SECRET WARS (2015) - Finding Life at the End of the Marvel Universe

[@MattDraper]

Read the full essay on Comic Book Herald! www.comicbookherald.com/secret-wars-believing-everything-lives/

[@arthur4350]

I see you used the quotes in Doom's tvtropes page. Fun fact, I added them in.

[@benparrish672]

Bendis wrote something that sux, shocking!

[@aisnota5192]

I find it funny that the Justice League of Earth 12 handled a similar situation without all the needless deaths.

[@aisnota5192]

And then Marvel went into a downward spiral culminating in Secret Empire. Never to recover. Seriously, have a drink every time there's a fight between heroes. It's depressingly bad. DC knows better than to do this and they have a whole line of bad movies.

[@JohnTLyon]

So glad I found this channel! Would love to see a retrospective of Chris Bachalo's work.

[@OneDoomedGameCritic]

"I don't count Bendis' Ultimate End miniseries, it blows." The only review it deserves.

[@zekramnordran9526]

just out of curiosity, whats with this Bendis person?

[@OneDoomedGameCritic]

@@zekramnordran9526 Brian Michael Bendis, he was a writer for Marvell that did some legitimately great runs. Then, for whatever reason, his output quality started to degrade overtime. Now, he's not a exactly held in high esteem.

[@zekramnordran9526]

@@OneDoomedGameCritic I heard he did stuff for DC as well

[@qwellen7521]

@@OneDoomedGameCritic He kept getting put big event and cosmic stuff; which is really not his strong suit as a writer. I will always respect him for creating Jessica Jones and Mile Morales among others; But he kept writing stories played against his strengths; not towards them. I really wish after marvel he had just done smaller IMAGE books, probably would have been better for him as creator.

[@srstriker6420]

One Doomed Game Critic what about Ultimatum?

[@JoshuaSkaar]

Secret Wars was phenomenal. This is easily my favorite modern Marvel event comic and the one that made me really wish they'd stop doing annual events and just let the event settle for a bit. The Ms. Marvel tie-in comic for this had me in tears when she found the batch of kittens she knew she couldn't save from the universe collapsing.

[@陳潔明-w6y]

It also should've been the last chapter of Marvel, period...

[@billymccrary2246]

​@@陳潔明-w6y I can agree and than they would possibly reboot their mainstream universe instead.

[@ChuckD008]

Secret Wars was easily one of the best Events of the past decade. Hickman was building to it for YEARS with his Avenger/New Avengers run. Some real planning was put into it, as opposed to just forcing events in for money & "shock value" that "changes things forever" (*cough* Civil War 2*cough* Secret Empire*cough*) The tie-ins also were more just fun extras then necessary-to-read, which can rarely be said. And they too also had ramifications (like bringing Old Man Logan to post-Secret Wars)

[@dn22pkkdd476]

The Tie-ins also allowed writers total flexibility to tell some unique stories that were not tied down to current continuity or forced to bend to their series to the outcome of the event itself. Like if every series was a "what-If" but bigger. Deadpool writers were able to flesh out Shiklah in Mrs. Deadpool , Hopeless was able to play around in the Inferno, Dan Slott was able to create a Spider-man story about a married Parker finally growing up and having a family (even if the last issues Almost didn't stick the landing), Spider-verse was stupid fun, Spider-Island was an awesome Agent Venom story showcasing how interesting Flash Thompson was, Plant Hulk got Warrior Cap and Devil Dinosaur, Bendis actually wrote a compelling Old Man Logan story, We got Wacky Racers with Ghost Riders, an actually good Civil War sequel with Civil War, E For Extinction channeling Morrison's X-Men vibe to create something new, Dustin Weaver drawing his ass off and creating a beautifully grounded cosmic marvel story with Infinity Gauntlet, And Garth Ennis giving Absolutely NO FUCKS about Superheroes and just doing his own dark humor, pulp book, thing with Where Monsters Dwell. I wish more comic run's were like this.

[@colinmiller1130]

Always loved the Fantastic Four getting the spotlight in this-they’re such an underrated team!

[@mr.sand7899]

This is the perfect ending to the Marvel Universe. For me this is how the Marvel Universe ends.

