5.04 Leaf Springs & Shackles GURU Level Tech!

[@matthewmugar]

Matt...one of the best videos ever put out on suspension. It's been such a mind boggle to understand this. This makes it totally comprehensible. thank you.

[@MattsGarage]

Matthew Mugar wow what a compliment! Thanks Matthew!

[@veeraboyinaapparao308]

Good presentation ...Matt I have query about shackle length design. Spring span length 480 and spring height 145 mm,no of leaves 6 May I know what length required for shackle and installed angle minimum.

[@jpmc271]

Don't apologize for the color! That pale yellow is rad!

[@BerserkerF100]

Wow!!! Why didn't I find this video before!!! This is gold to me!!! My old F350 rides like an old wild west chuck wagon. Thanks so much for this video!!! 👍👍👍

[@MattsGarage]

Happy to help.

[@tundraspecialops]

Excellent demonstration on how leaf springs and shackles work!

[@NAPAuniversalJoints]

Great video bud. i have always eye balled the shackle angle and run flatter springs. Usually works really well.

[@montanamanbuilds8153]

Thank you for to the point and no off topic ramblings! Logic was telling me that diagram was wrong.

[@11green11]

Excellent presentation and superb demonstration Señor! Thank you for taking out your frustration on camera and sharing your learning journey with us 💪

[@Kactapuss]

Thank you. you really illustrated how the leafs and shackles interact on a leaf suspension. learned a lot

[@Kactapuss]

Finally getting around to trying to order new leafs. One thing I'm finding frustrating is that few mfg's list the same specs. For example Doorman tells you : pack thickness, capacity, and arch height. (example: 4 leafs, 1 overload, 1.75" thick, 1150lbs cap.) while many other aftermarket mfg's only say "3-4in lift springs" and don't have any arch thickness or capacity rating... It's hard to compare springs from Rough Country, BJ's offroad, Skyjacker or BDS without any actual specifications.

[@parkeryj3135]

You did so amazing on this video. I Will save this video to watch multiple times. Lot of work went into this and I appreciate it so much

[@MattsGarage]

Parker Wilstead thanks Parker! Sorry it took so long for my reply. Been swamped lately.

[@parkeryj3135]

Matt's Garage no worries, keep up the good work!

[@legendroman3826]

No one could explain my question but you did . Thanks for that paractical example. With out it i couldn't decide what to do.

[@ray8093]

Thanks for the leaf spring demonstration, I just checked the 55 truck rear leaf spring shackle I put on 10 years ago, it's straight up & down, there's another hole on the bracket that will change the angle to more movement. Now I know why I hit my head on the ceiling when I drive over a dip too fast. Thanks

[@kengartner6659]

When you order Dever lift springs for a stock vehicle do they automatically make the leaves longer to compensate for shackle angle?

[@raj6338]

Thanks for the informative leaf spring & shackle video. I dig the color of your scout.

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks, I changed the color and I hate it now. I’m gonna change it back.

[@kevindegroff7364]

Outstanding video Matt! I have been building leaf spring Jeeps for years and only 'educatedly guess'ed' the shackle length and location. But now I have some good reliable math to use to take out the guesswork! (Yes, I can do math!) Loved the part "but wait!" I have watched this video about 5 times to make sure I understood and laughed every time!!

[@MattsGarage]

Kevin DeGroff thanks Kevin. You forced me to rewatch because I forgot about that part. I appreciate the compliment!

[@MrFuel2burn]

Appreciated! Only improvement (suggestion) would be to have used a scale to measure the change in resistance (spring rate) between each of the mounting locations. Expressed as a percentage (rather than in pounds for the sake of the model). Great demonstration and the bloopers were cool too!

[@adambatchelder4121]

Great video, not a lot of people running leaf springs in off-road anymore. Ive got some custom made national springs in my chevy 4wd super long and super soft . I love them.

[@CeasarEdroma]

Very good clear explanation. Thank you so much

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks Caesar!

[@shawnmancebo1217]

Hi Matt, Enjoyed the info, one thing to help test spring compression and angles Is to disassemble the both spring packs, using only the main spring and make a small block to replace all the other springs that have been removed, so if it 3 inches of spring that have been remove add in a 3 inch block put your bolt back though the block and main spring mock both springs on the vehicle than with a jack you can compress and release and let hang and get your angles of the shakles and find your bottoming points with your tires on and off as well and side to side relaesd and compressed with out the resistance of all the srings as well as measurements for shocks and brakes line mods, drive line lengths and so on Thanks for the video!

[@dineshkumarhariharan588]

You cracked the real puzzle of leaf spring stiffness relationship wrt shackle angle.

