Presbyterian vs. Reformed Baptist: A Friendly Jab at My Brothers

[@wallywest001]

In The words of a Fellow Reformed Baptist like my self, I give you Keith Foskey and His Jab that Presbyterians Have "Superior Theology".

[@toolegittoquit_001]

They certainly do 😂

[@ThetaMinistries]

I’m a reformed Baptist! But I love my Presbyterian brothers! You guys really care about apologetics. That’s something I’m super fond of with you guys!

[@lordwilmore8775]

Reformed baptist here - awesome video. All of your friendly critiques are spot on. There is so much about Presbyterianism I love - the history, the polity, the orderliness, the worship style. For me I am just totally convinced that credobaptism is more biblical.

[@autumn_armyworm]

Exactly. If it weren't for the paedobaptisms and aspersion instead of immersion, this would be a good church.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

@@autumn_armyworm Well, it is a good church lol, they're just wrong on baptism.

[@PaDutchRunner]

I don’t understand how you can conclude that credo is biblical when you have endure families coming to faith in Acts and when you have the obvious relationship between circumcision and baptism without any clear prohibition in Scripture regarding infant baptism. You’ve also got the precedent of Noah’s flood and the crossing of the sea in the exodus - all clearly paedo.

[@PaDutchRunner]

And then you have the continuance practice stemming from Acts through tradition- all ancient churches being paedo!

[@gregb6469]

@@PaDutchRunner -- There was no need to have a prohibition of infant baptism because no one in the 1st century was either practicing it or advocating it.

[@franckinho]

What you said in the beginning is so true! I was born in Brazil but raised in the States. I grew up going to Brazilian churches here in the states… every single one I went to I can objectively say was word of faith. When I got my License I started going to a non denominational mega church which is a great church that I love and hold so near and dear to my heart. Eventually I started getting into James White, Jeff Durbin, and others which made me more reformed Baptist. As the years have gone by I just craved the word more and more and better teaching. About 4 months ago I made the decision to switch churches and am now going to a PCA church. This is what I needed. Deep theological sermons.

[@andreichKh]

"Almost thou persuadest me to be a ̶C̶h̶r̶i̶s̶t̶i̶a̶n̶ Presbyterian . " (Acts 26:28)

[@MatthewEverhard]

Ha ha! Amen. Thanks for making me smile bro!

[@patmyles4776]

I was a Reformed Baptist but joined the PCA solely on the basis of their polity. I am amazed at the meaty teaching I receive weekly. Great denomination.

[@DavidKMartin]

"Not those five points." Very funny throwaway line.

[@jgeph2.4]

I came to faith in the non denominational world and my church was of the Arminian Dispensational persuade. I was personally convinced of the doctrines of grace though. I remember hearing Voddie Baucham speaking on Discipleship and how they used the 1689 confession of faith to disciple their members . In my context there was no membership and discipleship was not understood within the ordinary means of grace and the local church but more of your personal devotions . So when I read the 1689 I was blown away . That lead me to the WCF which lead me to ask why Presbyterians believe what they do. WCF covenant theology sealed it for me and I joined my local OPC . Pastor Matt’s videos were influential in that as well because of how he addressed the questions I had in such a charitable way and exegetically from scripture . My local church does this as well and I’m beyond grateful for the Lords providence . 🌷

[@petrapublications]

Well said, Dr. Everhard! These are some of the main reasons I moved to the OPC from Reformed Baptist.

[@thomasc9036]

You must be the 4th person in the history of OPC. 🥰🥰🥰 I kid. I am in PCA but my heart is more with OPC.

[@petrapublications]

@@thomasc9036 Haha! the fourth😂 Come now, I'm at least the 20th. LOL Nice!

[@thomasc9036]

@@petrapublications I was a Reformed Baptist but moved to PCA...AFTER attending a Baptist seminary. Go figure...

[@petrapublications]

@@thomasc9036 Dang.

[@rcljrobert]

My PCA exam was just as stringent. At the time, I thought it was a trial of my reformed faith, which I had just finished at RTS, (a presbyterian since youth going through consecration class). But I felt like some were out to "get me"! I'm an old college Linebacker who rarely feels threatened, but I felt some threat. Our presbytery (Westminster) had many small church pastors who were suspicious of the few larger churches ( Big Steeple Boys). I felt they used the exam to intimidate. Earlier, I had to be examined in a different presbytery ( TNValley) who had more larger churches whose exam was just as tough, but their tenor was much more encouraging! I appreciate the stringencies in the PCA after seeing so many independent churches have a crisis of problems due to the lack of presbytery oversight and guidance! Thanks for the videos.

[@howardparkes8787]

Spot on! (5:30) I am a Calvinist because of James White and the work he has done.

[@truthseeker5698]

Your loss.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

​@@truthseeker5698 But to the gain of his everlasting soul 😏

[@truthseeker5698]

@@toolegittoquit_001 Calvinism has another gospel. Belief in Jesus The Messiah gives everlasting life, not arbitrary lottery winners on gnosticism.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

@@truthseeker5698No, it is NOT a different Gospel. It is the Gospel 🤨

[@truthseeker5698]

@@toolegittoquit_001 The. christ of calvinism and Jesus The Messiah are impossible to coalesce. You’ve been scammed bro! Your choice now you’ve been witnessed to.

[@000bullets]

I was non denominational and I got into reformed Baptist theology because guys like Jeff durbin, just like you said haha. I’ve really gotten more interested in the faith ever since. I appreciate you Presbyterians though. 👍🏼

[@MonerBilly]

Once nondenom, turned reformed baptist, turned pca (Slate Lick, Pa, then Leesburg Fl), currently attending urcna in eastern NC. Much love for all things Reformed.

[@MonerBilly]

James White was def my gateway drug to the Reformed World.

[@erikdstebbins]

Presbyterian (EPC) representative here. I have grown more fond of the Westminster Confession the more I understand the history behind it and re-reading it.

[@blchamblisscscp8476]

We recently had a visiting pastor from EPC fill in the pulpit for our deceased pastor Harry Reeder. Chris Stewart from Greenville, NC. He delivered a very thorough sermon on Ps 23 like I've never heard. Plus, he's from Belfast, Northern Ireland, so we all had to pay extra close attention to his message through the accent.

