Matt Niskanen Explodes the Penguins | Weird Stories of Hockey

[@Kryptekah]

I’m sorry, but this video is terrible. Pittsburgh traded the #31st selection and Sundqvist for Ryan Reeves and the #51st selection. It was 20 spots difference in the draft. No mention of this whatsoever. Keep trying to push narratives. Great video quality however, you can do great things.

[@AvsJoe]

I have the same complaint. It always annoys me a little when someone contextualizes this trade as "1st for Reaves!!!" rather than the truer context of "a drop from a late 1st to a mid 2nd + a prospect for Reaves". It's still an awful trade and the subsequent trade of Gustafsson and the pick that became Miller was even worse, the video is still an excellent way to spend 10 minutes, but it is yet another example of a "1st for Reaves!!!" contextualization.

[@PinholesGraham]

@Kryptekah 20 spots out of the late first round is still a big hop...and 20 spots can be the difference between Tage Thompson (26) and Givani Smith (46, both from the prior year's draft). You *might* not be losing a guaranteed top prospect, but that's not something you chance on a player like Reaves, *especially* considering the weak reason Rutherford wanted him in the first place. And besides, the point of the video is that the Reaves trade was a stepping stone to stuff a lot worse, not that it was the worst thing ever.

[@mattgauthier7216]

L comment

[@oakley22610]

Klim Kostin is more than a Ryan Reaves better than poor Zach Lauzon. That's before involving Sundqvist.

[@PinholesGraham]

@@oakley22610 Love your vids, man!

[@NorthernKnights]

Yes, this is true. But as a wise yinzer named Tree once said, The real boogeyman in JRs head was Tom Wilson. Great Video man!

[@cewlttya7738]

rangers made the same mistake on reaves lmao

[@NorthernKnights]

@@cewlttya7738 true

[@manzac112]

Got to chase that high, Jimmy.

[@PinholesGraham]

I just watched that video for the first time...idk man he mentions the Niskanen hit and all of a sudden it's "Wilson, Wilson" but he never ties (or tries to) anything Wilson did to Rutherford's decisions. I think the Niskanen-Crosby incident was way more of a direct boogeyman than Wilson. Granted, Wilson was more Rutherford's boogeyman *after* all this, especially when it came to Jamie Oleksiak.

[@JIMBOCOMMANDO]

The sad part is they didn’t even had to trade for reaves they already had Tom sestito in the minors lol

[@AvsJoe]

For the record, the Vincent Dunn the Pens traded for is NOT the Vince Dunn currently lighting it up on the Kraken blue line, he was a forward with the same name, kind of like the two Sebastian Ahos. He mostly stuck in the ECHL before calling it quits during the pandemic.

[@milesbaillie1011]

Good to know. I was wondering how that happened lol

[@danielsavitz5774]

Great video! I can't wait for the follow-up episode, "Radko Gudas Explodes the Maple Leafs"

[@neeltheother2342]

Reavo 2: Bertuzzi Boogaloo

[@-EJ-]

So basically, Niskanen’s muscle memory kicking in *might* have been the reason we won the cup in 2018?

[@countof3everybodyOD]

Don’t think he meant to lambast Crosby but still not completely letting him off the hook on my book.

[@Goldie2831]

I remember seeing this event live on TV, what a crazy moment, it’s crazy to imagine how much has changed as a result to that. Great work!!

[@chrisuncleahmad666]

An idea for a future Playoffs Past…… 1994 Bruins/Canadiens It marked the last time a team from Canada went into the playoffs as defending Stanley Cup champions, the end of a run in which MTL/BOS faced off 10 times in 11 years in the playoffs, the first year of the beloved 1-8 playoff format, and the final time these teams met in a postseason series at the Montreal Forum/Boston Garden It was the end of the rivalry’s golden era

[@michaelchernjawski4908]

As a Rangers fan I had no idea K’Andre Miller was anywhere in this stratosphere

[@jackhealey5088]

If we're also talking about absolute trade fleecings of the time, the Rangers acquired the Miller pick from Ottawa for a later 1st-round pick and a 3rd or 4th (tbh I don't remember). That later first round pick wasn't theirs initially: they acquired Matt Beleskey, Ryan Spooner (soon flipped for Ryan Strome), Ryan Lindgren, and that late first-rounder used to trade up for K'Andre Miller, for a combined 25 games of Rick Nash at 50% retained salary.

