She's such an amazing personality, every bit as deeply knowledgeable about Rome as any other highly regarded scholar, yet not in the least overly dignified and soaked in pomposity. Mary Beard is truly the historian to revive THE PEOPLE of Rome, and not just those who assassinated each other up on the Palatine. Thank you for uploading the lecture.
@Cruisey12347 жыл бұрын
She's a pest. A champagne Socialist who analyses history through rose-colored lenses and uses weasel words of egalitarianism to alter the truth.
@Cruisey12347 жыл бұрын
That's not what I meant.
@Cruisey12347 жыл бұрын
"Muh Roman Republic multiculturalism"
@Cruisey12347 жыл бұрын
She is a left wing socialist spewing untruths and lies about Rome. Everything she says in this video and her documentaries has left wing undertones, it's basically propaganda lying to people about the way Rome really was. 'People coming together this', 'multiculturalism' that is all her material consists of. She is an amateur - The BBC could have found far better people to use for their documentary than this half-wit but the people who actually know anything about history tend not to be socialist freaks like Mary Beard. Insufferable woman.
@tophers37567 жыл бұрын
Ryan, blinded by your ideology, I see.
@inkcap10025 жыл бұрын
as a stone mason and some one who works in the heritage industry i have to say that mary is the most informative interesting and knowledgeable lady i have ever had the privilege to watch and listen to ,and makes the subject of classics understandable to the layman,and like me understandable to the layman with a keen interest in history. thankyou mary beard .
@hallets19567 жыл бұрын
Mary explains things so even a peanut would understand it. "Togas up, pants down, everybody shitting together" Can't get a better description that that. I love this woman.
@juliechi61663 жыл бұрын
She is amazing.
@lilyrose98889 ай бұрын
Mary is the best of the best. She brings history alive, definitely an authority on the Roman empire
@lilyrose98889 ай бұрын
Ps l love this lady
@jc.connor58827 жыл бұрын
Fabulous. I could listen to Mary all day. So engaging.
@tavanemoore12603 жыл бұрын
I LOVE how we can see her own interests in what she's saying in her facial expressions, pauses and body language! She's a favorite!
@johnbuckley80993 ай бұрын
Well said, totally agree.
@SerDunk4 жыл бұрын
Her documentaries are SO great! Highly recommend them :)
@DM-kv9kj5 жыл бұрын
Mary makes the finest, most carefully studied and well-presented documentaries on ancient Rome in the world. Like Carl Sagan in presenting his series, Cosmos, the genuine passion and carefully studied knowledge and humanity comes through in her presentation a sadly extremely rare skill these days as most documentaries are overblown junk full of vague facts, poorly understood and focused almost entirely on "epic" (ie, annoying) music, special effects and some airhead presenter more concerned with trying to look cool than with actual connection with the audience and real teaching.
@anuradhainamdar89674 жыл бұрын
I agree, though had never heard of Dame Mary Beard before. This lecture on Roman rule was interesting. Have seen many Hollywood movies on Roman empire, her comment that that Caesar was a hero as well as a dangerous dictator was immensely helpful.
@AmericanShia7863 жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting this video. Prof. Mary Beard is an excellent scholar, writer, and lecturer.
@lightningplasma6 жыл бұрын
I love Mary's roman history documentaries. Mary has this ability, through her narrative, to transport you back in time to the roman world. thanks Mary
@p0xus9 жыл бұрын
Thank you for uploading this lecture, Mary Beard is one of the best Roman historians in my opinion. Although... I wish you would have shown us the ring.
@MattieK095 жыл бұрын
apparently you don't know that many scholars then ...
@ArmorDoge5 жыл бұрын
Matt K sigh
@emiliodiaz39275 жыл бұрын
Matt K can you name me some I’m tired of Mary myself ...
@emiliodiaz39275 жыл бұрын
Justin Legault thanks 🙏 Mary beard seems to have a monopoly on Rome in KZbin lol
@SassyMa_5 жыл бұрын
@@MattieK09 Rude! Gezzz...?
@yaboyed57792 жыл бұрын
Her love and passion for Rome makes her documentaries so beautiful.
@BonanzaRoad5 жыл бұрын
Excellent lecture...and SPQR is a fascinating, well written and compelling book...