[@NESHYBeast]

As a 1689er, I really appreciated your video and the solid critiques. I have to agree-Presbyterians truly excel in these areas of ecclesiology, though I’d argue the plurality of elders could give presbyteries a run for their money! Praise God for the many generations of faithful Presbyterians. My hope is that we 1689ers can continue to catechize our children, establish a strong tradition for future generations, and grow in these areas where we can improve

[@blchamblisscscp8476]

Member of an Evangel Presbytery congregation. I've been listening to James White and Jeff Durbin for a couple of years, at least. Voddie Bauchum is another great teacher.I like Jeff's exposition of Scripture by topic. And I appreciate James for his ability to relate passages to issues and bring out the context from the believers who would have been reading the scriptures first hand. I've recently also enjoyed Joel Webbon. Polity is one issue, but I also note they are committed credo-baptists. In a covenant theology, it's just more consistent with the covenant and with Scripture that infants of believing parents would be included in the house of the Lord. As a congregation, we take vows along with the parents when an infant or an adult receives baptism. I'm not aware that a credo-baptist church takes such vows.

[@monjournalmyjourney]

Thank you brother Matthew.

[@vanessaclark6761]

You put your finger on it in your first point. A lot of the YRR and new 1689ers are coming out of non-denoms. There, individualism is woven into the warp and woof of ecclesiology. Even though they make assent to certain doctrines, they still chafe under the idea of some board or committee being all up in their business. Individualism is still more in the blood stream than confessionalism. But I see hopeful signs and I continue to pray for my denomination. Thank you pastor Matt.

[@andreichKh]

thx; really good thoughts

[@carolyndavis6657]

I started going to a reformed baptist church about 15 months ago and joined about 7 months after. Had to attend class with my pastor and elder where we went over every detail of the 1689 which took months. I had to read, discuss, understand, and agree with everything. Don’t know at what point my pastor became reformed and what he went through to be ordained.

[@bryanpratt5850]

Orthodox Presbyterian Church is where I go.

[@theRealBryan]

We share the Trinity Psalter Hymnal (copyright 2018)

[@refsojourner]

Very helpful for me. I had very little knowledge of this. Thank you

[@NKBC1689]

I'm a RB. But between you and Wilson and Longshore and others I'm on the verge of switching 😆

[@classicchristianliterature]

Do it. The argument is very simple. Abraham was justified by faith and given a sign of the righteousness he had by faith (circumcision). He was told to apply that sign to his children. He said “I will be a God to you and your children”. In the New Testament, baptism takes the role of circumcision. The book of acts is filled with 1 person believing and the household being baptized.

[@bibleman7757]

No he never at all thats a lie​@classicchristianliterature

[@toolegittoquit_001]

@@bibleman7757Is that all you’ve got ? 😂😂😂

[@ministeriosemmanuel638]

It be awesome if you invite Dr. Gavin Ortland to discuss topics like baptism and theology, he is indeed in fact a reformed Baptist. God bless you Pastor Matthew!

[@michealferrell1677]

One thing is sure , there would be no us without you guys

[@walteryoung2025]

As a Particular Baptist, I confess a jealousy for the Presbyterian system of church government. I wish we had a church government that could give us that level of stability.

[@TheRoark]

Oh hey, that's me! I will do my best to listen to this and respond here. These were a lot better critiques than I was expecting. I was honestly expecting this to be more about the sacraments and I am not particularly well versed in polity. I will do some research! Thanks for the video, Dr. Everhard.

[@JesseCamera]

Nail on the head, Matthew. Grew up non-denominational Baptistic, but since stumbling upon men like Joe, Jeff, and James, I have very quickly taken ahold of the 1689 confession. Along with my move toward covenant theology, I have shed my ignorance toward my Presbyterian brothers and have come to greatly appreciate your ecclesiology and polity. Really enjoy watching your content.

[@michelferreira333]

This thumbnail is pure gold. I loved this game. Thank you for this video!

[@stephenpalacios]

Love your video. Praying for you and your ministry...

[@BradKinder-m7u]

PCA Presbyterian here! My question to you fine sir is did you ever beat Mike Tyson? This game is my second favorite NES game. The Legend of Zelda was my favorite! I still play my Nintendo! Looking forward to watching this video! I love watching John MacArthur, Steve Lawson, Voddie Baucham, and Paul Washer even though I’m a PCA boy. I view PCA versus Reformed Baptists as Sprite versus 7Up! 😎

[@wmhull98]

I appreciate another excellent video Pastor, I had not considered this aspect of Presbyterianism and it makes me love it even more. I’m currently looking to join a very faithful Associate Reformed Presbyterian church. I went to dinner with a Reformed Baptist friend recently, expecting to talk about Covenant Theology or the 6 Forms of Unity or Reformed doctrines of the Lord’s Supper, and my friend had no idea about any of that. He said “Reformed Baptist” means 1. Calvinistic soteriology 2. Drinking is allowed 3. Dancing is allowed I thought it was so funny but also a little sad that when Reformed Baptists say they’re “Reformed” all they seem to mean is TULIP and that they party harder than their Arminian counterparts

[@link_music1747]

Sadly, that is mostly what Reformed Baptists come down to. They don't fully adopt the Covenant Theology, because they strive to maintain the idea of a personal decision and dedication to the Lord reflected in baptism, along with being obsessed with the "pure church membership". Not to mention that their arguments for credobaptism actually go against the calvinistic doctrines of grace. Not much room the sovereign grace when you have flashing neon signs above your head saying "MY faith", "MY decision", "MY personal commitment", " MY public declaration" etc.

[@brucedewitt4994]

Sovereign Grace Churches is a Reformed Baptist denomination (not officially 1689 but might as well be, and my church independently affirms 1689) with an excellent statement of faith and book of church order. I've been attending a Sovereign Grace church for 5 years now and have already seen the immense benefits of these governing documents on several occasions. If you're compelled by credobaptism, confessionalism, AND presbyterian polity, I highly recommend Sovereign Grace!

