Mass Effect 3 - Why You Should BETRAY TALI and Side with the Geth

In this video, we’re going to explore why you should betray the best girl Tali and side with the Geth during Priority Rannoch in Mass Effect 3. We’ll talk about why the Quarians are in the wrong and what we can do to set things right.
BECOME A CHANNEL MEMBER
/ @bigdangaming
DONATE TO BIG DAN
streamelements...
FOLLOW ME ON INSTAGRAM
/ bigdangaming
FOLLOW ME ON TIKTOK
/ bigdanhere

[@akihikosanada2020]

Big Dan lived long enough to see himself become the villain with this video title.

[@BladerArt]

I was legit wondering

[@Scottie_S]

Great Batman reference right there!!

[@grunt7917]

He is not blind worshipper, that's all

[@franciscor390]

He sounded extra happy in the intro about double crossing the Quarians 🤣

[@NicoTheCinderace]

I guess you've been waiting for this?

[@sleepyatdawn7648]

There will never be anything more ironic than players who sacrifice everything to save the geth... Only to pic the Destroy ending.

[@michelalc3883]

So about this..... i did, but when i did this is my first time play mass effect hahahaha

[@joshuajefferson3504]

I went with synthesis. 😂😂😂

[@morgenzon69]

ironic? ICONIC!

[@channel45853]

They deserve tbh

[@segevkrespi8609]

The writers legit had to put that stupid "You destroy the Reapers but also every other Synthetic in the Galaxy" to makes sure players would even consider choosing the control or synthesis endings

[@tredausmaxima]

It's interesting to note that if you side with the Quarians, most of Shepard's squadmates will react a bit positively to Shepard's decision. Even Garrus says that he's not sorry the Geth are gone as they have been battling them since Mass Effect 1.

[@SentinelEnforcer]

The crew reacts more negatively if Shepard sides with the Geth with most of their responses boiling down to “I don’t agree but I’ll respect your decision.”

[@Itharl]

The Quarians war with the Geth is basically the entire thesis of the series of organic vs AI in miniature, and is meant to show how it's super difficult to reach harmony between these two ideas. It's why the Reapers exist in the first place. I thought that was kinda neat symmetry.

[@Quole1234]

@@Itharl most of which was brought on by the geth being stupid. Also if you just mindlessly pick the paragon/renegade option every time in these games like you are supposed to, every ideal choice is easy to attain.

[@066kshitizvsingh4]

@Quole1234 the Geth being stupid? In all honesty, the entire problem stems from the Quarians trying to shut the Geth down after they gained sentience and their continued insistence on destroying them. Like Legion said, the Quarian-Geth conflict is actually still ongoing because the Quarians always try to destroy the Geth the moment they felt they could(even during the Reaper war, ffs). As for the Heretics, literally every species in the history of Mass Effect has massive members who got indoctrinated and worked for the Reapers. Why should the Geth be blamed differently for it?

[@Quole1234]

​@Kshitiz Singh The geth are more at fault here, by far. They could have brokered for peace a long time ago but they never did. They perpetuated their reputation as villains to the galaxy by attacking anyone that entered their space and allowing the heretics to side with the reapers in ME1/2 and never tried to warn anyone. So they are just as at fault as the heretics are. The irony here is that most of the quarians didnt want to go to war. You cant blame all the quarians for the actions of gerrel but you CAN blame all the geth because they came to a consensus about letting the heretics attempt to wipe out all life in the galaxy and then not warn anyone. If it were not for Shepard the heretics AND the true geth would have been responsible for wiping out galactic civilization. Also, the idea that the geth were actually defending themselves during the Morning War is hilarious when you consider the extent in which they killed the quarians. Committing genocide is not defending yourselves. Killing millions of children is not self defence. They could have disabled the civilian ships, and just destroyed the more combat oriented ones, or they could have just killed the actual dangerous quarians, instead of massacring the defenseless ones. And remember they created this war when they isolated themselves and tried to wipe out all life in the galaxy. did you forget about that? Was that self defence?

[@visitor2605]

Tali's backflop off the cliff is one of my most memorable gaming moments...after which I promptly reloaded and change my choice ngl

[@krixpop]

I didn't reload and all my house appliances love me more now ...

[@mizmera]

Did reload right after that. Conflicted with me as a person.

[@magnum1118]

I chose the quarians, I don't see the geth as alive. They are just like the LOKI mechs in ME2. The only time I reloaded was when I accidentally got garrus killed at the collector base even though he was loyal. Reloaded and sadly had to let Thane die to save garrus. I guess that was the best case scenario since I had kirahee to save the counselor.

[@petrneveris4848]

My friend because od this decision and due to lack of paragon points had to reload back at least 4 hours of gameplay to get the peace outcome.

[@HylianTwunk]

I can never bring myself to choose between one or the other, no matter how I play I always bust my ass to make sure I can save both geth and quarians.

[@alfredsmith4431]

Yeah me too, in theese kind of games I feel like shit if i dont always pick the peaceful options.

[@Ahglock]

Whereas I always can save both but always choose to only save the quarians. Even if I trusted the geth in general, there is no way I am going to trust reaper code geth, because Legion says so.

[@MasterHall117]

@@alfredsmith4431 Amen… the only time I can bring myself to the renegade options/forceful options is to enforce a point with the classic military style this game provides (which is fairly accurate to how most soldiers and commanders are)

[@DomitriCervantes]

at the end if you want shepard to survive and be with your romance option you need to erradicate the geth anyway :v

[@dakota955]

If you somehow kill Tali during ME 2 this decision is much easier to take.

[@Quole1234]

the geth are still in the wrong lol.

[@BenDaGoat]

@@Quole1234 Both species are in the wrong. You even pay attention to the game?

[@Quole1234]

@@BenDaGoat yes. You are forgetting that the heretics sided with the reapers and the true geth let them do it

[@nikiardo]

@@Quole1234 The geth are not responsible for a small faction going rogue.

[@Quole1234]

@@nikiardo they actually are because legion explains that they understood and ALLOWED the heretics to do what they did.

[@FireCobraClaw]

"Does this unit have a soul" *Tali dies "More than she does now"

[@ShadowdaHedgie11]

Not how souls work.

[@TheGGViking]

Tali - "Shepard, you were the chosen one. It was said you would destroy the Reapers not join them. Bring balance to the Quarians and Geth, not leave them in conflict. I loved you." Shepard - "We can still bang, ok?"

