MeatEater Podcast Ep. 466 | Dire Wolves and Ancient Hunting Dogs

[@MrFtd07]

I know a falconer that uses his pointer to show his redtail where birds and squirrels are. Pointer points them out, hawk swoops down for the kill. Its a work of art watching them.

[@auto_5]

That is unbelievably cool and beautiful to me, being seriously into dogs, hunting, and ornithology(especially raptors). Thanks for sharing!

[@johnnybio1]

We all need to see this suggest to him to make a video that would be amazing to witness

[@Steve-ev6vx]

@@johnnybio1 his KZbin channel would be huge!

[@ajcochran3150]

​KI

[@thebloodyenglish6620]

Yeah it's amazing to see a mate of mine has done the same with with his GSP & his two Harris Hawks. Dog points the bird's sees this then perches somewhere suitable and when he can tell the bird's lined up and ready tells the dog to flush it. If he's got both birds working then normally one perches up as usual but the other sores a little bit above and waits incase the first bird misses. He tried getting his Goshawk to do the same but she won't. He thinks she's either too stupid or easily distracted 😅

[@8asw8]

1:36:40 In the hound world, at least for european hunting with dogs culture (driven hunts on Boar, Stag, Roe Deer etc), we have a saying that goes like this: 4 years your dog learns, 4 years your dog hunts, every year after that is a gift. It goes along with my experience so far. Roughly 4 years you have a rookie that will make mistakes and hopefully learns from them. 4 years, you have a dog in its prime that just works like a damn clock and you just get to enjoy peak performance. After that you notice the physical level go down but oh boy do they make up for it in experience. My last dog retired at age 10ish (a couple of hunts in year 11 but nowhere near what we were doing before). At the end he wasnt the fastest anymore but he was a weapon. If he didnt seem interested in a certain thicket than there was nothing there. If there was something in it, he would methodically empty it until there was nothing in it anymore, long after the rookie thought it was empty. He was there, done that, got the Tshirt, all multiple times. The last statement "every year after is a gift" has a double meaning. It is physically demanding work with a relative risk attached to it. So on the one hand the dog making it to age 8 isnt a given. Also if he makes it that long, you have the dog equivalent of a Brady-type GOAT. Needless to say, I miss that dog.

[@Florida.Cracker11]

I remember growing up my Dad had a tracking deer hound/fox hound was a Walker breed. To this day the best I ever seen. Ended up living 15 years hunted most of his 14th. I remember the last day of his life hunting was also the last day of deer hunting season. We put him on an older track he got out trailed a couple hundred yards came back and jumped in the dog box. My Dad said well Sam has retired everyone over the radio. He carried hunting season after hunting season. Placed in the Florida open fox trial. I'll never forget that dog on those times. He was like our go to lets kill a deer dog. It's tough with dogs in Florida with the Gators, Bears, Panthers, and snakes. A dog making it that long is wild.

[@8asw8]

@@Florida.Cracker11 Sounds like one hell of a hound! 14 active years is unheard of! You were blessed!

[@Florida.Cracker11]

@@8asw8 I didn't even know it was possible most our dogs didn't make it 5-8 years maybe. only time I ever seen my dad bury a dog and make a marker. We normally had 20-30 dogs at a time. He even have him canned and wet food. Didn't even go in the pens anymore he lived in the yard.

[@larryborn1082]

I LOVE listening to the anthropologist talk about all things dogs so passionately. She is awesome!!!

[@tigersbaseball1989]

Man these are some of the best podcasts. Love when they have these archeologists on. Super interesting.

[@robertferguson533]

It is a pretty good lineup

[@AlfredoTorres-sb6sw]

This podcast instantly went to the top of my list once they started posting videos. It’s so much more impactful and entertaining to be able to put a face to the voices. The trouble is, now I don’t know what I’m going to do this deer season, as my previous practice of not listening to episodes for several weeks so that I had plenty to listen to while in a tree will clearly not be happening this year.

[@lukefiveash1427]

road trips to hunt me and my buddies save up the trivia... Def passes the time and determines who buys gas lol

[@justinnorris4081]

I love how Steve stands up for big game dog hunters!!

[@peterwebb8732]

Hell yes!

