Maybe quit doing this?

This could cause issues! In this video I talk with you about what happens when you lower your pulling weight on your compound bow by backing out the limbs. There's a lot of "cause and affect" that happens.

[@jons7e]

Nice video. Everyone should own a press and draw board to better understand how their bow works and how to work on it

[@The_Judge300]

This is totally wrong. Most people should NOT have that as most people don't have the knowledge and skills needed for it and they will most likely do something wrong instead of learning anything at all. MANY people damage and even destroy their bows doing what you say that all should because they think they know what they are doing when the reality is that they don't. Most people should bring their bows to professionals that are serious and know what they are doing. Most people should NOT be tinkering with their bows at all.

[@jons7e]

@@The_Judge300 I get what you're saying, but the professionals you're talking about are just your average guy that learned from working on their own bows If you watch the videos that Nock On Archery publish, as well as others on KZbin, you'll find no shortage of information on how to work on a bow, and it's really not that complicated. So I agree that bows should be worked on carefully and correctly, and if you have no desire to learn than you shouldn't, but I can promise you that no shop cares about your equipment like you will, and you can't be the best archer you can be if you don't know how to work on your own bow.

[@thenameiwantedwastaken]

Most people should get thier bows set up and tuned and then leave them TF alone. This constant KZbin mentality of tinkering with your set up only benefits people selling archery gear and often leads to frustration. If you want to get better, spend more time shooting your bow and less time watching Archery KZbinrs.

[@knuckledragger2412]

Lol. You can tell who owns or works at bow shops in these comments. Best thing I ever did was buy a press and draw board. Too many garbage bow shops these days to not own your own stuff. For example, the premier bow shop in our area doesn't own a draw board. The owner looked me right in the eyes and told me Zebra Strings are the best on the market. Let that sink in.... Definitely fletch your own arrows unless you want to be forced into right helical. Definitely get your own equipment if you're handy. I have never shot better since I bought my own equipment and quit letting people who have no attention to detail set up or work on my bow.

[@jowho9992]

​@@The_Judge300 Job Security?

[@ericperry2115]

much appreciated when a expert bow mechanic and world caliber archer shares knowledge !!!! CHEERS BROTHER

[@sdr224]

Holy cow John. I took my target bow from 54lbs to its max of 60 today and I felt the difference. Less vibration and more consistency. Thanks for making this video.

[@1337Miller]

These are great details to know about when backing out your bolts. I backed mine out to get more reps in for the summer. turning them back in 2 months out from hunting so I can ensure everything is dialed in 100%.

[@ShaneWilliamson1]

The ATA would of been shorter when you let the limb bolts out not longer

[@juliusjames5577]

I was wondering about that.

[@MotoDUDEabides]

Agreed

[@jasonard7227]

yea I was like what

[@kansasarcherycenter1004]

I'm still wondering what brace "hith" is

[@The_Judge300]

100% Him saying it became longer made zero sense.

[@PoeOutdoors]

Anything changes that come from backing limb bolts out can easily be fixed with mod adjustments/swaps, string/cable twists, etc. Especially when you consider all of the aftermarket cable stops on the market for several bow brands.

[@ThePopypete]

Thank you SO MUCH .I'm just starting my research about getting BACK into Archery after a 30 year lay off because of shoulder problems . Boy things have changed a LOT .😅😅

[@markkahler1130]

John, asking this question as you are talking about accuracy. Maybe this would be a video idea for you in the future..."When twisting your cables, how much does each twist add to the bows draw lenght? Does 1 twist equal 1/32 or 1/16?" I find that twisting cables is almost absolutely neccessay to find that perfect draw lengh but i struggle to know how much is needed. Hoping you may add your insight. Thank you and keep the videos coming!

[@PersonalBestOutdoors]

Axle to axle is longer when backing the Limb bolts out? No... brace height increases, and ATA becomes shorter. Greater brace height would also net a reduction in speed.

[@raymondjones6024]

Mathews has the patent on the Switch weight modules that keeps the limbs bottomed out for efficiency at 60 65 70 75 and 80lbs that has different size humps in the modules to apply different pressures on the control cables for poundages without dealing with different limb options just another innovation that is protected by a patent the Mathews has once again.

