BIG TEN ALL-TIME RANKINGS

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[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

SEC All-Time Program Rankings - kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4uUn4GrapmFd7c ACC All-Time Program Rankings - kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYullWypgrB5lZI Big 12 All-Time Program Rankings - kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4uUn4GrapmFd7c Pac 12 All-Time Program Rankings - kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5S0eouVacpmfNk

[@messagetous]

Creative point system tilted in favor of OSU. Tim could tweak the system to make USC number one. I could tweak it to make Michigan number one. Good presentation but dubious conclusion. That's why the AP polls 500 writers, to take the bias out. Although, New York bias is slight because they have so many writers.

[@Whelmed.]

Right? "All-time" but let's focus on specific time periods when Ohio State was successful. **eye roll**

[@sc100ott]

Any objective assessment puts Ohio State above Michigan. FWIW, I am a fan of neither. Michigan vs. USC for #2 position is a matter of tweaking.

[@ralphgoblue]

Michigan vs OSU. - Michigan has more wins, better win% , more National Championships, Michigan 61-51-6 vs OSU , Michigan has more conference titles. More wining seasons , more years ranked , Michigan has 24 undefeated seasons OSU has 6, .. OSU longest regular season win streak is 18 (twice) Michigan is the only team with 4+ regular seasons wins streaks of 25+ games (currently 31 straight ) Michigan is 34-11-4 vs current SEC schools Ohio State is 2-13 .PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW OSU WINS EVERY METRIC. ? I named the 10 most important categories and Michigan is 10-0. Unless u think winning RB winning an award ,is more important than HEAD TO HEAD. I don’t see how ANYONE can say Ohio State has had a better ALL TIME history than Michigan … including Mark Rogers and his adding weird things to get OSU points. Who cares about draft picks .. OSU has more draft picks. But Michigan players have played the most NFL games all time. OSU more drafted players have played less NFL games than Michigan …. Most wins All time. Best win% all time. More conference titles and better head to head record. I mean. GET REAL. ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE. )

[@DeshCanter]

Why does anyone think sportswriters are unbiased? 😳.

[@DeshCanter]

@@ralphgoblue Excellent points. I might add Ohio State played football for 52 years before winning their first National Championship.

[@EnzoMoresi-mj8bc]

Only thing I'd add would be to your Major Bowl list - show wins/losses rather than just wins. Shows added context.

[@kurtisjohnson9530]

Great stuff! Thanks Mark and Co.

[@jona.scholt4362]

Mark, I think you should've pointed out Big Ten bowl win numbers are going to be down compared to other conferences because of the absolutely asinine rule in the 70s and earlier that it was "Rose Bowl or bust". So many Michigan teams (and to a degree Ohio State teams) simply missed bowls even if they were a clear top 5 team in the country (see the early Ten Year War for reference). Also, in the same period, Big Ten champs couldn't go to Back to Back Rose Bowls, which also hurt many elite teams. If the Big Ten simply allowed their schools to go to more bowl games than the Rose Bowl, those numbers would be much much better.

[@dependentfanatic9684]

Good point

[@ralphgoblue]

And Michigan University had an in house rule at one time , they could not play games after a certain date - stopping Michigan from many bowl games. Same thing NDAME went thru. Michigan and NDame had like 60 years (combined ) they weren’t allowed to go to a bowl game. And they had the 1st and 2nd most wins during that span

[@joeedge576]

Exactly... there were a lot of years when a 1 loss scUM team, or a 1 loss tOSU team sat at home while a 7-3 LSU or 7-3 OKla team went bowling...

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Be grateful that I did the work. I know the history. I wasn't going to produce four hour videos.

[@jona.scholt4362]

@@MarkRogersVOCFB Apologies if my remark came off as insulting or an attempt to diminish your video or the work you put it into. It was certainly not my intention; I was merely trying to add context to the crappy bowl win rates the teams I root for have. If you'd like me to remove the comment or edit it, I'd be happy. Again, I appreciate the work and greatly enjoy these videos like this "All Time" series that help us college football junkies make our way through the long off season.

