans are such cowards these days

[@Tomsupreme2022]

it still wouldn't matter as sonic stills beats mario no matter how you put it

[@TylerOfChaosYT]

@@Tomsupreme2022 gets*

[@brenscott5416]

Fairly accurate mario vs sonic. The thing is marios universe uses a lot of magic to have things be possible, sonic's is far far less based on magic which makes him fucking terrifyingly poweful. Mario uses magic and powerups to fight bowser and his machines, sonic uses pure speed and insane strength to body highly durable machines and mystic beings. Do you know whats really scary tho? Shadow is even more powerful somehow. Guy matches sonic and is still wearing inhibitors

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

Never though I heard a more wrong comment but here we are Sonic is litteraly so much stronger than shadow their gap can’t be measured and canonically speaking sonic always needs boost to defeat his enemies while Mario except for bowser fury always defeated his enemies in base

[@brenscott5416]

@mynameisntimportant1374 first, where was sonic "proven" so much stronger than shadow? I've engaged in as much sonic content as I can get my hands on and it's never been shown to me so please do tell me what the fuck you're on about. Second the scale of things and the world's they are in are not equal at all, mario uses magic to fight a magic turtle but also not really because he always has to use bowser against himself, sonic just straight up has to fight shit on his own and his final fights are hundreds of times more difficult (in universe) that most of his adventure given the power difference. Perfect chaos for example is a fuck of a lot more powerful than chaos 6, and dark Gaia would sort of eat the fucking earth if he could and was so much bigger than sonic that even the gaia temples put together were tiny next to dark Gaia, mario final bosses are not that much higher scale than most of the adventure, sonic final bosses are Gods, all powerful masters of their worlds, or entities that threaten worlds. Bowser is none of those things and would get slammed by perfect chaos, a sonic foe is ranks fairly low in power next to much of the bosses in the series. Mario isn't winning shit

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@brenscott5416 feats and inverse lmao and shadow admiting he isn’t on par with sonic or him tieing with silver who fears sonic Totally the contrary Mario fighting bowser with power ups is a game mechanic, sonic power are lore canon and Mario has faced much stronger enemies Planetary? Damn even the weakest Mario enemies in the classic era was solar system also size is useless and Mario has slain multiple giants in base without trying while sonic needed super Mario is curbstomping this mismatch

[@brenscott5416]

@mynameisntimportant1374 never seen sonic pull feats such as teleporting the black comet, shadow is powerful enough that with 2 inhibitor rings off the simple act of moving was enough to kill mephils clones in sonic 06. Sonic himself just isn't capable of that and that was only half of his inhibitor rings off. The reality is that show himself doesn't know how powerful he is since the removal of his inhibitor rings is potentially dangerous to him and others as it keeps his power in a much more neutral state. On the "mario beating stronger enemies fight" who? Who is stronger than perfect chaos or dark Gaia? Two foes who aren't even the strongest sonic has taken down in the games alone

[@jamesjackson6717]

​@@brenscott5416dimentoo slams both. Dimentio in his super dimentio state, can destroy world of forms, which are part of the worlds, he can destroy and they can distort the cosmology. Perfect chaos ain't even beating base bowser jr.

[@spincycle6724]

Cj well done unbiased and actually looked into it

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

Sarcasm ?

[@chaoticmeep]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 you’re coping that your favourite fiction character loses

[@spincycle6724]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 up to interpretation bud

[@Electricswitchalt]

“Unbiased” 🤔🤔

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@chaoticmeep I’m not but it’s not like you can debate it either

[@Electricswitchalt]

Game Mario low or mid diffs game sonic and no diffs Archie, Archie isn’t passing complex multi lol

[@kalebwebb6924]

The archie comics are not canon to the games

[@Axoldrew]

Doesn't matter mario solos both game and archie sonic

[@SansINess53]

@@Axoldrew not really sonic solos mario.