@n.l.vannstallings46642 жыл бұрын
I'm so proud of her and everything she has accomplished. I would absolutely love to travel with her. Mary, thank you for giving the common people of history a voice.
@northrupn10b8 жыл бұрын
Fantastic! The book is highly readable. No wonder she is such a beloved figure-so down to earth.
@Labienus8 жыл бұрын
Is it highly readable?
@leonlawson21963 жыл бұрын
@@Labienus Its highly readable.
@xyz123839418 жыл бұрын
More Mary! Adore Mary.
@darkfuture32913 жыл бұрын
Mary is absolutely brilliant as ever and the sound recording is good quality. A little miffed that at 41 minutes in she discusses at length the discovery of an emperor's ring and when she says 'and here it is', we do not get to see it. I resisted making any crude jokes here.
@01mattsparks2 жыл бұрын
The editor was snoozing at that point
@rickbruno39758 жыл бұрын
A wonderful, fun and informative lecture! It would have been nice to see Scipio's ring, though.
@boxorfurnace Жыл бұрын
After reading her book, SPQR, I spent a couple of weeks traveling around the back roads of Rome looking at the “living history” that still exists all over that town. Thanks Mary!
@richardstevens28675 жыл бұрын
Love the lecture, no image of the ring was a bit a of disappointment.
@prophetherbandderp27334 жыл бұрын
yep I failed at finding it on google too.
@danielchequer58424 жыл бұрын
I was expecting for some coment with the link, this is really frustrating for me
@bluecoloredlines3 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly, the cameraperson really slept on this one, I suspect they weren’t even listening. You had one job.
@ajayredonkulus66283 жыл бұрын
@@bluecoloredlines It was intentional. It's almost certain that the Duke allowed her to use the image for this lecture. You are not attending the lecture, you're watching a filmed version of it. The image is not able to be found online because that's how private collections work.
@Temujin19915 жыл бұрын
This woman is my absolute favourite historian. She's the reason I aspire to be one
@jesleysnipes37584 жыл бұрын
Incredible! Love your work Mary Beard!
@ChoppingtonOtter8 жыл бұрын
Mary Beard always brings out the human side rather than just dry facts.
@ulteriormotive18638 жыл бұрын
What do you mean by "the human side", the subject is human history. The facts are what is necessary, nobody gives a shit about your feely-feels.
@stevenpicanso68016 жыл бұрын
Mary gives us not just facts, but some intricate details that may be overlooked by other scholars, or rather just disregarded. Perfect example, her closing sentence(s) about her angle of beliefs on Brutus and Cassius. She is able to paint a picture with her facts, revealing in our own opinions and thoughts; what to make of ancient Rome from a realistic perspective.
@squamish42445 жыл бұрын
The feely-feels matter, because that a big part of what we are. History is taught all wrong in schools, like these people were somehow not like us. But they were, and the best historians communicate that.
@PresidentSunday5 жыл бұрын
I suggest that you don't read many scholars of ancient Rome if you think that intricate or private details aren't central in a large number of them.
@barbarab32559 жыл бұрын
I LOVE her, she would be my dream dinner guest! and Terry Jones
@shellyhill68048 жыл бұрын
If you pull that off I'd like to come too, please. 😬
@RobRoyBoaz8 жыл бұрын
Me too !
@malvolio017 жыл бұрын
Mary Beard, Napoleon and Donald Trump
@fedyno4reviews7 жыл бұрын
Tony Robinson
@mrpatriot82797 жыл бұрын
Me also but also invite Dr. Thomas Madden Medieval scholar and Dr Peter Heather
@erinb75135 жыл бұрын
♥️ you Mary. I'm not big on lectures of any sort but can't stop watching. Absolutely ♥️ your Meet the Romans series.. we need more, plz, plz, plz..
@ashlynwanderer4 жыл бұрын
the questions at the end: 45:29 48:01 49:29 50:43 53:19 56:28 56:40
@dawnsellitti79688 ай бұрын
I just got her book SPQR. Mary Is so passionate about history.
@zyxw20008 ай бұрын
I've been bingeing on her videos. Wish my history instructors in college had been like her.
@Shoff787 жыл бұрын
I'm sure Cicero would have appreciated the idea of Mary Beard talking about Scipio Bearded. If she made the talk in Barbados, she'd never hear the end of it!
