Master’s Teaches Abuse is Enduring Persecution

John Macarthur, Grace Community Church, and now The Master’s University and Seminary are in hot water due to their stances on biblical counselling regarding physical abuse in the home. The Roys Report has dropped yet another devastating article detailing the egregious teachings on physical abuse that thousands of upcoming pastors have taken into the ministry. This must stop.
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[@Underdogtheology]

Well this guy is so much worse than I thought. Before you defend JMac or Master’s please watch this. He blames a wife for a husband’s sexual abuse of their child. How many students listened and thought, “Yeah. That sounds right to me.” Where’s the outcry? twitter.com/solasisters/status/1512064840050769938?s=21&t=nVypI41MxEoxRSl0BoFC4A

[@barbarasimmons4158]

@@trkry1 and how long the damage will continue-current victims and victims of the future evil teaching

[@bobbischoen6341]

I am debating watching the whole lecture, but don't know if I can stomach it. I really appreciate your videos on this and you've gained a new subscriber, not that that really matters, but I want you to know you are appreciated. We need the Godly Men in the church to stand up to this and make it stop, us women really don't have a voice that will be listened to in these circles. Thank you for doing just that.

[@rettpanda6203]

Can we PLEASE!!!!! Shut the whole dang thing DOWN!!?!?!?!

[@jamesmonahan9408]

The blame is on the wife? the step father goes to the 4 yr old? Oh dear. This is absolutely disgusting.

[@rettpanda6203]

@@jamesmonahan9408yep. Disgusting

[@megmomster]

I’m so encouraged to see men speaking out like you did here. Bravo.

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks, Meg. We all should!

[@ItsNotMorgan]

I’ll second that!

[@noelenliva2670]

Equating the bodily risks faced by the Christian missionary to that faced by the Christian wife suggests that he holds Christian men to the same moral standards as unbelievers. While the Bible teaches us to expect persecution from the world, it doesn't teach us to expect it from Christians

[@Underdogtheology]

Or spouses! Absolutely!

[@Veitski87]

My cousin left India with his wife and children because of how dangerous it was as a missionary.

[@Underdogtheology]

Yes, we don’t have to stay in a place that is hostile. If we feel convicted to do so then absolutely, if not then leave. I’m glad your cousin and family got out!

[@masta1591]

I agree 1000%. I’ve been disappointed from the beginning of all of this but at this point it’s clear pride is the motivator and saving face. Lord help us.

[@thesmiffers]

His analogy is INSANE! Wow. "Shut it down!" I love your response.

[@selenachester2543]

I'm not a psychiatrist or a trained counsellor, but I am a medical doctor, and I think that any Christian who is registered with a professional body, be that medicine, law, teaching, local government, or anyone who is employed by Church, has a duty to speak out publicly against what is being taught at Master's University. This isn't merely a point of controversy, it's just plain wrong.

[@Underdogtheology]

Agreed!

[@ruthgar8]

I believe they also violated the duty to report.

[@Karenkis]

Wonder if the teacher would still have that same stance if his own daughter, a daddy's girl let's say, was getting beat up all the time by her spouse.... Yeah probably not... Hits different when it hits home. These people seem so out of touch with the reality of being abused its sad. The lack of empathy is astounding.

[@Underdogtheology]

Hit it on the nose!

[@melissasatchwell9472]

Thank you for this video. Christians must take a stand against abuse and false teaching within the church. Julie Roys must not be the lone “voice crying in the wilderness” any longer.

[@alfredo7843]

Why do I have to stumble upon this on KZbin? This should be front and center on mainstream outlets everywhere. Thanks for all your diligent work Dino!

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks!

[@chesterdiaz4382]

Thank you, dear brother Dean, for venting anger against the false teachings at the Grace Community Church and The Master's Seminary and University about the domestic abuse. You are right. I am part of the Reformed Christianity; however, I should focus more on God's Word than the erroneous preaching and lies of MacArthur, et. al.

[@Underdogtheology]

Appreciate that, Chester.

[@chesterdiaz4382]

@@Underdogtheology BTW, our Raptors are clinched to the NBA Playoffs! Are you ready to watch how Embiid will cry again? 😂😂😂

[@Underdogtheology]

@@chesterdiaz4382 I don’t know the way he’s played this season, we might be crying. I hope we face the Celtics. #WeTheNorth

[@PB_324]

Thanks for exposing this. Its unbelievable that so many are still digging in their heels. Hope you feel better soon. 🙏

[@nachagirl6995]

My husband was abusing me for years. My life was in danger daily. When I went to my reformed Baptist pastor for help, I was told to "suffer for Christ's sake" and "be more submissive" to my narcissistic husband, who was well-loved in our church.

