Marriage Debate | Peter Hitchens | Opposition

[@relarerfhjk]

Peter Hitchens says: "it would be nice if we could have continued as a society rather than a collection of people living in the same place" Beautiful line, and so sad.

[@BaltimoreDispatches]

Oh, so that non-sequitur strikes you as a beautiful argument? Why? Why would no longer forcing people to stay married against their will make us atomized individuals rather than a society? He doesn't establish a logical connection at all; he just states it illogically from an unrelated premise (that marriage is a province of life sheltered from the power of the state, where individuals exercise their autonomy). In fact, one could argue that easing the conditions of divorce increases personal autonomy against state intrusion...

[@2126Eliza]

relarerfhjk When men share power and influence, we can have that.

[@MidnightRambler]

people like you have destroyed a beautiful union.

[@Kimberly-rw1mj]

'Jean-Baptiste' you clearly failed to understand the video. If marriage pre-exists the state then legislation to enable the break up of marriages is intrusion into private life. As for 'atomised society' that follows on from destruction of home life and attentive parenting, which allowed parents to pass on their ideas to their children. Next time please watch the video again if there's something you don't understand.

[@sennsita01]

I think he understood it perfectly. Not everything that predates the state and then be challenged by the state is an "intrusion". The practice of rape probably predates the state as well (as it is observed in animals). Everyone hopefully agrees that the introduction of sexual assault laws wasn't an unjustified "intrusion into private life". Ultimately one has to consider whether being prevented from leaving a married partner constitutes a violation of that person's rights/freedom so that state intrusion is necessary. One also has to consider whether two people being stuck with each other with brewing resentment is indeed a "home life" to aspire to. Destruction of home life happens in married household too (I'm the child of one, and personally I'd rather my parents are divorced, everyone would be happier imo). Conversely a good home life can be a product of two committed parents, whether married or not. Good parenting doesn't need to happen in a married couple, or in a couple at all. There are plenty of amazing single parents.

[@EmilyRose1]

Amazing last word by Hitchens. He is SO great ❤️

[@voskoff7]

absolutely moral

[@busydad4858]

Fantastic speech. Divorce absolutely should be an option for when the marriage cannot continue for legitimate reasons (infidelity, lack of consummation, violence, intimidation, abuse etc) but divorce as well as state-sponsored has become big business in the legal sector now - this is a nasty, disgusting, exploitative and sad reality

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

You do know that Peter Hitchens was arguing against the right to get a divorce, don't you? There was nothing "fantastic" about Peter's speech. There was a Lot that was creepy about it, however. And extremely evasive of the entire subject of abusive marriages....

[@nick-her9275]

@@maskedmarvyl4774 I don’t believe that divorce should be legal at all. I do believe that there should be a judicial separation agreement but I don’t believe that a marriage can be ended. Marriage is a life long contract, “till death do is part” “for as long as we both shall live”. If you don’t want to enter into this no ending contract then simply don’t.

[@James-zu1ei]

@@nick-her9275 You're a bit dim, aren't you. Marriages can suddenly turn abusive or people get cheated on through affairs at age 50!! You simply cannot predict these things when you first get married. You can also be a truly good loyal person and be let down by your partner big time. Humans are unpredictable.

[@whatwhat678]

@@maskedmarvyl4774 Abusive marriages were always grounds for divorce. It wasn’t a perfect institution but the efforts weren’t made to improve it, the efforts were made to destroy it, and by doing so, destroying society. If marriage was robustly defended by law then people would be more careful about who they fuck and have kids with. What’s wrong with that? I think you’re clearly a regrettable moron or an evil and deliberately ignorant ahole.

[@willjames1712]

@@James-zu1ei then don't get married 🙄 or if you are married and want an end to the relationship then separate.

[@CranberryCrimson]

Fantastic speech, fantastic points. Finally some logical, clear thinking in this entire debate.

[@toiletfriend420]

+LightMatter2525 damn now that you copied and pasted those bible lines you totally rebutted p hitchens through method undefined and too nuanced for everyone else to grasp

[@toiletfriend420]

***** pointing out what language i've used won't reduce "my position" either. debate much?

[@2126Eliza]

cranberrycrimson it's such bullshit. It's independence for men, slavery for women.

