War Thunder DEV - GRIPEN 1V1's DOGFIGHTS AFTER the FLIGHT MODEL change! Is it still amazing?

[@Oliver-bh5tr]

Matt pumping out more content than gaijin has for Britain this whole year

[@ThePrimordialArchon]

I personally believe the brits should be removed entirely and replaced with a JPEG micheal collins

[@bigmatthews666]

@@ThePrimordialArchoni believe you are from a lineage of conquered people

[@bigmatthews666]

@@Slight- Undefeated Since 1066 - We are the conquerers.

[@theegunpro4561]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@ThePrimordialArchon]

@@bigmatthews666 the Irish

[@nicolaspeigne1429]

Seems pretty realistic as how the fly by wire would restrict you IRL, if you consider the pilot would be superhuman like WT pilots of course

[@Karnitin75]

The gripen has computer control systems. The pilot basically inputs all input from stick & rudders into a computer. So yea the wire isnt accurate

[@ser43_OLDC]

Fly by wire has been in warthunder since the f14 was added​@@Karnitin75

[@buschacha]

Honestly as we move deeper into 4th gen and FBW it makes me wish all planes had been moved to old F-16 standard. i.e. realistic limitations

[@humbuggaming2126]

Irl gripen has the best instantaneous and sustained turn rate of all modern figthers. It will be most manouverable figther in warthunder forever

[@Marco-cg7fb]

Honestly it looks like the “nerf” was a buff. It doesnt bleed away speed in the same way, and can now maintain a decent rate

[@davidbalogun7569]

This thing makes me so terrified of what the Dassault Rafale will be like

[@Migthunder]

and the typhoon

[@ikill-98]

​@@Migthunder Dassault rafale is better 😜

[@appa609]

​@@ikill-98fatter

[@ser43_OLDC]

​@@ikill-98no. Just in the one circle, but the Typhoon is better than the Rafale in two circle

[@Migthunder]

@@ikill-98 no its not 💀

[@castamere3368]

the gripen e (or c) when it has the full set-up, meteors and iris-t's. Is going to be so fun

[@exseque21]

Maybe in 2025 bro...

[@eduardokarlos1419]

So fun to destroy some buildings with iris-t?

[@adam632]

Mat will approv the E version bcuz 🇧🇷 use it🎉

[@MeWhne]

Watch the Brazilian Subtree for some random nation get the Gripen E two major updates before Sweden themselves.

[@HarrDarr]

the j39E is buiilt to kill gen 4 and 4.5 planes, and it wouldn't even even be close. it would be like a 13.3/13.7 rating plane if f22 and f35 are 14.3

[@christopherchartier3017]

6 min Gah dam. And btw now the eagle actually did get a slight flight model adjustment, Defyn was testing it and it did pretty well against the flanker

[@zephyriic]

as a swede this is just unlocking some primal sense of pride within me

[@TigerJaeger131]

I hope we will see some of the other European fighters soon.

[@sherifaljeddawy2467]

I tried them before and after changes, stability & energy retention are even better lmao!

[@MrDumpling121]

i recommend using "relative control" (control mode in simulator mode) and Pitch axis (maximum volume) to do a cobra, instead of screen joystick🥰

[@janizzkar]

I wonder after the changes how it does against mirage 4k now.

[@ilikestarwars4438]

it was getting cooked by the 4k in most dogfights so i assume its going to be the same deal if the gripen gets nerfed

[@Spaz1NOuT]

I find it funny that the AIM-7M only exists because of Skyflash but Skyflash still lacks its Monopulse seeker

[@ZLEEP2324]

Holy shit Matt, you’re on top of things, props man

[@oppositelock4356]

GripenDezNutz is a legendary name 😂😂

[@GripenDeezNetz]

TY, Its GripenDezNetz though lololol. I had to scoop it

[@oppositelock4356]

@@GripenDeezNetz still solid name but missed an opportunity there 😂

[@GripenDeezNetz]

na, those two jets are dope. Tryin to keep it somewhat PG lol@@oppositelock4356

[@nathanshank5208]

Pretty sure everyone crying about the Gripen just coping because the su-27 bandwagons butt hurt that they aren’t the best 😂😂😂

[@n0rman908]

Or because theres a 20 year gap between the introduction of the F-15A and the Gripen idk maybe thats it?

