Apple Music lossless and Spatial Audio - 5 months later | Mark Ellis Reviews

[@MarkEllisReviews]

I'm curious. Who likes Spatial Audio when it comes to music? And why do you think Apple is pushing it so much?

[@Radhaugo108]

It’s a battle of LDAC vs AAC. The problem is that LDAC is Android and most phones except for the LG v50/60 (LG doesn’t make phones anymore) had a built it DAC that could push LDAC beyond 24-48khz. AAC and iPhones are also limited to 24-48khz natively (something I noticed was that with the XM4’s iPhone limita Bluetooth to 24-44.1Khz while they AP Max’s are allowed to access the iPhones full 24-48khz) The one advantage that XM4’s could have is that they work ON and Wired potentially unlocking its full potential when plugged in to a proper DAC that is able to access frequencies beyond 48khz. If you actually manage to read this comment, have you thought of doing a battle of APM ve XM4 Wired to a DAC? Although I wonder if lightning limits audio vs a traditional 3.5 Jack. Thanks!

[@terry.8309]

Of no use to me i’ve had many years without these gimmicks i don’t need them

[@Natan9000]

It’s future proofing and being “pioneer” on the Dolby atmos music as now not much music is mastered/mixed in atmos but in the future it may become more general. Edit: also it’s the quality of the master/mix which makes of breaks the sound quality of music. So that might become better in the future too, as stereo is now the “benchmark”.

[@travisslade]

I think they are pushing it because eventually they will use spatial audio in their AR experiences.

[@mikem2k6]

I don’t know how long it is already available, but I just found out that you can now turn the Spatial Audio to „fixed“ (accessible for example when you long-press the volume bar from the drop-down). Way better now for music. I hated it too for music in the original implementation.

[@abpdev]

Spatial audio with tracking fixed for music is amazing. It really puts you in the centre and it just makes sense. It’s one of those things were I can’t explain much but when listening to a song like I feel It coming by the weekend, it really adds an extra layer of enjoyment, makes me want to dance every time cause it’s like I’m at this stage with speakers pointed at me.

[@QFXmusic]

As music producer i can tell you that dolby atmos is the future of music and many studios are now being built this way.. My new studio which i am building is dolby Atmos and pretty much every major studio i know is going this way.. I believe that its still very early days but its going to make a massive difference once people can have Dolby Atmos in there homes for little money... As for spacial audio i use a plugin in the studio for mixing on head phones by waves which makes you feel like you are listening to speakers rather than headphones and its superb especially with my hedd head phones. A great mixing tool and great way of feeling like you are in different mixing studio. Great review.

[@belakfan3]

I think I'm the odd one...or maybe just an Apple sheep lmao, but I actually really like spatial audio with head tracking on Apple Music! I can't quite explain it...but the best I can do is say that I enjoy the perceived immersiveness of the sound. When I've listened to Stay featuring Justin Bieber, the way they play with the vocals to make it sound like the two are singing into one microphone from opposite sides while also sometimes sounding from behind me...super neat!

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Cool - genuinely glad you like it :)

[@jakemana]

I can’t go back… I love spatial audio ^^

[@mcnaugha]

I’ve just tried Sony 360 audio and it was terrible. I haven’t heard much of a difference from Apple Spatial or DA… not sure if the only real way to experience it is with AirPods so you’ve got the gyro support. If the Sony WF-XM4’s have gyros for their 360… they need to open it up to allow Apple’s.

[@Tame.Nation]

I only listen to music in spatial audio. I use spatial audio with no head tracking 70% of the time and with head tracking turned on the other 30%.

[@cristibaluta]

Same, bass is worse but overall experience is nicer. Can't go back to stereo now. The new macs have it too now. The most effective song to hear might be Riders on the Storm.

[@charliesmaker]

I've never heard this take on spatial audio before! I'm absolutely obsessed with it for everything. For dance music in particular I end up dancing alone in my room quite frequently and I really think it's a testament to feeling like you're at a show.

[@geeyowthe1]

I use my iPhone hooked up to my iFi HipDAC + AKG 361. I ditched my Spotify subscription right away. That Hi-Res Lossless experience is incredible. I heard a bunch of details that I haven't heard before from songs that I thought I already knew by heart. You really gotta invest in audio gear to take full advantage of the lossless features. If you're just gonna use bluetooth headphones, you won't really hear that much of a difference because of bluetooth's limitations, as Apple devices only support AAC codec for BT audio. As for spatial audio, I agree with most people that it's really not that good. Hi-Res Lossless is where all the goodies are at. The only downside for Apple Music, I would say, is that it doesn't have a native Windows app that supports bit-perfect playback. I am an avid Android user, and I bought my first iPhone just because of Apple Music. The Apple Music app supports bit-perfect playback when using an iPhone or an iPad, meaning you don't lose any details when your DAC receives the audio file, something that the Android system doesn't support with the native Apple Music app. Bit-perfect on Android does work with Tidal though.