[@dpastor6631]

Matthew, thank you for your thoughts. So, as a Reformed Baptist elder here, we make a very, very clear distinction between soteriologically "Calvinistic" baptists such as Al Mohler, John MacArthur, John Piper, James White, Jeff Durbin and institutions like Southern Seminary, etc. as opposed to actual Reformed Baptists. Actual Reformed Baptists will typically be 1689 LBCF (sometimes 1644) in its entirety and are covenantal and definitely not Dispensational and would not consider Mohler, MacArthur, Piper, White, etc. to be actual Reformed Baptists at all. Actual Reformed Baptists are going to be confessional and will use catechisms, and teach them, and have been doing so going back to the 1644 and 1689 London Confessions (the Westminster is 1646). However, that appears to be a common confusion among non-Reformed Baptists. If you want actual Reformed Baptists and Reformed Baptist theology and history I would check out James Renihan's two volumes entitled "Vindication of the Truth", Pascal Denault's "The Distinctiveness of Reformed Baptist Covenant Theology", Samuel Renihan's "The Mystery of Christ, His Covenant and Kingdom", Nehemiah Coxe's "Covenant Theology from Adam to Christ" and Richard Barcellos' "Getting the Garden Right" among many others. That is Reforrmed Baptist covenant theology and not Mohler, Piper, White, MacArthur, Durbin, etc. Reformed Baptists will be covenantal, confessional, elder led, typically Amil and never, ever Dispensational. So, hope that helps.

[@Nobody92421]

Thanks for posting

[@sbrown6983]

Thank you so much Matthew for all of your great videos; they have been a blessing to me as I have been preparing to go to Reformation Bible College this Fall. Would you be able to do a video where you respond to the main Baptist arguments against covenant baptism?

[@Illuminate_identity]

Love this

[@AmericanShia786]

On point #1 ... At age 63, I was born and raised Roman Catholic, got "saved" at age 17 in an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church with Landmarker Distinctive ... After a year, I sadly backslid. But, I prayed every night. At age 25 I went back to church as a Pentecostal Holiness Christian. Heh, Charles Finney became my big hero. But, alas, reading his 1851 Systematic Theology in 2 volumes, I couldn't be a Pentecostal anymore. In 1993, someone gave me a copy of the 1689 2LBCF. After I graduated from Bible College I started looking at the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. After all, John Wesley was influenced by the Church Father Makarios the Great. Arminius' student Hugo Grotius' was influenced by Eastern Church Fathers. The problem was that I started listening to R C Sproul. Then J I Packer. I watched many James White debates and books. But, it looked like I was going to be a Confessional.Lutheran after reading the Book of Concord twice and Philipp Melancthon's Loci Communes 1521. Later I read the 1535 edition. After studying the Lutheran, Anglican, and Continental Reformed Reformation, I ended up still fully convinced that the early church into the 2nd century practiced believers by immersion in ordinary situations, and differently only in extraordinary situations were believers baptised otherwise. As a result, I also believe in 1689 Federalism. But ... the early Church had Apostles setting up churches that were connected. After the Apostles were off the scene, it seems that they were replaced by Bishops. And, after my experience in Pentecostal Churches, I want that Book of Order you mentioned, and at least a Presbyterian Church government, lot at least some way a local fellowship can get help from sister churches. I lived through church splits. They are heartbreaking. But, I am convinced of Credobaptism and 1689 Federalism. I did graduate from a Pentecostal Holiness Bible Institute in 1988 and was an elder in a local church from 1993 to 1995, til we had to merge with another fellowship, at which point I voluntarily stepped down because there were too many elders. The 1689 Confession, Orthodox Catechism, and Baptist Catechism could still be used. However, too much can go wrong if a local fellowship has no alliance of churches or some kind of book of order. So, I hope my middle name isn't Karen.

[@leslietascoff9784]

Great summary. I thought you were objective, but I’m in the OPC.

[@stephengilbreath840]

I consider myself a Reformed Baptist. I always said I espoused the 1689 LBC but I had never read it through. I recently bought a modernized copy and I'm currently working through it, to educate myself. I'm learning to appreciate all the creeds and confessions

[@sethplace]

Great video as usual.

[@raulfeijoo9697]

Excelente exposición sobre la eclesiología presbiteriana! Gracias!

[@TobyDuBose]

Good stuff, Matthew!

[@JosephsCoat]

I’m convinced of Baptist covenant theology as prescribed by the 1689, not not necessarily independent polity. Can this be reconciled?

[@DavidRamirez-ww5kv]

Matt, Very informative. I am in a Reformed Baptist Church and I came from a Baptist Church that followed Armenian theology. I sought a Presbyterian Church but they are vey few where I live. I will inquire from my church what the rules are for these things you discussed. Blessings in Christ.

[@classicchristianliterature]

What state do you live in? May be able to find a PCA, OPC, or RPCNA church around the area

[@brianhunley5302]

OPC here. I agree

[@PresbyterianPaladin]

Church Polity is actually a huge part of why I'm a Presbyterian. I read Thomas Witherows defense of Presbyterian church government and am firmly convinced that the Presbyterian model is the closest to the apostolic church of our Lord. All that to say great video. 😁

[@truthseeker5698]

Govt similarities , different gospel, can you fully tell all Jesus lives them and died for them? If you’re able to you go against these denominations .

[@PresbyterianPaladin]

@@truthseeker5698 I'm sorry but I don't understand your comment, could you clarify?

[@photographer157]

Wonderful to hear this, brother. Thomas Witherow was born and raised very near to where I was here in Northern Ireland. The first Presbyterian Church ever in the US Colonies was also started by a good man from here in what was then Ireland (before Northern Ireland existed and became part of the UK). WTS Press have a new edition of Witherow out that also includes his writings on baptism and the Lord's Day which is excellent. God bless.

[@bigtobacco1098]

​@@truthseeker5698spam

[@noutheticcounseling5447]

My desire to be a pastor with the Lord's guidance and help brought me through Bible College and seminary. But that is where it ended or maybe paused for a time. I admit that the PCA is a very difficult to be ordained in and would venture to say PCA pastors are the cream of the crop. Being part of reformed baptis/ baptistic churches are challenging as well but they are far and few between. Most of them are too closely following the many dispensationalist churches in choosing a pastor. Nepotism, close friends of a pastoral staff, and meets all the secular outward characteristics. Unfortunately from my experience these elected pastors have little to no theological training, they don't meet the biblical character qualifications, and worse yet, treat their congregants like their personal servants. Rather than serving their congregants. The big question; how do local bodies change their process of electing a pastor if they are undermined by the election board?

[@PaulMattoon-d2c]

Whether the Reformed Baptist calls the Presbytery as such, they certainly need the structure both to ensure that pastors are in fact Reformed and that pastors are held accountable and protected. As a OPC now PCA congregant, I wish them well.