[@wilmerdecontie5174]

I don't know a better person that knows bows better than John Dudley !!

[@dewboy910]

You are comparing apples to apples IF you reduce the draw length after reducing the weight in order to maintain your correct draw length. In other words, the bow with the backed out limbs is going to be slower, mainly due to the fact that it has a longer Brace Height. If you do not correct the draw length after backing down the limbs, it is not an apples to apples comparison because the do not have the same draw length!

[@tools4spoons]

Thank you for sharing this info 🙏

[@Bluesplayer789]

Sweet that you have yhe deluxe reverb in the shop. I have the same amp... another killer in the dojo 🤙

[@bbmas1930]

So John, aside from maybe correcting actual draw length with the mods, do you recommend first putting the bow back to spec ( ATA and brace) as much as possible with cable/string twists. I realise that if you drop 10lb there's probably only so much you can do but should you at least get it back in the ball park and will that or will that not help preserve things like valley, back wall feel etc?

[@giveerhelloutdoors2648]

Im not expert AT ALL. But that’s exactly how I figured out how much I could draw without dying over time. Sat on my ass, drew, shot. Turned it up. Sat, drew, shot. Very good technique to figure out if you are capable. Takes way more strength on your butt.

[@slippystevie]

My local shot had me actually change to a longer draw. I know weird but hear me out. I’m 6’2” and went from 30” 77# to 30.5 maxed V3 to 30.5 73# and gained speed and accuracy. Correct draw length makes a world of difference whether you go longer and or shorter. Speed kills but accuracy slays!

[@kveritas1]

So, this video is complete opinion and proves nothing. Why? You didn’t show us the actual specs of the bow prior to turning out the limb bolts. You didn’t show us what the actual draw weight was before and after turning out the limb bolts. And you took half a turn less out of one limb. There is no way you changed brace by a half inch with just 10lb. As an example, just checked my Hoyt RX8. 2.5 turns out brings it from 70 to 62. Both brace and ATA changed less than a 1/16”. If you really want to prove your point, redo the video. Show the DW, brace, ATA, and measured DL before taking turns out. Take equal number of turns out, and then show DW, brace, ATA and DL. My guess is you won’t be even close to the changes you have in this video. If for some reason you do, then it just shows that PSEs are horribly inefficient.

[@brianfletcher319]

Great video as always.. really like that bow

[@ross7684]

Increasing brace height generally reduces speed which would counter the increase in speed from the added draw length. Is the string actually more taut on a straight 60 lb bow than the string from a 70 lb bow backed down to 60 lbs? Isn't tautness/tension dependent on let-off/holding weight; i.e. 15% (85% let-off) of 60 lbs = 9 lbs in either case?

[@paulwallis4072]

Great info to know!

[@The_Judge300]

Let us be a bit real about this. Yes, it can affect your accuracy. But the reality is that it should NOT affect your accuracy enough to not hit the vitals of a deer at distances that most bowhunters by far should keep their shots inside. For archery competitions it is something different. Bow hunters should NOT be worried about this at all and should focus on getting good form and accuracy instead. Practice, practice and then practice some more. The loss of speed can be compensated by using different broadheads.

[@Terpedup925]

What about if I’m upping the poundage? I started with 55lbs I’m now at 60lbs and want to go up. Been building my strength

[@The_Judge300]

First of all do you need to ask yourself if you need to go higher than 60lbs. Secondly, from what position can you shoot many shots with precision and with little to no muscle or joint pain when at 60lbs? If you shoot standing up and can shoot many arrows in one session without any problems and with good precision, you should work on being able to do the same sitting down. If that is still no problem, then you can consider to get a bow with a higher poundage if you are sure you need one for your use. I am not saying that you shouldn't get higher if that is something you really want or need. I am only saying that you should ask yourself if you really need it and why you want it. I shoot 60, 70 and 80lbs bows myself, but I do so only because I hunt all sorts of animals on this planet and for some of them a 60 or even a 70lbs bow is a bit to weak and I see no point in me using my 80lbs bow on whitetails and similar sized animals. And if I was hunting whitetails only in areas were all shots are inside 30 yards, I would be totally happy having a 50lbs bow only. My 15 year old daughter have total pass throughs on whitetails out to 30 yards with her 40lbs bow and she also had a total passthrough on the one elk bull that she shot at 22 yards.

