Marx: The Consequence of Ideas with R.C. Sproul

[@ligonier]

This message is from Dr. Sproul’s 35-part teaching series The Consequence of Ideas. Watch the entire series: www.ligonier.org/learn/series/consequences-of-ideas

[@Yesica1993]

Thank you to Team Ligonier for making so many of these resources available at no cost, for those of us who are broke and can't afford to buy them all. It does not go unnoticed and we truly appreciate it.

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. - John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. - Acts 3:19 If you’re in North America, please go check out any of the churches available to you: PCA, OPC, Rpcna/Rpc, Urcna, or a canrc church (These are conservative and actual Presbyterian churches) If you can’t find one of the conservative presby churches then, maybe a Lcms Lutheran church. If you are Scottish, I recommend the Free Church of Scotland and the APC. (Different from the Church of Scotland) If you’re English I recommend the Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England & Wales and the Free Church of England (Different from the Church of England) Also online you can look up church finders for each of the groups, it will show you locations

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

@@Yesica1993🐪

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. - John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. - Acts 3:19 If you’re in North America, please go check out any of the churches available to you: PCA, OPC, Rpcna/Rpc, Urcna, or a canrc church (These are conservative and actual Presbyterian churches) If you can’t find one of the conservative presby churches then, maybe a Lcms Lutheran church. If you are Scottish, I recommend the Free Church of Scotland and the APC. (Different from the Church of Scotland) If you’re English I recommend the Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England & Wales and the Free Church of England (Different from the Church of England) Also online you can look up church finders for each of the groups, it will show you locations :) .

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. - Acts 3:19 If you’re in North America, please go check out any of the churches available to you: PCA, OPC, Rpcna/Rpc, Urcna, or a canrc church (These are conservative and actual Presbyterian churches) If you can’t find one of the conservative presby churches then, maybe a Lcms Lutheran church If you are Scottish, I recommend the Free Church of Scotland and the APC. (Different from the Church of Scotland) If you’re English I recommend the Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England & Wales and the Free Church of England (Different from the Church of England) Also online you can look up church finders for each of the groups, it will show you locations :)

[@pd8170]

Once again, another great teaching by R. C. What is most astounding to me? Watching this in 2024 is that this had to be done at least 20 or better years ago. And his last comment about the last bastion of Marxism, existing is in the University is so absolutely true Today and he knew it all the way back then!!

[@garypotter5569]

The last bastion of Marxism is violent BLM mobs, violent Antifa mobs, violent pro-Palestine mobs, and virtually the entirety of the Democratic Party.

[@drivebyquipper]

We all knew it way back then.

[@JamesEverhart-jy1ri]

One of my favorite preachers who stayed true to God's Word until the end

[@jasonbourne5142]

Other than calvinism yes

[@michellecox6251]

R.C. KNEW what was happening in the American Universities way back then! Look at us now in 2024. I entered University in 1981. I was raised in the church and, by the grace of God alone, I saw what was happening. For my nursing degree, I had to take philosophy. It was so anti Christ it made me sick. Praise God for these sermons by RC that have been preserved.

[@jasonbourne5142]

Wow, good to know.

[@eo2149]

The best insight into and presentation concerning the history and philosophy and consequences of Marx's influence

[@garypotter5569]

"America is like a healthy body and it's resistance is threefold: it's patriotism, it's morality, and it's spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." -- Joseph Stalin "Give me four years to teach the children and the seed that I have sown will never be uprooted." -- Vladimir Lenin "The best revolutionary is a youth devoid of morals." -- Vladimir Lenin

[@DrFundies]

Haunting quotes

[@SamplaysMC12]

Crazy

[@scottnealtherealdeal]

One of my favorite teachings from this series.

[@mikeconway4224]

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

[@JamesStewartarmwrestling]

Ive been gaining knowledge listening to RC the past 2 plus years and life advice

[@izregistered]

Thanks again to RC for his insight and focus on God’s purpose for us all.

[@bkp1283]

I like listening to his thoughts.

[@devputh]

If any one interested, may Pl read marxism and philosophy by Thomas sowell

[@jesuschristbiblebiblestudy]

There is a great book by RC you may want to check out. It is entitled "The Consequences of Ideas: Understanding the Concepts That Shaped Our World." A very good resource on this topic. Blessings to you. Pastor John

[@rhondae8222]

Great theological teachings. Thanks for sharing.

[@devputh]

Labour theory of value was not mark's creation. It was introduced by adam smith and developed by ricardo. Marx coined this with socialist ideas from France and heglès idea of dialectical historical evolution and brought forward marxism

[@dianaavellanet8794]

Thank you for the enlightenment.👍🏻

[@jonhoward4884]

My gosh, RC was even well versed in Economic Theory, extremely knowledgeable man.

[@Arkeo36]

Our Lord on the topic of Marx: "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me."

[@reginaford8575]

Amen!

[@delicheres]

The thing is there is always a owner of some sort

[@theuserofdoom]

And?

[@Yesica1993]

And the ultimate owner is God, which is who Marx hated most of all!

[@delicheres]

@@theuserofdoom And you will have to pay anyway , with money or work you will have to pay .

[@theuserofdoom]

@@delicheres Well it seems like you and Marx agree perfectly then. He just noticed a bit more about how owners and workers typically interact.

[@delicheres]

@@theuserofdoom no We don’t , various owners means various forms of management and relationships while One owner means monolithic obedience .

[@bobbie4862]

Why is it not surprising that Marx came from the ruling class and higher education. Hmm.

[@devputh]

KarlMarx wasn't a student of Hegel physically. He picked up his ideas. Is it not?

[@theuserofdoom]

Yeah, student of means ideas

[@caseycockerham3925]

It necessitates Marx being a student on some level for him to have picked up another's ideas.