[@jaydog7024]

I’m not a leaf spring guy at all, but now I feel prepared to become one of the day comes! Thanks professor.

[@Slowlane49]

I have all my parts together to do a leaf spring swap on my CJ and wanted info on shackle angle. Best I could find so far was avoid inverting. This helps a lot. Thanks.

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks. Good luck with the build.

[@cdeprima1209]

Great video, I watched it a few times to realize I can change leaves to fix that shackle angle! Great job, thanks! :)

[@ZJ_Rubicon]

This is very interesting. I am in the process of doing a 63" spring swap on my Tacoma so this information is very useful. Thank You!

[@MattsGarage]

mike diltz cool, let me know how it turns out. Good luck!

[@jesusakadice]

How did it go? I am in the process of doing that on my 1st gen 4runner. What angle did you end up going with? And how do you like them so far?

[@ZJ_Rubicon]

@@jesusakadice sorry but I never ended up doing it. I sold the truck when I saw how bad the frame was rotted.

[@benwillis2748]

Great video thanks for adding the bloopers at the end. It shows how much work goes into making such a good video.

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks Ben! Yes it was a lot of work but it’s also one of my most watched videos so totally worth it considering how many guys have gotten something from it.

[@conquest562]

Thank you. This is the only precise video on this subject in the entire internet.

[@MattsGarage]

Wow thanks! Isn’t it crazy? That’s why I made the video. I actually reached out to some TV personalities and asked them to make but heard nothing so I just decided to figure it out myself.

[@opossozoku8005]

Thank you! I learned so much about my favorite kind of spring. Gives me a good idea on what to look for when working on my 73' C10

[@MattsGarage]

Dillon Opossozoku happy to help!

[@merritts3515]

Very helpful! My truck has a front axle swap. And the ride is awful, while the spring may just be too big. The shackle is 90° at ride height. Time to go make some new mounts and shackles!

[@donlorinsharp]

Great video on all fronts! This is what KZbin was made for if you ask me ... edutainment. Thank you for taking the time to do this. I stopped in the middle of the video tho make sure I wouldn't forget to trip that "wonderful"(agk I just threw up in my mouth a little) algorithm for ya, but I might have some questions at the end ...

[@richardrussell1930]

Very informative. Great video. Great explanation.

[@vh4266]

Awesome analysis.

[@sampson7941]

I watched this working on a truck. Came back to it while contemplating lifting a firebird for slicks. Im seeing a longer shackle will change my angle

[@GrenadeMotorsports]

Thanks for helping me understand effective spring rate as it relates to leaf type suspension. Subbed.

[@muasboy]

Perfect video. Im new to leaf springs. And this was very helpful. Got a thumbs up from me

[@Maui_hilux]

This has been the most educational video I've ever seen about leaf spring tuning and shackle angles effecting the ride. Im running pro comp springs and there isn't enough desired flex i need. Might be i just need to adjust or buy shackles before changing out springs. Thanks again

[@MattsGarage]

ae86mia happy to help! I made this video because I couldn’t believe it hadn’t been made before. It’s now one of my most popular videos. Crazy.

[@teiaperigosa]

whole video went over my head. I'll come back to it when I can give it my full attention...

[@MattsGarage]

For sure. You need to grab a coffee and squint real hard, but there’s good information in there.

[@FlyLan]

As long as the information is correct then this is a great video. Gave me a expanded understanding and reinforcement for my spring suspicions. There are still a lot of questions I have about how various leaf pack mods and setup alterations will achieve different application goals. I think the main scenario that comes to mind is how a longer shackle will affect perceived on-road ride comfort when installed on the same leaf pack and using the same mounting points. This would be ideal for a DIY mechanic with basic tools and a limited budget that wants a more comfortable on-road experience with zero to little (driver+personal items/tools in cab=200-300lbs) additional payload. The problem I've been having is trying to get a smoother on-road ride quality out of a 2003 PreRunner TRD Double Cab. It has thick 3/1 two stage over-spring leaf packs. I'm unsure of the spring rates. Every aftermarket suspension component available for this truck is for lift, load, and/or off-roading/overlanding which all seem to equal a harsh on-road experience unless you're willing to drop $3k+ on 2- or 3-way adjustable reservoir coil overs and shocks and another $1k+ on progressive leaf packs, but even then you'll end up with a 3"+ lift with a 500-1klb payload increase which will then require new control arms, brake lines, diff drop kit, panhard correction kit, new ball joints, an alignment...the list goes on and on. You can do all that to this truck, but so far I haven't found one stitch of information about how to improve the ride quality for a daily driver aside from the snarky comment of "leave it factory". I refuse to accept this.