[@Durram258]

You're an idiot frankly, a strong marriage helps women more than anyone, women suffer terribly if not in a committed partnership in their 30's. Everybody knows women are much more social then men and require relations more than men do, not to mention ONE of their biological purposes being the ability to reproduce and continue the species. If women don't achieve meaningful relationships and children (generally speaking) then they start to have a psychological breakdown as its ingrained in them to do these things.Now what does marriage do to help this, firstly it makes the man promise to stand by that women, secondly if done properly, you wont have children until your married, therefore he's promising to stand by them children to. Thirdly the married family accumulates far more wealth, far better social standing, as well as a better grounded upbringing of children, which results in a happy life for each family member involved.The only way either partner is kept a slave is being restricted to one partner, now if you don't want that kind of restriction, you should really question your own moral and ethical position on the subject.

[@2126Eliza]

Durram258 men need women and live longer if married. The reverse is not true. Most older women I see who are widowed have a new sense of freedom and happiness. When that happens to older men, they get grumpy, have no friends or social ties and experience depression.

[@AnaxofRhodes]

I'd never thought of marriage as the private authority that the government has gradually infringed on as the public replacement. Was probably taught to me at school and church at some point, but it never sank in until the power of marriage was nullified. You don't know what you have until it's taken away.

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

For women, it sounds like freedom from slavery....

[@Durram258]

@@maskedmarvyl4774 If you believe that, youll believe anything. Marriage has been better for women than it has for men. Provided more benefit and protection to women than it has to women. And if its so tyrannical over women, why do rich successful women get married whilst poor women dont? The rich successful women oppressing themselves?

[@SWIFTzTrigger]

@@maskedmarvyl4774 Feminist clap trap would have you believe every woman is oppressed and every man is an oppressor...

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

@@Durram258 , You rather answered your own question. Rich, successful women have options that poor women don't. They can afford to leave if their spouse becomes abusive. They can afford to hire an attorney to protect their rights, where a poor woman can't. I understand very well that Family Court is often heavily biased in women's favor, no matter their behavior, particularly in matters of child custody. That needs to be reformed drastically, and should have been many years ago. I have grown up in the South, where family pressure and court bias (including police bias against women) made it almost impossible for a battered woman to escape abuse.

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

@@SWIFTzTrigger , I'm only speaking specifically about marriage; nothing else. Where I grew up in the Deep South, marriage was used to keep women in an abusive situation, where they had little to no support to escape from abuse. Police would actually pick up battered women, and return them to their abusive husbands, and refuse to charge the husbands with assaulting their wife. The husband would then beat the hell out of their wife for trying to escape or for calling the police. It was a living hell for the women. And that's in America, not Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

[@IndyDefense]

The state should have no place in marriage. It should go back to being an entirely private institution in the domain of individuals.

[@eleveneleven572]

IndyDefense As soon as you sign your marriage licence you have contracted with the State. Don't do it.

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

And if the wife is being used as a punching bag by her drunken husband? What then? What authority comes to her aid?

[@Saber23]

MaskedMarvyl that’s not the point of what he’s saying you fucking idiot

[@Saber23]

Eleven : Eleven the second you destroy marriage you destroy society and we see this happening in the west now

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

@@Saber23 , you demonstrate that you have no idea what he's saying, genius. He's saying that we should go back to the point where divorce is not permitted; where women shouldn't have the option of getting a divorce. His extremely broad and generalized statements do not address any consequences of that. I threw out a hypothetical in response to that. Please try thinking yourself before judging other people's statements, my very stable genius.....

[@canopus101]

Superb oratory by peter Hitchens. I find his idea that marriage is important, not just to a man and woman, but as a declaration of a small freedom against the considerable power of the state, is impressive. The quotation of D. H. Lawrence's writing was new to me and very thought provoking.

[@James-zu1ei]

How is it a freedom? I don't get it bc you're literally signing a contract where the state now have control over YOUR private love life.

[@loudorchen183]

@@James-zu1ei You have control over the raising of the next generation (without state interference). It’s where children discover the lore of the tribe and become well informed individuals who know who they are and where they come from, where they are capable of becoming free. In the private space they can also cling to individual ideas of conscience as opposed to the nationalised social conscience.

