Marvel Comics X-Men Reboot Rightfully Rejected By Customers

[@sebastianstark8517]

You hit the nail on the head. If comics were priced such that they could be the impulse buys they used to be, we could be more patient with books. Due to their pricing however, we cannot afford to be patient. Books need to be good on release, and if they are not, they need to go back to the drawing board until it is.

[@bigtomboye]

Definitely ✅

[@rootfish2671]

I always wait on graphic novel collections and stopped buying single issues altogether

[@peterburman5193]

It's our fault they keep making stupid decisions? Classic corporate BS!

[@aqdrobert]

Customers are insensitive to our board of directors. Corporate needs to send us to Comic Reader Sensitivity Training for officially mandated comic appreciation education, where we must discuss social revolution, gluing ourselves to comic store floors in protest.

[@AL-ws5yi]

I agree. It’s too expensive to give just anything a chance. Come out fighting or stay home.

[@garrettmckellar]

Maybe if the stories weren't decompressed to absolute hell we wouldn't have to give a "grace period" just to let the first story play out over 4-6 issues.

[@gavsmi6452]

A 'Grace Period'??? WTF?? This is Marvel! It's the X-Men!! They've had months to get ready. It's not unreasonable to expect them to hit the ground running and start producing quality off the bat.

[@resistancepublishing]

Wes, I’ve been saying it for years. The comic fan base are some of the nicest and most forgiving people. We are too nice and it’s costing us everything in the culture of comics. We are easily manipulated and it needs to change

[@christopherbyrdakaSuperman]

I know these writers are just experimenting to play with the what if or alternate angle and make it seem like it may or may not become the main line, but the big failure is the idea does not draw and keeps fans coming! You can't give a ish show, then it doesn't sell and you expect fans to like it if they give it a grace period! Even when they get that grace period, nothing changes, for example, some of our favorite heroes have lead teams, saved lives, single handedly saved the universe, yet they're not put in the position they've earned. They continue to hit, but can't break that glass ceiling! As fans we can't give these employees too much time, when you don't like something, you must put a time limit on how long you'll deal with it, then stop buying! They will notice and put things right as the sales drop and they'll have to scramble to raise the stock back up. They will scramble hard to get those fans back to buying the books. They need to understand that they can't kepp putting something in the fans faces thinking they'll learn to like it eventually, then continue to see sales drop! If the sales drop as the writers continue to put something in the fan's faces expecting them to eventually love it, then watch sales and stock drop, only when the company hands the warning letters, then they realize people aren't buying, so everything needs to change or restore back to bring back buyers again and sometimes it results in killing off some characters, starting, rekindling or ending relationships, marriges, stupid angles! Some what if plots, ships and other what ifs end up becoming the main reality, to finally get to that iconic status the company should have long been established if only the writers had listened to the fans! One good example, I was hoping for a mutant, non-mutant power couple for a certain character after reading one issue of Avengers, had a dream followed by a premonition of the two becoming the most iconic flagship couple that could've changed history and made Marvel the biggest company in fictional history! One of the characters have halfway reached that level of popularity, but the ship that one hero is in is holding that hero back! Other than that this hero has so far made that premonition come to fruition, she's done what comics have never done before! This one character is so popular that Secret Wars pre-retcon Beyonder, as far as I know was the biggest, most famous fictional figure since the dawn of comics couldn't reach close to what I'm seeing here! The strangest part is she is only one of the main characters, not a omnipotent being like the Beyonder, she's one of the X-MEN and my favorite, yet her fame is making her look absolutely all powerful by poularity! She is all over video game as a main character or a created mod being the most modded character coming from the comics industry, entering into the fighting ame industry! If they write thischaracter into a ship with a Avenger, who is one of my favorites, picture how sales in games, dvd or digital media and books will sell!

[@resistancepublishing]

@@christopherbyrdakaSuperman I understand exactly what you’re saying but after 10 years of bad writing and bad artwork, I seriously doubt that the industry plans on changing or want to turn everything around for the better and sell better comics. They don’t care about good storytelling telling. It’s more about pushing some kind of message. The proof is obvious. If they wanted to change, they have years of proof showing how bad sales are to change but it’s obvious that they don’t care to. I rely more on independent creators who have no choice but to depend on customers to put out good stories.

[@dwaynemuth8775]

Damn Straight!❤️🎯👍⚡️

[@christopherbyrdakaSuperman]

@@resistancepublishing And that is the misunderstanding of these writers being able to work with a well established company like Marvel, these writers don't have to start from scratch starting their own thing!1 When you start your own company from scratch, you have to sell big just to keep your head above the surface and hope your product sells big, but when a Image, DC or Marvel comes up and brings you on board, there is a protective grace period, but eventually they will let you know when a story is not selling well and they have to let that group know, your stories are not selling. You see Marvel is obviously watching games like Marvel vs Capcom 2 and it's telling them which characters are selling and who isn't. They see this, looking at the work done to the books and that is what they go on. They go into the boardroom, have their meetings and show the demo graph of which character who is causing the most people to rush to see and to have a chance to play that character for example if you lookup Mvs C 2 and Mugen, it's Rogue who you see the most and they treat her higher than The One Above All Who according to Marvel who created her is the GOD of Marvel! How many fictional characters you know have grown so popular that they surpass the fictional creators? Bugs Bunny is great, but Warner Brothers is still above their character, Mikey Mouse is Walt Disney's flagship character, but that still keeps Mickey in a certain place, Batman Wonder Woman Aquaman even Superman are the royalty of DC ,but DC is recognized as the head and those characters are the frontline, but that's it. Rogue has done what all these characters as well as the cosmology, she has become more loved and favored than her own company. Now the company surprisingly is ok with that because she draws, but if she didn't the management will let the employees know at some point the clock is ticking, raise sales or we're going to have to let you go. This also includes stories!