[@sentineloffreedom]

Thank you for making this video. Very informative and helpful!

[@brentspiegel1]

Great visual Matt. Thanks

[@skrtking3512]

This is the best video on KZbin

[@williamburch1321]

AWSOME VIDEO! Thanks so much for making this. I love seeing stuff like this. I’m currently planning out a front a rear axle swap on my Jeep. I’m also putting in a new sua rubicon express lift. This information was hugely useful and encouraging for me. I can give myself an improved shackle angle and stretch my wheel base a little at the same time! Thanks again!

[@MattsGarage]

William Burch happy to help. Just keep it at 90 or a little sharper and you’ll be good. Once you get over 90 the ride quality starts nosediving.

[@concepts_a1]

Thanks so much!!! I'm doing a solid axle swap and it was very nice to see the angles.

[@Viewofandrew]

Phenomenal explanation! Thank you. 👏

[@edpoints1127]

Great video. You are 💯% correct.... There are not many/any videos on this subject. What parts are supposed be able to move? Besides the leafs themselves, is the shackle supposed to swing? Is the bolt supposed to spin in the bushing? To they get tightened down? My through bolts are rusted in place. I've replaced springs, but I tightened the new ones down and nothing swings/swivels... only my spring leafs move-flex. What else should move? That's my basic question

[@MattsGarage]

Hi Ed. The springs flex and the shackle moves. The bolts should tighen the inner bushing sleeve to the shackle such that nothing spins on the bolt. Only the bushing material (rubber or poly) should move. If you have rubber, it will not spin on the bushing sleeve. Poly will. Are you sure your shackles aren't moving at all? That would be bad. The shackles need to move otherwise your springs are binding or they are way too stiff. Make sure you don't have a driveshaft or shock limiting the travel also. Theoretically if your springs are super flat, the shackle wouldn't move that much but it should still move.

[@edpoints1127]

@@MattsGarage I've got to take them apart, clean and grease them then. Shackles definitely not moving. Thanks Matt. I'd call but don't know if you take calls or have a shop etc... I work sewer and water and live in Wisconsin. We're laid off during winter and I've been wanting to address the issue with the springs... Just started looking for info and it's slim pickings

[@opinionsvary3132]

Thankyou for all your effort to help others mate. Cheers. Great vid

[@evancarignan7603]

Great video, I am mounting leave springs from scratch and this video gives me a lot to think about! Also I love the practical use of trigonometry!

[@RollingColeMotovlog]

Good Video! Go in on the effects on castor angle and steering (old jeeps etc) in the next one!

[@txobserver4946]

Very, very helpful video Matt. Very easy to follow and you did a great jog. I am one of your slow learners, and I would appreciate it if you could list the steps for calculating shackle mount location.

[@ericjette5132]

Hi Matt, 1986 Isuzu Trooper 10 bolt rear end/drum brakes/ leafs with non pressed eye bushings/ 70mm shackles. Upgraded to 89 Trooper RS leafs/pressed front eye/ 2” longer leafs than ‘86/90mm shackles/ about 150lbs greater load capacity. So I noticed my shackles were at a steeper angle due to using the stock 86 mounting points on frame. A bolt on upgrade. So I got a smoother ride and can load up the trooper with an equal weight loaded without bottoming out over rough stuff. Thanks for the video! Now I know exactly what my instincts were telling me why to do the mod in the first place!

[@MattsGarage]

Eric Jette awesome. It goes both ways. It’s good to hear field confirmation on a rig other than my own.

[@Outadoors]

Great info I've been looking for an explanation before lifting my rig. I really want to get it right the first time.

[@sailorsanjoy]

Amazing demo , I concept of shackles is a lot clearer now👍👍

[@jjwatson888]

Solid prep on this bad boy, love it

[@noobgameruaegain]

Great lesson on shackles. I've searched the whole internet to know how exactly these things works.

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks! Yeah that’s why I made the video. It’s shocking how little information there is out there. I was kind of hoping it would spark others to make better videos.

[@rakkassan2187]

Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge.

[@chadbrown414]

Great subject and good job on the tec talk!

[@crislangcay2227]

Thanks matt, really learned a lot from your thorough explanation! Planning to build my Jeep Roadster here in the Philippines, your lecture would be a great help for its proper leaf spring mounting

[@cpt.moroni3092]

I have owner type Cj2a with corvette 327 and 4 speed.

[@esnevip]

I like the colour.

