Subsonic v Supersonic 22LR ammo (300 yard groups)

[@davidhandyman7571]

Ah, the humble little .22. Never to be underestimated.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, cheers

[@terrytreadway9645]

Thanks you two. I DO LOVE my old .22 rifle! Long gone are the days we could collect pop bottles to sell, then go to store at the age of 9 or 10 and buy a 50 cent box of shells.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Terry

[@glennguilliams3613]

Did the same 1965

[@UseVisine]

That sounds like a fantastic childhood.

[@Zionist_Eternal]

Exactly. Zemple's Hardware, 50 cents a box. Yes, those were good old days. All said, though... We're living in the most exciting times in recorded history. Granted, the bad guys appear to be winning. But, we've read the end of the book and know well who wins.

[@_JimS]

We recycled before recycling was Cool! We sure did our part ......without virtue signaling.

[@hotchihuahua1546]

Thank you Mark & Sam for all the hard work y’all do to keep us entertained .

[@markandsamafterwork]

thanks Man, Cheers

[@danielmcshane6502]

Loving all your 22lr videos. The style/production on this was great. I’m just getting back into shooting after 30+ years with a CZ457 Royal.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, and thanks Dan, Cheers

[@glennllewellyn7369]

Beautiful. All my wet work is done with the humble 22. 50 rounds a week usually.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Glenn

[@reggieswindeall7438]

I learned on a marlin .22. I still relish those by gone days. Bought when I was 12 yrs. Old. Never see that again. Thanks guys.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@MrJuice315]

Thank you for doing this! Everyone acts like I’m nuts when I say that at 250+ I like using CCI mini mag target 40grn rounds. I have a 5in by 6in plate at 400yrds and have had fantastic results. My little brother and I can routinely put 8/9-10 on that plate @ 400yrds.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@davidkohler7454]

This channel has supplied me with so much useful information. I love shooting long range. And I love this channel.I give a big Thank you Mark and Sam...until you are better paid. This content is so much worth a monetary investment from all whom benefit from it.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Dave, Cheers man

[@wallyfirkins4051]

Very cool information. Thank you two for your wonderful videos. I love the Sam comments.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Wally

[@donnienall626]

velocitor from CCI is some good ammo

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep. Cheers

[@645angel]

My wife and I love watching you guys thank you for your time making these videos very helpful info we started to get into long range shooting

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Alex, Cheers guy's thanks

[@JM10344]

This was a great video. I just bought a .22 wmr just to stay above transonic longer than .22lr.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@rickhicks6833]

My wife shoots 22lr competition. Eley Tenex has been the best ammo for her out to 100yds. She uses a 10/22 with a Tactical Solutions barrel. When things go right She often gets 5 shot groups that are one hole. She's tried dozens of different ammo types. She's been thinking of trying longer ranges, so this information will really help.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@Jeff_Seely]

Excellent video. The trans-sonic zone topic is something I have not given much consideration in regard to the 22LR. It seems like velocity is King at these distances regardless. Thanks Mark and Sam!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Jeff, thanks man

[@RU2AIM]

I'm going to try those Velocitors in my 12rd Uberti Cattleman 5.5" bbl when I'm out enjoying shooting stationary clays on the 200m berm. Thank you for proving the transonic barrier isn't much of a barrier! I can't wait until the weather clears!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@RU2AIM]

@@markandsamafterwork You don't by chance do any international radio comms? 11m or Amateur?