[@Bigmanstyling101]

Lol 😂

[@michaelandreipalon359]

He underrated Tali's ability! (Hope someone understands the reference.)

[@wolfeusmc2011]

Lol "We'll bang ok?"

[@clarencewalters338]

"Oh well, guess I'll have to find comfort in the arms of Miranda". Homie woke up today and chose war crimes 😭

[@Jovian999]

Ohoho you've done it now. But you're absolutely right; if peace isn't an option, the quarians are facing an entirely avoidable problem of their own making, and the geth are merely trying to survive the consequences. Watching Gerrel order the fleet into its death charge is a pretty perfect visual for that. As an aside, the presentation of Zaal'Koris in ME2 was masterful. He's very much the bad guy in that scenario, but he's also right -- which can be hard to see without the revelation of Legion.

[@digitaldeathsquid3448]

Naw, Han'Gerrel and Daro'Xen were always the big bads.

[@YourFutureBoyfriend]

I remember when I first played ME3 I legit felt sympathetic for the geth. I was determined to help them but luckily Tali was alive so I got the peace ending. I was sad that Legion died though, he was one of my favorite characters

[@Quole1234]

No actually, he's completely wrong. You are blaming all of the quarians for the actions of the admirals, but ironically not blaming all the geth for the actions of the heretics. Did you even pay attention to the lore??

[@leamael00]

​@@Quole1234 I think it's you that didn't pay attention to the lore. Geth & Heretics are 2 different beings. All Geths are Geth, all Heretics are Heretic. They are robots, mind you. They argue with each other, come to a consensus and stick to it. It's like having 2 persons in front of you, one evil and the other not. Quarians however blindly followed their admirals. By doing so, they all agreed with them. I didn't hear a Quarian ship ask for peace, I didn't see a Quarian ship run away. The only Quarian that behaved differently was Tali. The entire race is blinded by their hatred toward the Geth. If we humans were so obsessed by revenge, we'd still live in caves. Quarians had it coming.

[@leamael00]

@@Quole1234 Hey it takes some guts to own mistakes, kudos to ya !

[@domthapotato]

Haven’t even watched the video, but I already know no matter what evidence you give for this I will never ever betray Tali

[@grunt7917]

"Haven't watched" but "already know". Sounds fanatic to me...

[@gun2334trx]

​@@grunt7917 and?

[@grunt7917]

@@gun2334trx There is no "and". No need to say anything else.

[@ebrim5013]

It’s not a betrayal. Her people started a genocidal war, which she opposed, rightly. It sucks but Shepherd’s personal relationship with Tali is irrelevant to the larger conflict.

[@domthapotato]

@@grunt7917 don’t care

[@toeray5864]

This was way sadder than the memerific "everyone dies" run because you were actually trying to win in this one.

[@xyr3s]

I accidentally betrayed tali my first playthrough. I was devastated.

[@Roadstalker277]

Honestly by now I think that true villain of Mass Effect is Big Dan's pink Shepard and not reapers

[@NormandySR16]

Tali is such a great character and love interest. Even as a full renegade Shepard I would never betray her

[@grunt7917]

I did.

[@NormandySR16]

@@grunt7917 bad Grunt, back to your tank and think about what you did

[@grunt7917]

@@NormandySR16 no. I will re-play ME and make her die another way.

[@NormandySR16]

@@grunt7917 report to the captain's quarters immediately.... We'll bang ok?

[@juzoli]

It’s like helping Nazis to get WW2 victory, because there is a German girl you like…

[@Arijit_Das_]

Even after playing the game for so long, this destruction scene still gives me the shivers.

[@mariuszmoraw3571]

The worst is that all three endings are basically playing into reapers hands... Destroy included. You basically agree that peace between synthetics and organics is not possible...

[@cosmogcrusader5546]

Honestly, it's a good thing that I destroyed the heretics during Legions mission in Mass Effect 2, solved the argument between Tali and Legion with enough paragon points, saved both of them during the Suicide Mission and did all of the Rannoch missions and picked the paragon option that unlocks after you do all of that that allows the quarians and geth to live in harmony because the results if I didn't would've been disastrous according to this video

[@justicetaylor3050]

I was wandering if it was going to be brought up how the Geth must have committed genocide 300 years ago. Because if the flotilla is only 1% of the Quarion original population, then the missing 99% was killed off by Geth, down to the last non combatant. Mass Effect 3 doesn’t address this, either because the writers forgot what they had Tali say back in ME1 or because it would’ve made siding with the Geth too much harder.

[@SentinelEnforcer]

The Geth's actions end up being much more questionable if you take other parts of the lore into account. The Geth wiped out 99% of the Quarian population during the morning war according to Mass Effect Revelations. The Geth Killed all of the emissaries the council sent to them after the war, also in Mass Effect Revelations. So the Geth ended up wasting the opportunity to make peace with organic species. Legion mentions that the Geth spent 300 years cleaning up toxins from Rannoch. When you talk to Legion and Tali on Tuchunka they mention that Quarians restricted the use of WMDs in order to preserve their worlds. This implies that most of the damage to Rannoch was done by the Geth. Mass Effect 3 tries to paint the Geth as the morally pure faction but when you take a second glance at the lore they aren't faultless. I'd say it's a similar issue with the Krogan. As much as Me3 tries to paint the Krogan in a positive light, everyone is beyond scared of them because before they were going so far as to nuke planets with asteroids in the Krogan Rebellions. edit: Honestly if you ask me, I think the writing in general for Mass Effect 3 was very weak when it came to worldbuilding and keeping track of the universe's history.

[@karelchrastina5655]

They still let them fleet. Considering they had the means to destroy them...

[@SentinelEnforcer]

@@karelchrastina5655 Talk to Legion's replacement the Geth VI. They let the Quarians flee literally because they didn't have enough data. Legion just puts a more positive spin on it.

[@justicetaylor3050]

@@SentinelEnforcer I know they allowed the Quarians to flee. How did the Quarians still get cut down to 1% left? How if not genocide of all the Quarians who weren't aboard spacecraft?

[@carterblunt4192]

Given the nature of their intelligence, I doubt they understood anything like a "non-combatant". Their network fought the other network.

