MBAACC F-Powerd Ciel Part 1: Midscreen Combos

[@pennymadeline7347]

the Bjork song choice tho :O never seen a more atmospheric combo vid lol

[@XxTexasTimxX]

Yeah, it fit pretty well.

[@DingoYabuki]

Badass

[@XxTexasTimxX]

Indeed 👍

[@shakugan6066]

I got a question about this part of the combo at 2:53 how do you get 5B to land after j.B for me it whiffs even if I do everything correctly up to that point in delaying 3C and landing rock but just can't connect with 5B after the j.B

[@XxTexasTimxX]

It is likely that you are doing j.B too early. Against Arc, this combo is particularly hard, but it is hard in general. PCL does need to not be rising still when the j.B hits to have the time to land 5B. Getting the timing depends on the string of normals right before it, and there are some char specific green boxes that complicate this route more. You 2C, delay 3C some, but not a lot, because you want the rock to hit them as late as possible, so that you can jump up and delay j.B enough to get land 5B to connect. But you dont want to delay the 3C too little so the rock wiffs (as the opponent is lower with more delay between 2C and 3C), and not so late that you cant get j.B at the proper height because the rock hits too early. In other words, you need 2C delay 3C enough that the rock still hits, but not so much that it hits too early. You kinda want them to fall into the rock right before the tech window. I would really recommend a different route here. I was using this route in the past, but have since found more stable midscreen routes for j.B loops. Namely the j.B land 6B 2C routes. They are in my F-PCL Combo Optimization video. The j.B land 6B 2C ends up being a lot more stable on the whole cast because of the reduction of hit count, and therefore lower hitstun deterioration, making the B-Rock j.B link much easier. Hopefully this info makes sense and helps you out. Let me know if you have more questions.

[@shakugan6066]

@@XxTexasTimxX thank you so much for the help on this, I was actually experimenting with the timing of the delay 3C and noticed pretty much all the examples you gave of what happens afterward with the rock and figured that maybe it was just a really tight window to land the j.B and still have time to land the 5B after but wasn't too sure, spent way too many hours on this so thank you again! I'll definitely look at the other routes

[@shakugan6066]

@@XxTexasTimxX So I was able to perform the j.B loops more consistently thanks to your help! but I'm kind of stuck on landing the 2a pick up after j.236a~a as often. I do understand that I have to get AT low to the ground and then do delay j.236 a delay a. But specifically, how much delay do you want for the j.236 because I have tried to delay as much as I can but then once I do get the knockdown I still didn't recover fast enough. Or is it just a little bit of delay that needs to be applied? I have tried testing that but not even sure what specific part determines if pciel lands fast enough or just be a frame too slow to recover in time. I typically get it to work when I space out for a few seconds then once I realized I did it I don't delay 3B at the end and drop the combo in sadness 😅

[@XxTexasTimxX]

@@shakugan6066 Its a hard link, for sure. For the j.236A~A you do need more delay before the j.236A and then less for the A follow up, but the windows for acceptable delay are not so strict. The delay is mostly so that PCL starts to fall a bit, putting her lower relative to the opponent, but not so low that you dont get 4 hits on the A follow up. Try to get the timing to where you see PCL start to fall, then the j.236A comes out. For the A follow up timing, any timing that gets you the 4 hits will work. I time the 2A link by sound. When I hear the opponent's 1st bounce, I press the 2A.

[@shakugan6066]

@@XxTexasTimxX oh okay I got it down now it was the little fall that I wasn't seeing, appreciate the help again man!

[@ViolentSh4de]

Bjork was a good touch, also impressive combos since ive never played this game

[@XxTexasTimxX]

Thanks. :) Yeah, some of these are a bit flashy or not so match practical. I do need to make an updated vid for her showcasing the latest optimized and practical combos.

[@Shin_Blackmetal]

This video is godlike and mad helpful! Thanks a lot. A question if I may: In her alternative J.B, after 623A~A, Ciel does 2A>5B>3B. But when I try it, 3B more often than not drops after 5B. Any idea why that is? Note: Tested this on V.Sion and Akiha so far prior to this question

[@XxTexasTimxX]

Can you time stamp me the combo you are talking about? Just wana make sure im looking at the right one.

