Marvel Rivals Learned Nothing From Overwatch's Biggest Flaw

[@CoachSpilo]

this is probably too harsh, there's likely some tank heroes that will age well (Captain America/Thor IMO certainly have potential), and the support cast is probably decent, but this game desperately needs more than 15 tank and support heroes.

[@StarCrow77Gaming]

Doctor Strange is the only fun tank in my opinion

[@huxsTF]

No it’s true tank is ass

[@bludragnflud]

I'm my friend group's tank player and I agree with you. I find myself gravitating back to overwatch even though my entire group switched to rivals. I just don't find any of the tanks scratching the same itch as the tanks in Overwatch even if i feel miserable in overwatch

[@Sephibo]

In my experience I’d argue hulk is pretty fun after you’ve learnt him, specially his ult but yeah generally tanks have been pretty boring

[@BiggDaddysCheese]

​@Sephibohe's alot of fun to play but you eat dmg like a fat kid eating french fries. If they made his hitbox smaller he might be more fun

[@PWNDotcom3299]

I hardcore agree on Wolverine being made a Vanguard. Give him like 400 health, upgrade his passive bonus life to match, and then make him restore health off of every claw attack he hits. Wolverine is all about his durability in his healing factor within the lore, but hes super squishy in-game.

The fact he wasn’t a tank from the get go is legitimately stupid and shows huge favouritism towards dps from the devs

[@jhNUUP52]

100%

[@sebastianrodriguez8992]

I feel like he could've been fine as a DPS since aside from his incredible healing factor he's known for he's also known for his claws that are able to cut through basically anything and his very aggressive fighting style so he could've been similar to iron fist where he has some healing and stays hyper aggressive

[@Zathren]

Storm could have been a stradigest too. Personally?! I think there shouldn't be three classes. And everyone has 200 to 400 hp.

[@Jaguar-Hamm]

And give groot hook ability its what groot do in comics and movie bucky's hook doesn't fit for his kit , give bucky's e ability drag half distance like junker queen did

[@drkatz1192]

Spilo: “Rez is fun, but there’s no good visual or audio queue for it.” Adam Warlock: “BORN AGAIN!!!”

[@redeemr]

I think he means for someone being rezzed. It's pretty easy to be like "oh shit, I'm alive again?"

[@Spyduhmahn]

That giant sun ball must be part of the stage

[@aaronburr956]

The number of times i didnt realize i was revived is insane. I once spent 10 seconds watching someone not moving and thinking 'Great, they are afk' and then it turns out to be me. ​@@redeemr

[@bigode4582]

​@@aaronburr956 you have the attention span of a goldfish, ong

[@andreasbackstrom7703]

@@aaronburr956 I don't agree, kind of a you-problem. Pay some attention, it ain't hard to tell

[@beingbag2606]

Venom was billed to me as being "like wrecking ball" but doesn't even have 10% of the skill expression ball does.

[@HarryHairdo]

Exactly what happened to me

[@damianvaldez9390]

That’s what I felt too and I love it. Ball in 5v5 is the lamest thing in OW2. I hope Sombra gets buffed again.

[@КириллВинокуров-б6з]

Spider Man does though. He plays more like ball than Venom. Even though Venom's kit comes off as more similar to ball

[@Dios_of_Autumn-1999]

​@@damianvaldez9390I dont get this ball hatred. Ball seems fun why do i see this confounded opinion everywhere?

[@beingbag2606]

@@КириллВинокуров-б6з agree with you 100%. Spiderman hits the mark much better than venom does. Maybe if they gave venom extra swing charges and shave off some health they could make him feel more skillful without being the same as spidey.

[@ext1ncc898]

“All the tanks are a worse clunkier version of sigma” oh no

[@1tzRay.mp4]

when spilo asked chat why is sigma fun ? and chat responded with feet xD

[@muleboy3537]

It's funny but important to recognize that's a casual answer from a casual playerbase. Stop trying to minmax these games into something more than wacky hero shooters. Rivals will truly not have learned anything from OW if it goes down that path.

[@d3w222]

@@muleboy3537ow league was worth tens of millions once upon a time and still rakes in hundreds of thousands of views. esports is important.

[@MrBreakdownx]

I was genuinely curious because that was the first time I've ever heard someone call sigma fun. Don't get when the narrative for that changed.

[@gl8862]

@@MrBreakdownx he is fun in 5v5. sigma 6v6 is so fucking boring

[@Agitatedform]

​@@MrBreakdownx He's kitted and strong but not fun to play at all. Basically a pick to win tank.

[@ovyle]

They keep making the same mistake, giving dps 50 characters and then the tanks and supports 5 with barely any releasing every 2 years. People are already discussing role lock, the same thing they swear they hated in overwatch.

[@paulakroy2635]

I just want to say that people ignore that the extreme causal/ marvel fans were already annoyed by the tanks/ supports in this games not feeling like marvel heroes they are based on. Mainly Hulk and Magneto. But also Loki. They complain about characters are made to fit roles. It’s easier to sell a fantasy when characters are duelist

[@Agitatedform]

Bro the game has just been released. There are already leaks for new tanks and supports coming up. Marvel rivals will be able to out deliver overwatch on characters because they don't have to put in effort to dream them up. Unfortunately overwatch cannot compete on the content side because it is more original in terms of designs. Rivals will have a larger roster of heroes in the coming months. That doesn't mean they'll all be good. It does mean there will be more options and sooner.

[@Tabako-san]

A loud tiny minority doesn't like role queue. We know this because open queue has always been an option but nobody takes it seriously and only like 10% of the playerbase even play it casually. People confuse the internet as the place where the normal average player discusses things. The normal average player enjoys the game and doesn't go on Reddit or Twitter to talk about a video game, people who despise and hate a game are far more likely to talk about it online so minorities seem much larger than they are.

[@Deusaga]

@@Agitatedform Nah they should have released the game with 11 tank, 11 dps, 11 support heroes. Some tanks and some supports can be more dps-lite/like. But they NEED to be even across the roles. Or you'll get 5-6 dps babies whining for people to play support/tank. And even if you enjoy tank/support (like me) you can easily get bored playing the 1 or 2 heroes that you like. Because 99% of us players don't 'like' or are attracted to every hero in a role. THere is always one or two that we want to play. Then we get bored. But if there's 11 heroes in the role, there will be more options to choose from and not get bored.

[@paulakroy2635]

@@Tabako-sanI think open queue in overwatch isn’t balanced at all. That also said preferred queue is a solution, maybe giving a buff to have 1 healer or 1 tank so 1-4-1 becomes viable. Maybe there is a solution where everyone wins.

[@wysp8178]

Finally someone talks about hero design in Rivals. People are going to slowly realize that the tanks have no spark and the supports have way too much sustain. Why does every character have 4+ abilities with few of them being satisfying or skillful.

Because they only cared about having them feel like the superhero and doesn’t consider they had to be a functional hero

[@opticalmoose8091]

Fr, in almost every hero’s kit, there is an ability, which makes you question “…why is this here?”

[@demifolk8940]

because they’re designed more like moba characters than ow heroes, thats the thing you guys are missing here. i get smite and paladins vibes from the kits. varied kits, with abilities that are made to do one main thing. ow, on the other hand, has fewer abilities that have varied uses. very different design approaches

[@uriahthegreat5004]

Counter picking is an issue ow2 created. Yes it existed, but it wasn't as brain dead as just selecting a hero and the enemy gets turned off but rather how u play and who you play with. You think just swapping to reaper in ow1 would delete Winston when Dva is literally with him or the Winston is just straight up a better player? Why we acting like ow1 never existed and trying to gas light us into thinking it was something it wasn't?

[@matheus_brunelli]

​@uriahthegreat5004 what the hell are you even talking about?

[@jaakezzz_G]

it blows my mind that they made more than twice as many duelists as vanguards and strategists

[@Raytheman581]

Not me, if you look at every game there's always more attackers because that's what people like to do the most, and unfortunately its easier to make most of the marvel heroes attackers cause that's what the majority of them do.

And certain ones literally shouldn’t be in the duelist role. Winter soldier is an off tank. I know he’s not a giant dude but that’s his functional role. Storm is a support, you could have easily made her m1/m2 heal and added a heal to her speed boost amp and I think literally hard buffing her kit with those changes and moving their to strategist is what she needs to feel strong (or literally double her movement in the air my god she’s so slow it hurts) Wolverine is a tank, magik is a tank, Iron fist is halfway there, namor feels like a weird kinda space control tank-esque hero who plays cart and objectives well Half the dps role could be relocated and I don’t understand why games like this insist on making everything about dps

[@gobbagoo]

Why, people always love dps more so it makes sense itd have the most characters

[@RellshouldBsleep]

It blows my mind how it blows your mind everyone wants to be Michael Jordan not John Stockton

[@RacingSnails64]

Lol right? It's funny to see people champion it as the Overwatch killer yet it made one of the same exact mistakes as Overwatch.