[@MsKati30]

That is so horrible. Sadly, it is a common story

[@nachagirl6995]

That is what I am finding out now---that this is becoming common in many of our churches. I thought it was just my pastor at the time. @@MsKati30

[@davidbisset1405]

This beggars belief what a truly awful teaching and practice. As a husband and father of a daughter and a reformed Pastor I’m disgusted with GCC and MU. This whole debacle just gets worse.

[@Underdogtheology]

Agreed, Dave!

[@bonniehaney573]

I was mentally and verbally abused by my husband for years. It can be worse than physical abuse. I am in therapy for ptsd. I have suffered depression and anxiety. This type of abuse has not been addressed in most churches as legitimate. So sad.

[@MsKati30]

Sadly, people who run in these circles would not consider that abuse. When I tried to ask questions, I was told to define abuse… and basically the conversation segued into anything that someone endures that is less than what Christ endured for us is sanctifying. They are huge in saying that adultery and/or abandonment are the only grounds for biblical divorce- what they fail to realize that in emotionally abusive marriages, the victim has already been abandoned. And what they also fail to understand is that being subjected to continuous emotional turmoil has horribly detrimental physical effects on the body, so therefore it most certainly can be defined as physical abuse

[@bellyfulochelly4222]

Praise God for revealing the wickedness that is being done in secret!!!! 🖐️ May this wicked teaching be condemned by Christ's church and may His church be cleansed of all evil. P.S. Thank you for posting this in spite of your illness. I'm praying for you, brother. May your health be restored very quickly.

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks for the well wishes and unfortunately it’s not being done in secret which scares me. So many students have been taught this and yet we’re just finding out about this now? And only because of the Roys Report. Scary.

[@JonStallings]

Very tragic how someone could think the Bible condones staying in an abusive relationship. I do pray your healing is swift

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks, Jon! Appreciate it!!

[@enriquemata8558]

Thank you for having the courage to speak the truth.

[@wendywest5463]

Coming to this late in the game. My.former pastor is a.spiritual son of John Street, Wayne Mack and Ernie Baker. I was very deep into ACBC counseling but caught on to the deception early. But I stayed at the church way too long. The deception is wicked.and nearly literally deadly for some.of us...

[@josephbachota]

So true, this was truly insane! How they can teach women to stay in a abusive relationship is crazy. And do many people say these guys are sexist and oppressive towards women, well, based on these teachings, some of them are! Crazy

[@hybridlionable]

This is insane. A board member from my old church sent this. I have friends who are missionaries and myself hold a license to pastor and am a trained ICF coach. Some missionaries are ready to give their life that I know, they are in the live dead organization. Some are not, and that’s okay. My wife left a relationship that was unsafe, her ex husband was abusive. I thank God that He helped her leave. Edit: I love your hat. Never seen a video of yours before. Keep standing up for this.

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[@tyquandoe3490]

His “slippery slope” argument is silly and his slight of hand switching missionary work with marriage is downright deceitful.

[@buck-intrends8850]

Right on, brother. There are so many things about J Mac, his church, his elders, his seminary that are crimes against humanity or at least crimes against women. Showing video of what is actually being taught turns my stomach. My Lord would NEVER allow such things. Thank-you for being a voice of reason. Thank you for posting these atrocities. Thank you for being SO informative. What a sorry state of affairs for Christianity - or at least for the J Mac version of Christianity. Whatever J Mac is selling - I ain’t buying. Shut it ALL down. Keep up the good work Dean.

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks.

[@LonnieReimer]

This is heart breaking, they are teaching to victimize the victim. From the abuse victims I have counseled, many times a non supportive response, or a lack of response by the "trusted" people hurts just as deeply or deeper than the actual abuse. From my perspective anger is the proper and just response when confronted with the kind of thinking that is propagated by TMU.

[@Underdogtheology]

Completely agree! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Lonnie!

[@bobbischoen6341]

This whole thing is just so sad. The church should be a "safe place" for people who are being abused.

[@Underdogtheology]

Right? What a perversion!

[@rena6895]

Thank you for standing for the victims.

[@nickiehines5319]

👏 Good for you Dean your speaking the thruth.

[@wendywest5463]

Dean II can't tell you how very healing you have been tonight! I was terribly traumatized by this demonic teaching as were countless others in this.area. Thank you for speaking up for those who struggle to find our voice. Where are the men? Who will stand up to John MacArthur?

