Shop Talk: Spring over vs Spring under??

Hey guys, In this video I am taking the time to go over the differences in spring under and spring over suspensions, with my opinions and thoughts on which is the best for certain situations. Thanks for stopping by, Please comment, like and subscribe
Intro and outro music:
song: rock drive
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[@BUCKEYEMANIA.]

Ran a 4” spring under for 6 years. This summer broke down and went to a spring over. And I just love it. It was twice as expensive. But it handles the trails better than the spring under did. Great video!

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watching man, I really appreciate the comment too. They both have some pros and some cons, im looking forward to testing my setup and the great thing is if it doesnt suit my needs I can always switch, I may be in your boat before I know it, lol. Thanks so much for watching!!

[@williamscott2002]

Great video. Thank you

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

No Thank you!!!

[@GarageBuddys]

SOA everytime

[@georgesnasr7227]

Very interested videos , i have a question , how can i make my 2005 ford ranger smoother and stop bouncing, shocks are good shackles are in 90 degrees with the leaves , one guy suggested removing the bottom leaf

[@claudehall7889]

This is the first person I have seen recommending running the yj trackbars CJ Jeeps didn't have trackbars so when I did my four inch lift I tried it without the trackbars and sway bar just to see how it would handle. Long story short they are laying on top of the Dana 35 behind my house. If you do a spring under four inch lift and an 8.8 rear diff swap at the same time the rear end will gain back the lost driveshaft length. You get to set your pinion angle from scratch to boot if you are like me and didn't want to pony up for a sye on top of lift rear diff tires etc. all at the same time. The single best thing for a jeep is ditching the D35 I wouldn't run one on a golf cart.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watching and commenting. Yes, I will agree with you to an extent, The Dana 35 is not a very robust axle and can be easily broken if abused. If I intend on upgrading though, both axles will go to the dump (as the 30 then becomes the weak spot and improves nothing really) and the wheelbase lengthened to accommodate a completely different setup and fix the driveshaft angle if needed. Just to note however, I have also witnessed people break 60's (completely due to driving style) and fully believe that since this Jeep is likely to never have over a 32 inch tire with numerically higher gears and do mild trail duty only with no lockers and an underpowered engine, its worth it to refurb it to get the project rolling and should have a serviceable life. Besides, I have a JK on 35's and an LS powered XJ on fullwidth axles and 37's i'm building for insanity. Its a very purpose driven thing this Jeep. Thanks so much for watching!!!!

[@billreid2066]

I have an 1989 with a spring over, I snapped 3 yokes due to axle wrap, before I smartened up and put a track bar on it.

[@KC9UDX]

SOA is a lot more work, but worth every bit of it. You basically end up redesigning the entire chassis. With either setup though, with this much lift, you should be using a CV rear driveshaft, which means turning the axle more than degree shims will give you. With an SOA, this is no problem because you're welding on new perches anyway. But if you go SUA, you have to cut your perches off and weld new ones on. And if you're spending all this money anyway, now is the best time to ditch the NP231 and bite the bullet for an Atlas. I built my own traction bar when I did the SOA. But I broke it and never got round to fixing it, because I haven't had any issues with it not being there. Someday.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watching and your knowledge. I actually have a NP241OR Rocktrac I am putting in the YJ behind the AX15 from a TJ Rubicon and plan to run a CV driveshaft (I talk about that and show it in engine install pt.1), I am also stretching the wheelbase and frame here soon, just haven't posted a video about that quite yet, as I am still getting the parts together and in the planning stages. The Jeep will have a custom body from behind the front seats and be approximately 30 inches longer than stock. That should help me gain some favorable angle on the rear axle (which will probably be upgraded to a 8.8 at that time). This is an ever evolving and very fluid project which doesn't really have a concrete end date as of yet but I do like how you think!! Stay tuned, I' m unveiling the changes very soon, just getting back to the shop now.!!!