[@austinthornley1272]

Excellent video. Good job

[@perjian1697]

Great explanation. Found this by accident and learned the answer to questions i didn't know i had about my ranger. LOl😂

[@aarongammel3094]

For the win!! A couple years of searching for how to figure shackle angle and I’ve found it!! I moved my springs inboard the frame on my Ranchero for more tire clearance. Doing so with a kit. A kit for a Falcon car not a Falcon Ranchero. The Ranchero wheel base is longer. Think station wagon with no rear top. Anyways had to fab my own mounts for shackles and they are wrong. To steep under the weight of the car. No hardly and action at all. Not good for hooking up on the track. I have traction bars still no action for a launch. Stiff as a board. I’m so glad I’ve found this. Now I can cut that old shit off and do it up right!

[@MattsGarage]

Aaron Gammel awesome! Happy to help!

[@bikemjb]

The equation is awesomely helpful, thanks for the video!

[@magicalempire]

Totally well explained, my shackle angle will be fixed now thx...

[@MattsGarage]

Andrew James thanks Andrew. Good luck! I had a guy pull up in a lifted Scout yesterday to bus some parts I was selling. As soon as he got out I’m like “does that thing ride really rough?” And he’s like “yes, how’d you know?” :-)

[@magicalempire]

@@MattsGarage yep cheers I already have it on CAD and worked out, after your lecture ready to make it... Thx again

[@Gunbanter]

Thanks for the hard work on this video.

[@ReshardsAutomotiveWorkshop]

Very cool. Thank you very much.

[@dan4x434]

The video I was looking for. Thanks 👍.

[@Phoenix88111]

What a great video . Thank u so much for making sense of things most can't wrap their minds around

[@CAGE-CODE_30LU7]

Well done, thanks!

[@The_liquor_Gaming]

Great video thanks for the info

[@chopperchuck]

The internet is a spooky place Just before Christmas I ordered new rear leaf springs for my Jeep XJ I watch this video 3 years ago This morning I wake up and it's back up on my feed so I'm watching it again I did not look for it I did not look for other leaf spring videos

[@MattsGarage]

Spooky indeed. I don’t pay for promotion or anything. That’s the algorithm

[@harryloibl5183]

Thanks buddy, cause I got a Ute/ pickup and the suspension is so hard the only thing giving is my back , needless to say that the seats are not padded very well also, but I’m thinking of taking out a leaf out of the flat pack spring, it’s akin to having a thick solid steel rod / bar where the spring pac is, or you would not be silly for thinking that the springs have been replaced with a block of wood, no give at all, good when I have a heavy load only but crap otherwise. Thanks for your input 😊😊 God bless

[@MattsGarage]

I think you are asking if you can take a spring out mate, and the answer is yes. Usually you take out the second or third longest spring.

[@harryloibl5183]

@@MattsGarage yeah thanks, I see in the spring set one leaf that is thicker than all the others and I’m thinking that’s the one I will take out, also like you mentioned too that shocks play the part as well, I wanted to purchase oil shocks, to no avail, only gas shocks are available for this vehicle, but I know if I replace the gas with oil that helps also

[@harryloibl5183]

@@MattsGarage ok thanks buddy

[@donscott6720]

Excellent video this was just what I was looking for

[@dirtytruckinhippies]

“Wait wait, you can do this” xD legend thank you for the informational and emotional support

[@scod3908]

Thank you for this excellent video :)

[@davidfaulkner75]

awesome video! thanks

[@beanz5355]

4am and you just blew my mind

[@johnk1532]

Thanks Bro, great presentation, easy to understand

[@johnniemeyer3139]

Awesome video !!! Very helpful

[@Tcodyw88]

Great video! Please post the formula under the video title.

[@MattsGarage]

Done, but here it is. Sorry I'm late responding. It's been a crazy couple of months. H = Sin(A) * L Or, where SpL = spring length (dead flat), and MH = the distance between spring mount and shackle hanger: MH = SpL - Sin(A) * ShL

[@dennisbo5004]

Finally !!! Great vid on leaf spring & shackle angles. 👍

[@AnthonyJ350]

Great explanation, thank you!

[@td3039]

Thank you, very informative 👏👏👏

[@firuzeyibeklerken77]

I watched any video on youtube and couldn’t find a more elucidative one.

[@firuzeyibeklerken77]

But I have a question in my mind🤔 ıf we replace the leaf springs to a closer point towards to fixed point ,Will it raise the cars rear because of curve on the leafs. I don’t wanna raise the rear of my car I just want more flexible rear leaf springs.

[@fidoexpeditions9366]

Watching.... again. Great info. Thx!

[@Wagenmeister]

Great video, I am watching this from an Scale RC perspective. I bought a 1:10 truck and the leafs arent doing what they should, so will be aplying this. Tip, if cellphone noise interupts the video, put it on silent. :-)

[@Grendelbc]

Lol. My buddy had a Scout the same color. Excellent info.