[@dadolphinplayz]

@@n0rman908 fly the f16c then which is from 1984 which is only 4 years older than gripen

[@n0rman908]

@@dadolphinplayz Gripen wasnt introduced to combat units until 1996

[@MeWhne]

​@@n0rman908as stated numerous times, Time is not a good indicator of capability. The gripen isn't even the most modern aircraft, the mig-29SMT was introduced 1997 and the Gripen in 1993.

[@n0rman908]

@@MeWhne Yes but for an update adding the two aircraft that created modern air superiority fighters you would hope they wouldnt overshadow them in the same update. Also i hard agree that the mig smt shouldnt even be in the game yet but its gaijin.

[@OfficialHLKing]

I wonder how the Gripen would do against a Ho-229

[@Onezmhu]

shit on it after two turns i guess

[@specc_s1452]

​@@Onezmhuyeah the Gripen would be lucky to make it out unscathed

[@OllieRy321]

@@specc_s1452just force the Ho 229 to turn for a few seconds and it will be shit out of luck, energy retention and high speeds just smashes the Horton.

[@ariane19.]

The main issue about most warthunder dogfights is that all anyone does it put the cursor on the enemy and hold S for the most part while going 1 circle, that is not how you fly a plane, especially the f15 and f16. The reason the f16c gets a worse rep for dogfighting is that its slightly worse in a 1 circle than the f16a but for ppl who just use their mouse and hold S its all the difference. The f16a/c are basically on par in a 1 circle with f16a getting a slight advantage due to it being a bit lighter and on par in a 2 circle with the f16c being able to accelerate better due to having a 30% more thrust than the f16a. The f16 in general is and will stay the best rate fighter in the game because there is simply nothing that can outrate it in a 2 circle fight even irl if the f16 keeps its speed at 660-800kph. The f15 is also a great rate fighter and its decent at 1 circle fights as well, it performs better at higher altitudes than most other planes alongside the su27 with the su27 being better in a 1circle than the f15 and slightly worse in a 2 circle (su27 best rate speeds are around 750kph). But I guess thats just the nature of the game. It is unironically mostly up to pilot skill, not the plane, I could beat f16as in a mig23mld in a rate fight for gods sakes because no1 knows how to maintain their speed and dont know their planes strenghts and weaknesses

[@mossie1000]

These videos are still longer than the COD campaign😂

[@lunarcultist6214]

Aaaand Matt completely forgot about the Mirage again.

[@SuperTitoneli]

He's not the only one, all content creators are talking about gripen's performance but they just forget about the M4K wich was kicking even the old model of the gripen, i really hope that they fix the flight model of the mirage too, that thing will be insane if come to the game like that, and trust me when i say that will be much more problematic than jas39

[@bluefox9436]

​@@SuperTitonelithe new Gripen model defeats the Mirage actually pretty easily. Because what Matt failed to realise is, that even though the Gripen can't pull a cobra anymore it now has the ability to sustain a stupid amount of energy whilst pulling off a 15G sustained turn. I already thought that the mirage needs a nerf but that thing needs a hotfix ASAP - that's not a Gripen but a goddamn Eurofighter at this point.

[@cristalhalo5357]

​@@bluefox9436yeah but the mirage does beat it anyway, it beats it in one circle, two circle and even low speed scissor fight, the mirage is better , not by much but still is

[@bluefox9436]

@@cristalhalo5357 not really - the gripen currently has a way too high t2w ratio making sure that you'll never fall below a certain amount of speed - basically like the F16A but way better.