[@park1059]

His trademark 'pessimism' at the end.

[@stuartbritton7408]

He's not pessimistic, although it sounds like it compared to other people. If you're awake, you sometimes wish you were asleep.

[@lsobrien]

@@stuartbritton7408 Pessimism is a proud philosophical tradition. No shame in it.

[@burgcarli929]

Brevity is the soul of wit. I love how Peter distills his arguments. He wastes no time with pomp. He gets right to the point, and hammers you with truth bombs. All the while, being completely entertaining.

[@Macca-95]

I cannot say that I agree with Mr Hitchens in this video but at lease he can stand up rather civilly and argue a point unlike the opposition.

[@adambritain5774]

That's because you were born in 1995. Give it another decade or two and you will.

[@ProramboFails]

A very moral video tbh.

[@Alenarien]

+LightMatter2525 We wonder when you are going to self-righteously dismiss the unbiblical genocide committed by Atheists.

[@ProramboFails]

***** Go tip your fedora somewhere else, lad.

[@toiletfriend420]

+LightMatter2525 "Your idiocy has already been thoroughly debunked" >forgets to include quotes "However, Your "perfectly good" GOD admittedly, in his own fictional book" >god >omnipotent, omniscient concept >"his own fictional book" >concept of omniscient being writes a fiction about himself >atheist reasoning in 2016 "murders millions, commands death, causes misery, supports rape and inflicts genocide" >calls it fiction >fiction is written by humans >continues to insist that god is the author when arguing about what it says inside but also simultaneously amuses the notion that it is not >why are atheists such head cases? "Nice try." COME BACK WHEN U GOT SOME HAIR ON UR BALLS

[@ProramboFails]

***** WEW LAD, That was the most fedora comment i've ever seen.

[@ProramboFails]

+doland trunp this tbh

[@johnbest4513]

Yes. Every word the truth.

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

Could you please point out which word was the truth? I'll settle for one. His name doesn't count.

[@Saber23]

MaskedMarvyl LOL 😂 did you even watch the video you fool? He gave statistics and read from one of the disgusting pioneers of of “sexual liberation” not to mention he brought up the ultimate point that if you take away marriage you destroy society just because your biased and you hate him doesn’t mean he didn’t have good points

[@beautifulspirit7420]

Excellent. So true. I am Catholic, happily married to my Catholic husband 25 yrs. Our young adult kids all want the stability of a sacramental marriage.

[@catholicfemininity2126]

Me too, but for us single lady Catholics, there are no gentlemen our age willing to court us.

[@mrspacechicken123]

@@catholicfemininity2126 I'm a single 19 year old Catholic bloke, I feel the same way about how difficult it is finding a Catholic girl not just in society but from within Church communities - it is pretty hard to justify approaching them at all when I do come across someone at church since it doesn't feel quite right to do so in that kind of social situation. I wish local churches would recognise the difficulties that young Catholics face and help us to commune together in a way where it is easier to find another person who is also willing to start a relationship.

[@karlanewman9142]

This man is an amazing intellectual.

[@catholicmilitaryassociation]

@@catholicfemininity2126 Strive for sainthood. Meet many people. Pray. Also, discern boldly. Men and women must all consider whether God might be willing them to any the remarkable vocations within the religious life.

[@JosephusAurelius]

Bless you. Your family will be an icon of hope & true love in the face of the popular vacuity that is promiscuousness and untrustworthiness

[@ricdavid7476]

hes still the only journo who makes any sense.

[@ricdavid7476]

@Давай, До Свидания! Unlike the people who long to destroy marriage which is exclusively for a man and a woman for life mr Hitchens is not a fool we do not live in a perfect world and he knows there has to be remedies for broken marriages

[@saltyprepper5518]

Based a s e d

[@guitarrahombre]

+Darth Gandalf MORALITY O R A L I T Y

[@saltyprepper5518]

+guitarrahombre *morality man

[@emilner357]

+Darth Gandalf PANCAKES P A N C A K E S

[@owenmilner9700]

+emilner357 CHUBBAROO H U B C H U B C H U B . . . .