[@christopherbyrdakaSuperman]

@@dwaynemuth8775 That's right, If you lookup Mavel vs Capcom2 You see why Marvel to my surprise allows Rogue to be utilized outside the Marvel world. She is doing the company extremely proud otherwise they pulled the plug and told Capcom not to use her anymore as a fighter. She sells and now the writers must now have great selling stories or else they will let you go! At first they give the writer time to get it together, then the grace period is eventually over at some point!

[@themultiversalmagpie7827]

A grace period only works when the reader has some faith it might improve, do we honestly have any faith that X-men will ever improve?

[@bobmularky7456]

I finally gave up after the Bendis run.

[@EvandroACruz]

No. Krakoa killed the franchise.

[@gavsmi6452]

The last couple of years of Krakoa makes Bendis look like 80s Claremont to me.

[@davidfarrington4308]

Ultimate Spider-Man is not what we asked for. Ultimate Spider-Man is giving us kind of what we asked for.

[@bobmularky7456]

It's a glorified What If?

[@chribel1]

I just like art and action scenes that’s it

[@StudioDragoonX]

​@@bobmularky7456Agreed!

[@Toki-Ralte]

what's your point?? you just contradicted yourself

[@BlaBlaBla-76]

@@Toki-Ralte no he didn't. We want Peter and MJ together, married, in the mainlline Spidey books, not in an alternate universe series.

[@arthurcurry2003]

To cite an example recently I read a reprint Secret Wars #4. In that single issue I got action, drama, suspense and even romance. ALL the characters were in true form and I got to see The Avengers, The Fantastic Four, The Molecule Man, Ultron, Dr. Doom, The Absorving Man, The Hulk, Spiderman, The Enchantress, Galactus … IN ONE SINGLE ISSUE I got to see all that action!! At no point in time did I get ANY political or LGBT or any feministic agenda message in there!!! It was magical to re read that.

[@dayneinsayne]

2015 or 1984?

[@arthurcurry2003]

@@dayneinsayne the original 1984.

[@PubeStache]

Unfortunately Marvel and DC keep hiking up the prices of facsimiles, since they know they'll sell!

[@CoolCATs2814]

Prices are way too high at retail. It's just price gouging. DC is doing the same thing with Absolute Power.

[@bigtomboye]

Yeah ... I often look at comics in the library because the price point for nonsensical badness is too high

[@maxmazzotti6651]

But spawn is still 2.99

[@potandpoliticswithmr.broph1420]

A bunch of bigots who hate me for my gender, skin color, and sexual orientation wrote a comic book. Yeah, hard pass no matter what they write. Marvel and DC are the Buffalo Bill( Silence of the Lambs) of the comic industry. Killing as many of your favorite characters as they can just so they can wear em like a skin suit over whatever self insert bullshit "message" they want to push. Thanks for the news boss, anything that is bad for Marvel or Disney makes my day a little brighter.

[@longtsun8286]

I agree. I'm Asian-American, yet WHITE people have FALSELY ACCUSED me of being "white supremacist!!!" because I disagreed with Marvel Comics and Studios' decision to swap classic characters' gender, race, and sexual orientations. FALSELY CLAIMING the manga I read and the anime I watch, are "Sexist, racist, homophobic and transphobic!!!" will NOT make me go back to Marvel Comics and Studios

[@Tyler_W]

I'll do you one better than Bufallo Bill. They're the Whisperers.

[@arc7375]

The only people nowadays that are victims of discrimination against gender, skin colour and sexual orientation are straight, white men.

[@carl0maldonado46]

To be fair once Hickman left most people stopped caring… I did 😂😂

[@Tyler_W]

Same. I didn't have a problem with the changes he made because I knew he actually had a story in mind. I was also fine with it because the subtext of the story was pretty clearly saying that all of the bad things they were doing were, in fact, bad. They were basically living in plant-based Brave New World. Once it became obvious that most of the X-Men writers genuinely thought orgy island was an actual paradise and a positive thing, and once it became apparent that the office had completely derailed the story I was interested in, I had pretty much checked out. Hindsight being 20/20, I stopped actively paying attention 2 years ago and didn't realize how much nonsense had happened since then.

[@tammydj9941]

I reject the coming X-Men books reboot, the incompetent writers and artists and especially the good for nothing marvel management who keeps on pushing woke bullshit on the comic books. Until all these dumb persons are uprooted from marvel and DC, I'm boycotting these products. I'm fed up. I'm not tolerating all these woke bullshit.

[@PrimalistOptimus]

You can't give THOSE people or their representatives any lead way. It gets destroyed properties.

[@smoore6461]

There is no reason to give this a chance, we have seen time and time and time and time and time again what these things turn out to be. They say the same thing about new star wars or Star Trek shows. "Give it a chance" or " You have not even seen it yet, how do you know it sucks"? HISTORY is how we know it's going to suck.

[@charlesharrison1907]

They strip away characteristics of Tim Drake and now he can’t even hold a book.