[@cristalhalo5357]

@@bluefox9436 what do you think the need was?reduced thrust but better stability, still pulls quite a lot but not as much as the mirage, just don't get in a a rate fight with it, but that's a well known thing not to do against it, and tbh it's pretty easy to avoid cuz you still have that immense thrust this allowing to use all that vertical whenever you need it, which the gripen cannot do

[@mythic_wolf86]

The mirage 4000 might be a match for the griffon

[@momopirou3107]

well no, he said the best dogfighters are the SU27 anf F16A :D

[@bluefox9436]

Not anymore, since the FM update the Gripen is by far the best dogfighter

[@cristalhalo5357]

The mirage 4k beated the gripen before, it still does and still will it just has the TREMENDOUS amount of thrust paired with delta wing, unbeatable

[@davevoerman2448]

That thing turns like a mf.. also im still dying on the words with ''ed'' at the end hahaha

[@jackmaylor8229]

Is the gripen for the British in the tree yet?

[@nero9974]

nop

[@Wonka1897]

How do you switch from mousse aim to full real without scrolling through simplified and realistic?

[@X32327]

do dogfight with j35d and grippen It would be interesting to see who wins

[@carlosadonayguardadogaleas6150]

Matt is on the Grind ❤

[@podcastler]

poor f15 without his fox3

[@OllieRy321]

Same for Gripen

[@treyfloyd6003]

I cant wait to crap on the su27 in my f15 because people want to do literally the worst maneuver

[@star_lord_2046]

When should we suspect this update ?

[@warthunderclipper]

It’s still good in war thunder, I win all the dogfights against my friends and 9Ms are real good

[@Max-wn7vf]

Amarillo lo platanoooooo

[@castamere3368]

has the mirage 4k flight model been nerfed at all, seems like it was really good but seems to just be getting buff after buff

[@andythesaladgod4578]

Why would they nerf it seems to be quite accurate although I’ve heard it’s still underperforming in some aspects

[@SuperTitoneli]

​@andythesaladgod4578 m4k was underperfoming only in the missiles department but he was kicking literally all jets of the game in the dogfight in the 1st dev server now gaijin gave a decent loadout so in my opinion it's pretty fair to fix his flight and make it similar or slightly worse than the m2k

[@castamere3368]

@@andythesaladgod4578 every plane underperforms in certain aspects, while over performing in others. If we wanted this game to be accurate, no plane should pull more than 10 g's at most

[@daedalos38]

@@SuperTitoneli thing is, it should be better than the M2K's flight model. If a nerf comes, i don't expect it to be huge. As for the missiles Su27 still has an advantage here, and we could even argue some f-15s too, depending on the fox 2 they carry. So it's meta but not game breaking, i think it's fine as it is

[@mocsing6]

Is the Yak-141 still going to be the best dogfighter?

[@cristalhalo5357]

It wasn't what are u talking about

[@mocsing6]

@@cristalhalo5357 ye it was

[@cristalhalo5357]

Oh wait are saying that cuz it can do weird maneuvers thanks to VTOL?

[@mocsing6]

@@cristalhalo5357 yeah

[@BBCRF]

Ahahah. The snail made another UFO, ignoring the laws of aerodynamics

[@pieterdeliho1492]

Rafale vs f-16AJ?

[@lippytheoneguy8968]

Matt if you need help on understanding how to do post stall maneuver's I gotcha. You don't have the correct control set up to do them effectively

[@shminkydinky321]

What do u have to change

[@lippytheoneguy8968]

@@shminkydinky321 mouse control should be set to view rather than mouse joystick. The mouse joystick only makes it harder to control movement in realistic controls

[@lippytheoneguy8968]

Among a few other things

[@TheDougsSB]

Probably will get nerfed again as it's an aircraft from a minor nation and people who play major nations will cry about its dogfighting performance and it will be nerfed. Looking at the gripens older brother, the viggen doesn't even have a correct amount of thrust and any time people prove to gaijin that its wrong they just close the ticket 😂

[@jaydenblain3599]

how about like a j7e or f5e? theyre also super light rate fighters

[@alwinfrisk1482]

Weaker engines, older avionics and worse weapons. Would get done in by the gripen.

