Media Literacy, Spice, and A Failure to Communicate

[@Princess_Weekes]

☀Table of Contents 00:00 In the Beginning 01:17 media literacy! 13:31 it's an ad read y'all 15:06 🌽 on booktok 33:34 shipping drama

[@imlikekindatired]

Thank you :D

[@katherinealvarez9216]

Thank you

[@mz8584]

Princess Weekes, I just wanted to tell you THANK YOU for all your vids. You don't know how much I appreciate listening someone who talks about the things you talk about the way you do, because I don't dare talking about that with ppl around me. Thank you ❤❤❤❤

[@reedkellner6447]

Thank you! 23:20 - talking about Icebreaker

[@FrostytheAwesome]

My problem with the sex in a lot of “spicy” books isn’t that it exists but that it’s not good lmao. AO3 has given me high standards for my smut.

[@Sasu123456789x1]

Omg this 😆

[@panikiczcock2891]

Same. I can't get through those books, the writing quality is so bad 😭

[@adorabell4253]

From the excerpts I've seen it's at the level of mid 20teens fictionpress. There is a reason those stories were free.

[@scream_kinh614]

EXACTLY. Alot of smut in these published novels are genuinely wattpad level...

[@125loopy]

I can't read a lot of popular smut. It's been infected by the bdsm/female degradation aspects of p0rn. It's so disappointing.

[@princessvitani]

I wonder if part of this backlash is because all the online spaces are super combined now. Less forums for adults only and less spaces for kids to hang out in. Most people are shoved onto the same social media platform leading to a collison course of discourse between adults and teens and kids. also the unholy algorithm feeding on discourse

[@princessvitani]

ohhh what you said at the end about getting older and mellowing and honestly not having time to get into as much fights as you used to as kid yeah, I got a new full time job working 12 hour shifts. It really made me think about how I spend my time. I cant exaxtly spend 3 hours hate scrolling no more you know? It's kinda nice, forces you to think about what's worth engaging

[@itsblingblingpop8636]

there is also a factor of both kids and (this will sound strange, but hear me out) adult spaces being hard to monetize. Since sites (at least outside the US, to my knowledge) and media can't directly advertise to children in order to monetize it, creating media spaces solely for children (ye olde neopets and girls games) becomes "waste of money" to tech bros. On the other hand, exclusive adult spaces sotimes come with monetization as a means of age verification but at the cost of alienating a portion of adults who are simply not interested in that content. Which would be actually a good thing! But techbros want to advertise to literally everyone under every age bracket. and thus you get everyone put into the same social medias

[@KariIzumi1]

That’s absolutely a huge part of it, yes.

[@ChthonicDepths]

I 100% agree, yeah. I've studied digital anthropology some in college - not a ton, I just minored in it - and that squares with my experiences and findings.

[@griffenspellblade3563]

I would say the problem is kids coming into adult spaces and not keeping their mouth shut. Yes, I was in adult sections of the internet trying to talk about adult books in middle school. If you knowing barge into adult spaces you don’t demand they lower the rating to accommodate you. You move to somewhere else. You learn to filter.

[@alyxxm1019]

when i was 10, i read a YA book that exposed me to explicit sex for the first time. the narrator was a teenager, having sex with an adult. the sex was bad - beach sand everywhere, out of rhythm. that book didn't make me want to have sex. it made me want to think carefully about who i had sex with, when, where, and how. it made me realize sex wasn't always loving, and the sex promised by groomers isn't worth losing your virginity for. i'm glad i read it.

[@samaraisnt]

Damn, that’s a GREAT lesson!! 😭 every child needs to learn, preferably from a book. 😢

[@CrazyGamer1541]

@@vampireapologistyeah i want to know too- this sounds like an unlikely perspective

[@sawatee100]

This reminds me of that scene in “I’ll give you the sun.” Not sure if that’s the book you read, but yeah, same effect on me.

[@AB-gt6iv]

Okay. Let me guess. Was it Throne of Glass by Sarah J mass's Empire of storms?? I can guess by the description. Unless I am wrong.

[@squeezlepop]

I stumbled on something similar (maybe the same?) in sixth grade. The title included the word summer, I think. But yeah, the "boyfriend" was a college student and the girl was very young. I think I was too young to read it but it was impactful in the "don't date much older men" sense

[@princessjellyfish98]

Maybe it's cuz we're adults, but ship wars masquerading as social justice feels so embarrassing to watch. As Princess mentioned, fandom spaces online often have people of different ages interacting, and I'm willing to bet a lot of these convos are younger people discovering these ideas for the first time. But for people who are grown, it's time to let the soapbox go. You just like a different ship! That's ok! Shipping is not activism. Please go outside 😭

[@edencampanella54]

"Shipping is not activism". Really hitting the nail on the coffin, huh? I feel like this current online climate is all about being a good person, so to a lot of these people that's what their ship discourse is. Wild.

[@Homodemon]

I can't stand fandoms nowadays because I just know I'll just somehow end up fighting with a loud 14 year old that just discovered what the world "toxic" means and can't wait to apply it to their latest anime obsession and anyone who challenges their very basic knowledge about it. Is so tiring to be mindful of everything and everyone all the time because some kind might misread or misunderstand what you mean, I'm not a babysitter and I'm not a school teacher either. Community is poison, let's all learn to enjoy our hobbies by ourselves once again.

[@spiceupyourafterlife]

THIS! Like, there are real world problems going on out there and y'all are whining about Dramione being a thing? Get real!

[@KariIzumi1]

I will forever be grateful that Star Trek was my first fandom and that when I started showing my ass about shipping, the adults there nipped it in the bud. Granted, this was the early 2000s and very few people were trying the BS that’s become so normalized now but the one time I did see someone fuck around on TrekBBS to say a couple deserved to have their kid die bc they were a shit couple, they sure enough found out real quick.

[@nailinthefashion]

Booktokkers go outside and not to read smut in public challenge, level impossible, begin:

[@theomcinturff1213]

"We all have ancestral beef with Caillou." I wasn't ready to experience the truth.

[@zinaak4194]

FR!!!!

[@KUREHA3D]

this is actually so funny bc until Princess said this i didnt even realize it was true LMAOOO. no lies were told, i really do not know anyone that LIKES caillou

[@samaraisnt]

i must be the only person on the planet who actually likes it and I didn’t even watch it as a child 😂 I jfw the theme song so heavy and he doesn’t bother me 😩🤚

[@mewmew6158]

​@@samaraisntSee, if you had watched it as a kid, then you'd probably dislike Caillou (he was a brat that barely got in trouble).

[@emisformaker]

The way my book got slotted into YA because it doesn't contain s*x or s*xuality, but it does have quite dark themes surrounding death and dying, not to mention taking place after the climate collapse and featuring an elderly main character. And I had to explain to my publisher, and to the few places asking me about it, that it's nothing against YA as a category, but that I didn't want people to show up for one thing then get something else.

[@lidaw.5145]

your book sounds rad

[@emisformaker]

@@lidaw.5145 Thank you! I like it quite a bit myself.

[@TheDragonWalrus]

Was this in the US? (Does that still matter?) Props for looking out for your readers experience btw 🎉

[@emisformaker]

@@TheDragonWalrus This was with a small press in Canada, which is essentially a step up from self-pub in that you can be reviewed by most major outlets that still exclude self-pub. I was responsible for most of the marketing (oops!), so the distinction was for outlets that sell books to know where to stock it.

[@bobbybooshay5388]

Can't just give a cool synopsis like that and not drop the book name.

[@kimchi_kid]

i'm half korean who grew up in korea, but married a white american man and now lives in the us. "past lives" was such a specific experience that felt so personal to me. i cried a lot during that film. my husband even cried because he said he felt what the husband felt and there aren't a lot of movies that are that specific for our situation. i loved it. but it didn't resonate as much with a lot of my korean friends who don't date foreigners. so i feel such a close bond with this movie. ❤️

[@smplmachines]

I deeply enjoyed the film as well. Many in my circle do. But I think more specifically it's important to frame the film as speaking to the experience of those with transnational, intercultural or 3rd culture identity, adjacent to of more specific than the broader Asian or Asian American experience.

[@samaraisnt]

^ @smplmachines said so brilliantly!! 🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@IsSarahPi]

It all makes me think of that tweet that's like "Is [pop star] a feminist? Is MasterCard a queer ally? Is this tv show my friend?".

[@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396]

Princess Weekes’ channel is my new best friend. :)

[@booksvsmovies]

As someone who read their first adult romance in the fourth grade and had an ao3 account by age 12 I think a lot of the people who are terrified of the concept of kids reading books with sex in them are deeply removed from their own adolescence. Being curious about sex as a kid is normal and fiction is an appropriate way to explore those ideas safely and much more ethical than porn hub. I'm just imagining how different I would be as a person if my voracious reading in childhood was strictly policed and monitored for fear that I may read a "bad" book. Being squicked out by the idea of a 12 year old reading the latest booktok romance is fine but that visceral disgust doesn't mean your discomfort should be prioritized.

[@nerdywolverine8640]

for sure. same experience but had already experienced csa and found way too much terrible media online that was fully retraumatizing, but having access to healthy and honest depictions or even just self aware ones was never the problem. the problem was being isolated and having had my boundaries disrupted by traumatic events, as well as poor education and for the online spaces i was in poor etiquette (primarily grossly inadequate labeling and warnings). kids are going to seek out adult topics and spaces, even as there should be an effort to make sure adult spaces are separate from kids spaces and that there are spaces for kids. there are definitely things i should not have read or interacted with, but had i had that support i never would have chosen to in the first place. kids are smart and should be able to explore topics and learn at their own pace without being policed. fiction was absolutely essential in helping me heal as i found my way towards safer and healthier stories.

[@platedlizard]

I started my period at age 12. Having books (romance and fantasy) with sex in them allowed me to explore my body safely. People forget kids that age *are* developing sexually! Just because a 12 year old isn't ready for actual sexual relationships doesn't mean they shouldn't be exposed to that stuff at all.

[@killitwithfire5377]

not to mention how nice it is to be able to do that in complete privacy. Like, the thoughts and desires are there no matter what, but if there‘s no other way any of that can be explored, It‘s gonna be much more with or in the presence of other people. Not to say that kids would have sex but there would be so many conversations happening that are wildly uncomfortable for the kids themselves. I‘m honestly glad I could figure myself out with my phone at night instead of in conversation with other people. I just know, there would be so many memories keeping me up at night from the sheer cringe.