[@richardruss30]

I read the novel series "Clan of the Cave Bear," when i was a teenager, and have been fascinated with early human interactions/domesticattions with wild animals ever since. I'm glad i found this podcast

[@jeremywanner4526]

Amazing series

[@theteehee80]

Dr. Angela Perri is awesome - this was a great episode.

[@johnnottahcal5725]

I was always blown away how my old water dog could turn ‘it’ off with the prey choice! You know he has the ability to take that animal aside and tear it into a feather pile like he did as a pup with the wife’s feather pillow, but he knows that his job is to bring it as gentle as possible under the current conditions! Just insane.

[@thatmanbran1811]

I'm so pumped you're doing video now for your podcasts! I didn't know until listening to this episode today on Spotify

[@wagstag89]

I currently have a female black mouth cur that will go from treeing squirrels to blood trailing deer or hogs, to retrieving doves without tearing them up and it took years to fine tune everything as far as what to hunt and what to ignore, and how to hunt the way I wanted but its very rewarding in the end and I can absolutely understand why dogs were so useful to our ancestors and why they are sometimes found buried in a ceremonial way. I think back on some of my dogs most amazing moments and the food she helped provide and it gives a glimpse into how ancient man would've felt about a good dog when every day was a struggle for survival. Awesome stuff

[@jlondon1441]

Grew up around working dogs. Labs, Retrievers and Airedales, seen a lot of different behaviors. My roommate brought home this lab mix he rescued from his kids. Thing has webbed feet, so I was all about doing some basic training and taking her out in the boat with me. Not hunting, but figured water dog, right? Damn dog won’t get three feet near water. Damn near refuses to piss outside if it’s raining, won’t step on wet sand on a beach and loves to sit in a boat on dry land but won’t get out of the truck at the ramp. 😆. Tried scent training, just noses around until she gets bored and then watches me. Taken her out to the range a few times, pulls on lead or just runs back to the truck at the first shot to get the hell away. Won’t fetch or retrieve anything you want. It’s like she’s a contrarian, if you want it, she ignores it. I’d say she’d make a great bush diver, flushing game out the way she sprints after chickens, doves, birds in general and rabbits, but again, fire a shot and she’ll disappear back to the truck. She won’t grab anything she’s chased down, maybe give it a feel with her mouth once, but no grab and shake to kill. She’s not a lap dog, has no real interest in petting or scratches. Most useful thing I can find about her is she’ll bark at any strange noise inside her “territory” at home or in the woods camping. Loves to play tugs and chase, fast and strong as hell. Takes commands pretty easily, smart enough to heel and follow me around. Won’t get but about a mile before she just lays down and refuses to move, no matter her conditioning. The only reward she is really interested in is tugging on a toy with me, she’ll take a treat or food, but will just hold it in her mouth and spit it out when you’re not looking. Give her a bone or pigs ear and she’ll chew on it and not let you near it, even once she has walked away from wherever she has set it down. Not aggressive with her food bowl, just those bones or ears. Also like to eat out of the fire pit, burnt wood and the like. If you are dragging or carrying wood around, she’ll grab the other end and try to run ahead of you, but won’t carry anything on her own anywhere near where you want her to take it. Been with us since she was 9 months old, it’s been a year since he brought her home and I’ve just taken to playing keep away with most things. She’ll run down a tossed ball, get it about halfway back at a good pace and throw it a few feet between us. If I go for it she’ll run it down and toss it another few feet away. When I get to it, if she overruns it, I just bat it a few feet in another direction. We’ll keep that up for 20 minutes or so and then it’s time for her to roll in the grass and go sit inside, or she’ll just lay panting and look at you like “whenever you’re ready to head in”.

[@sblakeyca]

What a great episode - Dr Perri is an amazing guest - and I didn't think I would enjoy the video as much as I did - adds a new dimension to the guest and host interaction.

[@deannalemburg10]

Don't know how you get so many knowledgeable people to come on your podcast but keep doing it if I am going to waste time in this life listening or watching other people this is the place to be besides entertainment there is actual usable knowledge Thank you thank-you (p.s. come from family with montra if you weren't working at something you were wasting time)

[@skersfan6751]

Man, if you don't like Brent Reaves... i dont think we can be friends. The guy just seems like a down to earth, genuinely good human.

[@deathdealerd2648]

Brent is a very good person, I have known him for years...