[@offwiththefairies77]

+Owen Milner S M D H ;/

[@MichElle-sd6gj]

“Top Baroness Fiona Shackleton is encouraging schools to talk to children about the importance of marriage” - FAMILY spells Father And Mother I Love You🙏🏼

[@SuperMoejoe21]

Proud of this one

[@dragonshoot32]

can we get a transcript of this speech? this was great.

[@TheG7thcapo]

Marriage is the foundation of society. If the marriage is broken society is broken. We don’t need Phd or rocket science to understand that. Just observe what is the effect of divorce. Anger hate bitterness confusion depression etc. The golden rule is still true today “ love your neighbour as you love yourself” who is your closest neighbour? Its your spouse.

[@stuartbritain8529]

Thank God for Peter Hitchens. The man is peerless.

[@buddha8910]

Marriage and Family have been the bedrock of Society for so long. The foundation of decent principles and ethics. And now that it is accepted that this no longer matters co habitation without this has done nothing to improve family life but made it more complex as people have children by several partners. Making way for porn and disrespect of both sexes, with absolutely no effort to surmount problems and work through them by talking with each other resulting in an overall lack of family communication. Children watch their parents and they learn. So many families are in disarray struggling to cope with their fragile relationships that lack commitment. There is no incentive to try and things have changed, not for the better sadly.

[@stuartbritton7408]

Try to use commas to break up sentences where appropriate. Keep sentences shorter to make your points more effectively, and to keep the reader interested. Good points made- marriage and family values are on the rocks.

[@Foerdi94]

Wonderful. The D. H. Lawrence Quote was perfect and is sadly proven day in day out in the part of Western Society that has welfare payments as ist main income.

[@missie504]

This man is a rare soul.Thank goodness for a few people left on this earth like this who speak out actual truth instead of woke rubbish

[@robertprice9052]

Men get killed in a divorce. I friend of mine divorced about six months ago. He lost his home, and his kids, and 2/3 of his income. His wife never worked even though she had a degree in architecture. He always objected to her not working, when the kids started school he objected to home school so she could work. So he will have to rebuild his life from scratch and she will have a paid-for home. The only case I know of the man not getting totally screwed was a friend who is an attorney and he fought the divorce based on contract law. She got the house, but it is in the kid's name. They will get it down the road. He fought for custody because he could afford to support them and she couldn't. She agreed to all his financial concessions to get custody of the children. The court couldn't give her the house because it was always in his and the kid's name. He explained to the judge it was a part of their estate plan that the house belongs to the kids if something ever happened to their parents. The judge couldn't take it from the kids.

[@suededogs9670]

Yeah , there's Germaine saying how awful marriage is for women and how , if they leave the marriage, they are so poor . My husband's ex wife got the house ( cos the men are always the ones expected to leave - even if they are the innocent party ) the bigger cut of the money and the kids ( then she turned them against their father , and she was fiddling the tax man so actually , she wasnt doing too bad . He left with his clothes & his cd's .

[@n.c.9618]

so true. same happened to my dad, except my mon threw out his CDs too.

[@micklumsden3956]

Divorce can be an acto of Mercy!

[@karlanewman9142]

This man is an amazing intellectual.

[@88888Rob88888]

wow i never thought of it like that

[@leeandrews2473]

Peter Hitchens love him he always runs rings around them very clever man

[@jamesemerson4102]

He does. He is absolutely honest.

[@davidcook7887]

No where near as clever as his brother.

[@PabloSensei]

@@davidcook7887 he is even better than his brother

[@eleveneleven572]

Any man who enters into marriage, a contract that can not only be brocken without penalty, but which if broken can benefit the person breaking it. That is totally contrary to natural justice and as such the marriage contract should be avoided.....esp as it is men who are most often handed the shitty end of the stick.

[@michaelappiah4974]

Ravi Zacharias, Jordan Peterson, Peter Hitchens; God smiled on us when these men were born.....

[@TimCrinion]

"Marriage" is one of those annoying things that everyone has an opinion about, but no one realises there needs to be an agreed *definition* of it before we can debate our opinions.

[@steveneaklor2990]

That's easy. Marriage is a God-ordained institution. "Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh so that they are no longer two, but one flesh."

[@tinmannewheart7745]

Brilliant, Articulate, Lucid, and True!

