Transcribing Complex Music by Ear: Real-Time Demonstration and Process

[@maxkonyi]

My app, Sonofield Ear Trainer, is almost here! Sign-up here to be notified when SET releases for iOS and Android: www.sonic-sorcery.com/set

[@lofilo666]

I've been watiing for this for so long, i cannot wait.

[@johndonello8259]

is there an eta on release? singed up!

[@mariuscarre5137]

Hey max, is it possible to try your Beta ?

[@Scarshockable]

Cant wait !!

[@mypetmoose2079]

Can we please just get an estimate on when? Are we talking 3 weeks, or 3 months here? Super excited to try it out!

[@opolo704]

This is an absolute godsend for any beginners. At this current point I can already transcribe the complex stuff by ear but back when I was still clueless of anything that went out of the key, I wondered how the process went and this would've been amazing to see. Also amazing song choices truly 🔥

[@MattRid]

I’m an absolute beginner with no knowledge and Max got me thinking about music everyday now!

[@cupidok2768]

I wanna train with him did u sign up his 1 on 1?

[@krissvanags]

i'm a beginner and he lost me at the very beginning. How can he tell that G sounds like a 4? From where? How? After that i stopped video and couldn't continue.

[@SoleilLourdes]

​@@krissvanags when he said "thats 4" he just meant that G is the fourth degrees of a D major scale. D is the tonic or the first note scale from where you got D major then you have E as the second note scale from where you get E minor then F# from where you get F# minor then G the fourth note scale from where you get G major...etc He just demonstrate the initial process of how to find chords. 1) guess the tonality of the song. Of course there will be modulations but songs in general start and end on the same key 2) have in mind the chords qualities of your scale D major E minor F# minor G major A major B minor C# diminished. The more you know chords inversions, extensions the more it will be easy for you to find chords. 3) Then play just the melody and focus on the trajectory of it 4) Focus on the bass mouvement 5) Play both the melody and the bass. Lets say you hear a B on the bass and a D on the melody. Try to guess which chord it could be ? G first inversion. Or E minor 7 ( D is the 7th minor and B the fifth )... Since the baroque era bass and melody are the key structure of a chord. If you hear both of them you good to go. Dont forget to focus on the feeling you get from the chord. If you feel that the chord generate a tension that want to resolve it tells you that its most likely a dominant or a Ve degres or a substitution tritonic from that Ve degres or it could be a VIIe degres which is a Ve without the root or it could be a sus chord ...etc If you are a beginner start with easier songs. Bach's chorals are a great way to start i'd suggest. Im french so sorry for my bad english

[@timetraveller2818]

​@@SoleilLourdes Your English is incredible

[@HurriedDragons]

These are exactly the sort of super useful videos I have sought out before (skilled people breaking down their process of understanding songs by ear) but could never find. Please do more!

[@maxkonyi]

Good to know!

[@consti1157]

Please do this more often. As a beginner this is such a good way of understanding of how everything works together

[@swaggyboi-nk9rb]

wow even just getting the tonic right made me so happy, the future looks bright 🤩, thank you Max

[@hesamg1343]

This is what makes youtube shine! 🌟 Without people like you Max, sharing you hard work and knowledge, youtube would be like fishing in a dead sea.

[@maxkonyi]

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@poruumusic]

RIP SHAUN ❤️❤️❤️😭

[@JAYDUBYAH29]

Easily the best (and favorite) ear training teacher i have come across. Always excited to see a new video by you, Max.

[@marceloxvieira]

2:35 oh, my God!!! I don’t believe I managed to find out the key by myself even before he mentioned what it was!!! Amazing! Thanks for the video!

[@ringocancount]

Solid video dude! I like to learn songs by ear on piano and you've given me some really useful tips. Especially love that ii minor 9 chord in a minor key - the major 3rd is so well disguised!

[@maxkonyi]

Yeah, what a great sound. Then you iterate on the idea - what other chords can sneak the major 3rd in? IVmaj7 bVII(#11) bVImaj7#5 vm6 And then inversions...lots of tasty options.