[@jona.scholt4362]

Mark, Michigan has not been a Big Ten member for 124 seasons. Michigan left the Big Ten for 9 seasons from 1908-1916; they rejoined in 1917. (Not to mention they didn't even play any conference games in 1907, so it was essentially 10 seasons out of the Big Ten) This seems like a massive oversight when doing this All Time Big Ten video. Michigan's Big Ten championship percentage should be higher.

[@ralphgoblue]

I believe Michigan has been in the BIG10 for 113 years I’ve seen that number at a couple “highly respected “ Michigan outlets

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Massive oversight is a pathetic response. I put way too much time and effort into this work for little return to field such an insulting piece of trash comment. 124 seasons vs 119 seasons. MASSIVE OVERSIGHT. Here is the amended percentage: .378 instead of .363. That adds one point to Michigan's total.

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Find a better system created and calculated by one person and send me the link. I'll wait for your response.

[@jona.scholt4362]

@@MarkRogersVOCFB Whoa; "massive oversight" may just have been my fan brain going into overdrive! Definitely wasn't trying to insult you or show any lack of appreciation. Love the show, I'll try to edit my responses more carefully in the future!

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

@@jona.scholt4362 It's all good. Sorry if I overreacted.

[@SuspenseESCAPEremastered]

You spent a lot of time and effort putting this together - thank you!

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Thank you for recognizing that. Some people are ungrateful and just criticize. I appreciate it. Thank you for being a classy and grateful viewer.

[@jamesblunt1915]

Most people would just count titles won to determine all time conference champ. This guy wants to come from another angle like counting rainy 3rd quarters won. What on earf 🤔

[@JuckOnBucks]

It ain’t easy coming up with material this month of the year in CFB. This is a lot better than some of the other topics I’ve seen this week.

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Thank you sir.

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Don't watch. Bye.

[@gabeswitala2292]

Individual metrics used to determine tram success? Sure Osuck is gonna look good on paper. But we all know it's UMs conference.

[@foosful]

The Big 10 has become an incredible conference. As a Husker fan, it is humbling to be a part of the conference. I hope Nebraska turns things around and brings more value to the Big. GBR!

[@dependentfanatic9684]

Great video Mark. Newcomers to the B10 don't seem to have much luck. Except OSU

[@Wolverine-xm6pp]

Very good work Mark! I agree mostly, could flip the overall to Michigan based on their overall contributions to the game. As someone mentioned earlier Michigan was out of Big Ten conference for 10 years during an era when they were dominate. Michigan did not participate in many bowl games even when they were really good. Also as far as Michigans record in Bowl games is not great, because a michigan team that is 8-4 usually ends up playing an SEC team that is 9-3 or 10-2 because the bowls all want Michigan due to their popularity. Bo got screwed out of a few possible championships because of Michigan only having one loss and not going to Rose Bowl they stayed home. In todays system they would of been in contention for most of 70's and 80's

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Appreciate that. Totally agree. Absolutely. Same could be said about Ohio State often playing up in class because they were a bowl attraction. Penn State probably takes the biggest hit in these rankings because they couldn’t win a conference championship for most of history.

[@noseaz123]

Great stats and thank you. I was wondering if National Championship appearance was ever considered. Not title wins, just appearances. Thank you!

[@onescoopjohn]

True statement, 12-2, 13-1, and 15-0 definitely helped Michigan catch up with that all time %!

[@ralphgoblue]

Michigan had the All Time win % up til 2018 And regained it.! since 1900 Michigan has had it for 76 years NDame 44 years and OSU 4 years

[@edfleck8626]

Mark when are you releasing your Masters class on college football history?

[@sc100ott]

How did you assign AP poll points for the 5-6 years in the late 1960’s where they only ranked 10 teams (no 11-25), and I think there were also many years where the AP only ranked 20 teams?

