This COMPOSITION Tool Eats the RULE of THIRDS for Breakfast!! Landscape Photography

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

How often do you use the Rule of Thirds?

[@0oTHEJACKo0]

every third photo of course

[@saddamhussain1312]

Almost 50 % shots i use rule of thirds 😁

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

0oTHEJACKo0 Haha! Exactly!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

saddam hussain Thats about the amount I used to as well.

[@JungleEddie]

I almost always start holding my camera with the subject along one of the thirds lines and then I swing the camera lens around in circles until I see something pleasing and then I set up the tripod.

[@KimRormarkphotography]

The ROT and the Golden spiral are based on the same principles originating from art. In most landscape photos it's easy to overlay the spiral in Lightroom and rationalize that it’s working. If the photo is shot with the ROT in mind it’s even more likely the Golden spiral will work. In practical use for landscape photography I find the ROT more convenient as it also helps positioning and leveling the horizon and vertical lines if present in the composition.

[@sudarshankar9094]

My thoughts, exactly. The Golden Spiral rule seems more like twisting facts to suit the theory.

[@bubbajones5905]

..."rationalize that it’s working". Yes, it seems very contrived. The Emperor's new cloths.

[@terrysparkshiking]

I'm a newer photographer and serious student of this endeavor. While reading about composition a few months ago, I took the advice offered and made a cardboard 6” X8” cutout to help me visualize framing my photos before setting up the camera. The second thing I did was make a ROT grid overlay from a transparent sheet of plastic for the cardboard cut out and another for my camera screen, so it would always be visible. After watching a webinar on photographing flowers, I added another cutout with the golden ratio affixed to it, of which I still use, and will continue to use until I can visualize it without thought. Your video drives home what I'm training myself to do, and I am again thankful for your great tutorials Mark.

[@uncle-woody2]

Honestly, I have yet to see an image with the Golden Ratio that makes sense to me - not that it doesn't work! It just doesn't make sense to me. With your images I see how you're lining it up, but the spiral is never the direction my eyes flow across the image - in fact it's usually backwards. It seems to be a bit hokey, and the fact that it 'works' is more to do that the center of the spiral is close to an intersection of the Rule of Thirds. For the Rule of Thirds, I see it as a way to just divide your composition. I actually didn't know you were 'supposed' to put things on the intersecting lines. I've always just used it to place things into one of the three columns or rows. With your image of the tree on the coastline as an example (03:58), I see it as the tree belonging to the right 1/3 section (I might pull the right edge to the left a bit more), and the other 2/3 is empty space/ocean. The land mass creates a bit of a leading line pointing out to the empty space that pulls your eyes over, and creates a bit of a story about standing on the edge of emptiness. That makes more sense to me than a spiral - my eyes never spiral around in the image. I appreciate all your content Mark, it's been a pretty big inspiration and I've learned a lot. Hope this comment doesn't come off as a shot at you 😅

[@jimmyb4982]

Now, that's how you respectfully disagree!

[@fernandoish9194]

Yeah, I agree. I don’t think the ROT necessarily means that there has to be a point of interest in one of the intersections (for landscape photography). If your image has a house in the foreground and mountains in the background placing the house in one of the intersections works pretty good, but sometimes you just don’t have that clear point of interest (the house). In the images he’s shown at the beginning of the video I just see the ROT as a way to divide the picture in 1/3 and 2/3, like you said. You chose which of those is sky or ground (or sea/ground/ sea/sky, whatever) depending on what’s more interesting. There are many situations where the clear point of interest just isn’t there. Maybe in other styles of photography you do have a clear subject separated from the background and you need to place it in one of those intersections (like a bird standing in a branch with a blurry background) but in landscape photography is not the same story.

[@jeffluo9591]

My eyes did spiral around in the image in the video, but only when the spiral is shown. Without the spiral overlay, not so much.