[@googleeyeseyes4033]

Fantastic, thanks much, this is perfect timing as I’m just going out for long distant 22 shooting within the hour and you even saved me the search for MOA and I’ve got the very same ammo, and shooting a CZ 457. As usual, great info and material!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@mhughes1160]

Waiting to see Mark and Sam take a Daisy Red Ryder out to a 1000 yards . LoL 😂 Another great video thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@jaycee30865]

Super soaker

[@MrJtin69]

Beauty as always mark and sam thank you kindly for all youve done and all you will go onto do ❤️

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@islanddon865]

I'm a Velocitor user. I am also pleased how it feeds in my semi-autos.👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@davidanderson1916]

Great video-like your set setup - the standard velocity .22 is all I shoot for small game in the swamps in Florida- and in reality it’s all i need - again great video 🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Dave, Cheers

[@seanwoodburn2616]

Fantastic video and highly usefull. I have recently been contemplating 22 ELR and you have definitely opened my mind and amswered so questions.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@cameronmccreary4758]

It looks like the Veloster ammunition did the best accuracy wise. I can also understand why it is printed on the boxes of .22 rimfire cartridges, "Dangerous within one mile or in some cases one and a half miles." Nice shooting again Mark and thanks for the explanation of the ammunition beforehand and after. It would be nice to see this test done with the .22 Magnum rimfire cartridges.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Different deal Cam, but we have a bit of that on the channel, Cheers

[@cameronmccreary4758]

@@markandsamafterwork I found the .22 Magnum video. Shooting handloaded cartridges at 1000 yards. Wonderful! I can see that the bullets don't have much power left when they strike the target. When I was younger and working for John Martz Luger maker he built a .22 Magnum Luger carbine. I made the stock for it and we shot it out to about 250 yards with open carbine type sights and it shot well at that range. I found it difficult to see the holes in the target at that range even with a spotting scope.

[@glockparaastra]

Cheers! I really enjoy shooting 22 ELR. I often see (through my scope) the bullet coming on to the target from above.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@c94d44027]

Having a CZ455 I can say it is an absolute joy to shoot. ❤

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@nickfranklin1867]

An interesting video Mark, and what you say about the the projectile speeds makes perfect sense

[@markandsamafterwork]

cheers Nick

[@BillWestHobby]

Great info and update on crossing the sonic barrier.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Bill

[@benkincade5254]

Thanks for the effort with this. Certainly addresses some assumptions.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Ben

[@cfm6229]

awesome , the highest velocity is the tightest group!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@shelley131]

Thank you both for the videos and information. I too have found that the transonic stage has very little effect if any when shooting rimfire ammo at 200 yards or further.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@RS-dc7wy]

That was surprising, thanks for the great information and research. 👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@shanegibb997]

excellent video Mark , that was very very interesting ...

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Shane, Cheers

[@StanleyWallace74734]

Man that's quite a poke for .22 cool video as always. Keep up the awesome work guys

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Stan

[@davidsalsedo8389]

As usual Mark, Always the best content. Thank you!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Dave, Cheers

[@johnpower8356]

Those velocitors were hitting hard

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@jcnikoley]

I found that the CCI mini mags work very well out to 400. I’m pretty sure they’re tumbling at 600 as the drop is substantially more than what they should be, and I was only able to hit the target one out of 13 tries. I’ll have to try the velocitors next time at 600.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes should help a little, but sure gets hard out there, lol, Cheers

[@imeprezime1285]

Examine how they hit wooden/paper targets at 600 yards. I can't be sure, but I guess it's just excessive jaw angle ( not the "tumbling") effect

[@lz3572]

Once again great work. Just setting up a LR. 22 Great information Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks man

[@Mark-qq7io]

Very interesting and very informative study thanks for the hard work really enjoy your channel

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Mark

[@MrJanneilmari]

Hi! My experience of velositors tells that there is variations of weight. Few of really heavy/light and two groups of weight. Around 1/3 0f a kind. In groups it means two group and fliers.. I do sort velocitors and use those two good sortiment. Pistol plinking will eat those heavy/ligt ammo.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@westtexas3041]

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. Have a great day.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks West, Cheers

[@randomidiot8142]

I wonder what's keeping Lapua and Eley from making a cci velocitor equivalent. That's the biggest argument I've seen about the HV vs SV debate: the 'best' ammo is SV, so of course HV has to be 'worse'. I like the Lapua/SK for semi autos. Greasier and slicker for more reliable feeding.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@mikecollins8241]

I am excitied to get out and try shooting at longer ranges.. now that I'm seeing 22's on the shelf locally, again :)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers Mike