[@ruttepii8390]

@@jackhealey5088 Not to mention the Sens only had Brassard on their roster because of the infamous Zibanejad and a 2nd for Brassard and a 7th deal two seasons earlier

[@ericksheldon3870]

I just KNOW you had a blast making this. I can totally imagine you just smiling from ear to ear with a shit-eating grin while making a video about the downfall of your nemesis. Great stuff as always, Pinholio Grammarman.

[@willd1790]

reminds me of how the Rangers dismantled themselves in response to Tom Wilson. Or early in the decade when Marc Bergevin got spooked by losing a line brawl to Ottawa during the 2013 playoffs (a series they lost in 5 mainly due to Craig Anderson) and signed a bunch of tough guys to the Habs

[@theawayfan6052]

Excellent video as usual. Keep up the fantastic work man, always looking forward to the next video! Still hyped for that 08' Wings Vs Preds video

[@KiloOne]

It’s worth noting Zachary Lauzon only never played a game outside of juniors because of lingering concussion issues that forced him to retire. Sad story, really. Dude tried everything to come back but nothing worked

[@xViperGTR]

Jim Rutherford and Ron Hextall effectively demolished this team together

[@xViperGTR]

Something tells me though that Ron Hextall purposely did it

[@FUCKTHEFASCISTSCONTROLLINGYT]

​@@xViperGTRI didn't want to believe that, but ...I swear man... not much that he did makes any sense and so much was just terrible.

[@strats991]

Great video, sir! More of this and the 1/2h Playoffs series breakdowns. I love those!

[@matthewrasero2349]

This is fantastic. Every video you've put out has perfectly captivayed me and my interest in hockey. Keep up the great work.

[@PinholesGraham]

Thank you for the kind words, Matthew! :)

[@wej4life]

Rangers trading away Brassard a year or so ahead of this was their best deal since the McDonagh-Gomez trade. Brassard was good for NYR but the return ultimately made them what they became now, including K'Andre Miller entering his prime years on reasonable money. I disagree that the Reeves trade wasn't good for VGK. Reeves knows his role, which is to be a face puncher and a good locker room guy. That's exactly what he delivered throughout his VGK tenure, in an area where they were lacking at the time. This whole thing was ultimately only bad for the Pens for all the reasons mentioned. Great video as always. I hope there's more of these trade tree/butterfly effect type of topics in the future.

[@lbyerly1]

I love me a good trade tree video. Said it best at the end too. They didn’t need to do it, they already won two cups with who they had. Awesome stuff

[@ariccua6101]

Also, Gustavsson now plays with former Pens goalie Marc André Fleury in Minnesota.

[@LSA30]

Expecting the channel to be renamed Pinholio Grahammerman anytime now😂

[@N7Sovik]

I really want an Erik Karlsson Sharks video now similar to this. Picking EK65 over Pavelski still hurts as a sharks fan to this very day

[@peytonturnage362]

This is my new favorite TED Talk.

[@MDToboggan]

I wouldn't say that Matt Nisakanen was the reason for these moves. That Nisakanen play was just a freak accident and hockey play, the reason they made those moves was because of Wilson who was crushing and hurting a lot of the Penguins players and they didn't have a single player that could stand up to him. If they wanted to deal with Nisakanen they would have, but they couldn't because they would have to answer to Wilson. Reaves was supposed to be the Penguins answer to Wilson and the penguins aren't the only team in the division to do this. The Rangers acquired Reaves to be an answer to Wilson after Wilson injured their best players. The issue is Wilson is a productive top 6 forward so having to put Reaves out there against the Capitals top 6 is way more of a liability so it just never worked.

[@countof3everybodyOD]

Anyone could have stood up to him. That they didn’t is another issue

[@impulse_xs]

At the time, I was surprised that the Pens didn’t attempt to trade for Wayne Simmonds at the trade deadline. He was on the final year of his contract in Philly and would’ve gotten an opportunity to play on a perennial finals contender. Simmonds proved he could more than hold his own against Wilson multiple times and actually seemed to have the edge when they fought. More importantly he was also a more productive offensive player and a better goal scorer than Reeves or Wilson.

[@Gabeghouls]

Fascinating that on three separate occasions now Ryan Reaves was brought into a team specifically for toughness and protection, and all three times it’s been an absolute bust. In Vegas and Minnesota, it seems like he just got to do his own thing, and had better success for it.