[@JamesBartlett-u2o]

When a new creative team comes on it shouldn’t be a relaunch. There are creators I trust and are excited to work on these properties but I would still like Spider-Man to always be Spider-Man. It’s just not like that anymore. I won’t crack open a Batman comic because I have no idea who the hell Batman is for the last 25 years outside of an animated series.

[@Slitheringpeanut]

As long as the real problem remains in Marvel, this won't change. They need to get new writers and let the editors do their jobs.

[@bigtomboye]

Agreed 💯

[@Tyler_W]

Get better editors too.

[@Slitheringpeanut]

@@Tyler_W We'd have to know if they're bad first. They've never actually had to do their job. They're not allowed to.

[@RobertBaker-cg4md]

Used to be that when a comic started to lose quality whether art or story wise if you gave in a few (3-5) issues it would start to improve because they could see sales & interest going down & started course correcting. It wasn't a decade ordeal. But as one of those collectors who spent money on comics for over 3 decades who left when i was clearly & repeatedly told i wasn't the customer they wanted anymore don't blame me for lack of interest. Blame the "modern day audience" who was supposed to take my place.

[@MutantGenius]

Not only will I NOT be getting any of these new X-books, but I plan on burning ALL my Krap-koa comics in my backyard firepit this summer. I'm confident it will be as cathartic as I'm planning on it being.

[@Vcansado]

The only money that usually comes out of my pocket and ends up in the hands of people who hate me for everything I am is my taxes. That said, I hope that Disney/Marvel and its defenders and apologists continue running with all their might into the abyss of bankruptcy and oblivion.

[@chloe59k]

I don't give any entertainment a grace period I wait to hear spoilers inorder to figure out if it's worth my time money and morals

[@OdanUrr87]

I still have around 170 issues of Claremont's Uncanny X-Men left to read. I'm in no hurry to get to present day.

[@namelesswhocares8648]

Not a grace period wes A grace decade Its been that long

[@blairdonahue3351]

With the exception of Peter David coming in to finally tie up some long-dangling X-related plot lines in X-Factor, the X-world from 2012 onward is abysmal. (Shout out to Mike Carey doing an excellent job with Rogue and X-Men Legacy for years from 2006-2011) In terms of a specific plot point to start from, cue up when the young versions of original X-Men were brought forward in time until now. It would appear that three ideas were and continue to be implemented despite not working for over 10 years now...villains aren't villains...everyone is gay with shaved hairstyles...and brand new focus group generated characters are necessary in every single reboot.

[@ryanclark6602]

Yes, Mike Carey’s run is very underrated.

[@Superhead_collectables]

Peter David kind of started the X-men down this road when he made Shatterstar and Rictor gay out of nowhere.

[@SlashTheWeasel]

I'm not confident on the new X-Men comics. You two are right, nothing has been earned and we the customer is expected to pay $6 approx. for one book when they have three books coming out in the beginning and X-Men books have not been well-written over hte past five + years. I'm going back to classic X-Men. I got start with nice hardcover that I found on sale.

[@strixvaria]

Seriously?! It’s not my job to buy their stuff or support it. I buy entertainment. I am not entertained.

[@bigtomboye]

Bingo 💯

[@disalazarg]

Pretty sure people have been giving them a decade-long grace period by now.

[@haterdave1]

How can I give you grace when you reboot so soon?

[@chuckgibson3973]

I've heard this shit before. Support the bad comic, or they'll never get a chance to give you the comic that you want... You don't reward and support behaviors you don't want repeated. Any parent will tell you that. If you supported that book heavily --- they'll knock off 3 more just like it. Look at the 90s books for evidence of just that! They won't change a thing until the lack of sales demands a change.

[@toddholland7511]

Heterosexual Iceman was ACTUAL CANON. Heterosexual Tim Drake was ACTUAL CANON. If “Head canon” is wrong,WHY the gay wash? They make characters gay based on FAN FICTION! Shatterstar and Rictor weren’t gay. Rachel Summers and Betsy Braddock weren’t gay. GTFOH.

[@MichaelGriffin-wv5tx]

And if you speak on it you a bigot lol.

[@josesarango3408]

that's a mountain of facts bro 👍

[@floydlholt9829]

Why can't 🌈 writers create they own 🌈 comics instead of turning traditional straight comics 🌈?

[@abps9947]

Most people don't care about Tim drake

[@MrRawnch]

Amen. Take this garbage somewhere else

[@GastonSuarez-o9q]

Somebody liked the krakoa era?

[@kalgrove6426]

I haven't read modern day X-Men since 2011 and those i borrowed off a friend. The last good modern X-Men comic i read was when Cable protected the kid mutant.

[@benparrish672]

Dont give them $$

[@bigtomboye]

Show business is Do or Die, imagine asking for a grace period 😂😂😂

[@Philosophical24]

12:08 ding ding ding this all describes me, and I completely agree with you I go to my comic shop less and less now and I feel bad for the owner because he and I have a good customer/owner relationship and I stopped going to his shop less (until ultimate Spider-Man by Hickman came out, the reunion damn near bought me to tears lol)

[@ljkelty1766]

For first time in 30 years of reading X-Men I think I'm going to pass on the rebooted line. I borrow the trades from local library at point. The previews of this stuff makes Chuck Austen's run look like a masterpiece. And it actually was better written, and drawn than the past 4 years of X-Men.

[@markstevens7023]

If the first issue doesnt interest me im out plain and simple.

[@ronaldbourgeois1255]

Especially ASM and the Uncanny XMen when they made Iceman gay when he’s been straight for 60 years.