@jendisini51048 жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting this. Saves us a trip to cambridge!
@waltertaljaard14883 жыл бұрын
A Dutch parlementarian, who was newly elected in 2017, also opened his maiden speech with a quotation from Cicero's 'In Catalinam.'
@kirstinhagglund87888 ай бұрын
I love Ms Beard and would listen to her all day ❤
@Daniel-kc8br9 жыл бұрын
How can you not show us the ring?! Why?!
@tobitoes10527 жыл бұрын
Because there are no pictures of it and it's actually in his sarcophagus in the Vatican. It would be pretty much impossible to show a picture of it
@professorsogol58245 жыл бұрын
@@tobitoes1052 That's not what she said. She explained how the ring went from the Vatican to a French scholar and on to someone in England where it ended up in a castle in the north of England, and she clicks the controller for her slides and said "Here it is" So why don't the people at the 92st Y show use the image she projected???
@danielchequer58424 жыл бұрын
@@professorsogol5824 exactly, there are no images on google of the ring. That was very frustrating
@1cenobite5 жыл бұрын
This was such a fun read , Highly recommend.
@fessellsahmed25875 жыл бұрын
Mass respect and love for Mary. Learnt so much. True celebrity for me.
@kendn016 жыл бұрын
WHY didn't they show Scipio's signet ring after Mary Beard's story??????????? ANNOYING
@hikemastersomg4 жыл бұрын
from 11:05 onward priceless and just pure gold! And with her wonderful pronunciations!!!! L m a o!!!!!!
@JayDoubleYou Жыл бұрын
my personal favorite person on British Television, Mary is so interesting Great at Explaining Everything Rome, I think I've watched every Documentary she's done learnt so much xxx
@lightningplasma6 жыл бұрын
I wished Mary would do more documentaries on the eastern roman empire. The history of Byzantium seems limited/lacking in the literature or maybe I'm not looking hard enough to find more sources.
@colmhain4 жыл бұрын
John Romer wrote and presented an excellent doc on the Eastern Roman Empire called "Byzantium". Key word it on a KZbin search, you'll find it.
@samdefore26923 жыл бұрын
Byzantine is a made up word and they never called themselves that. It’s another Northern European historian who decided to rewrite history start uses the word Byzantine
@bobfrog48363 жыл бұрын
Check out John Julius Norwich. He's written a solid history of the Byzantine empire.
@jcortese33003 жыл бұрын
Just ordered her book thanks to this lecture.
@andrewhassett42828 жыл бұрын
One of the best people to explore Rome in a long time. Good lecture...but wtf? SHOW US THE RING!!!
@christinehart91065 жыл бұрын
I KNOW!!!!
@reneknaap17453 жыл бұрын
Yes!!!! Waiting, waiting…. But there may be special family conditions
@magicnovos49004 жыл бұрын
my best teacher of history
@JayDoubleYou Жыл бұрын
I'm instantly Transported back to Roman days when she explains the way it was xxx
@CAnon-mg1xm8 жыл бұрын
Mary is fantastic. I wish I could travel Rome with HER!.
@arvindominguez57432 жыл бұрын
This women got in interested into Ancient Rome at age of 18 and now I’m 22 years of age glad to say I’ve studied well over many great eras from the Romans, Greece, Aztec to modern Hitler henrich Himmler ! Such history should not be forgotten
@BilgemasterBill6 жыл бұрын
Sadly, this is not the first time I've watched one of these lectures by Dr. Beard where they've neglected to display some key visual element mentioned...just the one that gave me the sorest case of blueballs. Show the RING!!! The Precious....The Precious...
@jibberjabberman4 жыл бұрын
shes one of the five guests id have around my table for any dinner
@mikepxg6406 Жыл бұрын
Brilliant. Thank you.
@brendawarren41132 жыл бұрын
Was the camera operator on break, so that we didn't get to see the ring? Inconceivable.
@howardjohnston61126 жыл бұрын
I am reading S.P.Q.R. at the moment. Her authorship is excellent with a very almost conversational style. I find it a real page-turner. I love ancient history but generally read more about the Greeks. So I turned to her for a basic complete Roman history book, and was very pleased by the result. One thing I think she neglects a little is perhaps just how much the Romans were 'Hellenised'. But apart from that minor quibble I have no problem in recommending this work to everybody!!!