[@ashandesilvaguitarist]

got all roots right just by ear. i must get into transcribing intervals of melodies by ear. thank you for this mark. inspiring video!

[@Aalrol4444]

This is extremely fun to watch, pls make more videos like this. New sub

[@rubenoliveira5305]

Excited to test your app! Nice video!

[@mopsydaisy]

Did not see you write down a single note. Amazing, given the video's title.

[@maxkonyi]

lol this is the comment I've been waiting for

[@Untoldanimations]

This nourishes my soul

[@cpinter10]

I'm really glad you did The Yellow Jacket!

[@maxkonyi]

Cpinter! Glad you like that track as well

[@itsRemco]

Niceee, I wish you good luck with your app!

[@emiljohnDR]

Really enjoyed this. I feel like this could be a good regular series in your channel

[@maxkonyi]

Perhaps!

[@oscarwong67]

Your musical choices were lovely!

[@CooldudeTJ911]

Amazing video this is the goal I don’t know how long it’s gonna take but eventually I’ll be able to transcribe like this

[@trigelvza]

Wow! Thank you for sharing your hard-earned knowledge, brother. Merry Christmas. You've earned a sub.

[@davidsummerville351]

Thanks so much. I'm getting better on the chromatic drone ear training video. What a challenge! Very cool stuff.

[@TaveZgg]

Played yellow jacket at my grad recital for my bachelors and had to work out a lot of the chords too! Was a fun time for sure :)

[@maxkonyi]

Nice! That's great.

[@massylsow2221]

thank you so much, so much added value in your content

[@kaavimusic]

beautful vid. u started my ear training journey and i can hear a decent bit of this appreciate it!

[@maxkonyi]

Nice! Happy to hear it

[@jonathanstephensmusic]

This is a great demonstration!

[@StonesiferDrew]

I was all fired up about you getting the tonic wrong in Lingering Blossom then went to my keyboard and realized the only difference was you felt it was minor and I felt it was major. 😅 Cooled my jets real quick after that. Fun listen!

[@kelvinwong3779]

What an amazing video. Thank you!

[@guyedwards22]

I may be totally wrong, but I think that third chord in Lingering blossom is a kind of detuned Maj7b5 on F. The bass note starts slightly sharp of E and settles on it after about a second. Maj7b5 isn't a "textbook" chord label, it can be thought of as a tight voicing of Maj7add#11 with the usual excluding of the 5th, but I think its emotional qualities are pretty distinct from the latter, so I tend to call it something different.

[@maxkonyi]

Are you talking about the chord at 6:10?

[@guyedwards22]

​@@maxkonyi Yeah! I'm listening again after having gotten some sleep, and I think I hear some kind of b2 in there (considering A as 1). To me, it definitely feels like either Bbmaj7b5 or Fmaj7b5 for a split second. I've experimented with pitch bending through the intervals packed between the third and fifth of a chord when harmonies land on "lydian" sounding chords like maj7#11s or maj7b5s, and the pitch instabilities in this song are reminding me of those chords. I might very well be projecting something I want to hear 😅 What do you think?

[@IvegottobeFrank]

The intro is basically quoting James by Pat Metheny

[@TomasJochmann]

No, just Max started to sing it like it was James by changing a few notes which are not actually there ;)

[@TomasJochmann]

But yes, later there is James in the melody :)

[@dhpbear2]

12:31 - I love how 'Haze' displays her pianistic wares!

[@ConnorGrayMusic]

The dude in action

[@abhicrax]

wow,genius max 🔥😍

[@violentlysick1995]

Your approach has done so much for my appreciation of harmony/tonality, and how it’s best approached when working! So excited to try the app! May I ask if there’s an expected release date? Thank you once again! :)

[@maxkonyi]

Releasing before the new year if all goes well... Just in the final stages now.

[@goneaerial41]

The intro to "The Yellow Jacket" is the melody from "James" by Pat Metheny.

[@LucBoeren]

thanks a lot, just what i needed!

[@TonhoHumilde]

Another one from the greatest himself 🫡

[@DamamakeBeats-RnB]

Those piano skills!