[@chiefinasmith]

None of the tanks provide enough damage to really be a threat. Even Magneto’s charged shot barely does shit.

Fr magnetos got the same awful passive design as strange where his whole kit feeds back into an ability that does *nothing* I don’t understand why they’re so terrified of tanks having CC when supports can solo heal multiple tanks’ worth of damage alone, we need to be able to do *something*

[@opticalmoose8091]

Having a Zarya shield, that only feeds into charging your right-click, which charges up on its own, and does not do much at all even at the highest charge is so bizzare.

[@VladStopTalking]

Yeah that’s not the problem. That’s called balance. You guys are too used to OW where tanks are just fat DPS.

@@VladStopTalking It is the problem. You just don’t recognise that overwatch tanks are “fat dps” because you either need to have damage that threatens to kill someone or insane amounts of sustain and CC or you’re literally just an ignorable wall. And that’s all that the tanks except venom (who’s got the damage to burst through sustain) and Peni (Who’s can hard CC someone every 3 seconds) are Yeah they’re tanky, you won’t die, but you won’t do anything either, you can’t make plays or take risks or show skill expression the way tank players want to and if you’re not playing straight up GOATS. Which is enabled by strong supports more than anything else. They’re pretty ignorable for the most part Like captain American is a hero who you can genuinely fully ignore in a team fight and as long as your supports bother healing he just runs around pressing buttons and absolutely nothing actually happens

[@MartyFriedmanJr]

thor absolutely does.

[@T1J]

you really start to appreciate the polish and fun factor of overwatch when you play other games. usually in a new game like this I can find one or two characters that I find fun, but 90% of the characters in OW are fun and feel good to play.

[@streammin9872]

ily my video essay king

[@dtg9k355]

I dont appreciate overwatch at all cuz its not fun, it stopped being fun 2 years ago like did you see its recent patch

[@Beard739]

Mauga main 😈

[@dayneinsayne]

@@dtg9k355 Oh no! Orisa has more armor! Good thing I know how to play Zarya!

[@volktol4432]

Nah, I played this game and, while I already knew. Truly realized OW2 is boring and unfun trash. If you still play OW you’re a bum fr

[@nim0152]

Honestly the biggest problem the game has compared to Overwatch is that it isn't optimized well. I get around 70-120fps in Rivals and around 200-310fps in Overwatch with lowest settings in both games. Rivals just doesn't really look better for how bad it runs.

[@theuigauss]

My brother in Christ I wish I had your problem I'm over here at 30 fps

[@SpktraSK]

@@theuigauss don't put the game on ultra performance. That makes it worse for some reason. Put it on balanced

[@theuigauss]

@@SpktraSKdoes it thank I'll try it but I doubt it will help my PC is very outdated I'm building my new one but it's gonna take a while

[@ZachStarAttack]

there's a good config file for ez fps​@@theuigauss

[@okyeahbutwhythoe1804]

same, I can get a consistent 60fps (highest my monitor can do) even with decently high settings in a 12 player ffa no-cooldowns lobby, meanwhile rivals struggles to do 40 at lowest settings and regularly drops to 15

[@coolshirtkid]

this game needs serious improvements to cooldowns and feedback

[@indeboss]

While playing as or against a tank, it truly doesn't feel like there's a strong sense of identity for all of them. With ow tanks the gameplay and things you're gonna look out for are gonna be quite different but with MR it's kinda just meh: it either just jumps around or has a shield. Personally, Penny seems the most fun because you get to change your position a lot while also managing your web and mines (although sometimes it gets too mindless). But, as Spilo pointed out at the end of the video, it truly feels like they didn't make any design changes since the beta: only the numbers, which sucks

[@libertyprime9307]

Every tank "jumps around" in MR except Groot & Magneto, which waters down the role because none of them actually feel like the heavy ground tank. There is absolutely no one in Rivals that scratches the Reinhardt itch. Venom is similar to Ball with absolutely none of the cool grapple tech. Hulk is like Winston with a shield ability that makes less sense, absolutely terrible M1 range, and the most awkward Leap ability ever designed in a video game.

[@Zathren]

It doesn't matter the game. First person, 3rd, hero shooter, moba, no one wants to play tank. Most folks aren't that selfless to take agro but not get kills.

[@libertyprime9307]

Do you play Overwatch? They get crazy kills.

[@senseiitanaks]

​@libertyprime9307 yeah but they went 5v5 coz queue times were in the dumpster due to tank

[@d3w222]

@@libertyprime9307tanks def get more kills in ow2 than ow1 and partly because the design philosophy changed severely regarding the tank role and 5v5

[@kush2023]

@@libertyprime9307 they do in rivals too i be getting 25+ kills as groot let alone people like cap or thor

[@Swordstealer101]

Yeah. I play a lot of tank in OW for fun and I enjoy the fantasy of ‘taking the bullets’ but it’s a playstyle that not a lot of people are gonna enjoy

[@reallyjusthalo]

As a Peni one trick, I love playing her and I think shes super duper fun. BUT, to play her right, you need to do the same setup every time and if youre not youre playing her wrong. I like her design as anti dive/flank but I wish they adddd something to her kit to be alittle more impactful (even with the stun, mines, minefield and mobility). Maybe they should change her ult to be more impacful.

[@THE_INFECTED]

You could play her as a front line tank and still works fine just need good healers tho lol

[@reallyjusthalo]

@@THE_INFECTED I actually do this when pressuring out backlines (hawkeye, widows, supports). Her bunker and take space playstyle is so good for thjs

[@THE_INFECTED]

@ yeah I don’t one trick her but I played her in Shin Shibuya, she’s like the Winston fro Gibraltar in defend

[@jcgihj1057]

I honestly think Peni has too much already. Stacking her mines in clever locations insta-kills squishies, she has self heals, has mobility on a short cooldown, and has a stun on a short cooldown. And her ult allows her to engage when she doesn't have anything set up. The only bad thing in her kit is the primary fire. Oh, and her team up ability allows her to fight up close if she doesn't have mines.

[@reallyjusthalo]

@jcgihj1057 I agree especially on the primarily. Do to the healfest that happens in games sometimes it feels like throwing pebbles at people. I'd say shift some dmg from the mines to the primary to make it more viable (rn the primary is the either the same or slightly less dmg than a melee attack)

[@boshiwoshi]

i really really hope they either improve the tanks, or bring heaps of new fun and interesting tanks. it sucks queuing with friends when tank is a role we have to rotate around cause no one wants to play it.

[@thenotsogreatape933]

Someone finally said it, I've tried MR as a plat tank in overwatch (sigma main usually) and even though magneto is very similar to Sigma, he feels horrible to play, I've tried other vanguards like venom, peni, cap and thor, and I don't feel anywhere near the same satisfaction as playing tank in overwatch, every tank feels incredibly weak from a damage perspective especially if you do not have a team-up. Getting solo kills on vanguard is a Sisyphean task it feels like everyone has great mobility or sustain with almost no outliers. Support/strategist is a different story, I think most supports have interesting designs enough, and it is certainly the most beginner-friendly role in the game but I also feel strategists are bound to the performance of their team in this game than in OW. I know I'm worse at Rivals but the skills should at least carry over, tank is my best role in overwatch yet in Rivals its my worst by far.

[@paulakroy2635]

Good strategist should be bound to their role. Plus rivals gives them a lot of play making potential in other ways and doesn’t have as many brain dead ones as overwatch ( seriously overwatch has so many bad support designs). Tanks I kinda agree the one thing I’ll say is that Thor is very much that itch once you get a high enough skill threshold on him

[@JustAJauneArc]

Honest to God, Thor is a monster once you figure out how to play him. Straight up rival my DPS's in damage consistently, sometimes beating them. Two things you wanna do while playing Thor: aim to have his F (his awakened state) up as often as possible. Next: Aim for their support and their DPS even if you're in the frontline, while you're in your awakened form. Bear in mind Thor's lighting strikes GO THROUGH ENEMIES. Try to hit enemies in a line, so you're hitting both the frontline AND the backline, but AIM FOR THE BACKLINE. He can frustrating vs characters with more mobility (psylocke, iron fist, scarlet witch, spider man, and iron man), but if Thor ever catches them lacking, they're dead fast as hell.

[@huckmart2017]

Bro luna snow is so fun lol how do you not like her? Her ice clap is so satisfying to use. Just sniping mobile heroes like spiderman mid air is so sick. Her ice ball is pretty sick too.

[@cyr2097]

He's not saying she's not fun, but more so why would you play her over Supports that are similar to her in Overwatch 2.