[@Terpedup925]

@@The_Judge300 thanks. I understand all what you said. My question was more on does anything change on the bow when moving up in poundage. Because he’s saying things change when you lower the poundage.

[@jasonard7227]

the draw length wasnt that much off if at all if you watch when the stops first hit the cables it was dead on then you cranked like another half turn bending the cables in more then she ever would pulling through the shot I would think

[@o.n.e.wayhunting]

Watched it again, going frame by frame, and he acutally takes the handle about 1/4 turn both times beyond when the stops hit the cables. Fair comparison.

[@cmockb2]

Great video Dud

[@kyleviola1024]

Hey, you probably know way more about archery than I do. However I'm pretty sure that the speed you get from a bow your draw length is relative to brace height. You stated that brace height increased and draw length increased I think these two would offset each other and there wouldn't be a change in powerstroke of the bow as you stated.

[@jasonard7227]

yea but John is the bow God and he craps on others like Troy if they are not on his level well in this video he says a few things that are wrong and if you watch the draw length did not really change he just cranked it more after the stops hit the cables..

[@The_Judge300]

The reality is that the speed change that matters is the loss of speed from lowering the poundage. Any theoretical speed change that happens in John's head has no practical impact at all. Him claiming that the ATA increased when you let the limb bolts out is another example of John's theories that is a bit different from most people's reality. The reality is that about everything he mentioned as downsides of cranking down the poundage apart from loss of speed from that directly, has little to no effect on your accuracy unless you are a high level competition shooter. You missing by 1-2 inches from your point of aim on a deer at 20-30 yards because of this, is not the reason for you not killing the deer. And if you are becoming such a good archer that it matters in competitions, you will be better off having a second lower poundage bow incase you might not be able to shoot your main bow because of an injury or other reasons. I think it is amazing that so many people are still obsessed by a few extra fps when shooting a bow. Shows how good the industry and the pros working for them are at fooling people in buying their new products all the time.

[@ross7684]

@@The_Judge300 Bingo...you nailed it!

[@spencerg6289]

So now with the opposite, what would happen if you had a 60-70# and bump it up to 73-75#?

[@joeversus7113]

You add speed also brace height is smaller. Also just a heads up I see this all the time. When putting more lbs on your bow you must change your string damper length or your going to get a weird nock low.

[@apapay01]

Great video

[@mattb383]

What's up with the Fender Twin on the floor?

[@ronaldirvineII]

Ata would be shorter not longer.

[@bs081502bs]

I’ve always been taught when turning out limb bolts you turn one end out equally and not all on one end and then the other. Let’s say I want to turn them out 4 turns, I turn the top out 1 turn them the bottom 1 turn, then the top another turn, then the bottom another turn and so on and so on till I get 4 turns out. Does anyone have any idea if this really affects anything doing it this way or just a personal preference.

[@sheyanderson4371]

It's just personal preference and one way to make sure your limbs are adjusted equally. Believe it or not, it is really easy to second guess how many turns you do on a limb when it's several in a row. If I ever doubt my counting, I max the limbs out and start over.

[@bs081502bs]

@@sheyanderson4371 whenever I first get a bow and I’m for sure I’m going to back out the limb bolts, I bottom them out. Then I use a silver sharpy and make a mark at 12 o’clock. I helps me keep track of how much I back them out.

[@ross7684]

I was taught the same, but I alternate at 1/2 rotations. I also mark my limb bolts (gold sharpie) at bottomed out position to help keep track of the number of turns.

[@joshcatanzaro6220]

Wish i knew this a few eeeks ago. Oops 🤫 it flipped my peep.

[@thenameiwantedwastaken]

So, what youre saying is Switchweight Mods are the way to go?

[@sheyanderson4371]

Not necessarily, adjusting the limbs is still most practical and affordable. Especially if the adjustment is temporary or

[@thenameiwantedwastaken]

@@sheyanderson4371 I was kinda kidding, given Duds former relationship with Mathews, but, yeah I agree. Winding a bow down only makes sense if you plan to wind it up again at some point as you build strength or overcome an injury.

[@gandalf2256]

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