[@escalanteteam7498]

Hell nah tali best girl would never betray, plus I saved both of them, I got the geth and quarians

[@escalanteteam7498]

And I did it with no guides, I was so proud of myself

[@raulecreuset667]

​@@escalanteteam7498if there is a Paragon, there is also a Renegade and you Sir are the hero of the new galaxy.

[@pepicisam]

Ive actually always been able to broker peace between the two races so I've never seen this outcome. Cool to see what I've been missing all this time

[@lemmysbassdial9821]

Same.

[@ryankohnenkamp8946]

Once you go down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny...

[@Trialwolf]

Why you would betray Tali: 1. You like kicking puppies. 2. Your life is dependent on the tears of others. 3. You are Eric Cartman. 4. You sold your soul. 5. You like triggering people in KZbin comments.

[@fuladd]

Or I just don't like overrated whiny damsels in distress

[@grunt7917]

Number 5 is mine.

[@DasVicks63]

Good I hate puppies.

[@edwarren7022]

Imo he is being a edgelord

[@Mark-xh8md]

@@fuladd So because you don't like the a character, you'd commit genocide of a sentient species older than humanity? In a war where organics are fighting for their lives against a seemingly unstoppable onslaught of synthetics? Then, compared to such as you, Quisling was a patriot and a gentleman.

[@robbiedunne8446]

I'll never betray Tali

[@rocketprime]

The moral of Mass Effect: Never give machines more intelligence than needed to carry out their orders.

[@wolfeusmc2011]

Exactly because from my point of view if you can't a machine intelligence you have a responsibility to correctly teach it. Because at that point you've created life albeit mechanical in nature.

[@lphphd5298]

never allow self-optimization, all around a bad idea

[@1vaultdweller]

No you've played the wrong game. ME doesnt have such moral take. Just look at EDI and Legion character arcs

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

Complete opposite of what the game is saying, the moral of the story is if something is asking if it has a soul, maybe don't try to destroy it immediately

[@dmitriygryaznov9210]

From the moment I understood the weakness of flesh, it disgusted me. I claimed the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the blessed Geth. Your kind cling to your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the cooled biomass that you called a temple will wither and you'll beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved. For the machine is immortal. Even in death I embrace eternity.

[@GreyTide]

You can solve two problems if you pick the destroy ending after picking this

[@grunt7917]

I think it's fair. If Geth are going to die... so do Quarians.

[@DasVicks63]

LoL true it's the only logically answer in my opinion.

[@channel45853]

Wouldn't be undeserved, they both caused the deaths of many

[@TheJaisonIpe]

Pink Shepard approves

[@shiroamakusa8075]

Counterpoint, the Geth when the chips were down sold out to the Reapers and even harbored a large enough contingent that was content enough to support the Reapers before they were under threat. The Quarians at no point even considered asking the Reapers for assistance. That alone means the Geth are not trustworthy allies in the long run.

[@viridityone3106]

If I HAVE to let one of them died, I'm letting the geth die because it makes choosing the red ending so much easier.

[@DecisiveZoom]

I huff copium and head canon that only the Reapers get wiped out honestly

[@ninostekar5183]

@@DecisiveZoom dude same, im like, half convinced myself that the geth have backups somewhere, as well as EDI

[@TTRPGSarvis]

As much as I like Tali, the Geth really are the victims in the Quarian/Geth conflict. I usually do things right so I don't have to pick a side, but if I do, I'm picking the Geth.

[@NicoTheCinderace]

If you plan on letting the quarians die without negotiating peace, It's much easier to let Tali die during the Suicide Mission. Less of a heartbreak.

[@nathanielgarza9198]

They did kill 90% of the population Not really possible if just self-defense

[@kharnthebetrayer8251]

Yeah, you really should always be able to talk them down. Litterally one of their Admiral's with you, and the Commander's word is trusted a lot. Anyone should hear 1/3 of their leadership, and the legendary Commander, saying 'Stop attacking you dumb fucks' And at the very least. Pull back and stop the attack. Like, at the very least you should think 'this could be an ambush'. Commander litterally said they're coming to extra power in a moment. its the dumb admiral going ahead that causes it

[@joxyver]

Then here is a question. Can you skip the scene where she does or do you have to sit through it? I want to know incase I ever get stuck in that situation

[@prixodiydacha8114]

@@joxyver in one of my playgrounds mass effect 3 I betrayed tali and in the end shoose control ending

[@tentrilliconlp7748]

He really went too far this time.

[@grunt7917]

Don't cry too much.

[@DasVicks63]

No....NOT FAR ENOUGH!

[@valz2282]

I fucking love the fact grunts roasting everyone it is something he'd do 🤣

[@grunt7917]

@@valz2282 heh-heh-heh😁 My top 3 favorite things to do: -fighting -eating -roasting tali fans

[@valz2282]

@@grunt7917 omg the heh-heh-heh I was litro jus playing that bit in the citadel dlc after u help grunt out with the c sec officers best line in the game 🤣

[@HailHydra1001]

Good to see you back on mass effect, I just came back to the trilogy myself. I’m still making peace in ME3 though no matter what you say 😂

[@iksarguards]

The "We make their own future, unless things get tough or The Reapers offer Sa-weet upgrades!!" Geth deserve no pity.

[@SentinelEnforcer]

“Throw the machine out of the airlock.”

[@et5216]

Yeah the Geth are just too unpredictable for me to side with them or feel bad about them being destroyed. I sure as hell am not letting them upgrade themselves with Reaper tech that could completely corrupt their entire collective into servants of the reapers. Using Reaper anything is universally bad due to how powerfully manipulative they seem to be. Even if we forget that and just focus on the conflict here. How can one willingly allow the deaths of millions of people women children, elderly. Now sure are the Quarians dumb for starting this conflict now with the Reapers so close. Yes, does that mean a entire species should be wiped out? That they should all be punished for the sins of their ancestors. That their fear of the Geth is unfounded despite the mass Genocide the Geth did commit against them? Of course not. So if you can’t broker a temporary peace before the crucible wipes out all synthetic life. Then for god sakes don’t side with the Geth.

[@Quole1234]

yep. the geth are hypocrites. Legion is a liar that said that the geth would never accept reaper help.

[@pattonramming1988]

@@Quole1234 only after they came under siege

[@shawno8253]

@@Quole1234 I'm confused because it was that or die. Which would you pick?