[@Mark-td6wh]

Did you quit reading after? Curious

[@mr.sand7899]

@@Mark-td6wh it felt like so final I guess I could say. And a lot after just didn't interest me. There has been some good stuff after Secret Wars like Nick Spencers Spider Man, Immortal Hulk, and Dan Slots Fantastic Four. But they are never gonna top Secret Wars in terms of events or storytelling.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

I feel like they should’ve rebooted the Marvel Universe

[@danieladusei1993]

@@comixproviderftw_02 Yo u have no idea I been saying that for years reboot the marvel comics from issue 1 I bet they will have some great stories to tell

[@chrismaystar3014]

@@danieladusei1993 But then what would happen to franchises that require the existence of a prior series (i.e. Ms. Marvel, Miles Morales Spider-Man, Deadpool, literally every X-Men spin-off that was successful enough to be continued)? Quick Edit: I still believe you have a point, it's just that I believe they're a little too deep in now.

[@eriklomonaco5165]

Hickman at his finest, my favorite marvel writer

[@starseeker3002]

Honestly this event was the perfect finale for the entire marvel comic line. Bringing an end to decades of stories and character development in such a satisfying and meaningful way. Chef kiss

[@alejandrogonzalez00]

3:08 I love this internal dialogue Reeds having in that moment it’s both heartbreaking and haunting at the same time especially after he talks about Victor and we get that quick glimpse of his mask 3:30 man I love that part

[@Danial_Duval]

Surprisingly, the one that embraced the potential of all new Marvel was Bendis' Superior Iron Man where Doom tries to "expand" from his previous preconceptions and tries to become a more altruistic person. The trials and tribulations that he encounters in his journey was intriguing especially when everyone (even the readers) either do not believe in his change or were anticipating his fall back to villainy. Ben Grimm became his nemesis to embody that feeling and eventually everyone was proven right. Despite Reed's best efforts, neither he nor Doom can escape the status quo.

[@zanerobbins3794]

I think you mean infamous iron man?

[@kingmoneilius7777]

@@zanerobbins3794 he does

[@TupocalypseShakur]

Secret Wars 2015, comic events peaked so hard they can only go down

[@DevonPalmer98]

Marvel events peaked for me with this event, every event after just doesn’t hit the same

[@MattDraper]

They definitely haven't made another event that has reached Secret Wars' level since.

[@aec111100]

Agreed

[@TevyaSmolka]

Matt Draper agreed

[@alejandrogonzalez00]

Cause you just can’t go wrong with Jonathan Hickman

[@Grogu_CA01]

@@MattDraper even the lead up to this with his FF, Avengers, and New Avengers were amazing.

[@RojoDawg31]

I really like the idea of the big crunch just a constant state of rebirth. Also the inclusion of the different ways the universe will end makes the overall theme of the story come through. Great video Matt!

[@pudlordtynan919]

I love the different interpretations of last days of reality, it was very touching, weirdly. Doctor Doom is a fascinating character indeed. Truly complex and exciting. One thing that has always eluded me is his voice. I have trouble imagining voices whilst reading, and with how much I enjoy Doom, I've never had a definitive voice for him. Would he be dignified? Raspy? Sound like Palpatine? Hannibal Lecter? Would he have an accent? It's always a struggle.

[@JTR_3]

Pudlord Tynan it would have an European accent, I imagine it slightly vibrating against the metal mask

[@dreamchaser3468]

Just use the voice from The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes

[@thefancasthub6862]

When I read Dr. Doom, his voice is Mads Mikkelsen’s.

[@Dracullina]

I can't really think of any other voice for Victor than the excellent Lex Lang's, whom played the role in Earth's Mightiest Heroes and the now defunct but lovely MMO Marvel Heroes Omega.

[@blakecunningham4086]

Secret Wars is by far my favorite marvel event and this video is by far my favorite on the site. Keep up the great work!

[@nigelmapson]

Highly recommend you take a look at B-mask fantastic four retrospective as it covers the specific built up of this event as far back as ff 1st appearance and the impact the team had on the universe in general

[@MaskedMask920]

It is an amazing video that puts my feelings for the FF into much more coherent words than “AWWMSHGAWD I LOVE THEM!”