[@Jefestephens]

I couldn’t think of two better guys to represent us Arkansans. Hell, I’d vote Brent for President!!😂

[@brianwinchester7535]

You and me are friends now.

[@robertferguson533]

Old School Dog Man. That’s about as cool as a human can get

[@DogTrainingwithDad]

One of the best podcast I have ever listen to thank you mediator for bringing on such an expert panel

[@JohnMark-th6kr]

I always enjoy Brent and Ronnie! Love the hunting dog podcast and this country life both very much.

[@MrFtd07]

Id love to see her go to The Alaskan Boneyard and talk to that guy/look over his specimens

[@jameswhite9295]

YES!

[@brandonstewart4349]

I was thinking the very same about having them both on this show

[@Nick-hm2dm]

This is the first podcast I’ve seen from Meat Eater, but I think it’s a good one to watch. Angela Perri brought a lot to the table I think. The conversation was super interesting.

[@mountaingoattaichi]

Awesome conversation!! I have listened to her lectures on YT but this was more informative with all the input from Rinella et al.

[@scottmoloney5052]

THAT WAS A DAMN GOOD PODCAST.....really interesting..well done 👍👍

[@ModernArcher262]

I enjoy just about everything Steve does, but him citing Joan Didion AND Slouching Towards Bethlehem right on time just tied it up for me. Fantastic show, and wonderful content throughout the entire show.

[@devina.1051]

Sweet, something to listen to while at work! These podcasts are awesome!

[@trailblazer632]

I really would like to hear the in depth discussion on what caused the dog to... release... the kill part of the hunt to the human. Was it part of the pack interaction of alpha leadership from the wolf hierarchy system? Was it the treatment of the dog and the praise doing something for their brain chemistry that caused endorphins that the dog was chasing after? What was it about dogs, or wolves really, that made them so accepting of such a thing?

[@charlockprime]

So.. when can we expect to see Angela Perri's new mini-series on the MeatEater KZbin channel?

[@sblakeyca]

Yes!!! Needs to become a regular!!

[@zachbrazeau3886]

Whole heartedly agree

[@sharpasfknives]

It"s funny that i live on the different fricking continent and yet Meateter crew is always doing topics that are perfectly aligned with my intrests. THANK YOU!

[@ew4395]

Really enjoyed the content of this podcast. If more researchers were on this form of podcast, their work would be more enjoyed and appreciated.

[@frankiekk9669]

What a good podcast should bring her on again

[@colinjohnston5465]

The word for strangling someone with a thin ligature is a garrote or garote, pronounced "gar-rot" in French and English. You're welcome! Great podcast! Incredibly informative and really well presented. The thought of migrating across the frozen Atlantic from flow to flow taking seals to eat is as incredible as the migration East over the Baring Sea.

[@McflyBeGood]

I lived in Ketchikan for 3 years. Can confirm its the best airport ever. Small, easy to navigate, nice bathrooms, bunch of good food, great view and you can converse with almost anyone there.

[@jasonpwnd]

This one is fascinating. I love the study of dogs. My high school wrestling coach had a coydog or a dingo as a dog. It was pretty feral lol but it was super attached and protective of him (as if he couldn’t protect himself, he was built like John Henry)

[@mollyanson6544]

I love that they have women on the show too that are super knowledgeable and successful in their field!

[@jameskearse8617]

Great podcast! Good to see Ronny Boehme back on. And Brent is always a great guest

[@p_campbell]

Back in 2004 i did community service for Texas Surplus Property Adjency . The got ALL the confiscated goods from DFW and Love field..... and we made 10lb bags out of it and sold it back out. 90% of it was scissors. But there were some awesome knives in there.

[@ianwebb2235]

This is so fascinating......Thank you. We are really enjoying this......

[@davewilliams2757]

“King of Dogs” by Andrew Edwards is a dystopian novel that has some commentary of the historical dog/human relationship in it. Great podcast thank you.

[@jasoncavari]

Love this episode!! Maybe an episode about Eurasian “war” dogs would be interesting

[@tomfu4407]

Didn't know about this podcast and didn't know Steve would be such a good host, nice.