[@Sasu123456789x1]

​@@platedlizardExactly 💯

[@Homodemon]

The whole narrative about kids being completely sexless and pure creatures until they finally turn 18 is so plastic it just makes me laugh Is like something a Christian grandmother would believe but somehow they're being said by those same 15 year olds "Omg I'm way too young to be engaging with explicit material!!" Said the 15 year old. Naaah, bitch, I already know you hit "Yes" on the question "Are you above the age of 18?" On certain pages before, don't try to play dumb...

[@The_makeuptherapist]

“At least we have mediocre Black and Brown Queer books” is such a powerful idea that illustrates a larger point about existing as a person that is not part of the dominating group. Black and Brown and Queer and intersectional folx deserve being able to exist while mediocre! It has become very popular to laud the “Excellence” of high-achieving marginalized folx, and it is absolutely great for those people, good for them. But there’s a lot of us that are just regular, degular people and we deserve to succeed too. Maybe some of the Black/Brown/Queer books are unremarkable in writing quality, but so is half the NYT Bestseller list and those authors get to make a living from their work. Folx with marginalized identities should also get to be average/fine/mid and still be able to make it in the world and be celebrated by the people who enjoy what they do. And those of us readers that exist in the margins and enjoy seeing ourselves and loved ones reflected in that representation in art and media. It’s like ‘let us have this, damn!’

[@ZabivakaPirate69]

Absolutely, I totally agree with you! Full disclosure, I'm a white woman who grew up (and still lives) in the US south. I wasn't *suuuper* sheltered, but I definitely didn't have a lot of exposure to diversity in general growing up. Now as an adult I always get so excited when a piece of media has a diverse cast with meaningful representation. It's so much more engaging for me when media is full of people who's life stories are so different from my own. I love getting to learn about what other people's lives were like, and what you're talking about is exactly that! Seeing regular PoC and other kinds of "non-default" people in media is so important for a vast array of reasons. I'm neurodivergent and queer, so I can relate on some level to what it's like to see yourself accurately depicted in media. I can easily imagine how meaningful it must be when you see a character that you can identify so heavily with~ And I think that diversity in media benefits absolutely everyone! People who push back against diversity or "the woke agenda" are so bizarre to me. Like, how do you not get bored of TV shows and movies where 95% of the cast are cishet white people??? That just sounds so bland and uninteresting to me. It's a total tangent, but I just wanna gush over how much I love the Spider-Verse movies. It was soooo amazing to see iconic characters reimagined as more diverse characters. The dynamics get so much more complex and interesting when the characters in a story are good representations of our diverse world! I dunno if I really had a point here, I just wanted to gush because I loved your comment 💖

[@DarwinRoger893]

I think when a diverse author gets to be mid or mediocre, that's when we've won.

[@PoppyHapalopus]

Booktok would've had an aneurysm if they knew I was reading The Valley of Horses at age 11. Y'know, a book about a girl who has been abused and realizes that her abuse shouldn't define her and that sex can be a great thing even if you've been traumatized... Sometimes a kid actually needs to read that kind of stuff.

[@maxkordon]

Had a similar experience with berserk

[@IshtarNike]

I agree. I regularly read books just slightly "too old" for me. And I credit it with giving me a much better understanding of sex and relationships than I would have otherwise had. Overall I'd say it's a good thing.

[@koshetz]

I've read so much adult stuff while being a minor , literally binged all of Junji Ito works, Berserk, a lot of niche Japanese horrors i don't remember titles for it anymore. Between 13-18 there wasn't a single age appropriate fandom that interested me. And while i do not recommend it i also think that ability to explore stuff EVEN if it's not good was a very important thing to me as a teenager. To develop, to choose your tastes and learn about topics you don't want to ask your parents about. There's something to this freedom.

[@TheNurseBetty0]

I managed to get that book banned from my school when i was 17 by accident. I had read it before when i was much younger and loved it and found out the high school library had it, so I sat down in the isle to read the parts I liked (not even the sex scenes, it was the lion cub scenes). a male friend of mine asked what the book was about, and I explained the story a bit, and then, not thinking, went 'oh and in the last 1/3 of the book there's a descriptive scene on how to have sex and please a woman'. Next thing I know its the most requested book in the library, because my male friend went and told all his mates about it. eventually a parent found out, clutched their pearls, and got the entire series removed from the library shelves.

[@terranceorwhatever60]

I think the problem people have with these books isnt that they exist just that many of them have covers that can be seen as YA. Many ppl have said that they have seen these explicit books and up in the ya section but that is most likely the stores fault

[@blkloislane]

I read so many books a year, including books that feature romance, that have very little to nonexistent sexual content. The fact that these people just can't seem to find them at all makes me think they're too lazy to look for anything except for what tiktok tells them to read.

[@Sasu123456789x1]

Exactly, they aren't that hard to find

[@eldritchtourist]

This is one hundred percent it. The stubborn insistence on exclusively reading YA and New Adult books which have a higher rate of tropes and trends and a specific combination of plot beats is really self-sabotaging.

[@IshtarNike]

I think one of the other comments clarifies what's going on here. For the people complaining, "sexual content" is a huuuge umbrella term for literally anything even tangentially related to sex. So for example, a book with a gay couple in it would be "sexual content" even if the couple never have a sex scene.

[@blkloislane]

@@IshtarNike That's so cringe and sad.

[@DoveJS]

@@IshtarNike That's funny AF because by that logic a book with a straight couple should also count as "sexual content" simply because it's possible that could happen. Which retroactively transforms at least 85% of all books into ones with "sexual content" if these people weren't simply homophobic and ignorant.

[@nattmazzoni]

I wish more people actually criticized books based on how well written they are instead of how much sex is in them. Also, as an aroace, I really don't like when our existence is used as an excuse to police sex content. I genuinely don't care if books and movies have sex in them.

[@acecat2798]

THIS! I'm an aroace person moderately repulsed by the idea of having sex myself, but read spice all the time. And since I have found another aroace in the wild it's my duty to recommend "I Want to Be a Wall," a manga about an ace woman and a gay man in a lavender marriage. The woman is a fan of BL manga, and her relationship to the genre is explored. She talks about how BL has a lack of female characters in romantic roles, which removes the pressure and sense of wrongness that she feels about herself when she reads romances between different genders. It's still early in the series but it's pretty good so far, and also the only ace representation I've seen that wasn't a demeaning stereotype or a Very Special Episode.

[@jyjaeskz]

​@@acecat2798Ok I'm not the one this was meant for but as another aroace I NEED to read this

[@gale_mau]

Also, sometimes you don't WANT a ship you like to be canon, because while it's interesting to explore, it would clash horribly with the canon arcs and themes. A ship can just be something that tickles your brain and nothing more!

[@MsLPSFOREVER]

Literally. Half of the time I only want ships to go canon at the end of the show because then there's nothing else to explore or cause tension throughout the series.

[@baintreachas]

Yeah, even when someone writes a fix-it they’re usually not saying they actually would have preferred it that way, usually they’re writing it BECAUSE they love the original, not bc they want to overwrite it

[@acecat2798]

Sometimes I adore a ship and definitely don't want the creators of the media to make it because I don't think they'd do it as well as the fanfic authors, especially if that ship is gay.

[@DarwinRoger893]

​@@acecat2798that is such a specific and yet universal feeling, i understand that so much

[@Cathowl]

Not only would I not actually want a few of my ships to be canon, but some of my ships are mutually exclusive. "Oh but what about poly-" I have poly ships too, but AB, AC, and ABC are all different ships.

[@silamai912]

From my (admittedly very limited) experience with booktok all i get out of that community is - the kids are reading adult books and freaking out about sex and - the adults refuse to read anything beyond YA books

[@chiefpurrfect8389]

This feels depressingly accurate

[@hawkins347]

I would add that they refuse to engage with any book that contains content they'd potentially be made uncomfortable by and conflate the author writing about uncomfortable things with endorsing the uncomfortable things.

[@deadmanreading3152]

One booktuber I follow says she has more luck with thrillers than romance on booktok and I find that to be true. Yeah to give the Devil their due I appreciate the platform for making a lot of indie author's careers and making reading popular again but... yeesh.

[@pinixy]

from what i've seen, the adults refuse to read anything that doesn't have a ton of sex scenes lol

[@lesvianaura]

kids arent freaking out about sex, theyre freaking out about adults that are only recommending books with sex in it

[@funde19]

I believe someone on the Bechdel cast pointed out that Poor Things glossed over the most interesting concept it put forward. What does it really mean to realize that you are your own mother? That your body is hers?

[@Fixtheproblemwithgoodpolicy]

I wanted to make a film/tv show where whenever the character dies or has a baby it's them all over again.

[@olivialutz359]

This was a big part of Final Girls Studios video!

[@funde19]

I'll check it out!! Thank u for the rec ​@@olivialutz359

[@urnotl0r0s]

the steven universe lore goes crazy

[@natmorse-noland9133]

To me that is key to understanding the movie - it's about generational trauma and breaking the cycle of abuse. Bella inherits her mother's trauma quite literally, but doesn't realize that her mother's trauma is why she is the way she is. (Sound familiar?) But she is able to grow and explore and move past that generational trauma.

[@cornflakes-does-stuff]

I'm also someone who'se been in fandom spaces since my teens ( I'm nearing 30 now) and the notion that you can't just simply dislike something, it has to have a moral failing to justify your dislike and the poeple who enjoy that thing are also morally bankrupt is soo exhausting and it just seems to be never going away and only just getting worse over time with social justice jargon being more well known and the people who get a kick out of being fandom moral policers are becoming more and more vehement to the point where they are kind of scary ngl, I've seen a fair share of online harrassment over inqonsequentail fandom opinions in my years of being in online fandom :[

[@Vohalika]

Back in my day, you didn't like ships because the hair colors clashed or you preferred one trope over the other, and then you trashed the female characters involved, if any, in the rival ship's tumblr tags for being annyoing and useless. A simpler time, and somehow less furstrating than having to drop essays on your stance on imperialism and abuse every five minutes. (I just turned 30 and grew up in early 2000s anime fandom)

[@takoyaki3458]

Same, I’m in my early 30ies and have been a shipper in different fandoms since my teens. Policing in some fandoms has become simply unbearable. Twitter spaces especially. I’m an artist and it’s scary to post just whatever Fanart bc if somebody deems it inappropriate (for whatever reason, usually personal dislikes of ships) it’s all you can it buffet (with you being eaten).