[@KC9UDX]

Small Time Motorsports at 30" longer, you don't really need a CV shaft on a YJ. But it can't hurt. You probably know this, but with a CV shaft, you want the face of the yoke away from the CV end to be about 1 degree away from perpendicular. (Ideally it will be perpendicular, but the degree off forces the Ujoint to rock under normal driving, so it doesn't freeze up) So the diff will be pointed up. Without a CV, the yoke should be parallel to the yoke on the other end. I wish guys like you had been round 20 years ago when I was planning my build. I did a ton of research on my own and lots of trial and error.

[@dougharlow6037]

It seems to me even with the spring under lift kit, it will make the Jeeps suspension a lot stiffer (more leafs, more ark), rough riding and less articulation.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

The suspension is pretty stiff for sure as it has multiple leafs and a large arch to the springs, no way getting around that except to do custom leaf packs to get the flex back. I've never been one for looking to get articulation out of the leaf springs and with the stiffness I am sure to put a suspension seat in there, but longevity wise it should be mint. Thanks for watching and commenting!!!!

[@fredbanuel4001]

What do you recommend for a 2 inch Lift soft suspension ? I just bought a Suzuki Samurai is to stiff

[@timothykiniris1724]

So I have a 6" Rough Country lift on my 94 yj I want to convert it to a spring over with the Rubicon Express 5.5" spring over conversion kit. Now will I have any major difficulties by doing this or will it be a relatively easy job? Also will I then have an 11.5" lift? Stupid questions but a squeaky hinge gets greased

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Hello Timothy, first thanks for watching and commenting. To answer your question the Rubicon Express kit just takes care of getting the springs switched over to the top, brake lines and a drop pitman arm, with your lift springs you will net 11.5 inches of lift total. The RE kit is designed for stock leaf springs, If you use the stock axles at that much lift, you must do an over the knuckle steering or high steer kit as well as figuring out longer brake lines because the lines with the kit would be too short, so would the drop pitman arm and your shocks and driveshafts. 11.5 inches would be a full custom build im afraid. With 11.5 inches of lift youll also be extremely top heavy so you should think about full width axles to make it more stable if you do choose to go that route, but if you score stock replacement springs it should be very straight forward for you, and will be a softer ride, you can use current driveshafts and your shocks should be fine. I hope this helps out, thanks again for watching!!

[@gabrieleisella8697]

Fantastic video, I am a 19 year old who is looking forward to buy a suzuki samurai (it's cheaper and here in Italy the streets are very tight), what's the best way to have a good lift on a really tight budget(I'm still studying... ) thank you.

[@reuben_regon]

Isnt a longer Differntial be required, or else the distance between the front and rear wheel will decrease while going for leaf over axle

[@handballduenas]

Thank you for the video and knowledge. Decided on keeping mine spring under. Ps that damn Corona looked so good. 😁 cheers!!

[@mlevy6412]

Thank you this is very informative. As a newbie to working on a Jeep. I picked up a 81' Scrambler that has SOA with a 4" body lift on 42" tires. I am trying to make it more for street driving. Where are you located. Again thanks for the info

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watching man, picking up a scrambler is a huge score!! Those are kind of the unicorns of the Jeep world and are getting harder and harder to find. Your scrambler having 42 inch tires and a 4 inch body lift sounds like its a monster. Thanks so much for watching and commenting. I am located in beautiful southern Indiana. Good luck on your sweet project!!

[@mlevy6412]

@@SmallTimeMotorsports Can you move to PA?I can use your help! I have removed the body lift and dropped it to 35" tires but it still has a lot lift.

[@shortyruff40]

I flipped my 77 2wd blazer and the drive shaft won’t fit, need help

[@GusgusA1]

could I extend the driveshaft instead of a slip yoke eliminator? Did your kit include the steering correction?