[@mrlunar62]

@@cyr2097because the OW2 supports r unfathomably boring compared to MRs

[@taf.m6461]

​@@mrlunar62 i dont think you really believe that, lucio, kiriko, ana all so much more rewarding for skills instead of just cooldown dumping and having instant immortality on ultimates, the dps are more fun in this game but supports absolutely not

[@mrlunar62]

@ they r still way more boring compared to MRs. Ana is just stand and shoot until u hear OR kill, kiri is the same, Lucio is just damage + either damage or speed. In MRs u can heal AND do damage at the same time with most healers, u have WAY more impact on the game, and u can do both speed AND heal at the same time. Instant immortality? Mantis can be killed in her ult. Adam can be killed in his, Luna star can be killed, like pretty much all of them can be killed, like Loki too. wtf r u on about? Have u even played the support role or the game at all? The dps is always going to be more fun in any game because u have no other responsibilities other than getting kills.

[@opticalmoose8091]

@@mrlunar62 found the bronze player 1) Ana requires good positioning due to zero mobility; also well-timed anti-nade is crucial to get value out of her; also landing sleeps on flankers is make-or-break 2) Kiri has potential to be an independent flanker, but you have to land the headshots to have value; also Suzu is a gamesense check to save it for the important moment; also high mobility is never boring 3) Lucio is boring now??? Literally the hero most famous for their ridiculous montages????

[@Spyduhmahn]

Cap shield is the accretion, if rock is meant to be the KO catching move, so is Cap's shield. I hunt around the map to find the 1-1s to help my duelists finish, then like the real cap I get my duelist to join another fight. I also do a lot of backline protection as Cap, to prevent cocky Iron Fists and other divers. Idk I just have a fun time being a sort of dad character helping all my other teammates as I bounce around. I do not play cap as a 1-1 character, I play as a distraction, controlling the enemies by forcing them to contemplate if they want to fight my giant shield for nothing at all, or try and find another fight.

[@Deusaga]

That's kind of how I play Thor sometimes. I'll chill back at a choke and throw hammer, until I see someone make a mistake, dive my backline, are completely out of position, see my DPS go in etc, then I dive em. I don't do what Spilo does, even if it is 'optimal'. Hold all cooldowns for F. That's not fun. I do it every now and then when I can but I don't stay out of a fight just to force it. It's just so fun to bumrush enemies with charge, swing, charge, swing, charge, swing haha.

[@5falltv895]

A 70 dmg auto shot is NOT accretion lol

[@Badoofhmz]

This is how to play tank. Take damage for your team and distract the other. If cap, thor can hit "combos" and kill people easily it would make him no different than a dps. This is the problem that ow faces every role does equal or more damage than dps. Look at how many dps heroes are played in ow open queue comp. Sure it might not be fun for some people to be enabling other characters in that case go dps then.

[@Spyduhmahn]

@5falltv895 to me it’s just more like the “I gotta make sure you’re dead” shot. I did the same with sig, also for stun but ya get me, it’s a similar purpose

[@Spyduhmahn]

@@Badoofhmz bingo, it comes down to how much you want to play just for “your own fun” and how much respect you have for your teammates. If you got that “I’m just so good you all play around me and my choices” tank, or maybe even this genre, isn’t for you

[@CaseyGumball]

Ok hear me out, Groot is very fun for a few reasons that I don’t think many people have figured out yet. 1. You can cancel his left clicks with his melee which by itself wouldn’t be that big of a deal BUT when you do that it keeps his 3 swing melee chain going which ENDS WITH A KNOCKUP, what makes this better is the fact that you can cancel his melee into any of his abilities, so you can knockup and guarantee his right click dmg, knockup and use the time they are falling to get a wall behind them, and it basically doubles his dmg being able to string left click with melee. 2. His walls allow so much flexibility you can block iron man ultra with 2 high walls, you can box people in with a wall and a ceiling and his e, you can get high ground with his slanted walls or just by looking down and walling, you can do a wall on the ground when running and block people off, I might make a video about all of this later tonight because I havnt seen anybody do this consistently but I believe Groot may be way better than people realize.

[@GoodRNG]

lol

[@myerstro]

@@GoodRNG💀

[@michaelle4031]

As a Groot main, he's fun but the other characters are more fun. Most likely you will be dueling the tanks since your a front line character. And if your the solo tank or your other tank is diving, then you cannot kill anything yourself simply due to how tanky the tanks are and the sustain supports have. Also, I wish I could build walls farther away since it's so hard to wall off people.

[@uzuvibe5420]

I agree groot is real fun

@@michaelle4031groot and strange need short antiheal on their dps abilities

[@Baaagel]

As a tank player, I just want to be able to deal damage or actually be tanky. In Rivals I feel like I have none of those.

[@MrBreakdownx]

I mean only some tanks should be that way. A tanks job isn't to deal damage it's the make spac and set up kills for there DPS.

[@lunadead]

Why do people acting like tanks need dmg to be fun when your entire point of existence of the role is to soak up dmg and create spaces, helping the team make picks. OW2 is in its current state because of this thought process.

[@guilha1506]

Play Strange, attack melee and E combo can do lots of burst

[@MrBreakdownx]

@lunadead thank you. Most tank players don't actually want to deal a bunch of damage. We want to get value in other ways like creating space and setting up kills.

[@doomtron4]

​@@lunadeadbecause the way tanks create space is by threatening kills. In a team environment that doesnt have to be through damage, displacement or cc can also serve that purpose, but overall you need a reason to care that the tank is contesting your space. The tanks in rivals have low damage and not much for cc/displacement. All they can really do is damage sponge, which just isnt fun.

[@rawn9234]

The tanks and supports are pretty good imo. So many people instalock dps and then get out damaged by tanks and supports and have terrible kds. Makes you wonder

[@dayneinsayne]

I have been upsetting people in Rivals with "failed Overwatch Damage players" jokes...

[@yomismo2689]

One thing is make ton of damage, and other is have an interesting design with a big skill ceiling and skill expression. In ow for example, yeah, maybe a Mauga can make much more dmg than a Doom, but the skill expression of Doom, the fun you have playing his kit and his possibilities is much more interesting and important than Mauga and his dmg. The dmg can be changed with a balance patch, but making a character interesting, making the players to play them and having ton of skill expression is only reachable via good design and expanded gameplay loop possibilities.

[@brycenb2994]

That’s the same flawed logic people used to say support and tanks do a ton of damage in overwatch. overall damage (which is what the scoreboard shows) is not the same as time to kill. A character can have a really bad time to kill but have the same overall damage as someone who 1 shots bc they both killed an 800 hp target. And if anything it’s reversed bc the better your time to kill, generally the less damage you have. Widow in overwatch 1 shots everyone. So they don’t have time to heal. Meanwhile I can spray someone with bullets as a soldier and because I do less damage it makes my overall damage higher cause they get healed through it

That’s not because of the tanks it’s because the dps instalocks are always selfish and have no idea what they’re doing while the only guys playing tank/supp are massively outperforming them and *should* be the ones on dps

[@siren_atlantica]

This whole video comes off as "local try hard is upset he can't sweat."

[@beingbag2606]

once the marvel rivals counterpicking charts start to hit the game is cooked.

[@LeoJinx01]

Hater.

[@beingbag2606]

I love the game actually. Just not looking forward to it suffering some of the same problems OW has.

[@micaheldey1981]

What is counter picking? I never played OW. Just started Rivals and trying to see if it’s worth my time.

[@beingbag2606]

@@micaheldey1981 swapping characters specifically because they give you an advantage against one of the heroes your enemy is playing to compensate for a lack of skill. its not inherently a bad thing but the OW community has been obsessed with it and it hasn't been good for the game. you can find videos of tank players just standing in spawn swapping to "counter" the other while their teams just fight a 4v4.

[@mrlunar62]

How tf and who tf would u have to counter pick tanks? Like who? It’s not like “oh they have rein so I go orisa”

[@ulrik03]

Back in 2016 Rein and Winston didn't look very complex ("no aim no brain Winston main), how sure are we that we know most of what these guys can do? Having said that the community has collectively infinitely more experience at hero shooters now, so it should be easier to judge. But...

[@BigJambu]

As a tank main in all these kinds of games I couldn't agree more. Especially on the Hulk jump... its so weird that to play the character optimally you need to be holding spacebar constantly and release it to jump lol.

[@joseph2000117]

Hulk jumo feels like it belong in an asset flip game wtf were they thinking

[@matthewbrears2129]

I haven’t played rivals yet but all those movement abilities look so clunky compared to OW. Grapple (web swinging), jumps

[@lunadead]

There's an option to not make it as hold but tap instead.

[@harrrieee]

most annoying thing as hulk is when you get booped as you’re going to jump out, and because you were airborne you weren’t able to jump out, and because you let go of spacebar trying to jump you’ve lost all you’re jump charge and now you’re dead

[@jaded-harper]

@@matthewbrears2129 they are extremely clunky. punishers zip drives me fkin insane, crazy how much more polished overwatch feels

[@crom5906]

Hulk. Once you get good with him is legitimately really fun and has a lot of skill shots and animation cancels. The E, stunning flyers with the jump, right click during the ult. Primal juggling. Even his shield is satisfying causr you can animation cancel with the jump and save your entire team by bubbling all of them. Im t500 in mr mostly playing hulk and its really, really fun.

