What does the Bible say about Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

In this week’s Ask Pastor Mark, he addresses several recent questions about Calvinism and teaches on the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism, the history behind various stances on the topics, and how the Bible, at its core, should be used as the basis of all our belief systems.
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[@mooaaron]

WOW. that was the best explanation of the disposition of systematic theology vs biblical theology I have ever heard.. Thank you Mark

[@michaelbentley-iq1yr]

As someone searching for truth in this fallen world, thank you! We need more folks like you evangelising truth. God bless you and keep you on your mission

[@LarryXLR]

Doctrine is a great book to learn the basics of the faith. I recommend all Christians read Doctrine, New Christian's Handbook and Tactical Guide To The Bible.

[@kentpaulhamus2158]

What does the Bible say about Jesus Christ? PLAN OF SALVATION: Isa. 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return to the LORD, and he (God) will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Joh. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Joh. 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, verily, verily, I say to you, except a man be born again (spiritually made alive), he cannot see the kingdom of god. Joh. 3:16 For God so loved the world (us), that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish (eternal punishment), but have everlasting life (eternal glory with God). Joh. 3:36 He that believes on the Son (Jesus Christ) has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him. Joh. 5:24 Verily, verily, I (Jesus) say to you, He that hears my word, and believes on him (God) that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death (physical) to life (eternal). Joh. 14:6 Jesus said to him (us), I (God the Son) am the way (salvation), the truth (assurance), and the life (eternal): no man comes to the Father (God the Father), but by me. Rom. 10: 9-10 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart man believes to righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made to salvation. Rom. 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Eph. 2:8-9 For by (God's) grace are are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Tit. 3:5-7 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his (God's) mercy he saved us, by the washing (Christ's blood) of regeneration (spiritually made alive), and renewing of the Holy Spirit. Which he (God) shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 1 Joh. 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God has given to us (believers) eternal life, and this life is in his Son (Jesus Christ). He that has the Son has life (eternal); and he that has not the Son of God (does not believe) has not life (eternal). These things have I written to you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe (trust) on the name of the Son of God. Rev. 3:20 Behold, I (Jesus) stand at the door (of your heart), and knock: if any man hear my voice (by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God), and open the door (repentant heart), I will come in to him (salvation), and will sup (reveal the Word of God) with him, and he with me (through prayer).

[@nickrussell8029]

By belief tends to make me an outsider to both theories. I believe if the word of God says it, it must be true and necessary or it wouldnt have been given to us. If the Bible says to do it you better do it to the best of your ability and not argue over why. If your theology tries to discount this or that your beholden to doctrinal groups and not God.

[@Rbl7132]

Hi Nick, For whom did Christ die?

[@dylanmorrison8543]

This makes sense to me Nick. I like it!

[@IronSharpensIron127]

​@@Rbl7132everyone

[@justindarnellfpv]

I loved what you said about our identity in Christ. We are to live from the cross not to it. If God calls us righteous, then all who call the redeemed sinners are wrong. I’m not denying sin, but like you said, it’s our identity that’s important. When you were quoting Genesis 1, you missed the most important part of the passage… verse 26 declares that mankind was given dominion (rule) over His creation. That’s the central theme of all the Bible. Without it you can’t possibly understand our purpose in the kingdom. The whole idea has always been that God rules the world using human beings. It’s Christ in us. Not Christ alone and not us alone. God designed it that way and it’s His plan to multiply His image 😅🥳🔥

[@sweynforkbeardtraindude]

The Bible says NOTHING about Calvinism and Arminisim.

[@Christinme03]

Lol! 😂 correct. Although, I think he meant the theology.

[@sweynforkbeardtraindude]

@@Christinme03 I know, I’m just sick and tired of all the factions in Christianity. I was a reformed Presbyterian, aka Calvinist for 26 years. What a waste of time debating endlessly the differences. Everyone needs to study Scripture, pray, study, pray and the truth will be revealed to them.

[@Adam-ti9vx]

​@sweynforkbeardtraindude I agree with your conclusion. Everyone is responsible for their own foolishness. I would, however disagree that it's a waste of time. I find myself wondering if it may be heresy to teach the wrong theology. Perhaps one is not truly representing the God of the Bible. Perhaps it's not heresy, but simply misleading and a cause for concern. Many have left the faith altogether due to a lack of understanding of their salvation. I can't seem to find a concensus on Arminianism, but if it is to believe that man is the arbiter of his own salvation, that is not the God of the Bible. If Calvanism is to believe that God controls everything at all times, that is also not the God of the Bible. 1 Timothy, Ephesians, 2 Peter, and many other passages speak of a choice made my man, therefore, man has responsibility. Romans speaks highly of God's sovereignty, and Christ himself said the father must draw us, therefore, God must be the one who saves by no power of our own. Reconciling these things must be top priority if one is to teach anything about our salvation. Absent a clear understanding, I believe the best thing to do is to say, "I don't know." Either way you will cause people to leave. At least this way you aren't spreading false doctrine.