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks Wendy!!! Means a lot!

[@lizh1988]

"Where are the men?" Avoiding the person who is known as a Christian but is s abusive. Paul said "have nothing to do with such a person". We know an abusive one when we see it, but it does take some doing to get the idea in our head that this or these people are actually well known, established, seemingly reasonable Christians. But still not familiar with Jesus or the the God of the Bible.

[@strykerdawn1]

Thank you for taking time to deal deal with this problem. This is not ok. It needs to be shut down i completely agree. We just left our church over this nouthetic counseling. Our pastors didn't see the problem. It's just so sad.

[@Underdogtheology]

Yeah the fundamentalist view of “biblical” or nouthetic counseling usually means the church and by default the pastors deal with everything. And somethings are just too much for that simplistic philosophy.

[@pappywinky4749]

This is all so disappointing. My family had to deal with abuse for my entire childhood, until I was 20 years old. My dad, who was a pastor, is still dealing with this years later. We all experienced abuse, but what he had to go through was insane. To see a church and a pastor I admired for so long siding with abusers is just heartbreaking. Also, people bashing on Julie Roys for doing what a journalist is supposed to be doing is just unacceptable. She's not gossiping, she's bringing truth to the surface so that people are aware of important issues. The bible is full of examples of that. That's how we keep each other in check, how we continue to improve. Not by throwing things under the rug and hoping no one notices.

[@Underdogtheology]

I’m so sorry you went through that. Awful. I totally agree about Roys.

[@pappywinky4749]

@@Underdogtheology My heart just goes to the victims of this. This kind of situation is why my father is unable to go to church anymore. He was so hurt and abused that his relationship with God was affected. I went through the same thing. It's just hard because there's just nothing in the bible to support this. And what they use to defend this position is an insult to those who sacrifice their life in service of God.

[@Underdogtheology]

@@pappywinky4749 just awful. I totally understand why some have a genuine difficult time being vulnerable to a local church or even attending when they’ve been so hurt. People hurt, but Jesus never does. I hope that gives some comfort.

[@shawnharrison4994]

You have every right to speak about this, Dean. And I'm thankful that you did. To say that spousal abuse (abuse in the home) is equal to Christian persecution is insane - two totally different subjects. It's hard to even stomach what is being taught. It certainly is not scriptural, nor should be the practice of any shepherd. Such insanity ... I was never a personal fan of MacArthur, but I didn't necessarily steer people away from him. Until now; I will from now on. I can't trust him or his teachings. Though he is not the one personally teaching these classes or giving the counseling, he is the main shepherd of these teachers and counselors. Therefore, he is responsible for what is said and what is taught, and he is responsible for their wrong actions, especially if he continually remains silent on the subjects. There is coming a time when the Lord Jesus will call every teacher and pastor to give an account for everything they've taught and modeled before those they've been instructed to lead and disciple. May the Lord bring a revival among the pastors and teachers of His Church, that we would be ones who spoke what the Father was saying, and did what the Father was doing, just like Jesus - our Shepherd and example.

[@Underdogtheology]

Could not agree more, Shawn!

[@rominaf4901]

This explains a lot. Makes sense why Eileen went through what she did. It's interesting how the emphasis is put solely on the body. As if when someone is being physically abused it somehow only affects the body. I can't think of any other way but to put this down to total ignorance. I just wish they would stop calling it biblical. And yes, please shut it down.

[@cady4917]

I appreciate the videos you make. Thank you for speaking on this.

[@swordman802]

If you follow his logic, the next time someone attacks him in public while he is street preaching he should not attempt to get away or defend himself..

[@sophiapapadopoulos322]

I’m crying so hard I can’t breathe 💔 some of families believe/support the same, especially if they arrange the marriages. You take the abuse…. you’re NOT gonna shame the family. Now these guys are misusing the Word of our God that abuse is ok? Vengeance is mine says the Lord I will repay! God bless you dear brother Dean & your loved ones 🙏 my heart thanks you for sharing. Dear Lord help 🙏

[@Underdogtheology]

Thank you Sophia. You are so right! God will repay these actions!

[@JonAdamsMinistries]

I think it's definitely personal conviction if someone who is a missionary should stay in a hostile contry. I don't think it is personal preference when a woman is being abused, I think she should get away from that person. That doesn't always mean divorce but they definitely need to create some space while that person gets the help they need.

[@Underdogtheology]

Oh, look I found common sense folks! It’s right here! I completely agree Jon!