[@Florida.Cracker11]

I remember growing up my Dad had a tracking deer hound/fox hound was a Walker breed. To this day the best I ever seen. Ended up living 15 years hunted most of his 14th. I remember the last day of his life hunting was also the last day of deer hunting season. We put him on an older track he got out trailed a couple hundred yards came back and jumped in the dog box. My Dad said well Sam has retired everyone over the radio. He carried hunting season after hunting season. Placed in the Florida open fox trial. I'll never forget that dog or his time with us. He was like our go to lets kill a deer dog. It's tough with dogs in Florida with the Gators, Bears, Panthers, and snakes. A dog making it that long is wild.

[@robertferguson533]

Walker Hounds are the best. I’ve got 6 of them listening to this with me right now ranging from 13 years to 3 years. Retired Virginia deer dogs

[@paulfityo1]

Just found this one, as a dog man this episode is amazing.

[@codyjosephbennett95]

My kid got a wooden goalie Colorado Avalanche mini stick taken from him in Seattle after flying from Denver to come back to Alberta. Got given to him from doing the junior announcer at his first NHL for his favourite team. Can’t buy a replacement online either.

[@Rk-ed3ul]

I just finished "A Dog's History of the World". This is such a fascinating subject.

[@KurtOnoIR]

I read somewhere once about the cheetah being possibly the first domesticated hunting animal. In Africa, before dogs, before modern humans. I'll try to come back with the source on that but included something about the genetics of the cheetah showing that it was domesticated long ago and then became wild.

[@ZongTaVEVO]

Good callout on "culled". I had no idea that was being said.

[@callmecamo2]

I am a proud hunter, fisherman and golfer. There's plenty of us here, most likely in the lower latitude states. Gotta have something to do in the blazing summer, Steve.

[@josecruz021]

I'm still only at 36:00 and thinking maybe a food shortage or some kind caused them to end up closer together band eventually working together?

[@Captwillard]

It’s pronounced “gar-rot” and not “Garrett.” It’s actually the name of the weapon, which is basically a thin rope with a wooden handle at each end used to strangle a victim. Allegedly one was used on the Jamal Kasshogi when the Saudi government assassinate him in the Turkish embassy.

[@johnherring450]

Perked up a little when she mentioned boar hunting in Japan 😂😂

[@geoffharris3005]

This was awesome! Great discussion and information/history

[@swarmar3085]

Steve you need to look up Jack L. Childs he was the (Project Coordinator Borderlands Jaguar Detection Project) here in Tucson Arizona. He is the guys that photographer MACHO B during training of his lion dogs. You would love this old cowboy great personality and beautiful voice. Lots of knowledge. He is friends with Warner Glenn of New Mexico. Warner took the picture of the jaguar 🐆 in New Mexico and a couple of months later Jack took the pictures of a different jaguar in Arizona. It would be amazing to have his story and knowledge for the next generation of people with the same interest in wild life as ours. This is the 1st time I listen you your post cast and is right on with everything I have seen and read from you. Always very educational. 👍

[@8asw8]

Didnt they do a feature on Warner Glenn recently?

[@swarmar3085]

The last piece that I saw about Warner Glenn was done by MeatEater about 5 months ago. Warner Glenn, as you know, is a mountain lion hunter, but Jack L. Childs became a conservationist after photographing Macho B in 1996 before studying him for 13 years. He has worked with Arizona Game and Fish Department, along with the US Fish and Wildlife Services, and the University of Arizona Bioscience department. I think Jack L. Childs brings a unique perspective of the research of the incredible cat that roamed the Arizona southwest. By having him on the MeatEater podcast, he could shine light on the complexity of such a majestic animal that is native to tropical environments yet found in the desert.

[@8asw8]

@@swarmar3085 Thats what I meant, I watched that video about Glenn and was thouroughly impressed by the man. I will have to look into Jack Childs, havent heard about him so far but seems like an interesting dude. (I am european, so we dont necessarily know the same people/conservation heroes. I am pretty sure you dont know Prof. Paul Müller of Saarbrücken and Trier for instance, who is an inspiration for me and one of the influences that made me study forestry and wildlife ecology)

[@tinncan]

I also would have guessed more m80 ball so 147, or did they round it?

[@sharlonbarnes8977]

finally! someone who acknowledges coydogs exist! i have had so many arguments over this.

[@stephenballard3759]

I can't believe Steve pronounced "garrote" like "garrett".

