Married To The Law | E9: Hiring Nightmares Part 1

[@susanheld]

I use and recommend the 15-minute rule: you have to spend 15 minutes trying to solve the problem yourself so you don't waste other people's time, but then after 15 minutes ask for help so you don't waste your own time. Your learn to fend for yourself but also you don't just spin your wheels indefinitely when someone else could give you the answer (or at least a tip) in a few seconds.

[@thatjeff7550]

The cool/sad thing about the modern day work experience is if you don't know how you should do something, you have a computer that has access to AAAAALLLL the information in the world to answer your questions. I believe MOST new workers understand that and use it but it's those few individuals that don't think to Google something small like "How do I send a certified letter" that probably drive the other employees crazy.

[@adaroben1104]

​@@thatjeff7550While true, it depends on how quality you want to do something. How do you make macncheese? Other people's kids: google said to use glue My kids: family recipe I asked mom for

[@kristopherwilson506]

this podcast is such an underrated gem. the dynamic between Mike and Ashley is so entertaining!

[@michaeld226]

I love that Mike is so transparent and up front with people at work. I am basically the same way and I find most people appreciate that. Also some other people have said they love Mike and Ashley's dynamic and I agree 100%

[@GeorgiaOutdoorGuy]

Wells is so cute. So each week I end up watching these twice, once during the day right after yall post them, and then again that evening when ML gets home.

[@dawsonlindahl7427]

I will say, the jump from a file clerk to a law clerk (for non-legal people, I was basically a glorified paralegal for a summer while in law school) was so awesome, but also terrifying. I went from spending all my time ripping out staplers and scanning 800 page files to actually communicating directly with clients, and that was so terrifying. It was even scarier when my boss started to trust me and check my work way less intensively. But it was exponentially more satisfying and I learned so much. I just got an offer letter to come back for my 2L summer, and it just so works out that I can stay with my grandmother too. So no second rent, no grocery bill, and $25 an hour doesn’t seem too bad lol.

[@MenacingBanjo]

22:23 why is Ashley's smile during this part the cutest thing in the whole world???

[@MikeRafiLawyer]

That was AI generated for sure

[@DrNarcissus363]

Good episode, here's my hot take on new hires being afraid to be wrong as someone who is A) a principal at a medium size consulting firm and B) a university professor. In our company we mostly hire people from top schools who have 4.0 or near 4.0 GPAs on the assumption that these people will be the best workers. But what we've found is that these are the people who spent their whole life terrified of making a single mistake because one bad grade could ruin their chance of graduate school at Harvard and destroy their life! So they are the students who are constantly going to the professor to make sure they know exactly what the professor wants before they do anything. I've been in a bit of a fight in my university department because I give my students very limited instructions for papers to write and when I'm asked what format it should be I just say "Professional" or when asked how long it should be I say "As long as you need it to be." The University (and my students) hate this style because it's believed that students need to have 100% clear instructions so they know exactly what to do. But I want my employees to come into work being able to figure out what they need to do even when they don't have clear instructions! University teachers need to get better at developing curriculum that allow students to learn independence without risk of punishment (lower grade), as an important skill to go into the workforce. Current rules and guidance on how to teach incentive students to not be independent and to constantly bug their professor whenever they have an even small question.

[@adaroben1104]

Do you present this reasoning to them so they understand you're not trying a gotcha on them? You may underestimate how much extra work you're creating if they think they need to do handstands to please you when normal standing is good enough. Some people just don't work that way, too, but clarifying your reasoning would at least let them know the direction.

[@DrNarcissus363]

@@adaroben1104 Good point and I absolutly let them know that I am not grading on a specific format. I provide students with a rubric for the format that is something along the lines of (5/5 means that the document is structured in a way that is clear to guide the reader to the information they want and orientate them within the overall document, the length is appropriate to convey all needed information without being overly wordy). But I do NOT tell them exactly how long it should be or how the document should be structured. I make it clear that I am not looking for a specific format and will not take any points off just because a heading is in the wrong font or something like that. I tell them that the goal is for them to think about what a "professional" document should look like. Also, this is mostly for the junior and senior level classes that I teach, for Freshmen I will provide a bit more structure as I assume they have less experience in the realm of professional writing, so the goal for that is more to teach them some of the basics of what professional writing is. I also allow multiple resubmissions of essays after the first submission receives comments, as this better reflects the normal world of getting feedback on a report and making changes accordingly as opposed to simply being punished for a bad first draft.