[@Shin_Blackmetal]

@@XxTexasTimxX 4:10

[@XxTexasTimxX]

@@Shin_Blackmetal Ah that one. Doing 2A 5B 3B pick up off of 623A~A with so little gravity is either very hard, or char specific. There are some chars, like tohno and nanaya, that it works on pretty easy. Some chars require delay, so 2A 5B delay 3B, to work. For juggle animations in melty, almost all chars falling hitbox extends lower to the ground as they fall, so if you delay enough for the animation to change states to that slightly later part of the falling animation, then the 3B can work. Finally, some chars, this particular route doesnt work on. When I made this vid, i kinda just picked a random char and did what I thought would work, lol. The more standard route there is to just do 2A 3B 2C 236A. So chars, you might be able to do 2A 3B 2C B-Rock 5B 3B 2C..., and get some loops toward the corner.

[@Shin_Blackmetal]

@@XxTexasTimxX AHHHH Okay see I assumed I'd have to omit 5B just in case due to the nature of P.Ciels combos and stuff lol I'll lab it out against other characters, but stick to 2A 3B for consistency! Thanks a lot Tim!

[@XxTexasTimxX]

@@Shin_Blackmetal Hey, np. Ill give you a bit of advice for this particular route. Doing stuff > j.B land 5B 3B 2C 623A~A can be hard by itself on a lot of chars, because it usually leaves the opponent a bit too high to get the 4 hits required for the ~A dive kick follow up to the 623A. A better, more universal route is: 2A 5B 6B 2C NO DELAY 3C delay j.B land 6B 2C delay 623A~A land 2A 3B 2C 236A. Its basically a universal route that works on everyone except Ries( becuase j.B land 6B whiffs on Ries for some reason). I show case it in some of my newer F-PCL vids. I think the char specifics one, and the midscreen optimization one. Here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZoTIhn-khbx8a9U and Here is the more optimized route: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZCQinVvnciDjKc

[@shiroi8381]

Hey amazing video ! Just a question, for the basic J.C combo, I can't for the life of me get the 5 hits of the dive kick to hit, max i can get is four, so I am not sure whether I did not delay it enough or delayed it too much lol

[@XxTexasTimxX]

4 hits is good. That will give you the hard down. You can sometimes get 5 hits (or more) but it requires PCL to be a certain amount above the opponent. The way I do it is adding delay between the j.236A and the A follow up (j.236A~A). On most combos, by the time you are doing j.236A~A, you can delay long enough for 5 hits anyways. So 4 hits is fine.

[@shiroi8381]

@@XxTexasTimxX I see ! So the main reason for delaying the dive kick is so that we can get a hard knockdown ? I was a bit worried because I was afraid it was going to mess up the follow up.

[@XxTexasTimxX]

@@shiroi8381 Yes, the main you delay the divekick is for the hits needed to get the down. The 5th hit does make catching the ground bounce a little easier, but anything you can do to pick up off of 5 hits, you can pick up off of 4.

[@onionlust6527]

What's the list of characters that j.B loops don't work on?

[@XxTexasTimxX]

Well thats a tough question to answer. There are routes for j.B loops that work on everyone. Its really hard on Ries because you can only pick up the j.B bounce with 2C, so you cant get as much forward movement as like j.B 5B/6B. Satsuki is also hard. You can do j.B and 6B 2C route on her, but then when you get to the B-Rock link j.B you have to catch the bounce with 2C since 6B is too slow for the second bounce, and 5B wont hit satsuki from j.B bounce. Everyone else, j.B land 6B 2C ... B-Rock j.B land 5B will work. There are some other ways to optimize for various chars, or from a modified route that preserves the jump cancel for the second j.B. I think I touch on all of those in the optimization vid I made for her. Let me know if you have questions about a specific char, or combo route.

[@BDtetra]

i know this is a old video but damn, F Pciel is so hard with a controller. Probably much easier on a hitbox or something but there are so many places where you can accidentally input a Hadou command instead of 2 -> 3 which is devastating.

[@XxTexasTimxX]

Yeah, I can only imagine for a pad. The inputs need to be fairly precise and done at speed. I hear mixed opinions from hitbox players about the difficulty of doing half circles. Some say its easier, some say its harder.

[@BDtetra]

@@XxTexasTimxX Thanks for the reply. Any tips on hitting air 236A so that you can follow up? I can't get the follow up 2A to launch correctly consistently.

[@XxTexasTimxX]

@@BDtetra hmmmm. There are a few things that affect it. First, you have to get the hard down hit from the j.236A~A. Generally, you need the dive kick portion to hit at least 4 times, but there are situations (mostly were you are very high) were you can skip hits, and get a late hit that is a hard down. Once you get the timing for a hard down, you then need to pick up off the bounce. The big trick to getting the pick up easier off of the kinds of combos i use in my vids, is that the air throw is done as low as you can (in other words, as fast as you can after the jump). Its technically possible to get the pick up off any hard down on the dive kick, but certain heights become very tight links. The lower the opponent is, and the lower pcl is, the easier it is to pick up the bounce. For an audio queue, I use the sound of the opponent's bounce as my queue to hit 2A.