[@chrislang5659]

This should explain a lot to a lot of people!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Chris

[@demolitiondan1188]

You guys are awesome!!👍🏻👍🏻

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@regsparkes6507]

I enjoy rimfire shooting and this test or proof session was very interesting and surprisingly, eye opening, so to speak. Thanks Mark and Sam.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, thanks Reg, Cheers

[@tairandeng3090]

I really enjoy learning about what you found out. It's a pity that no match ammo is produced supersonic, otherwise with nice QC and high velocity it would be a game changer.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Agreed, Cheers

[@Guide504]

Transonic is only an issue on over stabilised bullets, most 22lrs are fairly ballanced with bullet speed and twist rate.

[@markandsamafterwork]

We have vids on the subject, Cheers

[@Guide504]

@@markandsamafterwork comment was meant for the viewers, been a fan of you guys for time. All the best from UK.

[@stevedragovich909]

I use CCI Green Tag 40gr in my 10/22 clone and can put 20 round in one hole at 50 yds. It performs the best of all I've used.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@precisionairgunninghunting6265]

Another great informative video 😀 I use Lapua Midas Plus in my 10/22, just found it to be the most accurate but never taken it over 150yds. Perhaps I will give it a go out of curiosity 😀

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@gboutdoors5198]

I'm 14, and I got my MARK II GXP Savage 22LR. I used some Blazer ammo and hit a 4-inch target at 300 yards. I was crouching on the floor and used a Field Pod Max to hold my rifle. I had maxed out my scope turrets in elevation, so I had to do some Kentucky windage and aim a bit high over the target. It took me about 10 tries, but then I heard a ding, and it fell over. My scope has no mil dots or hash marks, just a plain old X reticle.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@johnorenick9026]

You said something about variation in .22 ammo--you were talking about CCI Velocitor at the time--being due to tiny variations in the itty-bitty powder charge. That may well be part of it. But I was told, or read, long ago, that it's very difficult to get the exact same amount of priming compound in each .22 cartridge. With the powder charge being so tiny, any variation in the relatively hotter primer has more of an effect on velocity. AIR, Wolf ammo was buying primed cases from Eley, because Eley ammunition is extra accurate because they're better at priming the difficult little .22 case.

[@johnorenick9026]

Oops. Forgot. I've chronographed Velocitor, and out of a 17-inch barrel I got something more like 1330 f/s. That's still usefully faster than "high velocity"--40 grs @~1250--and it is very accurate in the .22 rifles I've tried it in, so it is a favorite hunting load. It's just not 1435. I don't know if it would be faster from a longer barrel: lots, but not all, .22LR seems to be all done accelerating in 10 inches.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@Dwayne7834]

Thanks Mark and Sam . Informative and good video.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Dwayne

[@texasraider1137]

Thank you so much for the .22 coverage in long range shooting. With ammo so expensive now, my CZ 455 is what I shoot the most. Mine likes Norma Match best out to 200 yards but I do shoot some CCI and Aguilia. At 100 yards, the Norma Match groupings are 1 MOA and the standard and high velocity stuff is 1.5 to 2.0 MOA's. I'm now looking forward to stretching it out to 300 yards and will certainly take your advice and try the higher velocity ammo. Thanks again and please keep the .22 videos coming. There are not too many channels that cover long range shooting in .22 calibers.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, glad you liked, Cheers

[@jinks6410]

Great video. Point is, have a dedicated ammo or rifle for different distances. Out to 150, SV will literally stack on one another with a custom rifle. High velocity ammo for ELR where SV runs out of poop and its benefits are no longer viable. Thank you for your hard work!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@walterluiz4694]

Very good my friends

[@markandsamafterwork]

thank you Walter

[@decibellone696]

my only XP with subsonic ammo is when my grandfather left me his Colt Woodsman, you cant shoot supersonic ammo through it. but I find the experience still good.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@kubikariYOU]

Thanks for demonstrating.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@joshbrekke6374]

