Simucube Active Pedal vs Huesinkveld Ultiamte + with Simagic Haptic

[@Max__apex]

Amazing review …. Your precisions and breaking down the nuances tells me your engineering knowledge is on sound basis. Congratulations 🙌🏽

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Thanks mate. Glad you got some value from the review! Cheers

[@tc_simracing_broadcasts]

Thanks a lot for this extensive comparison. I've been using the Simagic haptic feature on my Heusinkveld brake pedal for a while now and have been pondering how big of the difference there is since the Simucube Active pedal has been released. For now I'll happily stick to my current setup.

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Awesome :)

[@Doing_The_Thing]

Thank you for the comparison. Pretty much seals the deal to just add an HPR or MQB-1 to my HE brake and call it good. Currently have the sim3d motors on all 3 pedals, which works OK but as you have mentioned is not ideal. You can power the simagic HPR with an amp directly instead of the control box, and connect it to sim hub as a bass shaker to get more tunability on the abs / wheels slip effect instead of the on-off output you’re getting.

[@Crispy.iRacing]

did not know that about bypassing the control box. Not really sure how that would work..how is it connected to the pc to get the telemetry data in that scenario?

[@Doing_The_Thing]

@@Crispy.iRacing Simhub uses audio channel outputs for bass shakers. You connect the amp to onboard or external sound card, amp provides power to the HPR. You can buy an adapter or just solder on 3.5mm banana style plugs to the HPR & connect to the amp. There’s a knowledge base around this stuff on racedepartment and a bit on the iRacing forums as well.

[@JoseFcoBN]

@@Doing_The_Thing Yes, you can put an amplifier, but to feed that coil, you need the amplifier to deliver a minimum of 21V. The problem is knowing how much voltage to reach, and then putting a voltage limiter on it, and then testing it, since the dynamic range may or may not be good, and if the range is greater than that delivered by the original board, you would have to control the temperature or add heatsinks. Someone already tested it and it worked fine with a 100W subwoofer amplifier...

[@Swindog00]

I have mine setup with the control box but controlled via Simhub. They work perfectly and the ability in the GT3 to know when you are approaching abs is next level.

[@Eskoxo]

Added simagic haptic to fanatec v3s like half a year ago and never looked back great upgrade. I think you are the very top of cost of diminishing returns curve.

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Yeah I agree

[@Mr_Latte_UK]

Loved this video and what you did here, great work.The truth is a particular $35 tactile exciter, I have highlighted (BDS) an produce a much wider range of frequencies than many other options people use or already have installed. It will blow away what you experienced with the "thud" nature the HPR has.

[@r4ever7]

IMO the difference between the two graphs is because te motor of the SC pedal forces your foot to lift of for each vibration cicle. That’s doesn’t happen with regular pedal because your foot remains in the same position during the vibration. That means that with SC your do lift a bit for each vibration for the games pedal input and I’m not sure if this is a positive point 🤔

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Both lift the pedal but yeah thr sc much more so. Not sure if good or bad tbh like you

[@r4ever7]

Thank you for the experiment, it’s very useful!

[@exci6198]

I've said this to people like 100 times already. Don't get the active pedal for the vibrational effects, get it for the adjustability and being able to get the perfect brake for you. I've advocated for pedal feedback since 2021. Happy to see it finally getting some traction.

[@alexs7088]

People seem to miss this point far too much. It's first and foremost a brake modelling device and the FFB part is certainly great but while not quite, is kind of like a sequential option in an H pattern shifter, its not why you get the device. And while you can certainly build your own perfect brake with the active pedal, for the realism crowd its a game ender in that you can have accurate models for various cars, as in a mile of travel for modern GT machinery or no travel for modern formula cars. And to me the seal the deal was the fact that even at 100kg of pressure you can have a hard wall to press so you aren't guessing if you have full brakes on.

[@drorzy_0485]

Would be interesting to see a comparison on this exact setup for non ABS cars like open wheelers or PCup car. Interested to see if one reacts better to wheel snatch/lockups better than the other.

[@DrR1pper]

Did you stick with the AP's after all?

[@blkcyborg92]

Which one did you end up keeping?

[@Wittygoose9341]

Can be less than 300 for iRacing as I guess the brake is the only meaningful feedback you need ? I can always add a 2nd or 3rd haptic reactor later.