[@kavtoM]

I miss when I could justify not liking a ship with just 'i'm not vibing with it, it doesn't make me feel things'and that was enough

[@Alex_Barbosa]

Yall can still do that. Just ignore these people. If you don't want to discuss your ships then don't.

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

My take on spice is that people are consuming bad spice and are burning their taste buds to ash.

[@robertborland5083]

I hope the Tumblr elders educate the young folk on TikTok about the citrus system.

[@coolpixiekay]

And whose fault is that? Not the consumers. Sex education in America has historically been horrendous. Ofc most spicy content out is horrible and makes people not wanna consume it.

[@anonymous-zs9rn]

Right? Ao3 has made my standards rise so much, most spicy published novels seem to me at least subpar, if not utterly horrendous

[@flowerheit4512]

ive seen a lot of this sentiment and like, while i think its fine to recommend stuff you think is better, it feels somewhat like being angry at people for eating kraft singles instead of aged cheddar. who are they hurting by liking the plastic cheese product? and if the answer is "themselves" is it really your job to be their mom?

[@PauLtus_B]

@coolpixiekay I agree. I feel a lot of people develop an unhealthy idea of sex because the only way they get access to it is in secret instead of having some healthy conversations about it. You can try to keep sexuality away from young people but they're gonna find it somehow, and considering how easily accessible porn is now that will be it and that will be the "educator".

[@azurities]

I work as a children's librarian and one of my personal rules is that I will never tell a kid that they *can't* read a certain book-- what I will do is two things: 1) I make sure that they (and potentially the adult with them depending on their age) understand what kind of material is in it and 2) see if I can find something that has similar appeal but is aimed at their age group-- this happens a lot with kids who say they want to read Stephen King, when most of the time they actually want to read a great horror book that's more aimed for them. But if they hear all of that and they say yeah, I still am 100% in for reading Stephen King (or Twilight or whatever), then I 100% of the time will say go for it. Because if this kid is actively seeking out these mature themes then I would always rather that they encounter it safely in a book first (just like you're talking about with Icebreaker!) rather than be on some shady corner of the internet or in real life.

[@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396]

Well, the difference between the book It and movie is the title.

[@hankboog462]

I like this approach. It allows kids to explore while still assuring they know what they're getting into

[@DarwinRoger893]

Yeah and also as a librarian, parenting a child is not your responsibility. While it's important for people like you to educate children, the main responsibility should be put on the parents.

[@kileylindley4351]

Im a librarian and I had to tell a 11 year old no to that haunting adeline

[@kezia8027]

I can't believe I didn't realize that I was being so close minded.. I've always considered myself very sex positive, but still felt there needed to be a separation between "adult" books and books for "non adults" mostly around things considered "adult topics" like sex or drugs/alcohol and honestly, you really made me realize - if the book is promoting healthy behaviours, and doesn't admonish them or encourage unhealthy/dangerous/toxic behaviours/attitudes then YEAH what IS the problem? They get to see a healthy dynamic played out in front of them in a safe environment where they can explore how they feel about a topic without having to be IN THE MOMENT when they try to figure out how they feel. I'm kinda surprised how simple it is now looking back, but that societal purity culture really does dig itself into the deepest recesses of your psyche.

[@Sasu123456789x1]

This comment is exactly how I feel 👏🏾

[@upsetstudios1819]

I'm really glad you had this realization, I hope more people can come to the same conclusion!

[@Sunnygrrl99]

This is a good start but you can still go further - fiction can also be a great tool to satisfy the urge to do something transgressive, without ACTUALLY doing it. The depiction does not need to be framed in a healthy way. I can read a book about someone doing evil things, and not enjoy it per se - but feel like I had a sampling of something in a safe way where I don't need to do it IRL. Same way I can enjoy reading a book about mountain climbing but never, ever want to climb a mountain lol. However much I like the exciting description in the book, I'm never gonna go buy rope and a harness and head for the hills.

[@baefarm]

Me as well! Someone else in the comments talked about how people who are for age ratings and censorship on booktok are people who have been emotionally removed from their adolescence too long. I’m surprised to realize that applied to me here. I think it’s interesting that we can all admit that as teenage children we read/watched/did inappropriate things and had sexual desires we were navigating through, yet as an adult it feels wrong to think and speak about children doing these same things now. It’s a part of growing up and gives children healthy outlets to explore themselves on their own, NOT through exploitive experiences that bring trauma and heartbreak, is something we’d never deny for our past teenage selves. So why would we want to deny that for kids now just because it feels weird to think about? In hindsight was reading the Crank series and Harry Styles smutty fan fiction actually damaging to my psyche? 😂 No it’s actually hilarious to me now and probably the purest way I could have explored those sides of myself.

[@Tofu_va_Bien]

I loved Poor Things. Having been groomed into SW at the ripe old age of 18 I felt a strong connection to the story and main character. It was like an exaggerated version of my life story made for the silver screen.

[@andre-cmyk]

i have a history of s. coercion in the ages of 17-18 and i saw myself soooo much in her. loved it as well

[@samaraisnt]

so glad to hear y’alls perspective ♥️♥️♥️

[@NateDHWT2023]

A big thing about the whole media literacy thing I've noticed is the beginning and end of the conversation online is "you have bad media literacy" with no attempts to actually educate. Which makes it harder to actually educated because now 'bad media literacy' is a buzzphrase people just ignore or dismiss.

[@liana8176]

Part of the problem is that media literacy is not something that can be taught in one KZbin video. It's a skill that takes years to develop. That's why it's so concerning to me to see these shallow critiques coming from people in their 20s, they should have learned how to develop a nuanced analysis while they were in school, but they missed it somehow.

[@LandOLakesYellowAmerican]

People are taught these things in school, the problem is not enough reinforcement or engagement at home. The idea that “school” is solely responsible for children learning to think critically is a genuine problem in our society.

[@NateDHWT2023]

@nezahuatez this is true but also the point I was making is that the current discussion online around it usually contains little attempts to educate and is focused primarily on using it to dunk on bad takes. Hell I've seen bad takes accused of being bad media literacy when they just flat out aren't- suggesting bad media literacy on part of the people who are using it to dunk. We can very least attempt to educate and explain media literacy a bit when we see these bad takes.

[@rat-gang-]

most of these conversations aren't happening in youtube comment sections where you can actually hold a civilised conversation, though. nobody on instagram or twitter or whatever is actually going to _listen_ to your in-depth analysis on what aspects of media literacy and critical thinking they need to work on - they're gonna call you a slur and move on lmao.

[@RhythmsCompany.2]

It's a thing that intrigues me because it's not something you learn overnight. I'm very driven to reading and analyzing books, but I've found myself REJECTING archetypes, characters based on such archetypes or analysis that relies on archetypes... I was wondering whether it was just discomfort because I'm not well versed in such subject OR because I was lacking something to unpack all the nuance that they supposedly bring. Does anyone have any book recommendations on media literacy for adults? Thank you, anyway.

[@andersonneil2293]

I'm listening to the section on "Icebreaker" i think its also important to mention that kids often put books they are not ready for down. So many of the conversations we have about these books talk about children like they have no agency and no ability to determine if something is good for them themselves. Children have agency too, and we should take that into consideration

[@queerplatypus9357]

Exactly! Example from personal experience here: I was reading fanfiction from about age 13, and I remember often clicking off explicit stories back then cuz I wasnt yet interested in seeing characters in those types of situations.

[@lavenderhuman]

This kinda happened to me when I was about 10 and my aunt put on mean girls. I had heard of the movie and knew the themes in it and so I just didn’t want to watch, felt uncomfortable seeing something I knew I felt too young for. Kids aren’t dumb and if they’re not enjoying something, they’ll usually just not consume it

[@acecat2798]

When I was a kid and there was nothing on tv, I watched a bit of a nature documentary. My older brother came in while they were showing animals mating and said this was probably too mature for me, but left before I turned it off. I assumed that the scene would be brief and then we could move on to the baby animals, but they kept cutting back to it (in hindsight it was almost comical how many times they did that, it makes me question what the doc team was thinking). I got uncomfortable and turned it off on my own.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

​@@acecat2798that's a funny story

[@harriyanna]

omg, the shipping section, this is reminding me of how people were being so nasty about crack shipping (ya know, shipping to characters that never meet in canon bc they are from different things) and were trying to find all the reasons in the world for why we shouldn't crack ship. um, we have real problems to deal with!!!!! and crack shipping isn't one of them!

[@kigut7443]

plus crack shipping is just Fun. its like a great exercise in adapting aspects of storytelling into something new, which amounts to more art creation. AUs and stuff are like fiction-fiction and thats super cool to see people coming up with interesting new takes on something that already exists. adaptation is just as exciting and fun as the mainline cannon. if anything i find it weird when people cling to the cannon like gospel and refuse to use their brain in any creative way just because the cannon is infallible and sacred to them or smth

[@kneau]

Your perspectives are your own.

[@CrazyGamer1541]

@@kneauwell, duh

[@MegaCrazyhand]

People on Booktok looked at the problems and damages caused by the Hayes Code and the Comics Code and decided they wanted a Book Code, so I figured based on those two codes I'd make a sample code that they can use: 1. Any sexual activities or desires beyond handholding shall place the book at a rating of PG-13. Any explicit sexual scene makes the book rated M. 2. The presence of any sexuality that isn't rigidly straight must get a big sticker on the book that says "this book is gay." 3. The back of every book must list every "trope" with the appropriate definition taken from TvTropes. 4. If bad things happen it must be rated at least PG-13. 5. All shipping is now banned as it is evil. 6. If drugs appear (or an equivalent to drugs appear) you must raise the rating to PG-13. 7. All fantasy books must have a sticker declaring if the magic is "hard magic" or "soft magic." 8. Most importantly all bad guys must be appropriately punished in the end with a lack of hand holding. With these 8 simple suggestions, we can save publishing! /s.