[@rags015]

Neither the airpods max nor the bose qc45 support lossless audio not even in wired mode! Sony XM4 supports only LDAC which is it’s own proprietary format. For lossless, wired headphones alone work like your HD 560s and Beyerdynamic headphones. Also more expensive dacs and amps like iFi DSD will work just as well with entry level audiophile headphones! Cheers!

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Yup. Most of which is explained in my video 😉

[@rags015]

@@MarkEllisReviews Yes, you do explain it! I missed it the first time and so I watched the video again. Great video!

[@shawnswinney8539]

I have played with these options a great deal. Dolby Atmos can sound the best depending on how it is mastered. Generally on the AirPods Max the volume is lower to give it more dynamic range and sometimes greater bass. Lossless with iFi Hip Dac and HD700 sounds better than the AirPods Max, but the improvement is not as dramatic as when comparing to other headphones. Spacial audio I like on some tracks so long as it doesn’t feel overdone. I used ‘fixed’ as I don’t want to ruin the full sound from it being balanced across both sides. AirPods Max can sound better than the audiophile setup with the right Dolby Atmos track, but this is rare. It is, however, nice to not mess with cables, etc. Overall I like having these various options to play with!

[@jimbob2427]

I’m pretty sure Dolby works on anything. My AirPods 2nd gen does and yet it is advertised with no spatial audio

[@PaulMcElligott]

My experience with spatial audio is that is works better for some kinds of music than others. For example, listening to some instrumental jazz in spatial audio gives a nicely intimate feeling of being in a small room with the combo, but a good stereo mix accomplishes much the same thing. In other words, spatial audio doesn’t hurt, but it doesn’t add much either. On rock music, one band I like mixed their new album in spatial audio, and it mostly serves to create a sense of distance between myself and the music, instead of it being inside my head where it should be, diluting the impact. I’ve also listened to a couple songs I thought could benefit from spatial, namely “A Day in the Life” and “Bohemian Rhapsody.” I was underwhelmed. It wasn’t bad, but it didn’t add anything to the already excellent stereo mixes on those songs.

[@Ben-yz4jh]

I am glad you made this.. I have been listening to spatial audio on Apple Music for a bit and there are times where I've thought 'I should really like this but actually I really don't'. I find it tiring to listen to somehow and the vast majority of the time I think it negatively impacts the sound stage of a song rather than improving it. Perhaps it will improve over time..

[@brianlucey832]

Understood. See my reply at the top on Atmos

[@zoestertoaster27]

Apple devices are only capable of outputting 256kbps over bluetooth. So if you are connecting the Bose or Sony’s wirelessly to run this test, you won’t hear any difference, as the phone/Mac will only output at non-lossless, regardless of your settings. Apple connects with its AirPod products using the “W” chip, which is a proprietary connection that allows Apple lossless data transfer (on AirPods 3, Pro & Max models) Connecting a pair of wired headphones will utilize the device’s onboard DAC, the DAC inside the lightning to 3.5mm dongle, or (as you were using) a dedicated external DAC, which will all allow you to hear the lossless codec, be it at varying levels of quality depending on the DAC.

[@kaysule]

I agree with you that lossless sounds a bit louder over Bluetooth on the airpodsmax . Louder and a tad bit clearer so I love that . I stopped downloading any music that isn’t lossless on my phone . Airpodsmax is just way too good and I believe Apple will still keep updating this beauty of a tech for more support . Great video sir !!

[@mr.persuasion4571]

Do you use an external DAC? I plan on picking up a pair of AirPods max in a couple weeks and most of my music have the lossless symbol by them. I used a pair of Bose QC and a open back pair of Sennheisers as well. I want to get the most out of the AirPods Max

[@kaysule]

@@mr.persuasion4571 no I don’t . Lol

[@kaysule]

@@mr.persuasion4571 go for it !! Never tried the bose but I love this max

[@DanielLundh]

Spatial Audio does _something_ to the music. It sometimes works but mostly doesn't. But at least there's a clear difference between it and regular old stereo. With "lossless", well, let's just say Apple got that one right, noone should pay extra for that placebo. I've sat through FLAC, ALAC, DSD and running it through DACs and HPAs and the only real difference I hear is if I switch headphones. And there I find it true so far that the more you pay for headphones the better they sound. There are just very, very, very few people who can actually tell the difference between a lossy 320kbps MP3 or lossy MQA and something lossless in premium formats like DSD1024 or 768khz/32bit FLAC.