[@holychestermole485]

The way they outed Iceman i'll concede was poorly handled in general. The revealing a previously straight character to have been a in the closet gay is good for drama. But it does have ripple effects on the characters history that are rarely properly addressed. As it should affect every person he ever had a romantic involvement with as much as him. If they had simple revealed he was bi, there would be no such problem. But there's so much less drama in such a choice. But let's be honest it's not like Iceman is gay jokes haven't existed since back in the 60s. It's not like they conjured the idea from out of nowhere either. But i know for some reason comics attracts a bunch of morality gatekeepers who want ANY gay element not there at all. I don't care much for morality or gatekeeping.

[@niccoloproia3678]

Man when i heard the point about JLI i thought "Did this guy even know the history about JLI's production and Giffen's original plan?". First of all the idea of the JLA they had back in the later 80's is completely different from now, nobody gave a crap about the JLA back there because, with the Detroit Era, they became a group composed for the most part by C or Z-listers. Second, the original idea of Keith Giffen was to BRING BACK THE ORIGINAL LINE-UP OF THE JLA, he wanted a team composed of THE greatest heroes that DC could offer and he wanted all the members of the ORIGINAL group BUT he was denied to use them: from Superman to Wonder Woman everybody said no and the only available members were Martian Manhunter cause he had no book so Giffen could use him without asking to anyone and Batman cause Dennis O'Neil HAD PITY for poor Giffen and let him use AT LEAST 1 A-lister. Third, beside the more comedic tone a lot of the elements of the JLA are still there like big threats such as Despero and the drama with the members of the league. The guy writing the article didn't know jack shit about JLI's history.

[@bigtomboye]

Hm interesting!

[@fdawg78]

I've been a comic book reader and collector for a long time. I have always loved X-men, Spider-man and Batman but in all honesty, I stopped supporting all of these in recent years. I stopped reading and collecting X-men with House of X/Power of X. I stopped caring about Spider-man with the whole Spider-verse idea which basically made Peter Parker completely irrelevant. All and all, I stopped these because I couldn't recognize the characters I grew up with that I used to love. I'm open minded to letting the author try new things, but when said writer completely ignore cannon and remove everything that made them who they are, that's when I draw the line

[@longtsun8286]

The comment on individual comic book issues' prices, nails the issue in the head. Why should I spend that much on a floppy with a single chapter of the story, when I can get the trade paperback with the entire story, for just a little more? It's similar to the reason people aren't going to movie theaters- not even people who don't have streaming, like myself- why buy a ticket to see a movie once, when I can buy a Blu-ray disc and watch it an infinite amount of times, for just a little more?

[@zemox2534]

People watch movies in cinemas because of the experience of seeing a film on a big screen. Just because you do not go to a cinema does not mean everyone is like you!

[@longtsun8286]

@@zemox2534 Enough people are like me to put theaters- and the studios in turn- under threat of bankruptcy and going out-of-business.

[@holychestermole485]

Because grifters gotta sell the narrative that the problem is all the (insert offensive or woke) stuff here.

[@salmack8842]

You guys are correct.When comics were 12cents you didn't mind so much if the story sucked you bought it for your personal collection.I have thought for years they have flooded the market and because of it also the stories. Great artwork will always be around great writers, well we can see the difference.

[@emeraldsayles8025]

Manga is selling like pancakes 🥞! While modern comics aged like milk

[@thisisobviouslybait]

I only drop in and watch these videos cause I find it funny that people are still bitching about american comics when this has been the status quo for a decade. Manga is killing it and not full of this force nonsense. Yet instead of just moving on to what is giving them what they want they stay around like an abused wife and just complain about it. Funny shit.

[@emeraldsayles8025]

​@notanasshole8164 Thank you! Stellar Blade is coming up this week!! Let give the SJW clowns the mega sized middle finger! Buy Manga, watch anime, and roast the hell out of these devils. Stan Lee once said " Comics are stories; they're like novels or anything else. So the first thing you have to do is become a good storyteller."

[@hauntedvoyager7806]

These clowns expect good faith from readers when they’ve done next to nothing or even ANYTHING to earn that trust.

[@JamesBartlett-u2o]

It’s a shame that the X-men have been destroyed by activists. They were diverse and relevant when being country wasn’t cool, if you know what I mean. At the end of the day I’ve actually exhausted that every group, or character sub class within these companies needs to be re-launch or re-imaged. I am musing on the fly but it used to feel even after years of continuity, that they were real characters with real lives. Now when I encounter a character for 40 years they are unrecognizable. What’s the point of even trying to get to know these characters in five years they gonna be completely different anyway.

[@Tyler_W]

I blame the Singer movies (which, to be fair, I do really like, the man himself notwithstanding). "Can you try not being a mutant?" A big problem is that too many modern writers never actually read the X-Men from decades past or understand them and don't understand the differences between allegory, metaphor, allusion, or something as simple as theme (becaise they're not good or even competant writers). X-Men was NEVER an allegory for most of its history. Even some of the more painfully on the nose stuff like the Legacy Virus wasn't a 1:1 parallel to AIDS. Claremont evoked ideas from the Israel/Palestine conflict, but nobody could honestly say that Cleremont was ever trying to be as reductive as saying "mutants are Jews." Good scofi/fantasy writers allude to real world things in order to give their stories a sense of groundedness in reality, not necessarily to say, "This is specifically and exclusively about that." The franchise alluded to real world issues, sure, but it becomes something absolutely nonsensical if you remove the mutants from their own particular sci-fi context and try to make them a 1:1 allegory for literally any one particular group of people. Taking X-Men as allegory for xyz-ism/phobia to it's furthest logical conclusion is how you get a comic as conceptually stupid like Black from Kwanza Osajyefo. If X-Men is supposed to be "saying" anything, it's that if humans and mutants, two different groups with valid grievances and conflicts of interest, can learn how to live harmoniously and work toward a common future, then how much should we in the real world when our differences are so much more trivial in comparison? That's called a universal theme, and it's that kind of approach that made the X-Men appealing and accessible to so many people in generations past. Anyone who stops to honestly and seriously think about it for more than 10 seconds would actually come to realization that any attempt to make the X-Men a straight up allegory quickly becomes extremely provkematic.

