Mazzer Philos | A Classic Italian Gone Modern

[@SetaRossa83]

A standup applause for the impressive quality of the images in this video. Amazing definition of the details of this beautiful product.

[@brandonfisher9170]

Love the new studio look! Excited to see how it evolves over time.

[@Sprometheus]

Thanks Brandon, I appreciate that. It was a lot of work. You can’t tell from that angle but I painted the entire room matte black from white, still a work in progress though as I think I still need to put up more sound dampening and work a bit more on the layout.

[@coreycannon4511]

Nothing is ever perfect. Every time I think I have my brew bar just right…

[@portnaluinge]

I love the look of this grinder - it looks purposeful and well made. Matches the Decent well too.

[@Sprometheus]

It definitely is a statement piece of a grinder, especially in a market filled with super simple, black tubes haha.

[@nichj487]

I recently had to move a long distance, and needed something to fill the void of my EK43 sadly abandoned back home. Your first unboxing/initial-thoughts video was one of the main reasons I waited for the Philos, and I’m glad I did. Results in the cup are excellent, and the build quality bodes well for the longevity of this little grinder. I wish the hopper were more sturdy though! Thanks for your work, Spro ❤

[@Nvik1]

Had the grinder for 3 weeks now and I love it. Coming from a Eureka Mignon Perfetto this is an upgrade worth the investment, in my opinion. The grinder provides the repetitiveness I was looking for. And also the ability to grind for specialty coffee. The adjustment wheel in the back is easy to handle and there is nothing negative about it. It is now easy to switch between grinding sizes and producing the same result over and over again. Eureka grinder for sale 😂

[@Sprometheus]

Glad to hear you’ve been enjoying the upgrade! Cheers to better coffee!

[@MBergyman]

Do you find it easy to switch back and forth between filter and espresso easily without having to faff about with dialing in every time?

[@Nvik1]

@@MBergyman I only have experience with two grinders and the big difference between the two is that I can trust the dial button to deliver the same result every time on the Philos. This makes dialing in easier as well. The Eureka had a small dial nob that presented to much movement and thus you could never exactly hit the same spot. Once I have found the setting for espresso or pour over I just need to remember the dial nob setting for each and then there is no issue switching back and forth. I also experience that the coffee taste better, but that is not to say that everyone would experience the same as taste is personal preference. I am very happy with this grinder even though I had to pay about 1200$ for it.

[@MBergyman]

@@Nvik1 Thanks for the reply! I've been on a second-hand super J for the last 15 years or so, I'll probably get the I189 burrs to try out in it before making the big purchase (have to wait until bonus time anyway haha), but good to know the Philos dial is solid and trustworthy. I have always wanted a truly nice, "smaller" Mazzer, and your comments seal the deal for me.

[@Nvik1]

@@MBergymanI can only hope you will be as happy as I am with this grinder. 😊

[@mrdobalina3451]

Mine (black with both burrs) arrived a few days ago 💪 My base is the same as yours but it’s stable. Issues I’m concerned about include: - if you take the face plate off every time to clean I think it will become loose and start falling off. I may leave the shot finisher tool outside the machine so I don’t need to take the faceplate off as much - scratching of the baseplate under the dosing cup. I think I’ll put clear contact over the plate or something on the bottom of the dosing cup - I wish the knocker was metal and not plastic

[@jallaire28]

Is the faceplate not magnetic?

[@mrdobalina3451]

@ it is and quite strong. I don’t take mine off a lot but will probably never be an issue.

[@brendansmith]

Phenomenal grinder for high-end home and single-dosing SEO for cafes. Really excited for this one and I think I will pick one up myself.

[@jslanfranchi]

Very nice video! Been rocking the Philos for a month now, and really liking it so far. Like mentioned in your video, I really enjoy the fuss free simplicity and tank like build quality. And the cup results I have been getting with it (paired with a Decent) are amazing. Although it’s clearly clarity focused (i200 burr set), I do feel the burr set is also not lacking as some other burrs on the body department (and are also easier to dial). Another thing I have noticed is that extractions can be pushed about 1 to 2% further from my other grinders (Eureka Oro SD, Pietro, C40, Timemore) without cup loosing its balance and bitter astringency taking over. Overall, I find it to be amazing value. Only nit pick on my end would be static. May add an aftermarket ioniser at some point but definitely not a deal breaker. Interested to hear your comments and experience about burr swapping (notably with regards to alignment).

[@rosiakm]

Hi, thanks for the informative review👍. May I ask how would you rate it against your lagom p64 in terms of both burr change difficulty and quality in the cup?

[@davidhunternyc1]

It would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison video of the Mazzer Philos vs. the Zerno Z1.

[@Sprometheus]

Ask and you shall receive, my Zerno is supposed to land between September and November.