[@georgepoli5753]

0:30 HOW THE FUCK THE SU27 IS A GOOD DOGFIGHT PLANE???!!!!!!!!????!!!

[@loganlee2028]

But is the m4k still able to win against it?

[@SuperTitoneli]

By a slightly curve but... yes pretty much, i mean the mirage was winning even against the old gripen's flight model, imagine now with gripen "nerfed".

[@CorneliusTheWizardDog]

Yoooo 1minute in

[@jonathanfarrell14]

great how they nerfed the gripen and not the su27 that load out is too powerful for the game atm

[@thatoneguy1741]

Just wait till you see the other flankers coming in the future 🗿

[@bartole-biker4080]

Stop crying about 27's loadout, what's the difference between it and current 29's loadout of 4x R-73's and 2x R-27ER's? When ARB matches last for a few minutes, amount of missiles you can take won't make any difference becouse you won't be able to use them all

[@dh2tf]

your the reason why some aircraft are under performed

[@Im-getting-shadowbanned]

Yes, too powerful atm, but ficticial nerfs is not the way to go. Gaijin just need to low a bit his bias and give other nations better weapons, many OTAN jets use old weapons like 9G/H/P instead of L/M because time ago on release R73/Mig29 and similar things dont existed.

[@bartole-biker4080]

What are you talking about? All rank 8 USA jets have 9L's or 9M's when russians have R-73's only on SMT. R-60M's are dogshit in toptier belive me

[@Delta-uv6dk]

Thx for this vid, yeah, looks more acccurate than it was xD Btw, is there any way to unlock the vehicles or I've to research and buy them all?

[@ymroo8299]

I think it will be nerfed more, a delta wing maintaining energy is out of question,, Mirage 2k should've been like this or atleast close to this if it was

[@Daakkii]

it has more lift and better thrust to weight ratio than a mirage 2k irl

[@garlic5065]

@@Daakkii The A gripen does not have better thurst-weight than a m2k

[@Daakkii]

@@garlic5065 it just about does. 0.86 vs 0.7. The gripen gets flack for being underpowered in an era where jets were regularly reaching 1.1+ TWR

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@Daakkii where are you getting your thrust-to-weight values from?

[@alwinfrisk1482]

@@aflyingcowboy31 The internet... Google it lol. Also i belive the 0,86 is with a overfueled aircraft. The gripen can supercruise at M1,1 and that says something.

[@vernux5299]

Maybe i doesn't have such big AOE now, but it doesn't loose as much speed as it was in the previous dev server. Not such a terrible trade off tbh

[@prestongarvey2285]

Come on we can’t have a non Russian plane being top tier

[@Boattank]

bro the best dog fighter is m4k then f-16 block10 then gripen

[@pitviper6713]

F14 can still out vertical rate fight it

[@norske_ow3440]

😂😂😂

[@pitviper6713]

@@norske_ow3440 let's meet up in game I'll gladly demonstrate

[@norske_ow3440]

@@pitviper6713 dev server is closed

[@pitviper6713]

when it reopens i duncked on my friend in asu27 in my f14 bravo . people be sleeping on the tom cat @@norske_ow3440

[@nightskyflyer2638]

just like in real life, i came third

[@anotheralpharius2056]

does the gripen still have its like 25% extra thrust?

[@VidZarg]

It has no extra thrust to begin with

[@zzoega]

the 25% extra thrust comes in the Gripen E.

[@CruLisP]

​@@zzoega nope those stats are stationary on wikipedia or in game or on saab forum those are stationary they produce a ton more thrust based on speed and altitude gripen at low fuel easily reach 1.2 t/w gripen E even more over 700km/h

[@zzoega]

@@CruLisP english please

[@norske_ow3440]

@@zzoega IT NEVER HAD TOO MUCH.