[@freddyfleal]

He is using the spiral as a a leading line which is, at least, a little odd. When I studied the Golden Ratio in art school it was about proportion, how each segment is multiplied by 1.16(...), so as I understand, a photo that REALLY follows the Golden Ratio would have each element not only in the place of the line but with it's proportions changed more or less by this ratio, otherwise I would argue it's just a leading line as any other

[@nolejd50]

The thing is, Mark is not using the golden spiral properly.

[@calebplumleephotography]

I've always felt the rule of thirds and golden spiral are essentially the same thing. Overlay the spiral and a thirds grid and they nearly line up... natural photo elements rarely align perfectly with either, so they are each a good approximation of one another in composition terms. I also think if you try hard enough, you can make almost anything line up with these concepts... I believe people want to find patterns in things more so than true patterns exist.

[@maxdiditagain]

I have watched a handful of your videos, I plan to watch more. What I respect the most is that you have liked the positive comments...sometimes where there are hundreds! It shows your taking you're time and energy to read them. Thanks for that. Cheers

[@sassytbc7923]

Leading lines is a very good for new photographers when they are just starting out. I taught it to my students last year, they very much appreciated it because it was quite concrete.

[@SimonBoothPhotography]

I think you show here that both the third grid and the golden spiral can be made to fit most if not all your images. This is because you have a developed eye and compose naturally. In essence, when you start out, you need to keep these visual cues in the back of your mind when in the field, but as you grow, they become second nature. I don’t feel the latter eats the former for breakfast though!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks Simon! Yes, I like to think so as well, but every once and awhile I come back from a trip wondering what in the world I was thinking with a particular composition. My biggest fault with regards to composition is probably trying to get overly complicated with it. I've found over the years that my favorite images generally are the ones that are composed in a simple fashion - suppose less is more! Appreciate you checking out the video Simon!

[@SimonBoothPhotography]

@@MarkDenneyPhoto You're very welcome Mark. I try to watch them as often as I can!

[@SimonBoothPhotography]

@@MarkDenneyPhoto I also agree that in many cases less is more too!

[@ewoutgsa]

Thanks Mark for showing you can just take the photo and choose the rule that fits it best in post...

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad to do it👍👍

[@tobiasyoder]

lol at the start I swear I was thinking "okay... I feel like anything would fit this" and was so glad to see you call that out haha

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Hahha! Right👍

[@catchlite5196]

I still think this is the case... so I am still searching.

[@ianmichael9224]

Really glad I came across this ,very useful!

[@Mikyll1969]

I am a total newb to photography, and have been attracted to landscapes, and portrait styles... Thank you for the informative and engaging help videos

[@jakeoneil1476]

Love Fibonacci sequences and spirals. I’m also a day trader and it’s amazing how often fib sequences can predict price movement. Editing to it makes all the difference too!

[@awsmithjr]

Thanks!

[@awsmithjr]

Mark, I wish I’d found your videos years ago. You are a marvelous teacher. Thanks

[@Bigweave74]

Been shooting for 10 years and I’m still getting taken to school! Excellent video once again Mark! I’ve been a follower since you were sub 10K subscribers and I learn something new from you every week.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Always appreciate your comments Jared and definitely appreciate all the support as well man - really means a lot!

[@BrianNorthmorePhotography]

Mark, I feel you have done the same with the golden spiral as you did with the rule of thirds. If you compose with the rule of thirds the end of the spiral will nearly always line up with the spiral. I think for beginners rules are essential to provide guidance on what to do. As you train you’re eye to see compositions, you start to compose naturally creating balance, tension, or whatever the subject needs. I also think it’s true that most of these compositions will be able to retrospectively apply a rule if you look for it. I think the point you make people about the spiral creating a sense of visual flow in the image, a natural pathway for the eye to move along is very relevant, and worth exploring more. Strangely I shot a video yesterday where I discuss composition, and touch on rules. Thanks 🙏 for sharing this, has got me thinking a little more about using the spiral to create flow.

[@sandyhancock2020]

I found a golden spiral camera app on my phone .. while this is not the camera I would use for a final shoot, it could be helpful in practicing using the golden spiral

[@fahadarisulhakim428]

thank you for all that’s you explaining about avoid the rule of third and focus on the problem in the main point.