[@filipivan5125]

I think theres a benefit of having one on brake and one on throttle. Wheel slip/traction and wheel lock. U dont want too many effects on same peddal.

[@vikingcat794]

it's like $300 for all 3. If you get a single HPR for brake and single bracket and control box, it's not that bad.

[@matttheazn]

what did you end up keeping? do you find that changing the brake travel distance in software is enough of a feature to better replicate different cars worth it?

[@JohnnyGification]

Thanks for the video. HE's here but have been running at 87 kg. I've run softer but I feel like I can control the car better when turning with a higher force. I don't know, maybe it's just me. I'm also a runner so maybe my legs are a little stronger.

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Yeah like you I always seemed to prefer the harder pedal. I used to run 65kg to 75kg range. Softer just felt harder to have a feel for the lower brake pressures. However when I was forced to go softer I was able to adapt. It did take me about a month or two to get back up to speed but eventually I was just as quick and now a hard pedal feels strange to me. The point is for me I just got used to the softer pedal. Plantar tears or the lesser plantar fasciitis are common in runners as it comes mainly from over use. I hope you never have to experience it.

[@dealscale]

You people have monster legs or something?

[@broodro0ster]

Thanks for the review! kg vs percentage will always be linear since it's the same for the software/sim. It's the pedal travel vs output percentage that's progressive on the HE's.

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Thanks...Makes sense, as the HE software does not show pedal travel distance. Cheers.

[@fingers68]

I'd like to see this mechanical screw engineered brake, in 3,4 year.

[@Spinelli__]

Would you consider doing a similiar video but without driver aids (ABS, etc.)? I'm curious about the SC's feel compared to other pedals. I know it has lots of options in terms of feel-adjustments but it's still a completely different system. It's like with wheelbases: the SC wheelbase has lots of adjustability but you'll never make it's feel and behaviour feel like, say, a belt drive wheel because they're fundamentally very different physical designs. Some dampening, filtering, friction, etc. settings can't just "magically" make it feel like anything in the world you wish...so I'm curious how the SC active brake feels compared to other good brakes you've used. For example, if you've used a true hydraulic cylinder brake before, how much can you make the SC feel like a true hydraulic system? Does it feel like a brake doing a "pretty good" job of mimicking the feel of a hydraulic brake via it's various settings/filters? Or does it mimic it so good that it truly, truly is basically indistinguishable from a truly hydraulic brake?

[@John-ok8ts]

Dude your reviews are the best by far. Probably because you are fast and buy the stuff yourself. Btw I run my ultimates at 36 and I found using a spring mod for the elastomers is far better than the soft elastomers

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Thanks mate!!!! Feels good to hear that you enjoy the reviews!! Interesting about using springs vs elastomers. At least one guy on our team does that with his HE ultimates...and he also prefers the spring approach. As always everything is personal in terms of what we like. What springs do you use. Interesting your run at 36kg :)

[@vikingcat794]

@@Crispy.iRacing I'd like to know about the spring mod as well.

[@BorisAngel_]

Nice comparison Martin. I always felt there was a delay with simhub when I used any sort of haptics with it that threw me off just enough to go away from using haptics in general. Curious, how strong do you have the overall level set to for the simmagic reactor? Have you tried the in-game lfe support in iracing?

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Hey Boris...Yeah...I was expecting a delay of feeling abs on the haptic compared to Simucube, but I could not sense any delay at all as mentioned in my side by side test. I have not made any adjustments to the power levels of the haptic...not actually sure how I would do that....the only power or intensity levels I did were in Simhub. I have not tried any simagic software. I have also not tried in-game lfe support.

[@JoseFcoBN]

What CPU do you have? Something is wrong with your system, what you say is not logical, although if you feed the amplifiers with deficient power supplies, it also creates latency ... I have been using Simhub for 8 years and I have never noticed latencies, and now I go with half of the bodyshakers, 8 rechorn B200i in the seat and 2 handmade 12 "on the pedalboard and another one on the DD base, I have everything mounted with independent damping, the seat with a lateral axis and 4 air shock absorbers and the pedalboard with 4 spring and rubber ones, and on the pedals (Brake and accelerator) 2 24V motors. and high torque, 24000 rev. Twice as large as those sold, with an arduino and 2 20Amp motor regulators mod so that it accepts the digital signal and a 24V. 20Amp source and a simple configuration in Simhub, putting many effects on the same device is a mistake, in my case there are few repeated things, and the only The effect that is present in all haptics is the gear shifting... Now the Moza active pedal is coming out, but I highly doubt it will bring me anything new. I will wait for the price and some reviews from trustworthy people, and if it doesn't suit me, I will make one for the brake... greetings.