[@DukeDestruction]

As a reformed baptist who is considering presbyterianism, do you have any books that expound on ecclesiology.

[@michealferrell1677]

Your arrows do clearly land on the wider groups of Calvinistic Baptist churches that claim the 1689 but yiu would be very wrong with actual 1689 confessional churches such as those in our CBA association. Remember we go back a little bit earlier in history for our 1st London confession was 1644 . Fir a good gauge on where we are look to someone like Dr Jim Renihan . It would be pure gold to have you interview him !!!!!

[@aaronhammons6065]

Which association are you in?

[@michealferrell1677]

@@aaronhammons6065 CBA and also TAARB

[@Amilton5Solas]

Cool 👍👍

[@christianwalton7080]

I lean very heavily towards being a Reformed Baptist, but one thing I do agree is a weakness of Reformed Baptists is the Congregational polity. I'm personally more for a light Episcopal/Presbyterian blend when connecting churches (it'd be very time consuming for me to elaborate so I won't)

[@HannahClapham]

No longer PCA, but spent probably 30 years or more as a member. Not so impressed with the results of its oh, so wonderful organization. I’ve seen a good number of pastoral divorces. I’ve seen pastors thrown out on their ear for very little cause. And I’ve seen major clerical character flaws as a matter of course. (One pastor was dismissed from the ministry for sexual abuse. But he could withstand a grilling on the WCF, praise the Lord!) The PCA has not been able to deal with Revoice and Side B. It has taken no action on the wokeness of some of its celebrities (e.g., Ligon Duncan and Tim Keller). It didn’t know what to do with FV/Auburn Avenue. It botched the trial of Peter Leithart. I was under care with the PCA. Was accepted at Westminster-Philadelphia. But couldn’t proceed because of lack of funds.There’s no real support for seminarians. I had two close friends crash and burn at Covenant Seminary due to lack of finances and lack of emotional support. I’m not saying the PCA is a bad denomination, but it certainly has its weak points. The Evangelical church in general is horrible at picking leaders. I don’t know what the answer is, but I hope things get better.

[@cynthiahunter2570]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We all know Presbyterianism is SUPERIOR THEOLOGY, and yet RC said he thought Jesus Christ could have sinned. That’s just a little dig since I’m feeling inferior.

[@fecone55]

What? "A pint of Presbyterianism"? Baptist don't drink! 😂😂😂

[@photographer157]

Excellent video, brother. However I would say that as a Presbyterian. I grew up in the Presbyterian Church in Ireland but only came to believe Presbyterian and Reformed doctrines when I was a teenager, a few years after I was saved. Glorious. One thing I would say though is that here we have a lot of effective independency within Presbyterian systems. I'm now in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church of Ireland and it's wonderful, such a blessing and a wonderful denominational home in which to serve the Lord. Yet most of my best friends are Reformed Baptist brothers and I'm so thankful for them!

[@thomasglass9491]

The conversion of Lydia doesn’t suggest nothing about babies being baptized. The “she and her household” doesn’t mean that there were babies in the household, that’s an assumption. Also you can see that God opened Lydia’s heart so she can believe. About the conversion of the household does't say anything but the Bible clearly teaches, however, that belief must precede baptism (see Mark 16:16; Acts 8:37; Romans 10:10-11; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 1:21), and that a sinner cannot be forgiven of sin based on the faith of another (Matthew 12:36; Romans 14:12; 1 Peter 2:7; 4:5; 1 John 3:23).

[@bigtobacco1098]

I only need assume an OIKOS covenant relationship and the continuation as Peter stated in Acts 2:38...

[@rcljrobert]

RC Sproul and John Gerstner!!!

[@sethplace]

One thing I don’t understand is what is the deal with the trinity. Why so many disputes about that?

[@churchhymnsandpsalms]

Remember: particular Baptists came out of the reformation too. We had our confession first (1644), before the WCF. We updated it in 1689 to show our unity with the WCF, and to stop being labeled anabaptists.

[@thomasc9036]

Well...that's just not accurate. Before WCF, there was the Scots Confession written in 1560. 😁😁😁

[@MothyEmms]

i would 100% be presbyterian if it werent for the infant baptism difference

[@leskaighin8903]

1689 Baptist here. Its all about the covenants and who should be baptised. Hebrews 8 is in the Bible. Love the Presbyterians, though sadly so many have gone so far of the rails.

[@bigtobacco1098]

Gee... we never read hebrews 8😅

[@TimBarrettELT]

One thing Baptists say is that it is easier to keep individual churches pure from an autonomous perspective. In a Presbyterian leadership model, all it would take for many churches to go wrong would be a bad apple up in the upper echelon, and that would trickle down to all churches underneath. What would you say to that?

[@spartakos3178]

One of the two major cautions I have against "theonomy" or "Christian Nationalism" as well. A state run church did nothing to keep the Brits from apostasy.

[@TimBarrettELT]

@@spartakos3178 Nor certain groups of Presbyterians.

[@aaronhammons6065]

@@spartakos3178 Christian Nationalism is not seeking a state run church. It seeks to clearly maintain the distinction between the family, the church, and the state.

[@spartakos3178]

@@aaronhammons6065 ideally perhaps, but it would by nature be a much closer relationship than we currently have, and it is certainly within the realm of human error for such a system to progress back to theocratic rule. Not saying that it wouldn't be better than what we have now.... But, there are still thousands of ways for fallen humans to screw such a system up.

[@classicchristianliterature]

A trickle down model is opposite of Presbyterianism. Maybe in a hierarchical model (bishops…etc) like in Anglican, Roman Catholic you would be right. Presby is a “bottom-up” movement. Each church has a session (body of elders). They keep each other in check. Each session is part of the presbytery (a large region of multiple churches). Those sessions hold the other sessions in check. Each presbytery is part of the denomination. So each presbytery holds the others in check. Exact opposite of “trickle down”, it’s from the bottom (individual churches with their body of elders) up (to the whole denomination).

[@SolaScriptura94]

I wholeheartedly agree and wish the confessional baptist churches were better at those vitally important things. I just believe the case for believer's baptism is stronger than the arguments for paedobaptism. Although I will admit, I've been heavily debating joining a PCA church for these and many other reasons. Could you please do a video on why you believe in paedobaptism, and another video on whether Deacons can be women? Thank you!!!