[@ryangatien-5013]

I actually love your vids bro❤️

[@dawgmane2722]

Will you make one of these about the Tom Wilson fight with panarin from couple years back. Can’t remember exactly when just remember Wilson flexing in the box and all news outlets saying that he crumbled the rangers. Now look at those ranger. Fantastic team

[@akirafromwiisports]

babe wake up pinholes graham posted

[@jeromethomasss]

Another great video. Was wondering if you could cover the 2012 Flyers/Penguins series in your next video. 👍👍

[@countof3everybodyOD]

Can we skip that one? Jagr’s come home. Let’s let sleeping dogs lie lol

[@HorseTeethModano]

As a Pens fan I say this trade is worth it simply for the video of Reaves scaring Phil Kessel in his hotel room.

[@andrewpetyak7875]

This is in broad strokes, but a little context is missing. I think the general theme of Rutherford randomly wanting a tough guy is spot on (although it was definitely a response to Tom Wilson and not this random event with Niskanen), but I think its part of a greater picture that Rutherford completely abandoned his understanding of what made the team a champion: playing fast and scoring on all four lines. Reaves was such a counter to this, but what also was is that with just a little bit more money, they could have re-signed Bonino. The team basically spent a good part of a decade hemorrhaging assets to replace Bonino--all of which could be turned into players producing on the Penguins today. Maybe those guys help them get out of the first round. Brassard is an example of this. Sheahan. The florida trade continued this. Mccain. Carter. Now were at eller. For crying out loud, the Penguins center group went from Crosby, Malkin, Bonino, Cullen to C+M...and then Greg McKegg and Derek Grant.... because Rutherford wanted toughness. To me, thats the the big picture. The team discovering an identity, winning, and then inconspicuously making moves that abandon said identity. The problem being, the coaching philosophy and style remained the same, but the team replaced a bunch of ferraris with mixed and matched civics and old pick ups. Hextall further morphed the identity of the team and made it even more vague. Dubas came in, brought a bunch of speed and rush players to bring it back to what made sullivans system effective....but the team kept losing playing that way because the bottom 6 wasnt talented enough and the league caught up to that style a long time ago. So, now the penguins are basically trapping and counter attacking their way to victory (well, in the games they actually stayed disciplined and execute this gameplan). Funny enough, Reaves would probably be a good fit in the 23-24 penguins...then not so much.

[@PinholesGraham]

This is mostly really spot on - as I mention at the end of the video, the Penguins got Reaves and his skillset AFTER they won two cups...so they never really needed him, as he was one fewer roster spot that fit the Sullivan formula, and obviously Rutherford compounded the error later. The only thing I disagree with is that Tom Wilson is the catalyst. Everyone says that, but what did he do to this point? He was part of a line brawl in 2014-15 (after he got dragged into the bench), and he knee'd Sheary that one time...but nothing nearly as impactful to the Penguins' sense of security than Niskanen/Crosby incident. When Rutherford traded for Reaves, it was my impression that both the Pittsburgh and Washington media quietly understood that this was happening NOW because of that hit.

[@countof3everybodyOD]

@@PinholesGrahamtbh I don’t think it matter whether Niskanen or Wilson is more to blame, your assessment of what Rutherford’s reaction did is spot on

[@db-pl5yu]

As a pens fan, you should make another video of Hextall and that whole shitshow.

[@slapshotsports7008]

I was at the game when Brassard scored his first goal as a Penguin

[@themanwiththegoldengooch9811]

Great video man

[@mattgauthier7216]

The Niskanen hit was kind of just a sad accident. I believe that JR made these moves to get bigger so that his team couldnt get bullied by Tom Wilson.

[@jconsolmagno]

Correct

[@Pensfan5919]

Yeah, this hit was the start, but the Zach Aston-Reese shoulder was the true catalyst. As for the hit on Crosby itself? A clean hit. It comes down to when Niskanen launches, and it's before Crosby started falling. It isn't even the dirtiest hit on Crosby by a Capital.

[@PinholesGraham]

But the ZAR hit happened after everything in this video, so how can it be the catalyst? And yeah, David Steckel comes to mind when it comes to bad hits on Crosby from a Capital...fortunately despite missing a lot of games in his 20s, Crosby was still the best player in the world when he was playing.

[@arefriendselectricc]

I had no idea that small injury would sink this team damn

[@Mute14_]

I'm pretty certain Niskanen played for the Penguins at some point before this too... oof

[@isthatrubble]

tbh I was really surprised that wasn't mentioned in this video

[@tsaageotrimm]

fantastic vid!

[@davidshayayev7167]

BABE WAKE UP PINEHOLES GRAM UPLOADED

[@NESADDICT]

Wow amazing video!

[@JakeJ.-yi1du]

I'd like to point out that the 2017 first round pick that Pittsburgh gave up to get Reeves was 31st overall (dead last as cup winners). That turned into Klim Kostin who had 1 good year for the Oilers and now is on his 4th organization as a 25 year old and was most recently traded to San Jose for a 31 year old minor leaguer Radim Simek and a 7th round pick. So I'd don't know about Pittsburgh getting fleeced on that deal.