[@n0rman908]

To put it into perspective there is a smaller time period between the Gripen and the F-22 than there is for the gripen and the SU-27. It is nonsensical that they added the Gripen at all this patch. The patch that introduces the F-15 (The most successful modern fighter jet of all time introduced to combat units in 1976) and the SU-27 (The plane designed and produced to fight the F-15 introduced to combat units in 1985) is going to have both of them completely overshadowed by the Gripen, an aircraft introduced to combat units in 1996. People really be out here saying "Oh my god man the gripen is soooooo good" yeah no shit. It should be fighting SU-33s, F-15C/Es, Rafales and Eurofighters if they were actually sensible about introduction dates. In a down tier, the Gripen (1996) is going to be going up against the mighty Mig 23 series (1971~). That is a 35 year technology gap.

[@norske_ow3440]

The F-16C added last patch is the 2006+ version, and up till now was at least second if not the best plane in the game. Where was all this hate then? Your reasoning is sound, but why does it only matter now and only with this plane?

[@n0rman908]

@@norske_ow3440 It doesnt, which is why I frequently complain about this. Why does it matter more for the gripen right now? because this update shouldve focused on 2 titans of modern air combat. Not something that is only on their level because of a tech advantage. Additionally that is NOT the 2006+ version lmao. It is missing very important features and weapon systems. That is the 1991 version.

[@MeWhne]

The MiG-29SMT is more modern than the Gripen-A variant. Real life is not fair/balanced and time is not an accurate indicator of performance. Considering the gripen paper stats, I'm surprised it is even performing so well in the current game. Because on paper, the gripen is mediocre at best.

[@norske_ow3440]

@@n0rman908 exactly what year was hmd added to f16c?

[@norske_ow3440]

@@MeWhne what comic book paper are you reading? or just parroting some youtuber?

[@XStep-gh7wm]

Бедную сушку уже начали все перекручивать, обидно наблюдать на то как разработчики прогибаются перед западом, я бы понял против вигена, но против Ф15 и миража....

[@SuperTitoneli]

Ok let's get the facts: 1. F15 needs a buff in his flight model IRL they have a very similar performance with the flankers but beeing a little bit worse in the one circle and a little bit better in the two circle, and should be added at least an datalink fox 1s because those aim7m's just s*cks when compared with russian counterparts. 2. M4K's flight model must to be fixed, that thing was kicking even the old gripen in the df imagine now with this nerf. 3. Mig29's flight model needs to be fixed, it should be better than a flanker in a guns only fight but that's not the case in the game. 4. Gripen it's ok right now, stop crying, that old flight model was ridiculous. 5. Believe or not but Su27 and J11 should be more capable in the one circle department than they are right now.

[@dadolphinplayz]

the f15 had a 7.3G limit cus its wings just deformed and snapped above 9G

[@faq187tim9]

​@@dadolphinplayz That's not true, the 7g limit was only temporary and was upped to 9g in the 80's. The record pull for the F-15 was 14g, and guess what it didn't snap its wings.

[@dadolphinplayz]

@@faq187tim9 the 7g limit was on the f15A up until C variants, the g limit was only raised to 9g on the E and later variants since the E got a stronger air frame which allowed it to pull harder. The variants in war thunder are the A and C which did not have a 9g limit. Pulling harder than the g limit that was set would limit the airframes lifespan or just straight up make it snap

[@faq187tim9]

@dadolphinplayz Again, this is not true, the F-15A in game is the MSIP upgrade from 1983 that upped the G limit to 9G. All of this is easily looked up.

[@faq187tim9]

@dadolphinplayz And secondly most planes can pull well past their G limit without "breaking" but humans can only take so much compression. Also again, the F-15 G record was 14G, this did not snap the wings of the F-15 but did most likely weaken the airframe.

[@planetfun85]

Day 636378282 to ask gaijin to correct the mig 29 flight model.