[@davidhunternyc1]

@@Sprometheus You're awesome. Can't wait. 🙏🏼

[@orbit354]

The zerno is definitely way better looking imo and also has a much smaller footprint

[@michaelbubly]

@@orbit354It’s also impossible to get and more expensive. Lead time is basically giving them an interest free loan for 8-12 months which is a major roadblock.

[@RomainLussier]

I'm at a crossroad right now between these two as I just entered the buying slots for the zerno so really looking forward to the review/comparison 🤓

[@morenovids]

Just got mine in the mail today. (First batch of US sales) First shot I pulled was right on the nose. Huge jump in flavor from the Mazzer Mini I had before. Thanks for the great review vids and helping me decide!

[@pdxrunner]

This grinder is a definite upgrade step from my DF64E. The quality, consistency and prebreakers with a reasonable price makes it a worthwhile choice. I love no bellows and the antistatic is an over rated feature. I have a cheap plug in ionizer. The blind burrs would be expensive and limit currently available burr options.

[@Sprometheus]

Absolutely a step up from any of the DF models I’ve used thus far, including the 83V which I don’t love looks wise. I also don’t like bellows, and I agree that blind burrs are so new and would require them to literally design and make their own which would only add to lead time and cost in the long run

[@azamudinishak]

which burr did you get it?

[@pdxrunner]

​@Sprometheus Thank you for the in-depth video with your review.From your video and Justin(DGC), I decided on purchasing the Philos. The quality of manufacturing and the grinds made my decision. I had to make too many adjustments, add-ons and inconsistent grinds with the DF.

[@kylemessineo8542]

@@Sprometheuswould you choose this Mazzer grinder over the DF83V ?

[@yanapoppy]

love to hear people s thoughts​@kylemessineo8542

[@stevengarman9112]

Auger/pre breaker is way more important (imo) than variable rpm. Price is super reasonable for the features it is providing. It’s a win for the home baristas for sure.

[@Sprometheus]

I think this is true as long as it works as intended, and from the performance perspective I’d say it does but it’s hard to prove with the exit being slightly blocked.

[@trevorwolf2107]

THEMperors?!?! ❤❤❤ Thank you Spro, I'm using that one!!!😂

[@cameronbatko]

This definitely seems like a good grinder to upgrade from the DF64 possibly, It has a nice work flow and some smart design choices. I don’t need variable rpm but being able to grind for all brew types in 1 grinder with a nice large dial is nice. The looks are interesting but I am also someone with a niche zero. As long as it does its job well, I don’t mind the design. I do appreciate the nice materials though. $1k is a great price point for this grinder.

[@Ivanho1976]

Hi great video👌I’m in the market for an electric grinder, I have a k ultra at min and drink espresso only, looking at the 078s and philos but no clue which to go for🤔???? Cheers☕️☕️

[@Sprometheus]

@@Ivanho1976 honestly I think both the 078s and the Philos are solid choices. The big bonus in my opinion is the Philos has 64mm burrs which is a common size and allow you to try new burrs easily and essentially transform your grinder relatively inexpensively. Just my two cents.

[@Ivanho1976]

@ thank you 👌

[@mtpastor4546]

I was making a decision between Mazzer Philos and Zenro Z1. To me Mazzer is a synonyms of reliability, like La Marzocco. However, after viewing some reviews from KZbin, I go for Z1 for: 1. Smaller footprint 2. Well engineering 3. Various burr sets choice

[@Sprometheus]

Yeah, they can be in a similar position, price point as standard isn’t too much more for the Z1. I did also buy one, should be landing in Sep/Nov. I’ll give you the smaller footprint, and more burr choices, but on the engineering front I’d say it hard to rely on a few YT videos to determine it’s superior on that front.

[@mtpastor4546]

@@Sprometheus I am looking forward to your compassion between Philos and Z1

[@Highflo]

Awesome review and loving the new renovation!

[@Sprometheus]

Thanks! It was a lot of work. You can’t see it but I painting the entire room matte black. Installed most of the slat panels. But I’m still trying to dial in the layout, sound, and lighting. A work in progress for sure.

[@jayberringer4670]

After some back and forth wrt a Niche Zero replacement I went with the Philos. It hits what I want (burr choice, better granularity) while being half the price of the WW Key and without a wait time like the Z1. Yes it has 64mm flat burrs versus 83mm conical (WW Key) but it also has the simplicity of the Niche without the nits of the Key. After having a testy experience with WW customer service there wasn't any chance I'd go with a Key. The Philos has a high bar to clear to replace the Niche for me so we'll see how that goes. Having the flexibility of the 189D and 200D burrs (or alternatives) swings in the Philos' favor for me though. I usually don't pull the trigger this quickly so here's hoping it goes well.