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Many years like 63.

[@davidt62]

What I liked: 1. revisiting national titles. You expressed your standard on this - may want to write it out. 2. Using ALL major awards - fantastic inclusion! 3. Using % for conference championships. To consider: A. Excluding Rose Bowls when it was the only bowl game. B. Some schools chose not to participate in bowl games - use % here as well when they did. C. Include the major polls of each era. AP didn’t exist until 1936. Other major polls should matter. My takeaway- your total points establishes the tiers: T1 - OSU, MI, USC. T2 - PSU, NEB. T3 - etc.

[@Mike-sp7zv]

I thought Illionois might have a chance to be a bit higher. Interesting where michigan state and Washington are and especially UCLA

[@ralphgoblue]

Good stuff as usual . My case for Michigan #1 ALL TIME. .. Michigan players have the most college wins , Most NFL GAMES played ,Most NFL Wins Most super bowls and most super bowls played. BY A COLLEGE TEAM -- that’s more impressive than draft picks. They have done way more than any college program. When it comes to NFL and college success. … MICHIGAN is #1.

[@ralphgoblue]

Which award is MORE IMPORTANT. SEC championship game MVP , PLAYOFF MVP or Lou Groza winner. I’m not sure why draft picks. Or award winners are a part of “all time football teams “

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

And yet they are. As you will see when we go through the points system, the individual awards and draft picks are so minuscule (1 / 2 point per) that it doesn't make a difference.

[@ralphgoblue]

@@MarkRogersVOCFB I get it .. but draft = NFL players from a school .. Michigan players have the most NFL games played , most wins , most Super Bowl wins and NFL titles ) and most Super Bowl games played of any college team .. , so draft picks and awards shouldn’t really matter , to “performance on the field “. If my only argument was Michigan players have the most college wins and the most NFL wins, people might think “that has to be the best college program of all time “. Then we do “deep dives “ WHICH I LOVE jsut saying Michigan base line , is as good as it gets “most wins at both levels “ with less players in the NFL (than others in the best of all time talk )

[@ralphgoblue]

SMAL LIST of what Michigan has done. Invented the playbook, invented the blitz , invented the “conferences”. Invented the bowl games , helped write a major number of the rules , brought West and East football together , taught football to many schools …. Most wins , best win% , 2nd most NATTY Most years being AP ranked. The ONLY team with multiple 25+ regular season win streaks (4). Has a winning record vs teams ranked 234. OSU Bama NDame … MICHIGAN IS THE #1 PROGRAM ALL TIME And has the best NFL success BY A VERY WIDE MARGIN as well. Please list anyone else’s”what they did on the field and what they did for the game “. 1st round picks are nice. But Michigan 6th guys have most NFL games played and nfl titles. …

[@gabeswitala2292]

UM also created the LB position

[@larrychannell7056]

Stop it Navi Rutgers and ND Has done more the you chumps. Paul Brown at Ohio State. Stop it just Stop it.

[@joeedge576]

You forgot that scUM also invented 'how to cheat and win' playbook...

[@blazzedbunny3243]

USC has 11 national championships

[@aarontaylorgoblue]

Did you count vacated games?

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Ohio State yes. Penn State I'll need to go back and add. I only penalize for on-field cheating that impact games.

[@aarontaylorgoblue]

@@MarkRogersVOCFB have there ever been any vacated wins for ‘on-field cheating’ or is this an arbitrary standard specifically delineated to impact only one school? Pretty obvious bias cooked right into this thing by pulling arbitrary standards out of the air. Either count the vacated wins or don’t. What Penn St was up to was so much worse than tattoos or signgate, so it’s weird to make that distinction. It reeks of bias.