[@marioslrzn]

Before buying the Active pedals for $2200, I would strongly suggest get the QS belt tensioner, that’s the most affects you can get. That thing is crazy good. I’m currently runnig qs 220 3 dof with the belt tensioner and the belt tensioner is the biggest jump. I have the HE + with the haptics on it and I just want some kind of feed back, I use ABS on brakes and traction and engine rev on the gas pedal

[@SamKatakouzinosRacing]

Thank you for this video. I have VRS DirectForce Pro Pedals. Been wondering if haptics could aid in feedback. I think I'm gonna put aside some money to add haptics to my pedals.

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Excellent idea. I have had the VRs pedals and they are also excellent. A friend of mine in my team has them and he added the haptic and said it was a game changer for him.

[@reviewforthetube6485]

I've been saying this. Also I don't think people realize the games need to fully implement these which most don't for the full effects. They still aren't optimal or at peak after all this time and probably never will be. All I know is I'm never ever going to buy it lol. I'm also the same as you I can't use heavy brakes due to my hips and lower back. I've even adjusted to lowering the brake force with software to help not have to push it hard. Sure it's harder to get used to but now it's super natural and normal for me. You can def adapt to anything. Also remember with your tear and issues. Never stop actually doing thus. It's fantastic physical therapy and Will actually help the muscle overtime. Even if it tears a little more it will help the surrounding areas get stronger. I did the wrong thing when I got hurt and avoided everything it made me 10x worse. The body is one funny thing and it truely knows how to help heal itself even if doctors tell you different at times. Lol

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Yeah. Re my plantar tear, keeping moving is really important as you say for the healing. It’s been four months of exercises and stretching daily so far and it is improving slowly. Sorry to hear about your injuries. Glad you were able to get used to a softer brake as I have. I just wish I had never tried to use a hard brake which caused my issues. But with the amount of driving I was doing over the past few years I determinedI was hitting the brake approx 4k times per week so it makes sense that my old ass body said yep that’s enough :). lol.

[@energyracing1]

Martin have you noticed a different level of feedback from the haptic when ABS is engaged? On mine I sometimes feel a variation in intensity from the haptic

[@Crispy.iRacing]

I don't seem to feel any difference in intensity from the haptic like I do in the SC when abs is engaged. I do feel a different intensity on the haptic when I use the wheel locking instead of the abs however.

[@energyracing1]

Thanks I think I need to look again in the simhub settings. It’s impressive to get that much detail from this

[@anjo2]

The ABS is based on telemetry which is the same for every app, Simucube, Simhub, racelabs, ioverlay, etc., the difference is on the force, the Simucube pedal is way stronger with a lot more acceleration. I will buy the Simagic Active Pedal if it has Simhub compatibility.

[@Crispy.iRacing]

You might be right but it is my understanding that sc is using a different api than apps like simhub. The api that simhub uses is the standard public one that all apps use and it has the stand telemetry data updated 60 times per second. In the sc discord the sc staff like Mika say that iRacing does not include wheel lock or tire slip in their api yet simhub seems to have that telemetry data. So either they are using different apis or simhub is somehow guessing based on other available telemetry data that there is wheel lock or tire slip.

[@jamespacker8603]

They are fully compatible with Simhub either justing the simagic controller or your own amplifier.

[@vikingcat794]

I didn't know simagic had an active pedal.

[@JSPEED981]

What wheel base do you use?