[@JosephusAurelius]

I am agnostic but find a lot of Peter’s arguments compelling. The ‘society’ we are heading for is quite obviously not a good one so we must return to the good aspects of tradition, one of those being sacramental marriage

[@OpenMawProductions]

I fear it's going to get very ugly very soon for quite some time. Until we can right the rudder again. I think we've all known instinctively it was going to have to come to this.

[@Halgame99]

We are in decline let it collapse

[@anastasia10017]

"destroy the permanency of marriage and the church falls. the church is established on the union of mankind. break it and you will have to go back to the overwhelming dominance of the state. "

[@AnnulmentProof]

"Marriage in this country is legally dead - it exists as a ghost." Enter canons 1152, 1153 and 1692 of the Catholic Church.

[@blablabubles]

+John Farrell I pray that our Church may convert the world before we plunge into total Barbary.

[@papasmurf6180]

Soon it will, my friend.

[@adorabasilwinterpock6035]

Dirty papists, the pope is the antichrist

[@AnnulmentProof]

@@adorabasilwinterpock6035 is that an infallible statement?

[@adorabasilwinterpock6035]

John Farrell The Catholic ”Church” is the reincarnation of the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine adopted christianity and changed for political gain, spawning the cult of catholicism with its heresy, idolatory etc.

[@krileayn]

Can someone give a link to the DH Lawrence quote on marriage. thanks.

[@Travis1365]

He is so good, thank God for Peter Hitchens.

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

you can make a little world in marriage

[@hopefulforhumanity5625]

Peter does not mention that certain levels of abuse require help from the state. This is probably what caused the state to get involved. But I also assume that most people who are divorced did not really need to divorce for reasons of safety.

[@Rayblondie]

Thank you Peter Hitchens. Marriage is still alive and well regardless of governments. It has worked for hundreds of years. A marriage between a man and a woman is the best foundation for children that is known in the world. Unfortunately I didn't get that as a child and it took many decades to work though it. Fortunately I have five grandchildren through my oldest son. Jesus said that what God has joined together let no man cast asunder. I think it will survive as it is the best chance that love will endure between a man and a woman during their lives and also to their children.

[@Alenarien]

Peter is right: THE INTERMARRIAGE IS GREAT!

[@fryliver4953]

i don't get it. what happens if the state is not involved in marriage and how does them being involved stop this?

[@toiletfriend420]

+Fry Liver it doesn't directly; his argument stems from the idea that this "piecemeal erosion" has changed attitudes to compensate. we've become used to this idea that divorce is the end-all to a marriage and that the other party once this has been enforced no longer has a say. if the state can no longer enforce this then suddenly vows are worth something; but if the state can intervene then "for better for worse, until death do us part" are just words that you utter hollowly knowing that at any point they may be violated. this ebbs away at our social health and we all must and we try to compensate for this contradiction in many ways that don't end up favouring us.

[@jennifer6497]

Thank you, Mr. Hitchens. If I am not mistaken, in his Dred Scott dissent, Justice Curtis made a similar argument regarding the state's duty to **recognize** Scott's marriage. Here is part of that passage: "In my judgment, there can be no more effectual abandonment of the legal rights of a master over his slave than by the consent of the master that the slave should enter into a contract of marriage in a free State, attended by all the civil rights and obligations which belong to that condition. "And any claim by Dr. Emerson, or anyone claiming under him the effect of which is to deny the validity of this marriage and the lawful paternity of the children born from it, wherever asserted, is, in my judgment, a claim inconsistent with good faith and sound reason, as well as with the rules of international law. And I go further: in my opinion, a law of the State of Missouri which should thus annul a marriage, lawfully contracted by these parties while resident in Wisconsin, not in fraud of any law of Missouri, or of any right of Dr. Emerson, who consented thereto, would be a law impairing the obligation of a contract, and within the prohibition of the Constitution of the United States."

[@Michael-ns1ey]

Peter once pointed out that slaves have always been permitted to mate, but never to marry.