[@GmaJoKeepingitReal]

Jon, so agree! Those two thoughts are not even in the same camp! Again, if those in power would simply say, "I didn't mean it that way, please let me clarify, so sorry would never encourage one to remain in abuse as a dictate from scripture, deeply sorry" but no, they double down, hold their ground and die on that hill. God will not be mocked and he who has great power has greater responsibility and will be held so much more accountable. So sad. GmaJo

[@josephbenzjr.2849]

Couldn’t agree with you more. Used to really like MacArthur and have actually been blessed by a lot of his resources… however I believe now it’s come to a point where people are only defending MacArthur and not standing on biblical truth. To see this is what they are teaching to their students. It’s so disappointing.

[@Underdogtheology]

Right there with ya!

[@gordanazakula5669]

@@Underdogtheology Please reply to me. Although John Macarthur may be a genuine man of God, he is wrong to condone domestic violence. Would Jesus support women's rights? If I was in an abusive situation, would he deliver me? This is so sad, breaks my heart!!!

[@stevesizemore6274]

Yes. Almost cultic !

[@ems5886]

This is so wrong and looks so bad especially to those outside the Body of Christ! 1 Cor. 13:1 clanging cymbal. Feel better we'll be praying for you.

[@sarahtrerice1814]

Amen!!!! Yes. Keep telling the truth. To God be the glory!

[@tommywitte9916]

I agree masters should be shut down.You hit the nail on the head.

[@TonyThomas10000]

"Suffer for Jesus". Unconscionable.

[@johntobey1558]

Master's Seminary program in Christian Counseling should close its doors. For encouraging abuse.

[@Underdogtheology]

Agreed.

[@paigedinsmore3865]

Thank you for tackling this...

[@georgettaavila7398]

Beyond creepy. No wonder your not feeling well. Thanks for staying informed. The Lord strengthen you.

[@lukedailey]

Good job, Dean. Way to take a stand and use your platform. Also, 1,000 SUBSCRIBERS!!!!

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks, Luke!!! You’re always such an encouragement!

[@MarkDParker]

Even Jesus sought safety from violence when "they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds." (John 8:59, NIV)

[@93greenstrat]

Even a roach knows (as much as it is possible for a roach to "know" anything) to try and run away from danger. How do these people have the audacity teach that women (because it's almost always women should stay in a dangerous situation?

[@Foffs_Musings]

well unfortunately it appears they have been acting very consistently with their beliefs... this whole thing has been disheartening and the silence from them is deafening.

[@Underdogtheology]

Sadly, yes.

[@maryshehane7711]

This is unbelievable and so very evil.

[@ruthgar8]

So does John Street possess the spiritual gift of martyrdom? If we follow his logic, shouldn’t he go and preach on the street corners of Islamabad. Oh, but he’s all about assigning martyrdom to women and children. Totally agree with you.

[@stevesizemore6274]

Mac Arthur's repeated lack of wisdom is appalling. Why anyone would go to him for guidance is beyond me.

[@selenachester2543]

People who are triggered by the name Julie Roy really need to grow a pair...

[@barbarasimmons4158]

Her greatest offense is that she is of the lower class, a woman. smh

[@graftme3168]

Wow!! Just wow! Even the apostles took off when they were under physical threat! Purposely walking into a physical threat is not godly, it's stupid.

[@1Piper2Phebe]

This mind set enables evil and sin.

[@Underdogtheology]

Yep!

[@joyg7575]

I took a good look at the "teacher" photo that you put up. He had such a big smile, but there was no smile in his eyes. Anytime I see dead eyes, I stay far away from them.

[@davidbengb8484]

This went from being a severe lack of self awareness to straight-out heracy. Thanks for still covering this whole mess, blessings.

[@rettpanda6203]

When I left my husband 25 years ago, I was counseled that I must still at least continue my "marital duties"...if you catch my drift. I was so stupid and naive back then. This is just disgusting. John MacArthur, TMU, GCC, all of it, needs to go away. This is abusive.

[@Underdogtheology]

That’s so awful. I’m sorry, Rett.

[@rettpanda6203]

@@Underdogtheology me and my older kids made it out, it took several years for me to realize that the teaching I received from those pastors was completely wrong. I have no regrets divorcing him 20 years ago.

[@Underdogtheology]

@@rettpanda6203divorce is always heart breaking, but abuse (physical, sexual, and emotional) is absolutely grounds for a biblical divorce. Thanks for sharing Rett.