[@DOYOUGOTGAMEONYOURPHONE]

that don’t matter super sonic is supposed to have infinite strength when Mario’s star power up only makes him vulnerable meaning pushing back blows and let’s not and let’s not forget Sonic ripped the wings of a angel in smash

[@josephyisrael6219]

Fax

[@SansINess53]

@@DOYOUGOTGAMEONYOURPHONE if we are considering sonic's feat outside of crossovers, frontiers sonic is stronk.

[@jjblack175]

Using the strongest non canon sonic but not use the strongest mario is crazy lol

[@LilyReal]

even just using the Solaris scaling from Sonic 06 it's still an ez sweep.

[@Deadchannel371]

@@LilyRealnah the strongest Mario fought his creator of story. Mario kills Sonic

[@SansINess53]

@@Deadchannel371 mario can't kill sonic, literally sonic is too fast for mario to aim and fight him, yes mario reacted to light speed enemies but sonic in base currently is faster than light.

[@SansINess53]

@@Deadchannel371 sonic in sonic generations literally speeds through time to save the day making him too fast for mario and don't forget classic sonic does the same shit. which makes classic mario look weak asf (mario 1-super mario 64)

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@SansINess53 Classic Mario casually surfed through time and to the real world and moved in places without space or time + sonic speed is useless if he can’t hurt Mario

[@SirnoBassFishing]

i'd win

[@SansINess53]

base sonic frontiers basically solos any sonic before super form before unleashed.

[@CMN9486]

Sonic slams but you got to the conclusion wrong.

[@user-ky2rq1vy6o]

Stopping kids from saying first

[@AnarchoTak]

people severely underestimate game sonic. even he is busted. and people like often use Mario stuff from the Mario shows and other non canon things but then turn around and say we can't use Archie sonic. I think Mario is incredibly powerful but I think he can't keep up with sonic speed. I think sonic would beat him

[@Axoldrew]

Base mario slams mid diff

[@chaoticmeep]

@@Axoldrewit would probably be high diff or sonic wins

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

Oh yeah let me ask you something how is sonic going to hurt Mario ? Beside except people who uses paper Mario, Mario has always used canon stuff to be scaled

[@Deadchannel371]

Nah we use canon stuff, but then Sonic fans say that isn’t canon or just call it weak. Like what else do yall need 😅

[@chaoticmeep]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 Don’t listen to anyone who says Archie is canon. The material used to scale game sonic are the games, IDW comics, Prime & Sonic Channel. That’s it

[@KenanVonKaiser]

Mario Wins Easily Like Infinite Invinciblilty Items That Guarantees One Shot, Consistant Time Manipulation Mario Solos Both Sonics Easy!

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

exactly if anythin g mario one shots sonic

[@SuperCyberEditz]

I've heard ppl bring up how the golden flower was able to one shot bowser and other enemies which is honestly hilarious to me bc it's a game mechanic, if you don't believe then we can bring super sonic's game mechanics into this aswell 😂 he's able to one shot any enemy other than bosses by just touching them 💀 (why can sonic not one shot bosses like golden mario could? Bc that would reduce the challenge of even having a boss to nothing and sega ain't gon make the same mistake nintendo did bc having smth that one shots a boss removes the diffuculty altogether)

[@nicolethomas7168]

Mario is nowhere near 6D

[@BLACKCRAB_edits]