[@davriecaro3036]

Sorry question, I do not want to mis understand or misinterpret what you are trying to say with your comment.😅 So may I ask what is the purpose of you listing down this proposed code😅

[@Temudhun]

1. It better be straight handholding, or else you get the gay sticker.

[@86fifty]

@@davriecaro3036 The bit at the very end "/s" means "this whole comment has been sarcasm." The OP is comparing this situation to the Hayes Code and the Comics Code, which are really interesting to read about on Wikipedia if you have never heard of them before!

[@86fifty]

Don't forget, since no one under 18 can vote, that means all political discussions, including depictions of rebellions against any sort of authority or government, gives a book an automatic M! (also sarcasm)

[@stephennootens916]

While I am guessing this is sarcastic when you think about it there is a lot of problems with the rating system. If you look at American movies you see the constraints put on movie makers. PG-13 is were most.studios for many of there movies and you can never go passed an R to and NC-17. So something Rage by Richard Bachman about school shooter would never be made or Robert A Heinlein's classic Stranger in a Strangeland that promotes free love. You can find untold number of books that could never pass the test to get a green light from studio who chase that happy safe zone. Happy endings? There goes the notorious Philip K Dick whose books are all depressing and or confusing. Books are one of the free spots have to tell tales.

[@Oryx7000]

I think a lot about how there seems to be this upsetting conflation of kids watching or reading things that are “inappropriate” and it being a tool for abuse. I definitely read and watched things that were too mature for my age but it was under my own steam and not at anyone’s urging. Something just being in a library isn’t inherently a tool for abuse. I’m just tired of hearing all of the rhetoric conservatives throw around while banning books. Great video!

[@samaraisnt]

great point. there’s a difference between self-discovery and abuse. Abuse requires adult coercion. It doesn’t look like a curious adolescent exploring their interests in the safe space of a book…which they can close. 😪

[@devonmunn5728]

When it comes down to it, these conservative parents want their kids to view the world how THEY (the parents) view it. They don't want to have their kids grow up and call them out on their bullshit, shattering the illusion of the perfect nuclear family

[@Nyzackon]

+

[@GiulianaBruna]

We need more representation of sex in media, in honests and realistic depictions, because we know what happpens when people only see sexual and erotic situations in porn. It's bad when your mind thinks sex should look like porn or a music video.

[@Sasu123456789x1]

True 👍🏽

[@stephennootens916]

So you want more fumbling about and awkwardness in your sex scenes possible even have someone fart or and fall asleep during sex.

[@asterismos5451]

Yeah books have been great about making reciprocal sex that focuses on enjoyable times for women but it's a lot of "guy with the most giant, muscular body and biggest dick ever gives you the best sex of your life every time" and I get it's a fantasy but I dunno I find it fun to have sweet miscommunications or interactions in the bedroom thanks to not being able to get it up or whatever, like the realism of that and the character moments you can build from that are just great. (Shoutout to the cut song from the Bonnie and Clyde musical which is about this and it works great.)

[@Waspinmymind]

That’s what education is for we need better sex Ed and moralizing bad erotica will never solve that problem.

[@maureenmn288]

I feel like I'm watching different media than everyone else, because there is sex on tv, streaming, music, ans books (spicy novels are as popular as ever and in high demand). It's only in movies that sex has disappeared imo.

[@taylorparis7228]

"If your ship has already won the shipping wars canonically, do you really need to be concerned what the shippers on the losing team are thinking?" That is so real. I love that

[@EzaleaGraves]

I absolutely hate seeing all of the arguments worrying about what kids are reading because it always just comes off as lazy to me. If you're really that concerned that your child is going to read something you don't like, then you just need to talk to them about it. Keep an open dialogue with your kid about what they're reading, and read those same books. Listen to the audiobooks. Look up chapter summaries. Literally anything. It is so easy nowadays to figure out what is actually in a book, so figure that out and then talk to your child. Don't make it everyone else's problem because you want your kid to be sheltered

[@PhotonBeast]

Yeah; heck, taking the time to sit down and, at the least, talking with the munchkin about the book (as in, discussing what they read, analyzing it together, disucssing how it made them feel, etc) if not also reading it with them, is great bonding, emotion building, and intellect building.

[@duvetboa]

Many American parents would rather die than to have an honest and respectful conversation with their child. Many are quite literally incapable of it, they don't see their children as people but as dolls they can project onto.

[@samaraisnt]

girl, you think they talk to them, OPENLY? There’s a reason their kids all become parents at age 15.

[@EzaleaGraves]

@@samaraisnt That's what I mean though. Bad parents making it everyone else's problem that they're bad parents. "Oh maybe they don't have time to talk to their kids" Well they seem to have time to campaign against books that don't exist. Maybe channel that energy elsewhere

[@phenomenal-flop]

It screams Moms for Liberty.

[@itsjusteddie7384]

I work in children’s nonfiction publishing. In wake of book banning discourse, censoring, and the “what content is age appropriate” debates I’m already seeing the trickle down you talk about. It has been brought to our publishing group’s attention multiple times, that there are people wanting to “remove sexual content from children’s books”it sounds like an obvious no brainer. But in practice what that looks like is removing any content that talks about reproduction. For example a book on the life cycle of animals would be banned if you use the word “mate”. Like discussing how birds are bright colors to “attract mates” would be banned for sexual content. Something that is completely normal in educational non fiction and children are naturally curious about: why birds are bright colors. A book about chickens laying eggs, would be classified as sexual content. Dogs have puppies? Nah that’s sexual content, can’t have that around. Plus Any type of queer representation so children may see a family that looks like theirs would also be “sexual content”, but that’s a whole other issue. “Removing sexual content” is just an umbrella term for removing content people (conservatives) don’t like. We were told by many librarians this is entirely possible to happen in some school districts. I’m not involved in fiction or YA publishing at all, but I imagine they’re all going through the same BS we are.

[@wildgr33n]

i always found my fav books at the local library not the school one, and that was 20 years ago lol

[@eldritchtourist]

There are also literal early sex ed books for kids that are extremely, extremely gentle in their delivery but depict nudity and reproduction, explain what to expect from puberty so it isn't scary and shocking when it actually happens to you, and talk about consent and things and personal boundaries. I read a few as a little kid myself.

[@haggisa]

@@eldritchtouristSilly goose, conservatives don’t WANT kids to learn about consent. That would make them harder to control, manipulate and abuse.

[@PanEtRosa]

funny enough, Last Week Tonight just yesterday posted a segment about censorship attacks on libraries. and all I could think about while watching this video was, "this reaction to sex in media is one million percent the point of and watershed from those conservative attacks." defamiliarize people with normal aspects of life so everything about them seems sinister, and young people won't have the tools to distinguish real harm from imaginary.

[@julietfischer5056]

"I don't want to answer my children's questions about topics that make me itchy." That's the real reason. They aren't comfortable with X, and think that removing any mention of it will prevent their children asking. Then they watch the news or talk among themselves in the presence of the kids and are surprised when those kids have questions. I remember a bit in _Mad_ magazine, way back when, that basically said that parents preferred their children watch _Hawaii Five-0_ than _Maude_ because they'd rather answer questions about mass murder than about s-e-x.

[@temporal_lacunae]

In terms of none of the men seeing her as a child, I actually think this is a good way to show how men who pursue teens regard young women. All the clues that Bella is not mature enough to conduct a relationship are there, but because the girl looks old enough and is pretty, these types of men neglect to even look for those clues. They choose to interpret the immaturity as whimsy and impulsiveness, rather than recognising that whimsy and impulsiveness are indicators of a child's mind. That was my interpretation of that nuance anyway 🤷‍♀

[@perrisavallon5170]

Ooh, that's a really good point (and painfully accurate)

[@nervousbreakdown711]

The thing that really gets me about the Zutara/Kataang fighting is Katara is such a cool character! Whatever guy she ends up with is the least interesting thing about her! For a girl of color to be unapologetically emotional and feminine in THE not-like-other-girls time of 2003? Radical. She was a character ahead of her time. And it pisses me off so much that I can’t even enjoy fanart or analysis of her character without the comment section fist-fighting over who she should end up with. Full disclosure, I’m a Kataang shipper, but ship whatever you want to ship. I’m too old to care.

[@125loopy]

I was a little bit of a Zutara shipper in my younger days. I used to think love was supposed to heal. I liked the aspect of Zuko becoming better *for* Katara instead of on his own. Then my frontal lobe started developing and I realized I hate it when love is hard. I met my husband and everything was easy. Katara and Aang didn't need to heal each other. There was no love/ hate relationship. No enemies to lovers. I like easy love stories nowadays :)

[@nervousbreakdown711]

@@125loopy and I admit, if Aang and Katara were always going to be endgame, they should have made either Katara or Aang 13. You can kinda get away with it in the show because Aang’s real age is nebulous - he’s 12 but also 112 - but in real life, an eighth grader with a sixth grader would raise a million eyebrows

[@xoPotatoTreexo]

​@nervousbreakdown711 I tried to explain this to my friend when we were talking about the live-action show and I don't think I did it very well, but seeing how young Aang looked next to Katara made me realise how iffy it was. If he was the older of the pair, I think it would have been clearer to see. (For the record, I think as a younger watcher I assumed they didn't really get together until they were both older, and they had time to grow into who they were without the life-and-death stakes hanging over their heads)

[@Aven_lover]

It's a bit sus because Zuko is the child of colonisers but yeah it's fine i guess

[@kweenz600]

I was a devout Zutara shipper once upon a time and was definitely a preteen when ATLA was airing. There was a tweet about being a 14yo girl choosing between the 16yo boy with mommy issues and a cool scar and the 12yo who’s like a little brother that really sealed it for me 😅 like I recognize the Kataang is end game but let my preteen self dream lol

[@abigaillancaster382]

I grew up in a home with extremely strict rules on what I could and could not read, and I still managed to get around it because of various loopholes (mostly through fanfic) I think people forget that young teenagers are horny and curious about relationships and sex, and the best way to learn about those things (besides actual sex Ed) is through well written spicy novels. Some things are best learned through example, and good relationships are one of those things- and it’s a privilege to have people in your life that you can interact with that have healthy relationships. That’s infinitely more true when it comes to queer relationships.