[@brendaseals7739]

Spot on Ty

[@Gofishfly]

You are Spot on Brother

[@Underdogtheology]

Hey, Iain love your books! 😜

[@Cloudforest811]

It's so ironic because even Paul the apostle escaped through a window in a basket when he knew he would be killed. To any victims out there: It's not wrong to seek your physical safety. Period.

[@belongtotheway7869]

The "either or -ism" of religion and religious men is quite astounding. Equating a missionary who willingly puts him/herself in a situation where they are AWARE of persecution (physical harm) then that is their CHOICE. A woman/mother, children who are abused by a father/dad is NOT the same or even close. The either or-ism comes from hearing these "men" say either we make it about protecting the body in ALL circumstances OR we dont...Option C sir....Option Christ and HIS teachings. Often times within a religion that claims to be "Christ entered" you will see things like this being taught as truth. Get that wife and children to safety!!!! And get that abuser behind bars, get him off the streets, let him get his "reward". Sad video even more sad that men and women who claim to follow Christ hear "this message" and understand it as truth. And to the wife and children who are abused who hear this, that to endure abuse from their husband/father is a "godly" thing to do, what a negative testimony of Christ and His goodness. Hope you and your loved ones you feel better soon.

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks, and I completely agree!

[@LouisaWatt]

That’s… wild 😧 are they saying that murder within marriage is God’s will? Does he think that Christ, the model of a husband, condones abusing wives? Cos the biblical model of marriage is the husband protecting his wife bodily (Ephesians 5).

[@Underdogtheology]

I’m sure they’d be outraged by that question, but then apparently be ok with a few black eyes. 🙄😡

[@LouisaWatt]

@@Underdogtheology one of the ironies for me, after being saved out of the occult, is that when witches and satanists throw accusations about the moral corruption in churches… they’re not wrong. It’s a huge problem for our credibility and sharing the gospel 😔

[@Underdogtheology]

@@LouisaWatt I agree. This hurts more than a lot of other “threats” to the Gospel.

[@PotterSpurn1]

You missed a trick here. You forgot to spell out what GCC is really about here: promoting and inciting serious criminal offences. Street should be in jail, not just sacked.

[@bellyfulochelly4222]

I think it's very peculiar how this teaching is guiding GCC and TMU counseling and their formulaic disciplinary protocol, but John MacArthur himself is never linked directly. Reminds me of a spiritually abusive pastor I was under for several years who got himself involved with all kinds of sin, but (publicly) always managed to keep his own hands clean.

[@barbarasimmons4158]

Matthew 23:9-10 And call no man your father vpon the earth: for one is your father which is in heauen. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, euen Christ.

[@cfrost87]

If one spouse is abusing the other, they are not loving and respecting their spouse the way they are supposed to and are living in sin. We should not be condoning sin just for the sake of "suffering for Jesus."

[@Underdogtheology]

Agreed!

[@steveobrien3673]

Woah. Such perverse teaching.

[@FloodSociety]

Great video!

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks!

[@daddurch]

Well I remember that John and one of his sermons said that there was a man after his daughter trying to get into the house and he had a ball bat and said if that guy opens the door he's going to turn his head into a c note. why didn't he just let the guy have his daughter he was only going to hurt the body. You see it's all just a play on words

[@Underdogtheology]

Interesting how that works.

[@neillm4012]

I am a “M” living overseas most of the last 32 years. Most agencies leave it to the individuals to make decisions of staying in case of danger. Mainly because often it is hard to know how much danger there could be. Just because there are some incidents of persecution, or general danger that has nothing to do with you, that are still very unlikely to affect any specific person (you). There have been times when an agency forced their workers to leave, and helped believers to immigrate, but often other countries are quite safe even though there are some instances of persecution or harmful acts. Some choose to stay even with greater danger. Key is “can I continue to be a witness for Christ”?

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks for your insights in this. That has been my understanding as well. If they want to stay and think they can continue to do ministry then they stay, if not then escape and find safety. Thanks ,Neil!

[@paigedinsmore3865]

This scenario is so similar to the Calvary Chapel 'method' of 'counseling', always citing 1 Peter 3:1 to hyper-spiritualize trauma and dysfunction in marriage. There is a tsunami of stories like this 'out there'.

[@michaeledc]

So in this guy's mind, the missionaries and their families who were recently kidnapped in Haiti should never have escaped? That's lunacy!

[@Underdogtheology]

Seems that way.

[@krissifaith6709]

This is disgusting...