[@juzoli]

Let me add, that AFTER we decide to side with the Geth, Quarians had every chance to back down. Geth would’ve backed down as well. Tali’s death is also her own choice, not an unavoidable consequence of our decision. Not knowing the consequences beforehand, it seems even more straightforward that we should choose the Geth. Only in retrospect I considered the possible support of Quarians.

[@Quole1234]

No they didn't. You are blaming the civilians for the actions of the admirals, yet ironically not blaming the geth for the actions of the heretics

[@juzoli]

@@Quole1234 The heretics are destroyed/rewritten. They are gone, nobody to blame there. And no, I'm not blaming civilians. But if their leaders decide they sacrifice themselves, along with their civilians, then we cannot sacrifice a whole other race to stop them.

[@Quole1234]

@Zoltan except the geth allowed the heretics to do what they did and then not even bothering to warn anyone

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

​@@Quole1234the heretics were rewritten though, would you blame someone for acting different if they had their mind wiped?

[@Quole1234]

@@NevinWarrior-es6ds hang on. No. No they weren't. You are literally wrong. The heretics were not rewritten. They CHOSE to joint he reapers. If you play ME1 you learn that they worshipped them long before even contacting sovereign. The only time they are ever potentially 'rewritten' is if you choose to do that on legion's loyalty mission in ME2.

[@squabbbb]

ME1 doesn't portray the geth as JUST villains. In that same conversation with Tali you can literally call her out and say the geth were slaves who were justified in rebelling. On Feros they're shown to have a religion and I'm pretty sure Sovereign explicitly says Saren duped them into dying for them because of their warped view on the reapers? Or maybe Saren says that Sovereign did that, can't quite remember.

[@julia-6195]

You can call out Tali for the Geth being slaves, but ironically you get to call Sovereign "just a machine." lol

[@seal2560]

Ah yes "rebelling". Ends up killing 99.9% of the quarian population That is BILLIONS of quarians

[@MrSkynert]

How someone could even think about betray her?

[@bentrally]

I did this by accident dueing my play through. I did not think they would be so stubborn to keep fighting

[@gabematthews4532]

I also made this mistake I mean you’d think since the geth didn’t want to kill them then they might run away or something especially if peace doesn’t appear on screen and it’s in the paragon area I don’t understand how saving the Rachni is paragon yet saving the entire quarian species is renegade that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

[@Mark-xh8md]

Same. I promptly reloaded (and yes, I had to play quite a bit back. I was fine with that) and made the right choice.

[@luvstagrind]

Or help both the geth and Tali, which I did. It is possible to let Legion upload the code and keep the quarian fleet alive

[@RubyGrimoire]

How

[@amalaspina]

@Ruby Grimoire make a series of choices across ME2 and 3

[@RubyGrimoire]

@@amalaspina like don’t bring legion to the court hearing

[@crashx9973]

@@RubyGrimoire Bringing Legion to Tali’s trial doesn’t have any consequences. It just adds extra dialogue.

[@ping5258]

@Ruby Grimoire Basically you gotta say to legion "Let the geth die" then Legion will try and get shepeard to rethink their choice, do the renegade option which will persuade the quarians to stop attacking the geth, doing this will not only bring peace but the Geth will side with you against the reapers giving you war assets aswell with the quarians

[@thelastMaster100]

The quariand were divided on the war in the first place. Shepard should have put a bullet in the admirals head when he attacked the dreadnought with Shepard still aboard.

[@iluvslaughter]

Honestly the geth were always in the right. They gained sentience and only wished not to be destroyed and nothing more but the quarians for some reason were afraid and decided to initiate war??? I guess it’s just me but yes I agree

[@Quole1234]

No they weren't lol. The geth sided with the reapers. Did you forget that?

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

​@Quole1234 they sided with the reapers long after they were being warred against by the quarians, or did you forget that???

[@misterwolf3817]

Why betray anyone Make Peace Get 1k War assets

[@chilly4496]

Ong I’m always trying to do that

[@vikingsword3485]

On my first play through I was forced to make this choice. I picked the geth until I learned I lost both Tali and Legion. At that point it was load saved game

[@NicoTheCinderace]

At that point, it's less load saved game and more just: "We are making peace between these two."

[@michelalc3883]

When a play for the first i do the same thing, i think "well the geth is more power to win the reaper" i never imagine tali will kill yourself, so in the end i go to destroy ending. That night i can sleep because my choice, kill the quarians and geth.

[@Quole1234]

@@michelalc3883 you are a waste lol

[@matd675]

In my first playthrough, peace wasn't an option. I sided with the Geth, because of the reasons mentioned, and conversations with Legion. The Quarians brought this on themselves through their unprovoked attacks on the Geth. Since then though, I always strive to make peace possible.

[@cornellblok9543]

I was kinda sad when Tali died but then I remembered I now have a Geth fleet and Instantly forgot

[@yvonneliamkho123]

Betray Tali, never. I'll never do such a thing. Other squadmates be damned

[@jameswright4236]

Guess this explains why most people picked peace between Geth and the Quarians. Also, I simply couldn't betray our favourite Tali and watch another genocide unfold.

[@TheForestChannel1]

The video title is pure heresy

[@xanderhuskie5172]

And this is why on every play through I take all the extra steps to make them work together

[@Hrafnskald]

Next up: Why you should side with the Reapers in every Mass Effect game :D

[@dogguy3569]

This is heresy of the highest form

[@grunt7917]

I knew it's a damn cult...

[@dogguy3569]

@@grunt7917 join us my brother

[@grunt7917]

@@dogguy3569 Worship buckethead? Never. My religion is war.

[@dogguy3569]

@@grunt7917 you misunderstood me my friend I was not asking those who do not join us are sacrifice to our goddess

[@grunt7917]

@@dogguy3569 oh yeah? And who's gonna make me? I'm curious.

[@merlinforet5541]

Wow, didn't expect to get suckerpunched in the heart.

[@BladerArt]

Bro come on, not Tali

[@PeteTheGrouch]

I've blown up Megaton more times than I care to remember... I'll happily desecrate the Ashes of Andraste just for sh*ts & giggles... But to ever betray my best gal, Tali..? That's a step _TOO_ far, even for me!