[@DzustComics]

This is my favorite event ever! My favorite villain gaining ultimate power and actually trying to do good with it, only to be undone na his own hubris yet again. No wonder this books rules! 😍

[@TevyaSmolka]

Secret wars in my opinion is a good marvel event and tons of fun however it’s the aftermath of the event that really annoyed me because nothing came out of this event but that’s just my opinion

[@BashkimJahiu]

That's not Hickman's fault, since he was going to Marvel after Secret Wars. It's Marvel's fault for not doing anything with it. The aftermath of this event shouldn't diminish the quality of this story, since Hickman had nothing to do with it. But yeah, I get what you're saying.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@BashkimJahiu i know and like i said i don't blame hickman for the aftermath of secret wars far from it, in fact i blame more marvel editorial and their bullshit once again for not letting hickman do his original ending with the marvel universe having a clean slate and a fresh start.

[@dantecrottogini529]

i feel the same way but at least we got Al Ewing's Ultimate's run out of it, that was terrific. Also Coate's run on Black Panther does reference Hickman's run and it feels like a natural progression of the character

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@dantecrottogini529 indeed and i agree Al ewings ultimate's run after secret wars was fantastic and badass unfortunately other writers like bendis for his awful awful civil war 2 crap ignored that story and basically screwed everything up badly.

[@TevyaSmolka]

Daredevil Lebron true marvel comics is a mix bag at best however I do agree with you there are good and bad marvel comics being released by the company and j also agree the writers you recommend are really good but are also capable of writing bad stories too.

[@SuperMan-wb1ww]

This is the best explained video on secret wars you can't find this detailed explanation about secret wars anywhere in youtube.😍😍

[@SnapperChannel]

I have not finished Hickman’s epic story (got through most of the Fantastic Four solo stuff) but I can honestly say I’m stoked to finish these at some point. Great video once again

[@azzystillborne9125]

I remember getting the poster, thinking the design of miles and cap were so fucking epic, to this day that shit makes me feel something special

[@kickass3100]

Avengers: No Surrender ain’t half bad

[@michaelmcfarland1716]

So basically Marvels version of Crisis on Infinite Earths? Sounds right. Great concept to completely reboot the whole company, but both dc and marvel were too scared to completely follow through.

[@brendondellinger355]

This is why the MCU needs the Fantastic Four. Hopefully this time done justice.

[@loremtoastum]

I absolutely love the way you structured this essay! Great work as usual

[@johnathonhaney8291]

I can see why you loved Secret Wars so much, now that you've broke it down. Despair is easy, so easy that too many people lapse into it without a second thought. Hope is much harder, requires work and discipline. Call me old-fashioned but I find the latter a lot agreeable as an option. And for all his dark storytelling, it would seem Hickman was arguing the same in Secret Wars.

[@BlueBoboDoo100]

I LOVED this event. I bought so many of the tie-in series too. There were so many great moments: Doom slaughtering the cabal, the Thor Corps, Star Lord revealing that the toothpick was from Groot and then planting it in Yggdrasil. And that ending with Reed healing Doom's face is perfect

[@xiphos21]

You’re the best comic book essay channel in the game man

[@MattDraper]

Thank you!

[@themarveluniverseonline]

While not a fan of this Secret Wars iteration, your enthusiasm for it is undeniable. Very well done.

[@Karls_Clips]

Thanks for covering this incredible event. I will say it definitely needs to be read from the fantastic four run, through the avengers run to get secret wars to feel satisfying. I am now a big hickman fan after his f4 run.

[@Sousabird]

Hey Thanos, have you heard of "Mortal Kombat"?

[@MattDraper]

F A T A L I T Y

[@alejotomasortega547]

It's amazing the amount of love, respect and understanding that Hickman's has for the Fantastic Four. More than even marvel itself (or marvel directives tbh) had/has for them right now. Excelent video as always! Given that you made secret wars, I would love for you to do a video on Infinite Crisis!

[@Iwillone]

My favorite Marvel event hands down

[@jonathan3264]

This was actually the last event that has ever amazed me, after Infinity and the incursion stuff that came after. Imo 2015 was the last good year before they went for terrible comics and events (if I’m more honest on a scale, the late 2000s started to falter as much as bad comics pump out each year and decade), some which were good and some terribly planned. Love this video and sums up my thoughts after looking up your name on YT.