[@PotterSpurn1]

I personally lost respect for MacArthur and for Jeff Durbin and Justin Peters too for supporting him - and publicly - through his exposure. It clearly demonstrates that their heart is one of hatred for women - a deep abiding mysogyny. How can they be anything else? How can Dubin be against abortion and yet support a pastor who supports the teaching of spousal abuse when that woman might be pregnant, could lose their baby or their child exposed to child molestation. The only thread that co-joins these two opinions is the desire to control women. They just hide behind the Bible to prop up their rampant chauvenism, which would be on full display whether they were 'believers' or not.

[@suechapel1443]

I pray that you will get better soon 🙏❤ Thanks for bringing this to our attention 😊

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks, Sue!!!

[@cady4917]

The comparison to missions is ridiculous. If I become a missionary and go to a country that I know is hostile toward sharing the gospel, I know what I'm signing up for. In a way, we are told we will be persecuted for our faith, and missionaries are not always received with open arms. They know that going into it. Nowhere in the Bible (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong) does it say you will be persecuted by your spouse. You are not opening yourself up to the possibility of partner abuse when you get married. I think it is a tragedy when missionaries are harmed and I'm not trying to make light of that at all. But people who go out into the mission field know what they are opening themselves up to. Getting married should not mean opening yourself up to abuse. That should never be considered something that you could be possibly signing up for when you get married. It truly does blow my mind the lengths they will go to allow partner abuse. It's like pulling teeth for them to have any compassion for Christians that are women. I saw a tiktok the other day where a guy was talking about "why are women dating outside of the church?" And I'm really at a loss as to how that is a mystery to them. It's stuff like this. We watch our moms and sisters be abused, and we're just supposed to walk into the same fate? I'm glad I didn't harden my heart to finding a Christian man who is loving and treats me the way a Christian man should. I found a needle in a haystack, and he really helps me on days when I think too many Christian men have gone down the John Macarthur route. But man, they are making it hard for us to trust men in the church. And it's really sad.

[@lizh1988]

I've lately been seeing people say that Christian churches have often asked young teen girls to stand in front of the congregation if they got pregnant and confess and repent in order to not get kicked out. But NO action taken against the boys or men that did this, if they are church members. Women saying that it's always been that way.

[@fredkison6400]

It’s beyond weird…it’s flat out wrong and unbiblical! Thank you for addressing this @deanlentini

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks, Fred.

[@ruthgar8]

I share your moral clarity on this issue. Aside from a direct appeal to its morally wrong, can you explain how a Calvinist who holds to causal determinism avoids the logical inferences that could lead to such justification? A professor of law and I were discussing the problem of responsibility and determinism over dinner last night, and it aligned with this problem. How could believing that God causes all things that comes to pass for His glory adding complementarianism, divorce is the big sin, the church should never look bad, offenders if they say they’re sorry should get an immediate restoration, etc. How does the church and leadership get out of that “framing?” We discussed the Bible, church history, theology, philosophers and could not see how to rationally avoid the Fideism displayed in GCC. Certainly we agreed a person could be logically inconsistent so did Jordan Peterson that night. These things all intersect. While I agree with the moral and social convictions of my fellow conservative Christians, I’m seeing the same type methodology and fallacies used by the Left in Fundamentalism and Calvinism. Example: believe the science. Science doesn’t say anything. It’s a tool to observe. Science doesn’t “speak” into politics or policy. Politicians and lawmakers do. Science becomes a foil for those who would dare question their interpretation. They demand Fideism. Just trust us even though it’s not based on an incontrovertible interpretation of data. Trust us and don’t talk about all the economic and other health damages the Covid19 shutdown caused. Etc. Same with certain theology positions that do not derive from an incontrovertible interpretation of Scripture. Just trust that highly debated interpretation and let us get on with the application and telling you how you “ought” to think and “ought” to behave. Disregard the fact that a woman gets beaten and children get molested. You “ought” to suffer for God. Don’t you know your safety is not what God’s about? Besides He chose you for this so as to display His glory in your suffering. I’m fact off you accept that you must also receive that He wants this abuse to happen and He causally determined it. The easy Fideism answer would be to appeal to mystery or a WCF statement where after it builds a huge case for God causally determined everything, by saying, “But He does not author sin.” We wanted to strong man the determinist side. But as we looked at the current problem facing the legal system in assigning guilt and responsibility (because naturalist determinism has become the assumption in academia), we see the same issue at a case like GCC. How could GCC find fault in themselves? They are teaching correct counseling because they have the correct exposition of the text. They’re exposition proves God authors all things and ordained them to be correct. Who are you oh man to find fault? The discussion went much deeper. But it would be interesting to be able to toss a strong Calvinist’s logical and rational method of overcoming the pattern and path the underlying assumptions follow and we see an outcome we’d expect in GCC in particular and similar groups.