[@GetGoodGirl1561]

My mom had an absolutely legendary collection of romance novels that lived in her bedroom and were strewn around the house at various times throughout my childhood. Mostly “bodice rippers” and some even more spicy. I “matured” early and was interested in spicy things early on too. As I hit early teens, my mom let me read her books, but she always emphasized that those weren’t realistic depictions of sex and sexuality. But she never shamed me for wanting to read them. My parents didn’t shame me for wanting to watch 🌽 but they told me it was for people who were older. That’s the kind of healthy relationship with spice that so many (especially young) people are missing and it’s sad. It helped me form a relationship with spicy fiction where I could read or watch things and understand that arousal from those things doesn’t mean they’re always fun or good in real life and it doesn’t make me a bad person (though yanno, for some people they can be and that’s okay too long as everyone consents lol).

[@princessjellyfish98]

51:37 honestly, I feel like people whose media consumption and politics are 100% intertwined are an even bigger red flag. like, nobody has to enjoy any piece of media, especially one that could be triggering. but if you refuse to engage with anything that isn't completely safe or comfortable, that says a lot more about people than I think they realize. are you that swayed by the media you consume that one bad character in a book will turn you bad too? are you still learning morals from books and movies like you did as a child? do you not know the difference between fiction and real life? realizing a story would be "problematic" if it were real and not fiction is like, bottom of the barrel media literacy. if you're still stuck on that level and expecting others to come down to meet you, you're purposefully closing yourself off from art for the sake of what, some imagined social capital? embarrassing

[@thrawncaedusl717]

This! Good art starts a conversation and asks (somewhat leading) questions. If you are afraid of questions, that’s on you. That said, I have dropped a book series (Dresden Files) because how abrasive the main character acted was not justified by the stories and themes being developed (at least, not quickly enough; I have a friend that swears that by the tenth book it’s all worth it…). So I get “not for me” as a valid explanation for individual works (heck, I can’t rewatch Everything Everywhere All at Once because I hate how they handle the daughter’s depression and the whole movie just makes me feel crappy). So to some extent it is also true that there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that some things don’t work for you (as long as you don’t then try to block others from accessing them). But, yes, I do respect someone more if they have read and engaged with art made from perspectives they completely disagree with.

[@Sasu123456789x1]

This, I definitely agree with

[@Zombina638]

Nopez

[@plastiqbeach7487]

i mean yes and no, major styles of literary criticism include feminist and marxist lenses. i think its ok to view most media through a political lens if you judge the work based on theme rather than content

[@princessjellyfish98]

@@plastiqbeach7487 I understand what you mean but it's not about the critical lens people are viewing a text through. It's that they apply a marker of morality on themselves and other viewers based on the themes of a text through that lens. They legit think other people are "bad people" because of the stuff they watch or read, and they intentionally design their public facing media consumption to make themselves look morally righteous. It's ridiculous but people are legit doing it, that's the part I think is weird

[@TylaStark]

I really appreciate that you pointed out that when kids read stuff thats too explicit, it doesnt click. Goes over their head. That's such an important point that people often miss. I was playing GTA 3 in elementary school. Doesnt mean I understood gang violence or what drugs did. I just like driving around and going pew pew. It's truly not the end of the world when kids are exposed to adult things, especially when they have adults around that they can talk about those things with. Adults who want books banned look like such clowns because it says to me that they dont actually want to do the work of being a parent. I feel so bad for their kids.

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

0:25 As someone who watched The Twilight Saga movies from 9-13 years old...I simply had a mom who would ensure I never watched anything graphic (whether it be s*xual or scary) whenever I watched something horror or horror-adjacent with her (our closeness led to me always wanting to join her for movies, near regardless of genre) by having me promise to close my eyes whenever she told me to. It's not that hard. 😎👏 True story: I literally had my eyes closed throughout the entire duration of Bella's birth when we saw BD1, so I just sat there in the theater listening to her screams and the Cullens' panic wondering wtf was going on. 😅

[@krixkhaos]

Listen, I'm an adult and I still can't watch that scene. Though that may have something to do with my aversion to pregnancy and childbirth in general lol.

[@animeotaku307]

Your example with Icebreakers shows how much we end up losing when we hyper focus on sex. That was a point I didn’t consider before! Also, as an ace myself, while I would like to see more romance that isn’t tied to physical intimacy (the manga “She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat” is near and dear to my heart mostly for that reason), I don’t mind reading sex scenes? At least, I’ve gotten better about reading sex scenes when a woman is involved now that I’m having an easier time not so closely associating with the character that I end up imagining myself in her place and squicking myself out. Weirdly, reading Omegaverse mlm fics and smut involving trans male characters really helped in that regard. One reason why I’m against banning or limiting material like that.

[@blkloislane]

I am also ace and enjoy reading (and sometimes writing) sex scenes. For me it's about the emotions, not necessarily the activity.

[@ohlookshinee]

omg i watched the drama of "she loves to cook and she loves to eat" recently it was so sweet and cute!!

[@panikiczcock2891]

​@@ohlookshineeit's such a sweet drama ❤

[@CureSmileful]

I get the association issue

[@PhotonBeast]

Agreed on romance not tied to physical intimacy. Both from the angle of broadening the idea that sex is not the same thing as romance and all the baggage that has built up on that; that an actual healthy romance is more than just sexual desire. And also from the angle that not everyone even is interested in that - asexual individuals have varying degrees of interest in sex; framing romance as requiring sexual desire leaves them struggling to figure out something that will never apply to them. JaidenAnimation's video on her own discovery of that is a great example.

[@rogue-taxidermy_griffin]

Edited for wording. I think part of the increase of media illiteracy (at least online) is a backlash from against "explainer"/analysis and review videos and articles, and the culture surrounding them. I (24) remember growing up with Game Theory, CinemaSins, etc. and I think some people are worn out by seeing others dissecting the things they enjoy. I think it makes people feel bad (read: unintelligent, unobservant, isolated) for liking something (especially when the videos and articles are titled "WHY [MEDIA] IS [NEGATIVE ADJECTIVE]"). Another expression way I've seen this is the backlash against Rotten Tomatoes and video game journalists, etc. I think people believe there is pressure to critically analyze everything all the time - and that if you don't, you're dumb. I wish more people realized that you can 1. Watch things uncritically, 2. Criticize the things you like, 3. Enjoy things that are (seemingly) universally panned. But, yknow, people! Social pressure is strong.

[@jesi89]

I feel like the primary reason I love video essays on pop culture and media is because I miss having those conversations with my friends in university and now I'm 35 and don't get to have those convos anymore.

[@rogue-taxidermy_griffin]

​@@jesi89 I never had any of those convos until after college (my close friends were engineers), so the video essays were a nice placeholder until I found more of my people!

[@GothVampiress]

my favorite quote regarding ''spicy''' (a term i wholly dislike) content in books is a Clive Barker one that predates the discourse; paraphrased, it's essentially this: if your characters live in your head with you while you write, why wouldn't you think about how they have sex? and also being a queer author with experience in sw, i can relate to his position more than any other. it's just a part of life, the same as thinking about how they take their coffee. sometimes the story calls for it, but sometimes it doesn't.

[@pendragon_cave1405]

I wonder how much of the younger generation's views on sex, etc have been shaped by growing up in an online environment that made those topics taboo because of monetization, which then became a self reinforcing cycle

[@vaxania]

Oh my god oh my god thank you for saying something about the whole 'porn addiction' thing. It is one of my most hated things about book spaces online that people throw that term around so frivolously!! I have a lot of contradictory and complicated thoughts about this entire topic but it has always upset me. It feels so lazy, so completely insulting, so reductive.

[@ashevanlippert1207]

This is one of the best takes I’ve seen on the topic of sex in media. Thank youuu I’m ace, but I’m also a litfic writer whose work explores sexual themes, often very explicitly - and I’ve been endlessly frustrated by how the pendulum has swung so dramatically from one extreme to the other. During the peak GoT sexposition era of tv I felt so alienated by what felt like compulsory sex scenes in everything. Like there was no diversity in characters’ relationships with their sexuality, and if there was ever a character who was less sexually extroverted than average they were portrayed as an uptight prude. For me it was never about not wanting to see sex, nudity, promiscuity, etc, I just wanted to see a variety of ways characters could approach that part of their life. And also for sex to be more realistically portrayed, less catered to the male gaze, and for actors to not feel pressured into performances that made them uncomfortable. So I was pretty happy when we started having a conversation about unnecessary/obligatory sex scenes! But damn I did not expect so many people’s conclusion to be that ALL sex scenes are unnecessary. Like y’all. Sexuality is a big part of the broad human experience. It’s related to so many of our greatest passions and fears. It’s tied up with power, vulnerability, self image, identity, gender, romance, desire, politics, connection, attachment, religion, taboos, coming of age, how we inhabit our bodies… you don’t want good art made about these topics?? You think that’s all boring not “plot relevant”???? Pls b for real

[@ashevanlippert1207]

Just a random addendum to this: today I was banned from a subreddit for mentioning The Song of Achilles. Like literally just *mentioning* it. Because it’s “sexual content involving minors.” Do we… not… have any awareness… whatsoever… that this is LITERALLY the puritanical philosophy underlying the book bans across the USA. The fact that Song of Achilles is a very well regarded, not at all salacious, book about queer love REALLY underlines the parallels here. You liked this lyrical historical novel about fate, the pursuit of glory, war, and tragic love?? Groomer alert 🚨 WE HAVE A GROOMER IN OUR MIDST 🚨 Sorry, this just happened to me an hour ago so I’m still malding. I may never de-mald.

[@dublancdedinde]

​​@@ashevanlippert1207 honestly, you already lost when you tried to have an elaborate debate on reddit, of all places😭

[@noheterotho179]

Yes!! I honestly didn't know other aces had this experience, but it was so exhausting to go from "Yeah, it'd be cool if sex wasn't treated as THE human experience in media" to "Sex shouldn't be portrayed in media" like huh?? Over-saturation of sexual content is bad but censoring/heavily moralizing it is worse?? Even worse when I see other asexual people leading the charge not realizing that a lot of asexuals actually produce content about sex! Sex repulsed aces are entirely valid but people seem to forget that it is a spectrum, some of us are interested in depicting/consuming media about sex! It's not just Allos!