[@jayberringer4670]

It's here and I've been using it. I can echo @sprometheus comment that its grinds produce a clean espresso shot with good clarity using the 200D burrs when compared to my Niche Zero. I haven't tried the 189D burrs yet but will wait a bit to gain some more experience with the 200Ds. The grinder itself is indeed built like a tank. As a single shot grinder the retention seems to be a bit better than the Niche marginally. That said, neither grinder retains a lot. The Cuban highland washed that I've been brewing is a bit "stickier" than the Colombian Gesha in both grinders. Stickier being about .3 to .5g. Overall, I'm really pleased with the Philos out of the box and am thinking that it is my end game grinder. It has reasonable features (don't care about variable RPM or an ionizer), it solidly built, allows swapping burrs and is priced reasonably. It could be a Niche Duo killer, which prices out to be within €100 if getting both burr sets. 😂

[@makanmata]

I have used a Mazzer Mini for over 20 years and it still works as well today as the day I've bought it, with the only needed maintenance cleaning and/or changing the burrs every once in a very long while. I've tried moving to a more modern single dose grinder, but everything I've looked at that isn't ~US$3K seems like a toy in comparison to my Mazzer, and I really have not liked the customer unfriendly sales practices -- high prices, payment long in advance of delivery, poor response to complaints, etc. -- of these companies who have behaved like they were the only game in town (because they sort of were). It looks like my replacement has finally arrived and I'm pleased that these manufacturers will have some competition. A question: are there forks available so that I can I grind directly into my portafilter? Or must I use this cup?

[@MBergyman]

I’ve been looking into Minis for a long time. I didn’t know the Philo was a thing until tonight. On my shortlist.

[@bacca71]

Thanks for a very nicely-done review. Like the new studio look. A lot of work with very worthwhile results! I have to ask: In your nice graphic at the 9 1/2 minute mark, what constitutes the value "ratio?" Putting the grind adjustment at the rear, away from all the messy bits, makes great engineering sense for this design style. I read somewhere that adjusting the grind setting with the motor running is a lot easier than adjusting with the motor off.

[@burgosmatthew]

Did you have to spend any time aligning the burs or was it good to go out of the box?

[@dumkopf]

Yo spro. Good vid. Wondering if you attempted or can attempt to rit the i200d burrs to your P64.

[@orbit354]

Is ist a massive upgrade in comparison to the timemore 78s after grinding it in? I‘m torn between those 2 😬

[@BobStCyr]

My biggest question is, in the north american market we get a noticeable difference in rpm from the european version due to the difference in electrical systems. How does this affect performance? Can this be adjusted for at the factory?

[@kerrycoyle8930]

From what I've seen and heard... I'm extremely interested in the new Mazzer Philos

[@_Brewn]

Got Mine since 5weeks and ITS amazing! (I200D)

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

The best i have had!

[@Sprometheus]

A solid grinder for sure. Worth having on your short list for 64mm single dosers

[@nywoodfloor]

⁠@@_Brewn how do you find the 120 burrs? Are they covering well the entire roast spectrum?

[@Martin-i8o8n]

Nice video, sharing some background and first impressions

[@majs2009]

Thank you for the review. When are we getting the Lagom 01 review? I have been waiting for that for months... I do not see it on your coffee bar anymore :(

[@kylemessineo8542]

Can anyone help me out here I’m trying to pick between the Mazzer Philos or DF83V, the new Turin 83V looks amazing as does this one 🤦‍♂️

[@cabarnes1978]

I'm mostly set on this one. I'm replacing a hand grinder that I dropped and dented. The catch cup no longer screws on properly. It was mostly a temporary solution to hold me until I was ready for the expensive outlay. So i'm looking to take a big step up on grinders since this will be used for a long time. I've also considered the DF83V, but like the looks of the Mazzer much better. My only concern, and this may be a FOMO thing, is 64mm vs. 83mm burrs. Is there a significant quality upgrade to go with 83mm? Though it appears the 64mm are much less expensive, making it more feasible to own a few different sets for experimentation with different flavor profiles. Or is it more about the grinder using the burrs and the burr quality? I'm using a Rocket Apartmento, and mostly lighter/medium roast beans since that's what's available from smaller roasters here in Portugal. So I'm thinking the 200 burrs would be the best, if I go with the Mazzer. Any thoughts on my questions would be appreciated. Also, "Themperors" is gold! Will be using that regularly.

[@Sprometheus]

@@cabarnes1978 great question, and I think this can be something that’s debatable, but having had the DF83V, and Niche Duo, another 83mm grinder, and even using something like the Lagom 01, a 102mm burr grinder I still find myself gravitating toward 64mm as they blend a fast enough speed for home grinding, less stress on their motors, and as you said less expensive burrs to have on hand for a swap which in a matter of minutes makes it a different grinder. So long story short, I don’t subscribe to the belief that bigger burrs are better, and don’t see myself moving away from 64mm grinders anytime soon.