[@l-kin3480]

@@Michael-ns1ey permitted lol, you mean forced

[@Michael-ns1ey]

@@l-kin3480 I was quoting Peter, so maybe ask him what he meant. I would imagine they were both permitted/allowed and forced, depending on the specific circumstances, although how a man and woman who don't want to mate could manage to do it under threat is a mystery to me. Incidentally, he wasn't necessarily talking specifically about African slaves in America, which some might assume, but about all slaves everywhere, of all races, throughout history.

[@morganwhalen3121]

At 4:50 does anyone have evidence of this I'm curious

[@anastasia10017]

yes. Marriage was seen as smacking of capitalism as families had property and assets. Immediately after the revolution, the soviet govt banished religion, abolished inherited assets and private property, allowed easy divorce (but not alimony) and regarded marriage as something that would not be needed as all russians would benefit from communal support and protection. Child support was encouraged as the soviet govt recognized they were the future of soviet russia and told parents to raise children that would be productive for the USSR. The communal support idea did not work out so well with overwhelming unemployment, bread lines and unwanted children in orphanages. over the next 15-20 years, the soviet govt changed it's tune and decided that families were important if only to reduce homelessness, poverty and orphans.

[@paulturner9998]

@@anastasia10017 🙏💫

[@kawaiiuguu7394]

Interesting and MORAL but I'd argue it's not really the state attacking marriage but women and feminism. Why are nearly all divorces initiated by women?

[@Grasonwombat]

Because men are a fucking headache

[@2126Eliza]

Kawaii Uguu Because they can. You think women invented marriage and becoming property?

[@louisburlingham6249]

Peter Hitchens is so right but is there anyway back . I despair

[@newtons3rdlaw570]

What an intro! Brilliant.

[@liveandlearn515]

Would be nice, if there was a link to the opposing argument!

[@StandingStrongforMarriages]

Reminds me a lot of Dr. Steven Baskerville! - “How no fault divorce empowers the state”. Wake up church, let your pastors know, if they will listen.

[@newrisingsun5016]

Peter Hitchens . Journalist of the year . 1793

[@appalachiahiker853]

New RisingSun idiot

[@vernedavis]

scorecard needed relating every Oxford Union upload

[@michaelanstis5668]

a surprisingly good speech

[@brandona801]

For some reason I want whole milk

[@sahulhameed156]

Life is a jungle as long as you are single. When you become double, you invite trouble.

[@SuperHeadman1]

One of the few true Conservatives left.

[@Knappa22]

Eloquent but all he's shown is that marriage is hopelessly ill suited to being a legal contract.

[@antun88]

Truly the last of its kind. Proper Christian conservatism could die with him.

[@mansnotbot4160]

"It is marriage that has given man the best of his freedom," said no married man ever.

[@Michael-ns1ey]

Nice. Although maybe that's mainly only true since the assault on marriage Peter's talking about.

[@Michael-ns1ey]

@Давай, До Свидания! Who?

[@MichElle-sd6gj]

Nobody dresses like the British, nobody👍🏻👏.

[@Ironworthstriking]

I expected this to be Peter Hitchens arguing with his wife about who was supposed to do the dishes last night.

[@robdevilliers666]

Spot on. Excellent!

[@Halgame99]

Peter is right ❤️ great man who really cares about mankind and our future

[@seanmellows1348]

I like Hitchens very much. It would indeed have been very nice to continue living as a society. Still, let’s get over it on this topic. The onus is on the individual now, and the stakes are well understood.

[@TheSapphire51]

So he thinks that a person wh finds themselves miserably unhappy in a marriage should be forced to stay in it. Nonsense.

[@user-hu3iy9gz5j]

No, of course not. He means that the breaking of a contractal marriage should protect the deserted party's right to acquired personal property and maintained legal guardianship

[@tauseeftariq3404]

This guy is a legend!!

[@randykuhns4515]

He makes very salient points to defend what he speaks for, unlike his brother,..

[@rpcarnell]

Peter Hitchens and Christopher Hitchens have the exact same voice.

[@mukiwabanda2794]

Liberals: I want the right of gay marriage! Conservatives: Fine. Nobody's stopping you. Liberals: I want the right of gay marriage by religious institutions! Conservatives: wait what...

[@steveneaklor2990]

I don't get your point.

[@abhimanyukarnawat7441]

@@steveneaklor2990 of course you don't, devil spawn.