[@queerplatypus9357]

Fellow Ace here, finding out that some of my most liked explicit fics were written by other aces was pretty validating! To me, it's really interesting how sex scenes are used to flesh out a dynamic - how does a particular character act in intimate situations (what that says about their characterization/traits), is it used to illustrate attitudes typical of the time/setting/-verse, bodily exploration, coming to terms with identity, etc. The most boring sex scenes are those that are used as a shortcut to depict a relationship progressing/deepening.

[@ashevanlippert1207]

@@queerplatypus9357 Yeah, it’s annoying to me when it feels just like a box being checked, like dw guys they fuck 👍👍 That’s honestly why I usually like *more* detailed sex scenes, bc there’s ample room for characterization. Like I think characters’ sexual dynamics can be really interesting and be a great place for deep character development. My favorite ones are very intimate and vulnerable, but there’s lots of different tonal registers you can hit that reveal personality, motivation, hidden depth, etc. And yeah lol, my sex scenes are very detailed-and like I feel like I’m pretty good at writing them because it’s intuitive for me not to make it too pornified; like I need other dynamics at play other than mechanical ones to personally find it hot, and I think most allosexuals prefer that too at the end of the day. Especially for people who like reading erotic content, I think the tension, the subtle power negotiation, the emotions and formative wounds and everything that drives the desire and need is much more important than the play by play (or, at least, the play by play can easily get super boring and generic without the other stuff) At first I was surprised how many other aces were big on writing/reading spicy lit/fanfic… but teebs it’s not really that surprising at all is it 😂

[@webheadwonder9597]

So many spicy books in my school library - many of which would not look it from the cover. The thing is that a book is instantly closeable. Instantly skipable. As a kid, I had full control over what I read, and if it made me uncomfortable - I could put it down and examine why

[@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396]

To me, books were a way of me understanding different ways of thinking…and also knowing what was satire.

[@lilhonor5425]

During the 🌽booktok section I felt like standing up and cheering. You hit on everything I thought of the other day when I say a comment section promoting age restriction on books

[@teamarie123]

I love that you brought up the ace people who would like to see more ace relationships explored. I don’t have a problem with other people liking spicy books because I just know it’s not my thing, but I do enjoy a good YA romance every once in a while.

[@sarahbermudez5005]

I’ve been waiting for a more nuanced take on booktok smut like yours thank you. I understand not wanting to be bombared with spicy books but like you said I think it’s only detrimental if we set restrictions on sexual content. Both can exist at once: You can be uncomfortable at the idea of minors reading sexual content but also understand if teens are gonna want to read it they will find it.

[@Sasu123456789x1]

Yesss, this 👏🏾

[@thrawncaedusl717]

Poor Things is now my go to example of a movie where I disagree with the premise but am still glad it got made. I do side with those that say that it overly sanitized sex taking out any possible messiness or negativity cause by it. That said, as a portrayal of a world where sex could be completely free without any lasting psychological effects, it was a really interesting and well done hypothetical. And it doesn’t hurt that the non-sexual parts about human nature were fantastic (Alexandria and how it affected Bella is one of the most chilling and gut wrenching moments in cinema; imagine a world where we did not simply get used to suffering).

[@yarnpenguin]

I'm just very of the opinion that people who turn shipping and their media habits into activism and weaponise the language of social justice against others are, y'know... not doing actual activism. They're not helping anything in real life, and instead they're treating fictional characters better than they treat real people. The choices I've made about not buying things created by bigots isn't activism; it's about my *feelings*. Feelings aren't activism. I don't interact with the things that make me feel uncomfortable; I block and move on, and it doesn't make me morally superior to other people. Shrug.

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

"they're treating fictional characters better than they treat real people" THANK YOU!! Exactly the words I have been looking for.

[@yarnpenguin]

@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 You're welcome! I'm ashamed it didn't click for me until early this year when I was getting more heavily involved in the Baldur's Gate III fandom, and saw the way people were willing to harass other people who were playing a video game--that is *a toy*--for *grown ups*!--wrong re: their fictional vampire boyfriend. Astarion (and the woobification of him) has led to people being absolutely wretched beasts to other people because of a fake person made of 1s and 0s, who does not exist, has never existed, will never exist, and cannot be harmed by someone's decisions that were deliberately programmed into a video game. It was able to make everything I've seen since the heyday of Voltron: Legendary Defender make... a lot more sense. I've been involved in fandom since the late 90s, but because of the centralisation of the internet I'm seeing the viciousness magnified in a way that I never did before. Combine that with people looping their morality into their media matters and, well... you get people harassing abuse victims and telling them they deserved all to protect the honour of people who do *not* exist. Sorry, this reply got away from me a little. Hope you're having a good Saturday!

[@edenswhateverchannel]

Nah fr, and what's worse is they refuse to think critically about the shit they consume to the point they will actually go an sexualize a real 16 year just because he's wearing a motorcycle mask and tell SA victims that they wished they were SAed. Like, tf? You actually defend the actions of fictional people and carey that over to real life people. Stop.

[@hankboog462]

I think what happens sometimes is people see boycotts being *actual* activism but don't have a good understanding of them so assume just them not buying something has similar power to a real, organized boycott

[@librasun-scorpiorising]

Extremely based take

[@phi-blue]

I've spent so long being empathetic to the kids on these topics because I'm a zillenial who grew up in fandom spaces for kids shows where I had adults showing me smut I was nawwwt comfortable with, and I fully support kids enforcing their boundaries. But when those kids grow up and are still trying to enforce those boundaries against other adults having or enjoying sex in adult spaces... it makes it a lot harder to be so staunchly defensive :/ I really think that an internet that makes fandom space for kids/adults one and the same has made so many of these discussions more toxic than they need to be

[@TheSandurz20]

I dont have a problem with booktok smut in a vacuum, i have a problem with people suggesting horribly written smut.

[@stephennootens916]

From what I have heard it is not only bad but they are not fun. Classic good old fashion smut was all about the fun. Fanny Hill is an amazing classic smut tale about a young women and sexual adventures.

[@mikeymullins5305]

People have different tastes.

[@SpoopySquid]

Professionals have standards

[@kweenz600]

I have gotten recommendation for some hot garbage smut before. Ones where it’s clear that the author spent most of the time on the sex scenes and about an hour on the plot. Like, I have no clue how we got here but everyone is naked

[@goober479]

Thank you 👏 I have fond memories of trawling Goodreads romance lists trying to find highly rated books that didn’t have atrocious writing and abusive love interests. I understand that it’s not the point of this video but I really think we need to discuss the romanticisation of DA and SA in way too many popular smut books but I recognise it’s controversial.

[@eggggsbenedict]

My two cents on the whole booktok smut debacle as an asexual someone who personally doesn’t hate romance, but can definitely do without it: I don’t care about people reading and writing smutty books, or marketing stuff as such. I just won’t read those books. No censorship required. Explicit scenes in non-romance books are fine, but what I do have an issue with is when the hype around a book presents it as something it isn’t. When I go in expecting political intrigue and well thought out world building and characters w a romance subplot based on the information I’m given, I don’t want to open the book to find what amounts to poorly developed smutty fanfiction with the labels scratched off. Too many books feel like they are masquerading as more serious thematically or plot driven SFF when they really just want to be fun smutty romance books w a fantasy backdrop. There’s nothing wrong with either genre or tone, and it’s not impossible for someone to do both in one story, but they have different audiences. This is just a marketing issue at the end of the day though. And again if I am not the target audience I can just stop reading. No censorship required. As a writer I’m much more personally annoyed with the fact that books heavily featuring romance are too easily given a pass for amateur quality. I think it’s a marker for the disrespect society as a whole has for the genre. A lot of romance books (or books with major romance subplots) that are promoted are frankly laughably bad at certain fundamental skills that make writing really impactful (prose, characterization, plot structure, conflict, etc.). I don’t think there’s anything necessary wrong with enjoying media that is ‘bad’, but rn the market feels oversaturated with cheap mediocrity. Even though I’m not a romance reader I’m sure there are beautifully written romance books with well developed characters and actually meaningful intimacy out there, and yet Colleen Hoover is the name at the top of the charts.

[@flowerheit4512]

thank you for expressing a position that is actually thought though enough to engage with! as a romance reader, i definitely agree that there is a "problematic" trend for publishers to prioritize quantity over quality- a trend that is reinforced by how quick most romances are to read, meaning that buyers are constantly clamouring for more. it ends up being a genre with lots of "content" and not enough art. i dont really know how to fix this though, especially since social media algorithms are kind of designed to always push whats new more than what is good.

[@VoidAlien]

I'm also asexual and I feel the same way

[@tasto7775]

this is so imporntant. if i want to read a fantasy book i don't want a fantasy romance book. but in my local library the fantasy section is so fll of all those spicy stories that there is nota lot of the real genre stuff. nothing wrong with romantic fantasy. but that is it's own genre and should be marketed as such. i want to know if the book is actually the genre or a romance version of it. and this is the biggest problem in this thing. if those spicy books werent all YA but actually labeled as romance + genre i don't think it would upset and confuse so many people

[@tinygreenleaf]

This!! I'm acespec too and being caught off guard by spicy content I wasn't expecting actually makes it really hard for me to find things I want to read and can enjoy. I'm constantly picking up and dropping books a handful of chapters in because there's suddenly smut for no reason and with no warning. It's a shame because so many of these books have really interesting premises but the 'spice' just puts me off completely

[@yourbrainonheroin]

Thank you for calling this out. I have been burned multiple times in the past few years by publishers making books (in these cases queer SFF) sound like they're full of political intrigue and/or socioeconomic commentary with a nice side of queer romance and erotica in the marketing only to find that it's actually like...a thin veneer of worldbuilding over a bloated, poorly-written romantic or sexual relationship. I'm also ace but I practically live on AO3, so one of the things that gets me excited about these books, based on their marketing, is partially the prospect of getting to read about engaging queer relationships within a thoughtful SFF setting, and getting bad or boring erotica AND bad worldbuilding just feels like such a bait-and-switch. It really makes it feel like publishers are trying to look progressive and groundbreaking when, in reality, they're just chasing that "romantasy" booktok $$$

[@SuperEkkorn]

Reads with Rachel does a lot of work against book banning, I recommend her to everyone.