[@adaroben1104]

@@DrNarcissus363 Sounds good and reasonable. Sometimes a shorter write is clearer and sometimes you need to get into the weeds for two pages to make a point. Flexibility and not doing busywork because of arbitrary expectations is efficient, some often depend on the signifier of length for judging thoroughness.

[@marcusrobinson1778]

i like the red font thing. similar to the no brown m&ms backstage for van halen. just to see if they read the contract

[@chrisoneill325]

"Striving for average" is my life motto 🤣

[@marshallguy301]

I love Ashley's Ralph Lauren bear sweater!

[@chimeragenesis361]

34:36 This sounds exactly like the Van Halen 'No Brown M&M's story, whereby an unusual detail is inserted into whatever the brief is, so you be can sure that your entire brief has been read, comprehended, & followed.

[@MulletDestructur]

I agree with the whole putting specific instructions into submitting your resume or cover letter thing. It tells me right away if you can follow basic instructions and also can you pay attention to little details that might otherwise seem trivial at first glance.

[@oscarcueto791]

It's funny seeing the contrast in what each person's experience in the workplace was. Being a teacher is nothing like any other job. Also, Ashley is correct most schools will throw a teacher under the bus the moment they get the chance if it saves their skin. So making mistakes is something you don't want to do most of the time.

[@AdamSkerven]

Great show, thank you. With respect, Mr Rafi, you look like Shawn Ashmore.

[@dirkdashing8545]

Hard disagree. He looks more like Aaron Ashmore.

[@taxburdett]

Often, in the public sector (schools, federal, state, etc), the only reward for hard work is MORE work.

[@jaxgumby]

Wells is wise beyond his years.

[@tavaunhinds5188]

Ok that red font was a big brain move. I mean I worked as a legal assistant and following the minute details can be a deciding factor on if your are at your desk at 6:30pm ripping out your hair wanting to go home but this thing has to be filed tonight

[@veric13]

Not in law but I have a small business as well and upward mobility is one thing I continually think about. I try to make it so the top in their position is enough they will be happy with for multiple years and try to provide benefits that will help their life improve outside of work. More vacation time is one. Few places seem to give more than 2 or 3 weeks a year.

[@Victoria-pl9yw]

I love listening to your podcasts! I am curious if you have started using AI at your law firm or if you think AI will significantly change the legal field in the near future! Thanks!

[@stvcolwill]

excellent episode! Thanks for sharing Wells!

[@bbharim]

I only ever had one CEO who was like Mike. Very rare. I was consistently fired by the other abysmal CEOs for COMPETENCE. Not wanting to honor contracts, not wanting to pay earned bonuses, not wanting to honor earned stock options, professional jealousy and failure to recognize future value once a project is completed successfully (by deadline, under budget). What part of the clients paying the bill delightedly do you not like? I worked for 20 years for these incompetents, making them rich. At age 36 I quit. I took me 20 years to figure out how to make ME rich and leave them out. But I did.

[@OldManBolt]

Another great episode and loved the ending!

[@DoctorWho14615]

Sure hope Ashley doesn't get fired from the podcast for sexual harassment!

[@AshleyRafi]

I have an in with the boss. Hopefully he lets it slide. 🤞🏻

[@Heather-fz6xe]

Love the podcast ❤

[@Kiwi0green]

“Zaddy” It’s not work place harassment if you are married! (And it’s true LOL)

[@Ltothe.G]

I do the same thing with our job postings with instructions--ALMOST NO ONE FOLLOWS THEM!! but now that I know you're willing to hire remote experienced paralegals.....

[@loicdah3974]

As a law student it’s great to hear from Mike about the ins and outs of private law practices (my goal is to have one in the future). Side note: I’m also into cigars. What’s Mike’s favorite cigar to smoke??