[@cliffjamesmusic]

We are brought up to play a role, fulfilling the demands of the status quo power regime. The existing system is built on exploitation, without which it would collapse. Marriage has provided a sense of purpose, sanctuary and recuperation, thereby ensuring that people are in a position to continue in their role within the exploitative system. The key demand of feminism is not equality but freedom from an exploitative patriarchal system. It is hardly surprising that the traditional institution of marriage in the UK has come under threat but society has not evolved into providing a cohesive way of living built on freedom with responsibility.

[@TimCrinion]

The failed argument (as far as I can tell) for gay marriage: P1. Legal marriage is a right. P2. Gay persons should have the same rights as straight persons. P3. Therefore, legal marriage should be available for gay people as much as straight people. Notice that this argument is logically valid: If P1 and P2 are true, then P3 follows inescapably. Are P1 and P2 true? P2 seems true. Even if you deny that objective moral truths exist, you probably still want P2 to be true. What about P1? I don't believe P1 is true. Marriage is a description, not a right. Married persons don't deserve different rights than nonmarried persons. P1 is like saying _being registered as disabled is a right._ Furthermore, notice that if P1 is true, then P2 could be replaced by _Triples and quadruples should have the same rights as pairs._ But this means the state should start dishing out 3-way marriages, which seems absurd.

[@painexotic3757]

I believe marriage shouldn't be in the hands of the state at all. It should be a private matter.

[@EpaminondastheGreat]

Excellent!

[@hk_ballers]

Great person

[@toliman3213]

Oh Peter, ...

[@MagnificentFiend]

What does he say at the 0:37 mark? 'Jane called for ??? to be allowed to marry in church.'

[@Minzalin]

+MagnificentFiend "herself"

[@MagnificentFiend]

+Minzalin Ah, thanks.

[@ausgoogtube01]

Although the genius comment "our society has already disappeared up its own contradictions.." may have an impressive vulgar imperative it is nonetheless technically true. The legislating for personal contradiction as opposed to duty and responsibiliy is why we are now living in a state of collective paradigmatic misery as opposed to a flourishing society.

[@simclardy1]

I like Peter Hitchens what about if someone doesn't think they broke the contract but really did meaning they didn't actually love their spouse even though they promise to love honor and cherish It would be convenient to blame the state and I don't know enough to dispute Peter but it might just be an excuse

[@billyhw5492]

So the Catholic Church was right all along?

[@l-kin3480]

Catholic countries have the highest out of wedlock births and very low marriage rates

[@libertyordeath1211]

How have I never heard of him before today?

[@sethdylan1596]

How is a contract, freedom...

[@craigcottrell1172]

Freedom to and freedom from. As mentioned, freedom from state intervention, for example. Freedom to flourish, i.e. have a family, knowing that the person you are with is committed to that as a respondibility

[@sethdylan1596]

@@craigcottrell1172 dont need a peice of paper or the government for that though.

[@craigcottrell1172]

@@sethdylan1596 A contact equals stability and security, something that separates your relationship from any other casual one, whereby someone can leave in an instant. Put it another way; would you buy a car purely on a verbal basis? Or would a contract with a commitment by the seller give you freedom to buy/ freedom from worry about honouring their side?

[@sethdylan1596]

@@craigcottrell1172 I'll agree that a marriage certificate makes legal life easier and if things go badly it helps. Other than that it means nothing.

[@craigcottrell1172]

@@sethdylan1596 Well, you asked how a contract is freedom, hence my responses. Whether it 'means' anything is a question of personal perspective. But again, I would argue that deciding to want to be legally bound shows a different intent.

[@chrisbirch6513]

this is so sad

[@drsyedakiranumefarwabukhar2942]

Gen z human equality act

[@stuartbritton7408]

I'd love to get married. The problem is that the girl I want to marry is going to marry a guitar man. I want to have three children, a dog and a happy home. That seems like an impossible dream now.

[@dragonmartijn]

... and you are that guitar man?