[@SuperSilver316]

this needs an omnibus

[@cameronh225]

It’s cool coming here after the MCU just announced Secret Wars

[@marvelprince]

Thanks for this. Secret Wars was hugely epic, I loved the ride from buildup to climax. I agree that I wish they did a better job with the post Secret Wars multiverse. Outside of bringing over Miles and a few other concepts they pretty much just right the ground like nothing happened afterwards.

[@therussiancomicbookgeek]

Wonderful story

[@superby1]

Love these videos, Matt! While I’m mainly a DC guy, I enjoy the Marvel, IDW, Image, etc videos. They let me see another side of the comics industry and this video was no exception. Excellent work!

[@AkiRie-bi3ek]

I remember following Hickman's work at Marvel because of how fun it was. Like I wasn't a fan of it but it was always fun to read but Secret Wars blow my mind away. Like not only the 9 issue story but how everything with Time's Run Out, New Avengers, Avengers, Fantastic 4 and events like Infinity start to come together. Everything leading into this and all ending in a battle bewteen Doom and Richard (Doom being one of my favorite characters ever). To me, this is the best mega event in comic history. Thank you for doing this vid man, is great.

[@陳潔明-w6y]

Secret Wars should have been the final episode of Marvel comics...

[@BigT4489]

You're videos are always stellar. Reminds me how much I love Secret Wars and should re-read it. The marvel event to end all events I think.

[@darkerknight7010]

Making this an honest reboot would’ve been the right move and delivered on the potential.

[@Mark-td6wh]

Glad I found you through your Hellboy videos! You get it.

[@Smellmonger]

I cried reading Secret Wars. And I never cry. So...

[@jamespatricks5140]

I wasn't crazy about this event when it first came out but this has given me a new apreciation of the event, thanks

[@ZorroinArkham]

I had no idea this was even happening in comics if only I had known back then.

[@kevrulz06]

Never read the actual story, but I love the idea of it, especially it all coming down to Reed and Doom. Unfortunately, this really was the beginning of the end for Marvel. The greatest missed opportunity in company history. A chance to end continuity, start fresh. But, you explained all that. I'm sure that looking at post Secret Wars Marvel, an era that we all know fans hate based on sales numbers, and many "controversial" KZbinrs having made money talking about for YEARS, I wouldn't be surprised if many Marvel fans consider Secret Wars the end of Marvel continuity in their own head canon. Thank God Rebirth came not too long after!

[@smashmaster521]

I wouldn't listen to those "controversial" KZbinrs. Except for Micah Curtis, since he actually knows what he's talking about. As for me, War of the Realms is where I left the ship, mainly because it wrapped up Jason Aaron's Thor run beautifully.

[@kylecarter1599]

Fantastic Four 700 just came out and is actually a focus on Doom that highlights how he is own worst enemy and i think that would make a great video

[@YouCallThataKnife253]

I hope you know you're my favorite comics related KZbinr

[@person14876]

Are you gonna make a video on transformers MTMTE or immortal hulk part 2

[@TheGeekyAmreeki]

Another banger as always. I am really shocked at how many of these you can put out at such a high level of quality. Nice voices too.

[@MattDraper]

Thanks! I got a head start on a few of these so that was super helpful.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

Secret Wars is a amazing event and also one the best Doctor Doom stories of all time (alongside triumph and torment and books of doom). I really hope that, now that Marvel has the rights for the Fantastic Four, they eventually adapt this story in the MCU, with Doctor Doom as "the new Thanos" the heroes would need to defeat.

[@mayotango1317]

Thanos is a leftist pussy, Doctor Doom is the best.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

@@mayotango1317 comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/god-doom-kills-thanos-3.jpg?w=640

[@陳潔明-w6y]

Doom should be morally grey...

[@mayotango1317]

@The Goddamn Batman The Jim Starlin Thanos is so deep and real.

[@fernandoluna6589]

Great event great vídeo matt

[@johnshepard1904]

I've read the Hickman's Avengers omnibus volume 1 and 2 and Secret Wars, I have to say you nailed the main points of the final (Secret Wars) story arc very well. Thank you.

[@nachoprime9649]

You should read hickmans f4 as well

[@johnshepard1904]

@@nachoprime9649 I've heard great things about it, but I can't find his run on (omnibus form) the Fantastic Four in a reasonable price. I will buy them when they become available.

[@Roboheart1119]

Excellent video

[@ginofrancejr555]

Awesome review MORE HICKMAN REVIEWS

[@noampresnete8677]

the video was incredible!

