Vile Vicissitudes of Virtuous Vengeance

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

🎙 SHOW NOTES Steven and Chris obsess over issues one through seven of the quintessential ‘80s comic book, Comico’s GRENDEL (1986), featuring perhaps the dopest indie comics character of all time; they cover roughly the first half of the “Devil’s Legacy” story arc and reckon with the lasting resonance of Matt Wagner’s extraordinary exploration of evil. Mask Off, Lady Vengeance! RE: GRENDEL: “…a brave and possibly even reckless experiment that has succeeded admirably." - Alan Moore (WATCHMEN) 🧭 TIMESTAMPS 00:00 - Show Music Fade-in 00:32 - Intro to GRENDEL. Move over, Batman! The Dark Knight ain’t the only violent vigilante in town! Cue a valiant attempt to summarize the fascinatingly unique, complex concept of GRENDEL 03:12 - “DEVIL’S LEGACY” …Christine Spar dons the mask of the fiend. SHE is GRENDEL! 20:39 - The amazing Pander Brothers! ...and the inking of their highly stylized work - touching on ‘80s fashion art, Aeon Flux, and Patrick Nagel. The Pander Bros = style AND substance, plus “They draw some of the best hands in comics!” 29:10 - The eye-popping sales of the first issue of GRENDEL - 68,000 copies! 30:54 - How to pronounce “Comico” 37:22 - DC Comics’ amazing BLUE DEVIL by Paris Cullins, Dan Mishkin & Gary Cohn 38:42 - The cleverly titled TEMPUS FUGITIVE by Ken Steacy; NOW Comics, ASTRO BOY, SPEED RACER 40:17 - THE SACRED & THE PROFANE by Dean Motter & Ken Steacy 41:14 - The bizarre & mostly unnoticed WAR BEARS from Dark Horse Comics by Margaret Atwood (!) & Ken Steacy 42:38 - Our conjecture re: why Matt Wagner brought in other artists on GRENDEL and why modern comics artists are no longer able to do long-ass runs on a series 48:15 - The looser, more gestural art of Hayden Sherman and Ashley Wood - drawing awesome comics with styles built for speed 50:57 - The super dense verbiage of Matt Wagner’s writing in this run of GRENDEL 55:06 - “THE DEVIL’S LAIR,” the GRENDEL letter column - Diana Schutz responds to a critical letter about Matt’s “wordy” approach, defending his “intentionally complex” writing choices 1:01:15 - GRENDEL: WARCHILD, Grendel Prime, the exquisite art of Simon Bisley 1:04:33 - Great unfinished stories in comic books - THE AERIALIST, TYRANT, BIG NUMBERS 1:08:51 - Edvin Biukovic & Darko Macan, the brilliant Croatian artist/writer team that created GRENDEL TALES: DEVILS AND DEATHS 1:12:33 - The progressive, multicultural, racial dynamics in this run of GRENDEL 1:13:33 - “…There’s so much greatness in the idea of GRENDEL…” 1:37:57 - The similarities between the mask designs for GRENDEL and SPAWN Comics Rot Your Brain! is a deep dive into ‘80s comics (plus a few noteworthy exceptions). Screenwriters Chris Derrick (STAR TREK: PICARD) and Steven Bagatourian (AMERICAN GUN) discuss their favorite books, runs, and creators from the Bronze Age. + We appreciate your support of the show via Patreon: www.patreon.com/comicsrotyourbrain

[@anthonyjr9722]

I’m almost 40 and I haven’t seen this character since I was a kid getting free comics at the library. This makes me smile

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Happy to provide you with a smile - we all need more of those! And props to your childhood library for giving out copies of GRENDEL to kids - now that’s a cool library! - Steven

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Wow, your public library had Grendel! That’s awesome and shocking. - Chris

[@RarebitFiends]

Fantastic! I've always thought the series is a study of evil as a perception, rather than a fixed thing. Hunter Rose is objectively evil, Christine Spar and Brian Li Sung were both tragic figures, Eppy Thatcher was heroic while being viewed as the devil incarnate by the general population. Orion I is heroic and viewed as such, and Grendel Prime is much like Eppy, the hero of his stories but for most of them viewed by the general public as a devil.

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Hmmmmm… “…a study of evil as a perception.” Well said! And yeah, that’s a fascinating lens through which to view all of the various Grendels. The whole concept of this comic is so brilliant that it could literally go on forever and yet always feel relevant to the world at any given time. It’s just so well conceived. Thanks for the thought provoking comment! - Steven

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

We might do Grendel War Child and/or some Grendel Tales. - Chris

[@RarebitFiends]

I would love to hear you two discuss Ginger Fox too. :D Mike Baron and Mitch O'Connell created the original Comico-published graphic novel, and relevant to this episode, Baron collaborated with the Pander Bros on a 4 issue Ginger Fox mini. I would love to hear your thoughts on their own sci-fi comic XXX too.

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

I never read Ginger Fox but I remember seeing it and always being curious about it. I actually have read the Pander Bros’ XXX, their sci-fi comic - I picked it up in single issues and also got the monster purple trade collecting all 12 or whatever. To be honest, I thought it looked amazing - the two-tone art was lovely - but my recollection is that I had trouble caring about or finishing the story. I would be down to revisit it, tho! Thanks for the great comments! - Steven

[@RarebitFiends]

@@ComicsRotYourBrain Ginger Fox is interesting, the kind of comic that could only happen in the 1980s. Ginger is a movie studio exec. I know you guys are Mike Baron marks (me too) and between Mitch O'Connell and the Pander Bros, the art is great and fun throughout. And weird, XXX is one of my favorite comics from that era. It's been a decade or two since I sat down to read it cover to cover though. Your comment has me questioning myself, I am going to have to give it a re-read too. 😅

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

@@RarebitFiends Ginger Fox sounds like a fun - and yes, super ‘80s - romp of a comic. And haha, I don’t mean to make you question your memories of XXX! I just know that I tried to get into it multiple times, but I never could… Something about the writing just didn’t click for me. Who knows, maybe I’d love it now. I’ll give it another chance one day. - Steven

[@allanmcpherson9584]

​@ComicsRotYourBrain I actually was about to suggest Ginger Fox!