[@Eyrrll]

Comics are too expensive now to experiment with something that sounds okay-ish… it has to sound GREAT!

[@bronzeagekid8223]

I've been reading comics for almost 50 years now. Seen it all come and go and try to come back again but always worse. This new era is going to be overpriced excrement. I've learned my lesson on this "grace period" garbage many years ago.

[@21Million]

The current Marvel writers are like MOLD: they gradually expand into the good canon and consume it. When the next bit is consumed, they need something good to work off because the last bit is not bad, and so they move on to the next good canon and moldify that too.

[@anthonymusgrave569]

The only X-Men series I’ve enjoyed in the last few years was John Byrne’s ‘fan fiction’ of ‘X-Men: Elsewhen’. 32 issues of the ‘real’ X-Men posted for free on his website. Sadly he ended it with a number of plots up in the air, but you can’t really complain when it is for free! Every one of those individual issues was better than the whole of the Krakoa era. I mean light years better!

[@stevehnatko1050]

I was a fool, I thought at the time, One More Day was going to lead to an amazing Mephisto centric story for Peter to get his life back. I never thought they would still be where we are after 12 years. It boggles my mind.

[@Tyler_W]

It's even worse. It's been SIXTEEN years, not twelve. We're one presidential administration away from this terrible, unresolved character assassination being TWENTY YEARS OLD. There will be people who will be in college or in the workforce who were born when that story came out.

[@goosey235]

Actually, CBR/Brian Cronin, the onus is on the creators to put out a first issue so awesome you are hooked immediately. As a reader, I am under no obligation to grant a "grace period".

[@nwoking666]

I've given up on anything new by DC and Marvel....BTW I hate post One More Day Spider-Man, deeply.

[@Tyler_W]

I will die on the hill that there are good stories and good ideas post-OMD in spite of itself, but one thing remains true. There hasn't been a consistently, universally great Spider-Man run since One More Day. THe closest we've ever gotten was the time when Chip Zdarsky wrote an ancillary Spider-Man series (whose name I can't even remember). The idea of getting consistently good Spider-Man books for years ongoing hasn't been a thing since the early-to-mid 00s.

[@thehumancomet]

Brevoort has delivered the Underwhelming X-men line.

[@HarryMwaanga-o6f]

Give grace to bad comic books so that these shitty writers and editors at marvel can craps on us all over again.

[@Barbel1th]

I gave up on monthly superhero titles a couple decades ago and in the intervening time all of the discussions I've had with or listened to from people who are still invested keep telling me I made the right decision.

[@HeyImRosko]

Comics lost my personal grace back when Jane Foster Ther continued past one year. At the time, I was the same as Doc, "eh, give it a year and things will return to status quo". Thor has never been properly restored

[@holychestermole485]

Define for us what your "proper restoration" of Thor entails then?

[@HeyImRosko]

@@holychestermole485 i ain't here to accept homework assignments

[@21Million]

How is it that the ARTISTS are SOO GOOD and awesome these days but the WRITERS get worse and worse? What is up with that?

[@spinningtornado4543]

Anyone can learn how to draw and the tools used nowadays help improve the final product in ways that can only be dreamed of 20+ years ago. Anyone can learn how to write but self awareness and knowledge on different topics can make the big difference between a good writer and bad one. Editors usually help writers but none of the X-Men franchise's have been doing their jobs since Krakoa started. The only tool that can currently help such writers is chatgtp and AI doesn't always make sense or have a consistent quality in what it produces.

[@ScienceJesus]

I disagree that many artists are all that great. I'd say there's a few dozen really good artists but there's 600 monthly comics. So the % of good artists is really really small. And like 80% of the really good artists aren't doing monthly comics. They're variant cover artists.

[@InfamyOrDeath-__-]

I just feel sorry for all the people that were hopeful for this reboot to be good, it was definitely wishful thinking. I knew it was going to be a total mess, there’s just no way for them to produce anything of quality with all the current editors, simply shuffling them around to different books is going to do nothing. There needs to be a total house cleaning, everyone must go, it’s the only way to fix this mess we’re currently in.

[@redram6080]

I'm glad Krokoa got destroyed but before it got destroyed they should have cleaned house and got new competent writers and editors to replace the old crappy ones. This reboot would have been so much better if they did

[@chribel1]

X-men should have ended after house and powers of x

[@EvandroACruz]

Krakoa Era needs be erased of 616 universe. Otherwise there's no hope to the franchise anymore. These characters don't are heroes anymore.

[@AL-ws5yi]

Not to be black pilled but I no longer have any hope for any of these reboots.