[@achilochus]

I could not use my iPhone to distinguish mqa from Tidal and m4a from Music app.. unless using my wire headphone from iMac, in Pine Play instead of the music app. I am not sure if alac works better than mqa because I could not distinguish that either. I do find technically mqa (or Flac if using Tidal download helper) provides better resolution than m4a, but I need to increase the volume and focus on the music itself... In the most time I don't do that unless I am relaxing. However in that case I would use my HomePod but unfortunately it does not support Tidal 🤷‍♂️

[@brianlucey832]

Atmos is superior to stereo, when done right, as there is a real center image. Stereo has no phantom center, and it's really a bad approximation of speakers in a room. We are in the early days of the format vs 60 years in stereo, so patience is needed. Not much mastering is happening, and Atmos is only mastered with analog by yours truly. Listen to: Lizzo (new and all), Post Malone (Twelve carat toothache), Cordae (From a Birds Eye View), The Greatest Showman Soundtrack, Twenty One Pilots VESSEL, Pharrell No Mas single

[@ScottJamesIrvine]

On the latest version of iOS if you go into spacial audio it now has a 'Fixed' setting so it doesn't do that annoying head tracking with music

[@BlizzardWind99]

so it would work like dolby surround sound?

[@CharlesSeraphDrums]

The AirPods Max don’t resolve lossless or hi fi codecs, even if you plug them in. These codecs are only available through a DAC that can handle DSD at least at 64 bit and 384 khz. The 560S is a bit of an analytical headphone, not as warm or spatial as the 579 and 599. Thing with all lossless audio is that you require an analog signal, and bluetooth is digital.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Yup, you’re spot on!

[@ProductivePM]

Mark, you lead me down the audiophile path many months ago when you first spoke of the iFi Zen Dac. Sice then I have purchased the Drop HD6XX Headphones, the signature series iFi Zen Dac and iFi Signature Headphone amp, an Audio Technica turntable with Ortofon cartridge, iFi Phono Amp,a Sony CD player that plays and stores 300 CD as a transport with a Schiit Dac and Audioengine HD4 speakers for my desk with a Klipsh 10" subwoofer. So I do appreciate the beautiful HiRes music that I hear. The decay of a cymbal being hit or the depth of a standup Bass or the beauty of vocals. I thank you!

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Wow, I've made you spend some serious money! Glad you're enjoying it :)

[@ProductivePM]

@@MarkEllisReviews keep up the great work with the Medium articles (one of my favorite authors on that platform) and the great KZbin work. Your professionalism shines . . . All the Best!

[@MarkEllisReviews]

@@ProductivePM You are too kind, Greg - thank you!

[@charlesludwig9173]

Seems like Spatial Audio and Lossless in your mind is a headphone thing. I appraise these concepts applied to home speakers and the bottom line is it requires an external DAC for hi-res entertainment and Apple TV for Spatial Audio pleasure via a home theater system. I love surround sound for music in the manner of 5.1 SACDs snd my hope is Apple’s Spatial Audio will expand the very limited 5.1 SACD offerings.

[@jaredfranklin]

I agree that spatial audio can be crap a lot of the time, but trust me there are some songs that are beautiful with atmos! 🤩

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Which ones? I’m genuinely interested.

[@jaredfranklin]

@@MarkEllisReviews wow by Post malone, supersonic by shrillex, BOOM by Tiesto, When doves cry by prince, drive by rem!!!

[@혜성지기]

@@MarkEllisReviews Maroon 5 - She will be loved

[@paulabevan]

The Beatles album Abbey Road sounds fantastic in Dolby Atmos, but like you said some of the stuff I have tried sondes very thin

[@DarkFire515]

My experience of spatial audio / Atmos: on tracks that were mastered with and for it, it can sound amazing. On tracks where it was lazily added-in as an afterthought it often sounds horrible. There are a few contrary examples on both sides but in general that’s been my experience. As for high res, I think Apple did a great thing by essentially making CD quality the default setting.

[@BobTheWhiteBoy]

Interesting... is there a way to see if the track was originally mastered for Spatial Audio / Atmos?

[@DarkFire515]

@@BobTheWhiteBoy not that I’ve been able to find. New musing that’s mastered in atmos tends to be designed for it but the old stuff is very hit and miss.

[@brianlucey832]

Check my reply on Atmos above.

[@oluwatobiogundele218]

I think spatial audio is good for music in the sense that some songs deliberately move things from one ear to another and those songs will sound much better with spatial audio being used. I think each song just has a particular setting that brings the best out of it

[@GG-zv9ku]

Dolby atmos. Set to “Fixed” in setting is better that the spatial mode. Also is better on tracks that where mixed specifically for Atmos. Also mix engineers need some time get better at it. I experienced some poor albums but some really good ones too

[@brianlucey832]

Atmos is superior to stereo, when done right, as there is a real center image. Stereo has no phantom center, and it's really a bad approximation of speakers in a room. We are in the early days of the format vs 60 years in stereo, so patience is needed. Not much mastering is happening, and Atmos is only mastered with analog by yours truly. Listen to: Lizzo (new and all), Post Malone (Twelve carat toothache), Cordae (From a Birds Eye View), The Greatest Showman Soundtrack, Twenty One Pilots VESSEL, Pharrell No Mas single

[@bubblebubble50]

Now you can choose the option of Spatial Audio without headtracking with Airpods Max when using Apple Music though

[@rockstar6790]

I owned an AirPods Pro and I don't enjoy Spatial Audio. It's disorientating and can get annoying. Also, Dolby Atmos makes the music sound worse because it sounds like it came from far away and had the volume level turned down. I just turn both of them off. Like you mentioned, when hearing music with either earbuds or headphones, you want the sound to have balance when hearing it and it's true. The only positive is that you don't have to pay extra. Personally Spatial Audio and Dolby Atmos only works best if you are using a home theatre system with surround sound.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

I do need to give it more of a trial on my home theatre system.

