McIntyre - PTR Catapult Science, What's happened?

[@FatedMusic]

With all the rumblings and how these changes look through videos like this, i'm really hoping they decide to keep these changes on PTR for a while longer or something. Being 'stuck' with this type of gameplay through-out the whole holiday season (most likely) would be absolutely awful for the game.

[@rafhaelsales]

remember holiday season in the stun meta in 2015? It's looking like that.

[@beaworldchild]

Very interesting to watch, McIn! Thanks for the video.

[@Sylfa]

The whole idea with the change was to stop the snowball effect, the early catapults don't push hard enough that getting a single fort will win you the game. The 3 vs 1 catapult holds the lane for much longer passively meaning you have a greater opportunity to stall out the lane before an objective so you can still realistically get a comeback even though a keep is down in your lane. And ofc, this isn't the change that went live since they altered the deal further to compensate for the pushed out lanes. In the end, forts are worth taking, but if your dealing with minion waves intelligently you can counter that pressure by freezing the lane (take out catapults + archers in the next two waves, then go to objective). As always, the issue is that someone see you missing the melee minions and go "help" you and ruin it

[@wtfronsson]

Looks like they could give the catas increased splash to hit more minions with. To increase the effect, but slightly enough that it doesn't break anything. You want them pushing in a bit harder imo. Here they only got a keep if a lane was literally unattended for over 16 minutes. This would not even be a thing in a real game.

[@DeuceGenius]

but they are so easily manipulated. what happens if u kill one or 2 waves

[@robin2thek]

Very interesting. For us more interested in depth of the game. I’d love more of these games videos when you talk about the game and analyze the game.

[@Sylfa]

I didn't see this video when it came out, but... Wasn't McIntyre one of the people who said that the catapult pushing the wave all the way over to the other side of the map is why the change in forts would mean you would never want to take a fort? Then this video shows that the early catapult is so scaled down that it won't do that and that's now the bad thing? Obviously I've been playing with the change, and watching tier 1 casts as well, and nobody seems to be bothered enough to not take a fort, so captain hindsight and all that. It just seemed funny that it's both the lack of push power and the extra push power that was the problem with the change.

[@McIntyreHots]

when the video was posted the passive 25% xp increase wasn't there. Taking a fort before that change was added did ultimately only slightly skew your lanes push rather then create any pressure, now taking the fort increases your xp gain and thus is typically worth it now.

[@thefigura]

maybe they could add creep deny, at least for catas... wouldn't that make for some interesting strategic play?

[@slikshot6]

but you took a keep eventually... so of course right side isn't ultimately going to hold

[@GOONGGWP]

did i just hear the newest member of HHE? :^)

[@JAMJR84]

Is it me, or does that little custom game logo in to the top right corner look like Arthas giving the middle finger?

[@nickwoodward819]

one of many reasons why i don't have any faith in blizzard when they make changes.

[@Smarackto]

why dont they just improve the minion stats instantly and over time .. instant bonus is like 10% more health for all minion and each minute they scale that up 1% per fort down. taking a structure early gives more advantage they dont get overpowered strong and waveclear becomes more imoportant(maybe thats good maybe thats bad) .

[@OnetastyJoe]

a minion wave with less stats always loses to the stronger wave, thats a ridiculous idea.

[@Smarackto]

@@OnetastyJoe yes thats the point good job grasping the idea

[@TheChiramu]

I was expecting a short summary of your thoughts about how this could affect real games 😕.

[@robertsommers3540]

He was late to scrimms making this video so he didn't have the time. He is talking through what it means tho.

[@TheChiramu]

He didn't have to publish it straight away then 😕, that's the magic of video.

[@dirtytoenail45]

BBJ being a higher level than you helps his minions push harder too.

[@dirtytoenail45]

nvm he right

[@nickwoodward819]

@@dirtytoenail45 nah, i thought the same as McIntyre - isn't that why you had to continually chase dunk stacks with azmodan vs the level you were at? because they got tougher?

[@Bruinetto]

Minions, structures, and mercs scale with time not EXP.

[@nickwoodward819]

@@Bruinetto ah, of course, nice one