[@michaelsnyder8243]

It’s been like 4 days. There are combos and tactics with heroes that people have not learned yet. Thor is amazing I already have like 15 hours on him and he carried me to platinum already. When I first played him I thought he was boring, now I think he is more fun than any tank in OW.

[@volktol4432]

Agreed Thor is so fun and really good. Yea his 3hammer charge is the best thing of him but this content guy clearly doesn’t know how to play him with how he spoke on him

[@juicymuscprod9624]

​@@volktol4432 he prolly knows how to play him more than u do lmao

[@volktol4432]

@@juicymuscprod9624 nah, Thor is very fun and if you knew how to play Thor you can tell Spilo doesn’t just by how he spoke on him. It’s not hard to see💀

[@juicymuscprod9624]

@volktol4432 spilos a ex owl coach

[@alakaspoon1458]

@@juicymuscprod9624 and this is marvel rivals

[@Cav829]

My friends and I joke who gets to play right mouse button simulator each game as Doctor Strange. it's like if Reinhardt was redesigned by a toxic DPS teammate who just wants you to hold shield for him the whole game. And that's the "best" of the tanks atm per most meta discussions I've seen.

[@AkilTheAwesome]

It says a lot that Punisher is more interesting than the entire tank class save MAYBE thor. Punisher is basically a battle Royale dream character

[@Dios_of_Autumn-1999]

😮😊Punisher has a high movement skill ceiling too

[@dayneinsayne]

My boy is Trigger Happy from Skylanders.

[@LeoJinx01]

Venom is hella fun. Same for thor cap

[@glassofwater281]

Hulk fun. Me like hulk. Punch and Hulk Tuah.

[@atomickarate3421]

I think the biggest issue is that the tanks have very weak teammups. When in reality they should have the strongest teammups. Cap is an extremely fun hero and I truly mean this. His kit genuinely is really packed and can a lot from counter diving to diving himself, with insane mobility and his ability to reflect just about everything. For me the biggest issue with tanks is that their kits value just doesn't make sense. And they don't synergize with anyone but themselves. Even Groot is just Groot but your healer is inside you. I think healers have much higher potential for kits and skill expression but they are very similar in loop. Just auto teammates. Most supports can't take off angles. Another thing is that the maps don't *encourage* things that aren't meat slap fights. It's just big long corked corridors and big circles. Plus all high ground being destructible.

[@AdhvaithSane]

Yes. The map also don’t help at all, especially with what is *specifically* destructible and what *SHOULD BE* or *SHOULDN'T BE* destructible in any given map, but map design is a crucial factor as well, and they need to take a look at the maps, what makes some of them *really good,* *really bad* and what could be improved, whether that be a big change or some tweaks to make it feel better and more.. *nuanced* if you will.

[@diversquid4793]

I'm a big fan of Hulk right now. Back in Overwatch, i enjoyed Rein, Winton and specially Ball. His primary fire takes around 6-7 hits to kill a squishy, but in combination with the Clap, gets the job done I guess. His jump might be a bit wonky sometimes but the fact that it's on a 0 cd makes it up, I get to jump around the map without costs as if I was rolling around as Ball. He has cool proyectiles, Clap feels as good as Firestrike sometimes and it feels rewarding to farm ult charge just as if I was playing Rein and aimed at a big clump of enemies. His stun is the coolest shit ever. You get a 2 seconds lockdown proyectile that can only be interrupted by you, it's like giving a sleep dart to a dive tank but you decide when they wake up and I'm a big fan of that. His shield is cool in concept, an AoE damage mitigation tool that turns damage into ult charge? That's amazing. But the range feels way too short sometimes. But it's a cool way to aid teammates that go in with you like Spidey or Wolverine. And it helps you counter CC since it works as a Zarya shield. His Ult feels exactly like Primal. I get rewarded for juggling enemies but I can deal consistant damage with a lower CD on Clap + landing the stun on an enemy, and Ult in front of them while immobilized to then Clap and Ult again feels like a rewarding combo. Immo he is the most rewarding tank when it comes to playtime, since I get to improve both mechanicaly and mentally.

[@NoodleTactics]

I personally really have had fun in the last 4 days playing rivals and I main Magneto and Loki. This said, however, I also resonate with the sentiment that the abilities feel like they have such little IMPACT. I found a combo on Magneto that's primary, cancel into melee, cancel into mag cannon, primary, cancel into melee. Beyond this though I feel like there isn't anymore skill expression for magneto beyond macro gameplay and it makes me really sad because I find his general character design really cool. I wish the best for changes to come with this game because I think it has something

[@senseiitanaks]

So many people are telling others that they wont enjoy the game in a month as if they arent miserable playing overwatch

[@ni9274]

People who play Overwatch aren’t miserable playing it or they would just stop People who play Overwatch have fun, if you don’t have fun you should seriously consider seeing an Addictologist. Personally I don’t understand how you can be addicted to a game that you hate playing, when you’re addicted to a drug it means doing the drugs brings you some type of pleasure People are just reacting to the insane amount of Overwatch bashing that was going on before release with almost every single comment under every video from OW content creator on Rivals talking about how this game will kill Overwatch (it didn’t kill OW, player count didn’t see any huge drop) So now it’s the turn of the OW fans to be toxic asshole constantly saying « marvel will be dead in a month » when it’s factually not going to be true

[@alarastaff]

Fr fr game is actually fun and people just want to turn it into overwatch lmao, in rivals it actually doesn’t feel like shit to be the solo tank role in fact it doesn’t even feel bad to die as every death feels like you could’ve done something different for a different outcome while in overwatch that’s a very thin line of options

[@alarastaff]

@@ni9274I am one of those players that can’t seem to be able to leave the fkn game even tho I have a ton of moments when I want to destroy my pc just because 1 it feels smooth as fk to play something that rivals doesn’t have and 2 characters are very very unique, but apart from that, balance team is doing random changes every patch, every patch feels like they just add skins instead of actually improving the game and rivals actually feels good to play even when you lose you are having fun + in third person you can actually see your skins

[@questionable_live]

@@alarastaff every death feels like you could have done something different because you're still learning the maps, the characters and how to play against abilities. Overwatch has been around for so long at this point people instead just blame the characters or blame the patch. Every game eventually falls into a meta and people start eventually seeing flaws competition is good though so I hope marvel lives but Overwatch won't die.

[@alarastaff]

@ yeah I know it won’t die, but I won’t be touching it anytime soon

[@TekMoliGy]

Spilo just used to the super unbalanced overpowered bullshit tanks in ow

[@Cimmerie]

Peni does have a skillshot stun on her right click tho! and it's very fun to stun a support

[@toothy_ow]

I disagree with Thor. Pretty much everyone else I agree, but engaging with Thor is more fun than every other choice. The E makes all the difference. Being able to refresh your hammers with a proper engage is very satisfying. He feels like between Winston and Ball to me with the mobility, health regen, and the close range playstyle.

[@libertyprime9307]

Good teams will just deny you that though. It's so easy to play split in this game.

[@toothy_ow]

You really only need to hit one or two though. As long as you've got at least one hammer, it's not too hard to get the other two with E and good timing on your engage. I agree it's easy to play split, but I think that works in Thor's favor mostly. He can demolish in 1v1 or 1v2s by getting 100 health every second using shift, especially with the instant stun it provides. I think F is really just for poke and added threat during team fighting.

[@MartyFriedmanJr]

thor is incredibly fun and viable when played correctly. people who disagree just havent played him properly for an extended period of time. he wins most 1v1s and a lot of 1v2s

[@JustAJauneArc]

​@toothy_ow you got it the opposite way I think, what makes Thor a menace is his awakened state. The 200 hp and crazy damage makes him a dueling machine, and the last guy you want to see cornering you in a dark alley.

[@Anonymous-lv4di]

Your take on the tanks is like mine on Overwatch 2, the only tank I enjoy playing is Junker Queen

[@this-is-how-i-cope]

You find overwatch tanks boring? Unrewarding?

[@nobodyded1664]

Thor by far hard clears skill expression & fun on vanguards for me (if you dont play for F) , the rest are meh at best , I'd fall asleep playing any support in this game tbh and while most fun lies within the DPS , it's kinda hard to play any dps when 3-4 ppl insta lock it.