@martianemperor51376 жыл бұрын
See the Intelegence squared debate Greece V Rome She proves the Romans to have, of the MOST part, a non-greek culture. The idea that Rome plagerized Greece is dead.
@MrDieselakias6 жыл бұрын
I've watched this debate. It is unfair to say that Rome did not plagiarize Greece.cThe whole western world is heavily influenced by Greece whereas Roman philosophers and scholars expressed their admiration for greek stuff. She just said that part of the Roman architecture is a bit modified greek architecture and not exact copy. Of course, it couldn't be exactly the same...In terms of a debate, it is normal to go a bit over the top and imply that Rome wasn''t Hellenised.
@martianemperor51375 жыл бұрын
@@MrDieselakias Wrong, USA was founded on ROMAN beliefs in LIBERTAS... As was Republican France, just read the literature. Robespiere, Washington etc all credited Rome for their beliefs. Napoleon admiration of Rome etc Napoleon even held the title First CONSUL, as in ROMAN consulship... Also the best sellers of antiquity are the works of JULIUS CAESAR, not Euripedes, Plato or any Greek.
@martianemperor51375 жыл бұрын
@@MrDieselakias Rome had large public lavatories and a fire department, Greece had neither...
@MrDieselakias5 жыл бұрын
hey, these are just statements taken from her speech at the debate...Romans copied Greeks and imitated and adopted their culture. Talking about fire departments in the ancient years is done just to show-off. Of course they had better organization on this stuff because they needed it, they had to deal with big structures in a vast city...this doesn't mean that they were superior. If it wasn't for Greeks, western world wouldn't have existed at all. Romans were helllenised, this went on until the Turks captured Constantinople and Greek scholars started the Renaissance.
@HappyQuailsLC4 жыл бұрын
I would have really liked to see the ring!
@lochvids1086 жыл бұрын
Love logical thinkers always 😁♥️
@samdefore26923 жыл бұрын
Quite amazing that their Roman burial 2500 years ago is exactly how we ourselves bury our dead. Even the design of the casket quite similar something you could see today, inscriptions memorializing is a tradition we do today.
@andrewchim8079 жыл бұрын
Why didn't you show the ring!?!
@Spckeck6 жыл бұрын
... A defense of Caesar from someone other then me!?! Nice.
@acchaladka4 жыл бұрын
If Dame Mary were available for dinner with Cicero, I’d be all in. Let’s add Leonardo Da Vinci or Dante Alighieri, and probably the biblical Ruth if she existed, or Hypatia.
@Splodge5427 жыл бұрын
One of my favourite professors on the telly. It's a short list.
@kestockbridge7 жыл бұрын
Betthany Huges is also very good.
@squamish42445 жыл бұрын
Are you not entertained?
@jasonhare85402 жыл бұрын
I'm a simple man . I see Mary Beard I hit like ... If you're just now finding this in 2022 like I did you may or may not know she just released a documentary. Very up to date and she does show us the ice cores . It's very cool no pun intended . *Imagine living a full life and basically being remembered for your sex life . I don't know who decided to put that on that woman's tombstone but I hope she had that kind of sense of humor .
@amgymrat45465 жыл бұрын
No ring picture?! Ugh
@michaeljrothenberg8 жыл бұрын
wheres the picture of the ring?
@michaelbatarick9617Ай бұрын
Michael Wood, Brian Cox, David Attenborrough, and Mary Beard, all the best presenters on the planet, there's definitely a common theme goin on there
@robertcalamusso42184 жыл бұрын
Mary is a genius and wonderful educator - bravo Mary !!! ✋🏻
@trueromancat79789 жыл бұрын
Let's start a poll:) if you could meet an Ancient Romans, a man and a woman, who would they be and why?
@josephmoore47649 жыл бұрын
+Isabella H Easily Marcus Aurelius
@maxkurtson98929 жыл бұрын
+Isabella H An old Augustus Caesar
@eduardomen819 жыл бұрын
+Joseph Moore kind of obvious for people who know . .. .