[@nabiuro]

@@Sprometheus When making 1-3 cups of coffee at a time, heating the 83 mm diameter burrs does not affect their heating and toasting if we replace them (or sharpen them) every 15-20 thousand cups of coffee. The minimal difference in favor of larger diameter burrs results from the fact that we are approaching the best industrial cylindrical burrs, where there is a better possibility of setting a narrow spread of grind granulation, but in my opinion, to feel this, the burrs would have to be flat, 300 mm in diameter or more, so that the number of blades on the way of the beans would have time to cut and not crush the ground coffee (because the process is a bit mixed). You probably don't feel the difference because your grinder with 83 mm burrs has enough RPM reserve to simulate large diameter burrs with a large number of blades, but see the very beginning of the text: you grind few coffees at once, the coffee beans don't burn and there is no sediment on the burrs that sticks sediment from the next beans, then the excess breaks off and we drink something like this collected over the week in a cup of coffee

[@Kiaulen]

Thank you, Spro!

[@buffamous]

Is this a significant upgrade over the DF64 gen2 in terms of taste? Or would the DF83v be a better purchase?

[@philindeblanc]

Looked at this as a potential, and got the DF83V. ....SOLID! Main reasons, not in order: 1. Burr upgrade I wanted to be more drastic. 83 vs 64, coming from a 54 burr, this was a huge upgrade 2. Sound. The amount of noise the DF83V makes is so satisfying, and negligible, even with babies in the same room. The noise is like soothing low tone, vs a blasting Eureka. 3. Variable speed, because with today's coffees, you need such variables, and the option to change burrs give that a fine tune control. 4. Easy to clean, almost no retention. I do NOT use RDT any more. After some shots, the static is lower without RDT. I do not use the bellows either. Tap the top and its done. If you want 100% just lean over and give it a puff . 5. Cost 6. Its more meat grinder looking while the other is a Choo Choo train. Take your pick. I think the ugliest is the Niche cartoon character grinder. Then I think worst is a Mac monitor stand Zerno. 7. The underdog is always someone I like to see do equal or beat out a pro in the market. 8. Dose cup size 9. Opening up the grinder for Philos is more involved.

[@duriorYT]

Will the burrs - especially the I200D - fit something like the Zerno? A measurement of the burrs would be a nice to have to know whether they're proprietary or not :-)

[@mimir1982]

Any idea when it will be available for purchase in the US?

[@kevtron0]

Great review as always sprometheus! Do you happen to know when they plan to release in the US? And could I get similar performance witha 83V with SSP burrs?

[@Sprometheus]

Thanks you! And on the release date, I think last I heard late summer, early fall. And I think you could get similar performance with the 83V but there are more possible failure points, and the burrs are so much more expensive. I personally love the 64 size purely for the huge array of options and not crazy expensive.

[@kevtron0]

@@Sprometheus Thank you, appreciate the response!

[@sobe303]

I have a DF64 with SSP HU. I want to upgrade. Should I order the it with the 200 burrs? Do you find the 189 to be very similar to the SSP HU?

[@Dexterprog]

what has your expression been with this one and SSP MP installed? Deciding if it makes sense to move from a DF64v (with these on) to this grinder or if it's not making much sense

[@BobStCyr]

This looks like a great grinder, I think I've narrowed my field to the Timemore 78s, DF83V, Zerno Z1 and this grinder - I'm espresso only. The mazzer has small burrs compared to the timemore and the df83, does not have adjustable speed, but does have the build quality and history behind it. I currently run a Ceado e37s (83 mm burrs 500 watts, it runs great but the results are too inconsistent.

[@flyinghigh370]

Hi! I’m looking at the Ceado e37SD vs the Philos if DF83V. I would have thought for almost $2000 the Ceado would be very consistent? No? Thanks!

[@Evan_Rodgers]

Do you think this is maybe the best value grinder on the market if you can snag the presale at $1000?

[@desmondlewissmith]

Would love to know how this grinder stands up to the Turin DF83 V3? I realize the Mazzer is probably built better, but no RPM control and the fact that I love 83mm burrs makes it harder for me to think about upgrading. Great review by the way.

[@nabiuro]

I have Mazzer Mini Electronic A in which I am slowly giving up all additional functions such as timer, chopper waiting to be converted into bellows in favor of zero retention and I don't really feel the pressure to regulate the speed but for $80 you can buy an inverter changing the speed and not like in other branded grinders, paying an additional $1000 for a built-in inverter in wooden boards (robbery in broad daylight $300-400 is still going through the throat even in exotic wood boards) What is important in a grinder is what quality class of bearings the manufacturer has put there and what speeds the grinder will withstand without overheating the electric windings of the motor. And very important is the rigidity of the motor housing and consequently reduction of vibrations also of the burrs and consequently less fine dust in the grind and I would be most interested in the latter instead of changing the speed...