[@ronnieriosstayshredded7410]

People are having more fun playing marvel rivals and that’s why people play games. Time will tell thoufh

[@damianvaldez9390]

I mean we’ve seen what the OW2 playerbase has gone through. False promises about pve, changed unpopular format, broken tank in the battlepass, another Orisa microbuff. I think that as much as OW has declined, it still has a dedicated following. MR has a pretty great chance

[@gobbagoo]

@@damianvaldez9390well one reason for that is theres no game that really played like ow. Theres also a huge casual fanbase so if marvel takes that thatd itd be big

[@emiyaann4688]

We are still in the honeymoon phase,once it fades all the issue will emerge

[@papapalps2415]

@@emiyaann4688 Repeating this like holy gospel because you think your pet tribe is being threatened is pathetic, tbh.

[@LauraLovesHugs]

@@papapalps2415 i mean it's true, it isn't overwatch exclusive, this happens to literally every game. it was the same with like every game that came before too. overwatch, fortnite, pubg, apex, valorant, csgo, destiny, every new fighting game, every new multiplayer game of any kind. big design issues are going to come up over time and that doesn't mean the game will die or be abandoned, but it isn't something you can just ignore forever either.

[@TomMorello725]

Man, I tried to make this point on different internet sites and ohhh man I ate hate. Literally, people saying that tank designs in MR are better than in OW2... I get it, OW2 has bad tanks like Orisa, Mauga, etc but maaaaaan. I called it Illari´s effect: at the beginning people are amazed but, time later, you see the reality: flat hero, boring. Literally, I prefer 1000 times playing 5v5 with JQ than any tank in MR. I understand if people are having fun in MR with tanks but their heroes could be way better, which would benefit those players who refuse to accept this problem.

[@waiokol9446]

People have honey moon phase lmao . Happens

[@Jidom_101]

There’s just a giant hate boner for overwatch in general in the gaming community, and it can dilute genuine discussion.

[@sarenartanis1752]

What it's your opinion about Hazard in Overwatch? I was playing both games these days. I found so boring play with Captain America but i enjoy Parker and Venom. In Overwatch, i really love Hazard, it like the best of Doom with the best of Mei with his wall.

[@yomismo2689]

@@waiokol9446 yeah, I mean, this is like ow in it's og day. People loved it and it was perfect because everyone was discovering the game, but at the time passes, you just started to saw the flaws, and just look at classic and how much people just saw that, and yeah, classic bus funny, and yeah, i had ton of fun because of tank synergies, but you can see so much flaws that the game had on his original state and we didn't saw them until the time passed.

[@waiokol9446]

@@yomismo2689 Yeah thats so true and i agree with that

[@serenity233]

My biggest complaint is the sound effects, everything sounds way too high pitched with no impact.

[@goodgrief5578]

Dude is spitting. I love the game but they didn’t take ANY notes on tank

[@voladile]

Thor's hammer spin should be able to charge his right click to throw it for more damage/distance

[@paulakroy2635]

Thor deserves to be change the least of the tank

[@code_Bread]

One day, I will fully stop engaging with awful KZbin comments and have more meaningful experiences instead. It's been slow going, but I'm getting there!

[@DenverMadsen]

I hate the exercise of "fulfilling a predefined role" at the expense of doing anything else more interesting. There is good reason to look for a worthy successor to Overwatch if only because OW cannot grow beyond tired tropes of "tank, dps and support." If the heroes are compelling enough, as they should be, then people want to play a hero, not a role. If a hero is not easily reduced to just their "role" in terms of how they can contribute to a team effort, then that sounds like a victory for the genre. So, you say "vanguards" do not play like old-school "tanks?" I think, "NOW the Hero Shooter is getting interesting!" Your reaction to Marvel Rivals mirrors those of Team Fortress 2 veterans when Overwatch originally launched. New is different, and some good things, like Sigma's potent Accretion (FWIW I find Kinetic Grasp to have the more thrilling, less-tapped potential), are inevitably surrendered to nostalgia. One day, Overwatch might instead be remembered as a "Role Shooter" because newer Hero Shooters evolved so far beyond what one could ask from Overwatch.

[@Cozythreats]

Liking playing a hero doesn’t prevent a role and its responsibilities being necessary to compete within a competitive environment. As long as Rivals doesn’t try to be a competitive game what you say could possibly happen, but from a competitive perspective the same roles and responsibilities every game has had to deal with will be there still whether it’s called tank dps support or vanguard duelist specialist

[@opticalmoose8091]

Except that vanguards, instead of filling a specific role, just kind of exist and do nothing, and specialists have overpowered healing, making them mandatory.

[@libertyprime9307]

It's called the holy trinity for a reason. Tank/DPS/Support is a timeless design, it's going nowhere. A huge portion of Rivals players are already begging for role lock, which, if implemented, will cement the roles further.

[@senseiitanaks]

I really like this take, even in ow certain characters fullfil roles that their not titled under but due to role lock and perception they often don't reach their full potential, like mei, doomfist, Baptiste, hamster, roadhog, moira. (My favorite part of sigma is the shield management)

[@jaded-harper]

thats why I love dota 2. they just design cool heroes. one patch a hard carry will be a support and the next patch hes a midlaner. infinitely better hero design then the shit that is marvel rivals/overwatch

[@callmejacob33]

I actually find groot very satisfying idk why

[@Razor-Gun]

I hadn't find the proper words for it, but after playing Marvel Rivals for a while I can safely say it doesn't feel rewarding at all. The characters feel wonky and stiff, like there's absolutely zero impact for ANYTHING. Even DPS characters like Magik and Wolverine that should be a dopamine fest can't even register properly in the player's mind because everything feels so weirdly off. Once the honey moon phase wears off and people start to take the game more seriously, a lot of its flaws are gonna show and it will get MESSY.

[@RacingSnails64]

Thank goodness I'm not alone. The melee characters especially look like dogshit to play as. They look soooo shallow and unsatisfying, just hold the melee button swinging. Cap, Thor, Magik, Iron Fist, etc. Idk if it's because it's in third person or if it's just the animations and effects themselves, but landing hits looks so weightless and unsatisfying.

[@libertyprime9307]

Things have an odd, floaty feel that's difficult to articulate. A lot of times melee hits don't seem to connect or register. I started playing Spiderman, he has a really fun dive/harass/combo style. But sometimes his hits will actually just whiff after doing the E to pull yourself to a webbed target and knock them up. I currently have no idea why the hit sometimes whiffs. Sometimes a target will just be on the ground in front of me, and I whiff. It's like the hitbox is very small. His uppercut at least is a lot bigger. Venom has something similar. Longer ranged melee bust strikes, but they are weirdly small. Like hitscan sized almost. And it's just strange that this move can crit because it doesn't feel reliably controllable enough for that.

[@opticalmoose8091]

@@RacingSnails64 Cap dies in like 0.6 seconds and can’t reach anyone, so that’s a skillcheck I suppose.

[@uriahthegreat5004]

idk git gud? They even give you tips in the hero tab.

[@uriahthegreat5004]

@@libertyprime9307 This is true when I play Black Panther I will hit an enemy with a vibranium mark I will dash through them and I will hear a sound that means I connected. My dash doesn't reset. I check to see if they got bubble or cleansed somehow but the mark is still on them.

[@Riotality]

Whilst I agree with the tanks in particular, the Overwatch classic game mode has shown us just how janky and clunky some of the kits were in original Overwatch and they’ve come a long way to make for the smooth and fun gameplay we know today. Hopefully the same can be said for MR, give it some time to find its feet and evolve and we can all benefit from having two great games in competition with eachother for a share of the playerbase :D

[@LauraLovesHugs]

i would agree if MR came out years ago, the issue is that MR is coming out now, and they could've learned so much by looking at the problems OW faced over time and adapted their design with that in mind. instead, a lot of the issues that stand out now are issues that OW faced back in like 2016-2017, which the rivals devs definitely could have learned from already. i hope future patches help address these issues, but running into OW classic types of problems makes me hesitant to be optimistic on that front.

[@TiMonsor]

At last smone critical of the game. Everyone saying the same "Oh its so fresh and good, fuck you ow, Rivals is perfect" is annoying. Cause there are A LOT of problems Fuck OW - yes. Fuck em for stupid ass choices. But it does not mean that Rivals is perfect. And we have to help them get better. Maybe that guys will listen. Yeah, some of this problems are "cause im bad\dumb ew", but most of us are. These things still can be better and improve the game. For one - I think that INDICATION is lacking. A lot of things are just poorly telegraphed. - Taking dmg for example. I barely know when I am about to die. The stupid "Boi-oi-oi-ing" is all we have. - Some abilities are barely visible\distinguishable. Psylock's shurikens or Magnito's right click. Did I throw it? Or was it primary fire? When im watching streamers some times the only way to know is looking at their cooldown timers. The animations and projectiles are not pronounced enough. And of course it takes away from the joy of using the thing. If you can barely see it. 2. Why TAB does not show dmg or heal numbers until the end? I can't even see who heals and who dps moira ints. 3. With supports there is a lot of gimmicky busy work. Empoering with Mantis feels tiring as fuck. Urself, that one, that one, oh ok, the first one already needed to be empowered again. It ends quick and again - I cant see who I already pressed. Unless I look at the fucking side and try to decipher the icons. Can you indicate it on person. And yeah, arrows up looks like a fucking stand-in effect. So basic. 4. Some heroes kits are very weird. Why Dagger has THREE ways of healing? They all do the same thing. 2 are more than enough. But no movement ability. In a game where almost everyone has a dash this feels so punishing. Why Magneto has a shield AND Zarya bubbles? Could you not decide on one? Its excessive. But again, no movement ability. And don't say "some characters are supposed to be slow and grounded like Ana, Zarya etc". In OW it feels fair. Here 80% of the cast HAS A DASH. Spidey can go from spawn to span in his 3 shifts, 4 seconds. Star Lord and Iron man are not far behind. And heros that got the "no movement" card do not seem particularly op or compensated for it in any way. 5. It barely matters but BattlePass is so ass, lol, barely anything in it. And the fact that only Missions progress it and your regular playing progresses nothing by itself (outside of Lvl that means nothing) feels bad.