great vid am a big fan of both but I got to say some of the things you did get right for both sides Sonic with invulenrability is non-canon as you shown, and from the reaseach I did for this most of sonic haxs and abiilites are from other continuities, like sonic having wish manipulation is in the movie as super sonic, or sonic being a immortalty is from the arch, only hax you can 100% give sonic is the the chaos energy in him that sonic has in him, we seen that in most of the games now to mario you said tick tock clock is a place with no time at but thats that, a realm where time don't go at and for that you can't say mario would be maybe as fast as sonic in foot because he can only move at it not be as fast as it. Now to the debate category STRENGTH = Mario, Mario lifts and punts Larry's castle with zero effort whatsoever that weigh 61 million tons. Beated dreamy bowser, who with the power embedded of infinite universes and for thos saying its only 100,000 well it not only said it had more but the dream stone said it was infinite. Lifting/Throwing Picks up and throws King Bob-Omb who weighs 34.2 tons. Pulling Drags a giant, painted, golden Chain Chomp by the chain. The chain chomp weigh (66 millions tons), mario damaged bowser galaxy reactor which threatened the mortal realm of the mario universe and due to cosmology, it makes this feat outerversal. SPEED = Sonic, No need to say why, but mario can catch up to him DURABILITY = Mario, Gets shunted forwards after being rammed into by a tank an impact force of about 1018750000kgm/s^2 p. Got flung into space at the speed of 28,437 kilometres per sec and took no damage from it. Tanked getting hit 13 kingdoms away in the sky and got right back up. Is launched out of a cannon with enough force to break part of a wall with the force 3.02 Newtons. And can tank being near the sun as we know the sun is about 27 million degrees Fahrenheit but also he tanked an attack that could end the entire mario cosmology, he also survived the end of the universe. IQ = Mario, was is a part-time doctor. Built a Time Machine all on his own. Is omniscient with the string theory item, and the CEO of a highly successful toy company BATTLE IQ = Sonic, out smart eggman who has a IQ of 300. Plans his moves before going into battles HAX = Mario, he has reality manipulation, firs manipulation, toon force and more, his power-ups are also hax and we know how much power-ups mario has. ABILITIES = Mario, his power-ups count as abilities, fire flower, ice flower, superstar mario, rainbow star, propeller suit, acorn suit, raccoon suit, tanooki suit, gold mario, metal cap, invisibility cap, wing cap, cat suit, double cherry, rock mushroom, cloud flower, spring mushroom, boomerang flower, balloon mario, white tanooki, golden raccoon suit, p-acorn. (also in the rpgs he has all of these things on him at all times) AP + DC = Mario, AP: he beat culex who threatened the mortal realm in one of the mario rpg games and due to cosmology again, it makes this feat outerversal DC: hes a star child COMBAT = Mario, He has a lot of combat in the rpgs and he is a martial artist FORMS/WEAPONS/GADGETS = Mario, his rpg items and his power ups pretty much self explain also he has all of these things on him at all times POWER = Mario, he is a starchild, a starchild means that you were born with special powers, and mario was born with a great amount of strength, he has the power to take over the universe if he wanted to but he wouldn't. STAMINA = Mario, Can perform various activities and travel to multiple regions and entire galaxies with no signs of exhaustion, or need for rest, also he ween sonic push to his limits but mario has not AGILITY/FLEXIBILITY/REFLEXES = Sonic, Homing Attack, Light Speed Dash and his spindash SKILLS = Both, self explanatory. ENDURANCE = Mario, Is rammed into by Bowser's top hat, sending him flying into the distance and falling to Cap Kingdom. (Cappy is floating above the Cap Kingdom as Bowser leaves, to give a sense as to where it is). He's knocked out for an unknown amount of time, but jumps up upon awakening. Sent flying off of a volcano EXPERIENCE = Mario, not only older but been fighting bowser when he was a baby COSMOLOGY/TIER = Mario, Mario Cosmology explained According to the Official Super Mario Nintendo Guide Book, Mario’s Cosmology has Extra-Dimensions. Boos are referred to as Extra-Dimensional, This Means Mario’s Cosmology Functions beyond the conventional Spacetime where there are 4D dimensions. This means a 5th higher Dimensions exist in Mario, The Cutout in Paper Mario Color Splash is beyond time and space ao it's 6D The afterlife in Mario Is a higher plane of existence meaning it's above the Cutout 7D. The string theory exists in Mario it was shown in Wario master of Disguise and Super Paper Mario In the sky This makes the mario world 11D Adding to the afterlife and Cutout 13D. The dream depot is Infinite dimensional because everytime someone dreams in Mario it creates a Universe thats stored in the dream depot. In the dream world You can dream in the dream world meaning those dreams stack and Transcend each other. Paint in Mario makes everything sentintint so meaning any object can dream are you starting to see how broken this is. And the Dream Depot Existed since the beginning of time so this means. The dream depot is Infinite dimensional. Making the Cutout Low Outerversal and the Afterlife Outerversal. Moving on to Transcendent relms or beyond dimensionality aka Outerversal. Flipside flopside is dimensionless Meaning it's low outerveral Platonic concepts are Outerversal. And they exist in Mario it was mentioned in marios time machine and mario party 5. The first time it was mentioned in marios time machine Plato's book exist in Mario and is referred to as the truth by Ariatotle who in real life was the only person to object to Plato's Theory of Forms introduced in The Republic. There are analogies that bear resemblances to those in said book, In the end, if The Republic is actually legitimate in Mario, it would mean the Intelligible World with all Universal concepts exists, and thus aspatial and atemporal Forms also exist And another time in Mario party 5 mini game with plato republic astrology symbols. Another outerversal relm is Matter Splatter Galaxy which is called a super dimension in the Japanese version Super/ Hyper Dimensionality is a state where you’re beyond the concepts of dimensions outerversal DEXTEITY = Sonic, self explanatory. (most of it are in sonic colors, sonic Forces , and 100% at Sonic Lost World VERSTILITY = Both, They both have all different qualities like for mario and luigi superstar saga and sonic unleashed OFFENSE/DEFENSE = Both, both have there offense and defense in there games FEATS/SCALING = Both, self explanatory. WINNER🏆 = Mario Mid diff (I don't want to be bias I love both I even for more sonic items in my house then mario but overrall fight I do think mario beat sonic, also am not saying it would be hard for sonic to beat mario if he had prep or in the right circumstance then yes he can beat him)