[@juliemayes2027]

I rather think that John MacArthur and his councillors should learn the WHOLE council of Scripture and stop weaponising The Bible no I don’t think divorce is Biblical either except in a few instances BUT abuse isn’t either in these circumstances how utterly dangerous this is

[@thebcvbookchapterversepodc7886]

It's not bizarre teaching, bro. It's FALSE TEACHING! #FixedIt

[@Underdogtheology]

Agreed.

[@bobreese4807]

John MacArthur Jr. does NOT support ALL 10 commandments.. from his own mouth at Grace Community Church.. September 20, 2009 “It’s important to notice that just as He obliterated the sacrificial system, He obliterated the Sabbath system.” “Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven..” MATT 5 .”making the word of God of no effect through your tradition (SUNday) which you have handed down.” Mk 7 John MacArthur Jr..is a 21st century Pharisee.

[@HPP2023]

Good video, brother.

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks, Joshua.

[@davidcswpg]

Exodus - God getting His people out of physical abuse

[@DocKobryn]

This guys NUTS! A wife does not get MARRIED with the same expectations as a family going on a MISSIONARY trip. Hello?! Her HUSBAND is SUPPOSEDLY ALREADY A CHRISTIAN. This is DISGUSTING! A bunch of double speak making excuses for abusive husbands that the church simply doesn't want to punish because they'd have to actually GET RID of husbands who do this, AND BE HONEST with their congregants.

[@cady4917]

When my dad would hurt my mom in an unchristian way, he would say it was on her to get him to do the right thing. Because wives are supposed to "draw the husband back to Christ." While at the same time saying he was supposed to be the leader of the home, aka make all of the decisions and not listen to mom's opinions or concerns. So what is it, are you not Christian enough that you need your wife to draw you to Christ? Or are you supposed to be the leader, the strongest Christian in the family? It can't be both ways. But they want an avenue to excuse their sins and also an avenue to have their way without having to care about or listen to anyone else.

[@davidpittman8111]

Thank you Dean. I'd like to add this...we have example after example after example where Jesus addressed an immediate physical need before EVER speaking to the spiritual, if He even did. Seems like, and I'm no biblical scholar so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like Jesus had a focus on the safety and well-being of the body. Seems like He set a pretty good example to follow. How these knuckle draggers don't see this when it comes to actual safety is beyond me. But I guess it really isn't about that for them. It's all about maintaining power at any cost. Even the cost of an innocent life. So much for "pro-life". Hope you get feeling better soon!

[@Underdogtheology]

Totally agree, David.

[@thesmiffers]

Brother, you are in good company. Peter, Andrew, James and John, and the remaining eight were "no "biblical scholar (s)," and yet, the writings of two of them are part of our New Testament cannon.

[@debbieloy5284]

Yes I agree with you. They need to get rid of the 2 main instructors and revamp their counseling department. It looks like their main resource is the acbc for their biblical counseling. Boy his views are soooo twisted. Unreal. Thanks Dean I'm from the US.

[@marwynts898]

💯 agree 👍

[@jonathaneagle3554]

This is what happens when you become so consumed in your understanding of the Bible without thinking in terms of what CHRIST called the need for kindness, justice and righteousness.. What foolishness ... I wonder if the preacher would endure such horrible abuse and cruelty.. it is so simple to preach to those who are suffering

[@archerj2010]

This is really distressing. I'll need to do a deep dive into Mr. Macarthur - I've got some study material of his i really like - and i may continue to use it. But i don't believe I'll be buying any more if this and other issues are what people say they are. Subscribed by the way.

[@bobhall3535]

Great job, Dean! Ongoing abusive situations need to be adequately addressed, including separating and protecting the abused party. When the husband is the head of the marriage, the wife still has protective rights from abuse. She is not obligated to receive abusive conduct by the head of the home no more than citizens are compelled to take abusive behavior by their government. The husband's role is to love and protect his wife, not show hate or angry conduct toward her. This type of conduct is antibiblical, not Biblical. Thus, protection should come from outside sources until proper action can be addressed and see if possible changes in the abuser are taking place. Unbiblical patterns of conduct need to change before reconciliation is recommended. If not, those patterns will continue, and the root of the problem hasn't been addressed, putting the wife back into harm's way. Like many, I follow Johnny Mac because of his excellent theological teaching. However, I do have some disagreements with what he says. If what you just presented is true, then yes, this is another disagreement I have with J Mac. The Master's College and Seminary need to take a good look at what they are teaching their students and distance themselves from this unbiblical mindset... plus terminate the head of its counseling program. If it takes KZbin and you guys addressing this issue... bringing it to the forefront, then so be it. Public pressure will force Grace to examine the situation, and at that point, we will see what happens when the ball is in Grace's court. Again, great job. Keep up the good work, buddy!