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Hi Chad, sorry so long getting back to you, but thanks or watching and commenting. So extending the driveshaft generally doesn't fix the situation that the slip yoke eliminator is designed to fix, which is the terrible driveshaft angle and the effects of that on a single u joint, which can create a terrible vibration. We know that as a universal joint turns it phases, as in speeds up and slows down, but does not maintain a steady speed, putting a slip yoke eliminator allows you to use a double cardan drive shaft with opposing ujoints and lends to a much steadier speed while also smoothing things out and completely eliminating the possibility of a driveshaft falling out from flexing a slip yoke because the driveshaft is now bolted to the yoke. Extending the driveshaft may enable to keep the driveshaft engaged with the slip yoke, but the bad angles and phasing are still there. Hope this helps. No steering correction, my kit is spring under so the steering geometry is still acceptable for the most part.

[@nuttyoffroad4304]

Ok so I have a 2014 hilux with spring under how do I lift it with out replacing the leaf spring

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watchimg and commenting. The only way to really lift your hilux and not replace the springs is to get an extended shackle, usually you can get an inch or two of lift with taller shackles but it can change driveshaft angles and caster angles on the front. You can also go spring over if you choose, you wouldnt necessarily need to change springs but the steering and other components would need addressed.

[@wahyuyudhayudha5940]

👍👍👍

[@yamillvaldovinos6658]

Want to lower my 06 Colorado and don’t know which leaf spring to flip because there are 4 springs, any help???

[@MrClubeg6]

The 3rd one

[@bjellison905]

Why not just switch to a CV style instead of universal that claims to handle 4 inches of lift? In preparing to by one is why I'm asking

[@ruedasmoises]

You need a slip yoke mandatory I put a 4 inch lift on my YJ and snapped my drivetrain and transfer case and the tow truck it was a nightmare

[@brucewayne-ej3cx]

Thank you I will do it

[@GusgusA1]

is that including a new driveshaft or keeps old. sorry I'm new to this

[@mrshinybald2739]

The 79 LandCruiser is one of the only solid axle vehicles that is current in Australia and widely available.... They run a spring under pack and they're not even in the top 5 4x4s in the Australian bush.... Under packs get caught up on everything

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

I completely understand what youre saying man, they can for sure get caught up on a wide variety of things, I actually made skid plates for my Jeep to help out with that and not snag the ubolts as bad, but alas, every design has flaws. The 79's seem pretty awesome and Id love to see one in person, but I also get what youre saying, I watch a ton of shows from your way, I see patrols and hilux's walking circles around them while the 79 is usually hanging around with one wheel in the air, if only there was a perfect 4x4.... Seriously though, thanks so much for watching and commenting, Im quite infatuated with your country and really appreciate your opinion!!!

[@mrshinybald2739]

@@SmallTimeMotorsports look... The LandCruiser is a work truck, the base model here is 80k aud and it doesn't even come with a cd player with wind windows.... Their best point however is one of their worst... Turbo V8 running 145kw is very low ... For reference, the 1grfe 4.0l v6 Hilux comes out at 185kw.... The plus side to this however is an engine that is low stress and will last forever haha.... I personally love the petrol v6, they are not popular here

[@mrshinybald2739]

@@SmallTimeMotorsports jeep Wranglers are some of the best crawlers in the bush... They're just a bitch to get parts for here in Australia haha

[@ZChristopher22]

Are you based out of Alabama? Rusty’s is right down the way from my area if your around the 256.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watching man, no, unfortunately not in Alabama, but I do make my way down there to Talladega for the spring race every year. Hopefully ill make it down one day to check out Rustys place.

[@coreygrace4856]

I never had a problem with block. I like way better than a lift spring. Lift springs are to rough. Never had axle wrap and that was with 8v and 35s.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for your comment and for watching. Lift springs are much rougher for sure but 1000 times more stable. Many people like to use blocks with the stock springs and for your application it just may be the best choice, it provides a very flexible and compliant spring and load characteristics, but have a tendency to flatten or crack leaves with blocks. Some people never experience axle wrap, some people total their vehicles the first time it happens because the axle relieves itself from the entire vehicle, some people just snap their transfer case or yoke off the rear end, Its a game of chance that ill sit out of playing. Its awesome that you've had good luck with it, I really hope it continues for you!!!