[@Crispy.iRacing]

I use the sc pro base. :)

[@dr_benjy]

I currently have a left side hip labral tear likely from using a heavy brake and overdoing it with the sim racing. Do you think Simucube pedal would be helpful as can set it much softer during my recovery ? Hoping the ABS feedback might discourage me from pressing as hard also

[@Crispy.iRacing]

So sorry to hear about your hip mate. That kind of chronic pain is tough to deal. Hopefully you can find relief through surgery. I am no doctor but maybe better to do as I do and switch to not using the affected foot for you sim and just do the rehab or surgery. Having said that yeah I did find the sc pedal was nice in its flexibility of adjustments for finding a pedal Pressure that worked better with my left foot. In the end I still don’t use my affected foot for braking yet instead I right foot brake for now. I decided to still use a soft pedal for my right foot as I did not want to damage the a change on my right foot.

[@jeeziRacer]

I wish the comment section was long enough to reply why I completely disagree, in nearly every aspect. As I have done literally both. I might do a video

[@liamconway3965]

As much as your comparison is how you drive & the foot problem you have......i totally disagree with your outcome. For those that don't have the active pedal, you truly cannot compare to a haptic. Having had both, & fortunately healthy limbs, the difference is you cannot push past the Simucube ABS, whereas the haptic is an add on & not within the pedal. Im not trying to justify one above the other, but explain the difference. The consistency is unparalleled, & i speak as someone who has had many topend pedals, from HE to Asetek Invictas. Feeling actual resistance & a more true ABS in the Simucube is a game changer. My lap times are closer than they have ever been.

[@Crispy.iRacing]

Hey Liam, All good mate...we are allowed to have different points of view. Glad you love your sc pedals, as the are a great addition to any rig. Just to comment on the points you made. 1. "you cannot push past the simucube abs" I am not entirely sure what you mean by this, so perhaps I am misinterpreting your point. But you can continue to increase brake pressure once abs engages and thus push past it. So likely you meant something else. 2. "Haptic is an add on & not within the pedal" Yes this is true it is an add on. But I am not sure why that is an issue here if I still get informed at the same time that the abs is activated? I too have been forturnate like you to have a number of high end pedals like the HE ultimates, Asetek Hydraulics, Simtage Hydraulics, VRS, Simucube just to name a few. (I think I have a problem lol). So our experience with pedals seems similar. I will add that the ABS in the simcube is a little better than the simagic haptic in two ways. 1. It has more control over the actual feeling in terms of it's intensity. 2. Rarely but it does happen.... less than 1% of the time, the simagic haptic will vibrate even when I am not applying pedal pressure. This sometimes would happen as I take t1 and nurburgring GP for example, but only 1% of the time. Also I have not had this happen at any other tracks. This could mean that the API used by simucube is different than the API used by simhub. But in terms of 99% of the time the abs vibration enagement starts and stops at the same when I compared then side by side in real time on my rig. I would drive with my left foot on the pedal with the haptic so I could feel the abs enagement while I right foot braked using the SC pedal, so that I could see if there was a delay in the ABS engagment on the haptic compared to the SC ABS enagement start and end. I could detect no real difference in response times. So yeah, the ABS feeling is a little better in SC than the haptic, as it is stronger, and slightly more variable in it's intensity, but for me I still get the same information about the ABS engagement from both, and there is not additional delay that I can feel with the haptic over the SC. Now of course there are many other benefits to the SC pedal such as customization of the feel like no other pedal on the market being to me the more important value proposition it provides, As such for sure the SC pedal has the ability to make any buyer happy with the way it feels. For me I am lucky that the HE Ultimate+ feels the way I want a pedal to feel and it also has enough adjustments to make most happy. Since that video I have sold my SC pedals, as for me they did not represent enough incrimental value for the money, and I was often a little quicker (like a tenth, so hard to concluded with certainty) with my HE Ultimate+ with haptics than I was with the sc pedals. I think that has more to do with me running a soft pedal (37kg) as the SC pedal mechanism just does not allow the pedal to move as freely or smoothly, so the SC pedal as much as I tried could not give me the pedal feel I got from the HE ultimates at the low pedal pressures I run. At pressures above 50kg I don't think that would be an issue. So for me there was just not the value proposition, but for many including yourself there is of course a value proposition. I will say these are subjective opinions like anyones opinion on these pedals, and different people will have different conclusions based on their personal experience. But since I had the opportunity to do a comparison that perhaps not many people are fortunate enough do do, I thought it would be worth while to share even if others may have different views. I have not seen another video where someone does a direct comparison so I thought it could help. Anyway. Enjoy your awesome pedals mate.