What if Ganondorf was a TOP TIER in Smash Ultimate?

Ganondorf is considered literally one of the worst characters in Smash Ultimate - no matter how many characters got buffed or nerfed (including himself), he's yet to ever really be considered a top tier threat in the game. So what would a "viable" Ganondorf look like in this game, and what's the closest we've seen that happen?
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🕹 Games: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Guilty Gear Strive, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Street Fighter V, FGC, Anime Fighters, Chess, Speedrunning, Dragon Ball FighterZ
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch brings together everyone’s favorite Nintendo characters such as Mario (Super Mario Bros.), Link (The Legend of Zelda), Samus (Metroid), and Pikachu (Pokemon) in one of the most popular fighting games ever made! The series is further set apart by including a selection of 3rd party video game characters from different franchises such as Persona’s Joker, Street Fighter’s Ryu, Final Fantasy VII’s Cloud and Sephiroth, and Sega’s Sonic The Hedgehog. Most recently the game has been updated to Version 13.0 where Square Enix’s Sora from Kingdom Hearts has been added as DLC to the game!
#Marss #SmashBrosUltimate #SuperSmashBrosUltimate #SmashUltimate

[@MasterAbeer101]

Ganon and Top Tier are two things that I could never imagine being together, but hopefully TOTK Ganon in the future smash game becomes viable

[@verfuncht]

I feel like if Sakurai is involved, they won’t change his Neutral B; and if he’s not involved, the game will be bad

[@Smnsnsnsn]

I hope next ganon totk ganon will be like byleth where a direction is a weapon

[@DocRoc94]

@@verfunchthe likely won’t be involved, and the game will be good regardless.

[@njlaw2583]

What happened to smash ultimate being the last game?

[@DocRoc94]

@@njlaw2583 anyone who believes that is naive. There is no world where Nintendo doesn’t cash in on smash again. 0% chance.

[@thesaxiest4480]

"Here I come, I am cinnamon" into reverse warlock punch is peak lmao

[@blacklab2k16]

My favorite Marss phrase

[@Psychoma99]

I love when he says that 😂

[@Pam234]

Ganon is LITERALLY a warlock. He has so much inspiration including projectiles, he could even have a teleport recovery. He even HAS a cape that he reflects magic back at link.

[@elliottaddison8116]

theres an amazing brawl mod that introduces a lot of new characters, there are 3 gannon versions in the game. One is based off melee gannon, one is based off ultimate gannon, and the last is a true warlock version of gannon, who is a heavy zoner. They gave either the melee or ult version the magic reflect cape, and that + float made them feel so incredibly fun to play.

[@OldManTastic]

I feel it has to be some sort of fireball

[@bryanvickers]

He can also fly. 😤

[@roxy7_]

Ganon will always be a top tier in my heart

[@Bieks1]

Always love to see the timbs edited on Ganondorf and the subscribe bit was on point too, editor's kinda cheffing it up on this one fr fr

[@nathanm6372]

I would gladly sacrifice some strength for even 5% more speed for Ganondorf lol. If you have the reads he’d be unstoppable imo

[@drsipp407]

So true. It’s so insane that Ganon can’t get a buff and yet we have dlc characters like pyra and mythra who have absolute top tier stats in every regard

[@nathanm6372]

@@drsipp407 yeah sadly Nintendo took pay2win to a whole other level lol. Anyone who denies it just doesn’t want their precious spoon-fed high gsp questioned 😂

[@nathanm6372]

@@jaydenhohman2590 never said there weren’t broken base game characters, nor that dlc characters are insurmountable with enough skill. They just have a lot easier time winning than even the most broken base game characters. No one would argue with that unless they use said characters and don’t wanna have how carried they are pointed out lol. I may be detecting some dlc privilege on you I dare say 😤🤔😂

[@stellarhex9341]

As a pythra player I can agree that she is very strong but Steve is the real problem. I don't have problems with link either. I play sheik but sheik online is not fun so I don't play her.

[@rarecrom]

@@jaydenhohman2590rob is the only really busted base game character I can think of, and he isn’t even really that good compared to aegis steve and joker

[@Mepphy99]

i think that making upB frame 7, wizard kick a reflector (+ a bit less ending lag) and frame 3 jab would make Ganon jump like two tiers

[@octaviodelbarrio]

More aerial speed would be a bigger deal tho. I mean, wizard kick reflect would be funny and the up b being faster would actually make him much better, but having more aerial speed would make his recovery and disadvantage a lot better

[@smelyely3353]

Make wizard's kick cancellable

[@Mepphy99]

@@octaviodelbarrio aerial and groud Speed too but considering how hard can Ganondorf hit i'd really be scared what making him faster would meant