[@philmalone1982]

A Golden Spiral crop overlay in Lightroom! WHO KNEW? I'm now in the process of going through old images and using this. Great video......again!

[@alanhumbard8298]

Great video Denny. You gave us a lot of food for thought. I swear that I learn something on every one of you videos.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much Alan! Thats music to my ears!

[@jonathanfmarin]

BTW... all your “golden spiral images” also fit into the rule of thirds.

[@thomsonsunil7394]

I thought it too

[@alexmacchalatte]

The Rule of Thirds is a simplification of the Golden Mean.

[@alexgraefe.photoYT]

Isnt that exactly the point?! You can say in almost every situation, that its the rule of thirds in landscape photography, but that doesnt mean, that this is enough to make a photo composition beyond just "okay".

[@jonathanfmarin]

@@alexgraefe.photoYT My comment was written because I am not exactly sure what the point is!? A great image is a great image. Out of focus, poor white balance, grainy etc... if you are trying to fit every image into a very specific formula you are missing the point. It's kind of like playing jazz without being willing to improvise.

[@alexgraefe.photoYT]

I believe that those rules exist for a reason. I'm really new to photography and I feel like, thinking about how I could improve the angle I'm taking a photo from, really makes my shots better. Those rules can help with that. That said, I also think that often times I take a photo because I think it just looks "cool" and later find out, that it matches one of those rules and in post production I can crop my image to match it even more. Subconsciously we do a lot of things that just feel right which actually is following a rule of some sort. Not only in photography. Of course this is just my opinion and as I already said. I'm a photography noob (;

[@BenelliMr]

I learned that Leonardo da Vinci developed the concept and the golden rule; I use it since then ... well, only a few hundred years later ... as a kid at school I learned about it; since then whenever I go to a museum to get inspiration for my photos, I see it almost everywhere. Only many decades later I learned that some people don't use it and have simplified it to rule of thirds. I never understood why. Well, I must admit that there are so many myths in the photography world that need to be dropped. Just go from time to time into museums and learn from the grand masters For example, you want to learn how to shoot landscape photography with interesting skies and dramatic clouds? Just look at some paintings of William Turner Mark, I love this video and I hope that you continue to make some more videos to clean up our oversimplified world and bring back some high level class into photography.

[@nimmira]

This video brings back some memories. Around the period 2012-2013, I've just joined a photography group back then, and we got involved somehow in a seminar held by the award-winning Iranian-French photographer Reza Deghati. He mentioned something (in answer to some question) which involves how we see things. I can't remember his exact words but he stated that the rule of thirds is actually not "the thing" and it was mainly based on observations by some researchers and scholars who were mainly based in Europe. He said, I remember, that according to his experience, most people in the Orient and Eastern regions, do have a tendency to see things in a way fitting the spiral (he didn't specifically say golden spiral) rather than fitting some intersecting points on a grid. All in all, he didn't really believe in the importance of such guide lines, as far as I remember. I've encountered his viewpoints later on books by other photographers, like Bruce Barnbaum. Barnbaum, I remember, even believed that it is wrong and a mistake to teach art students the law of thirds altogether (or any compositional structure) and to leave things to the instincts. By the way, the golden spiral or ratio is not 100% fitting in nature as many people think. There is a video on Numberphile channel here on KZbin that talks about these spirals, and what people typically call golden spiral (which is a structure built around the golden ratio) is not exactly that. But there are other spirals with other metallic names, e.g. silver spiral, bronze spiral, that are built on different ratios than 1.618; and those are MORE common in nature than the golden ratio actually.

[@sksignsdesignsmarketing3993]

Just re-edited two of mine from last year, and wow. Huge difference. Thanks!

[@canoradam]

Wow, just when I thought your videos couldn't get anymore helpful! I can't wait to go home and try this out on a bunch of my photos I've been wanting to frame.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Great to hear you enjoyed it Adam!