[@sweynforkbeardtraindude]

@@Adam-ti9vx True!

[@angloaust1575]

Salvation is given to the elect I was saved before i heard Any sermons Knowledge came later John3v21 Those who do truth come to the light!

[@Alaivh]

the easiest way ive been able to reconcile these 2 extremes is the parable of the mina n talents, cant multiply or hide them without receiving them first from God, n better yet abiding in Christ is what produces fruit John 15 aka carrying the cross of denying self and praying in the Spirit enables God's will Roms 8:27, which is talents, minas, and pruning, to produce multiplication aka fruit, cause someone may be afraid n hide his 1 mina that the other muliplied into 10*

[@tonyattardo2769]

The Great Commission is obviously our primary goal in life. To present the Gospel to everyone and through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit and praying that they respond. The question is this does God independent of our will save us or do we in some way "cooperate" in our salvation. Any careful reading of the Scriptures explains that God independent of our will saves whom He wants whenever He wants how ever He wants. Romans 9 is very clear about how God independent of our will does what He pleases in the affairs of men. We while operating under what is called free will are doing exactly what God has chosen for us to do. One of the primary examples of that is found in Isaiah chapter 10 starting in verse 5. Isaiah states that the king of Assyria is the rod of His anger, the staff in whose hand is "My indignation". The King many times takes credit for his victories while God states that he is doing exactly what God wants him to do. God states "Shall the axe boast itself against Him that hews with it? Then the saw and the Rod in the same exact language. God pronounces judgement on Israel for their sin using a heathen king who is doing exactly what God wants while all time time moving that king to do God's will, then God judges that King for doing exactly what God is moving Him to do to Israel. Using the example of a drowning man is a poor choice.

[@justindarnellfpv]

How do you interpret the word believe? As in John 3:16 or about 10,000 other scriptures as in choose life Deuteronomy, obey (most of the Bible) etc. When you look into Romans 9 you see clearly that not all of the elect (Israel) goes to heaven verses 4-6. Also it’s clear that the “will” of God rarely happens as in 1 Thessalonians 5:18 or 1 Corinthians 1:1 same word for will. God’s will rarely happens because God created man to co rule with God see Genesis 1:26 and Psalm 8. This is not intended to be a complete theology, I’m just trying to get you to see that theistic determinism is not the case for most peoples in most cases. Let me ask this because I got to go… does God cause people to sin?

[@kgar5String]

Jesus did it all, Ephesians.

[@Jeepgirl333]

Thank you

[@Mike-qt7jp]

If everything happens according to God's will as per Calvinism, then a lot of really evil things happen, that God has called sin. This is ridiculous. God tells Adam and Eve, don't eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and yet He has ordained that they will. Calvinism seems to be making God a liar, because He is telling them to not do something that He knows full well (according to Calvinism) that they have no choice but to do. We can go on and on; if God causes everything that happens, He is causing murder, rape, incest, drug use, drunkenness, lying stealing, sexual immorality, false religions, Satan worship, pedophilia, etc. The God of the Bible is love and calls us NOT to do all these things. Why would He turn around and make us do the very same things He tells us not to do? The Calvinist seems to sink on their own idea of the sovereignty of God. They don't seem to be able to acknowledge that God IN HIS SOVEREIGNTY can choose to give us some degree of free will. That's why there are so many scriptures saying "Whosoever will, may..." Scripture clearly gives us a choice. Follow Christ or not. Repent or not. Obey scripture or not. I believe, based on scripture, that God has given us choices with eternal repercussions, Heaven or Hell. That's why Joshua said choose you this day whom you will serve. I can by God's grace and the help of the Holy Spirit say, "As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." By the way, yes, it is true; we can't come to Christ unless the Father draws us, but that says "draws us" not makes us a believer. God opens us up to the Good news and then we either say yes or no.

[@dylanmorrison8543]

HUGE Amen to your comment.

[@dylanmorrison8543]

You're making too much sense.