[@Tyler_W]

​@@EvandroACruz if competant writers actually did something interesting with the ideas set up in HOX/POX and appropriately retconned some of the nonsense, I don't think the entire Krakoa era needs to he retconned. The problem isn't so much the fundamental ideas at play, just the terrible execution and what all of the cringe and boring backs turned it into.

[@cicolasnage5684]

This new relaunch is comparable to those “mr incredible becoming uncanny” short videos.

[@jonnjones8263]

Thanks for reaffirming my decision to drop Marvel comics entirely. Looks like things haven't gotten better at all. I might support Ultimate Spiderman but other than that I'm not touching the trash they put out.

[@littlewolvie2396]

I'm one of those readers (together with my wife) who completely quit Spider-Man and all linked books after One More Day (with the exception of the 2 Renew Your Vows titles, which we actually kinda enjoyed... But as you guys have pointed out, the bar is so low these days). Haven't regretted it for a single second. Spider-verse , Venom-verse, 50 different Carnages, wannabe Spider-Man Miles Morales, MJ Jackpot, lesbian Black Cat...? No thanks, good luck with it, not for me, it can all burn down to the ground as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that could get me fully excited onboard again, is like a Crisis like reset of like the last 10-15 years, basically since Disney took over, which is unlikely to happen. 😒 I've given enough the last couple of years. I've given them chance after chance after chance, spending way too much on basically crap I didn't enjoy. Done with it. I'm only ordering titles I'm damn sure about, definitely avoiding some names along the way. They have made it crystal clear. I'm not the kind of fan and customer they want. So, I guess they don't want my money anymore either. I'm sure there are plenty of pink or blue haired SJW on X waiting to fill the void and overflow the comic stores, putting Jim Lee & Chris Claremont 's X-Men #1 record to shame... 🙄

[@uxm4life94]

Until they retcon Krakoan era out of continuity the franchise is permanently dead. Real X-men fans despise the fascist plant clones.

[@holychestermole485]

There's some fun pot and kettle games to be played with that.

[@uxm4life94]

@@holychestermole485 Krakoa is by every definition a ultra fascist state- segregation, racial exclusion, collective race blame, dehumanising perceived others with propaganda, condoning atrocities committed by their own kind, dishonest retelling of all history, irrational hatred of perceived others, state controlled economy, militarism, myth of the state and ultra nationalism. It is a bizarre revenge power fantasy exclusively for hypocrites who long to be the fascists they imagine they're fighting.

[@zachquam]

I only read current spawn universe and Conan books. Might do the ghost machine U as well.

[@MrBracey100]

I haven't purchased any Spiderman comic since One More Day.

[@DJDarksaber]

Same here it was the worse Spider-Man story I ever read and on top of it I had a direct subscription from Marvel and the books still arrived bent up

[@EvandroACruz]

In my opinion even a great creative team with good writers just cannot make something really good after Krakoa Era that destroyed the book soul and all these characters. Xavier become a full villain in the latest issue of Fall Of House of X. How we can manage to make the things be good again when all these guys are terrible persons now? It's impossible. Even a Geoff Johns or a Grant Morrison couldn't fix the books without a complete reboot of the entire Krakoa Era. There's no more hope to the X-Men comics now. Marvel just screwed the entire franchise.It's over.

[@joeparrigen4982]

Though it's not brilliant original, I would go with the whole plant clones theory, like Dok suggests, or just admit to themselves that they lost their way.

[@EvandroACruz]

@@joeparrigen4982 Yes they are all plant clones, the 2 Laura Kinney show us that so the real X-Men are dead. But I don't think that X-Men care about if they lost your way. Be heroic is a secundary thing for them now.

[@EvandroACruz]

@@joeparrigen4982 Yes, the 2 Laura Kinney show us that the real X-Men are long time dead. And I believe that the team don't care about be heroes anymore. This is a secondary thing for them now.

[@holychestermole485]

Isn't that dramatic? Mutants had a sucky existence for years, so they decided to try to be isolationists and in the end it damn well blew up in their face because of course it was eventually going to. Why isn't that an interesting story outright where characters have to deal with the consequences of the Krakoa era? Personally i think its the whole black and white morality nature that makes life hard for you people. You want these characters to tow wherever you draw the line. So like what the mutants crossed that line, so now you can't find them interesting anymore? Really, i'd take hanging out with the fictional x-men, then some of you real people at this point.

[@EvandroACruz]

@@holychestermole485 Superheroes comics always was about black and white morality. There heroes and villains. The X-Men are so tainted at this point to be heroes. Why humans should trust in them again after so many deaths?

[@aqdrobert]

J Jonah Jameson: The Marvel Universe is so bad, I consider current writers A MENACE!

[@daishikaze3986]

Giffen and DeMatteis loved the characters for who they were and it shows, They made funny situations but the characters stayed who they were. They also balanced the humor with actual stories with some stakes to them, it was still a superhero book, not a parody. The Current Crop of idiots don't love these characters and it shows, thats why the fundamentally change them at the drop of a hat. Most of them don't even know who these characters are until they are handed the gig, so they read the wikis that aren't very well written and make up their own shiz based on how little they understood from the wikis. And here's the thing, why should they care? the last generation spent a good chunk of the 2000s killing people off for shock value. What did they learn from their predecessors? To Shit on the crowd that came before.