[@ronkathyballard5923]

I don’t use the rule of thirds too much in landscapes but was never able to clearly visualize the golden spiral when taking a landscape photo. As a result I quit even considering it when composing a photo. Your suggestion of visualizing the rotation of the number “9” was a great idea and I will start using it as a tool in my compositions. I will also go back through some older photos and see if the golden spiral was actually applied.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Maybe one day a camera manufacturer will give us more than the rule of thirds built in - that would make things so much easier if we had the option to change it in camera.

[@Dolmen254]

Mark, recently discovered your site, one of the best, thank you. Merry Christmas to you.

[@pm1Chh]

Thank you again for verry informative video. It was a good excercise for my eyes too.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Happy to do it Brano! Hope you’re doing well👍

[@RGMGFitness]

Nice video! I agree...I think images edited using the golden spiral can often look so much better than just following a typical rule of thirds. Great reminder for me to use this feature in lightroom...thanks for the video!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much! They definitely seem to have a pleasing flow to them that’s for certain!

[@BitterClinger1947]

One of the reasons I like going to museums is to see how principles of composition have developed over hundreds of years, in painting.sculpture etc. It’s also interesting to see how modern artists break many of these rules.

[@adammohdkhairuddin1749]

I just bought a Canon EOS M200 to learn photography. Your channel really helped me to learn the basics of photography. Thank you :)

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Awesome! Glad to hear it Adam!

[@abibstopherwilliam]

Really loving the new angles of you photo lair!! It all looks so atmospheric!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Many thanks William! It took me quite awhile to get this dialed in just right!

[@leosievanen]

Thanks again for another inspiring video! I will most definitely try the golden spiral on pics. It has been so easy to stuck to just using the rule of thirds as the main composition rule. Keep up the good work!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much for checking out this weeks video!

[@Mcmatthew99]

Very informative! Your voice is very calm.

[@snoopaka]

Lots of fun things to think about and terrific information. Great video Mark. 14ish minutes went by in a flash!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much!

[@HenryvdVeer]

In addition to your extremely calming voice, very nice video. I will surely try that out on my photos. Keep up the inspiring work ! :)

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Many thanks Henry!

[@johnburne1252]

Nice to see someone understanding and using this method/guideline. there is a camera that has an overlay of this, the Olympus E3, i use one. there may be others.

[@saltlifegull4091]

Wow, never knew, but glad I stumbled across your site. Thanks so much Mark and gonna go to Square Space. Amazing info! Thank you for sharing your time and info. Subscriber from Florida.

[@Kevinabreu]

The first couple of examples of the ocean and El Cap (or whatever mountain it is) are actually more emblematic of the 20-80 rule. The later photo of El Capitan actually had some slight visual interest leading the eye to the sunset spot on it.

[@nlh835]

I need to check my photos. Really enjoying this video. I alway try to use the rule of thirds.

[@rakim7484]

The most interesting in the Golden Ratio is that it is a mathematic rules, and it is everywhere around us. This ratio is from the Fibonacci sequence? Absolutely passionating

[@niftytwo]

That’s a great idea Mark. It will give me a very positive way of constructing my photos. Thank you for your help. Neville

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks Neville and a big thanks for watching this week's video!

[@frtzkng]

I do use both, and I also tend to re-size or crop my images to a 16:10 ratio, which is very close to the Golden Ratio

[@paulduan1848]

Hi Mark, the golden spiral, or the golden spilt is fundamental to human vision and brain system more importantly because it’s how nature constructs it’s products. A spiral is actually composed by continuously going around a rectangular frame of this golden ratio. I remember learning about it in my math classes in China like the width and length of a leaf or those of a bug and so sheet papers and book lengths and widths are cut accordingly. Many of the pictures you showed actually falls into the golden ratio or “golden split” it doesn’t have to be a spiral. That being said, I never thought of it in photography till your post! Thanks for bringing this up and Always appreciate your posts!! Best wishes and stay safe!!