[@josephscottadams39]

He has at least two videos on infant baptism and one specifically addressing it. Look for the video of the baby 😀

[@victorrene3852]

I was strongly considering the Presbyterian church, so far the paedobaptism holds me back. I have given it ear and have heard the case for it but im just not convinced. It be nice though. I still love to hear you brothers and follow this channel. Reforming zoomer also was the reason he turned me off to presby church, do to statements he's made about reformed Baptist Christians. He should not be representing presbyterianism. I like him though. Glad I found this channel, a more mature Christian Presbyterian elder.

[@solascripturamjc9681]

Why is anybody getting a tattoo at all? Because in Lev 19:28 The LORD says not to print any marks upon ourselves.

[@bigtobacco1098]

Or eat pork

[@richardmatley8784]

Many of the reasons you mention seem to be pragmatic approaches to solving immaturity among the elders of the church. The responsibilities of the elders are being transferred to an outside source. I appreciate the idea of the Book of Order - but it fits more as a resource of collected wisdom for congregations to learn from others rather than rules imposed outside of the congregation. The process of ordination that you laid out adds to the requirements that are listed in Titus and 1 Timothy. I have seen Baptists too quick to lay hands upon a man for leadership, not upholding the fulness of the requirements. What you describe here is a disqualification process for those who may be qualified for eldership/pastorship. It looks to be an escalation of scholasticism. And it replaces the role of the congregation and elders to train up and lay hands on a man to be elder/pastor. The Academy as expressed in the Prebytery becomes the arbiter of pastoral readiness rather than a resource for the local church to better train their pastors/elders. Just some thoughts from someone who is a little outside of 1689 confessionalism (closer to Bethlehem Baptist Church's modification of the 1689). God's continued blessings upon your ministry. Thanks for opening the conversation.

[@happygirl65]

PCA here

[@SolaFide-q2b]

Maybe you could invite Pastor Gavin Ortland and talk about different topics such as what is reformed, baptism or any major theological debates within protestantism, that be aswome!

[@cjheideldude]

I'm a Reformed Baptist and I disagree that our polity and ordination process isn't as good. Because we're autonomous, I was able to create my own Bible college, give myself a doctorate, administer my own ordination exam, and ordain myself. Since we're autonomous who's to say that it's not all valid? This is why Reformed Baptists are superior.

[@gregb6469]

TROLL ALERT!

[@bigtobacco1098]

​@@gregb6469refutation ??

[@nzzenith]

Funny 😂

[@CC-iu7sq]

What I took away from this video: “Yo, that is weak sauce” - Matthew Everhard, definitely being a cringe 46yo dad lol.

[@malmeida9293]

How do Presbyterians would deal with a candidate to the ministry who object to the book of James as APOSTOLIC, or universal, and hold partially to the original Lutheran view of the book and using exegetics, history, quotes examples from antiquity, even patriotic examples and Scriptural harmony, find it hard to reconcile with the teachings of Paul in SOLA GRATIA? Would the Presbyterians reject this candidate summarily? Thanks!

[@zachm4438]

What do you think about ordained Federal Visionist and Side B Christians in the PCA?

[@gregb6469]

The fact that in the 2nd century some Christians began baptising infants doesn't help the Presbyterian cause, because the REASON they did so is quite different from why Presbyterians do so today. The 2nd-century and beyond Christians did so because they believed baptism to be a salvation sacrament, ie, baptismal regeneration, a heresy which Presbyterians rightly reject.

[@ihiohoh2708]

Technically, Presbyterians do hold to the idea that Baptism saves, even historically. John Knox said that Baptism saves. Not that water baptism saves, as that is just a sign. However, the sign signifies the thing that does save, which is Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That there is a sacramental union between the two, which is a spiritual relation of the two. So both are part of the same sacrament. That is why you will actually hear some Presbyterians say Baptism saves, but essentially they mean Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

[@ihiohoh2708]

I personally disagree with the usage of the term, "Baptism saves." Since it causes confusion in this day and age, but I did find it relevant to your point.

[@jeffreyjourdonais298]

Went to a baptist church once, guy had a PhD in theology. Knew his stuff. No people skills.

[@autumn_armyworm]

Everhard makes a big deal of all the education and training. Is all that really necessary to teach the Word and win people to Christ? The Apostles were simple men. Jesus was a carpenter.

[@gigahorse1475]

@@autumn_armyworm As a Baptist who has attended two IFB churches in her life… yes. I am sick of hearing my pastors spout actual heresy from the pulpit. Yes, they are doing the Lord’s work. Yes, they are winning souls. Yes, I respect them. But I think they lack education with some of the things they say and that is harmful.

[@bigtobacco1098]

The apostles learned under Jesus... 😮

[@bigtobacco1098]

Jesus wasn't found in the temple...

[@dpastor6631]

There are a number of misunderstandings regarding the difference between Calvinistic Baptists, churches that claim to be 1689 and actual confessional, covenantal Reformed Baptists. I've tried to address these issues below. Just FYI, my former church currently houses IRBS, the International Reformed Baptist Seminary.

[@Steelhorsecowboy]

Off topic; Can someone help me understand this? Why does God require a blood sacrifice? Blood sacrifice, even human sacrifice was required by many primitive pagan religions that existed before Christianity and Judaism and I understand that God hates human sacrifice. Why then does God require blood sacrifice to forgive our sins? He became a man in the form of Jesus Christ and was murdered by men. For some reason this ended further blood sacrifices. Why didn't God simply forgive Adam and Eve and their successors? Thank you for your understanding on this matter.

[@TimBarrettELT]

Because, according to God’s law, “the soul (person) that sins shall die”. The Old Testament sacrifices symbolically pointed to Christ representing us and dying in our place. I imagine other cultures had ancient knowledge of these sacrifices, since Adam and Eve, and then Noah and his family, and they distorted the truth with their illegitimate sacrifices.

[@TimBarrettELT]

Because, according to God’s law, “the soul (person) that sins shall die”. The Old Testament sacrifices symbolically pointed to Christ representing us and dying in our place. I imagine other cultures had ancient knowledge of these sacrifices, since Adam and Eve, and then Noah and his family, and they distorted the truth with their illegitimate sacrifices.