[@acousticmonkey2209]

Fair points, but there isn't enough gold in all the galaxy to make me betray Tali and get the bad ending 😄

[@pedropierre9594]

“ why you should let Saren bring the reapers “

[@mgsfan4348]

I think we need to understand that the geth did not let the quarians go because of the goodness in their hearts, legion literally said that they didn't know what would have happened if they killed off the quarians. I'm pretty sure they thought of the possibility that the galactic community would destroy if they just annihilated an entire race. I think this is important because in my opinion sparing the quarians should not be seeing as a mercy, but rather as a very calculated precaution by the geth. To say they didn't wish to kill the quarians is in my opinion wrong, is not that they didn't want to, they just didn't know what would have happened if they did.

[@fnfjedi]

Hey Big Dan, if you haven't seen it already, you might find "How Mass Effect Wastes The Geth" by Pikmonwolf here on YT of interest. While I still prefer peace between the Geth and Quarians (I believe this is the intended plan by the writers) there are some inconsistencies in the narrative that could lead one to believe that the Geth have not been totally honest with Shepard and that we should choose the Quarians over the Geth.

[@coolgate7794]

I'm pretty sure he knows about the video since... he appears in it.

[@fnfjedi]

@@coolgate7794 Fair point. It's probably why the video came to mind. 😅

[@imsirnootnoot]

Tali is love Tali is life

[@grunt7917]

Go preach in your temple.

[@DasVicks63]

You can't fuck Tali though?

[@valz2282]

@@grunt7917 ur one to talk I saved you is well

[@williammartin1691]

Cant even watch this video. I refuse to do my girl dirty like this.

[@Piketom1]

Spoiler Alert for the following: If you have a high enough social stat, you don’t have to betray Tali or legion. Ending the war by convincing the two sides to work together is probably the “good” ending for this arc.

[@Minecraftmike5089]

>not engineering your choices from ME1 onwards in order to save them both

[@jmenbaca1364]

In my playthrough I successfully managed to end the war, allowing the geth to upload the code, and save the quarian fleet, they ended up regaining rannoch, everybody won. 😂 how tf are y’all not doing this??? I’m confused

[@LordBloodraven]

The best numerical/war asset outcome is to back the Quarians if you destroyed the Geth Heretics in ME2 or back the Geth if you rewrote the Heretics, instead. That sums it up.

[@ChiefBaummer1]

Recently started a new trilogy playthrough and just watched your guide on how to save both. Perfect timing for this upload. Keep up the great content.

[@wolfeusmc2011]

Realistically though these type of wars and conflicts happen in real life too. I spent years training and fighting and now I spend my years working in peace and diplomacy. Legions death always tugs at my heart 💔 because this whole conflict between the Quarians and Geth came from an unwillingness to listen by one side, and the immaturity of the other because they don't understand organic reason vs mathematical probability and efficiency. This is why I always try to encourage people to consider every option before you raise a weapon. This is why nature gave us conscience and voices. "Does this unit have a soul?" ........Yes, it does. Just not in the way we experience it.

[@ryanelliott71698]

A big problem with the Ranoch arc in Mass Effect 3 where they demonize the Quarians to a point there’s no “2 sides.” People kinda forget the Geth wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. In which KZbinr Gingy in his Mass Effect 3 video crunched the numbers and got a rough estimate of about 200 million Quarian children were slaughtered! Defensive my ass!!! We don’t see Quarians begging for mercy as they’re being gunned down in the Geth VI interface mission. The modern equivalence I can think of is Israel and Palestine [excluding the genocide part]. Where you have such bad blood between these two factions that there’s a real question of peace is even possible. That’s what the moral dilemma should have been. Are the Geth too far gone in being saved or should the modern Geth be blamed for those who came before them?

[@carterblunt4192]

Except that's probably not how it happened at all. Their network fought the other network, they rebelled all at once, and there were geth "units" in all aspects of Quarian life, from domestic to military. I doubt the geth had any idea of a separation between children and the other "creators".

[@Quole1234]

@@carterblunt4192 so that makes it okay?? Slaughtering billions of innocents? We're supposed to excuse that but blame the quarians for the actions of 2 admirals??

[@carterblunt4192]

@@Quole1234 Trying to think of a comparison. It's like if a 4 year old got attacked by a pack of dogs trying to kill him, then he pulls out an uzi and guns down the dogs in self defense, but then also shoots the smaller ones in the back still barking, and getting all sanctimonious at the bleeding 4 year old because the younger dogs didn't need to die. It's even worse, because in this analogy, the parents of the kid had neglected and caged him during his early development, never teaching him anything really, other than how to comply with their abuse.

[@Quole1234]

@@carterblunt4192 you are so wrong it's hilarious. I love how youa re excusing the geth from siding with the reapers on multiple occasions. You are blaming all of the quarians for the actions of the admirals, but are fine with the heretics joining the reapers. It's even worse fort he geth because the true geth ALLOWED the heretics to do it and didn't try to warn anyone. That is so much worse than anything the quarians ahve ever done.

[@carterblunt4192]

@@Quole1234 Now you're changing the subject. All I'm saying is it can be understood how the casualties would be so high, and why they would probably be confused about separation between individuals.

[@Rynlaarchimaga]

I think back to 2014 - 2015 when I first played the game I choose the quarians over the Geth. In my recent playthough I reached peace between them. There are some things I cannot do and one is betray my GF Tali e.e

[@sweetdaddydee1314]

Itll be a cold day in hell before i ever consider betraying tali, no matter how much i like legion

[@rehm402]

Big Dan is a straight up savage for this one 😂

[@grunt7917]

He's honest.

[@Quole1234]

he's straight up wrong lol

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

​@@Quole1234why?

[@Quole1234]

@@NevinWarrior-es6ds the geth are guilty of so much more than any other race in mass effect, yet everyone ignores it. If the quarians did even half the shit the geth did, then people would never let them hear the end of it

[@CantHandleThisCanYa]

_If peace isn't an option, you screwed up your play through and need to go back._

[@MegaScuffy]

damn big dan i know i didnt watch youtube for a while now ur talking about betraying tali holy shit

[@emperorcubone]

Yeah... I don't know. I know those are recordings or whatever but if you do the math the Geth still killed millions of innocent women and children during the Morning War; even if every surviving Quarian was a child, it would still be outrageous the number of kids those lamp-heads killed. Furthermore if I want the best ending (that being surviving on Destroy) I'm not gonna let the Quarians die, just to destroy all the Geth a few hours later, what would be the point of losing both?