[@jamesberardino5420]

Thanks for this video, Mark! I had been looking for a golden ratio overlay/plugin for lightroom for ages, who knew it was already there!

[@mitchellvaneijk1855]

Mark, thank you so much for the useful insights. They are so helpful, especially the option to use the overlay in Lightroom. You have one of the most helpful and interesting KZbin channels.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Very kind of you to say - thank so much!

[@jhoang861]

all this time, i had that golden spiral in lightroom and didn’t know it! Thx for sharing!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Happy to do it!

[@benoloughlin1557]

Thanks Mark! I have been intending to use the golden spiral as a compositional tool in my landscape photos and your video was exactly what I needed to see. Hope you are well and doing ok!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Perfect timing! Hope the video was helpful! I'm doing well and I hope you are too.

[@CalvinGomes]

I like the golden spiral but I found my eye drawn in different directions to what Mark said. Like the one with the wave breaking on rocks. My eye went the opposite way...from the right side, over to the left from the bottom, following the rock ledge over to thr three jutting rocks. The one with the forest with the small waterfall...my eyes rested on the waterfall rather than the rock (suggesting the spiral probably should be flipped to have the end at the watefall). I think rule of thirds works really great and closely achieved the result. If you overlay rule of third over the golden spiral, you may find a sweet spot. I tend to compose using rule of thirds and leading lines. This golden spiral is a new useful tip in my toolkit though.

[@paulroberson7113]

Top notch video aa usual! It’s certainly a new way of looking at framing compositions. Bye the way I love the ambient lighting in the background!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Much appreciated Paul! Glad you think so.

[@JungleJimAB9AB]

Astounding information. I've seen this curve in passing, but didn't understand its relevance to photographic composition. This is an "Ah Ha!" moment for me.

[@aronaldharper543]

My issue is that if the golden spiral is everywhere then finding the rule of thirds everywhere is essentially the same concept

[@paulhopkins8391]

@mark denney there are a number of apps available for Android or iOS that will enable you to use your phone with the different composition rules in. I find this helping when looking for a composition

[@richardpowellTV]

Thanks Mark, that's the best explanation of the spiral I've seen. As for the "Rule" of thirds I never deliberately use it although I always have the grid on my camera! I just find my composition and if it happens to fit into thirds so be it. Composition first, ROT second!!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Many thanks Rick - I’m glad to hear you enjoyed it!

[@arunakalu]

I didn't even know LR had other composition rules except the ROT, until I saw your video :-). Still 80% of the time, I let my eyes and mind do the composition work and if I am still not happy and confused I used the tool, to justify my compositions or do a better job. Now I know another tool I can use, Thank You.

[@lesliewood8382]

Had to go back and look at the wildflower photos I took this afternoon. I'm challenging myself to understand why I prefer some compositions of a group of flowers and not the others. Well, the golden spirals always won out. This video was just what I needed today, thanks!!!!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad to hear it Leslie! Thanks for checking it out!

[@DevinePhotography]

Mark, you are correct in that the "Golden Spiral" is a better compositional tool than the "rule of thirds". The area where the spiral terminates indicates the area of the frame known as the "Golden Section" which is often the best place to locate the main area of interest in the composition. The "rule of thirds" is often used by beginners as the main compositional guideline, as it is easier to use. Where the lines intersect in the rule of thirds approximates the Golden Section but it's positioning is generally not as pleasing as using the Golden Section. Of course this is just a guideline for placing the main subject of a "dynamic composition". There are many other rules of composition regarding the other areas of the frame and balancing points. The other use of the "Golden Ratio" 1.618 is to multiply the short side of a rectangle by that figure to get a "Golden Rectangle" which has ideal proportions for the overall composition. Any landscape photographer would be advised to study the formal rules of pictorial composition that where often used in the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth centuries. The rules of composition in photography are not quite so rigid nowadays but knowing when to use the rules and when to break them will help anyone's images!

[@mniblick1]

Great advice to visualize an imaginary 9 (or 6) when composing a scene. I plan to use it. Thanks.