@PosthumousAddress8 жыл бұрын
+Joseph Moore Good choice! Have you read Meditations? I'm not at all religious, but I find reading it to be a deeply moving, almost spiritual, experience. The idea that someone can reach out and touch your mind from 2000 years previously... and in such a personal way. I completely agree, I would choose Marcus Aurelius
@khalidalali3518 жыл бұрын
Germanicus and his great father Nero Claudius Drusus! and I would love to meet Octavia daughter of Atia and sister of Octavius Augustus ! Why? Nero Drusus: He was the epitome of manliness, and I would love to be his student. Germanicus: The manifestation and embodiment of courage, wisdom, modesty, justice, and empathy. I would have loved to fight under his banners in Germania against the traitor Arminius. Octavia: Simply because she was a goddess among people not only women. Ps: I do recommend that everyone should read John Edward William's novel "Augustus."
@treintaydiez4 жыл бұрын
I absolutely love this woman
@hunkhk Жыл бұрын
What a woman - love her passion and intellect
@intractablemaskvpmGy8 жыл бұрын
Mary is so awesome! I'm looking forward to the day that the Dollar is stronger than the pound (arriving soon in 2017). Then I will pay perhaps equal value for a lackluster stay in London.
@emilywong46015 жыл бұрын
What is the title of her book?
@Sean-y1m4 жыл бұрын
SPQR a history of Ancient Rome by Mary Beard it’s quite good and well written
@tylersherritt9373 жыл бұрын
You really didn’t get the information from watching? 🤣
@leoleonard15803 жыл бұрын
I can’t believe they don’t show the ring!?
@chriseliothernandez4 жыл бұрын
Show the frigging ring dang it.
@fuferito5 жыл бұрын
As learned and knowledgeable as Mary Beard is, her pronouncing of famous Roman names, like Africanus and Aemilianus as 'Afri-kaynus' and 'Aemili-eynus' is baffling.
@asburycollins91824 жыл бұрын
that changes with country and tutors.
@UAPReportingCenter2 жыл бұрын
Mary's the best!
@prophetherbandderp27334 жыл бұрын
Not showing Barbatus's ring was a let down.
@HappyQuailsLC4 жыл бұрын
I thought that Latin was primarily a written language and one of proclamations and formal announcements, rather than being a conversational, day to day intimately shared language used among individuals at home and privately.
@omarilawson62503 жыл бұрын
Oh no, they forgot to show the ring from Scipio Barbatus' tomb at Alnwick! How frustrating!!!
@oldi184 Жыл бұрын
Wow! A man from Palmyra in Syria traveled almost 4000 km to Hadrian's wall he bought a local slave - a woman called Regina he fell in love with her, he freed her, and married her 1800 years ago. What a story! The Roman Empire was like none the other.
@MarieAntoinette1938_tmc Жыл бұрын
why don't they show the ring ???
@-narc-54952 жыл бұрын
Dude the amount of freaking ads
@tempiodelgusto695 жыл бұрын
Send those downvoters for a day into the old sewers of Rome ...that will teach them .
@clarkkent45954 жыл бұрын
Positive answer
@___bluff___Ай бұрын
Favourite historian, she is just fantastic ❤
@lloovvaallee8 жыл бұрын
I want to see the ring.
@93918628 жыл бұрын
+lloovvaallee me too.
@Badtastemamma8 жыл бұрын
+lloovvaallee it will be for legal reasons probably
@MontyGumby8 жыл бұрын
what do you mean ?
@TheByteknight3 жыл бұрын
Not showing the ring.. ??
@FAMA-185 жыл бұрын
The only thing is , I didn’t agree with her view on Julius Caesar.
@nickmoser77852 жыл бұрын
I always find it interesting that many lower-class foods in the ancient and medieval epochs are now considered to be the diet of the upper class. Also, I find it odd that Roman cuisine is closer to modern Asian food than modern Italian food. An example would be the use of fish sauce which is usually an Asian thing(especially in the South-East) but occasionally is used in European cuisine; such as Garum/Colatura di alici, Anchovy essence, and Worchester sauce. I could be wrong I am a bit simple.
@Stierlitz8 жыл бұрын
SHOW US THE FUCKING SIGNET RING!!!
@tobitoes10527 жыл бұрын
Impossible. It's in his sarcophagus in the Vatican so if you want pictures you'll have to take that up with the Pope
@CarniFitMeАй бұрын
Ridiculous amount of adverts
@robertgiles91244 жыл бұрын
When did Sister Wendy leave the Church, and why the name change? Asking for a friend.