[@devputh]

@@JesusismyLordandsavior1 Thank you for your inqury. Whilst The teacher said so. I belive what he said was that he picked up the ideas - when he said he was a student. In fact, Marx completely dedeified Hegalian theory

[@caseycockerham3925]

@@HearGodsWord yes sir. Facts and logic.

[@Yesica1993]

The expression, "a student of", does not necessarily limit the situation to that of a physical classroom setting where one person is being formally taught by the other person. As long as the person has adopted / gone in depth with the ideas of another, that person can be said to have been their "student."

[@gregtyler4002]

Marx would have been loved the wisdom of Ecclesiastes, but that's not where his heart turned!

[@allpoints-tv]

There is quite the possibility that Marx knew about the books of the Old Testament, his father’s family had generations of rabbis.

[@kkwok9]

There is no body to dip their finger in cool, refreshing water for Karl Marx now.

[@SojournerDidimus]

So Marx naively overlooked the fact that the ruling class is also the class that runs the government? Is this the core of why Marxism is doomed to fail? I've always understood that greed and sloth are the failure of Marxism. What to make of the controlled progression of Marxism in China?

[@reginaford8575]

China deals in Capitalism also

[@jasonbourne5142]

​@@reginaford8575not completely you fool

[@EL_FIN_ESTÁ_CERCA]

A *calvinist* approaching a person to preach *his* “gospel”: "Hi! I have good news for you! I don't know if God loves you, the most probable thing is that He hates you. I also don't know if He died for you in the cross, only a very few were chosen… But Listen!" Sad but true! This is the false gospel that is being preached in many churches. We need urgently to bring back the *powerful, simple* and *true gospel* summarized in *John 3:16.* If God says that he died for everyone, *it means that He died for everyone:* *Isaiah 53:6* ; *John 1:29* ; *John 3:16,17* ; *John 4:42* ; *2 Corinthians 5:14,15* ; *Romans 5:18* ; *1 Timothy 2:6* ; *1 Timothy 4:10,11* ; *1 John 2:2* ; *John 12:47* ; *1 John 4:14* ; *Hebrews 2:9* …etc Let's be very careful, let's not be found liars.

[@Roger-r7s]

One difficulty, especially with the right, is the need to try to demonize Marx, and fit him into their prejudicial biased simplistic stereotypes of the left, and not actually the perspective and truth of the left; and what can at times be very difficult, advanced and sophisticated modes and ways of acting and understanding. It is unfortunate that many confuse those who act as interpreters of Marx, like Lenin and Stalin, with Marx's own ideas. One of the problems with Marx is that he can often be contradictory and ambivalent especially with respect to what the changing times and circumstances require as well as his own course of intellectual development. This is why there is not any one definitive and authoritative "correct" interpretation of Marx. Marx is so multifaceted and complicated, and in some cases, arguing more than one self consistent position. Much like there are many denominations within the broad sweep of Christian theology and faith, there is a very close parallel with the many diverse schools and varieties of Marxism. Any kind of sweeping denunciations and "debunking" end up being completely misguided and wrong headed, like trying to discredit all of Christianity by criticizing the Catholic church, which will have no relevance whatsoever with respect to Protestantism. Now Marx was not always right but he was not always wrong either, so any serious Marx study would need to be very circumspect and sensitive to these subtleties, complexities and nuances. Also it is important to place Marx in his European cultural and historical background context. Because his thinking is profoundly shaped by the history of feudalism and the rise of the capitalistic and commerce dominated culture and civilization. Since the churches, have been closely identified with defending and protecting the monarchical and aristocratic, corrupt and obsolete status quo, it is understandable why Marx would feel a great deal of antagonism and antipathy towards such kinds of religious mythology that serves to maintain peoples acquiescence to their oppression and subservience to the existing unjust order and systems. Incidentally I am a born again Christian, theologically orthodox and NOT a modernist or liberal theologically, however my God is the God of truth, (yes the truth will often put you into uncomfortable places where conformity, dogma, and group think rules) and not a captive of anybodies political and economic philosophy. I am a democratic Socialist but not a Marxist or communist but I realize that we must recognize for good or bad, or mixed, the impacts of Marxism on western culture and society. I do believe that Marx's multi dimensional critique of the laissez faire capitalism of his time is probably the most brilliant analysis available. That fact does not necessarily imply that the solutions proposed for the very serious problems, the evils and errors of capitalism, are the right ones. The main problem with the authoritarian even totalitarian forms of Communism, is that this type of socialism is replacing one absolutist capitalist system with an absolutist socialist one. Hence all of the attempts to use violent revolution and to totally abolish all forms of market economics and private ownership result in a totalitarian absolutist state collectivism, so the problem with Marx is not socialism, it is the absolutist utopian purist form of socialism, that he and all other fanatical communists, want to force upon the world.

[@Yesica1993]

@user-bl7oe2md4p "One difficulty, especially with the right, is the need to try to demonize Marx, and fit him into their prejudicial biased simplistic stereotypes of the left, and not actually the perspective and truth of the left; and what can at times be very difficult, advanced and sophisticated modes and ways of acting and understanding. " Nobody needs to "demonize" him. All you have to do is examine his ideas as well as his personal life to see how wicked he was. His ideas were evil. Wherever they have been practiced in this world, it has led to nothing but oppression, misery, and mass murder. He even treated his own family horribly. He was a wicked man. He was demonically influenced, and maybe straight up possessed.

[@kensawka]

To simplify the difference in the productivity of a farmer in the West compared to a farmer in a developed country to mainly the tools that one has and the other does not, shows you have never spent a significant amount of time in a developing country.

[@soggyjungle6065]

Nobody wants to be that 'like' #