[@Diamond_Aura]

Even just Ganondorf with Peach float would be helpful lol. Tho, imo I want him to be more inspired from Ocarina with like his magic orb. I know some mods have done that but

[@wilsonsecaur1015]

PM Ganon went insane for that

[@alexgonzalez2050]

Was thinking of a different way to implement that projectile, replacing warlock punch. If on the ground, Ganon would have to do two quick presses of neutral b to shoot 1 magic orb(only one orb on screen is allowed), if he does one press it could be like a backhand slap that could serve as a reflector(maybe a weak tripping effect can be added but idk). If hes in the air, he only does the magic orb but it can help him stall in the air for a bit and he can have 2 orbs on screen instead of 1. The projectile would have electric propperties so it can be a combo starter. And as a refference to the games, only Link and Toon Link can reflect that projectile with a sword attack.

[@elliottaddison8116]

@@alexgonzalez2050 his neutral B as reflector cape from the brawl mod is the best imo.

[@Dman25]

@@alexgonzalez2050 And also Young Link's bottle taunt lol

[@degenerateinthecloset]

they should make wiz kick the custom move from smash 4, that high profiles, and goes much more horizontally in the air

[@Goofzillers]

As a big Rickles fan, the Frostbite set was so sad to watch live 😭

[@whereisspacebar2991]

That reverse offstage warlock punch at the end was sliiiick.

[@rottentomatoplays]

If the one thing you could reasonably change for Ganon was his up tilt to a faster upper cut type move, that sent slightly up and away with scaling, I think it would make him substantially better as a character.

[@frogqueen1587]

Make it his old up smash

[@rottentomatoplays]

@frogqueen1587 was thinking like terry uptilt... 7 frame startup and still punishable if it whiffs... just would round him out a bit on his ground game more than the current uptilt. He just needs another fast grounded option other than jab, and a solid anti air option that isn't as commital as up air

[@GV-dg2lk]

Bruh; that would make him even more Captain Falcon 😑

[@rottentomatoplays]

@@GV-dg2lk who isn't the worst character in the game...

[@Mykahaia]

Side B superarmor and you can act (jump, upb or attack) after it; Keep his neutral B but make it like Byleth's where you can finish it earlier for less damage; I think these changes would make him broken

[@4tw_EpicYoshi]

Ganon and doc with the timbs will never not be funny

[@anonymous7024]

0:56 The glass shattering will never not be funny

[@neog8029]

"Here I come, I am Cinnamon." (Lamds the reverse Warlock Punch off stage) The absolute maniac madchad.

[@smitty7326]

i'm mostly impressed that you can so often find games that play properly. Since getting ultimate I've lived in 3 countries and multiple states in the US, and the only consistent thing has been Smash being often unplayable online.

[@GoldDragon20]

God, that joker is not happy after that warlock punch

[@Dr_Nig]

Currently contributing to a SSBU gameplay mod called Galeforce: we decided (because why not) to give Ganon slightly faster dash, a higher Mewtwo-like double jump, a projectile instead of Warlock Punch and a pseudo-counter on up taunt.

[@rileytharp6982]

Hmm a better out of shield, a reflector, and a little faster. Sounds like Kazuya

[@joshheinrich7100]

12:25 offstage warlock punch goes hard because ganon cant recover from that its so committal

[@yeiha]

Dude i love the sub ad your editors are peak

[@erikh5512]

Something that people REALLY need to learn is: You still lose GSP if you rage quit. It doesn't change on the victory screen of the person who stays, obviously. But test it out for yourself. Ragequitting/DCing loses you GSP, AND you get put in the timeout corner if you do it enough

[@FerousFolly]

giving him a real uptilt would be godlike, but honestly just making it so his side b doesn't end in special fall would be such a huge buff

[@papasmurph131]

That edit with the Tims was top tier.

[@julianlastname5730]

The tims edit on every kick is crazy

[@williamchen7644]

The BOOTS edit on Ganon’s feet is so good

[@TheMusicMan104]

also ganon needs to float bro he’s a literal warlock

[@tally.klecko]

3:17 that's probably the best one you've had yet. Idk why but it like... genuinely took me by surprise.

[@DerpinatorMan]

What’s the song playing during the first set he’s reviewing?