[@changomeister]

will you be doing a option-o lagom 01 review?

[@Sprometheus]

Absolutely. It’s on the docket for sure

[@changomeister]

@@Sprometheus looking forward to it 🫡

[@MGM_Think]

I have a quesion: These two burr sets that come with the Philos, do they work on Mazzer's other grinders like the Super Jolly?

[@shahidyt]

I’m looking to upgrade from a Macap M4D grinder to pair with my Bezzera Strega espresso machine. The M4D has always had clumping issues since new, back in 2012. I’m just wondering if I should go with the Niche Zero or pay the extra for the Mazzer.

[@trendandvalue]

I've had a Niche Zero for a couple years, but now trying to convince myself I need to upgrade to a Philos or something comparable. if all you grind for is espresso, you might be perfectly satisfied with the Niche. if you get a Niche you'd be well served by getting a set of slow-feeding disks, or devising your solution.

[@shahidyt]

Thanks for the advice. It might sound a bit snobby, I’m not keen on the looks of the niche, it will look out of place next to a Bezzera Strega. I want an end game grinder, one to buy and then use for the rest of my life, so want to make sure parts are available, if anything breaks. The Macao that I have, I struggled to find a set of replacement burrs, 12 years after purchase. Lastly and most important, the taste, I’d like to know which would produce tastier espresso for my preferences. I’d like big bold flavour in the cup

[@trendandvalue]

@ last night I ended up pulling the trigger on the Philos with the 200 burr set. I can't imagine ever needing to upgrade again 🤞. if I end up getting bored with it I can always start collecting different 64mm burr sets at $100 to $200 a pop, a much cheaper proposition than falling for latest/greatest machine fomo. that's my plan anyway. big hassle now is trying to unload the Niche at a decent price.

[@shahidyt]

@@trendandvalue Congrats, that is awesome. Hope you like it, I’m sure you will. I hate selling too, I have loads of hifi gear that is cluttering up the house. Which country are you in? If UK, I wouldn’t mind renting one, to see if I’d be content with one

[@trendandvalue]

@@shahidyt I'm in the US. probably not worth the international shipping costs. I have the same problem with golf clubs. every time I get new club I promise my wife I'll sell something, but never seem to get around to it. can't wait for her to find out I ordered this massive expensive grinder /s good luck on your grinder journey.

[@timothywargo3530]

Did you have any issues with the Beans stopping the grind. I have A brew pro that locks up all the time. Looking to upgrade.

[@Sprometheus]

@@timothywargo3530 nope, no stalls or stutters. The torque this grinder puts out from the start is very high, and if you hot start your grind, I don’t think it would be possible jam outside of putting rocks through it.

[@davidjschmeling646]

This 64 mm Mazzer Philos vs Zerno? Which would you choose?

[@bitorem]

Should I buy one of the demo Philos grinders that were used at the Roasters Village at the Chicago SCA Show in April or should I wait for the October production? I don’t know if the new ones might include some corrections.

[@GraysonCarr]

How do you know the production schedule? So at this point, I assume it’s not coming back in stock until October / November for the US?

[@bitorem]

@@GraysonCarr I’ve been in contact with Mazzer directly and they referred me to a third party vendor selling their few demos since they knew I didn’t want to wait. So I ended up buying a demo.

[@EDC_All_Day]

When will this be available in the US? I tried to buy their pre-order, but when I got to checkout, it wouldn't go through because of the country.

[@JonFairhurst]

I plan to order one as soon as it is available in the US. I like the simplicity and don’t care about variable RPM or ionizers. Sure, it could be more svelte or have bigger burrs, but it’s super solid at a reasonable price, so it has a nice balance. The auger/prebreaker is an important feature for me. The unique win is the rear adjustment, which enables fast cleaning without affecting alignment. So… when do we expect US availability?

[@Sprometheus]

I think last I heard was late summer early fall, we’ll see! You may be able to blame me for a bit if the delay since I was the first to have that uneven feet issue that they resolved.

[@JonFairhurst]

I’m hoping for a US launch within the next couple of weeks. August was unlikely, due to Italian vacation season. Next week includes Labor Day in the US, so it will be a short week. The week of September 9 could be the one. My credit card is ready…

[@loganmontgomery1955]

Hey Sprom! Do you have any recommendations for Seattle area? My parents are traveling that way this week and I want to give them a few recommendations

[@Sprometheus]

Oh yeah, I love the Seattle coffee scene such a wide array of options. Personally, Anchorhead is one of my more modern favs, Push X Pull, Elm, Olympia, and many many more. But for that classic old school espresso, and a place that is credited for the popularity of latte art Espresso Vivace is a must.

