Mastering Diagnostics #10: 10 Days of Troubleshooting Torture

In this video of Mastering Diagnostics, Motor Age Technical Editor Brandon Steckler implements a four-trace digital storage oscilloscope and current probe to capture a very elusive intermittent engine-starter fault that took over 10 days to reproduce. Brandon takes his time to carefully triage the situation with his eyes and ears before researching the system wiring diagram and building a diagnostic game plan.
Tune in and hang on as Brandon systematically troubleshoots a real-world problem on his vehicle. That’s right, no “bugs” placed here! Brandon’s car really does have an issue, and he needs it solved swiftly and efficiently.
#Diagnostics, #LabscopeDiagnostics, #Thedatadoesntlie, #Intermittentfault, #Electrical #Circuitfault #Logic, #Analysis
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[@DTEAuto]

Thanks for sharing and keeping us on our tippy-toes 👍👍

[@brandonsteckler3417]

It's my pleasure, honestly!

[@dude8165]

Moral of the "story " Amperage was Key..Thanks Brandon

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Spot-on! Thank you for watching!

[@MarzNet256]

Awesome. Really cool the way you analyze the loads.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@mechanic350]

Hey Brandon, don't you ever get rid of that vehicle. I have the same one. 2008 honda civic 1.8. that vehicle is super reliable just take care of it and it will take care of you. and thanks for showing me how to diagnose that issue should I ever come across it. I'm not a mechanic. but i'm an experienced DIYER. Just working on my own vehicles. the only thing that would trip me off is the interpretation of the waveforms. I have a snapon verus and i would be able to do what you did. but the kicker is the INTERPREATION of what I'm looking at. thanks buddy.

[@djosbun]

A superb presentation, Brandon. Thank you!

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@mikeburdi3464]

Great "tutorial" Brandon! Thanks for sharing. 👍🏼

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@mikechiodetti4482]

Good diagnostic test plan.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@JohnDoe-sp8zg]

I appreciate the concise discussion of the circuit and how current is flowing and what and where you are testing. The challenge to others to practice this is a nice touch also Sometimes that aspect can be overwhelming. Thanks for keeping it easy to understand.

[@JohnDoe-sp8zg]

Sometimes refers to videos that lose tract of keeping it simple and easy to follow

[@lupedelacruz4152]

Very good Amigo I can understand what your teaching now that I'm studying with scanner Danner thank you thank you thank you very much

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Excellent News! Paul is a very sharp diagnostician and I’m honored to call him a “friend”.

[@80SWoods]

Hi Brandon, thanks for all you do! I’ve been watching lots of your videos and just ordered two of your booked from AES Wave. The one about pressure transducers and also the streamlined approach to diagnosing. I look forward to them!

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Wonderful, thank you for your support!

[@80SWoods]

@@brandonsteckler3417 Last night I read your “A Streamlined Approach to Diagnostic Dilemmas” cover to cover! It was great!

[@IamReadyToRock]

Beautiful diagnostic.... from Perú 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@ThunderbirdRocket]

100 % .

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@richardnilsen8950]

Do you find yourself starter circuit blind? Not any more with motor ACE #10 I can see I can see Thank God all mighty I can see 😁👍🎅great video Great scope colors graphics look cool 👍

[@billyyoder8171]

Thank you Brandon. Good job.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you, Bill!

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

Nice diagnosis!

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@adampietrzykoski7344]

Thanks for sharing and explaining what all the traces means.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

It’s my pleasure, honestly!

[@punditgi]

Thanks for the video

[@brandonsteckler3417]

It’s my pleasure! Thanks for watching

[@trooper11c]

Reading that wiring diagram is way above my head. 😢

[@ThunderbirdRocket]

Very very helpful / motivating tutorial ! Thanks mate . 👊🏼🔥

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Awesome, thank you!

[@mike-yp1uk]

Great content as usual

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@JessClearyAutoRepairLLC]

Nice video, In order to make this a 100% sure call, wouldn't you want to see voltage on the large cable at the solenoid while the failure occurs? A bad connection between the battery, and the solenoid, could also cause the results you have on the scope. In practice I'm sure you made the right call, but it is a possibility (however unlikely). Thanks for all the tech videos, as usual, I enjoyed it.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

You’re are absolutely correct. If that area was easily accessible, I would certainly have tested there. However, considering the fault comes and goes so intermittently, in my experience, that specific circuit issue would’ve been highly unlikely. If this was in a shop scenario, I would sell the starter and carefully inspect connections upon disassembly 🤜🏻🤛🏻

[@magid5441]

Millions thanks

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@DuaneDonaldson]

Thanks for the DIAG with Waveforms, Schematic, Symptoms, actual fault, and how intermittent problems can take a long time to find. I only searched my Private Library under Honda/Acura. There are not a lot of Honda Starter repair jobs on KZbin as it's typically an easier job to figure out and most mechanics/techs do not publish unless they are the DIY type of Channel. This is the closest to your case where the problem is very intermittent but here the starter motor actually hums. What made your video nice is the scope pattern to show the DELAY after the pintle motion as proof, I did not inspect my entire library for a starter DELAY as we are working with a Honda here now. Even videos with a bad ignition switch did not have a DELAY in my collection for Honda. There are other possibilities for a No Crank No Start scenarios but I also stuck with a bad starter final repair, cheers. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYqagHSLZtqratU

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you!