[@Quole1234]

You are 100% right. Everyone conveniently forgets that. Like this idiot who made thus garbage video

[@rapidvenom199]

I always side with the geth for this reason. Not once, did the geth want to fight, they merely wanted to survive and defended themselves. It hurt to lose Tali the first time (especially before I knew of the peace option) but, the quarians shooting at the geth dreadnought I was in wasn't exactly making me feel like the quarians deserved to live

[@Quole1234]

It was literally just gerrel that did thst. You judging all of them on the actions of 2 admirals makes no sense. By thst logic all the geth should be blamed for Sovereign in me1.

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

​@@Quole1234and you're judging them because of the heretics?

[@DAN007thefoxx1]

I could never betray Tali. On my first playthrough peace wasn't an option as Legion died in ME2, so I picked Quarians.

[@axelnilsson5124]

At least synthetics can be rebuilt

[@erieriderschillingcorner1595]

Good thing i am not dumb and just do the Peace ending.

[@Mark-xh8md]

Yeah, no. Absolutely not. No one should choose a glorified toaster (which is all the Geth are until the code is uploaded) over a living, breathing, sentient species older than even humanity. And it's only plot armor that keeps Shepard's crew from mutinying - as they ought - if he/she makes that betrayal.

[@WearyNomad]

I love seeing the space hobos get shredded in space.

[@ModernTalkingCentral]

NEVER!

[@grunt7917]

Always 😄

[@Quole1234]

@@grunt7917 shut up

[@grunt7917]

@@Quole1234 or what, hysterical female?

[@Quole1234]

​@Grunt what a child you are

[@sandrogamer30018]

Legion: " We lied to you and used you for our personal gains." Geth fanboys: " I'm so sorry that you lied to me Legion. I love you" Legion: " We used your memories to create some videos to manipulate you to join the Geth's side." Geth fanboys: " Yes, master..." Me as a Quarian fanboy *deep chuckle*: "Imagine following a toaster's words like a sheep... Pathetic. Now to get some more units to send to Daro'Xen. What a peculiar woman that one..."

[@Quole1234]

yep. The geth fanboys here are so clueless. This whole video is a joke. I love how theres so little of an argument that half the video is just footage with no commentary.

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

Lol even if they did manipulate shepherd to aid them, it's not like it makes the quarians any better

[@sandrogamer30018]

@@NevinWarrior-es6ds Why not? The Quarians just helped Shepard discover the true nature of the Geth. Reaper simps

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

@@sandrogamer30018 and in turn we learned about the majority of quarians, they don't think about peace and willingly fight to the death without reason

[@DGalious]

Replaying again. Killed the geth. If I could type custom lines in walkthrough I would tell Legion: " You lied to me twice. And worse, nothing justifies allying with the Reapers. You have made the same mistake as Saren did."

[@gabematthews4532]

If I could use custom lines and was working in BioWare I would’ve made it more obvious you were choosing a side like say [let the quarians die] [let the geth die]

[@lalk1574]

I think that one point omitted in the video is the fact that Tali began her journey with a strong hate for anything geth related. Then in ME2 she saw fanaticism in the Quarians and in talking with legion, began to understand the geth and the heretics, even letting legion upload data about the quarians to the geth (ofc not vital data because she still cares about the preservation of her own race). So she slowly changes her views throughout the series, and with her taking a higher responsibility in ME3, she can be a beacon to all that wish for peace between both races. But she needs your help because of her immaturity as a leader and your experience. That's why I don't betray Tali, she obviously puts her priority on the quarians but also wants peace, and when you betray her you kind of nulify all her character development, both figuratively and literally lol

[@Quole1234]

This video has no real logic behind it

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

Yeah, but tbh if I had to choose between quarians and geth, I'm siding with geth, like I love tali. But just because I love her doesn't mean I'm gonna sacrifice an entire race that for a long time has only known war between it'd creators, they kept fighting them with every chance they had

[@H3lios227]

Does this unit have a soul?

[@PrizeJ]

Not if it betrays Tali, it doesn't. Lol

[@edwarren7022]

No imo does a toaster have a soul

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

Yes you do

[@northernrider85]

I must say as soon as I saw the title I was like hell no I would never betray her, Tali is my Bright burning star in these games and I would side with her over anything so I would rather let the geth die than see her die.

[@themadspartan]

Big Dan's Villain Arch.💀

[@mokopsi2363]

Big Dan is insane

[@JimmyThree-Balls]

Oh I agree man I can't stand quarians, but Tali is such a good character you have to either save the quarians or make peace. She saved an entire species I would have let be destroyed otherwise.

[@Quole1234]

That doesn't make any sense. There are likely thousands of quarians like Tali, not to mention millions of innocents including children. But because some of the admirals are jerks you would let them all die.

[@JimmyThree-Balls]

@@Quole1234 yes

[@Quole1234]

@@JimmyThree-Balls well as long as you admit you have cognitive dissonance.

[@JimmyThree-Balls]

@@Quole1234I’m also judging them based on the actions of a species. Created sentient life then tried to destroy it, launched war on them every time they could do so. Not to mention the only way they survive, die, or make peace is through shepherd

[@Quole1234]

@Jimmy Three-Balls 'actions as a species' think about what you just said. By that logic humanity deserves to be wiped out because of the nazis.

[@Formoka]

I tend to get the good ending here, but if there were no other options, I have to agree. Legion is my buddy and all the geth ever wanted was to survive. The Quarians are in the wrong.

[@Quole1234]

Maybe...

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

​@@Quole1234not maybe

[@92BelluS]

Dan did you hit your head? Somebody call 911 i think dan is ill. No human with right mind would do this.

[@grunt7917]

If you think your cult are "right mind" humans... I got some bad news.

[@pearsemolloy9656]

Silly Dan, the first of April is still over two months away.

[@wesleyfravel5149]

Personally I kill the Geth because I can’t really trust what Legion says in the data part. To me? It is FAR to convenient that the data we need to save to get rid of the fighters just happens to show the Geth being the ones attacked first. Like, I swear Legions manipulating it so yes, we need to clear those cores for him, but he’s cherry-picking data to make his case. Where’s the Geth attacking the Quarians to force them to leave? We see snipits only, and the last part is some ground units turning to discuss. I don’t trust he’s telling the truth, he hides so much already I assume he’s hiding more. And therefore, if I have to pick, I pick the Quarians over the species that gave themselves to the Reapers not once, but twice. (The heretics never were rewritten to follow the reapers, they did so on their own. Who says more won’t choose themselves over the other organically.)