[@SinaFarhat]

Very nice! I go by my instinct when I compose my photos depending on the story I want to tell with my street photo or if I take environmental portraits/ cityscape photos. I do recognise that I need to spend more time on the crop tool in lightroom in order to get the most from my photos! Keep up the good work!

[@georgeumber6287]

Interesting video and worth trying for editing images. The golden spiral as a compositional tool seems to look for patterns for the sake of finding patterns. The eye tends to move in straight lines and sweeping curves when looking at an image, not in a spiral or circular manner. It is interesting that the end zone of the spiral finishes along a rule of thirds line in one direction and it could be a version of the rule of thirds.

[@unlockscotland]

Enjoying your videos Mark. Well done

[@sayanbhattacharya6882]

It was an amazing Video. Theoretical information with Photos really helps to understand everything thank you so much to make this type of videos...

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much for checking it out - glad to hear you enjoyed it!

[@AlergicToSnow]

I’m a woodworker, too. The golden ratio (not spiral) is used all the time in furniture design, esp cabinets to size and place drawers and doors.

[@samevans7753]

Wow thank you for this... great information... Amazing photographers too.

[@brennen-nwamtb789]

Thanks for the incredible video as always!!! Keep up the great work!!! Also do you by any chance host any photography workshops? I have been watching your vids for a long time and I really have learned a lot from them. It would be amazing to learn more from you through an in person photography workshop!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much! I really appreciate that. I'll be teaching at both the Out of Acadia and Out of Moab Landscape Photography Conferences this fall - here's more info if you'd like to check that out: www.outofchicago.com/

[@brennen-nwamtb789]

@@MarkDenneyPhoto Thanks for letting me know!!! I will see if i will be available then!!!

[@TheMoodyPhotographer]

Very interesting subject I find the photo @10:10 represents the golden spiral perfectly 👏🏻 I use the rule of thirds more often in landscapes, but in woodland way less, especially if im restricted in a way that I don't want to go wide because I don't want to include the sky

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

I’m glad you think so! Yeah I’ve always found it difficult to accurately use the rule of thirds in woodland scenes.

[@smitkapadia8080]

A very curious and intriguing composition technique. Never really thought about the Golden spiral before. Thank you for explaining me this amazing golden spiral rule to use in my photos!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Happy to do it and hope you enjoyed it!

[@donaldgould1293]

,Thanks Mark, I found that very helpful. I will start to use this. I find the rule of thirds useful, but I just seem to have moved to simply looking at an image to see if it was balanced. This will be helpful. Interesting that you say the video was sponsored by Squarespace, but that did not stop an advertisement coming up during the video. Not complaining, just mentioned it. Thanks again.

[@G0FUW]

Interesting analysis Mark. I spent some time studying the work of a famous landscape artist and found he used four 'rules'; rule of thirds, the golden ratio (aka spiral), triangles (as per LR overlay) and what I came to call 'dropped thirds'. I read a book where he shared some of his process and in the example discussed the painter starts with a 3x3 grid and then sketches the scene to fit that grid. He had the skill to be able to select the most appropriate 'rule' for the scene he was painting. The 'dropped third' is an interesting one and it is effectively the rule of thirds but with half of the bottom third cropped out. Once I had figured it out it was clear to see in many of his pictures that did not quite fit any of the 'normal' rules - his shorelines are often below the lower third line, and it works very well, making more of the mid ground and distant subjects. He clearly developed his own 'style' over time. I also found that in his paintbrush he had the ultimate 'Photoshop' tool; if an island did not sit quite where it looked best, he painted it where it did look best, if the lakeshore was not at its best from his viewpoint he painted a different shoreline. One of my favourite pictures of his was found to be a composite of at least three different views, which all exist, but not in one place. You cannot see the join but it does fit the 'rule' that we find so visually appealing.

[@terihooverartandphotography]

Do you have the name of this artist?