[@Steelhorsecowboy]

@@TimBarrettELT Thanks Tim, I do know that it is God's law however what I was asking was "why" did God require a blood sacrifice to forgive Adam and Eve and their successors? It was in his power to simply to forgive as he asks us to forgive those who offend us, or he could have required many other conditions for forgiveness. Why did he require a "blood sacrifice"? How would you explain to a non-believer that God requires the death of a sinless unblemished creature before he will forgive his creation for disobeying him? God, himself came to earth as a man, Jesus, and was murdered by other men, and that act permits an individual to be forgiven and not be separated from the Creator for eternity under certain circumstances. Please help me understand the logic and purpose of that blood sacrifice. Why did he require a "blood sacrifice"?

[@TimBarrettELT]

@@Steelhorsecowboy It helps if you consider justice, even in the human realm. God, being completely good and just, cannot simply "forgive" sins arbitrarily. It would be like a judge saying: "Listen, I know you r*ap*d and m*rder*ed someone, but I am very kind, so I am not going to condemn you." That would not be a good judge! God, the judge and ruler of the universe, has declared that the soul that sins must die - and that is not talking about the "death of a sinless unblemished creature", as you wrote, that is talking about yours and my death as a sinner. But God is also love, and has a plan to save us by His grace. As Adam, our common human ancestor, sinned, causing all of the human race to fall, so Jesus came and became the Second Adam of the New Creation. He - as a human being who never sinned - took our place as the Second Adam, and died on the cross, paying the penalty for our sins FOR US. The sacrifices (of animals) in the Old Testament did not save anyone. They just pointed, by faith, to the one who was going to take our place and pay the penalty for our sins. It is like a judge sentencing you to pay a steep fine, and then coming down from the bench and paying the fine for you. He can do that and be both just and merciful at the same time.

[@Steelhorsecowboy]

@Tim Barrett Thank you, Tim unfortunately that doesn't answer my question but I appreciate your efforts. You said; "God, being completely good and just cannot simply forgive sins arbitrarily", yet he has set up the whole premise of paying for sins with blood sacrifice and then provides that blood sacrifice. Again, thank you. I am a believer. I ask this question to understand better and to be able to speak with non-believers. I recognize that there are some answers that I will never know, and I can still believe, despite their being some mystery. I love my Creator will all my heart, body and mind. I can live with some mystery. Again, thank you.

[@dpastor6631]

Matthew, in the 1689 confessional churches, elders typically remain active elders in the church for decades, at the same church. In the church I came from, the oldest elder had served at the church for twenty five years before having to step down due to health issue, the second well over twenty years and right down the line. I have been an elder now going on my fifteenth year at the same church. Actual practicing confessional, covenantal 1689 LBCF tend to have their elders serve for decades. So, again, a bit of a caricature and a blurring of the lines between Calvinist Baptists, 1689 churches in name only and actual practicing confessional baptist churches.

[@thomasglass9491]

Infant baptism lacks the biblical support and also the church in the first 200-300 years didn’t believe in infant baptism.

[@link_music1747]

That's a lie.

[@thomasglass9491]

@@link_music1747 Show the biblical evidence!

[@jesusisrisen1202]

You’ve just committed the logical fallacy of reversing the burden of proof. You literally said “The church in the first 200-300 years didn’t believe in infant baptism.” Then you turned around and said “Show me biblical evidence!” That would be like me claiming that ghosts exists, but give no proof to substantiate said claim, and instead shift the burden of proof to others, by stating that anyone who disagrees should prove ghosts don't exist. So with that, please provide evidence or proof that “the church in the first 200-300 years didn’t believe in infant baptism.”

[@thomasglass9491]

@@jesusisrisen1202 My point is that there is no biblical evindence for it. This is my position. Maybe I'm misinterpretating a verse or passage. So, then appealled to the church fathers to demonstrate that the early church didn't believe it either. That shows that my case is the best one.

[@jesusisrisen1202]

@@thomasglass9491 I understand that your credo-Baptist interpretation of the Scriptures would lead you see no biblical evidence. However, just note that’s your interpretation which isn’t necessarily an argument, but an unproven assertion. Secondly, you still haven’t answered my question. Please show me evidence that “the church in the first 200-300 years didn’t believe in infant baptism.” You made the claim not me or anyone else on this thread, therefore you are obligated to defend said claim. Otherwise you are simply begging the question, which is logically fallacious and does nothing to advance your baseless assertion.

[@oldranger649]

why would a Christian tattoo?

[@autumn_armyworm]

Why one anyone tattoo?

[@pcbc731]

Because some has to spot “da plane”

[@chemnitzfan654]

Isn't the 1689 just a word for word copy of the Westminster with small changes?

[@vanessaclark6761]

I'm a Baptiterian 😂

[@sanctifiedandsaved5298]

Matthew Everhard you've made valid observations and raised valid concerns, regarding being a true confessional church among Reformed Baptists. As a minister serving in Reformed Baptist churches, I have been troubled by the lack of training and examination of men for church ministry and leadership, and some of this stems from both, yes, many "Reformed Baptists" are new to the reformed game 😄but also it is due to the historically flawed Baptist view on the "priesthood of the saints" and congregational polity, and some of these "particulars", or "distinctives" have prevented unity in maintaining doctrinal integrity and leadership amongst those who hold to a "credo-baptistic" view on the administration of water as a sign of the covenant.

[@lorijones4785]

What is your comparison to Methodist

[@ApproachingLifeBiblically]

As your reformed baptist brother in Christ, let me just say, excellent video and great points!! I completely agree with every point. Here’s my jab back… how does a PCUSA church compare to a reformed Baptist? Lol

[@charleshowarth8461]

Did jonathan edwards baptize infants?

[@mdsmithson]

Ray recently shared this with me, is this more of a presbyterian stance? "You are saying that sinners have to “believe” to be saved. They have to “do” something. That’s works-righteousness. That’s “another gospel.” We are saved by grace alone (see Ephesians 2:8-9). It seems that you need to repent of the sin of the deception you’ve been spreading. Kind regards, Ray Comfort"

[@aaronhammons6065]

That is an orthodox gospel stance. It is clearly informed by Pauline, Augustinian, and Calvinistic soteriology. It is not Presbyterian only, but the gospel as taught by all of the reformers.

[@mdsmithson]

@@aaronhammons6065 All the reformers taught that believing is a work?