Very nice to learn from your testing. Obviously more bang more distance with better groups, providing its a proper projectile. I’m testing Remington golden bullets hollow tip 40gr@ 1275 fps that cost $0.05 per round & Federal AutoMatch solid tip 40gr@ 1200fps that’s also $0.05 a round. From your testing I see that at those ranges, 40gr projectile is best for proper wind flow & ballistics. I’m testing with a CZ 457 Jaguar 1/2x28, 28” barrel, Anschutz 1710 22” match, Remington 550-1, Marlin model 60, Winchester model 52 sporter & model 74, Mossberg model 151, Wards Westerfield 87a & my Remington 572 pump. I’m looking into SK Long distance match & super long. Also some Norma offerings in 1010fps-1400fps match varieties. ELEY & Lapua I refuse to special order. If I can’t see and put hands on it. I’m yet to buy it. Thanks, I made sure to like & subscribe. Great Work, my kids and I love to learn.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Josh

[@soundman6645]

So much hokus pokus and mumbo jumbo in this shooting business. Facts is what we all need.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@mgabriel2636]

It occurs to me that round nose bullets may have better stability coefficients for a given twist, because they are shorter and have less center of pressure to center of gravity moment arm to destabilize them as they go through transsonic zone. But then you don't seem to find significant destabilization even in longer spirepoints....

[@markandsamafterwork]

We have videos that explain more, but yes all about levels of needed stabilization, Cheers

[@pijnto]

I would have shot 100.000 .22 over the years always high velocity of various types, and I can't say I have ever noticed a problem with tumbling etc.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, Cheers

[@jeancharlesmujor9963]

Another perfect vidéo ! merci beaucoup

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@timisfree1768]

Great work!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@roseybut]

Conclusive enough for me. Thanks.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@sjohnson1776]

Good stuff! I read somewhere (or saw) that match shooters almost exclusively use subsonic ammo so they don't have to deal with the transonic zone. This video kind of blows that away. COOL!! Thanks!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, lol, Cheers

[@Mr3311957]

Good video, and great information.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@YenZenBamboo]

I am not a nay sayer, I just want you to figure out how to tow a go-pro behind the projectile whilst it’s in flight. Lol It would save a lot of paper needed to show bullets stable or tumbling. Great work Mark and Sam. Thankyou.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, we have videos that explain, but bullet don't stay travelling straight when they tumble, so, at any extended distance, the grouping with tell you, Cheers

[@12gauge1oz]

Great channel. All business, no BS. Clearly it's the ammo, no skill involved, lol.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, thanks Man

[@aascher4039]

Happy new year!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Happy New Year

[@bobarganbright180]

High velocity ammo works the best for me at longer ranges. I came to the conclusion that a centerfire is the only practical thing to use if I really want to hit something . It gets frustrating to use so many rounds to hit something consistently like a prairie dog or crow size target even at 200 yards. It is great for wind, scope adjusting, and trigger let off practice. And of course cheap. Improving the velocitor quality has possibilities. Good luck.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Bob

[@georgedreisch2662]

Have you found any scaled parallels / patterns between the .22LR ammunition and your 45-70 experiments, for the similarities of bullet style? I would think rates of twist would have considerable influence on stability especially in managing bullet behavior through transonic trajectory profiles. I’m very impressed with LR groups you’re achieving with the various factory .22LR loads, especially for the amplitude of percentages of variance in these little loads, when compared to center fire ammunition, as you noted. As always, a very informative and well done video. Cheers

[@markandsamafterwork]

No, but we do spend lots time doing that sort of thing, Glad you liked, Cheers

[@geordiegeorge9041]

The Velocitor was impressive, I did not think it would group like that at 300. At 100 it's very inconsistent.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@prone_wolf8871]

So far been shooting the rimx with either cheap bulk or sk long range matchb mill I've only gotten out to 455 yet...lol

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@6.5grendel11]

Thanks guys. Very informative video!!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@paulharding1621]

Thanks Mark and Sam, very informative. I’ve tried Velocitor in my 16 inch barrelled CZ at 100 meters, much flatter shooting but my rifle does not seem to shoot it as accurately as standard velocity at that range. Cheers.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@pest_predator_nz]

Thanks this is really informative!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Paul

[@greymatter7624]

Thank you very much for all the content you share. A wealth of knowledge!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@chrisgabbert658]

👍😊🎯 I like CCI 22 ammunition tens to be cleaner for autos.