[@drsyedakiranumefarwabukhar2942]

Gen z shouldn't be homeless

[@gersomvanslooten9456]

Peter Hitchens paints a black-and-white picture. He defines marriage in judicious terms and disregards all good reasons why a marriage might be disbanded, such as abuse and intimidation. No one wants to stay in a marriage of these conditions, but under traditional laws, you were not allowed to divorce. This also impeded on your individual rights to liberty. If he wants the state to recognize a domain of life separate from the state's jurisdiction, then an easy alternative is to introduce a law. But his point is completely false. There are many things which do not fall under the state's control: we have a free press, we are free in what religion we practice, we are free in our taste in music, films, and other media; despite claims to the contrary we have a huge degree of freedom of speech.

[@gersomvanslooten9456]

@@EresirThe1st How does he know that someone "just feels like it"? There can be many reasons for disbanding a marriage. I've read some of the other comments in this thread, and someone made the fair point that a marriage of incompatible partners can lead to lots of fighting and eventually becomes a breeding ground for resentment. This is not beneficial to the development of any children raised in such an environment. His claim that the notion of a collectivized people is completely done away with through this practice is insufficiently proven.

[@barryfan9941]

wouldn't it be nice?

[@danf3201]

Wow, I replaced some of the words with "interracial couple" and there was almost no change.

[@2126Eliza]

dan f The central problem with the right, afraid of absolutely everything that doesn't matter and nothing that does.

[@abhimanyukarnawat7441]

Yeah reallly, it was us who killed people in gulags.

[@user-hu3iy9gz5j]

Why?

[@sm-xc6fn]

>le classy oxford black man

[@Jamiefearon]

What is the point of your comment? Personally, I was too engrossed in Peter Hitchens great speech to care about the colour of the person next to him. It's irrelevant comments like yours that give right wing and conservative politics a bad name. Go away unless you have an intelligent comment to make. Fuck the so called "alt-right"

[@ComeLeVent]

thats such a theoretically correct but really not - comment. the black guy has no business being there. Wrong part of the world and wrong place. Oxford of all places. Laughable.

[@ewanmcgregor5942]

>le sam hyde avatar shitposter

[@MrPancake777]

comme le vent what on earth make you think the black guy has no business being there? Fuck you and your racist comment.

@@ComeLeVent He's waiting to sweep up afterwards.

[@andybray9791]

The nicer peter tatchell

[@adambritain5774]

Simply. Peerless.

[@barnabuswizardspook]

holy shit

[@vaslav030547]

Taking the statement foreword. I am the wronged party so I should receive all the property. No Your honour I didn't pay anything towards the mortgage! I am the wronged party though.

[@drsyedakiranumefarwabukhar2942]

Gen z best intelligent generation

[@Edeskenney]

This is too funny watching this anti gay man who is a big old Queen.

[@JacobSnell1998]

They both made solid arguments

[@karl.weaver]

A man, the man?

[@damianlow302]

marriage has never been a private deal between two people. marriage is and always has been a social contract designed for the benefit of the society.

[@Pilgrim812]

Christopher, his brother, was the intelligent one.

[@adambritain5774]

Amazing that you've got to your age and still cling to Trot ideals. Perhaps time to grow up?

[@adambritain5774]

‘Intelligent’ enough to believe in the fantasy of WMD’s...

[@Hy-jg8ow]

Conservatives love collectivism when it suits them, state intervention when it suits them, but also like banging their chest about how rugged a specially indivisible unit they are - not bashing an eyelid by the imploding contradiction of keeping the institution upholding institutions (state) out of their communally enforced institutions of communal (state-like) origins, they simply use "society" when affirming control and "state" when disapprove of control. They love supra-individual forces to dictate and protect their sacredness totems, but then accuse the left of not being individualistic enough. The irony flies well above their heads and probably never read a line from the Ego and his own or from Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution.

[@sirlordhenrymortimer6620]

Hypatia well the biggest irony is leftist want freedom.

[@DarkAngelOfHellingly]

Hyπατία yes, interesting how the Conservative right are all for 'individual autonomy' etc at their own convenience.

[@paulturner9998]

@@sirlordhenrymortimer6620 🙏👏

[@yashagar4443]

I can't believe he is Christopher's brother

[@shaunburns543]

Did he write this speech to his own wife? If you’re reading this - leave him! You’re a long time dead

[@steveneaklor2990]

What do you mean?

[@callmeishmael7452]

This says volumes about you mr burns.