[@reallygoodsnusnu]

Make his f smash warlock punch, replace neutral b with a reflecting cape like in ocarina of time, remove the blind spot on up smash, and give a float after the double jump and that'll do the trick

[@AnIdiot49]

I always wanted to have the ability to float like he did in ocarina of time and give him some magic he is a warlock

[@WillPowers570]

Today I finally learned that Marss has been saying "Kaputz"

[@rpd_hyper7397]

What would happen if we give gannon the speed and frame data of mythra? (Keep the same moves)

[@JusJelly]

nairo vs light semi-finals collision 2019 greatest ganon set i've ever seen

[@narogmog]

Give him a actual double jump, make his side B not put him into free fall, and rework his uptilt to be a weak version of his old up smash. I believe that is all and I believe that would make him a solid almost mid tier. And like, maybe make his neutral B unblockable and ungrabbable? (also do this to all big super slow moves)

[@johnbingham5693]

This would be a good series actually. Would you consider one for DK or another similar character?

[@GonSSB]

For DK just make his grounded upB be frame 7 like Bowser, he would be a high tier imo

[@andresabbag3231]

Dk should have a walljump

[@johnbingham5693]

@@GonSSB yeah I mean, the super armour f5 is nice especially against mashers, but yeah overall a faster OoS would be great.

[@PaperGraysterYT]

@@GonSSBi wouldn’t say high tier because he would still have an awful recovery

[@killercore007]

Adjusting his hitstun (both normal and launched) animations to not have his hurtboxes stick out so much perhaps?

[@miguelcastro2164]

I just want ganon with sonic movement speed, and side B/ up B frame 1 out of shield

[@SergE1020]

6:31 I’m just imagining a more mobile sonic

[@cyanthermus5235]

Second I heard Frostbite 2020, I knew it was Rickles vs CDK

[@bigLs400]

5:10 Leffen, leffen once did this looooool

[@lilgoat6588]

Personally id give his dash attack armor and his down b like a trample effect at least make the down b beat projectiles

[@adamm5398]

Tht warlock punch really hit🫢🤣🤣

[@dddmemaybe]

Here's what I'd do. You give him his PM cape float with much tighter air control/acceleration(can go omni-directional) and almost as much max drift speed as a Yoshi. Up-air given an additional, low-placed, early hitbox from frames 3-5 that pops up (likely to combo into another hit of the same up-air near-ground OoS), a briefly invulnerable(at exit location) teleport up-b with great distance, b-air added with a projectile reflection hitbox(smaller vertically)- and his side-b travels ~25% faster and further.

[@supersmashdylan]

Oh man I was thinking of Collision 2019.

[@talesfromthemidwest]

if the Dorf's neutral B was turbo teabag he would automatically be S teir

[@epac1123]

Same video but with my boy doc please

[@bibbyboxx2219]

Man that CDK vs Rickles set brought back memories…I miss CDK

[@thomas_threat]

God DAMN that finish... As a ganon secondary, I love when someone brings the ruckus w my guy.

[@Rspknlikeab0ssxd]

Also nice Ocarina of Time reference editor

[@tysongrathwohl1164]

If Ganons up b had Roy up b angle he’d be broken

[@kenspeedway1572]

Make Up-Smash frame 6, make dash attack invincible and make that air-choke doesn't leave him intro free fall. That would make him viable.

[@A_Shut-in_NEET]

Ganon is so much fun to watch wish he was tourney viable instead we gotta watch steve, pythra, kazuya, cloud, and sonic....

[@professora1213]

Increase his running and air speed, then give Ganondorf and unstoppable recovery like an invincible up b that goes very far. BOOM DONE ✅

[@asherkime5910]

All I’m asking for is greninja physics

[@Sponsie1000]

in response to the "Just make everyone a little bit more mobile" comment,, that's exactly what Ultimate is compared to smash4! I think that's part of the reason why in this game even the low-tier characters can be kinda dangerous sometimes, because they all got their mobility buffed. I remember when the first Ultimate trailers started dropping and everyone was so hype by basic movement

[@schmidtyyy2026]

Lowkey a doubles tierlist would make good content…

[@ABCDjjw]

Any smash 4 vets from the customs era remember Wizard’s Dropkick? That custom was so fucking fun man I miss it

[@ghostraven377]

Nairo’s Ganon is fun to watch! Ganon is my favorite but I struggle against anyone and everyone with range.

[@wasabisniffles]

marss should play ssf2. Ganon gets a reflector and is INSANELY fun there

[@willashley23]

Give him wizard's dropkick from smash 4! It's like the developers KNEW how to make that move good and give him an answer to zoning but they decided he just needs to be bad

[@lastnamefirstname8655]

would be fun to consider.

[@Traylon]

12:24 he wasn't just defeated, he was deleted from the entire multiverse

[@spitfuzzy7826]

P+ has a lot of good things going for it, the MAJOR thing that I love is how Ganondorf is actually a warlock

[@Darockam]

Just give Ganon his neutral B from Ultimate S, aka floating in the air, and you've got a good character.