[@Barushia]

Brilliant! Thank you so much. I am really frustrated cause I can never seem to figure out a whole song, never mind a complex jazz song😅 I usually get the first chords but if there are chords outside of the tonics scale I am completely lost.

[@maxkonyi]

I will make some more videos on chord recognition soon...

[@tricksunset2752]

You should check out the album Zenna by Wandering Monster. It has some sections which are close to free jazz in a few of the tracks.

[@maxkonyi]

So then, why would I want to check that out? 😉

[@fedorvoronovcomposer]

1:09 do you know what is weird, I can name the names of notes on any instrument, but the voice, so if I hear someone play D, I'd be like "that's D4" but not with singing, sorry for off topic comments 😅

[@torterrakart7249]

It’s exactly the same for me!

[@LuisJimenez-nd2pl]

Great content

[@m3ng0789]

Actually I heard this song long ago, but never realized it is actually so similar to pat matheney's James.

[@maxkonyi]

You "The Yellow Jacket"? James is a great tune...

[@colognialist1964]

Hey Max - awesome skill.... Great explanation... what should I say? Harmonic sorcerer

[@jeffh5388]

Thank you.

[@aleph4474]

when you try to find the tonic do you search for the relative major tonic or just stick with whatever mode you're in? It seems like the feeling of resolution of the tonic for other modes is not the same as the one from the major mode tonic

[@opolo704]

You can't really control what tonic your brain goes to first but you can learn to recognize what type of tonic it is. If you can differentiate between when you're singing a minor vs a major tonic then you'll be fine, cuz for other modes you can just think of them as alterations of those two scales. If you hear a minor tonic but you also heard a 6 in there instead of a b6, then you know it's dorian for example

[@maxkonyi]

For me, there are two feelings - one is the sense of tonicness, and the other is the feeling of the overall mode. I'm interested in whatever my ear actually perceives and will follow that instead of trying to impose an idea of what the tonic should be.

[@sprenzy42]

although im not fast at scale degree but i can identify the key, the melody and the bass but the hardest thing for me is the harmony, quality and voicing, major, minor sus, altered dim dom what ever all that is super hard. Of course i can infer based on the key but i want to actually HEAR it and FEEL it, i can already feel the scale degree just not the quality. and especially hearing as the chord changes. i'm assuming cause the your ear changes with the chord being played i just dont know how to do it, even the songs i know how to play that are in my vocabulary in my hands, intellectually i know what chord it is cause i analyze and studied it but i still cannot hear it and feel it and know it

[@opolo704]

I get where you're at, here's the thing. You will only instinctually acquire any aspect by consciously recognizing it enough times in music. If you can infer the chord based on the key for example then you're already halfway there. At that point all that's left is to infer the chord enough times in real music to where it becomes instinctual. You've probably had this moment listening to music where you instinctually hear something (a chord, a melody, a sound...) that reminds you of another song right? It's the same thing, but we're actually putting a name to it here. So really just focus on finding the chord you're hearing by whatever means possible (theory, guessing on the keyboard), and after enough times hearing it it'll become instinctual. Of course I assume you're figuring out all of this BY EAR, cuz if not it won't work. For quality it's the same thing. If it's an unknown quality try your best to figure it out by guessing or using theory and then when you think you have it, put it under a name and when you hear it consciously identify it in your head as said quality. After finding it in enough songs it'll soon become instinctual. I highly recommend using the app complete ear trainer to get at least a basic feel for qualities and what kinds there are, but you really just gotta jump into the music you like and figure it out. What'll happen is something like this: You hear a sound you like, you try to figure out what it is. I hear a 2 in the bass and we're in major so it's the ii chord. You're then later figuring out a new song. I hear a 2 in the bass and we're in major so it's the ii again I see. After a couple of times you will hear the ii chord and go wait is that the ii chord thing? Then test it out, and bam it's the ii chord, you got it. After that you'll start to just know without having to even check. Although in my experience you usually will hear chord moves first. So like you might not necessarily feel the ii chord directly but you might recognize a certain chord progression or move like if you figured out a song that went IV-V-iii-vi and then in another song you hear something that reminds you of that progression and think wait isn't that like that other song and when you take a look at it you might see oh it's the iii going to the vi so it IS like that other song. So essentially what I'm trying to say is that you can't control when that instinctual understanding will come, you can only figure out as much music as possible until it happens. And let me tell you, IT HAPPENS. Quite quickly in my experience (if you're doing enough songs). Just figure out music and register it under whatever names you give it so that your brain starts trying to see what those two things have in common until it completely understands what a ii chord for example really sounds like