[@mesanchez9310]

And all but one person was like yeah we know what that means LOL

[@zachnelson3555]

I had heard a rumor that a Dire Wolf was found at a archeological site on the north west coast of canada. The story goes is that a ancient hereditary leader from Haida gwai had a Dire wolf as a pet and allegedly this site was carbon dated to 22,500 years ago.

[@terdferguson1736]

Wow more and more evidence really throwing a wrench in the history everyone is being taught.

[@richardruss30]

Do tell? When was the archeological work done, who led it, and where did it take place? I'd love to hear more

[@michaelmann101]

I can listen to Angela Perry for hours.😊

[@derekhaynes4251]

I absolutely love this topic. I think it’s great and educational and eye opening and makes me think that n it all in so many different ways. Thank you so much for this.

[@sethwilson1268]

I'd be shocked if AT LEAST 50% of Steve's fan base didn't list their top 3 hobbies as: -Hunt -Fish -Golf ***I know you're reading this Phil- tell him***

[@Bryanskynner]

💯 I think almost every hunter on the planet plays golf as well I know Jim shokey does

[@calgal5752]

There is a minuscule percentage of us who are old ladies who grew up in Los Angeles and never got to do this stuff. 😂

[@danorris5235]

Maybe it's a Midwest perspective Steve has on this. I live in rural western WI and there are over six supposedly decent golf courses within a reasonable driving distance. Plenty of people golf in my area. Plenty of people hunt. I know zero men who do both. Nothing wrong with it, just different crowds out here.

[@hoglefish]

Steven produces another killer product! Angela Perry seams like a cool person.

[@davidachatz14]

This is probably my favorite episode ever

[@paulmendolia8483]

My bladder would never make it through a podcast.

[@TheFillerhoff]

How did wild dogs like dingoes and African wild dogs fit into this?

[@stephenballard3759]

African wild dogs are a different branch. Dingos in Australia are domestic dogs that have rewilded themselves.

[@dbuti164]

This might be the longest Ron has ever gone without smoking a cigar

[@cbbbbbbbbbbbb]

There was some recent examples of baboons, don't remember which African country, domesticating dogs. They were reportedly taking puppies back into the tribe. I'll have to find the source again. It would be very interesting to see how that process plays out in real time to find analogs in our history.

[@henrysimon8554]

Top tear episode I gotta say. Great call having her on!

[@Rk-ed3ul]

Is Angela's dissertation available anywhere?

[@Don-ou6dz]

I've been a huge fan of rinella for years but I'm new to the podcast ..who is the lady that doesn't talk much at the end of the table with the crazy eyes that just looks in all directions it was so mesmerizing to watch her I couldn't follow what other ppl where saying

[@natehayes82]

The wife of Brent

[@Don-ou6dz]

@@natehayes82 and Brent is the dude with the grey beard on the the other side of the table right ?

[@natehayes82]

@@Don-ou6dz correct

[@pinkrose4824]

SAME!!!

[@lukebonagurio4503]

Steve your wrong on the grateful dead song. It came off the album working man's dead.

[@anthonyraye5831]

I’m a golfer… I don’t hunt…. Never have. But I love to learn about things I don’t go actively to do so I can learn. But in Maine I play Golf with a lot of dudes who hunt…..

[@yootoober49]

Listening to this today. A year after i had to put down my faithful friend Argos. Named after Odysseus' dog.

[@timothyknutsen5212]

Nice work everyone, good job Steve.

[@MrBnfl]

love the new version of the podcast ❤ It seem more unedited! The polish shit is in the past , who wants that? I hope meat eater tv show goes in the same direction

[@calebnome1194]

Been waiting for an episode like this for awhile now

[@markbutler5707]

Love your hunting show . You and your friends hunting got me through a lot of hard times. The episode when you got hit by the moose was hilarious. Glad you were ok

[@rabbitriverdecoys955]

Very cool show. Had me wondering about Carolina dogs and blue Lacy hounds .

[@patrickkruse3349]

Steve .... You're not a Golfer. You foresee your shot. You gauge your distance. You incorporate your obstacles. Plus, especially beat yourself up for your mistakes. Obstacles are always outside of your control. I can't believe you don't see the similarity. I'm a Bull Elk AZ Hunter.