[@brianlucey832]

Atmos is superior to stereo, when done right, as there is a real center image. Stereo has no phantom center, and it's really a bad approximation of speakers in a room. We are in the early days of the format vs 60 years in stereo, so patience is needed. Not much mastering is happening, and Atmos is only mastered with analog by yours truly. Listen to: Lizzo (new and all), Post Malone (Twelve carat toothache), Cordae (From a Birds Eye View), The Greatest Showman Soundtrack, Twenty One Pilots VESSEL, Pharrell No Mas single

[@mistymu8154]

When Spatial Audio first came out I was a bit meh and some tracks just sounded worse with the vocals being buried and lost in the mix and guitars sounding terrible, resulting in a finished product worse than the stereo mix, so I ended up turning it off. Just recently I have turned it back on and I actually think it has improved a lot. There are now a lot of newer tracks and albums coming out with Spatial / Dolby Atmos. It feels like with any new technology in music, engineers are only just learning what does and doesn't work, plus there were probably a bunch of old albums rushed out, fed through some software just to get it on the Apple Music playlists and feed the algorithm to get more plays. However, most the stuff I am listening to now in Atmos sounds great, none of it seems over the top. It is good to see artists / labels really embracing this technology. People will say, we have had surround sound music for ages. But that never really took off because you didn't have 100s of millions of devices out there that are capable of playing Atmos, from Apple devices to Android devices. I think Apple is pushing it so hard because it is a differentiator from Spotify, because let's be honest, most people either don't care or can't hear the difference from a lossy AAC to a Lossless / Hi-Res ALAC, but they can hear the difference in a Dolby Atmos mix through their bluetooth AirPods.

[@brianlucey832]

Atmos is superior to stereo, when done right, as there is a real center image. Stereo has no phantom center, and it's really a bad approximation of speakers in a room. We are in the early days of the format vs 60 years in stereo, so patience is needed. Not much mastering is happening, and Atmos is only mastered with analog by yours truly. Listen to: Lizzo (new and all), Post Malone (Twelve carat toothache), Cordae (From a Birds Eye View), The Greatest Showman Soundtrack, Twenty One Pilots VESSEL, Pharrell No Mas single

[@sjie1874]

I also recommend a lot for ATMOS albums like Lorde’s “pure heroine” and “ melodrama” Also Dua Lipas “ Future nostalgia”

[@phranky11]

As a musician and filmmaker I appreciate it new audio tech but I have an ear that is more trained so I appreciate these initial steps. And yes you need a DAC (love my ifi Zen DAC) and some possibly open type cans. A program in Spatial Audio will get better as producers and engineers figure out how to really use it. I’m old enough to remember when stereo initially was released. Vocals on one channel, music on the other. This was so when it was mixed to mono, there was less blood (vocals would definitely have a different sound than the rhythm). The new set looks great and feels less claustrophobic, BTW.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Thanks, Frank!

[@brianlucey832]

Atmos is superior to stereo, when done right, as there is a real center image. Stereo has no phantom center, and it's really a bad approximation of speakers in a room. We are in the early days of the format vs 60 years in stereo, so patience is needed. Not much mastering is happening, and Atmos is only mastered with analog by yours truly. Listen to: Lizzo (new and all), Post Malone (Twelve carat toothache), Cordae (From a Birds Eye View), The Greatest Showman Soundtrack, Twenty One Pilots VESSEL, Pharrell No Mas single

[@MobileDecay]

I agree. Spatial audio ruins music. I do like Atmos but the spacial audio is horrible. I'm using it on Amazon HD and you can't turn them off independently from each other. It's all or nothing.

[@jameslenney]

The issue with lossless, is that the sample rate can be however high you want - Tidal had the same problem in that the way the high res recording is supplied in the first place dictates how it sounds. I listen to apple lossless with an outstanding wired pair of headphones, really flat sound. But each track sounds fundamentally different due to the variables with each track/recording - some tracks sound amazing. I’m not a fan of Dolby Atmos but I can see why some people might like it.

[@achilochus]

Thank you Mark for this detailed review. What I am feeling curious is apple seems to design Spatial Audio to mimic the theatre experience.. why does the sound change when you keep your head still and iPhone moved? It should be remaining the same and the sound should only change when you move your head regardless the iPhone or any other devices.

[@travisslade]

I agree! After 5-8 seconds, the center point shifts to wherever your head is facing. I wish it wouldn’t do that!