[@G0FUW]

W Heaton Cooper

[@m2rer1k]

Great video Mark!👌 I never stop learning.. lol.. I havent use "Golden spiral" so much, I find it not easy to see the golden spiral in view finder, but maybe more easy to play with in lightroom when you can show up the spiral lines over the imagines. But I've been used "Rule of third" and "Golden point" every time since I saw a KZbin video about "Rule of Third" for couple of month ago, I learned that "Golden point" is not "Rule of thirds..!" "Rule of thirds" is that when subject is tall and bigger than half of the frame, - if subject is smaller than half of the frame, then it called "Rule of Golden point". The way to use these 4 point where the Lines of Rule of thirds meets have change the way I shoot my pictures, its more easy to make "leading line" and balance to the image now.😄👌

[@peterjb49]

I love your presentations and your magnificent photos!

[@simonekoffman]

Thank you so much for this Mark. You made it very easy to understand.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Many thanks - I'm glad you think so!

[@donaldkelley5785]

Awesome Video, Mark !!

[@arildthingvoll5967]

Amazing video! I will try The golden spiral on my landscape photos!

[@TylerCampbellOutdoors]

I would still be classified as a beginner and have been using the Rule of Thirds. Interesting concept. Thank you for sharing

[@roccorodriguez6653]

Great video and a great insight into the golden triangle. I recently found your channel and am grateful I did. 👍

[@bassclefjean1]

I was using the golden spiral a while back and this a great reminder to go back to it. Thanks Mark for the reminder. Time to start using it again.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad to do it friend!

[@alang6402]

I think the golden section it works very well for images like paintings that are already literally constructed to exploit it by setting the format of the frame to perfectly match the golden ratio. Such images contain figures or similar point sources of interest, often cast in relation to others that tend to be expressive in themselves. The information viewers need to extract from the image takes up very little area and the artist uses the golden spiral, and many other techniques, to help the viewer navigate the image. For landscape not so much where there are contrasting features that are not in themselves expressive -- there is no allegorical narrative to decode in nature but that is not to say it cannot be dramatic, powerful and moving, or simply comforting. Check Ruskin and the Sublime.

[@PBlair-ns9nn]

Another gem! Thanks Mark!

[@alexk4023]

Most of the time i used the rule thirds, but i definitely gonna try this golden tip! Thankyou😁

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad to do it and thanks for checking it out!

[@TokyoGritandGrain]

I think this hits it spot on, especially at 3:52 - I believe the R3ds is an amazing technique for beginners or for people who may find it difficult to compose shots. I'm all over the place when it comes to how I compose images, but I do adhere to the Golden Ratio often, but there's always that R3ds thought in my mind. It's a push/pull situation, often. What happens is a happy medium without even thinking of it. It takes practice. It takes confidence. Anyway, thanks for the video. Also, it's been great following you on IG. Cheers.

[@Nemanja1995]

Man, this is the best video about photography I have watched In a long time, I usually don't comment on any videos, but jeez I have to on this one, is amazing, thank you so much for this, I am super pumped to try this out on my own work, you bought me with Da Vinci, Picasso story! Cheers! 🙏👋

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

This is great to hear! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@tallaganda83]

I don’t use any rules I just find interesting subjects and then try to find the least distracting way to frame them and then look through the viewfinder and scan the frame from things that don’t feel right. Sometimes I squint my eye a bit so everything just looks like shapes and I guess try to balance shapes and tones.

[@marekfoolforchrist]

you said you didn't use any rules then described the rules you use

[@djmenace954]

I always love using your tips Mark! Your photography is stunning! Have you tried sharing your photos or making a video on the Dayflash app? I’m using it way more then Instagram now! Hope to see you there 🙌🏻

[@pjay3028]

Wow, isn't it amazing that a spiral that you can change completely in terms of it's size, shape, location and orientation can be vaguely fitted over the features in your photographs. Haha

[@andreip9378]

To me it seems like the images that fit the golden spiral rule also fit rule of thirds.

[@AlMacasaet]

Awesome advice, will use this from now on. Also learned that the feature is available in Photoshop. I'm subscribing.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much!