[@oceanforth21]

farming views must really be taking a toll on your abilities to make thumbnails with competent english eh?

[@dankaloww1067]

Pretty fast. Also your friend is merging improperly. Besides that the Gripens thrust is still overly tuned, it will get significantly nerfed.

[@forester9202]

The jas39s thrust is not over preforming this is the engine it has Volvo RM12 afterburning turbofan engine, 54 kN (12,000 lbf) thrust dry, 80.5 kN (18,100 lbf) with afterburner its under preforming if you look at it ingame it has 7530kg of thrust with Afterburner 700kg lower then it should be 8210kg would be the correct output with Afterburner and 5443kg dry for the RM12 engine

[@bloxzify3576]

Its actually underperforming as of now

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@forester9202 The statcard/xray info doesn't mean anything. i.e. it is not underperforming, it only reaches that 80.5kN in flight i.e. with afterburner. To put this into perspective, the F-16C has the F110-GE-129: 17,155 lbf (76.31 kN) thrust dry (7781 kgf) 29,500 lbf (131 kN) with afterburner (13380 kgf) In game the statcard/xray info states: thrust dry: 6530 kgf Afterburner thrust: 11,060 kgf So according to using the statcard/xray info the F-16C's engine is underperforming by: thrust dry: 1251 kgf Afterburner: 2,320kgf None of the xray info states the "correct figures".

[@aflyingcowboy31]

@@bloxzify3576 no it definitely isn't.

[@EB-Ghost6]

This model is broken, you turn tighter when your faster and turn slower when your slower. It should be opposite

[@nero9974]

D E L T A C A N A R D

[@EB-Ghost6]

@@nero9974 it’s bc of the wings and canards? So it should be like that then?

[@wyattlewis7137]

@@EB-Ghost6 ok so typically the slower you are, the easier you can pivot on your center of mass using your elevators, moving canards change that, you generate upwards "thrust"(Not really thrust more lift) based on your airspeed, so faster= more thrust= faster turn.

[@EB-Ghost6]

@@wyattlewis7137 ohhh

[@CruLisP]

​@@EB-Ghost6 imagine canards as a car front wheel basically you not push your nose up but you pulling it up which gives a very good nose authority

[@ISO-420]

Just keep nerfing 😂 Idek, The aircraft just seems stupid unrealistic. But Idk.

[@norske_ow3440]

Damn right! the real one isn’t even real, Saab is actually a mattress store in Lithuania, Sweden is just a weird abandoned movie set. and delta canards are a failed idea that never took off.

[@ISO-420]

@@norske_ow3440 bruh, So how TF are they gonna make it the best dog fighter 😂.

[@norske_ow3440]

@@ISO-420 magic game code stuffs

[@100DesertRoses]

It's still going to get nerfed even more. The energy retention in a turn should not be this good. While it will still probably be able to make a few incredible high alpha turns, it will bleed all its energy and become a brick at speeds below 400kph

[@GoatGoggy]

I mean it was designed to throw hands with su27s

[@MeWhne]

While a delta wing bleeds more than most other wing configuration, this doesn't necessarily mean that the energy bleeding is extremely high. I haven't really looked at documents citing the flight performance, I doubt it would lose an insane amount of energy in turns, unless you can prove otherwise.

[@muralha49]

Pequeno.. leve ...Asa em delta com canards e curva menos que um su 27...

[@blobys_army77]

2nd

[@ItzDmz]

10th

[@WarDaddy8917]

its still pushing too much power, if this stays like this, imagine an F-18 with 2 of those engines

[@desertrecce5676]

one day we'll have our hornet brother

[@tobberino]

Funny thing is that Sweden gets the F-18 too through Finland

[@teentitanss1845]

It doesn't. It has to little power. 75kn on the ground and 100kn in the air. Too little.

[@desertrecce5676]

@@teentitanss1845 you should look at some performance charts my guy

[@WarDaddy8917]

@@teentitanss1845 Mmmm yes, explain why its able to sustain a 19g pull