[@TG60series]

Would love you to do a similar test using Tidal v Apple, on air max pros. I think Tidal is materially better - but I could be falling prey to a massive placebo effect!

[@FlintBits]

Tidal is lossy and Apple is as they say, lossless.

[@willierevilla4217]

In regards to Spatial Audio and Dolby Atmos, I also noticed that the sound on songs that were remaster to Spatial do sound a bit strange where the base or some instruments are kind of low or even missing. However, if you play Spatial music that it was originally recorded in Spatial then MAGIC occurs, and I believe one of this examples might be with one of the latest album from The Weeknd. Cheers!

[@paulabevan]

There’s one thing I have Definitely noticed if you like classical music I must say Apple have just upped their game big time , I know there bought a classical music app that was very good in it’s own way

[@mumbakarma3675]

And the classical app is in the store now

[@AshChapman777]

Hi Mark, its not just you who finds Apple music sounding louder on the AirPods Max. When I try the AirPods Max on Spotify I find myself need more volume to match the same levels as Apple music.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

That’s reassuring to hear!

[@Augusto0926]

Idk man he’s calling settings issue as if they can’t be turned off. You can choose between head tracked and stationary versions of Dolby Atmos so when you put the phone down it won’t track your head. Very simple fix. The sound is hit or miss depending on the song and the EQ your music is set to in the settings. I love these features and it all came at no additional cost!

[@corbinduncan1272]

a pair of grado’s and a btr5 would be my entry reccomedation instead. it’s fantastic sound at almost half the price

[@gorringeman]

I'll say this.. I'm 55 years old, I have high end stereo system, my amp is a Sugden (British made) from 1982. I also have Sonos speakers that I've bought for home cinema. I do use it for music too, although it's nowhere near as detailed as my HiFi but still very passable. But I'll say this and it's where I am right now, I've spent half a century with stereo music coming straight at me, I enjoy that, it's the norm. So i will judge anything new with a very critical ear, I'm not sure I want music surrounding me as the Sonos does, horses for courses?

[@yvesn58]

First off, congrats for your high quality 4k video ! The difference with audio 1080p is stunning. On your content, I wonder what would be your conclusions with testing computer speakers or hifi speakers instead of headphones. Namely, I ask myself if a DAC would improve my audio experience using computer speakers. The link for ifi DAC is a different model from yours, I believe.

[@seboll13]

If you disable the head tracking option (which is utterly useless for music I agree), the experience becomes actually quite decent for some good mixed musics out there. However right now, most of the dolby atmos musics are not worth listening to with spatial audio activated, I agree. Hopefully, experience will get better with years :P Great video though, thanks for sharing !

[@JoePrettner]

Mixed emotions with Apple Music, not a fan of Dolby Atmos, when using a Fiio DAC on the phone sometimes get changes in sound, eq and volume in a middle of a song, randomly and don’t have a clue, the phone EQ settings are limited, by the other hand in a Apple Desktop using a Topping DAC, the music App (AKA iTunes) don’t have the capability to automatically change the quality according to the song is playing back so there is not the same experience using local files in apps like Jriver or Swingsian

[@6643bear]

Hi mark , great interesting video, I just ordered ifi zen hoping I get a good output in audio , I do have a few headphones to try sennheiser hd575 , hd485 momentum 2.0 , denon ahd320 and others to see if I get better quality audio. Regards mark

[@chironjo]

So, lossless music is no advantage if you have L+R+ Centerchannel set up?

[@mikereed4431]

I'm getting some airpods Max and I was wondering if a dragon fly black Dac will work

[@alyoshapearce5985]

Are you listening in Bluetooth because it recompress the file. It’s like taking a 4K television and playing back a 180p video recording it on your 4K phone and playing it back on the 4K television again. It’s not longer lossless when you listen using Bluetooth. Ok you answered the question I commented a bit to early.

[@ntmatias]

Yes, I like listening music in Spatial Audio (new music) . I don't like spatial audio in old music with a new mix. For example: Eric Clapton, the lady in the balcony, sounds great. Extraordinary detail in the guitar sound.

[@warrentaylor5131]

Thank you, great video

[@pritamvaishnav1250]

Hi Is it support all special audio and head traking in sennhiser momentum 4 ? Please advise me I m confused to which earbuds should I buy.

[@piko3058]

Is it possible if; for example. I open Apple Music on PC. But i can play/pause from the phone. Does it sync the queues?

[@bubblebubble50]

Can Mac let you play Spatial Audio on Airpods Max? Mines are up to date and yet my MacBook says Spatial Audio is not available on Airpods Max for no reason 😢

[@javtimestwo]

Another fantastic video and I am learning so much. Not that I am audiophile and not really interested in becoming one either. I really want to understand Apple Music and the quality of music they are giving to their customers. From what I have learned-there is no bluetooth earbuds that are going to provide hi-res lossless. Is that correct? Which leads me to my question-can the Apple Earbuds with the 3.5mm plus listen to hi-res lossless while connected to an iPhone or MacBook Air?