[@markandsamafterwork]

cheers

[@PrimericanIdol]

Subsonics are best for indoor shooting and household pest control. A 60 grain projectile under 900 fps won't go through a 2x4. And you can shoot it without ear protection. Fired from a rifle, It sounds like a nail gun.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@paulsimmons5726]

Luckily, using my 40X/Redfield Olympic sights on 50ft targets, the problems with the sub/std/hyper selection don’t really trouble me. One of these days though, I’m going to pick up another 40X and throw a scope on it and you can bet that I’ll be re-watching all of these videos. Great video, take care and be well!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Paul

[@ilikesundays4312]

Great video, great shooting. Might try the cci again.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@lyndonhamby7432]

Nice rifle Mark. Love your videos. Awesome channel ☝️👍👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Lyndon

[@richardliles4415]

Nice shooting. Thank you.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Rich

[@perrym6937]

i have a 10/22 loves 1400ft ammo. have tried 10 diff speeds in it and it likes the fast stuff. but every rifle diffrent

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@vernshein5430]

Great video, thanks!

[@markandsamafterwork]

cheers

[@oby-1607]

The Velocitor really seemed to hit a lot harder proving that speed helps accuracy.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@ozyrob1]

Interesting results. Ignore the keyboard experts. The majority of them don't have a clue.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers Ozy

[@numizaairguns1373]

last one was awesome group

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, Cheers

[@toml802]

Kind of like your other ELR stuff (Heavier going faster) then? Ha ha! I have found fairly good consistency with just about ALL of the CCI factory ammo and the Federal match is very consistent as well. At some point I'm going to actually load my own cast lead 40 gr., .22LR with tailored charges and keep them in like weighted lots.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@JanScales]

great that helps me a lot thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@Blackhawk556.]

Great info

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@michaelbarrett2346]

Great video

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@betinho153]

Muito bom! Muito bem explicado 👏👏👏👏👏

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@JohnRoberts71]

Great content thanks for sharing

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers John

[@noahway13]

I built a custom-made .22 Match Rifle. It cost about $1,200, i have a 24 inch bull barrel with a 6 inch suppressor and a 16 power Leupold scope. I have custom-made hand loaded match cartridges. You might not believe it but I have it on video. I am able to get a 6-inch Group at 100 yards all day long.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome. Cheers Noah

[@guyvossen1640]

Helpfull

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@kobusdup7910]

Great shooting as always. What size targets were you shooting at? I may have missed it somewhere i the video.

[@markandsamafterwork]

24"

[@kobusdup7910]

@@markandsamafterwork thanks Mark

[@philippefrater2000]

My standard velocity 330 m/secs are doing well up to 280/340 Meters. Better shoot when there's not too much wind... But it's ok! 🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers

[@90civicsir]

Thanks for this video, I need to give supersonic ammo a try again. What barrel is on the CZ 455? I have a 457 VPT but not a match chambered barrel. Wondering if I should change it out.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Factory Varmint

[@donowen5709]

I'm glad mine shoots less than 300 yard groups.😁

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@gtxhunter9980]

Today I got an egw 40moa scope base set a target at 27 yards to bore sight in. It worked. Using a standard stock American rimfire Moved up to 220 yards and I was never able to hit the target with cci subsonic. As if that was the max distance. Even maxing out my scope I switched to standard federal 1200fps and reset my scope. And it was a hit first try. I moved out to 380 yards(+54moa) had to guesstimate for a consistent 20mph wind and I had impact on second attempt How are you hitting so far with subsonic???

[@markandsamafterwork]

Not our first time, been doing this sort of thing for years, lol, Cheers