[@loganmontgomery1955]

@@Sprometheus Thanks man! Love what you do

[@AgathosKaiAlethia]

How do you compare these i200D burrs to the SSP MPV2 that you love so much? I’ve read what folks on HB say but would like to hear your opinion.

[@Persason]

From my understanding Mazzer made this out of mostly non-static materials. This reduces overall static and therefore there seems to be no need for an ionizer. What is your conlcusion from testing? If I am to spend 1k euros on a grinder it needs to remove RDT from my workflow.

[@Sprometheus]

Yeah this is true. There isn’t no static, but I’d say it’s relatively low. But you will need to use the knocker and you’ll likely be surprised by the amount of grinds the “shot finisher” can pull out after a bag of coffee goes through. Regardless, .1 grams without RDT and it evens out with the knocker so you can kick the bottle habit if you want.

[@granttheisen1140]

When are these going to be available in the US?

[@s96822]

I have owned Mazzer in past. super solid, reliable and built like a tank. non variable rpm is in line with Italian traditional grinders and not with 3rd wave fine tuning. a variable rpm would be nice especially with 400 watts behind it. rpm 1400-1600 standard. likely that initial vibration due to changes during shipping as mazzer certainly setup and fine tuned the review sample pre post.

[@texasbryan]

I’m debating between this grinder and the Lagom P64. What say you?

[@Sprometheus]

Oooph, that’s a tough one. I do love my P64, and it’ll likely remain my main grinder. But it is about twice the price and not really twice the grinder IMO. I do love the idea of having RPM control when I want it, but I don’t use it all that much. So I think the question to ask yourself is if you want to pay extra for that option and which fits your space better.

[@texasbryan]

@@Sprometheus thank you for the quick response. Even at twice the price, I like the smaller footprint, seemingly less static, and easier access to the grind adjustment. Plus I think it comes apart a little easier for cleaning?

[@Martin-i8o8n]

@@texasbryan Unsure on that one. With P64, RDT is mandatory?

[@GraysonCarr]

Many people say RDT is necessary for P64, but not with Philos. Main advantages of P64 seem to be portafilter forks, smaller footprint, and variable speed (although many say that’s not very useful).

[@Martin-i8o8n]

@@GraysonCarr I hate RDT but also the footprint of Mazzer Philos. So I went with Niche Duo and escaped both

[@karasong7701]

The Philos looks like it should be my endgame grinder for when I become rich. Which of the burrs do you like better though? I'm leaning more towards the I189D.

[@chris9923]

I went with the 189d burrs, and have no regrets. Shots have decent texture, and are sweet, not too blended for my taste, and straightforward to dial in. Using for both espresso and milk drinks. 👍

[@karasong7701]

@@chris9923 Thanks for your input. I personally don't like messing that much with the burrs on my grinder, so I choose carefully lol. How's the flavor clarity on the I189D?

[@chris9923]

@@karasong7701 Middling flavour separation I'd say... not muddy and not high clarity... I'm really enjoying them 👍

[@TRDFanatic]

When?!?!?!? When will this be available for order????? Better yet….how did you get one? At this point even a pre-order. I’m seeing them reviewed all over the world, but not for sale here in the US?

[@Sprometheus]

@@TRDFanatic last I heard was orders open in mid-October, but they do have an email list you can sign up for when it goes live. I got mine as a review unit.

[@rmainr9495]

first batch is scheduled for late october

[@jimtrout7573]

mine is arriving today

[@CPSC_23]

Seems very interesting at a not-so-insane price

[@Sprometheus]

Definitely, I think that’s the angle they went for and more or less nailed it.

[@nikosdeb]

Wondering if i200d is compatible with other 64mm grinders

[@barnabaas79]

Where does this grinder compare (if at all) to a Timemore Sculptor 078S in your opinion?

[@JesusLovesCoffee]

I thought it was a commercial grinder at first!

[@Sprometheus]

It’s definitely not just a home piece, light commercial is definitely possible.

[@jazzmaster89]

Would you say that the philos (I200D burr) gets anywhere close to the clarity of a 98mm burr for filter?

[@scoobtoober2975]

If it was only variable, it might be a multi brew master. Filter, it looks like a great one.

[@purpleblue5205]

Philos vs P64 vs Zerno Are there any big cup differences between these three high end 64mm grinders?

[@AbelandVictoria]

Nice video. I’ll keep my ek43 still king

[@reactionsok]

is the zerno $600 better?

[@gggeeeooorrrggg]

Thank you for the video. The dosing cup is grounded and that is an anti-static measure. The grinder does not need any extra ion generators or similar.

[@nabiuro]

You have no idea about combating antistatic, especially in loose materials that are an insulator; I don't even want to elaborate on the answer.

[@AnotherAnonymousMan]

Great review as always. I just got myself a DF83V because the wait/ availability on this one. I don't feel like I've missed out though. Its a crazy time for the home grinder market right now!