[@CoastersandPop]

I’ve turned spatial audio off, it doesn’t work well for me on headphones, it drops all eq from audio and sounds flat, however it sounds better through an Apple TV connected to a good home cinema

[@taitlawrence]

I got my headphones today. I thought there was something wrong with them as spatial audio seemed to make the songs sound worse to me too, I thought from reviews this was supposed to be the best thing about them. So is your recommendation for best sound listening wirelessly from Apple Music having spatial off completely ? Also when I have them on normal setting and not noise cancelling or transparent that’s when I actually hear some weird noise, is that normal ?

[@MarkEllisReviews]

I think music is better without Spatial, personally, but it really is a personal thing ;)

[@taitlawrence]

@@MarkEllisReviews I don’t do videos but I think I’m going to make one for these. I have too many questions. One thing I have noticed is the sound from Deezer is much better than Apple Music. I got a subscription free with a car a few years ago and I switched from Spotify and been using it since, I’m about to get Amazon HD too, I haven’t tried that yet.

[@taitlawrence]

@@MarkEllisReviews Hi Mark, help me out. I’m very clearly no audiophile but I want to hear music in the best quality possible. To do this using my air pods do I need to go lighting to 3.5 audio cable ( the £35 one ) from the pods then the regular lighting to headphone adapter to connect that to the phone or do I need a fancy one for that too? Cheers.

[@joshuanesbit]

Is if possible to have the downloads set to high quality but when I’m on wifi for it to play lossless?

[@hhhkoijhygjohdt3293]

Hi great video can i use the edifer R1855DB speakers to listen to losless music or are the edifer R1855DB not hifi speakers? Hope to hear from you soon

[@ramishkhan1862]

Loved your calm tone which is not alike some on your face youtubers

[@MarkEllisReviews]

That's a lovely thing to say - thanks!

[@cristibaluta]

I noticed the worse sound quality on spatial audio but i love how the sound moves, overall it worths the trade to me, ipods pro which i use are not the greatest to begin with anyway. Probably the best song to try is Riders on the Storm, i was really confused at first where the sound comes from, i was in front of the computer and thought is coming from there.

[@daveryandub]

I bought that ifi dac when apple brought out lossless.worth every cent! Love it

[@travisslade]

Yeah, Born This Way definitely has a bad Dolby Digital mix. I think moving forward there will be more time put into good mixing. Taylor Swift’s Red Album is one of the best experiences with spatial that I’ve heard so far. Specifically Sad Beautiful Tragic. You can turn your head and clearly listen to the harmonies. Her Evermore and Folklore albums are also really great. Maybe it’s a better experience with less things going on in the song. Thanks for your great review.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Thanks for the kind words, Travis. I'm sure things will get better in time. I'm just not convinced that the gimmickiness of it will...

[@travisslade]

@@MarkEllisReviews Well, that’s just it. I don’t think it’s a gimmick. After finding good mixes such as Taylor Swifts latest albums, Exile (feat. Bon Iver) is another great example, I feel like I’m standing in the middle of so many layers, I hear something new each time I turn my head, instead of everything sound like it’s coming from between my ears (Stereo Mode). I think this will even be great for recorded live performances, Death by a Thousand Cuts (Live in Paris) for example. You can still hear the crowd, while the artist stay in the same place. Lastly, Head Tracking doesn’t make sense unless you’re sitting down specifically to listen to music, but I hope it only gets better and better.

[@nateb9768]

That pair of Grados totally remind me of my Sennheiser HD 424's. Classic 70's styling.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Great styling, isn't it?!

[@nateb9768]

@@MarkEllisReviews I feel almost guilty when I use my Senn’s since I feel like they should be in a museum!

[@BigBooUK]

So far I’m rather enjoying spatial audio on my AirPods Max but, as you point out, there are some tracks that just don’t work - you know them when you hear them :-) I read somewhere that quite a lot of albums are already being re-mixed now that the sound engineers have had a chance to listen to feedback from the initial mix and learn more about the technology. I guess it’s a learning process all round. Really loving it for films and telly through the headphones, though.

[@Dando-1983]

What about Apple Lossless on Sonos? I’ve just taken Apple Music lossless trial and looking forward to trying on my Sonos set up.. I agree 100% with Spatial Audio I can’t get on with it 🤣😂

[@daryldraws8083]

Spatial Audio will only be Truly appreciated for it's worth when artists start to adapt how they record their music for it, leaving behind the stereo standard for good. Those 7.1 channels should be utilized in the recording accordingly in a new recording and not stretching 2 stereo channels to sound like they are "around" you like what they do to Pre-Spatial Audio music. And I doubt they will actually adapt to it anytime soon, simply because the majority of consumers have only stereo speakers at home and on their phones, and a Dolby sounding song will only sound quieter when played in just 2 stereo speakers. They can produce 2 different mixes of a song though, 1 for stereo and 1 for S.A., but will they be willing to do the extra work?