[@SerenityNow22]

Calvinists believe regeneration precedes faith. Grace is irresistible so once God regenerates us, we respond with repentance and faith which is a GIFT.

[@mdsmithson]

​@@SerenityNow22 thats why his gospel presentation starts off and mostly stresses turning from sin. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5qaeJ1pnbpoapI

[@aaronhammons6065]

@@mdsmithson No man will repent or believe unless his heart is regenerated by the Spirit first. He can't even see the kingdom unless he has been born again first (John 3:3). Those who are dead can do nothing until they are made alive. A man must be made alive by the Spirit, and then he will repent and believe. All we can do is call people to repent and believe and trust that the Spirit will quicken the elect.

[@donaldmorrison9940]

I've found a lot of guys - primarily in America but also over here - who become Reformed in doctrine but forget that there's practice comes along with that. It isn't a coincidence that properly Reformed churces, as well as the men who wrote the confessions, practised things like exclusive psalmody, the regulative principle of worship, headcoverings and, perhaps most obviously missing, the observation of the Lord's Day including recreation.

[@georgewelsh3683]

I thank you for addressing this issue. Not impressed by the pride expressed in accidemic prowess of Presbyterians. Do you baptize infants on the 8th day and then begin serving them the Lord's Supper? The credo Reformed Baptist went farther in reformation when it comes to infant baptism. Presbyterians retained a quasi-Roman Catholic perspective and have to deal with the confusion and question as to who is or isn't regenerate. Credo Baptists require a confession of faith. So it appears to me they have a more rigorous and clarified ecclesiology. .. I'm not aware of any torture chambers amongst the Baptists but they did occur amongst Lutheran and Presbyterian circles during and after the Reformation period. I'm glad today that those actions and reactions have ended. I would be happy to see reformed credo-baptists and Presbyterians be able to be members of a common church. Parents who have the responsibility of raising up their children in the Lord would be able to have a baby dedicated instead of being forced to subject their child to an infant baptism if it violated their conscience. Run that by your presbytery and get back to me if you survive. Haha. Thanks again. It was fun.

[@classicchristianliterature]

Baptism does not have to occur on the 8th day. Covenant baptism is applied to households (not just infants). Presbys do not presume that their kids are regenerated automatically. No confusion. We would evangelize our kids and look for fruit of conversion. Were Abraham’s children confused about their need to believe just because the sign of Abraham’s faith was applied to them? Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised…

[@nonameguy4441]

Child dedication never occurred in the New Testament- it occurred a couple of times in the Old Testament, so under your theology, you shouldn’t be doing it. Your view of how “reformed” baptists came about is faulty. It came about when John Smyth went to the continent and got mixed up with the Anabaptists. It is well documented that the Anabaptists had several heretical doctrines - including not least of which that Christ was not eternally begotten of the Father. This doctrine along with believer’s baptism were developed at the same time they were developing several other faulty doctrines that eventually had to be corrected. So no, reformed baptists didn’t take the reformation further, they just combined the parts of the theology of the Anabaptists with the reformation to create an impotent theology. John Smyth eventually didn’t even remain a particular Baptist, he ended up a Mennonite. I wouldn’t be caught associating with anyone who aligns with the Anabaptists of the 1500’s, but that is exactly where modern baptists come from. And no, infant baptism did not originate with Roman Catholic- it is apostolic in origin. People like John Knox risked their lives to purify and reform the medieval church, but accepted infant baptism. If they were willing to risk their lives to correct the Roman Catholic Church, they wouldn’t have kept infant baptism if they thought it originated with Roman Catholic theology.

[@unclenobodymusic6980]

What I wanna know is, what do you do when your Mainline denomination has become heretical (like the PCA or PCUSA), with the reformed Baptist group, it’s to young to have heresy creep in yet..

[@toolegittoquit_001]

There's always (?) the CREC and the OPC

[@seanmurray864]

What has all this nonsense about 1689 got to do with Jesus.Was Jesus a baptist or presbyterian??. I am here tonight trying to make up my mind to try a church tomorrow Sunday.This nonsense had put my right of . What committee qualified the 12 apostles when filled with the Holy Spirit??.Why can't people just love and serve the Lord for who He is.I will continue to study at home

[@nzzenith]

I hear from where you are coming from. It's an Eldership thing. N.T: There was a council to decide what Gentile belivers must do. And there was also fasting and praying to chose deacons for particular leadership etc.

[@karendash3274]

My name is Karen and for the life of me, I don’t understand how my name came to describe negative behaviour I’m disappointed that you choose to slander those of us who bear this name.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

Get over it 😬

[@karendash3274]

@@toolegittoquit_001 There’s nothing for me to get over. I was just stating my disappointment that Dr Everhard would choose to indulge and promote this negative behaviour. Being a Pastor, I hold him to a higher standard. Reading your flippant response to my comment speaks volumes. I bid you peace

[@dpastor6631]

Mathew, again, thank you for your thoughts. Actual Reformed Baptist churches have very strict ordination standards regarding Scripture, moral integrity, the ability to teach and confessional adherence to the standards. They will be taught this, examined in this, tested in this, required to adhere to the confession. Many times actual Reformed Baptist churches will invite other Reformed Baptist church elders into the ordination and examination process. Again, on a popular level, I think you are confusing popular Calvinistic Baptists, even some who claim to be 1689 with actual practicing 1689 Reformed Baptist covenantal and confessional churches - deep in the blood stream. There is a significant difference. But again, it's a common misconception from sort of "outside the camp". Just as non-Presbyterians tend to blend all Presbyterians together, both liberal and confessional.

[@SirMillz]

Sprinkle vs submersion...

[@ihiohoh2708]

The Bible never once explicitly describes the mode of Baptism is only immersion. Baptists get the idea that it's "to immerse" from the Greek word, "baptizo" and from bad hermeneutics of baptism being mentioned in the Bible. The problem with this is, while baptizo can mean to immerse it doesn't always. It has several meanings. There are several verses using this word that clearly don't mean immersion. Then, for example, in the baptism of Jesus it isn't described that Jesus is being immersed as many Baptists point out. It actually just says He went out of the water. This isn't describing mode of baptism, but literally they went out of the water. We don't even know how deep they went. This is all assumption.