[@BLACKCRAB_edits]

also let me just say this rn before I get hate Arch sonic and hyper solo mario its not even a fight, if you ask me the only one mario beats is super (fight me on that), classic, right now, and movie, also because you use arch sonic I would add paper mario due to them being the same mario nice vid no hate just wanted to put this out there!

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@BLACKCRAB_editsbase Mario >>> hyper fodder negative diff Poa Mario >>> Archie sonic low diff Base paper Mario >>>> Archie Sonic negative diff

[@chaoticmeep]

It’s probably high diff

[@jamesjackson6717]

Sonic does have invulnerability in his super state as stated in sonic forces mobile, but mario counters invulnerability 24/7. Sonic can wish stuff from sonic and the secret rings, but sonic doesn't have absolute wish manipulation, so therefore he can't use that to mess up mario. Mario takes battle iq, he beated Jinx who is a martial arts master and the master from paper mario, who knows kickboxing and karate. Mario in super mario gaiden, beaten an army of soldiers. Mario outsmarted bowser who has 9800 iq, but I think it's hyperbolic a bit. Both take speed, sonic has immeasurable speed, so does mario. Mario is more skilled than sonic since he has many dexterity and trains more efficiently than sonic.

[@BLACKCRAB_edits]

@@jamesjackson6717 BIQ would be a tie as we seen more of it for sonic then mario

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

number one mario is outerversal and for some god forsaken reason you said that sonic who dosen't have too much hax or ressistances after i did research vs mario who has almost every manipulation and resstance and toon physics yes it is a actual hax abiliy and sonic outdoes that no friend ok NICE THUMBNAIL BTW MAN

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

you can easily get mario to outer with this alone

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

first Layers of the Mario Cosmology explained The lowsest level of the Cosmology is the Omniverse The moral realm/ Omniverse( which is what the Galaxy reactor threatened) contains infinite Universes infite Timelines the Dream Depot the string theory Platonism Extra Dimensional Dimensions flipside flopside MWI And a Superspace Overall Outerversal Star sprites realm is the next layer into the Cosmology This is Things that are said to be beyond space beyond time Dimesnions or both Basically anything High Outerversal The star sprites are above the Omniverse Woah zone is beyond space The Cutout is beyond Spacetime and Dimensions And bowsers Warped Orbit is beyond spacetime So overall the star spirits realm is High Outerversal Above that is the after life If the afterlife is a higher plane of existence even higher than being beyond spacetime The afterlife realm Contains The overthere The Underwhere And Shangi Spa's So overall that afterlife realm is boundless The next layer is the Meta Fictional realm This is where Manga Kamen resides And it is the creator of the Omniverse, Beyond the Omniverse realm and the Afterlife realm Making it 2 layes beyond Boundless The Tribe of Ancients trancededed into a Higher plane of existence meaning it's above the Meta Fictional realm they trancededed so high They're not even seen in the afterlife Meaning they're not bounded by the laws of afterlife They also built the Pure hearts a form in the Manga that makes Mario stronger than thw Manga author menaining the Tribe of ancients power Excels the author meaning they Should have Is transcended higher than meta fictional world Making it 3 Layers beyond Boundless Is the final layer is the player realm The player realm Is beyond the meta fictional realm Where the player resides the player is the one who created the cosmology itself He can Control all the characters and exist in a higher plane of his existence overall The Player realm is 4 Layers beyond Boundless