[@salemandfriends]

The visuals in this comic are amazing

[@randalldowling1068]

I have a few issues with your commentary, but you earned a thumbs up with "Ultimate End blows." That was hilarious and 100% correct.

[@ana-dv7jb]

I'll be honest I wasn't a fan of this event when it came out but this video gave me a new appreciation of it

[@sebastienvondoom8615]

Damn, I actually really needed this video. Thank you, Matt.

[@nickasaro8789]

This to me is one of the best events ever. And should have been the final Fantastic Four and Doom story.

[@lightknight6749]

This is awesome

[@joeclarke7982]

Fantastic video. Id love to see you cover the Books of Doom at some point or even some classic Deadpool. Cant wait for your next upload.

[@nikomiller]

I really think the only series that really tried to not ignore Secret Wars (except series about characters from other universes being in 616) was Ewing's Ultimates. Molecule Man and The Maker play a vital part in that run and there were some changes to the universe as the Marvel world knew it. But it never got the attention it deserved and some of the developments (Lifebringer Galactus) had to be restored once again later.

[@mandeepkumarray9050]

What is reeds character , can mcu fill in with hope. Like He believes in hope , even when everyone tells you theirs nothing you can do , in the end theirs always a way.

[@ramiroviana2523]

Great video! Please, make a video talking about Iron Man: Demon in a Bottle

[@rosesweetcharlotte]

I loved not knowing what was going to happen! That first issue just about killed me and all the tie-ins were lovely

[@trippytimesjosh355]

With Halloween approaching, and the surprise hit that was Marvel's Werewolf by Night. I'd love to see you do a video on Marvels history of horror and monster characters/comics. Man-thing is probably my favorite new MCU character. Hypes for Blade & hopefully The Midnight Suns!! (Side note) Secret Wars: Weirdworld limited series tie-in is an overlooked & underappreciated MASTERPIECE!! The artwork alone is breathtaking and I love the inclusion of obscurities like Arkon, Man-thing(s), Morgan Le Fey, Crystarr, among others. Not to mention the bizarre and unique creatures and beings of Weirdworld (Dragons being fished out the sky with giant puffer-fish, Water Apes, Barbarians, Magma men, Wizards, giant eyeball people and so ever shifting landscapes. I just recently read the Death of Doctor Strange: Strange Academy tie in. Feat. Enchantress and her twin sons in Weirdworld... Loved it, hope to see more. And especially hope for it's inclusion in the MCU during Secret Wars.

[@vitdmilk5466]

Gosh I love your videos.

[@user-mj6zg8hh9h]

Your videos are the best!

[@Ashguy733]

The Marvel 2 in One stories with The Thing and Human Torch were great to read in the aftermath of this event and did great development for Ben, Johnny and Doom, so I am glad at least Zdarsky tried to use this event to his advantage.

[@andrewsanchez4906]

I think this is what they're building to now 10+ years in the making moonkight and Dr strange 2 and just baby steps in that direction

[@sebastienvondoom8615]

GOD EMPEROR DOOM

[@antoninbaklouti3307]

I would love to get a Secret Wars omnibus with all the Hickman omnibus from Marvel

[@UltimateLegoFan324]

In 20 years this is what should happen in the mcu

[@UltimateLegoFan324]

@Amritansh Mishra iron man died bruh

[@sa1ntluke]

Try 3

[@UltimateLegoFan324]

@@sa1ntluke lmao

[@thebariobro7664]

I love Secret Wars for the conflict it put for the FF and Doom. Just makes me excited for things that could come in the future of the MCU, even if it’s way for off

[@studio500]

Fantastic overview. Just watched Dr. Strange MoM and went straight to your video. Thank you so much!!

[@abloshow91]

This felt like the end

[@CousinCreepy]

For me this was the last great Marvel crossover. Art, writing and concept were all engaging and quality!

[@EdgardoSalas]

This is peak Marvel. The only thing to rival its grandeur is the Marvels mini-series imo.

[@daviddiaz529]

Marvel's Crisis On Infinite Earths

[@birdsamora9925]

Made me feel better about heat death, we shouldn't wallow away we should try.