[@mrgrossism]

You nail it with the Calvinist's misunderstanding of what sovereignty means. To be sovereign means you get the last word. It is not the same as being a control freak.

[@graftme3168]

Jesus said at the end of John 6 the very reason He said that nobody can come to Him unless the Father draws him. He said it was because He knew who did not believe. In other words, He draws everyone to Christ who believes the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and He does not draw those who do not believe. Calvinists seem to miss that part. They ignore it when I point it out.

[@johnkapelac1234]

Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated the Bible says before either were conceived. Does that mean God caused Esau to rebel? No, God is not constricted to time and space. He knew Esau’s heart before eternity but he isn’t a liar. Why would God give us the 10 commandments if he knew we wouldn’t keep them. God isn’t causing us or making us sin, that isn’t the point of Calvinism at all. We aren’t his puppet… He gave us free will to choose. The Aroma of a Christian smells like life to those that believe and death to those that don’t. Go knew Judas would betray Jesus, but he didn’t make him do it. Is Judas in heaven because he did Gods will? Or in hell, like we all deserve as we all fall short. The question of Calvinism is did God already know. Of course, He is all places and at all times. Are we still responsible for our sins, of course, but we aren’t responsible for Gods gift He freely gave to us when we were unrighteous. Abraham was given the promise before he was righteous. That’s my understanding

[@ianjohnson4987]

Excellent teaching. Thank you

[@JeremiahScavo]

Ok it got so long. Does he believe in election or the foreknowledgy version of election?

[@reylambarte5615]

This preacher do not believe the election of God, but Jesus explained how God created men and clearly explained how two kinds of human beings populated the earth in mat 13:24-50.

[@robertgilberthorpe7164]

Thank you very much please listen to paul washer

[@YIO777]

Why?

[@johncollier3175]

If God , willing that none should perish, has had His willingness made of no effect, by a weak sinner with a weak and sickly will, what kind of God is He? How has your freewill served you ? Why does God do this : JOH12.40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. " if He wants "all" to be saved ? If Jesus is willing to save "all", like His Father, why did He use parables here in MAR4.11 "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: MAR4.12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them." He blocked them from receiving the truth. Why would we try to explain it away when it is plainly put ? Why did Jesus appear to paul and not his companions, when on the road to kill more christians ? What about Pauls freewill ? Did God not want to over ride the free will of Pauls companions ? If God, willing to save all, appears to Paul in a very radical way, thwarting Pauls pathetic will, which at the time was set on killing christians, why dont God appear to "all" in some way, to save them ? Pauls doctrines line up with the stories all through the bible, which show God's choice to save or condemn. Arguing over the word "all" is not the right way. God is sovereign. He has mercy on those He wants to save. Solomon knew that you come up against the infinite God whose ways are past finding out when He brings you far enough to see the boundaries between the finite and the infinite : ECC11.5 "As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all." There is danger in false doctrine, and what the Lord has revealed of Himself we should take at face value.

[@timothyrogers1964]

The difference between Calvin and Arminius is like the difference between Obama and Hillary. Tiny points, but in the same party. The real debate is between Calvinism and the Bible. Calvinism is just gnostic philosophy mixed with some Christian lingo. Calvinism is akin to Hinduism. Steer clear of it!

[@Rbl7132]

He said "Christ died for our sins".... Mark, whose sins? Who is. "our"? When the Apostle Paul said Christ "died for our sins", he was speaking to believers. He was not speaking to the entire world....

[@dylanmorrison8543]

He died for everyone to have the chance. Anyone who is willing to pick up their cross and also finish the race will be forgiven and washed clean. People have free will. People can lose their salvations. People can be wishy washy. That's the seed in shallow soil. Some people will persevere. Only some. The gate is narrow and few will enter. That is why we should be highly motivated to repent and obey. Obsessing over works vs. faith and Armenian vs. Calvin is all distracting from truly following Jesus Christ. We need to repent and have the fear of the one who can condemn us to the second death. The truth is simple. Calvin and Armenius muddied the waters.

[@Rbl7132]

@@dylanmorrison8543 so is the decision to Believe In Christ the exact same difficulty for everyone? Because it has to be exactly the same for it to be fair.

[@Rbl7132]

@@dylanmorrison8543 people can lose their salvation? That means that Jesus was lying? You recommend I don't believe in him when he says that I have everlasting life? And that I shall not come into condemnation? I should just reject that and believe you?

[@dylanmorrison8543]

@@Rbl7132 The decision to believe and also accept his forgiveness is the same, but following Him will look different for each person and present trials with varying levels of difficulty to overcome. But God won't let us be tempted beyond what each of us is able to handle.