[@AliceinEntropy]

If this game is going to be called rivals, we need rival abilities too. Same as team up when you see an enemy on something you can switch to something lore accurate, have special dialogue and special interactions with them like rengar and kha'zix in league.

[@bigfudge2031]

The movement abilities in this game feel so janky.

[@Jamesington]

Agreed. There's no oomph to any of the tanks' abilities.

[@Ron742_]

6v6 and sometimes I only see one tank per team, or none at all? Strange, It's almost like the role isn't popular. I can't believe OW2 made the change to one tank. Well, I'm sure when Rivals adds more tanks this will change...

[@hardrada3534]

And yet I have more fun in 0-4-2 compositions than I do in overwatch. 1-3-2 should be the balance goal.

[@Balloonbot]

​@@hardrada3534 In even one or two months you wont feel that way if you want to play it remotely competitively. If the other team has a tank and you don't its already noticeable

@@hardrada3534no because if 1-3-2 is the balance goal you’ll made stacking tanks OP because they’re balanced to solo tank

[@andreamicheli2575]

​@@hardrada3534Yeah bc tanks suck and dps are overtuned, this is 1 to 1 like release OW where Cass and Widow were dominating the game and tanks couldn't do shit about it.

[@glassofwater281]

I love playing Hulk. Wolverine is fun but he needs some kind of buff, either higher damage percentage or life regen. I do like that he's highly effective against tanks.

[@novelgiani]

I sorta feel the complete opposite. Every tank in this game is fun to me, whereas in OW, tank was such a snooze for me. I'm finding myself having so much more fun with the characters in this game than I have had in OW2. But this is just a difference of opinion.

[@vegascuti6931]

You are just a casual, nothing wrong about it

[@novelgiani]

@vegascuti6931 I'm not, though lol.

[@jarenagra2804]

people are just in the honeymoon phase but once this game gets dissected and gets sweaty, it would get boring. all tanks are just ungga bungga brawlers, little playmaking and skill expression

[@damianvaldez9390]

Yeah I love the skill expression of Mauga and Orisa. I’m just glad they didn’t buff Orisa and nerf Doom this patch😮.

[@pancakke08]

@@damianvaldez9390Mauga and Orisa existing doenst discredit tank criticism in MR

[@lawfulgoodnun1646]

A lot of the healers are boring too. Healing and damage is on the same button and there is no alternate fire so I'm literally just holding down the one shoot button 90% of time.

[@pancakke08]

@@lawfulgoodnun1646 The only supports I really enjoyed were Mantis and Adam Warlock

@@damianvaldez9390Their primary fire requires actual mechanics. Like I find it so funny how people constantly bash Mauga and Orisa but want rein to be meta??? The ultimate low skill hero, you at least need to be able to aim to play Orisa and Mauga

[@paulsimonongpin6689]

Felt the same way with vanguards. It just sucks solo tanking and getting burst out in secs and waiting for heals or running to health packs every single fking game. overwatch skill synergies are just better.

[@Jidom_101]

I think hulk, captain america and peni parker have the best potential to become better tanks with a few tweaks. I do think it’s a design philosophy issue and not just a numbers one

[@stijnvth]

I've noticed that myself that i much prefer playing OW Tank than Rivals vanguard. Even in shitty comps and with shitty teams.

[@AkilTheAwesome]

Thor is only interesting tank and SATISFYING. Very novel design. All 1 sec cooldowns but has a resource. The issue with him imo, is that his movement ability shouldn't be tied to his resource. It would fix his flow entirely

[@meerkatphantom5499]

Hmm idk i think it's like that to punish you spamming his movement because it's ment for you to head in first get a resource and shield then drop your dome on the enemy so you can enter Thor force quickly

[@AkilTheAwesome]

@meerkatphantom5499 it FEELS terrible. It's not even an instant dash . I'm talking strictly from a gameplay fun perspective

[@DDog09]

Sooooooooo true i hate having to choose between movement and a skillshot when i could've just done both

[@libertyprime9307]

As soon as you make shift and M2 separate from F, it's no longer novel but would feel better. Maybe it's actually a shitty novel design and would be better as a more conventional design.

[@opticalmoose8091]

His hammer throw feels downright useless - barely ever worth it. And it feels really horrible not being able to chain your abilities.

[@iPhenomenal27]

one of the biggest mistake they did was making wolverine a duelist and not a tank, LIKE WHY?

[@danielw8776]

I really don't understand why everyone hates the tanks in this game. Tank is my least favorite role in Overwatch but I really like at least half the tank roster here. Doctor Strange and Venom are my most played characters by quite a bit.

[@volktol4432]

It’s because they are stupid like Spilo. The tanks are very fun and very good. You honestly have to be quite stupid to not figure it out

[@cyr2097]

He basically explained why in this video lol.

[@volktol4432]

@ not really. The tanks are good and fun. You’ve gotta be real bad to think they are bad

Because you do nothing but exist. You’re tanky, yeah, you can position like an idiot and get bailed out by OP support heals, but you don’t *do* anything You’re literally just running around pressing buttons and nothing happens The only tank that feels impactful is Peni because you can root dps every 4s

@@volktol4432No you just have new shiny toy syndrome. Their design majorly lacks flair and impact

[@Yaxim3]

Im a high diamond zen player in overwatch and I found Adam warlock a lot of fun. He has a one shot combo which is super satisfying. Charge up right click and then hold left click and if it hits it kills anything under 275.

[@libertyprime9307]

He's not interesting bro. He's a pure damage and healing turret.

[@Exrederex]

​@@libertyprime9307 using that logic so is zen lol

[@GamewizDeluxe]

Ty for explaining what I've been feeling. Another person said that their hits on characters don't feel impactful...whether that's on the soundfx team or animation team, idk.

[@DanielFlores-fo1ee]

It’s because you’re used to the visual and audio fidelity of OW. Rivals doesn’t come anywhere close to the polish ow has in terms of sound/visual design.

[@Krethean]

I played a few of the tanks and I find Peni can make some skill shots with her M2. If you entangle someone you can shut an Ult down or pin them for the team to rip into them. Bonus if they're trapped in the space you make

[@uzuvibe5420]

I think this is a very rushed opinion and critique of said characters, I found myself not loving thor until I took time to learn him he’s a ton of fun with his micro management, hulk is good and has good skill expression, doctor strange is a bunch of fun, groot is super well designed with his walls and is really fun with Rocket. Peni is my favorite out of all them her gimmicky tactical play style is super nice. Only tanks I don’t really like is really cap without Thor he’s nothing. But it’s too early to say first season isn’t out yet or are the team up abilities or the true understanding of really anything yet.

[@chekitatheanimatedskeptic6314]

The tanks need more CC, faster cooldowns and maybe a little lower damage to compensate, but with faster ult charge, making them get ultimates by how much they are focused without dying, not by their damage solely. Add to that some mechanic changes or even more skills. Like... why Cap simply has zero stun skills, while Black Widow can use infinite EE and the second hit is always a stun? Simply makes no sense. Hulk is garbage.

[@ReadilyAvailibleChomper]

Tbh I really don’t care about the sweaty hyper optimized meta or whatever, I like this game better than Overwatch because playing Overwatch is depressing and boring. Genuinely makes me feel either frustrated or empty inside whenever I play. Rivals actually makes me feel joy and is fun. I just hope it doesn’t get all sweaty like OW.

[@polar6066]

you like marvel rivals because its new and youre in your honey moon phase, no other reason

[@opticalmoose8091]

It will either get sweaty or die. That’s the only way these kinds of games go.

[@firecatflameking]

@@polar6066 yup lol

[@jrg7777]

I keep seeing so many people praise the very the same things that they themselves hated about overwatch, but rivals dials them up to 11.

[@DJWolfHouse]

The amount of people coping saying this was the OW killer was crazy. It’s exactly what I expected. A middling hero shooter that will fall to 10,000 players concurrently after a year, if that. People really don’t realize how hard it is to make and balance a game like this. It’s not perfect obviously but they’re doing a damn good job compared to what anyone else could do. The competition isn’t even close.