[@MikeRafiLawyer]

Changes from time to time, but this answer is always the same-if I could only smoke 1 cigar for the rest of my life: Casa Cuba

[@Rix.p]

Fifth, I have fallen in love with this podcast

[@danielkirienko1701]

Dude, Mike seems like a great boss.

[@MikeRafiLawyer]

We all have our days

[@cojofoplays1837]

as an employee i hate to say it but loyalty in the workplace is all but dead and its the fault of corporations and hurts the good employee and the good employer the most. i work for a great company i have an awesome boss and i feel good coming to him when I'm undervalued or overwhelmed but I think the majority of employees have to be as selfish as possible to protect themselves. i have known my boss for 5 years but if i was leaving he wouldn't know until the absolute last minute that i felt no matter what he did I would be secure.... its a shame because it only hurts the good people in both roles

[@MaryCarolStanley]

The not making mistakes is the same for administrators in school systems. Can’t make them … and admin are held responsible for teacher mistakes….. which leads to all sorts of issues that some admin push onto teachers. Broken system for sure.

[@jimcampbell5583]

Your wife is really 🔥 i love your podcast

[@maker7489]

Mike please make a vid on lsat prep!

[@MikeRafiLawyer]

I can do that. Used to teach Kaplan test prep.

[@khizarbadshah4527]

Just meassaged you using the form on your website. Looking for Legal Experience Before Law School Pre-Law | B.S. Business Administration | Minor in Criminology | Graduating May 2025 Legal Assistant/Paralegal - January 2023 - Present I am eager to gain hands-on legal experience before starting law school. I am available to work for $20 per hour throughout the summer and am willing to temporarily relocate. I am a huge fan of your work and would love the opportunity to contribute to your team. Looking forward to hearing from you!

[@klmbunny1]

So idea, tell us how yall met and about your family dynamic.❤️

[@MikeRafiLawyer]

We just recorded it! Was planning on using it next week, but this episode ended up being a two-parter. So give us two weeks I guess.

[@redondobeach7514]

The greatest cover letter I ever wrote was “Rescue Me” and that was it. I got hired lol

[@thatjeff7550]

Well, Mike and Ashley, you covered hiring of people but what about firing of people? Has Mike ever had that employee from hell that he couldn't get rid of fast enough?

[@MikeRafiLawyer]

Search voodoo doll. It’s a short, but it’s a funny story. I black out during the podcast and don’t remember what we talk about, but Ashley is sitting next to me telling me that we talked about it in Part 2, which will be next week.

[@jagriffin1]

More baby!

[@redondobeach7514]

Did you see State Farm made an emergency increase in LA after wildfires?

[@pegaseg70]

Sixth Awesome podcast

[@whitneyr.846]

The post office loses money like the U.S Military loses money. They don't profit off the services they use, which is why we subsidize it with tax payer money, because it benefits society as a whole, also like public schools.

[@matthewpickering8218]

Hello Mike! Random question: How many of the cases that you handle end up going to trial?

[@tengounapreguntita]

Spot on.

[@donaldpereira2652]

The 90/10 rule is real...10% of the crew requires 90% of my time.

[@davidruffjr6045]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@joeydalroh]

💜💜💜💜💜

[@noahhabbershaw8177]

Forth. Also have been loving this podcast. Keep up the great work!

[@ClaytonGames]

Pause, did I hear you say Ashley taught for 15 years? So she's not in her 20s??

[@AshleyRafi]

I identify as someone in their 20s. Does that count? 😂

[@danielkirienko1701]

​@@AshleyRafiyou gotta have that Gen Z lingo

[@Teddibob]

I’ve rarely worked with too lazy employees but I have worked with many people who had “a hole in their training”. Fill the hole, almost always, problem solved. Don’t have a preconceived idea about laziness and not everyone learns from the same data.

[@binodpandy8440]

❤

[@jacobside2656]

Continue harassing him!

[@AnanyaJindal-i8e]

First!

[@frostedgaming8107]

second

[@GeorgiaOutdoorGuy]

third

[@bumblingedit432]

Hey can you help, there is a channel that I questioned and they volunted to shut down completely. Foxx recovery. I'm not a lawyer but I think you may be able to help recommend someone to those affected and help them. I am sorry I made it more difficult because my response made them shut their channel down.