[@BDtetra]

@@XxTexasTimxX Damn, the audio queue tip is actually phenomenal. I tried it a few times and it actually works perfectly!! That was a huge help. Now I just need to get my Rock inputs after 3C consistent enough.

[@XxTexasTimxX]

@@BDtetra Nice. Glad I was able to help. :)

[@jayeri656]

Hey really appreciate the video as a beginner to melty blood but when it comes to doing to basic jC loop, for some reason after the j.236AA, I sometimes end up on the other side of the opponent and crossing them up, is there anyway to avoid this and stay on the same side and avoid potential drops?

[@XxTexasTimxX]

So, I'll start by saying that this char is not beginner friendly. Her execution requirements are pretty high, and even her basic combos can have issues like you are describing. Hopefully, I dont give you information overload here. Just let me know if there is something you dont understand that I say. Basically, some chars can be crossed up with her j.236A~A divekick. It happens because the opponent is too high relative to you. I assume the route you are going for is like the 1st one, Ground stuff > 2C 3C j.C j.236A~A > maybe more stuff. To make the opponent lower with this route, the best ways are to add delay. stuff > 2C delay 3C jump delay j.C j.236A delay A... Another way is to use the high jump for the jump cancel after 3C by holding 8 after the 3C. So, stuff > 2C 3C [8] hj.C j.236A~A. That route should solve the problem best is the delays seem too weird, but the high jump cancel off 3C can only be used once per combo. So if it still crosses up the opponent for the second rep, where you link a j.C from 3C > B-Rock, then you will need to add the delays I described above in the 1st solution, or try to use a neutral jump for this second j.C. This high jump variant will often have a late, last sec hit, before the opponent and you hit the ground. This is usually good, as it makes the 2A link off the bounce easier. Another solution is to increase gravity by adding in more hits before the first j.236A~A, but that would require you to change to a different combo route, like going for the basic j.B routes a bit later in the vid. However, you will likely discover that the j.B routes have their own issues with being consistent on the whole cast that you will have to work through. Namely, j.B land 5B can be really weird to figure out on the whole cast.

[@mikuhatsune2988]

Quick question: What are the pros and cons of jc combos vs jb combos? The only real difference I can spot is that jc j236a allows for conversions when the opponent is too high for jb, since the jc routes and jb routes seem to do similar damage and give the same oki.

[@XxTexasTimxX]

Yeah, theres not much difference between the 2 routes if you go for the more 'basic' routes. In short, the j.C routes are easier to start out with, because you dont have to worry about catching the j.B ground bounce, which has a fair amount of char specific knowledge attached to it. It comes down to preference, and what you find easier/cooler/more fun to do. For more optimized routes though, j.B routes are required. They do allow for more damage with less hits, as you hopefully see when you get to the optimization vid I made for her. You prolly dont have to worry about it too much starting out with her, but doing j.C routes means that you likely will need to do multiple j.236A~As, and those routes give a lot of meter to the opponent. There shouldnt be too many situations where they are too high for j.B to combo properly. I cant remember if I show them in this vid or not, but I think the best combo route to learn for her that is fairly universal and will lead to good damage and oki are her j.B land 6B 2C routes. They work on everyone except Ries.

[@mikuhatsune2988]

@@XxTexasTimxX thank you so much for the comprehensive answer! I found simple jb routes to be a bit easier actually than the jc route actually. For the jc routes, actually, what do I do if I miss the ground bounce and the 2a otgs?

[@XxTexasTimxX]

@@mikuhatsune2988 Well unfortunately, if the 2A hits otg, theres not much you can do. The opponent gets to tech, PCLs tech punish game is very bad, as her 5B is only active for 2 frames, and her 2C is not long enough to punish back tech midscreen after otg 2A and has too much recovery to leave you at advantage if they dont tech. You might try 5C to tech punish, but its recovery is also slow enough to not give advantage if they dont tech, and if they do tech, its really hard to confirm into anything. Its also very hard to punish neutral techs with her 5C because of how much forward movement it has. It becomes a scramble situation if they tech. You either try to back off, get out of the scramble and into neutral, or you embrace the scramble and rps with like 623A or A/B rock lol.

[@mikuhatsune2988]

@@XxTexasTimxX damn that sucks. I guess if I'm not confident I'll just take the safejump. Thanks!