[@TSGC16]

Its def not the Overwatch killer but saying the competition isnt close is also a cope.

[@uriahthegreat5004]

So this guy validates your garbage opinion when the game gets 400k active players a day so far.

[@DJWolfHouse]

@TSGC16 who would you consider close?

[@papapalps2415]

@@DJWolfHouse This level of cope is so delusional it borders on being dangerous. Its also, coincidentally, hysterically funny. You're tribal 'unga-bunga, must defend, must attack' routine is pathetic, tbh.

[@vegascuti6931]

​@@uriahthegreat5004its just the new toy syndrome, let it sit

[@arulsaotome5046]

If your team can protect the supports, no need for anti dive support to begin with.

[@nicholasaragon4126]

If Marvel Rivals were the worst game ever made people would still praise it just to hate on Overwatch. They're not capable of analyzing objectively.

[@damianvaldez9390]

Ha that’s the corniest cope I’ve ever read. We literally saw that’s not true with Concord. Are you going to pull a no true scotsman fallacy now and say “but marvel characters”? What’s frustrating is that you want to criticize us for enjoying a barely 5 day old game with no balance patches yet. You guys had false promises of pve, the same Mauga/Orisa buffs, constant counterpicking etc. you think objectively

[@ArielHal9000]

​@@damianvaldez9390Comparing a free marvel slop game to a full priced poorly advertised game with horrible design is such hard cope dude.

[@HealsBadMan]

@@damianvaldez9390skill issue 😂

[@DragonEdge10]

​@damianvaldez9390 The reasons you listed actually give credence to OW players being objective if anything. Most people latch on to those very points to unfairly judge the game state, which is objectively pretty well balanced and decently fun right now. It's also undeniable that there is a culture of bandwagoning when it comes to hating on OW. The 8 year old game has apparently been dying for 6 of its 8 years according to the haters, in spite of the game having an overall higher player base and retention than it has had for years since OW1 EOL. That said, OP definitely isn't saying this completely in good faith. As you said, if there wasn't something special about rivals then people wouldn't be playing it to this degree. For all of its faults it does have a very good core loop which is the main reason for its staying power.

[@uriahthegreat5004]

@@DragonEdge10 Plays the game since 2017 ow2 comes out it was fine until season 9 now its shit. Wake up.

[@PhevieWonder]

Captain America feels so much better with the team up because he can have a ranged neutral instead of needing to run in to do damage. But if you don’t have a Thor, you have to rely on only your e for poke and it sucks.

[@GamewizDeluxe]

Personally, I login to play Peni Parker. My "skill shot" is the right click stun web. My skill ceiling is maximizing my mines off cooldown, putting my defense/heal web in a safe but effective place. Hope this helps 👍

[@davidsmith3159]

i was kinda sad spilo didnt talk about Peni and her right click, it feels almost like sigmas rock but every 3 seconds

[@jhNUUP52]

Also thor has such a skill ceiling, in the right hands he's dominant

@@davidsmith3159Peni is the exception and it’s absolute insanity she’s the only tank with consistent CC

[@CaseyGumball]

You wanna group up? With your Peni and my Groot we will be unstoppable.

[@Climate_FPS]

It was a pretty balanced mixture of classes but 8 of the last 10 heroes added were duelists.

[@verdictz7231]

I agree this game does feel clunky and so do the tanks, but is it fair to be so harsh at season 0 thats the point of a season 0 is to get player feedback and optimize the game.

[@ArielHal9000]

They had 2 separate betas and have been able to use OW's 8 years as a blueprint for a hero shooter. Making these basic mistakes doesn't make me hopeful for the future of the game but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[@papapalps2415]

@@ArielHal9000 Using OW as a blueprint is exactly the opposite of what you should do, given how fundamentally flawed the game is in more than few avenues.

[@ArielHal9000]

@papapalps2415 Rivals players are already asking for all the things Overwatch added over the years because those were all good additions. Role queue, passive health regeneration, etc. Overwatch didn't become uncontested in its category for 8 years for no reason. Wait until this honeymoon period ends and people start to realize the poor balancing and horrible hero design for tanks, which is why in Rivals it's especially harder to find tank players.

[@papapalps2415]

@@ArielHal9000 This is basically all cope, to clarify, and it's a very, very poor disguise for your pathetic, tribal 'unga-bunga' routine you helpfully inserted at the end. Anyways, enjoy the horse meta coming up, lmfao.

[@yinx9]

Had the most fun with Punisher. Take an off angle on range and play Kovaaks. So much chaos that people rarely notice you because they are too busy focusing on brawl range. When people do get close you have two(!) escape mechanisms AND a shotgun you can fall back on. Crazy. On the other hand I tried Thor and I had to sweat my ass off and spam abilities to stay alive. Compared to Punisher it's literally the sweating gamer vs. singing chilling gamer meme.

[@dequanndillard7932]

I must really suck because venom is not easy for me at all. I was drawn to him to because he was the closest thing to wrecking ball and venom feels incredibly clunky with his movement. Trying to swing on certain stages is horrible cause I just run into stuff on the stage . I'm gold 3 on wrecking ball so I'm not completely horrible in ow and thought venom would just click for me.

[@Kaimmen]

turn off easy swing. once you turn that setting off his swing immediately makes sense

[@danielw8776]

His general combo is easy to understand but it takes time to learn how to swing properly which can make or break your dive. You also should try to make use of his wall crawl to set up without a swing so that you can swing out if things get hairy.

[@code_Bread]

Play Hulk instead. He's far more mobile than Venom and you can cling to walls above people to ambush them like Ball with his grapple retract.

[@dequanndillard7932]

@@Kaimmen thanks gonna try this!

[@dequanndillard7932]

@danielw8776 i don't wall climb at all lol gonna use it more.

[@chocolate108]

Feels like rivals isnt "competing" with overwatch as a whole, more like just the dps players

[@ArielHal9000]

Might help OW queue times at the cost of Rivals being mostly games of 4-5 dps on the same team.

[@VambraceMusic]

As a 1k+ hours on tracer player.. starlord feels weird to me. A lot what i like about tracer doesnt feel good with him. Slow momentum when AD strafing, the dodge is too short of a distance, you cant reload while flying, the E feels out of place and anti synergistic and there is no crouch in Rivals which also limits skill expression. i really want to like it but it seem like Rivals doesnt understand why certain heroes in ow2 are fun. It really is mobile casual ow2

[@uzuvibe5420]

It isn’t overwatch and starlord is absolutely not tracer I had the same problem with psylocke as a gm genji but now I love love love love love her so much I wish genji was designed like that ahaha

Yeah and then he ults and everyone just dies with no counterplay He needs his ult nerfed like crazy and his kit buffed so he feels better for more of the game

[@libertyprime9307]

Starlord is the Tracer we have at home lmao

[@senseiitanaks]

He isn't tracer tho, I thought the same with black panther being like genji or doomfist but he's his own character that plays very differently

[@VambraceMusic]

​@@senseiitanaks i guess... its so weird because the inspiration is obvious and on the nose. His gameplay loop is like a frankensteins monster between soldier tracer and reaper its like those characters but from wish.

[@fastfang1229]

Note I haven't played Marvel Rivals yet but it seems to me that people are falling into this trap of "this game is much more fun than OW" when it literally hasn't been that long since the game released. Of course everything is going to be more fun because its new and interesting. We've had Overwatch for almost 8 years so any new game similar to OW will feel fun. Only time will tell if this game truly is better than OW or is a serious competitor. It is way too early to tell anything concrete. First impressions and play throughs are great but what about this game 1 or 2 years from now? Is it still gonna be the same or better? The devs need to put in some serious work if they want this game to survive. Some examples would be Palworld. Remember when everyone went crazy over Palworld, now look at it. Never heard a single thing afterwards (gameplay wise not drama wise). Sure it might still have some players but it fell off quick. Same thing with Multiversus, everyone was hyping up Multiversus as the competitor to Smash, but it also just fell off. Now that is not to say that I want Marvel Rivals to die, its just that games now and days that are seen as "[Insert video game] killers" tend to fall in the exact opposite side where they just fall off hard after a couple of months. People hype up games just for it to flop. Marvel Rivals has the potential to follow this notion but I hope they don't but its too early to tell. I will hope for the best but won't be surprised if the worst happens.

[@daddyethan]

overwatch classic was out for quite a bit, how did launch dva feel? launch hog? i get it this new game feels threatening to OG overwatch lovers but let's be real it came out 4 days ago, quite literally hasn't even had a hero patch yet, you guys are on crack comparing every detail to another game that's been out for approaching a decade (that's still plagued with problems)

[@juicymuscprod9624]

He said the same thing already lol

[@jalmar6348]

Marvel Rivals had about 8 years of overwatch to study from, literal free cheat sheet LOL.