[@andiman44]

I second this

[@deadmanreading3152]

Really? Her thumbnails make her look pretty obnoxious and judgmental. If that's true about being anti-book banning good for her, but I don't think I'll watch her.

[@PauLtus_B]

5:29 I honestly wish a lack of media literacy was just as simple as being unable to pick up subtext. I see it so often now that the literal text is ignored to somehow prove that some piece of art they don't like is some moral crime.

[@BroeyDeschanel]

I was nodding my head for all 55 minutes of this video. So good !

[@kristennorth3268]

The anecdote about the father and daughter in the bookstore brought me back. My father bought me the original Flowers In The Attic trilogy when I was in the 5th grade because we were at the store and the covers implied kids’ books. (This was about 1983. Pre-YA.) I still find the series in the kid sections of used bookstores run by older men who don’t bother.

[@shushia1658]

My class read these aloud to each other... It was wildly cringe but kind of fun.

[@jesi89]

Whoa whoa whoa lol. Gosh yeah I was reading all the VC Andrews at like age 10.

[@deadmanreading3152]

@@jesi89'Hannibal,' by Thomas Harris for me. Age 10. Mostly because my older brother said it 'wasn't for babies.' (He was right. That book is for no one.) Also the Bible. Ahhh... reading about Job's daughters getting him drunk so they could get pregnant by him when I was 10/11. Love how a lot of book banners are bible-thumpers too.

[@Lady_Platinum]

@@deadmanreading3152 I know you probably don’t care but fyi it was Lot who’s daughters did that not Job.

[@whoknows6983]

I will say, as a former Zutara shipper, the rise of Zukka in recent years has been very fun to watch (at least on tumblr)

[@zkkitty2436]

I used to be a kataang person but Zukka and the amazing fanart opened my eyes lmao.

[@pheonixrises11]

Blue character x Red character forever lmao

[@moustik31]

On Pinterest as well: the art is really good!

[@SplitDemonIdentity]

I was Zutara until Zuko joined Team Avatar and actually started interacting with Sokka, I changed gears immediately, which hey, if nothing else it’s kept me well out of ship discourse for ages now and making me look into weirder, more niche ships. It ends up like speculating a naval battle and getting to swan away when things get too intense.

[@SpaceandGoats]

Seeing how many Zukka fans are former Voltron fans, the rise of Zukka has been ANNNOYING As a sokka/azula shipper, it also grating to be called homophobic for not shipping fanon ships like Zukka when Sokka is...look hes straight. He's the most straight Character in the show. Idgaf what people ship but Zukka fans are annoying

[@vincentbatten4686]

When people have given up on believing they can resolve real problems, they assert themselves by trying to take control of their lives through trivial and inconsequential means. There are people out there who can't afford their medications or are getting evicted, but adults watching Poor Things is the real problem.

[@tinymxnticore]

My hot take with Zutara: They absolutely have chemistry and potential for a fantastic storyline. But I also think that the third season would have fallen apart if they had leaned into the love triangle, partly because of how the writers handled romance. I just wish they could have left it more open-ended instead of needing to pair them off.

[@lidaw.5145]

ahhh those good old days when i got wintersong for my eleventh birthday and all the innuendo passed so far over my head it ended up somewhere in the upper stratosphere

[@saxmanmel]

As a sex therapist, I'm happy that you clarified that "porn addiction" is not real, and that words have meaning. Saying that a person has porn or sex "addiction" is an easy way to pathologize expressions of sexuality, especially non-normative ones (whatever normal means). To be clear, while porn addiction may not be real, problems with pornography *definitely* exist. The problem is that the addiction label tends obfuscate, disempower, and pathologize. Even when it comes to something like alcohol or cocaine, substance use disorder is used over addiction. Anywho, great video! Words indeed matter, so thanks for pointing that out, Princess!

[@rat-gang-]

is there anything specific you can recommend i look up to read more about this? i've always assumed it could be an addiction the same way anything behavioural could. gambling, shopping, self harm, etc. are all considered behavioural addictions despite not having any substances that can directly cause it. is it specifically the 'addiction' terminology? i'm aware that the DSM doesn't use the term at all for the substance use and gambling disorder sections.

[@saxmanmel]

@@rat-gang- Regarding recommendations on the topic, you can check out Psychology Today's "Science Stopped Believing in Porn Addiction. You Should, Too." If you want something more academic, there's "Groupthink in Sex and Pornography “Addiction”: Sex-Negativity, Theoretical Impotence, and Political Manipulation." You should be able to access it through Google Scholar. Overall, part of it does deal with the terminology and the misapplication of the term, like saying a person must have complex PTSD if they're asexual. It simply doesn't fit. The above sources go into more detail on why that is. I highly recommend checking them out.

[@hankboog462]

Replying to bump the first reply and see if it gets responded to

[@saxmanmel]

​@@rat-gang- That's so weird. I don't know what happened to my reply. Did it get deleted because I said "porn" too many times? Anyhow, I'll try again. Basically, I said that Psychology Today's "Science Stopped Believing in Porn Addiction. You Should, Too" is a good, casual article. Meanwhile, "Groupthink in sex and pornography “addiction”: Sex-negativity, theoretical impotence, and political manipulation" is a scholarly article. You should be able to access it via Google Scholar. You're right; the terminology is part of the problem. It's like saying a person must have complex PTSD because they're asexual. The above resources go more into detail. I highly recommend checking them out.

[@saxmanmel]

@@hankboog462 Ugh, my reply keeps getting deleted, and I don't know why. Here's my third attempt. There's an article called "Groupthink in 'sects' and 'corn" addiction: 'Sects"-negativity, theoretical im pot ence, and political manipulation. If this comment doesn't get through, then I give up.

[@krixkhaos]

Okay two things: 1. Adults do not give young people enough credit with respect to self-regulation. When I was 13, I decided I wanted to delve into reading historical fiction, so I picked up a promising-looking book from my local library. Well, as you can imagine, it turned out to be historical romance, complete with explicit sex scenes. You know what I did? I stopped reading the book and returned it to the library, because I decided I wasn't ready for that in the stories I was consuming. And as Princess said in her video, the worst thing that came from that experience was that I learned what fingering was lol. 2. As a lifelong Dramione shipper, I have never needed my ship to be canon. I just do not understand this attitude people have where if their ship is not canon then that means they've "lost." Okay, so your ship is not canon. That's what fanfiction is for!!! Go read some! There are some absolutely exceptional stories out there on the internet that you can read FOR FREE that feature your favourite ship. Or, hell, write your own! Make fan art, or fan edits. I just don't get this mentality of feeling like you're only valid in liking a ship if the author agrees with you. Use your imagination, man, it's chill. And you know what, I reckon even if they did have their ship realised in canon, there would inevitably be some way in which it was done wrong. People just wanna hate shit because they're bored idk.

[@Vohalika]

Sometimes, even if you have spent your formative years in the trenches clamoring for a ship to become canon, winning is worse because the execution sucks. That's something ATLA is very guilty of; every time they try to do romance, it feels forced and underdeveloped, most notably in early Korra. Korrasami is so beloved because they couldn't just smush them together to make them kiss and had to portray them falling in love without saying it. That's more compelling than anything else they depicted. The ship I sold my soul to at age 12 is also technically canon, but good god, no one wanted it to happen like that.

[@Jeshiez]

I agree with your first point lol. Even as a kid with unlimited internet access, I knew my limits and would stop reading/watching something if it made me uncomfortable.

[@js66613]

Oh, yay, a fellow Dramione shipper! I mean, I love Dramione, but realistically, what are the chances it could work beyond our bestest and most beloved fanfictions? Plus, given how forced and rushed a lot of canon ships are... Also, I ship other ships too, and, again, don't need them to become canon. (That being said, I still don't like certain canon ships and fear for the possibility of another forced ship that didn't need to be and that I have no reason to root for. Not that I'd harass the creators over it, but yeah.) Ships aren't the end of the world. So long as you can block them -- which is why it'd be nice if people could use the appropriate tags -- if you aren't comfortable with them, ship and let ship. And for all those that dislike all ships -- blocking all of them is also a possibility. Plus, there are gen fics out there. (I've written and read some myself.)

[@princessjello]

That second point: zutara becoming makorra was that finger curling on the "must be canon" monkey paw

[@devonmunn5728]

There is a huge tendency among conservative folks to see kids as hollow blank slates ready to build into whatever the adults want them to be. Yes kids can be impressionable but they aren't that hollow minded. It also goes into the tendency to control kids and what kind of person they grow into

[@sethk5396]

“It is honestly up to you to diversify your own reading habits.” YES. I’m gonna sound like a boomer but can people just… take a tiny bit of initiative and quit passing the responsibility on to everyone else to curate their exposure to things? When I see something I dislike on TikTok I keep scrolling / skip, and then I don’t get that content again. I mentioned a TV show with non-explicit sexual themes on my stream once and got angry tweets about it for days lmao.

[@hangeswife2468]

Thank you for making this video. As someone who has been reading romance for over a decade, this most recent shift has felt strangely puritanical and very reactionary. I spent years exclusively reading romance written in the seventies and eighties and there was almost always sex (those old bodice-rippers make the dark romance girlies look tame). The narratives that I’ve been seeing about how people who like reading smut have a 🌽 addiction, how drawn book covers are intentionally “tricking children”, etc. It feels like a problematic echo of the current “protect the kids” moral panic, and it’s frustrating that people choose to not examine that connection in favor of feeling superior for reading “real fiction”.

[@mrscarstairs]

I honestly think people have lost the ability and/or will to cultivate their social media feed. Because while I’m not on TikTok (I’m more on booktube), I always make sure to cultivate my algo carefully. I don’t click videos that don’t interest me or I click off them if our reading tastes don’t align. I rarely get recommended creators who read lots of contemporary romance because I just don’t watch people who mainly read that genre. I think people are just used to watching whatever’s on their “for you” page and don’t realize they need to actively cultivate their feed. And while say I “carefully” cultivate my algo, it’s honestly just not clicking/scrolling off videos that don’t interest me. It’s really not that hard. I always like to bring up that when I was a kid on tumblr, I never once say any nudity or p0rn. Why? Because my dash was cultivated to my taste, which did not include that. I was actually shocked to find out that people went to tumblr for p0rn, that’s how detached I was from that.