[@jona.scholt4362]

@@MarkRogersVOCFB How do you determine what is "cheating"? I ask because because it seems pretty arbitrary. Also, something else I'm curious about is how you assess Colorado's "Fifth Down" game and subsequent national championship in 1990. I ask because that call was not a "subjective" call a ref makes like a PI or even a "more objective" call like a false start. It was a clear cut procedural error that "unbalanced" the playing field to such an extreme degree that it completely changed the outcome of the game, especially given it was the last play of the game. If part of the process of your "All time national championships" exercise is to correct some of the wrong calls of the past (ie Penn State in '94), I'm curious if you think that Fifth Down win should be changed to a loss for Colorado. Obviously that would take them out of the national championship running for that season as well. In any case, enjoyed the marathon yesterday and am looking forward to the BCS and poll era shows!

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

@@jona.scholt4362 We have to take the NCAA findings as valid. Therefore, I consider their investigation results to be accurate. Here are two examples of where judgement needs to be applied. Jerry Sandusky is a criminal. Sandusky and everyone involved deserved every form of punishment that the law required. However, none of those despicable acts had any impact to on-field results. Zero. Therefore I choose to negate any football results-based penalties. The 2010 Ohio State team accomplished 12 wins, a conference title (shared) and Sugar Bowl win. Five players from that team then violated NCAA rules that involved the trading of those awards. The players were suspended and punished. The Ohio State program was punished by losing its five best offensive players and lost seven games. The program was also stripped of postseason eligibility in 2012. The games won in 2010 are not in question. They were not won due to cheating. The actions took place after the fact. The penalties are not applicable.

[@ralphgoblue]

USC has 11 NC. OSU has 8

[@Wolverine-xm6pp]

and osu has only 39 Big championships...Mark said 40 (he's got them Buckeye glasses on)

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

40. 2010 needs to be revised.

[@franklinarchie8002]

What a tool. Never seen something so blatantly bias to slant everything in osu favor. Let me guess mark you must be an ohio st fan. Where’s osu 9th national title come from? Also I see there’s no metric for head to head but I bet it would’ve been included if Michigan and osu roles were reversed. It was actually osu who caught up to Michigan in win percentage given Michigan subpar play during the rich rod/hoke years. Osu has a chip where they lost the last two games of the year, where they do that at. All time Michigan better, anyone can cherry pick time periods. Must be an ohio st thing, go cherry pick some nuts.

[@MarkRogersVOCFB]

Call the show coward. But you won't because you're a clown. 7-9pm ET Friday. Call me. I dare you.

[@user-wp3cy3fl2j]

Best Big Ten program all time? Michigan. 12 National Championships, case closed. (When I think of all the time you wasted Mark, when the answer was so simple). 😁

[@dependentfanatic9684]

That's funny, But Mark is good people even though he is a Buckeye. I can respect greatness. That's why I am a Michigan fan lol

[@ralphgoblue]

Most conference titles , wins , National Titles and the ONLY school with a winning record vs every other team in the conference (during BIG10 seasons ). There is NO DEBATE Michigan is #1. People can re work it any at they want

[@jamescooper3324]

As a Michigan fan, I think there’s an argument to be made in light of recent and sustained success for OSU. Rivals they may be, but that has nothing to do with the fact that for 2 decades, they’ve dominated most of college football. Yes their record against the SEC is nothing to be desired, same can be said for Michigan. Michigan has more natty’s but a lot of their wins came against high school teams in the early days. Michigan was better at stringing together natty’s but OSU had less gaps in between theirs. If you had asked me this question 5 years ago, the clear answer is OSU. Recent success has turned Michigan around but the next few years are the real determining factor in where Michigan truly lies. Moore is unproven, but is a great offensive mind and an o line guru. Right now, gun to my head, have to go with OSU, but Michigan is right there with them and has a chance to surpass them with sustained success. Michigan needs to have a 10-15 year stretch at the very least in order to rival what the Buckeyes have done post 2000. That said, the rivalry is cyclical and usually every 20 years it tends to flip one way or the other. Michigan went 14-6 from 1980-1999. OSU went 17-3 from 2000-2019. Looking forward to the season and hopefully a classic game. Hope for a healthy season for both teams. Go Blue