[@PinholesGraham]

I said it was a headscratcher. Never said they got fleeced.

[@mournfuldragon7660]

Wake up babe new pinholes graham video :D

[@andrewhavens5685]

I was at that game. Atmosphere was fantastic, but after Crosby went down there was a bad feeling in the air. Ugh

[@brandensimmons653]

Tree video said it best about Jim he caused destruction

[@Pilsnerenjoyer]

Imagining how Crosbys prime was ripped away from him from head injuries now

[@TheBillaro]

how did you make the graphic /timeline

[@TheDan14]

i remember a slight feeling that brassard was looking like his rookie year pre injury self that year and feeling like the rich got richer when pit got him; as a flyers fan i was glad to be wrong

[@PinholesGraham]

One thing I guess I didn't make clear enough...the first Reaves trade wasn't good, but it wasn't atrocious. It was the second (with Brassard) that was *awful*. I make the big point around 6:31 - Vegas would probably not have made that trade if they were only getting a 4th-liner, as opposed to an enforcer. So, *directly downstream of PIT getting Reaves, which was already dicey enough, OTT was able to fleece them* , ensuring a massive loss of assets as well as little to no ROI from Reaves. It's less a judgement of the trades and more an analysis of the domino effect.

[@kvltntr00]

"mom, can we get a jon bois?" "we already have jon bois at home" jon bois at home:

[@countof3everybodyOD]

He’s better than Jon bois People love Jon bois because he reaffirms their worldview

[@bronson8232]

Penguins moved down 20 spots and gave up a fringe at best NHL player at the time for Reaves. Was it a good trade? definitely not. Was Reaves worth a first round pick? No because St Louis gave up a 2nd as well.

[@KaiserChef]

And clearly this strategy isnt paying out well for the leafs at the current point 5 years onward. What a progression we've seen from Ryan Reeves.

[@ariccua6101]

Wasn't Niskanen a Pen at some point?

[@swy334]

The first round pick was last in the round and the second was high. Sunqvist rarely played any games so the reaves trade was a non issue

[@logginginvids]

I don’t know about a non issue. Sundqvist was great for St Louis especially on the cup run.

[@Mach141]

Yeah, they were never "shopping Reeves", terrible word paly. They only gave him up because Vegas insisted they wanted him, and it was the only way to get Brassard, who Rutherford had a hard on for. I belive if Reeves would have stuck around, it would have been a decent trade overall. Giving him away for Brassard was the bad move.

[@RIPJimmyA7X]

Talk about a knee jerk reaction to something completely insignificant lol

[@FoleysBetter]

A first round pick isn’t the same as a pick swap

[@ummm]

imagining society if this jim treliving could see this

[@CetolaREO]

You called bing the best in the game, someone who has never had 50 goals and make miller out to be Jordan still love the vids, just a little feedback

[@AvsJoe]

K'Andre Miller isn't a superstar or anything, sure, but he's already a pretty damn good player who's worth being highlighted as the Pens' big loss. He probably won't be a Hall of Famer but there's no reason he can't hit the levels of, say, Andre Markov or Brian Rafalski or Brent Seabrook. Miller's got a great career ahead of him.

[@footfungus6226]

Watch the next video say “How David Steckls hit ruined the penguins” This is obviously a joke so don’t take it personally if only I couldn’t say that but it’s 2023

[@benjaminmiller788]

That draft pick may have become K'andre Miller but Sully still wouldn't have played him.

[@colinhull4507]

Oh hey wouldn’t it be funny if Vegas then proceeded to get rid of Reaves to the Rangers, who then got a pick used to draft a pretty decent prospect in Nick Moldenhauer, and then also *win the cup the season after they moved him* And wouldn’t it be funny if now with him off the roster the Rangers look functional?

[@kelseywhitlatch173]

So they didn’t win their 2nd cup in a row in year 2017? 5th all time? News to me. Rutherford is hard to bash when he won two cups and the expansion draft ruined the could be dynasty. Not these trades.

[@Supernova2464]

I-I-I think I’m a little late, oops

[@Sleeper_productions]

Ive seen some delusional videos. And this is certainly a shit tier level post. This could easily be a troll video but going this in depth to explain why matt niskanen injuring crosby (during a stanley cup championship winning run) is really bottom of the barrel stuff

[@PinholesGraham]

Thanks for the watch time and algo bump! A true king 🤜🤛