[@jags3661]

I had the df83 before and philos is so much better. Better alignment, quality and consistency

[@AnotherAnonymousMan]

@@jags3661 I said 83v...

[@Hundredthldiot]

The size and reacharound ergonomics wouldn't work for me, but I'm glad it exists.

[@Sprometheus]

Yeah it’s a bit of a tank for sure, and I definitely can see quite a few scenarios where that adjustment dial can’t work. But as you said, it is a great addition to the market.

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

Reacharound is not required if you have space on your worktop to rotate the grinder 90 degrees. Works perfectly. For the price point this grinder has extreme performance and build quality.

[@GuidoHendriks1990]

It’s not quite big but for me, coming from a niche zero, it barely takes up more effective space on the counter. As the space behind the Niche wasn’t used anyway.

[@Hundredthldiot]

@@adrianmichaelsmith yeah, but if had 35cm of counter width for a grinder I'd probably get two narrow ones with different burr sets, or use the space to lay out the rest of my gear better, but if it works for you that's great. It just seems like a weird choice that is going to cost more sales than it gains. My biggest gripe with my current grinder is static which necessitates RDT, and I hate RDT, so it's a shame (for my personal preferences) that Mazzer didn't put in an ioniser. Static wasn't covered much in this review. I would pay $$$ for a grinder that banished static-related mess.

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

​@@Hundredthldiot i use the space in front of the grinder for prep, tamp etc. The review is lacking in research in that respect I did post a link to a video where Luigi explains the decisions regarding static. Unfortunately it was deleted!! Spro didn't like it obvs.

[@jacksonwhitcup1185]

I hope they release it in white like some of their other grinders.

[@dabougi8063]

Variable rpm is not only a thing that no one really understands in general (because it can work out in many ways, depending on the bean) But more electronics could also mean more liabilities. I would always go for fixed rpm. FWIW, do I really need ANOTHER variable? Grindsize, Burr choice, Beans (and their age), Temperature, Pressure (and profiling of these), Preinfusion, Ratio and so on... I just think the philos is a tad big- and I am not completely sure if this is necessary. But I like the looks in general- But next to a strietman it might be too mighty

[@philindeblanc]

its great for a small shop ,but way big for a kitchen counter. bigger than 83mm burr grnder. A dc motor would have helped the size. i think it barely makes the home market, by brand and by so much confusion on what to get.

[@rmbeavers]

Please help. Zerno Z1 now a bit pricier than p64. Once I add the burrs, chute cover, etc. it's coming in at over 2k. This Philos is 1k and the p64 is ~1700ish. Which one?

[@GraysonCarr]

Good question. I’m currently leaning towards the…

[@azamudinishak]

arent anyone wondering when dialing in which burr move its position? since the motor is on the dialing side?

[@thomasheidstra1268]

For a demanding coffee drinker that is not interested in the marginal gains of a Weber Workshops, this looks like a very interesting option to me…

[@UltiMogr]

Were did you find the definition of friendship and love? philos means friend in Greek

[@michaelbernetediaz]

This grinder caught my eye mainly because of the design and the pricepoint. I like the way it looks quite a bit and personally find the DF and Niche grinders (as well as every other grinder around that price point) just to look quite ugly and cheap. To be fair even in the high-end grinder world I think with the exception of the Weber EG1 and Key grinder everything just looks so ugly. It's a highty subjective reasoning but to be fair, if I'm spending anywhere between 1 an 4 grand on something that would be on my countertop 24/7 it might as well not look hideous

[@JPC326]

How it does compare to Zerno ?

[@mericlis]

that decent is so beautiful

[@Sprometheus]

Thank you! I appreciate that!

[@vedute]

The Philos is the long awaited Niche killer.

[@SetaRossa83]

Definitely agree. This is the killer.

[@Martin-i8o8n]

Why and where should it kill the Niche? Certainly not for workflow - can't be easier

[@markbrooks6979]

My biggest issue would be the lack of anti-static, but that isn't necessarily a deal breaker. IMHO, it looks good--definitely better than the DF grinders.

[@_Brewn]

Im using the Philos since 5weeks and i dont Need rdt, everything went in the Cup. One knock and its done

[@markbrooks6979]

@@_Brewn Good to know!

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

It has anti static, by careful control of materials and earthing the grind cup. I have no issues with static on the philos

[@Sprometheus]

Yep, as I mentioned the knocker evens things out. RDT at this point is more for its other advantages vs static removal.

[@dumkopf]

Anti-static is a spritz bottle away.

[@tomas_m]

It's so massive I was sure it must have 98mm burrs

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

I find it much "better" to use rotated 90 degrees so the on off button is in front of me. Grind adjust at right and cup, beans at left. So use it properly and you will have less "issues!"