[@The_Real_Sworder]

@@jalmar6348 Thats like copying on a test from someone who's failing the exam 😭

[@ChrisFoster-zr7ot]

@The_Real_Sworder lmao

[@ArielHal9000]

​@The_Real_Sworder Rivals is still making all the same mistakes we all agree OW made. Too many dps options and not enough support or tank options. DPS heroes being the most engaging while the other roles are more mindless. No role queue when OW has shown that was necessary.

[@KingKelss]

Tanks especially feel wide but not deep compared to OW tanks.

[@uriahthegreat5004]

6v6 made overwatch 2 tanks great goats and double shield are outliers if they launched ow2 with 2 tanks pre season 9 garbage patch it would be better than ow1

[@StarCrow77Gaming]

Doctor Strange's the only fun tank change my mind you cannot

[@TomMorello725]

Nah, it is super slow. Fire is slow, there is no clear range for playing and have a 160-second CD.

[@StarCrow77Gaming]

​@@TomMorello725beside the 160 timer, He is Fun getting squishies low Than Using burst To Kill them Just clicks for me

[@MICROKNIGHT3000]

are you gonna pay me or something

[@CaseyGumball]

Ok hear me out, Groot is very fun for a few reasons that I don’t think many people have figured out yet. 1. You can cancel his left clicks with his melee which by itself wouldn’t be that big of a deal BUT when you do that it keeps his 3 swing melee chain going which ENDS WITH A KNOCKUP, what makes this better is the fact that you can cancel his melee into any of his abilities, so you can knockup and guarantee his right click dmg, knockup and use the time they are falling to get a wall behind them, and it basically doubles his dmg being able to string left click with melee. 2. His walls allow so much flexibility you can block iron man ultra with 2 high walls, you can box people in with a wall and a ceiling and his e, you can get high ground with his slanted walls or just by looking down and walling, you can do a wall on the ground when running and block people off, I might make a video about all of this later tonight because I havnt seen anybody do this consistently but I believe Groot may be way better than people realize.

[@yarogblack1909]

if you find walking as slow as a snail, pressing m1 and occasionally holding m2 as "fun" I really don't know what to tell you lmao

[@logandavis6261]

Every tank has a skill shot aside from venom and doctor strange who has his portal and interesting purple magic debuff and venom who is actually quite strong. If these characters were cloned into overwatch you wouldn’t be saying this. Ps I’m plat 1 currently. I believe this is just a rage bait video. 1:20

[@theotrevisan2127]

so sad that overwatch had so many problems in stuff like balancing and competitive scene, because comparing to marvel rivals and paladins it's crystal clear how much better the overwatch engine and feel of the game are. it's no surprise it won game of the year. like the game is flawless is so many things

[@lootrshootr2440]

Venom feels like he’s missing an ability. I keep doing his dive, pop right click, get low, pop shields, get low, get out, rinse and repeat loop, and I keep feeling like I’m supposed to have another button to press. ANYTHING. A slow, a symbiote mine, something

[@adampennell704]

Problems with Ow: 5v5, super tanks, way to many passives, way to much healing and the balance team has no idea what the fuck their doing. Problems with Rivals: To much healing Rivals is some patch away from being an amazing game. At the current moment, rivals is in a way better place than ow. It’s not even close.

[@opticalmoose8091]

Problems with Rivals: Insta-locking 4-5 dps, boring tanks, way too many passives *on a single hero*, way too many useless abilities, much more healing than even Overwatch, and balance is going to be out of wack for a while.

[@vegascuti6931]

U forgot: unreal engine's ass optimization (shame when the game is made for casuals) and bad sound design

[@intellectual3868]

I find Peni to be super fun, to an extent I think she has a satisfying skill shot with her web snare since it can cancel ultimates and hold people in place long enough for them to die. however she is miserable to play on attack since there's no opportunities to set up with the spider nest.

[@FromabovellcMedia]

Eh, everyone has their opinion. The game has a lot of room for creativity. It’s a playground to learn combos and different strategies with this unique pool of characters. Comparing it to overwatch isn’t really a comparison because they’re different games, even tho they are in the same genre.

[@Dios_of_Autumn-1999]

I think the talk here is how limited that creativity is.

[@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289]

They also didn't learn from Overwatch with the CC lol

[@thorasskicker1751]

Wow, first time I just hard disagree with a take of yours. I'm having a BLAST playing Hulk. He is my go-to tank. His movement is very fun, and the game doesn't even tell you he can wall cling. He has a lot of outplay potential in his kit with his movement, stun, shield...the only thing that sucks is his ult is so awful lol. I have much more fun playing as Hulk than I do playing Overwatch in general rn.

[@Visions_in_Toyko]

Just enjoy the game, it’s really fun 🤩 f you stop comparing it to overwatch

[@ROADRAGE21]

for me it's really not about 5v5 or 6v6 i just really enjoy the tank gameplay in rivals, I already have 7 hours on venom and 6 on hulk and sure venom is easy but he's also mechanically intensive, if you land all 4 shots with crits and use your movement properly he's actually really fun. Hulk also has really really high uptime, doctor strange does a very significant amount of damage, magneto can harass the enemy and stand his ground surprisingly well, etc. i hop on ow for scrims, run a block of yet another sustain meta where it's just a staring contest except for the very few maps where I get to play winston. grinding ranked feels like a chore because the fun characters are just basically worthless unless i'm significantly better than the enemy or i run into arkoze again. sure you can say tank is boring in rivals but to me it's significantly more fun, it's much more chaotic the kits are very satisfying venom's web is straight out of an insomniac game strange does an insanely high amount of damage kidnapping people with thor is extremely fun and I can keep going. there are many satisfying and more importantly rewarding cooldowns and mechanics they don't all have to be skillshots

[@OmniJohnny]

Thor is supposed to be a badass demigod and feels like just a big dude with a sparkling hammer. No flight, gets two tapped by Hawkeye and all cooldowns are tied together. Clunky, kinda unfair and definitely not as fun as it should be. Behold the god of *dies*

[@joseph2000117]

Not making Wolverine an "ironfist" for vanguards was such a missed opportunity. Before i watch the vid the biggest lesson they didnt learn from Overwatch was not having more Lokis and Mantis, characters, if you squint could be called hybrid heros (pseudo-dps/healing). We needed blurred hero roles not destructable environments

[@eranoszrill8907]

i would argue that blurred hero roles are what we have in rivals rocket has comperable dps with his gun to punisher i melt tanks that dive in and you don't need to spam his balls as only 1 can heal a person if someone is already healed by a ball the next one you shoot flies past them instead of slowing down cloak and dagger you need to use your damage amp and you can also help out with the damage to burst a tank down or a priority target luna snow another one where you can just pierce through your allies and enemies to do both damage and healing i regularly finish games with more kills as my dps, same amount of damage, while having more healing than my co-healer if i even get one

[@MasterMemo]

I appreciate the nuance here, and discussing the fun aspect of the game. I'm enjoying Rivals a lot, but still like Overwatch and it's refreshing to hear someone analyze the game without just glazing Rivals and crapping on Overwatch. I want to see them both thrive since they're doing different thing. O enjoy Squirrel Girl, Mantis, Luna Snow, Sombra, Juno, and Ana and i feel like those characters won't exist in eaxh other's games.

[@Swordstealer101]

Same here. My man Venom is a blast for me which is odd I never really liked wrecking ball. But I enjoy the playstyle in rivals. Meanwhile I love OW rein the most lol

[@2ndstarlemonlight]

So far in 90% of my rank games I am the only one that play tank. I think you explained why. People including me are still in the honey moon phase of the new game. Also the marvel characters' charisma is also carrying. But when people start climbing rank, they will notice these problems more.

[@senseiitanaks]

I disagree with this "honeymoon phase" talk, nobody is arguing Mr is perfect but its fun just like overwatch felt in its earlier days. All we need to do is give them time and support so they don't end up like ow is right now

[@ArielHal9000]

​@@senseiitanaksDid you play OW Classic? It really opened my eyes to how bad balancing was at launch. In a month or 2 of changes, I'm sure people will come to realize how messy Rivals is.

[@senseiitanaks]

@@ArielHal9000 yes i did. and what i said still applies, the game was rough in the beginning but we didnt even realise it coz it was such a fun experience, then over time OW made changes that made the game even better after launch. i just dont understand why people like you are unwilling to give rivals the same patience to iron out the issues

[@LauraLovesHugs]

@@senseiitanaks the issue is that overwatch has now been out for years with exactly these same issues, and MR is very obviously a similar kind of game, so them not taking those issues from their competitor to heart is a bit disheartening and worrying. only time will tell where things go.

[@BiggDaddysCheese]

Capt. America feels 100% better with a thor on the team. His C actually has good poke/follow up and his shield throw is fun to try to hit multiple people