[@tardocnc503]

So worth the watch

[@trihall2273]

Wow. Great❤ Thank you very much😊

[@dangerousdylan6262]

It's absolutely criminal that yall didn't have Clay Newcomb on this podcast to talk about Plott Hounds....

[@victorygarden556]

Do you know of any videos where he talks about plott hounds? Very interested

[@dangerousdylan6262]

@eboremilly6296 no videos but he talks about them on his podcast Bear Grease

[@daltonbell7332]

Man, my blue tick named Waylon passed a few months ago. Damn good dog

[@timothyknutsen5212]

I'm curious about the Norwegian Elk Hound. My Grandfather had one and said she was the best hunting dog he ever had. This is an older breed, correct?

[@justinstation9969]

Great Podcast keep them coming 👍👍👍

[@trihall2273]

Thank you DR. Angela p

[@WHiT3_SHAD0W]

1:30:20 idk where or when, but I've watched something about people putting (I think) a dead horse in a lake and months later it was technically edibal(Idk how to spell) Idk if it was an experiment or a culture thing. Maybe that was what she was going to talk about before being cut off.

[@aaronisham9700]

one of the best episodes yet

[@JakeFarm371]

I learned so much on this one, thank you!

[@mudpuppy4963]

Wild that I wrote an academic paper on ancient dogs and for the first time other than that paper, and the few sources for it, I see something like it out in the wild

[@mudpuppy4963]

I'll jump on, I'm a historian not a "scientist" but the term domestication usually has the process involved, whereas tame can refer to a single animal

[@TheSwimbaitGrind]

Have had hunting dogs for birds, deer, fox, coyotes, raccoons, rabbits and squirrels my whole life, and I’m 4th generation hounds man. I’ve trained individuals to hunt one species. If I’m deer hunting I don’t want them to tree a raccoon or run a rabbit or fox. & you can train a beagle to run a buck deer. I’m not going to say how on here but it can be done. Loved this podcast and would love to see another one with a couple different hounds men with different backgrounds and styles of hunting and people across the country

[@jamesbender1967]

Lost a bench made folder!? Cheapest one I’ve seen is $150!! As much as $400!? Crazy. That a big loss.

[@cassidylockard1527]

Land bridge?? and didn’t the oceans freeze up north in the winter time.

[@334outdoors8]

You can get your stuff back from tsa if go through the online process

[@DM-sn3jm]

Dam I wish I took that anthropology class in college seriously… this is some interesting stuff.

[@cameronmcleod7740]

Brian Jonestown Massacre as Steven favorite band totally caught me off guard. Great choice in music.

[@mainelyprimitive]

"And after thousands of years one dog was developed that could learn every task asked of it with ease...it would become referred to as the German Shepherd..." I have hunted with a shepherd for 14 years,Gunner my first and Ishi now. Both hell on rabbit, woodcock/grouse and Gunner would do turkey. Like having a remote control coyote that retrieves! I use Ishi for trapping and tracking now too...

[@charliesullivan8436]

This was much more interesting than watching the GOP presidential debates. Thank you!

[@stanleyshelby7460]

I started watching, began losing interest and before going elsewhere something was said that kept me listening. Happened a few times but made it to the end, so thanks for expanding my knowledge I never considered or thought about.

[@OGTWC]

Angela, or anyone on the podcast... how do we know the paintings or drawings, (ie: cave pictures of man and dogs/wolves together), are drawings of what happened or currently happening, in their timeline? Couldn't people draw depictions of a persons thoughts of the future? Like, the Neanderthals dream of taming wolves, so they drew their thoughts/dreams on a wall? I don't think we can conclusively say when know when humans and wolves became partners because of drawings. Thoughts?

[@peterwebb8732]

That would be impressively abstract thinking from people of whom we have little other evidence of this.

[@bonsaiforu]

Steve’s laptop sticker is awesome!

[@jaredpeterson380]

Very interesting podcast.

[@devidoghangmans]

I live in American Falls Idaho and never knew that they found direwolves here😮

[@drewandcharlie7583]

Kinda interesting that dire dogs we’re actually a little smaller than the grey wolves of today. But people always assume they were bigger like the shortface or the North American lion but they werent. And if they weren’t bigger then it’s interesting to think of why they died out in the extinction event if 12,000 years ago while grey wolves survived. I wonder if the grey wolves were more closely tied to people. Or maybe less?