[@MarkEllisReviews]

To be honest, Daryl, I hope they’re not willing. The idea of doing away with stereo-mixed music entirely is both completely unscalable and a rather depressing thought (for me, anyway).

[@Shot007]

Crazy to me that you didn't try using the included headphone cables and plugging in the Bose and Sony to the headphone with the Apple lightening to headphone adapter. That's what some do. I would be interested in knowing if this causes the quality to be better than listening to the Sony/Bose over Bluetooth (since that can't transfer lossless).

[@MarkEllisReviews]

I don't think it's particularly "crazy" that I decided not to do that. As you say, some out there do, which is what is so wonderful about KZbin :) I'm personally far more concerned with how these things perform wirelessly, because that matches my - and most of my audience's - use case.

[@cristibaluta]

@@MarkEllisReviews The bluetooth just doesn't have enough bandwidth for that, for example there's a huge difference if you use the airpods pro in a conversation on mac and turn off the mic.

[@bigbro8439]

it depends what you are listening to with regard to Atmos. Try the album 'Point' made by Yello. You will be converted

[@kev3226]

Does it playback to my receiver as trueHD Atmos if I play on Android TV? Anyone know?

[@PaulBondMusic]

Immersive audio (surround and Atmos etc) IF mixed right is vastly superior to stereo. Mixed properly, going from surround to stereo is analagous to going from stereo to mono. I am a professional recording engineer/producer and I am SO happy that’s it’s now gaining a foothold. The down side is that a LOT of engineers are still finding their feet, or even worse using software to ‘upscale’ to surround which is not good! We are at the beginning. In 5 years, music will sound out of this world.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Lovely input from someone who clearly knows what they’re talking about - thanks, Paul!

[@danhat69]

Can anyone tell me if 1) you can hear spatial audio on PX8’s ? 2) can you hear Dolby Atmos or other spatial on Bluetooth PX8’s via a smart tv? I love the sound of the PX8’s but I need them for spatial listening. Particularly for tv watching. Think I’ve bought the wrong ones for me. Might have to return them :(

[@danhat69]

Not solely for tv watching but I recently owned some 1000xm5 which were able to hear spatial. They were faulty so I got a refund. Hence me upgrading to the B&W PX8’s.

[@silvitooo]

Mas Apple diz que áudio lossless não é compatível com AirPods Max ou AirPods pro2 . Somente quando tem o Apple vision conectado .

[@jwrightserio]

“Cheap PA at a village fete…!” Hilarious! Totally agree - I keep going back to spatial audio and yup, music is not good. But films and TV with head tracking is great!

[@MarkEllisReviews]

I hate cheap fete PAs.

[@jwrightserio]

@@MarkEllisReviews I’m not too keen on village fetes either

[@lwdp74]

Apple should design an audiophile version of Music, which I think should have remained iTunes. An audiophile version would simply keep the same basic functionality but recognize all formats and resolutions. I’ve been downloading hi rez music files and finding them hard to implement seamlessly. Bit Perfect is great but doesn’t seem to be supported any more. I’m using an Apple TV with my television which links to my Apple computer with all my audio files. Using non Apple software probably wouldn’t work. I’d be happy to pay for an audiophile version of iTunes. Looking for a good aftermarket version? Good luck! They only try to sell you stuff you don’t need. I know true audiophile software is not for everyone but there must be enough of us to make it worthwhile.

[@kalafalas246]

Bluetooth compresses the audio. You gain a very minimal benefit not compressing twice, but nothing compared to something wired it’s going to be much more subtle.

[@OneWildBoy]

Hi Mark, I cannot agree more about the spatial, Dolby music stuff. It’s just plain sounds bad. I wonder, with the iPhone 14`s ear-mapping camera technology, does it any better? If you can spare a couple of seconds in your coming up big review for this, please do so. I am really interested to find out if is there any development or it is just stays a gimmick as you said.

[@edcondado]

Lossless isn’t supported through bluetooth tho you need a wired connection

[@MarkEllisReviews]

I didn’t suggest it was, mate.

[@TheRaylee78]

you need the right gear to really get the full effect of Lossless music.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Indeed you do.

[@abhikm001]

My friend, lossless music is NOT played when transmitted over a Bluetooth connection. No matter you use the Apple, Bose, Sony or any other headphones. Lossless makes sense only when used with a wired connection Edit : ah you mentioned it later 😂

[@MarkEllisReviews]

It’s always a good idea to watch the entire video, my friend 😉

[@abhikm001]

I commented early... It seems 😀

[@shijotg]

I agree ti that. Spatial audio feels very much muted and dull.

[@brianlucey832]

Atmos is superior to stereo, when done right, as there is a real center image. Stereo has no phantom center, and it's really a bad approximation of speakers in a room. We are in the early days of the format vs 60 years in stereo, so patience is needed. Not much mastering is happening, and Atmos is only mastered with analog by yours truly. Listen to: Lizzo (new and all), Post Malone (Twelve carat toothache), Cordae (From a Birds Eye View), The Greatest Showman Soundtrack, Twenty One Pilots VESSEL, Pharrell No Mas single

[@donvittoriosierra]

Put Grado L pads or some 3rd party version of it on your Grado 80x and witness it obliterate the Sennheiser HD560S :D

[@bill3117]

I hate spatial audio for music! For movies it is okay on new ones. For me older/classic movies sound worse using spatial.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Agreed!