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

if your wondering for any of this i'll break it down CSAP AND OTHER WIKIS NOT VS BATTLES consider platosim scales to outerversal and the person who made this in mario's time machine also studied on the topic i believe the omniverse is ifnite dimensional considered several times in SPM and his wiki ok mario and paper mario are the exact same being ok the omniverse also contains ifnite areas and other dimensional realms and cosomologies like rabbids and miis dk are also in the cosomology and wii party shows that mario's planets are giant and only small due to gameplay purposes mario also has dream depot a hyperversal space zone that contains extra dimensions and multiverses and mysterious other lifes said in mario and luigi dream team mario's body was so durable when queen jaydes who's in control of the moral realm the land of living's life struck mario only to say somehow he was alive the afterlife realm actually contains the underwhere and the overthere and shengai's spas this realm is boundless we'll get to why soon there is a metaphysical heaven and hell that exists within mario the sapce-time in mario also consists of jugian archetype :innate patterns of thought and behavior that strive for realization within an individual's environment.:this exists t=within mario mario also could have transfinite mathematics like sonic according to e.gadd in luigi mansion 2 something about finite numbers mario also has astral plane and woah zone timeless voids parrel universes in a universe or extradimensional shown in 64 and 64 ds which is a separate adventure mario also traveled to a parrelel universe within mario 3dworld said to a mystroius world and worlds shown in SPM AND TTYD are universes in mario were getting there mario at this point has well more than 50 dimensions string theory exists in mario shown by SPM AND warios games the tv in mario also can take you to a parrelel world and wario is part of mario's cosomology there is endless and ifinte possibilities in mario shown in SPM the cutout literally transcend space-time and spastial tinking is in mario and there refered to as concepts culex lives in a hyper dimensional plane and culex is the master of space-time etc etc etc

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

mario maker realm is also shown as a power-up and the player is in control of life and death

[@user-ko8kv1dh4u]