[@maxkonyi]

This just means you haven't had enough experience paying attention to the feeling state of a given thing and giving it a consistent label. There is no difference, in essence, between the feeling state of a scale degree, chord number, or chord quality. Have you seen my previous video "The Perfect Ear Training Routine"?

[@WilliamCarterII]

All good, but I just recognized it as Oh Give Thanks by Judith McAllister set in a different key and with a different rhythm

[@DarrinNoNAME]

Awesome video. I need to do more ear training and transcribe with some better perspective instead of blindly trying to do it. Also Rest In Peace, Shaun Martin. 🙏🏽

[@OskarSvan]

RIP Shaun !

[@maxkonyi]

🙏🏼💗🙏🏼

[@kelvinwong3779]

12:18 that sounds like a Esus to me am I missing the G?

[@maxkonyi]

Nope, you're right! Its a E9sus4. Thought I heard the G while recording but I guess I was just hearing the implication due to the key.

[@duncanjones7310]

nice video, would be cool to see you listen to do some reinier baas or bev van gelder

[@maxkonyi]

Hmm, I don't recognize either name! I'll have to check them out.

[@duncanjones7310]

@@maxkonyi they're from amsterdam, really great, their album with the metropole orkest is definitely worth checking out, 2nd coming of homunculus.. manifold great too

[@augustbramming4926]

wow thanks man

[@alicelibertas]

Would you analyse Middle Eastern / Turkish music too ??

[@maxkonyi]

I can try! I do have a good number of tracks from that part of the world in my collection, which I love, but I'm sure I will miss some intricacies since I'm not familiar enough.

[@alicelibertas]

@@maxkonyi i can also give you some recommendations :) baris manco, altin gün. they inspired me to make turkish music now, bc i just love the song structures and the intricate embellished melodies

[@maxkonyi]

@@alicelibertas Thank you! I will take a listen...

[@SaltyMusicOne]

Opening sounds like James by pat metheny

[@maxkonyi]

Love that song. Also heavy on the triads and inversions.

[@KeithEndre]

Release the app 🥴

[@maxkonyi]

So close...

[@KeithEndre]

@maxkonyi is there a window to expect it by

[@Faune13]

@@KeithEndreif you are clever enough, you may enjoy it sooner^^

[@KeithEndre]

@@Faune13 I've been trying these methods myself but it's not easy switching keys and not giving myself a hint sort of speak

[@maxkonyi]

@@KeithEndre Before the new year!

[@4elijah028]

Do more

[@IsakuItou]

Christmas is over! When is it coming now? Any Idea? Come on and take my money! 🎉🎉

[@maxkonyi]

Ha! Early January. Going through the release process at the moment...

[@joestrobe5318]

Sounds a lot like "James" by Pat Metheny to me. It's also in D.

[@maxkonyi]

You are now the 4th person to mention that haha. I also love that song. I don't know for sure, but I imagine the title "The Yellow Jacket" has some connection to the group "Yellowjackets", who also have some very triadic influenced jazz stuff, such as "Spirit of the West".

[@juancarlosesparzarivera8690]

what if I first caught the melody in the first song? I was confused by the melody and the bass of the harmony (D)

[@maxkonyi]

I'm not sure what you mean exactly...

[@orionionion]

for the first one, how do you know it's d major and not d minor? i can definitely feel that tonic note most of the time but categorizing major as "happy" and minor as "sad" often fails when determining major/minor

[@maxkonyi]

I agree that happy/sad is not a good description, however, every mode has its own feeling state which you can learn to recognize, just like individual degrees and chords. Major, minor, mixolydian, dorian, melodic minor, etc. are very identifiable by overall feeling.