[@hmmokiguess]

As someone new to FPCiel I did want to ask really quickly, should I still start with these part 1 video combos or are most of those a bit outdated in terms of best combos to learn? Asking because I saw you also have a video on optimization. Sorry in advance if I misread anything.

[@XxTexasTimxX]

No worries. She is a high execution char. Her combos are hard in general. The answer depends on you a bit. If you just want some easy-ish combos to learn so you can get into games and play against ppl without having to go deep into the training grind, then you might pick a couple combos from this vid. However, if you want to grind up front for some of her more optimal combos before you start playing matches, then you might want to go in on the optimization combos. Eventually, you will want to learn the optimized combos anyways, but initially learning an easier combo can get you into matches against actual ppl sooner. Then you can learn how her neutral game is played.

[@hmmokiguess]

@@XxTexasTimxX late reply but yeah I'm definitely in the former spot so this video has been helpful for the easier combos when I played against friends. Highly appreciate the notations and info you have in the video as well.

[@XxTexasTimxX]

@@hmmokiguess yeah np. prolly just need like the 1st three or so combos in the midscreen and corner vids, and maybe like an airthrow/ground throw from the throw vid. And if you play against a Ries or Satsuki, then youll need one from the char specifics vid that looks easy.

[@NekoArc007]

Hey what can u say about her "2A 5B 6B 2C 63214A>[follow] 5B 3C [hjc] JC 236A>[follow]" listed on mizuumi? For me 3C always wiffs even in corner. I even try charging 63214A and delay 2С but it just doesent connect for some reason...

[@XxTexasTimxX]

NekoArc007 I saw that combo listed in the wiki. It straight up doesn't work anywhere on screen. Full Screen, the A Rock follow-up wall slams, and they air tech before you can possibly get to them. Mid Screen, the A Rock follow-up puts them too high to combo 5B, and in the corner, you have the same problem. Another problem with this combo is that 2C > 63214A hits OTG, the follow-up wall slams, and the 6B before them wall slams too. It reaches the combo limit for such properties in a single valid combo after the follow-up for A Rock, and they become uncomboable in the corner. My guess is that whoever edited the wiki page for her had the training dummy set to not tech, and didn't know what 'invalid' meant. There are multiple combos on the wiki that share these same flaws, like: 2A 5BB 6B 2C 3C [jc] 623A>[follow] 63214A>[Follow] 5B 623A>[follow] for example. Hope that answers your question.

[@NekoArc007]

Yeah, pretty much, thx )

[@WalMartGod]

Could you make a video about pressure with this character? It's been a while since I touched this game and I figure I should try a character besides Wara.

[@XxTexasTimxX]

sdunkify I plan on making a corner combo vid, that maybe also includes air throw, throw, and CH combos next. But pressure and oki set-ups are on my to do list. A word of caution about playing this char. She is very execution heavy, and a lot of her stuff is char specific. I think it'd take most people a bit of time to get consistent with her rock loops, and j.236AA pick-ups.

[@WalMartGod]

XxTexasTimxX Thanks for the reply man. One more question: what do you use for streaming?

[@XxTexasTimxX]

I used OBS when I stream.

[@LilSodium]

what do all those things mean i dont understand this

[@XxTexasTimxX]

The short is that the numbers are the directionals. Use the number pad on your keyboard as reference, where 5 is no direction (neutral), 2 is down, 6 is towards the opponent, ect. The letters are the buttons you hit. You map these out to your physical buttons in the game's button config. A is light, B is medium, C is heavy. AT means air throw. I had a really long, comprehensive, and well formatted, explanation for you, but for some reason, I cant get any of the white space to stay in the comments section. So, this short explanation will have to do. Please feel free to ask specific questions about any of the combos, or notation in this, or any of my other vids.

[@LilSodium]

XxTexasTimxX thanks that helps a lot

[@zeronrb1739]

This video is pretty helpful, but is there a general write-up, overview, or guide for f-pciel? Seems like resources available for characters/moons varies pretty greatly.

[@XxTexasTimxX]

Thank you. If other f-pcl guides exist, then I don't know about them. A while back, I did write up a short, basic guide for the melty bits site, but I dont think it was ever uploaded. Iirc, I gave a brief overview of the char and her move list, and talked about offense, neutral, defense, and oki.

[@donsisqo4582]

@@XxTexasTimxX is there a way to see the guide you created? anything would help!

[@XxTexasTimxX]

@@donsisqo4582 Ill try and link to google docs. docs.google.com/document/d/1wi5_ffsxWrAB9dCpC_SJ2l5z7CQFqzPihaDocCnXHzE/edit?usp=sharing