[@pixelperfect9867]

Hey Matt. Question? Would it be okay if you covered new x-men and j Michael starzinsky spider-man. New x to explore the psychology grant morrison creates to show the minds and personality of the mutants. And jams spidey to show a controversial run

[@Ray_Petree]

I’m professedly a far bigger fan of DC than Marvel Comics - but I’d freely admit that Secret Wars is probably the greatest event in comics history. Jonathan Hickman should have never returned to Marvel Comics, because Secret Wars was the perfect epilogue to an era of Marvel Comics. Maybe even Marvel Comics itself.

[@virgilbarrios3174]

When are you gonna cover Omega Men?

[@addykouloukis3120]

This is for me the best video about this event i have seen a lot of them and I love them all but the depth in which you explore this event makes this a reality awesome experience and it's only about 21 minutes thank you for all the great work you put into your videos I always give but you a like every video you put out or at least the ones I have seen but from this point on i will give you a comment because this videos are really amazing a like das not cover it

[@MattDraper]

Thank you!!

[@eduardoruiz7600]

I really need to pick this up in trade. I never finished the story when it was first coming out

[@smashmaster521]

That's honestly the best way to read Hickman comics. He loves to write for the trade.

[@Xehanort10]

10:32 The weird thing is there have been plenty of alternate universes ruled by Doom where things were better off. And times where he's managed to take over the world but gotten bored.

[@rainspectre3153]

It's interesting to note that Doom was never originally intended to be a "big" villain, Lee and Kirby just jumped on him after they realized they'd created a perfect villainous foil for Reed.

[@vasilisgkoumas4263]

very thorough video toutching on many different aspects of the secret wars comic. Really loved how you implemented the physics theories and tied them back into the story and thought your quote and panel selection was very spot on!

[@anothercleverusername992]

Yeah, _Ultimatum..._ In this series, we quickly, violently, and graphically absolutely SLAUGHTER all of your favorite characters. With no reason, no ceremony, and sometimes _"OFF SCREEN",_ and yes, they are actually dead forever. All of them.(except for new Spider-man). You're going to still buy and read our comics right? What?

[@darkroninmarvel]

For me this was marvel's zenith and sadly, it went downhill from then onwards, an overdose of events with mean spirited storylines that left readers apathetic, as well as editorial decisions based of an unhealthy obsession to follow current trends/topics which fragmented comicbook readers to an irreparable state. I know people are going to disagree with me, and that's fine, but for me the marvel comics I loved ended with secret wars. Please don't take my words the wrong way

[@smashmaster521]

Tis fine. For me, Secret Empire and War of the Realms, while nowhere near as good as Secret Wars, were where things ended for me.

[@EdgardoSalas]

Could I read this as a standalone comic? There are just sooo many books to buy for me to get up to Secret Wars :( I have read Hickman's Fantastic Four/FF run tho...

[@noneofyourbusiness4616]

I didn't read this comic... Doom "took" Sue as his wife after killing her husband and she just went along with it? Would have liked more explanation on how that was supposed to work.

[@DavidSilva-mn4dz]

He change history by taking out Mr Fantastic of the equation.

[@CharlesEtheridgeNunn]

I know this series and the many miniseries which span out of it were a bit of a nightmare for retailers, but I loved Secret Wars.

[@RedDragonM1]

ANNNNNNNNNNNNND Marvel used this story as an excuse to remove the FF from the books because they were petty about NOT having the movie rights! ALSO...since then (Till recently) they downplayed the X-Men (movie rights...) and elevated Jane Foster Thor over Thor because "SHUT THE FUCK UP! YOU WILL LIKE IT, OR YOU ARE SEXIST!!!"

[@agony6504]

Take my money I am buying it

[@Vimes86]

The only bad thing of this event is how much Cyclops phoenix was so inconsequential. That's it.

[@MattDraper]

I think of the sudden deaths of Cyclops and Thanos in wrestling terms. When you introduce a big new bad guy, in this case Doom with enormous powers, you gotta have a few heavy hitters get dropped by him to pump up his threat.

[@Vimes86]

@@MattDraper it is surely for that but considering that I loved how Hickman was writing Cyclops compared to bendis at the same time, I was hyped for something more and got a bit disappointed. Considering then, how the X-Men were relaunched after that , till House of X, hurts a little bit more.

[@smashmaster521]

What's worse is that Cyclops remained dead after this until 2018.