[@Sprometheus]

So first you say it’s “better” to use it sideways, then say it’s the proper way to use it. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way, but I don’t think the issues I discussed will be fixed but purely just the orientation of the grinder body. This also means you still have lean over the grinder if you’re shorter to see where it’s set since the adjustment setting is on the top of the body.

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

​@@Sprometheus i can only describe myself as short (with regards to actual height at least!) i have no issue knowing what setting I'm at with the grinder "sideways on" at the back of my work top. I can see "lengthways" as a good option if space is at a premium. Sideways on seems more of a natural workflow.

[@ЛентяйЁпта]

You are wrong about anti-static. Ever wondered why the little plate the dosing cup stands on is made of metal? I get almost no fines stuck in the cup

[@Sprometheus]

Not wrong. Just a difference of opinion. Building a grinder with static resistant materials isn’t anti-static, especially in a market filled with plasma/ion generators becoming a bit of a norm.

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

​@@Sprometheusso are mazzer wrong when they say grounding the cup on top of their other measures has addressed the problem. also, ion generator on some grinders gives a lot more static than the philos has without it.

[@jags3661]

​@adrianmichaelsmith the cup has also been tested to show that it is grounded. If you try use a plastic cup it will show how effective the static mechanism is. Not sure what SP is on about

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

​@@jags3661yes . With my fluke i have 1 ohm between the cup and the metal wall socket front . Works as it is designed! Lack of understanding and research for this "review".

[@MitcheyBabes]

Does anyone know where he might have got the t-shirt? Can’t seem to find it online.

[@cheekster777]

Thank you my friend.

[@Sprometheus]

Of course! Nice to hear from you Cheekster!

[@cheekster777]

@@Sprometheus 🤝

[@philindeblanc]

you need a more precise scale. other tests show only 20% pre breaking

[@luisrenta7961]

I LIKE THAT T SHIRT,!!! WHERE CAN I GET ONE.

[@wheelerlight8541]

"short statured kings, queens, and themporers." Ah yes, a perfectly extracted phrase.

[@Sprometheus]

I not only extract coffee, but also equity

[@Dexterprog]

I have huge concerns about those butterfly screw things

[@_Brewn]

Why? You cannot overtighten Them and they are stainless !

[@loganmontgomery1955]

They’re long enough that nothing will shake loose. Unless you’re planning on grinding rocks I don’t think anything will loosen them

[@Dexterprog]

@@loganmontgomery1955 more concerned about misalignment due to the not being tightened exactly the same amount

[@Sprometheus]

I asked about this way back in February with the Prototype and completely forgot to share the response direct from Luigi… “I have asked our team about tightening torque for butterfly screws and parallelism in the body of the grinder. Essentially, both mating surfaces of the 2 parts of Philos body are CNC machined, then they are controlled separately and in relation to the respective burrs. The centering of the assembly is granted by the metal plugs on the back assembly. The fixation is explicitly designed to be done by hand and a change in the torque applied by hands on such flat and parallel coupled surfaces is not making any significant difference on the final parallelism of the 2 burrs.”

[@Dexterprog]

@@Sprometheus ahhh so it WAS your video I remembered this comment from. Well, glad you covered this :). The grinder looks great to be honest, and a good option for those of us that can get the Zerno (Europe, etc) without importing it. Thanks, man Now I need to contemplate if this is worth moving from the df64v with SSP. the weight puts me off a bit, and it's bulkiness

[@MaakBow]

OMG..why would visual appeal be the most divisive thing about a grinder and therefore the most important feature to discuss? . I think the bottom half of this device is butt ugly but if for a minute I thought this device would improve my espresso I'd be in with both feet.

[@PaoloItaliano-k9v]

It’s a nice grinder for reasonably price, but due to lack of RPM settings I would choose Weber EG-1

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

Ok Douglas! Philo is working great. Does not require variable rpm. Also, landed in the uk i can purchase 4 philos with some change for 1 eg1.

[@PaoloItaliano-k9v]

For me price doesn’t matter. Quality first

[@Martin-i8o8n]

@@PaoloItaliano-k9v RPM is not quality. It's just another variable

[@GraysonCarr]

@@PaoloItaliano-k9vTo be honest, the EG-1 is pretty lacking in features compared to my Sanremo X-One, but it’s ok if you’re on a budget.

[@knifexgunfight]

I really want to watch this, and might background it, but GD a REAR CONTROL WHEEL...I'M OUT

[@iordachelucian1953]

It would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison video of the Mazzer Philos vs. the Eureka Atom

[@owenrogers9528]

As an Atom 60 and 75 owner, I would guess the Philos takes up more counterspace, takes longer to grind, is louder, but has better workflow and near zero retention. The Atom is not designed for single dosing and the grinds produced when one attempts it are less consistent and produce a different cup than a hopper full of beans.