marios hax and abilities: Superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes and durability, Enhanced Unarmed Combat, Dimensional Storage, Pyrokinesis, Minor Electrokinesis and Aerokinesis, Energy Manipulation, Danger Sensing (His nose can apparently smell trouble), Limited Physics Manipulation (His jumps' physics are impossible for Isaac Newton to understand), Longevity (In the Super Mario Galaxy games, Mario has witnessed two Star Festivals, which take place once every 100 years. Comparable to Peach and Bowser, who would live on for 10,000 more years after Bowser created his own universe), Shapeshifting (Has transformed into others before), Flight (Achieved flight once), Plot Manipulation (Broke manga panels with his presence), Telekinesis (Can change the direction of Megavitamins mid-flight), Plant Growth Acceleration (Has invented a specific Megavitamin to accelerate plant growth), Resistance to Gravity Manipulation (Can walk perfectly fine on hundreds of different sized planets in different galaxies across different universes and can even walk near black holes), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Immune to Hawking Radiation), Resistance to Petrification (Can break free from being turned to stone), Resistance to Existence Erasure (Unaffected by Bowser's wish on the Dream Stone to make him vanish from existence), Resistance to Plot Manipulation (After Bowser beat the manga kamen and changed the script, the kamen said Mario would win anyways because he always wins. Sure enough, Mario won), Resistance to Concept Destruction (The Void would erase all concepts, and Mario is completely unaffected by The Void's powers. Why would The Void erase all concepts? With the power of paint, Red could talk telepathically to Mario and Huey by coloring their thoughts. This would mean that paint not only gives life to beings and such, but it is also what embodies and creates thoughts; concepts are defined as thoughts and ideas, so if The Void can erase all existence, including all the paint and Paint Stars, then it's erasing all concepts as well. If you count the 1-A rating below, it can also erase all Universals, which Mario would also resist), Resistance to Meta Wish Granting (Survived Bowser's wish on the Star Rod to destroy him), Resistance to Matter Manipulation (Atomic; can be stripped down to clumps of pixels and then reform completely unharmed), Resistance to Evolution Manipulation (When shot by Bowser's Devolution Gun in Kun, he resisted it, and instead of devolving to a monkey like Luigi did, he gained his Tanooki Mario power-up), Resistance to Fate Manipulation (The Light Prognosticus foretold that the four Heroes of Light would gather together and use the Pure Hearts to defeat The Dark One. The Dark Prognosticus foretold that the hero of prophecy and all others would be stopped by the Green One joining The Dark One, cementing the end of all worlds. These imbalances messed with the wheels of destiny. Everything they wrote became truth; it was fate itself bringing about the actions. But at the end, breaking the Light Prognosticus, Luigi joined Dimentio--The Dark One--and began down the path that the Dark Prognosticus created. The Heroes of Light, however, break the Dark Prognosticus and win anyways. Tippi describes this entire phenomena as "fate," rather cementing the fact that the two Prognosticuses played with fate itself. And in the end, the Heroes of Light and The Dark One all broke both Prognosticuses, giving them a resistance to fate manipulation), Enhanced Swordsmanship (Is greatly skilled in swordplay and fencing), Enhanced Marksmanship (Has held real guns before and has pulled off impressive feats with them), 4th Wall Awareness (Displayed both in-games and in Super Mario-Kun), Resurrection (Resurrection as Undead; it took awhile, but in Super Mario-Kun, Mario was killed, traversed through hell, and came back to life), Pain Affinity (Evidenced here), Regeneration (High-Mid; survived being blown to pieces like a balloon), Duplication (Can sacrifice extra lives for a clone of himself), Resistance to Primordial Force Manipulation (The Player can't affect him at all), Resistance to Universal Manipulation (Can break free from The Player's grip, which reigns over everything else in the game), Proficiency w/ Hammers, Soul Destruction and Mutilation (Has greatly damaged Boos and other ghosts, and has even destroyed Cackletta's Soul), Dimensional Manipulation, Space and Time Manipulation/Time Travel, and Brotherly Telepathy w/ Luigi. Music Manipulation (Anyone who had possession of or was in the same vicinity of a Music Key had the power of music transmitted into their souls, and can tap into its power for a variety of abilities as long as they're skilled enough, including all of the following powers after this one), Mind Control (Waluigi was going to use it to hypnotize anyone who didn't have the same dancing abilities as him), Chaos Inducement (The Music Keys could rain chaos and discord down, destroying everything and everyone), Broadway Force (The second Mario started dancing, things like snowmen, fire itself, plates, and flaming wooden logs started dancing with him), Pyrokinesis (Mario and Luigi's dancing styles are "hot," and can melt things like giant Freezies by generating and shooting fire pretty easily), Telekinesis (Could sail a boat across a river), Summoning (Summoned a rocket from nowhere to attack Bowser), Statistics Amplification (Using the power of dancing, he could increase his speed to catch up to a roller-coaster), Explosion Manipulation (Caused Koopas to explode into music notes), Power Nullification (The Dance Meter essentially decides whose abilities are more effective, and the abilities of the losing dancer are entirely nullified), Matter Manipulation (Molecular; Changed the makeup of a hotel from being a normal building to being a corkscrew, then changed it back), Size Manipulation (Caused a mushroom to spontaneously grow out of the ground), Weather Manipulation (Things like twisters, avalanches, snowstorms and whirlpools were caused by the Keys, as evidenced here), Empathic Manipulation (Forced Bowser to feel happiness. Dancing caused Boos to warm up to Mario), Healing (Bowser was going to use the Keys to fix his tone deafness), Death Inducement (Bowser's use of the Keys turned the landscape into this...), Life Inducement (Before Mario turned it back into this. To put into perspective of how impressive this is, Bowser blocked out the Sun with thick clouds, turned water into lava, killed all plant life, turned hills into volcanoes, etc. Mario changed it all back), and Soul Manipulation