[@dylanmorrison8543]

@@Rbl7132 Yes I recommend that you fully believe that with your whole being. But do not use it as a means to get comfy. That would be abusing grace. Why would God give warnings throughout the Bible of what to avoid, of how to behave, of certain pitfalls to be on the lookout for. And why would He urge the Ephesus Church to return to their first love if they were not in danger of losing their salvation?

[@orneryvarmint608]

Matthew 18:6

[@johnloftin2461]

The one thing I've learned in respect to election, predestination, sovereignty, etc, is that it really doesn't matter which position people take. To pick any one position means that you are paying attention only to the agreeing passages while excluding all the contradictions. When I discovered the passages related to this doctrine I knew nothing of Calvin. Romans 9 was like a bomb going off to a 15 year old kid who was evangelized by John 3:16. Calvinism is a very distasteful collection of beliefs in a horribly arbitrary and fatalistic. God. This is not the same god as Armenians or any other view. This is why Calvinists are normally arrogant. Their beliefs are much more severe than the average Protestant. In the end, both views are false. We can pray and argue about this subject from now until the cows go home, but they can't be reconciled. If they could, it would have happened. I only look at this stuff cause I'm no longer a christian and old habits die hard. God is indeed the author of confusion. If he wasn't, the church wouldn't look so silly. I did learn a few things from you in this so thanks for the program, but I looked at this stuff for so long it's hard not to seek this subject out. It's amazing that no one in the Southern Baptist churches I attended knew anything at all about this subject.

[@YIO777]

Calinism vs. Armenianism is a false dichotomy. You're right about Calvinism and Calvinists, but I don't know nearly as much about Armenianism, but it is also built on a false interpretation of Scripture. Sorry to hear that you've left the church, but is God the author of confusion or is it demons and man in a corrupt, weak state that allowed or promoted evil? I see so many more knowledgeable, wise, decent teachers and followers now than ever. Sure, there's still a lot of bad, but we are told so, why, and what to do. We need thinkers like you, but we also need doers. Is there something else that's holding you back?

[@johnloftin2461]

The bible is full of other contradictions and textual issues. My problem isn't so much Calvinism/ Arminianism, but rather the fact that the bible is not a consistent book. I can't trust it. Everyone has an interpretation. The only difference between everyone's interpretations is they all think their personal interpretation is right. Who's to say who's right when a consistent picture can't be found in that book? My short answer is , "God is the author of confusion" if he's real. " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Is 45: 7. Everyone has an interpretation.@@YIO777

[@WeekendWarriorMX-ATV]

@@johnloftin2461I really relate too you on the view of Calvinism and Arminianism I’ve struggled with exactly what you were talking about on how this only brings confusion and there seem like there will never be a solution between them and a safe seat to sit in when there so much dissemination and contention however I wouldn’t say God is the Author of Confusion I’d say we are.

[@johnloftin2461]

He created us. He is the author of every good and evil thing we do. That is of course if he's real, but he's not. He wrote the bible according to most professing christians. He also wrote every contradiction found within the scriptures if you believe in Orthodox belief (the general beliefs that are non negotiable for christians- also called dogma). The whole Calvinist debacle is still an issue for me sometimes, but it's easiest for me to put it in the list of all other contradictions. When you see the bible that way, all the problems in scripture accumulate quickly. These are problems not much discussed in church. It's generally glazed over by the Pastor in the interest of time and most of the people in the sanctuary not wanting to deal with these issues. I guarantee you that if biblical literacy rises in the church you'll see another mass exodus of people. In a way it sucks because I liked the sense of community in my churches, but that community can't sustain me through trials in life and issues with the bible. I found quickly that churches want normal christianity. The kind that lets out at 11:55 on Sunday morning to miss the line at lunch. This shallow type of church environment is dangerous in my opinion.@@WeekendWarriorMX-ATV

[@mountaingirl8124]

Reformed Theology and Calvinism have gotten WAY out of hand. Listeners would be better off listening to Dr. Andy Woods’ Ever Reforming.

[@jakesarms8996]

Weak

[@chrisburton8079]

Says the man who is unrepentant and unfit to be a pastor for that reason

[@respectingthewordpodcast]

I was wondering this also.

[@MindBlowingFacts-Tee]

If Calvinism is true, why does the Bible teach ‘repent or perish’ when the non elect cannot repent and the elect can’t perish? Calvinism makes no sense.

[@YIO777]

Unrepentant of...?