[@JasmineApple]

Great info! I found that my eye started closer to the center of the golden spiral and swept out, rather than starting at the outside and sweeping in. Either way, it made the golden spiral easier to understand & visualize.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much Jasmine!

[@Mrtee1950]

Thanks again for a great video Mark. I have struggled with composition all my photographic life. That is not to say I can't compose my images, I just feel it doesn't come as easy to me as it does to others. I am not sure I agree entirely with your take on the Golden Ratio. I have to be honest is really feel the same way about it as you explained the rule of thirds, you can very much aply to most images if you look hard enough. Like most composition rules, it points to a golden rule. Don't centre important aspects of your image, offsetting something, up, down, left or right works better. Anyway, as always your videos are great, thanks.

[@rezzab]

Thanks for this I’ve been using Lightroom for years and did not know about using the shift key with the Golden Spiral so I never used it, I watched this video a few days ago and of course I’ve been using it, thanks a bunch!

[@clevershades]

If you do have the rule of thirds overlay on your camera you can use that to help with the spiral. Put your interest on one of the intersections, then review the composition to see if it swoops around. Just something I got into the habit of doing shooting macros of flowers and end up applying it to a lot of compositions

[@rickeyysliving444]

Ayeeeeeee NEW ANGLE🤗 I Love It😌 Thx For The Great Content🙏🏽

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks for checking it out Rickey!

[@brianv3742]

Just wanted to say thanks for this video. Just had what I thought was a very disappointing day of shooting, especially after reviewing in post, so to prep for my lack of composition skills for tomorrow's adventure, I found this video...after applying the GS, it made what was thought of as bad shooting day into a pretty good one. Cheers!!

[@trbowlin]

Thanks. I learned a lot in this video.

[@nelsonclub7722]

Wouldn't it be helpful if all camera manufacturers included this overlay like they do the grids!!!! Excellent vid as always

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

That would be amazing! Maybe one day.

[@jimmason8502]

@@MarkDenneyPhoto Mark, it seems like the tight part of that spiral ends up on one of the 1/3 lines intersection points. So The Golden Spiral and Rule of Thirds are not so far off. Plus I've seen quite a few interesting street photographs where the 'no rules" method of composition seems to work well too.

[@JulesMoyaert_photo]

@@MarkDenneyPhoto I believe Olympus OM-Ds have in live view.

[@tungalpilt6307]

As far as I know the rule of thirds is just a simplification of mathematically expressed principles of golden ratio (1:1,61) and Fibonacci sequence (which actually contains golden ratio). If one turns the F. sequence (golden spiral) on the screen, then it can point the same four crossings of horisontal and vertical lines at the distance=1/1,61 from the corner, i.e. golden ratio. Fibonacci introduced his sequence at 1202 AD and the principle of golden ratio was known in India at 200-400 BC. In my opinion the Fibonacci sequence / golden spiral provides more powerful composition.

[@blue_ranger]

The overlay also works in the crop tool on Photoshop and with similar controls (Shift + 0) to cycle through.

[@vilsonrama2595]

This is the best video on KZbin, Mark! Very well done 👏. I like the way how you explain your opinion and I found myself pretty much on it. I'm a graphic designer and I did create fine art using Golden Ratio technique. It's super powerful and gives you a perfect shape. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us and I really enjoyed watching you.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much Vilson!

[@jgreenler]

I love this. Reading some comments about compositional rules being immaterial or that they are meant to be broken and I agree. But I also strongly believe that you need to understand and master the rules as fundamentals before you begin to consciously break them. It's one thing for Ansel Adams to break the rules to create tension. It's another for an amateur like me to think my photos "break the rules" when, in fact, they just might not fundamentally be very good.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Very well said Jeff! Thanks for checking it out!

[@AndyCakebread]

Great style and content Mark 👍 I guess as photographers we 'see' naturally in these compositional guides as we evolve and grow anyway, and also how to break the 'rules'.