[@Underdogtheology]

Thanks, Bob!

[@gordanazakula5669]

Thank you Bob!!! John Macarthur is a man of God, but he is wrong to condone domestic violence. Please reply to me.

[@bobhall3535]

@@gordanazakula5669 Yeah, Gordana... I've spent 40 yrs. affiliated with Christian groups, churches, and organizations. I've seen a lot of leadership mistakes, inconsistencies, and outright sin take place. I've seen pastors fall due to sexual immorality, financial mismanagement, lying, and dealing with the flesh in our struggle to maintain a strong character position in Christ. I've seen a university go from 5000 to 500 in a matter of a few years... to finally closing its doors... all because of mismanagement, sin in the camp, and a religious legalistic mindset to boot. We Christians are human as well as spiritual... and buddy the human fleshly side does show, sorry to say. Thanks for your comment Gordana.

[@gordanazakula5669]

@@bobhall3535 Please reply to me again. It breaks my heart that Christian men are anti-feminist, abusive, corrupt. Why is there so much evil in the Body of Christ? Surely, Jesus would NOT condone female oppression? Coercive control is evil, and now a crime. lam obsessed with domestic violence, and men are victims too. Surely, Jesus will judge them; do you think His return is imminent? l HATE this evil world.

[@VigilantServant]

Some missionaries choose to stay in danger, but none are required to by man or God. I guess if a woman chooses to marry a man she knows will beat her daily as her mission, then she won't want to leave and no one should make her. But no women get married to be this kind of missionary. The Reformed should be the first to call this out and purge it. Once again JR is taking all the heat. And that's not right.

[@Maranatha7557]

I have to say that years ago I tried listening to John MacArthur sermons, but I always got this feeling from him of severity and superiority that I just couldn’t get on board. I think I discerned correctly.

[@Underdogtheology]

Probably a good choice at this point.

[@anthonym.7653]

Wow, that is just awful.

[@Underdogtheology]

Agreed.

[@WellAlwaysBeFriends]

Thank God for people like you to completely expose these vile people. We owe it to the Lord to expose these people and separate ourselves from them. For the Lord’s sake most of all, for the Bride, and especially the lost, who will see this filth, be driven from God, die, and go to hell. The good thing is, as infuriating as this is, God is just and will stain these men’s hands with the blood of all those lost. “The Word is sharper than any two edged sword” The truth cuts both ways. Thank The Lord for His perfect justice to all mankind. And thank you, Brother! I know you didn’t want to make another video. You’ve made a few. But The Lord sees your obedience and I pray He blesses you. Prayers for a quick Covid recovery in Jesus’s Mighty Name as well!

[@christiantruthmatters]

This is getting more crazy

[@Underdogtheology]

Right?!?

[@richardcaraballo1185]

His logic on not getting missionaries out of danger CLEARLY shows he needs to study the gospels more. Numerous times Jesus himself "escaped through the crowd" or slipped away to avoid persecution. If Christ did it, shouldn't we also? And his point about valuing the spiritual over the physical, isn't that Gnosticism, which is heresy?

[@barbarasimmons4158]

And He warned to flee to the mountains when Jerusalem would be judged. And to flee evil, and to "come out of her."

[@Underdogtheology]

Yep. Good call on the gnosticism! 👀👀👀

[@Kay-br7by]

America is in deeeeeep trouble with the kind of pastors you've given your ears to...

[@marymorris6897]

This is different from fundamentalist Islam -- how?

[@julesdiner8133]

Why is he equating the call to the mission field with marriage vows? No correlation between the two.

[@Loveispatient76]

Man I wish I would have saw your video! The one about abuse. In need of help with this.

[@Underdogtheology]

I’m sorry to hear that, are you at a church where you can talk to a trusted pastor?

[@Justice4Mica]

And the key from Deans comment is TRUSTED pastor. If you talk to ANYONE who tells you to stay in the abusive situation then they are not to be trusted.

[@Underdogtheology]

@@Justice4Mica Yes, that is exactly what I intended, Lisa.

[@Loveispatient76]

@@Justice4Mica thankyou.

[@Loveispatient76]

@@Underdogtheology thankyou!