@user-yp7be3vz2e2 жыл бұрын
I was thinking of who ud choose to sit with from ancient Rome and my choices were the same. Esp. When it co es to aggripina. She's fascinating
@normansidey52584 жыл бұрын
One must remember history is just an opinion of the writer, this writer maintains that black legionaries were common place in Roman Britain, no evidence for this. This then makes her other observations and research doubtful.
@stringflogger3 жыл бұрын
SHOW ME THE FRICKING RING!
@kierangormley66983 жыл бұрын
Alongside Dennis Skinner and Owen Jones the one person I would give anything to meet and talk to. Or should I say listen to !!!
@lewisnapton83993 жыл бұрын
Mary Beard's imagination is boundless, clever, and superb!
@listonheinz9103 Жыл бұрын
Free tip: Set speed to 1.25x. Flows very well.
@ethanperkins97954 жыл бұрын
Mary Beard has style..just saying
@konteyou8 жыл бұрын
reading on latin letters, with more than 50% latin words :))
@princessbubblee6998 жыл бұрын
Jesus Christ. Who the hell edited this? The big reveal is the signet ring which they don't bother to show.
@ElinT138 жыл бұрын
Maybe they did not chow the ring, because the owner holds the copyright to its pictures and does not want it to be shown?
@princessbubblee6998 жыл бұрын
Maybe then they shouldn't make a video of a lecture where it's the big reveal?
@ElinT138 жыл бұрын
Just because you cannot see one picture out of a lecture of an hour? That'd be a pity.
@princessbubblee6998 жыл бұрын
Quite an idiotic defense.
@ElinT138 жыл бұрын
No, a sensible one instead of making a big fuss over a single picture.
@ravenkamali3 жыл бұрын
I love Mary Beard but I don't agree with everything she says, particularly regarding Livia. If Livia did not kill all the potential heirs to Augustus, then the fates really were on her side that her son Tiberius should be the next emperor and Tiberius paid her by letting her corpse rot and did not even attend her funeral.
@juanbautistagonzalezalvare43664 жыл бұрын
Nero had bad press, he was gnostic.
@ruraledition4 жыл бұрын
Mary has an innate comprehension of the relationship between politics and society which is why she manages to have us grasp exactly what the Romans were about. Power for a few and a reasonable standard of living for everyone else. Nothing has changed. I guess that's why ancient Rome today is fascinating because it is a model for better being able to understand politics today. Her presentation is passionate and she remains unbiased. So thank you Mary. Can't get enough of you!! As for the Roman Baths, I imagine that they are not unlike modern public swimming pools today. Although the Romans are projected as being transparent in artworks surviving today, that is no different to how the Media and art project people as being today. But individuals are in fact not so transparent and even less so in Roman times I believe. Modesty would have been foremost in the mind of women at least (unless perhaps they had attractive bodies), and the need to retain personal space and privacy in congested living conditions to protect themselves against stalking and harrasment in a lawless society might have just been a natural inclination. Women are always at the centre of morality, culture and civilization. Hey the Goddess of Victory is a woman after all. The Romans had monogamous commited relationships since they married. I have always wondered what the average family size was. How many children did they have, since so many of them died as children. And many women died in their twenties. I can see people hanging around Baths on sunny afternoons in segregated groups of women, children and men dipping themselves wrapped in swathes of fabric. Perhaps even doing laundry in it. People of Rome were exceptionally industrious and hard working. The luxury of resplendidly naked languishment and being massaged in oils by slaves, would have belonged only to the rich and famous. Only they could afford the being so titillated while everyone else would have been gossiping to death about how candid and debauched they were. Again nothing has changed. As for their pagan religion of worshipping many gods for various different needs, I think that arose from a "fend for yourself" type attitude of not knowing who to turn to in times of need. After all there were no religious leaders until the Flavians came into power. There is a lot of speculation to be had. But I am particularly grateful to Mary for opening our eyes up to the diversity of peoples that Rome was. After all society civilization and politics is about humanity and how best to support it. And I suppose the emperors tried their best!
@joshuawaring41804 жыл бұрын
I think any historian can tell the relationship between social and political history.
@Ivan-te5rv3 жыл бұрын
This woman is just fantastic despite I do not agree with some of her commnets.
@sslaia Жыл бұрын
This is how I wish my history teacher should have been...