[@Mr.Beastforpresident]

Aaron Lewis is that you?

[@dvldawggs]

No because he is not holding a cig and cussing up a storm and storming off the stage bc people will not keep their fucking mouth shut.

[@bartbarnett2811]

So say you do a spring under conversion on a 1500 truck wouldn't you get more suspension travel because of the distance between eye to eye is larger and make the suspension softer

[@fxrsniper1]

RUBICON EXPRESS 5.5" SPRING-OVER CONVERSION KIT

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

If I need to make this thing bigger.....theres a distinct possibility that might happen.

[@fxrsniper1]

@@SmallTimeMotorsports I was considering it I have a pro comp 4'' lift now that I installed back in 2008 and a 1'' body lift just to give a little extra clearance for the tires.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Sounds like a monster, what size tires do you have stuffed there?

[@landc8442]

SUA can work great if set up properly. Most(I would say all but their might be a kit I'm not aware of) sua lift kits are designed poorly with leafs that are badly designed, generic shocks that aren't valved right, and shackles that are mismatched for the setup. This gives a harsh ride, and poor suspension travel.

[@allraiders420]

Can you make a video about lifting the front end on blocks on vehicles with leaf spring over the axel and what lengths of struts to buy with different lift heights?

[@user-rt5ip3kv1t]

which is the best leaf steret or cureve

[@user-bq2we9lg7b]

Thank you for your video，but my English is poor, i can't understand it well, can you summarize it with a short sentence, which is convenient for me to understand.thanks

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Both are good when used right, Easier for spring under axle, cheaper for spring under axle, spring over axle is a very advanced set up, many more problems can happen. hope this helps

[@user-bq2we9lg7b]

@@SmallTimeMotorsports Thank you very much for your reply.

[@kenneychappuis1853]

What the hell is buzzing in the audio ?

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Lol, those are cicada, at first I thought maybe a heater I use out there was buzzing but this is a summer video. The cicada and crickets can get pretty loud here in southern Indiana some nights, you almost tune them out living here.

[@ballard12]

Track bars in leaf spring vehicle do nothing but bind the suspension. When the axle goes up and down the leaf spring wants to to forward and back and the track bar wants to go side to side. They are 2 completely different things. For a stock jeep that sees nothing but the road that’s fine. But anything that you want any sort of articulation out of throw that shit in the scrap pile. Waste of money 100%

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

The case could be made for getting a vehicle that articluates if you want articulation so badly, so sure, throwing some floppy flat flexy leafs on there with no track bars youll articulate almost half as good as coils and steer with zero accuracy, sounds like a great compromise, might as well throw some boomerang shackles at it and a 3 inch body lift too, not to mention just going gonzo with a welder and fixing up those pesky open diffs and ripping off the sways so you can really flex, right, lol (All are bad ideas btw)

[@ballard12]

Lol damn someone’s a little butthurt... you 100% over exaggerated that entire thing lol.

[@looseconnection4134]

Another show that younger people watch, drinking while working Sad

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Though I understand your concern, this video is a chat video, no work being performed except the filming itself. I have several pointers through my videos on safety and my concern for it, also to note is that my demographic is far past the drinking age and is totally appropriate for them and very inline with the home garage and auto enthusiast. Thanks for watching and your concern for the viewers of this channel!

[@dozer1642]

Loose Connection a guy sitting in front of a camera talking about four wheeling and drinking alcohol at pace if about one beer per hour is a problem? What in God’s green earth could be wrong with that? You should go hide somewhere. The Men are doing things out here.

[@dontdoit6403]

I dont drink period.. but that's not your concern

[@hillbillyhobopowders6239]

Wow I'm almost 60 and enjoy a good cold one from time to time while having a conversation. Worse thing he could have done was bite off his own lip. I will never understand why someone's always making comments that could have been better left alone.