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

@@allanmcpherson9584 Haha, awesome! We’ll count that as two votes for GINGER FOX! - Steven

[@byronschexnayder875]

YAAAASSSSSS LOVE GRENDEL AND MATT WAGNER CHRIS AND STEVE, YOU GUYS CONTINUE TO ROCK WITH CRYB

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Thank you for all the support! It’s much appreciated! - Steven

[@allanmcpherson9584]

Id love it if you guys took a look at Mr X or Deadworld!

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

MR. X is absolutely on our list! I am fascinated by that book and I’m pretty sure I have all the floppies at this point, after decades of picking it up whenever I saw it in a dollar bin lol. Such cool covers! And I never read DEADWORLD, but I remember seeing it around. Will add it to our list! Thanks for commenting! - Steven

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Dean Motter’s Mr X? Ha ha ha, I was just thinking about that Vertigon series he did with Michael Lark. Be curious to revisit Mr X… - Chris

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

TERMINAL CITY! That was such a cool looking book - early Michael Lark! - Steven

[@terribled]

R.I.P. Bernie.

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Bernie Mireault was such a terrific and highly unique artist, may he rest in peace. I love his work. We have an episode coming on THE JAM in the near future. - Steven

[@RarebitFiends]

@@terribled oh no, I didn't know we lost him, and in the manner he went. This is horrible. I love his work so much, The Jam is one of my favorite comics ever.

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

@@RarebitFiendsThe news about Bernie was so devastating. And yeah, THE JAM is amazing. I’m looking forward to revisiting it soon, although I know it’ll be bittersweet. - Steven

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

😞 tragic.

[@RarebitFiends]

22:30 You're thinking of Patrick Nagel.

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Thank you, yes! 👍 - Steven

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Yes, indeed! Thanks for filling in the memory gap. - Chris

[@kasrasadrehashemi174]

Wait did you not do this last year?

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Yeah, we did, good catch! We’d just never been happy with the audio on the original version, so we decided to fix up the sound and repost the episode with a snazzy new thumbnail. Sorry if it gave you deja vu listening to it again, haha. All new episode coming next week! - Steven

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

You won’t believe what’s coming next! I can’t believe it! - Chris

[@sammcfarlane2494]

Is this a superhero series?

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

No, definitely not. But all the more interesting because of it! GRENDEL explores things that it would be very hard for your typical superhero comic to ever go near. - Steven

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

We WILL do some superhero books but more unique stabs, and only a few things from Marvel and DC. Unless the listeners have suggestions (we will take listener requests, as soon will be evident). - Chris

[@sammcfarlane2494]

@@ComicsRotYourBrain got any Indie superhero comics

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

@@sammcfarlane2494 We’ve talked about covering ELEMENTALS, but we’re not sure if we will. THE NEW STATESMEN was kinda an interesting WATCHMEN riff that was put out in the UK. And I personally want to cover some of the Archie RED CIRCLE superhero line from the ‘80s (including Alex Toth’s THE FOX). So, we’ll see! - Steven

[@sammcfarlane2494]

@@ComicsRotYourBrain is that a yes on the Indie superhero comics?

[@joeq.publicus3616]

Why do you guys keep saying that Argent is a criminal. He's a cop and Grendel is the criminal it's always been that way. Didn't you guys do any research?

[@allanmcpherson9584]

They were pretty clear that they weren't familiar with the Hunter Rose story.

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Thank you, Allan! Yeah, we tried to be upfront about that - Chris read DEVIL BY THE DEED decades ago, but it can be hard to remember every last detail when you’ve read thousands of comics inbetween lol. And for the record, regardless of what was said later, I did state that Hunter Rose was a “vigilante/crime boss” about one minute into the episode. Thanks for listening! - Steven

[@joeq.publicus3616]

@@ComicsRotYourBrain I really appreciate the response and love the show. I'm joining the Patreon.

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

@@joeq.publicus3616 That’s awesome. Great to hear and thank you for the support. - Steven

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

Ack! Yes, you’re right about Argent. I didn’t have good recall of Devil By The Deed (those Hunter Rose stories never appealed to me; I feel the Netflix show didn’t go because it was about Hunter not Christine, which would have been more unique). - Chris

[@jfrsnjhnsn]

OK, the white kid does not get Grendel at all. He is not “inspired by Beowulf”, for one thing. For another thing, Grendel is a phenomenon, not a spirit. The only characters who perceive Grendel as a spirit are mentally ill people. there was one story where you did hear the Grendel spirit’s voice, but I think that was just a fun experiment, as if we the reader were mentally ill. In all other stories, Grendel is just an inciting motivation. Also, Hunter Rose was the kingpin of crime. Argent worked with the police.

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

@@jfrsnjhnsn 😂 You edited your comment, but you’re still wrong about about nearly everything you wrote, including my skin color and age. Lol, better luck next time. - Steven

[@ComicsRotYourBrain]

I kinda recall reading in the lettercol for Grendel Tales, Matt Wagner pointing that Grendel was the manifestation of aggression that was initially transferred to the fork and mask. And he does talk about John Gardner’s Beowulf as inspiration - Chris