[@azorailke6057]

It's rare to see a "full-on" music channel featuring Genshin music, which is a shame. There's a lot of great music in that extensive soundtrack. What are some of your other favorite tracks from Genshin?

[@maxkonyi]

I have playlist which contains most of my favourites. Probably not up to date with the latest expansions but you can check it out here: open.spotify.com/playlist/654W0jvxm6ugmr06zRm9GH?si=3eb324cb2fd640ed

[@azorailke6057]

@@maxkonyi That's an excellent selection. Thank you for sharing. I see that you are particularly more fond of pieces composed by Yu-Peng Chen. Alas, he had left the music team for the game. Starting the Fontaine expansion, he was completely hands off in the making of the soundtrack. He was my favorite too. Anyway, I enjoyed your video and have subscribed to you. I look forward to seeing more of your videos!

[@maxkonyi]

@@azorailke6057 Oh interesting, I wasn't aware. Do you have tracks I should check out from other composers for the game? I'd be curious to hear the stylistic differences.

[@yuvalseithlayon1444]

3:53 what makes you think...

[@em8714]

Would genshin not be easier taking it as being in f, modally. Starts on dominant of the subdominant and then minor plagal will bring it back to tonic (functioning dominant)

[@maxkonyi]

You could technically do that, of course, but for me, perception trumps theory and I will always name things in accordance with how I hear/feel them. I don't perceive F as feeling like a tonic chord here, as it would in a true Lydian context. The Am has a very strong resolution quality, especially since the we arrive there from E, and the melody targets it.

[@consti1157]

Any tips for learning how to even hear the bass notes?

[@maxkonyi]

Have you seen my video called "The Perfect Ear Training Routine"? There is some info in there. Otherwise, just begin trying and setting the intention to hear them in everything you listen to. It's also worth learning to play or sing some lines if you've never done that.

[@opolo704]

Use a stem separator and listen to the bass by itself. Then go and listen to the original song and try to hear it. This is what I did back when I just couldn't pick out the bass and it did wonders

[@maxkonyi]

@@opolo704 Interesting idea!

[@JayL-]

Use quality speakers or quality headphones/earbuds. You won't hear bass notes through a phone speaker.

[@NeerajSharma-xo9hd]

Maybe slow it down using DAW and listen to it for more clarity!

[@maxkonyi]

I use an app called Transcribe! when I need to go super slow, which does happen!

[@bazingacurta2567]

14:53, how is a G chord in D a V chord?

[@maxkonyi]

Sorry I didn't play the left hand root there. Take that chord and put an A in the bass and you'll see the A13

[@bazingacurta2567]

@maxkonyi Thanks! This is top tier content. There's a lot to go about here. I'm definitely subscribing.

[@DamamakeBeats-RnB]

🔥🔥🔥

[@iVeridianhobbyproducer]

Hey Max, I'm a self taught producer and have followed you for about 2 weeks and was curious if you could like, privately or not privately help me analyze my music and understand it better? I write tons of songs and am very very proud of them, and have practiced sound design and music production for almost 8 years, which means my sound selection and design is somewhat different. What I need help with is understanding what resolutions and things I could be missing in my arrangements after identifying the previous tonics I use. It makes it difficult to finish tracks especially after harmonizing leads and melodies with alternating pads and chords. It's led me to recognize a pattern of sub-conscious repetition in my writing that I hope to break?

[@maxkonyi]

For sure. I have a form you can fill out if you're interested in doing some sessions: docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScPzGNWMEsi5JqmsasrKPcjC3PEaC8jhNtP7pTC7DBrgNLkIw/viewform

[@iVeridianhobbyproducer]

@@maxkonyi Bet! wow! thank you so much!

[@ThorshammerT]

Thank you, Max! How do you transcribe vocal melody to keys or other instrument?

[@maxkonyi]

Are you asking how I know how to play a vocal melody that I hear on an instrument?

[@ThorshammerT]

@@maxkonyi Yes. The timber of vocals is always problem for me to play the same melody on instrument correctly.