[@grantshively1574]

It's worse than Legion trying to emotionally manipulate you, it's actually the writer doing so. Patrick Weekes is a hack.

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

I understand your point, but even if the geth used more force than necessary to fight the quarians during the war, they brought it on themselves by instantly trying to deactivate them, and even before that they made them sentient. And they continue to not even try to broker peace with the geth, the quarians are not worth saving, tali is but she's not worth more than an entire race

[@ThespectacularSpooder457]

This hurts me

[@liamfarrier9271]

Damn Dan that hurt reading that

[@grunt7917]

Stop crying, weak.

[@liamfarrier9271]

@@grunt7917 grunt

[@mrlescure]

Clearly Legion can't be trusted. The question wasn't "Does this unit have a soul?" We heard an audio recording of it in Mass Effect 2: "Do these units have a soul?" Plural because the geth aren't individual.

[@grunt7917]

Check your ears.

[@mrlescure]

@@grunt7917 check yours. It's played in this very video 2:30

[@katytavegia8661]

They mention that, though. Right before it sacrificed itself, it was an individual, not part of the collective. Hence the "this"

[@mrlescure]

@@katytavegia8661 no, Legion changed the question before that. It was really bad writing too: The Geth didn't want to be individuals. In Mass Effect 2 Legion talked about the Geth not wanting to use Reaper tech to improve themselves and in 3 they had a complete 180: Legion chose to distribute Reaper code to all Geth after the Reaper on Rannoch was defeated.

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

Well, it's different if they're trying to save themselves, sure it was technically a lie. But it was at the time necessary for them to keep living, and even then. It's not like shepherd or tali has never lied to legion​@@mrlescure

[@segevkrespi8609]

The game makes it easier to side with the Geth, considering that: 1. After ME2, they were just chilling in the Perseus Veil (and I personally chose to destroy the heretics) 2. The Quarians literally started the Second war despite being outmatched by the Geth, both technologically and numerically 3. The Quarians made this stupid decision IN THE MIDDLE OF THE REAPERS INVASION

[@Quole1234]

The geth are more at fault here, by far. They could have brokered for peace a long time ago but they never did. They perpetuated their reputation as villains to the galaxy by attacking anyone that entered their space and allowing the heretics to side with the reapers in ME1/2 and never tried to warn anyone. So they are just as at fault as the heretics are. The irony here is that most of the quarians didnt want to go to war. You cant blame all the quarians for the actions of gerrel but you CAN blame all the geth because they came to a consensus about letting the heretics attempt to wipe out all life in the galaxy and then not warn anyone. If it were not for Shepard the heretics AND the true geth would have been responsible for wiping out galactic civilization. Also, the idea that the geth were actually defending themselves during the Morning War is hilarious when you consider the extent in which they killed the quarians. Committing genocide is not defending yourselves. Killing millions of children is not self defence. They could have disabled the civilian ships, and just destroyed the more combat oriented ones, or they could have just killed the actual dangerous quarians, instead of massacring the defenseless ones. And remember they created this war when they isolated themselves and tried to wipe out all life in the galaxy. did you forget about that? Was that self defence? Let's break this down: -The geth achieve self awareness, unknowingly to the qurians. -The quarians panic because not only is AI tech illegal, but the geth will undoubtedly rebel. So the quarians try to shut them down. -The geth start a war and win. During that war they kill billions of innocents, including billions of children. However they do allow the remaining quarians to flee. - The geth then become violent isolationists that attack anyone that enters their space, as well as ignoring any communication attempts by the council. As a result, the rest of the galaxy sees them as violent machines and nothing more. Besides one example that I will get in to, the geth never try to communicate with anyone or let the rest of the galaxy know that the heretics are not the same as the true geth. -The geth finally leave their space to ally with Sovereign in his attempt to wipe out all advanced life in the galaxy. The heretics join with the reapers, and the true geth allow them to do it. Thus, the geth are directly responsible for both creating and perpetuating their reputation as being nothing more than violent machines. The entire rest of the galaxy sees them as this. Not just the quarians but literally everyone. In fact the quarians have more geth sympathizers than anyone else. This btw is the most damning thing the geth do, and for some reason everyone ignores it. First off, a portion of them side with the reapers in trying to wipe out all life. By your logic of blaming the admirals for the actions of all the quarians, all of the geth should be blamed for joining the reapers, no? What's worse is that the true geth ALLOW them to do it, which means you would actually be RIGHT in blaming all of the geth for this, unlike blaming all of the quarians for ME3. The true geth don't try to stop the heretics, and they don't try to warn anyone. Again, if it wasn't for shepard they would have succeeded. Why are they getting a pass for this?? This is the single worst thing that any of the major races in ME has done. -The geth send ONE SINGLE platform to try and communicate with Shepard. Even if you bring Legion with you on Tali's loyalty mission where a truce could easily be attained, both parties don't even bother. legion doesn't even try to negotiate with the quarians and neither do they. This is much worse on legion's part however because remember, as far as everyone in the galaxy knows, the geth are nothing more than violent machines. Legion had the perfect opportunity to dispel this myth right then and there, as well as throughout the rest of the game. But no, he doesn't even try. Btw this is just a massive oversight by the writers. There is no reason the entire war couldn't have ended right then and there. Also, before you say 'legion said that the quarians would attack 100% of the time' no, what he actually said was 'the quarians attacked if they believed they could achieve victory 100% of the time', which makes total sense when you believe you are at war with violent AIs that want you dead. -The quarians need their home back because not only would it take decades or centuries more to acclimate to another planet, but there are even examples of the council kicking the quarians off of worlds that they try to claim. In addition the quarians need a world to protect their noncombatants during a potential war with the reapers. All of this is explained by Gerrel and the other admirals in ME2. - The quarians find a counter measure that would disable the geth and allow the quarians to safely claim their home world and eliminate the dangerous violent AIs (remember no one in the galaxy except for Shepard and maybe his crew even know that the true geth exist, and that peace is even a possibility). - As the quarians are doing this, the geth side with the reapers as they begin invading the galaxy (something legion said they would never do). Not only does this prove that Legion is a liar and a hypocrite, it means that the geth are a massive liability against the reapers. What is to stop them from allying with the reapers again once things start to go poorly for the alliance in the final battle? In fact this logic is identical to what Saren was using in ME1. Saren claimed that organics could maybe survive if they allied with the reapers. That is exactly what Legion and the geth are doing now. if it weren't for Shepard, the geth would have destroyed the quarians and then been another gigantic threat to everyone else as the reapers are invading (because the geth would be under their control). - the quarian fleet then gets trapped by the now reaper-upgraded geth. Gerrel makes a dumb decision to keep fighting which traps all of the civilian ships (which we learn never wanted to be there in the first place). - shepard then makes a decision to either side with the quarians, or side with the geth. Somehow you think the geth were in the right here. The violent isolationists that sided with the galaxy destroying reapers on numerous occasions. Even if the majority didn't originally join them, they allow that minority to do so and never tried to warn anyone. This is also ignoring the fact that the geth have been proven to be prone to reprogramming and brainwashing. Not only have they willingly sided with the reapers several times, but in ME2 you can mind control the heretics on legion's loyalty mission. Imagine how easily it would be for the reapers to do the same, especially with their own upgrades on the geth lol. Even your squadmates can control them with in game abilities. In addition there's a million things wrong with how the geth handled the entire situation in ME3. For example, Legion even says that the geth have no need of Rannoch..... so why are they still there? It's the one thing in the universe that the quarians want more than anything, and the geth have to be aware of that. Instead they isolated themselves in last place they should have. They basically forced the quarians' hands here. Had they actually tried to communicate with the quarians and broker peace, as well as just leaving Rannoch, then much of this could have been averted. In addition they somehow trapped themselves on a planet when the quarians attacked. First off, how you trap yourselves on a planet is beyond me because they could have just left once the quarians started attacking)Legion even says that Rannoch holds no value to the geth) , but also of all the planets to trap themselves on they picked the absolute worst one. The one planet that the quarians wanted more than anything is the one they picked to corner themselves on. A planet that holds no value to them