[@terencetreece6633]

Listen to "Midnights" by Taylor Swift using Spatial Audio and LDAC or "The Immersive Experience" by London.....Its not a Spatial Audio problem.

[@Rsalmond83]

There is a night and day difference between AAC/lossless/hi-res lossless. So much more clarity, detail, and punch with the ladder. It does help to have the proper headphones and gear to drive your headphones to their full potential. Spatial audio is cool, but doesn’t work for everything. With a tube amp and hd6xx’s, spacial audio does sound sexy AF tho!

[@ran6110]

Honestly, isn't this a very, very personal preferences type of subject?!?

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Yep!

[@jidofole]

I love that voice

[@kevanmcnay3079]

I have the Apple Music app free trail , Amazon music , iPhone 13 and access to AirPods , AirPods Pro and Galaxy buds ….my conclusion ( short version !) ….Spatial Audio and Dolby pointless on Apple , Dolby on Amazon awful …..leaving ‘ normal lossless on both …..there Amazon sounds louder and clearer with all headphones in my possession ….

[@madeinclearsky8354]

I'm guessing Spatial Audio is made for movies with Apple TV and not for Music.

[@RamonVaqueroImage]

"...the ones with this case... (crash!)" :D :D :D

[@MarkEllisReviews]

That's getting worked into any video featuring the AirPods Max.

[@Aver812]

Spacial audio is just a testing field of future Apple VR

[@bigpaw01]

You can’t hear lossless through Bluetooth. Unless you have a dac and wired headphones.

[@AV-wx4vc]

Lossless is best for my airpods pro 2 brighter sound

[@HermeticAscetic22]

AirPods Max, Bose QC and Sony XM4 are all Bluetooth headphones and I don't think you can listen to Lossless music on those.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Nope, it’s impossible. And I never claimed you could 😉

[@007sMoneyPenny]

Hearing lossless music 🎼with Bluetooth headphones is a contradiction/ a conflict in itself. At least it makes no sense to me. 😉

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Me neither - as my test in this video demonstrated 😉

[@007sMoneyPenny]

@@MarkEllisReviews you’re right. Btw, I have a Tidal subscription and consume FLAC files via hires audio equipment. And Spotify content on the the go with my Sony xm4’s or sometimes via pricier wired headphones 🎧. I live in both world’s so to speak.

[@aidanknight]

Thank goodness you aren't listening in that room, the 215hz and 860hz is crazy in there.

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Thank goodness I couldn’t give two hoots about the frequency response of my back bedroom 😂

[@aidanknight]

@@MarkEllisReviews 😑

[@jedlomax100]

I just cancelled Apple Music. Sound quality is ok, but it's slow, the interface is appalling and it forces you to turn on sync to get music on the watch, and then fills up all IOS devices with music so they don't work properly anymore. Disaster, so glad it's gone.

[@Noid1220]

I’m a fan of lossless and dolby atmos but not spatial audio.

[@simianinc]

Bluetooth can’t even come remotely close to playing CD level music, so pointless testing lossless on them when the resolution is even higher

[@MarkEllisReviews]

As noted in my video. Twice, I think.

[@mrmagpiepromotions]

Spatial audio doesn't work for pop music at all. It only works for art rock, ambient and prog.

[@spane5mixline]

I thought u wanted to talk about spatial audio, didn't know u were only selling headphones

[@MarkEllisReviews]

Eh?

[@user-funnymadp]

the sound quality is already very bad for all airpod pro 1, and just fine for airpods pro 2 and max, turning on spatial audio just destroyed everything, making everything unclear and inaccurate lmao, if ppl really want accurate sound and wide sound stage, get a proper dap and ier z1r, or maybe any good hifi oem

[@brubemedion]

Spatial audio for music is just a gimmick and will fade in time… but the Atmos part without headtracking on. That was my buying point, I know you are talking about music, but for a movie geek like me this was what I was waiting for. I was so hoping that you were gonna talk Atmos for movies because I am really courious what people think of it in combination with an Apple TV and or iPad, because i think it is great

[@JackCumming1]

I’m loving the lossless and hi res music on Apple. Has to be played through a decent external DAC, amp and speakers IMHO.

[@therightarmofthefreeworld4703]

ZennhieZer. "s" is pronounced "z" in German.

[@stevenrobinson4884]

Yep, he’s right! That Lady Gaga track sounds terrible with spatial audio… however, in general I’m loving spatial audio. Go figure 🤪

[@juansymontano]

"Normal" music feels flat. Dolby Atmos has some depth to it. "but the bass" -- oh no, the bass.