[@maxkonyi]

@@ThorshammerT For me, it became easier just through repetition. I would sing back the melody and feel the scale degrees until I was certain, and then listen to the song again with the degrees in mind. I talk about this in my recent video "The Perfect Ear Training Routine". With exposure, intent, and repetition, your mind becomes able to hear 'through' the timbre and lyrics and focus in on the degrees. Then, this becomes very familiar and you can do it without effort. I still make mistakes all the time though...

[@ThorshammerT]

@@maxkonyi Thanks!

[@cheribarkman1784]

Ty.

[@opolo704]

16:51 The resolving to the major chord instead of the minor 1 is also known as the picardy third

[@maxkonyi]

It's true but you won't catch me saying it 😎

[@el-bov8034]

@@maxkonyi make it so ;)

[@opolo704]

@@maxkonyi Too cool for baroque theory terms

[@BlessedOne686]

Your app isn’t available atm?

[@maxkonyi]

Check the pinned comment!

[@GeraldoHBulhoes1]

The higher notes makes this almost a Pat Metheny s James plagio .

[@StonesiferDrew]

Wish there was a way to get the chord annotations to show up with respect to the key you’re in. I.e. when we’re in Bm and it shows a Gb chord my brain hurts 😂

[@maxkonyi]

There is! You have to set the key in chordwatch ahead of time but I'm lazy so... Sorry for your brain, and mine.

[@StonesiferDrew]

@ ah. Chordwatch. I’ll check it out. Thinking about firing up a little channel myself but not sure how to get the visuals to show up for people who want to see that stuff. Been fun to see the evolution of your channel. Brave of you to keep 13 year old videos up 😆

[@maxkonyi]

@@StonesiferDrew Nice! You should. CW is a good tool for that. Yeah, I like people to know that we all make progress over time. I'll do a video sometime going over my earliest compositions... there's some hilarious stuff in there 😎

[@fedorvoronovcomposer]

2:39 you do have perfect pitch, you just don't asign the pitches to their names 😮

[@maxkonyi]

I've tried!

[@Wulfhartus]

Just tried with method with hermeto pascoal music and ended up in hospital

[@josdurkstraful]

Wouldn't it be better if you spell the chords with the right enharmonic note names? There is for example no Gb in a D chord and it looks strange.

[@maxkonyi]

Agreed! I forgot to set the key in Chordwatch.

[@G.TranscriptionsAndDidactics]

Che lavoraccio😅

[@smiljanicn]

Anyone in for a challenge? Try transcribing track "On", "The Rule Of 13" or anything by one and only Mattias IA Eklundh. You have been warned for stepping into rabbit hole.

[@maxkonyi]

Mattias is a boss.

[@TroubleinZION]

Part with strings: It’s not a two chord it’s a chord that is not diatonic to the key. I’ll grab a guitar in a second and let you know what it is.

[@maxkonyi]

Let me know what you think. It's definitely a two chord to me, just not the diatonic one. It's 'borrowed' from the parallel mixoydian. The ii should be half-dim, here it is 9sus4 with the melody hitting the D, implying a m9 overall, which is the natural ii of mixo. It contains the major 3 and major 6 in respect to the tonic. The melody also hits a G, not G#, implying mixo instead of ionian.

[@TroubleinZION]

@@maxkonyiD add 9 with an F# in the bass.

[@maxkonyi]

@@TroubleinZION There is a B a fifth underneath that F#. There is also a C# in the voicing. However, playing a Dmaj9 would give a similar effect, which is also great.

[@tytrdev]

Intro melody sounds like a PMG song

[@tytrdev]

James by Pat Metheny Group

[@maxkonyi]

@@tytrdev You're the third person to say that so far 😎 I agree! I also love that song.

[@marceloreview]

Pentatonic thing iguess 7:09

[@peterkovacs9951]

Pentanic

[@mentalitydesignvideo]

good job, but that's hardly "complex music"

[@maxkonyi]

Though I agree with you, this stuff is far more complex than what I did in my first video, and would be considered complex to many viewers. That being said, I'd be happy to do an "actually complex" video soon! I have my own thoughts on what to listen to in that, but I'm curious to hear what you would consider complex music...