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks! I should have kept it that color. I might change it back.

[@josephmansanti5949]

This is what KZbin was made for! Thanks man

[@MattsGarage]

Thank you!

[@crosballz]

If ride quality & performance of your vehicle is important to you, then you should NEVER have to deal with Removing a Leaf from your Leaf Pack to Decrease your spring rate for a softer ride. That's the Beauty of buying Custom Leaf Springs from DEAVER SPRING INC. They make sure that the springs they make are absolutly perfect for each vehicle before they leave the front door. Obviously they are not perfect and stuff happens from time to time, but everyone I have spoken too about Deaver says that their Customer Service is next level... ( like your at Grandma's house waiting for the 2nd batch of cookies in the oven because the 1st batch was cold. ) And the awesome part is that Deaver Springs are 100% USA Made, so they will rework and remove a leaf from the leaf pack themselves all Free of Charge if you weren't happier than a kid with fresh baked cookies from Grandma's house. The things I have heard about Deaver and what they do to help a customer are things you don't her about companies doing anymore. Good Values I guess. I just know that the guys at Deaver Spring would have plenty of better ideas than simply removing a leaf & done..... that was my point. I Definitely enjoyed the Video Matt & I love the Bronco! Thank you!

[@joshuaatkins5197]

I know this is an old video but thanks. I have argued with people many times about this. I changed the angle on my yj with waggys and the springs got softer. Had people saying that doesn't change the rate. At least now I can point them to real world calculations. It's a leverage arm people!

[@MattsGarage]

joshua Atkins exactly. You can’t talk rate without considering EFFECTIVE rate!

[@brunkbrunkbrunk]

@@MattsGarage Can you do a video on calculating effective rate?

[@prenticeemler7709]

thank you very much, been restoring my 68 scout for a while now, come to this point now ,just want to get it right it will be hard to undo it if it is not right, huge help with the info, please take care .

[@darwindownhillers9270]

This is awesome. Thanks for making this video. Confirmed a lot of what I was thinking and also learned a lot.

[@workinprogress5821]

Great video, thanks . 👍🏿👍🏿

[@NETexans]

Great video. I bought my truck with a lift already on it. Monster lift kicks like a mule. No shackles. That math is going to be handy to solve my mystery.

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks Ken. When you say “no shackles” do you mean that both ends of the spring are literally bolted to a fixed mount!?! That would be lunacy.

[@NETexans]

@@MattsGarage yep. Rough ride.

[@ellerybice3787]

Since you gotta a IH, I subscribed.

[@hansguymon1254]

Much needed info this video is just what the doctor ordered

[@firefighter326]

Matt, what’s your leaf lift and shackle angle on your Scout ii? Great video!

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks, I think I ended up at 75 or 80 degrees.

[@dekebell3307]

Thanks so much for sharing this!

[@typicaladamo]

Sub'd just cause the blooper reel... lol... great info man! Thanks!!!

[@blaqwize1103]

You did a fantastic job! Thank you!

[@mme8760]

Love the info. Just subscribed. OUTTAKES!

[@sudburyhouse]

Wow...this makes a lot of sense! Just put a 3.5” lift kit on my Silverado and now leaf springs clunk over bumps. Need to watch the video again to absorb this info. Not sure how to change the shackle position or if that will make a difference for this issue. Great video

[@MattsGarage]

If they are new, you need to throw some weight in there and drive around for a while,. But yeah you would need a longer spring to get the shackle angle the same. Otherwise you need to relocate your spring hangers which is pretty involved.

[@Domp896]

Great video. You should make the same video regarding coils and control arm angles.

[@MattsGarage]

Domenick Palmiotto thank you! I wish I knew more about coils. Dirt lifestyle has some great videos on control arms that he made on his TJ.

[@Domp896]

Matt's Garage thanks I’ll check that out I just started watching his channel anyway.

[@Domp896]

Matt's Garage although I’m assuming long horizontal control arms would give the best ride just by picturing it in my head.

[@MattsGarage]

Domenick Palmiotto yeah but I think the general principles apply to both long and short arms. Long arms are definitely superior in every way based on my research except for cost and highway behavior. Although the LJ Ian just built into the 4wheeler channel is apparently amazing at speed. Nashville early bronco rode in it and said was it was like riding on a cloud. I don’t have any personal knowledge of coils though. All research and second hand accounts. My TJ is bone stock

[@adamshawtmr]

THEE best vid for understanding that is out there!!!

[@MattsGarage]

Thanks Adam. Very kind of you.