[@Future_Cat23]

Bro used the Archie comics like their canon to the games 😂😂😂😂 then Mario gets Mario kun who has boundless feats

[@chaoticmeep]

You don’t even know what the fuck boundless means. Mario Kun isn’t on the same tier as Boundless characters

[@Deadchannel371]

@@chaoticmeepwhy you lying

[@chaoticmeep]

@@Deadchannel371 Mario Kun isn’t on the same fucking tier as Azaloth, give me one boundless feat he’s done

[@jamesjackson6717]

​@@chaoticmeepMario transcends his verse which is high outerversal without ratting.

[@Deadchannel371]

@@chaoticmeep we bringing another character in this fight? You doing too much, but back to Mario kun. Bowser has defeated Manga Kamen who basically controls the manga and Mario still defeated the bowser who did that. Mario is OP

[@ajworksatmcdonalds2896]

Y'all mario is high outer

[@mexicancj]

These Mario fanboys deadass lost their mind 💀

[@mexicancj]

Relax for once it’s just someone’s opinion

[@BowserEditz]

How? We aren't sending you death threats or Insulting you we are just debunking your video and adressesing how the video wasnt well reseached If you came here to try making one of the most popular debates and expect to have nobody disagree with you thats childish

[@mexicancj]

@@BowserEditz it’s not ass research or anything like that, Mario just doesn’t scale that high

[@mexicancj]

I am aware that people will disagree with me don’t get me wrong, look at my Goku vs sonic and Naruto vs luffy vids,

[@BowserEditz]

@@mexicancj I never said it was "ass researched" I said it wasn't well researched And No Mario does scale higher than you think + you didn't even adresss all the other things that makes mario Outer or beyond 7D

[@SansINess53]

and also sonic beats mario and I mean if both are from the games then sonic wins, since sonic is really stronk and faster than mario, yes mario reacted to light but remember sonic was 9.5x light speed before frontiers but now it's clear sonic wins, and I mean sonic from the games not archie, archie is overkill against mario just put paper mario and archie sonic, literally sonic will still clap him but archie sonic isn't canon sonic like how paper mario isn't mario so basically game sonic beats mario at hard diff and archie beats the shit out of paper mario mid diff. (literally paper mario has no way of escaping the zone of silence)

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

Both have immeasurable speed lmao and paper Mario has so many ways to escape the zone of silence and hax that Archie Sonic can’t counter ( cutout,paperize, dimensional flipping, star rod, 1000 arms etc. )

[@Electricswitchalt]

9.5x the speed of light 😭😭💔 1) base sonic is WAY faster than that and so is base Mario 2) paper mario DEMOLISHES Archie Sonic, Archie Sonic isn’t even as strong as game sonic he’s just overwanked

[@SansINess53]

@@Electricswitchaltbro you forget that archie can send paper mario to the zone of silence making paper mario unable to win.

[@SansINess53]

@@Electricswitchalt and I said "sonic was 9.5x light speed" and I said that because at the time that was his speed.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@SansINess53 you cleary just ignored all of paper Mario counters for the zone of silence

[@Deadchannel371]

L

[@Tostykoo]

Mario negs

[@Kale-1257]

Bro did not even watch the vid😂

[@user-lu6yz7rq3j]

Why is he not using game sonic game sonic shit stomps but u are using Archie sonic

[@Tostykoo]

​@Kale-1257 I did, lol. He lowballed and downplayed mario to 6-7d when he actually scales higher than that and then wanks sonic to hyper-outer 😂

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@Kale-1257ass vid

[@Kale-1257]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 cap

[@I_Eated_The_Soap]

Mario Wins (I just played a round of Smash Bros)

[@sleepydeeznuts]

I respect your opinion tho I would disagree