[@dude8165]

I like Brandon Stackler's method way better .its faster and cleaner lol

[@joekuntzman4016]

Ohm's law 10 volts ÷ 20 amps = .5 Resistance

[@edwardlara1011]

Why plug 10 volts if it's a 12 volt system?

[@joekuntzman4016]

@@edwardlara1011 from the video, 10 volts was the voltage

[@ThunderbirdRocket]

👍🏼🎯

[@dougkelley1266]

Your training videos are amazing. Do you have any understanding wiring diagram videos

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Doug, thank you so much for the feedback. I do not yet have a video based solely on wiring diagram analysis however, I can make a few recommendations for classes that are offered through Carquest technical Institute.

[@dougkelley1266]

It would be greatly appreciated if you could send class information. I am a fairly advanced diyer but do struggle a little bit with wiring diagrams. I get there but slowly. Thanks again Mr. Steckler.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

These classes are designed for the professional technician. I’m not sure where you can find traing for a DIY’er.

[@dougkelley1266]

Thanks for your responses. Greatly appreciated.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

My pleasure!

[@nickayivor8432]

Can't wait for the next video Tutorial brilliant 👍 SHARP, BRANDON STECKLER MOTOR AGE From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 22:41pm Good Evening

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you, Nick!

[@vicpetrishak7705]

Last resort puncturing a conductor , apply 3M Scotchkote FD coating . This coating is specially designed for underground electrical splices . It is expensive but is well worth it . Amazon , 15 fd oz can is $60.00 A less expensive alternative is Dap tub and tile caulk in a squeezable tube P/N 8889 . Do not use RTV acrylic silicone , it is corrosive .

[@MotorAgeMagazine]

Thanks! So long as it doesn't corrode copper, it will suffice. NO RTV ALLOWED though...very important!

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Yes, it would…everything would be elevated to the amplitude equivalent to the amperage draw for the headlights (riding on top of the headlamp amperage

[@johnpost3289]

Hi Brandon, great presentation. Question: If you were to perform a cranking amperage test (RC) from the negative battery cable, wouldn't you have been able to see the same information with the addition of the actual arcing taking place when the solenoid plunger bridged the contact between the B+ and M terminals? Just curious on your thoughts.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Yes, I would’ve saw all the above and everything else operating in the vehicle

[@JohnDoe-sp8zg]

What would that amp trace look like if you for some reason had the lights on and doing the cranking amperage? It'd still show the shuttling hump?

[@tomhague1162]

I like your videos. Keep up the great work. They make you think, which is something that a lot of technicians don't do these days.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

It’s my reason for doing these videos. We were not all taught how to think. I truly believe if we can learn to understand, posses and leverage the correct tools/service there is NOTHING we can’t figure out! 🤜🏻🤛🏻

[@mike-s8n8y]

Great demo vid well explained , i was trying to answer the delay symptoms that went away after the car had started ?

[@brandonsteckler3417]

Thank you! not sure I quite understand your comment, but the delay was due to the solenoid physically sticking/not shuttling properly. The contacts that supply current to the starter motor wouldn't close.

[@mike-s8n8y]

@@brandonsteckler3417 Thanks Branon , i watched your video again and gave it some study , the delay was as you say both solenoid windings staying energized and possible sticking plunger ,

[@juergenscholl2843]

Thank you Brandon, once more😊 Additionally, when the solenoid main contacts finally close and allow the starter motor to engage you should be able to spot the amperage to the solenoid (S terminal) decreasing the very moment when the pull in winding is deenergized. With the main contacts at fault and not closing, both windings ( pull-in and hold-in) will consume more current.

[@brandonsteckler3417]

You got it!

[@plowe6751]

Ten days worth of diag time. That's a hard sell. Cheaper to just throw a starter, starter relay, neutral position switch, transmission range switch, ignition switch, and brake pedal at it.

[@mandytuning]

06 acura tsx with 240k that will keep for ever, after 3 min of this video i will say that exactly happened to my car, was starter copper contacts and almost no brushes, replaced brushes and copper contacts for cheap and working great. no chinnese starter from stores. Now to keep watching this video and see your after come.