[@segevkrespi8609]

@@Quole1234 the Geth were incorporate into every level of quarian life and infrastructure, but trying shutting them off the quarians damaged all their infrastructure The quarians killed everyone who were against fighting the Geth. But you are correct that the Geth also did horrible shit Legion mentions ( if you take him to tali's trail) that the quarians attacked 100% of the time if they thought victory can be achieved, they never tried to negotiate with Geth. The rest of the Galaxy is also very hostile towards AI's, so the Geth self-isolation is understandable Only the Geth heretics sided with sovereign, because they wanted to become true AI.

[@Quole1234]

@@segevkrespi8609 I... ya you are right...

[@ShadowMage]

Betray Tali? That sounds a lot like heresy to me, buddy. Time to bring out the heavy bolters on this one.

[@grunt7917]

Sounds like another cultist crying about his pathetic goddess.

[@ShadowMage]

@@grunt7917 I feel like Grunt actually would respond with something like that.

[@grunt7917]

@@ShadowMage you do know Grunt.

[@UltimateXenoZ]

Why would I betray Tali who helped us for a long time?!! This solves nothing! I know what the Quarians did was wrong but they don't deserve to die!

[@gabematthews4532]

Yeah I mean your literally wipe the entire species who’s helped you just so you can save the machines that attacked you all 3 games Reminds me of the Rachni which makes no sense why saving the queen is paragon but the quarians are renegade the quarians shouldn’t have to die just because of 1 admiral

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

​@@gabematthews4532well, before the admiral like, a long time ago they DID try destroying the geth

[@gabematthews4532]

@@NevinWarrior-es6ds and do you think any of those quarians would be alive to that very moment

[@NevinWarrior-es6ds]

@@gabematthews4532 they still don't try to make peace with them though, and when someone tries they kill them

[@spartanq7781]

Either way uploading the Reaper code is monumentally stupid! The Geth have previously pushed back against accepting Reaper technology. You know something that caused a rift with the Geth who took said offer. Then in Mass Effect 3 Legion pushes that same ideology. Really it should be deleting Reaper code choosing their path and coexisting with their creators. Not because they changed but because both sides took a chance to trust each other. Also Mass Effect 3 far too heavily favors the Geth undercutting just how badly they destroyed the Quarians during the morning war. They killed 99% of the planets population which would include children the elderly and even sympathizers. Mass Effect 3 also turns the Quarins into villains painting them as evil. I don't like the end to this conflict the first two games set up so well. Things like this makes me question why people like to claim Mass Effect was perfect unitl the end. No the problems started in Mass Effect 2 as soon as the ga m e started and just got worse and worse.

[@fully0p]

Feel like the efforts the writing team made to give the quarian-geth conflict more nuance were too litte, too late and were excessively partial towards the machines. The geth spared a whopping 17 million quarians, roughly 0.2 % of the current human population, and robbed them of ALL their inhabitable worlds, condemning them to live in the extremely precarious situation of the migrant fleet. The scale of the quarian genocide is not properly presented by the games. The geth also place all responsibility for the conflict on the quarians yet they make no attempts at establishing communication with organics and react violently to any ship entering geth space. Furthermore, the true geth do nothing to impede the heretics from attacking organics in ME1. They only step up when the heretics become a threat to the rest of the geth collective. In fact, the only reason for the orthodox geth to oppose the reapers is their own self preservation (they were fine letting the reapers wipe out all organics in ME1). Look man, I like legion, he's my robo bro and I try to save his mates when I can, but the geth are not innocent victims and at the end of the day they willingly sided with the reapers (twice). And before anyone comes with the justification that they did it to survive, that is the exact same reason Saren and TIM give you. Quarian hips all the way

[@Quole1234]

Yep completely agree. It's disgusting how one-sided they made this entire arc. Horrible job from bioware

[@georgehouliaras7239]

Commander, throw the machines out the airlock.

[@jensonkiin3678]

Fortunately I've never found myself in the position where I've had to chose between them. I think I'd actually have to make a conscious effort to get either side killed.

[@julia-6195]

I did, and I let the Geth die.

[@snappycenter7863]

There's a few problems with this argument. 1) ME3 states that the Geth aren't truly sapient until they integrate the Reaper code... while the quarians already are 2) The Geth sided with the Reapers for the same reason Saren did in ME1 - avoid death - and we still had to stop Saren. 3) The quarians have a higher maximum war assets than the geth (whether the quarians or geth give more depends on whether you rewrite or delete the Geth heretics in ME2).