[@ihiohoh2708]

That said, I don't think you'll find anyone who will disagree immersion is a valid mode of baptism. Rather, the argument is, it isn't the _only_ valid mode of baptism.

[@SirMillz]

@ihiohoh2708 thousands of people have been killed, wars fought over this debate. It is quite tragic. Many saints were killed by other saints, when these differences are really part of the outer or secondary beliefs, not the core saving beliefs. I used to think I was a Calvinist until I looked into the true meaning of TULIP and how unbiblical it is, and how many Anabaptists were matyred by the "Reformers" a code word for Calvinist.

[@ihiohoh2708]

@@SirMillz The Anabaptists actually poured/sprinkled themselves. Not that any of that matters. Scripture alone is what matters.

[@SirMillz]

@ihiohoh2708 I'm totally okay with sprinkling or immersion, just not Calvanism.

[@lynda777]

Reformed Baptist or Recovering Baptist?

[@zachm4438]

Where's your 1647 tattoo

[@leopoldodah9346]

I am a reformed Baptist

[@spartakos3178]

Awesome content. I just don't see any baptisms of babies in the Bible. Probably the only real point of contention I have. I also, while intrigued and generally impressed by reformed theology, I am still in the early stages of researching it for myself. Not convinced on all points of Calvin either. Not saying I won't be, still working through it. I also feel like "Calvinism" or "Calvinist" seems often too close to the warning of Paul against saying "I follow Apollos, or X" instead of simply following Christ.

[@GregHorsky]

I grew up with this argument from silence as well ("no baptism of babies in the Bible"). The conversion of Lydia in Acts 16 is great evidence for children being included in the covenant sign. She believes and the whole household (which would have included children) is baptized as well.

[@markreese4991]

@@GregHorsky yes, possibly, but we can’t know for sure. That’s why we need to argue some other way, because the fact that there are no confirmed infant baptisms in the Bible is a strong point for the credobaptist position.

[@spartakos3178]

​​@@GregHorsky I don't think we are told the age of her children, as a woman of some status it might be that her children are already grown. The other objection I have to this argument is that it's one verse. I don't like forming entire doctrines from a single verse that in context is not directly addressing Baptism. Also, Consider when Jesus has the Children come to him, there's no call for them to be baptized. Why did Jesus wait until he started his ministry to be Baptized? But thank you for your response!

[@thomasglass9491]

@Greg Horsky The conversion of Lydia doesn’t suggest nothing about babies being baptized. The “she and her household” doesn’t mean that there were babies in the household, that’s an assumption. Also you can see that God opened Lydia’s heart so she can believe. About the household doesn't say anything but the Bible clearly teaches, however, that belief must precede baptism (see Mark 16:16; Acts 8:37; Romans 10:10-11; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 1:21), and that a sinner cannot be forgiven of sin based on the faith of another (Matthew 12:36; Romans 14:12; 1 Peter 2:7; 4:5; 1 John 3:23).

[@SolaScriptura94]

Watch RC Sproul's 'What is Reformed Theology' and these videos too kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJ6Voouhjcacpqc kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJTcpaekeJuWoMk kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6nSaKaJjJmhorM kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZoiQnZmNrLt7h6c

[@johnrmat2]

I appreciate you. I am sorry. I could not make this very succinct. I agree to disagree as a fellow sinner saved by grace. I claim the name dispensational baptist and fellowship with the GARBC of which I agree with their doctrinal statement and historic stance in fundamentalism wholeheartedly. I have my disagreements with Southern Baptists too. The main argument I hear from you: Mine is better because it is practical. This is unconvincing because it lacks authority. Reformed seems to choose practical, tradition, and systematizing over clear simple teaching in Scripture. You add a frame of systemized thought to influence interpret of Scripture and practice as a denomination. This often happens with many not just Reformed. Those who rely on simple natural understanding of Scripture have a strength against this and often land in the dispensational camp. With this I also land as a baptist and believe to each their own. We are all individual believers (if trusting in Christ alone to save us from the doom of our sin.) that must come to their own understanding and convictions on such matters. Then join a church of like doctrine and practice in obedience to Scripture. #1 Standards - Creeds. For a baptist this is useful study of believers over time to comment on Scripture in an easy catechistic format. Authority is not as high as Scripture itself. Your comments do not seem intended for me. I would not use the term "confessional" because I would have tweaks in most confessions. #2 Ordination: Church is autonomous and does not have a board having authority Scripturally to them above the local church. If the church wants to ordain their pastor, they often call a council of like faith and practice pastors/missionaries to examine an individual's salvation testimony, pastoral testimony, and systematic theology (plus general knowledge of Scripture and church history). The council gives its recommendation to the church. The church then usually submits to the judgement call of the council. This is a wisdom call of how formal the ordination needs to be. I like more formal. And if the individual changes his doctrinal stance their ordination is lost. The church ordained him under the doctrinal stance that he had. He should seek ordination again, with other like faith and practices individuals. Reformed have baggage of confessions, Presbytery, and book of church order. This is why I disagree with their approach to ordination. #3 Presbytery: This is not mandated in Scripture. Again, practical tradition is where this comes. You did not substantiate your impossible argument. Apostles have unique authority which not one else has. Local churches come together to work on tough doctrinal errors and collectively come to a decision, and voluntarily take back to their local church congregations of members. You seem to not like it because it is not practical. True accountability can be found in fellowships and does not require an extra biblical group. "I want to be a part of something bigger" seems emotional and not biblically mandated nor has biblical authority behind it. #4 Dispute resolution: This seems practical and not mandated by Scripture. Application may vary depending on how to resolve issues. Churches have the authority to make their own autonomous decisions. Pastor and church may deem it wise to separate. Scripture gives authority to churches (local congregations of members) to make final decisions and not to outside bodies nor a board of deacons nor elders nor a pastor. From Scripture, I see pastors lead, deacons serve, and church makes decisions. From my perspective, it seems like arbitrary practical tradition for Presbytery to make those decisions. #5 Book of church order: What I am hearing from you is your group is better than other local church individual members because they are not as good as elders. Sounds like an arbitrary judgement call on your end to value elders over average church member believers that have the same holy Spirit and authority given to them by clear simple understanding of Scripture.

[@bigtobacco1098]

Rofl... you claim to NOT like one system because of the hermeneutic it applies yet apply your preferred hermeneutic... news headline, we all use a hermeneutic