[@TmoneyOGGamer]

Incompetent creators getting upset that we don’t like their garbage

[@mattchewhacker6412]

Comics should be $1.99 but they aren’t and you usually have to “order ahead” 3 months early to get most of them! So the comics medium I have loved for almost 40 years will now continue to shrink because everyone who works in the industry (I am mainly talking about the big two) are ran by people with a certain mindset. The industry needs creators from ALL types of back grounds and mindsets to make interesting stories as it was back in the day. When the new line of X-men books were announced I knew I would not be buying any of them cause if that’s the best marvel has to offer I’m done. MacKay is ok and the art teams are good but that’s it! Some old same old

[@odinson99m]

15:07 in: AND I would add, the characters in JLI still acted like their characters INCLUDING BATMAN. Meanwhile, Superman and Wonder Woman, in their own books, were still Superman and Wonder Woman. And, comparing modern "creatives" to Giffen, Byrne, and Perez -legends - is ridiculous. So, whoever made that weak point about "changes" is gaslighting.

[@Rorysammy]

I enjoyed Jed Mackay’s Black Cat. It was fun, referenced a lot of marvel history, and didn’t have to make Felicia the bestest ever to tell a story.

[@milesfashaw9615]

I agree with this wholeheartedly other than throwing Cody Ziglar in the mix. He is actualizing the potential of Miles Morales and I’m starting to enjoy him as a character. He has my trust

[@jeff0247598]

Ooof. I haven't bought a new X-Men comic since long before the Krakoan era. The "X" titles have gotten so muddy and entangled that I just gave up. I'm enjoying the Energon Universe so far and I liked issue #1 of DC's Penguin...we'll see where that goes.

[@kevingallagher188]

I never enjoyed Keith Giffen's justice league. It was only after New writers started leaning back into a more classic version of the group that I wanted to read them. The only exception was justice league Europe because of the superior art and stories. Which he didn't write.

[@MerrimanDevonshire]

The wallets stay closed.

[@stevebarnes8368]

Nah, they lost their way a long time ago. The last book I gave a grace period to was Ed Frisson’s Predator run - I’ve been a fan of Dark Horse Predator for 30 years and the first page of the Marvel run had a Predator being bested in blade combat by a human named Theta. Gave it five issues and threw the last three down halfway through. (Shouldn’t have bought issue 2.)

[@gqd1975]

I will keep my eye on Jed and Gail's runs. But that's about it.

[@regishel]

Headcanon is great, if it wasn't for Headcanon I wouldn't still love Spider-Man and Star Wars, if I didn't block stories I hate out of my brain I wouldn't still care.

[@bigtomboye]

Haha fair point 😊👍

[@Tyler_W]

This. I don't hate everything from Disney canon with Star Wars, but it's 2:1 in favor of the bad or forgettably mediocre. Not everything Expanded Universe was good either, by any means, but at least it still respected the characters and ideas that made Star Wars what people loved about it, and when they added completely new characters, eras, and ideas, it always tried to actually add to the mythos instead of overwrite, ignore, and replace what we liked before. I recently got the first three (of idk how many) trades of the Dark Horse Knights of the Old Republic comics for about $20-25, and I'm looking forward to reading them.

[@you2449]

At this point it s/b called The Effing Exhausting X-Persons

[@tstockel]

I remembered years ago when "common wisdom" said Star Trek series didn't get good until season three and I always thought that was laughable. TOS did not need two seasons to get it right; it was right from the get-go. Same thing was for comics, too. Does anyone remember the original Thunderbolts with that amazing reveal at the end? What about Kurt Busiek's and George Perez's Avengers? Don't tell me you have to read five or six issues for a comic to get good.

[@grysygonth]

Stephanie Phillips , Collin Kelly, Geoffrey Thorne. LOL! That is so funny, just imagine these clowns on an x-title. Talk about dead on arrival. So who is really writing these new books?

[@TheOldMPClub]

It's the idea you and Doc think you are somehow not engaging in the exact same annoying behavior as CBR here is what makes this just sad.

[@RicardoVillalobos80]

I learned my lesson in "giving it a chance" 30 years ago when I bought the first 30 issues of Spawn and the first 18 issues of Gen13 and every issue sucked but I keep thinking:"maybe next issue will be better; the general idea is good they just need more time to polish the storyline"

[@Tyler_W]

I just watched the HBO Spawn series for the first time a year ago (that got cancelled too soon on a freaking cliffhanger), and I had to remind myself that the McFarlane Spawn books weren't half as good and that I shouldn't bother with them. I've heard good things about Spawn stuff written by later writers, though.

[@RicardoVillalobos80]

@Tyler_W I agree on the comics. I never got to watch the cartoon except one episode and just like the comic and all I read from Image back then VISUALLY is great but story wise is lame.

[@RicardoVillalobos80]

I guess that's what you get when the company is run by artists and not writers (IMAGE). Everything looked great but stories ranged from just ok to childish. I wonder who did the "ghost writing" on Spider-Man (1990) for the McFarlane issues now because nothing I ever read from McFarlane besides that run works for me. In my opinion the guy is the Zack Snyder of comic books and toys

[@briangrindrod4364]

I used to give DC and Marvel one issue to convince me why I should buy the next one. Now, I don't even give them one page.

[@BatFan1]

LOL "grace period" LOL "We promise, these books will be good....someday. In the meantime keep giving us your money"

[@Tyler_W]

"A grace period" has not only not been earned, they're straight up gaslighting us into accepting the idea that what all of these characters we love are anything but the characters in name only at this point. You can almost pinpoint the year when the Big 2 started welcoming in Tumblr shippers, activists, and YA writers into the industry around 2014, and it's just been downhill from there. Someone elsewhre in the comics described them like Bufallo Bill. Accurate, but I'll do you one better. They're basically the real-life Whisperers.

