Marksman - challenger for worst level 2 unit in Heroes 3 ??

[@HeroesKitchen]

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[@heikkihegemon493]

Ironically Marksmen are in practice one of the best 2 lvl creature in the game. They just cant manage on their own and in most in game situations, they dont have to.

[@HeroesKitchen]

@@heikkihegemon493 Yes 😅😅 I was truly expecting them to dominate most matches.

[@SnailBeast]

The same goes for any glass cannon

[@wingsofliberty7050]

I was shocked that they lost to lizardmen warriors. They even got to attack first. And when you think of it, Fortress also has one of the fastest units in the game and is level 3, and mighty gorgons. And day 3 wyverns

[@anamorfoplasis]

@@wingsofliberty7050 5 points differerce in defence is much.

[@bencedobany5806]

@@wingsofliberty7050 Fortress is truly underrated

[@Mastercio]

Seamen were done SO DIRTY by that terrain. The AI just give Marksman a lot of free shots because of that.

[@HeroesKitchen]

Were they, or did they decide to go all down, then up, then down? I mean if they were to just all walk straight forward, they would most likely win.

[@Mastercio]

@@HeroesKitchen They blocked themself, and those behind then decided to just go up and down. If not for terrain they would just go straight. They still were losing a lot soldiers, but even if they would not win it would be MUCH closer.

[@xJetbrains]

The last two battles show how map randomness really affects this test. With a few tries they could have also won the dwarfs.

[@HeroesKitchen]

I think the main difference is that Dwarves have too much HP and defense and the archers cannot reduce them before they reach. Even though wolves are much faster, 10HP and the low DEF are just failing them. I, personally, don't think the archers can win vs the dwarves, for the reasons above. Seaman were a bit unexpected, I thought they will perform similar to dwarves.

[@xJetbrains]

@@HeroesKitchen "Seaman were a bit unexpected, I thought they will perform similar to dwarves." Exactly. It could have ended differently. You can give it a try if you're interested, just for fun.

[@cmlcml415]

Marksman might have bad result here, but we all know how fun and good these creatures are 😌

[@HeroesKitchen]

It is a publicly known secret - they might not win this tournament, but if we put it to a vote - which unit you would choose Marksmen or something else, I think most people will choose Marksmen.

[@AeonQuasar]

I wonder if vanilla Marksmen where any better than this? Seems to me that there have been some balancing mods that have changed the strength comparison quite significantly. Marksmen used to be quite deadly iirc.

[@HeroesKitchen]

@@AeonQuasar I think they still are, This just shows us a very specific situation - no magic, no hero stats, no player strategy, no other units.

[@bosspoke]

@@AeonQuasar They still have highest base dmg per week of all ranged tier 2 with 90 dmg per week. They also beat all melee except wolf raiders who can hit for 126 dmg if not killed first. For reference: an archangel only has 100 base dmg not counting attack which ofcource matters alot. So the marksmen delivers more dmg per week than many units in the game actually, which is impressive for a tier 2.

[@bosspoke]

Even though they perform poorly here they are possibly the best if not 2-3. best tier 2 unit. They do what a ranged unit is supposed to do, deliver high dmg ranged firepower. They may not be good when engaged in melee, or good in big fights since they'll get nuked too fast but they are great for helping castle in the early-mid game by clearing camps quickly. Marksmen has an average dmg of 90 per week with 6 attack Storm elementals has an average dmg of 60 per week with 9 attack (I don't think that 3 extra attack compensates for 30 less base dmg) Lizard warriors has an average dmg of 63 with 6 attack Magogs has an average dmg of 48 with 7 attack (Though it is 96 if he can consistently hit 2 targets which against AI in Hota is quite doable. Dmg is even up at 144 and 192 if it can hit 3 or 4 targets but it is less likely even vs AI) So vs AI specifially Magogs can become powerhouses in HotA, but otherwise marksmen tend to deliver more dmg which is the primary function of a ranged unit assuming you can defend them.

[@HeroesKitchen]

@@bosspoke I agree with everything. The only thing that bothers me with them is taking on other archers, as they immediately target you. The low HP literally ensures at least some losses. So, if I get nuked once vs random creatures, then they are super hard to recover as dmg dealers.

[@bosspoke]

@HeroesKitchen I find a good tactic for clearing ranged enemies is to have a secondary hero following your main hero so the main hero can dump the marksmen into the other hero when doing those fights. That way you can use units like griffins to minimalize losses vs ranged packs, untill you get ressurection and/or archangels to undo casulties.

[@marcinki2912]

I see that Magog fireball was improved in HotA and it can explode between the target's. I think that in original Heroes, the marksman would win against Magog's.

[@Jurgen123445]

Because the creators of HotA are hacks who don't know jack shit about the game. Always vanilla 💪💪💪

[@HeroesKitchen]

I actually like the idea of improving the Magogs. They felt so weak in vanilla, poor Inferno - even improved in HotA, they are still a bit on the weak side. Vanilla has its charms too for sure - I find myself playing it, for the diplo game - I personally don't like this change.

[@ajer4681]

THe stats are insane between Marksmen and Dwarves (more damage, TWICE as much defensive.)

[@HeroesKitchen]

Don't forget double the health, that is also a huge difference.

[@bosspoke]

And yet the marksmen are much better

[@HeroesKitchen]

@ Yes, of course. This test has nothing to do with real gameplay value of the units, most of the time. Marksmen are essential, while dwarves are situational at best.

[@blackwidow7804]

Still one of the best tier 2 units in the game. Just need couple of Pikemans to protect them early game and you can clear most of the starting map.

[@HeroesKitchen]

Pikemen's main role in the game. Surround the archer and hold the line with their 10 HP and great stats.

[@tomaszszyjanowicz2650]

marksmen are the best tier 2 unit when controlled by a player not a bot and with backup units thne they really shine

[@HeroesKitchen]

Definitely!

[@ИосифЛуна]

Best and worst are not definitions at which HoMM operates. Strong and useful are

[@HeroesKitchen]

@@ИосифЛуна True, true.