[@Rspknlikeab0ssxd]

Give Ganon Peach float and that's maybe enough

[@Sidney_TSG]

I've said it multiple times and I'll say it again. Give him float. (Peach float)

[@mrnubsdunn]

The Timberlands 🤣🤣🤣

[@smelyely3353]

I think what Ganon needs is honestly just some form of long-lasting revenge, sort of like Joker down-b but you can hold it pretty much indefinitely and just boosts the power of your next attack. You can no longer get camped out, and doesn't really change his game plan; you still have to guess right, but if you do, you get REWARDED. It's not like Kazuya either because your recovery is way worse and you don't have out of shield options or 0-death combos but oh boy would you not have to win neutral NEAR as much and it'll make people think twice about just mashing on you because you could just "revenge" at a moments' notice which might incentivize people to grab but that's getting in pretty close and you might just get jabbed. Also increase his grab range, he's big he deserves it. I think that alone would make it honestly pretty viable without changing the core Ganon experience. He deserves some free offensive conditioning

[@Zac-fu2qc]

He needs an up tilt, that’s what he needs, I would think one like pits but a lot slower, so like a slower and less hard hitting falcon up smash

[@nedcurfman3486]

Imagine if Ganon had turnips instead of warlock punch.

[@beboplays3357]

There is 2 ganons in my local who both make top 8 every week consistenly

[@realsatt]

6:05 I love that when Marss lists all these characters he lists all the ones that are the most fun to play of the whole roster. Ganon, Incineroar and K Rool. The shit characters are the ones you’ll have the best time with hands down

[@MrCBrewskii]

Someone send marss a project m clip of zesty dorf combo they gave him float, float cancel and a reflect with his cape.

[@noobsunleashed9703]

have you seen the mod that nerfs every top tier to be ganon tier?

[@DoritoTime]

Ganon with Zelda neutral B would be a mid tier by itself

[@thomasbrigham7411]

Give gannondorf peachs float mechanic and he'd be viable

[@isferbaad7367]

Give him a better recovery. Make him like 15 percent faster. Change up tilt to be viable for OOS

[@YoshiGaminStuf]

4:00 based bowser player

[@Tonjit41]

Let heavies have a few quick moves. They don't need to be so neutered

[@kennybosefus]

Ganon should have a charge shot. Omfg it makes sense canonically. Screw warlock punch... give me a charge shot!

[@zukodean285]

What if? He already is.👀👀

[@usern4metak3ns]

would be so happy if ganondorf had buffs and was viable as a top tier. better recovery, multihit options, up tilt and warlock punch better or faster. better frame data on more of his options. his down b or warlock punch should reflect. its magic after all.

[@ringss_]

Rob does NOT get worse in doubles, lazer is one of the most disruptive moves for the better, and his nair is just even more distracting

[@orionmilbury4817]

Ganon is my fav character and I played him rain or shine

[@AndrewVlogs69]

spider gwen GYAT

[@timothypulliam2177]

Wouldn't Ganondorf Up-Special be considered an out of shield option?

[@IcebergSSBU]

He already is 😏

[@dreamnail]

Dude honestly i dont care if ganon is bottom tier in the next game again i just want him to not be a falcon clone for the 5th time

[@Hachijo3GS]

More Ganon plz 😂

[@albert.s.m4022]

ganon with tough guy or whatever bowser has

[@S2MLzombie]

He is DEFINITELY cinniMON

[@stephenrichter8940]

It took way too long to notice the timbs on like every kick

[@saam7737]

One of my biggest hopes for Smash 6 is Ganon being at least high tier. They have SO MANY GAMES to take inspiration from and yet he's still a fucking falcon clone. Hes such a sick villain, one of the most infamous in the game, and yet he sucks. I still play him all the time, fun af and bad ass af.

[@i-kon3153]

You turned me into content 😢11:01 No more -t- rolling 😔

[@GabrylMD]

Years of doing my man Ganon dirty by still making him a light Falcon clone. All that magic, different incarnations. He deserves at least another version.

[@ninkstheultimate3376]

Ganondorf just needs to be a bit more like he is in Smash Flash 2. That uptilt mixup is all it takes, as well as increasing his air travel speed and distance. Then, just increase up b to go a bit higher, and grab on all hitboxes like cap falc. And boom, top tier Ganon.

[@Not_A_Legend]

Just make everyone ganon, then everyone will be bad

[@mrmediocre848]

And when everyone's bad, no one will be

[@OrashiTV]

Imagine all the zoner mains whining about Ganon reflector. . . That’d be glorious to watch lol

[@DukeKayn]

please just make his down-b actually have armor

[@jmurray1110]

Speed him up, remove volcano kick and warlock punch give him the dears man volley give him better OOS sure up tgat recovery, give him a float and a quick get off me took