[@TheOldMPClub]

Clearly had nothing to do with years of so-called "comics fans" talking about how much better the movies were than the comics. That clearly would never want them to attract new readers. Hell they would never want the people who obsess over their fandom instead of the people endlessly bitching about it.

[@jasonlauritsen5587]

Doom, Molecule Man, and tnd Richard's children failed to survive the incursions and everything was wiped out. All.of these civil war 2, Hydra Cap and Krakoa crap stories are just very bad faux fan fiction.

[@LucLightWolf121]

I stopped giving a damn about anything X-Men after they canceled CABLE AND X-FORCE. I heard that the Krakoa era written by Jonathan Hickman was good. However, after he departed it predictably went to dogshit. Marvel Comics fan readers are going to have to eventually come to terms with the fact that these books are being written by knuckleheads who despise them. They think they're better than everyone else, but the evidence would show otherwise.

[@ChillMonger]

I left this Amazing Spider-Man run at #2 but I will be patient for Tom Brevoort X-Men. My optimism will be activated for all of the issue #1's. I want to try to like them even tho every bit of evidence tells me the series are doomed for cancellation by the 2nd trades.

[@BrianRidgway-u5g]

Fun while it lasted, people. Grow up and accept the fact that someone not only played with your toys, but they shoved parts of them into their unwashed orifices and then left them scattered all over the lawn after boredom quickly set in. Back issues, independents and collections are the answer. Stop giving these corporations money to insult and humiliate you. Talk about spousal abuse syndrome....

[@holychestermole485]

They weren't your toys. You were just a fan.

[@mrlaw2729]

I feel so happy that im just now getting into comics. Im gonna enjoy the classics as long as i can and ignore the modern shit

[@RiddlesOfSteel]

I'm eternally grateful that there is a deep backlog of great runs and events to cherry pick from to avoid this modern bs.

[@Tyler_W]

That's what I've been doing. I've liked comics since I was a kid but didn't have the money or ability to get then with any regularity until I started college about a decade ago. I got into some of the early 2010s Marvel and DC stuff. Yes, they did have good things. DC faltered for a few gears there and bounced back with Rebirth before internal nonsense ruined a good thing. I stopped following recent DC after I saw the handwriting on the wall in 2019. Doomsday Clock felt like a good ending for my investment in DC as a universe. Marvel fell off the deep end after Secret Wars in 2015, so that was my head canon ending of that universe too. I've been mostly picking up trades of older big 2 comics and trying to find good indie comics ever since.

[@edwardhipkiss281]

I liked the current Transformers series after 1 issue. I liked Duke after 1 issue. I liked Cobra Commander after 2 issues. I liked Titan's Conan comic, a character I'd never had any interest in, after 1 issue. If they can do it, why can't Marvel? What makes them so special? 2 issues max. I'm not a charity for your poor decision making.

[@randosaurusrex]

I'll just stick to the old trades from now on.

[@Tyler_W]

That's what I do when I go to my LCS. I just wait for sale does or when I happen to come by and pick up trades or larger collections of older comics. With rare exception, I don't buy anything from Marvel after Secret Wars 2015 and nothing from DC after Doomsday Clock from 2019. Those are adequate end points to their respective unicerses, I think. The odd book that happens to have been good after those points are head canoned to have happened before lol.

[@fortcastellan1730]

If I don't like a non-married Spider-Man I shouldn't read anything post One More Day? Your proposition is acceptable!

[@TheJohno95]

I'm NOT going to be buying the new X-Men book. If five years down the road, I hear people saying how awesome it was...People I TRUST...I might go back and get the back issues. But I got took by the Hickman/Krakoa era. X-Men had been wrecked by years of Marvel trying to make them suck to get even with Fox. So, even though I didn't want to read fifteen pages of tech pages, I was willing to try to give the change a shot, hoping that Hickman could do what he did with Fantastic Four...Do his own thing and bring it back to a decent status quo when he left. But it didn't happen with X-Men. The characters are in a worse place than they started. I won't lay that on Hickman, since he hasn't been involved for a minute. If I had to guess, he would have probably had it turn out that they were imprisoned in Krakoa and it was just putting out clones to draw in more mutants. And by the end, we would have our original X-Men cloned and back to what they were before Marvel butchered most of the team because of...Fox envy. Now, I don't even give a crap. My local shop went out of business and I don't buy enough new books to bother with a subscription service. I'll just stick to collecting old books. It's sad that you can buy Bronze Age books on Ebay cheaper than you can buy a new book.

[@themaker2149]

I have to laugh and I'm not laughing at you Wes I'm laughing at the state of comics. Ten years ago I was a surefire hundred dollars a month for the comic book market but now I'm down to maybe 5 books a month depending on the month and that's only out of habit. I wanted to come to X men I wanted to be read Spiderman and the Avengers people like me want to give these companies are money but they don't want it.

[@victoriapagac]

ive been buying the trade of books i havent collected for litterly 20 years

[@jgiudici6]

I’ve been reading Batman for years and like you said I’ve put up with changes recently. Like okay let’s see where it goes but seriously Batman comics need to go back to normal, enough family drama, being broke, zur and failsafe and catwoman. Let’s go back to the dark knight/ greatest detective era of story telling

[@holychestermole485]

Batman only exists because Bruce Wayne had family drama and he keeps intaking teenagers that all have their own dramas.

[@philthekill8142]

Thanks for all the great content Wes !