[@duvetboa]

It's deliberate. Algorithms want to push trending content from feeds that you're not a part of because it often gets clicks. Drama and ragebait content especially so. Stuff constantly "breaches containment" from audiences it was intended for to audiences that have no context or understanding of the content. Nuance dies when this happens.

[@thatrantinggirl7376]

The thing with tiktok is that it has the best algorithm out there too, it’s actually really easy to curate what you want your fyp to look like. And if you see something you don’t like? Block ‘em and you’ll be good

[@tatehildyard5332]

@@duvetboaThis actually ties into a theory I have about all of this. I don’t think most of this discourse is even real, I think it’s all an elaborate grift. I think a lot of the thought leaders that kicked this whole mess off don’t actually care and are just stirring the pot for attention. They’re just smart enough to weaponize the tilt-a-whirl brain rot mechanics of these platforms to scam even the most thoughtful and articulate people into walking in circles. It’s all a fucking game for a handful of chronically online sociopaths who want to make money and be popular by any means necessary and the only way out is to just ignore these people and stop treating their arguments with good faith.

[@tasto7775]

to be fair it was much easier on tumblr to cultivate your dash than on algorithm based sites like tiktok or youtube. the algorithm will try to get your attention with trending things that might not be your taste. with tumblrs strictly chronologically and follower based dash you don't have that. but i totally agree just learning the skill of 'block and scroll' would benefit a lot of people.

[@urielr.borges7767]

About teens reading erotica: I was reading omegaverse hardcore gay porn and Anita Blake at 12... Like. I learned a lot about non traditional relationships styles. And realised since then that I could never be monogamous because I discovered something else existed outside of what society told me was the only option. I grew up and my understanding of myself changed and evolved as I got more nuanced info, but tbh reading erotica young didn't really do anything bad to me. I couldn't even have a real image of what was happening on the spicy scenes because I didn't really get wtf s3x was for real, but the parts that I did get (the romance, the relationship communication, the stuff about prejudice, etc) it all helped me greatly as a young queer person growing up in a extremely conservative household. Teens nowadays wanting to censor content will always baffle me to no end.

[@edencampanella54]

It's interesting to me that people seem so concerned about books having sex scenes, but most kids over the age of 10 have smart phones and enough understanding to work around parental locks. They are going to find porn and other explicit material. I did it. You did it. It's just kind of the way life works. I always want to ask people saying 'think of the children' what they were doing as a preteen lol

[@Sasu123456789x1]

​@@edencampanella54 omg exactly, you hit the nail on the head

[@CureSmileful]

Maybe it's me not having TikTok but I thought teens wanting less sex in media is about unnecessary sex scenes that don't bring anything, not even pleasure or they feel unearned due to lack of chemistry between characters. For example we don't have to see characters having intercourse on screen to know they do it (if it's even important to know that they do), not talking about smuts, more about the stories that don't focus on making romance exciting.

[@Sasu123456789x1]

@@CureSmileful I think the issue/discourse is both, honestly. One part of it is what you said, about some teens not seeing the relevance in sex scenes and another part of it is, this interesting version of censorship that some people are also concerned about when it comes to sexuality. The biggest thing to me everyone's reaction to this nuanced discussion.

[@chesspiece4257]

honestly im fine with/like sex scenes in books, but sex scenes in movies always make me uncomfortable because that’s a *real person* and i don’t feel invited 💀 like what if they regretted making that scene? i think that might be part of the “not wanting sex in media” is just switching platforms. because smut in books is becoming more and more popular while smut in movies is dropping off

[@VaporeAnne]

‘Kataang is boring’ is the vindication I needed today. I’m also 32 and feel the same way about Zutara I do now as I did when I was 15. I was a sucker for the Fire and Water ships and I was gonna drown with my boat.

[@MademoiselleRed1390]

You gave the Dramione and Drarry example and it reminds me of the double standars with SasuSaku and SasuNaru. The one with the female character gets all the problematic allegations, when Naruto was basically in the same boat as her for most of the story once Sasuke went dark.

[@andiman44]

I’m so glad she brought that up because I had never noticed that double standard before

[@stapler942]

"As the judge remarked the day that he acquitted my aunt Hortense, 'to be smut it must be utterly without redeeming social importance.'" -Tom Lehrer

[@radiocerk]

Filth, I'm glad to say I'd in the mind of the beholder. When correctly viewed, everything is lewd.

[@darkstarr984]

Whoa. I wonder if my book will even count as smut by the end by this definition.

[@stapler942]

@@darkstarr984 The song I'm quoting was largely satirizing the Supreme Court decision Roth v. United States in 1957, which created a new test for what material could be considered "obscene" and contains some of my favourite vocabulary usage in a legal document: "appeals to prurient interest" and "utterly without redeeming social importance". The phrases in context: "The standard for judging obscenity, adequate to withstand the charge of constitutional infirmity, is whether, to the average person, applying contemporary community standards, the dominant theme of the material, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient interest." "But implicit in the history of the First Amendment is the rejection of obscenity as utterly without redeeming social importance." There's also the word "lascivious" found in the document, the sound of which I quite love. 😆

[@gubblebubble3976]

i love that you brought up "what could be the worst thing to happen if a kid reads icebreaker." i never thought about how reading sex scenes in a book is one of the safest routes to explore/learn about sex lol. kids are being exposed to so much on the internet...and like parents freaking out about spicy content appearing in books their children read is what's so scary?? lol so many kids are so behind when it comes to reading, so truly how often are they really interacting with this type of material? that we need to censor and rate EVERYTHING??

[@niyah7139]

Unpopular opinion I love Jin from the earth Kingdom I honestly wish they brought her back at Zuko's love interest instead of mai.

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

I second that.

[@andiman44]

Their date was so cute ☺️

[@thomasdegroat6039]

Got called a "pedophile who doesn't understand consent" on Tiktok because I said I liked Poor Things and I'm like, "you understand that Bella is not a literal child and it's an allegory, right?"

[@periodt87]

could you explain the poor things allegory?/ gen

[@SIGuy7480]

you lost that argument when you tried to have a in-depth conversion on Tiktok

[@thomasdegroat6039]

@@periodt87 I think Princess Weekes explains it pretty well in the video

[@MarsheIIo]

she does literally have the brain of a child, and in the earlier parts of their relationship ruffalo's character treats her like one. smells like coercion to me

[@afterdinnercreations936]

I mean, I get it. She's got a literal mind of an infant, but the power-dynamics are completely-flipped. Its basically like Leeloo from the Fifth Element, except she's in charge of her own sexuality. She is baby who outsmarts everyone.

[@GKnapptime]

I agree with all your points about not wanting book age rating systems, but I wish books were better about clearly listing trigger warnings somewhere a person doesn’t have to hunt around on outside sources to find. A simple TW list like KZbinrs include at the beginning of videos would be really helpful to help readers sort out what books don’t interest them and prevent anyone from being blindsided by material they do not want to engage with.

[@Homodemon]

That honestly sounds so boring... Then again I've never read a book totally blind, I always look out a spoiler review somewhere else Spoilers be damned, I want my horrible gut wrenching splatterpunk to be as dark as my coffee or i won't read the book

[@zkkitty2436]

I use storygraph to check trigger warnings before reading books. You also don’t need an account to use it. It’s not perfect since users put tw on there and rate how prominent they are, but it has been a hugely useful tool for me in both deciding what I want to engage with and also being able to prepare myself when I know I’ll be sensitive to smth. I try to engage with books that I find important even when I know the subject matter is going to take a toll on me.

[@zkkitty2436]

@@HomodemonI’m glad that you’re able to enjoy books the way you want. Luckily, you can just skip the tw page if you don’t want to read it. Meanwhile, I have PTSD, and reading a book that has triggering content can make me spiral into a depressive episode or send me into a horrific flashback that takes days to recover from. Trigger warnings are accessibility tools and are important even if you don’t need them.

[@Homodemon]

@@zkkitty2436 is always the same with your kind... You want to make your arbitrary problems part of everyone else's responsibility and announce your weak spots blatantly You think I don't need them?? I spoiler myself on everything for a reason, or else I become increasingly anxious until I can't go on anymore. I would rather spoil the surprise whole and be done with it, because one measly word will just make me worry and also, maybe their definition of SA or whatever is actually something that I can endure to read you know???? I hate being looked down like a child that needs to have their eyes and ears covered, fuck that self victimizing bs I read what I read because I want to read it, I watch the media that I watch because I wanna be challenged too If you can't deal with that, just keep watching Bluey

[@86fifty]

I would absolutely love this too! I saw somewhere, a great way to get around the people whining that it might spoil something - in Germany (I think that's where they said this happens), books are published with the TW list at the very back! Really ingenious, I thought, cuz no one would see the list, unless they flipped to it purposefully, so it's super-easy to go in totally blind.

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

censorship is absolutely pointless. Rating systems won't help, here. Once a kid gets to a higher reading level, the content has to mature, that's just how it works. It becomes less about vocabulary and much more about concepts...

[@griffenspellblade3563]

Rating systems help up to about 10-12. This is the time you are mostly gating how difficult the text is more than the content. It’s one you hit 13 and gain the average adult literacy level that you really need to learn how to self-censor and select your books. You need to learn how to bounce from cotton candy fluff to difficult and layered. You need to learn how to adjust how disturbing/unsettling your media consumption is. The problem now is that YA is a failed category that is not the promised bridge to adult books because people are getting stuck and never going to adult fiction so YA just gets more adult. So why does it still exist?

[@StrangeArgument]

Shipping kept me out of fandom for a long time. As a sex-repulsed ace, I could not hang. I only started to dip my toes into fandom as an adult, when I felt more comfortable in my own skin, not as bothered by people enjoying what they enjoy. The popularity of smut no longer made me feel so alien. I can write my own acespec takes, and happily let others do their thing. I don't understand how so many fans can have the energy to fight each other instead of making more of what they love.

[@docsaico]

“Be consistent!” Thoroughly enjoyed this video, and this was my favorite point. This is all I ask of people: proudly be yourself, but be consistent! Be honest! Beautifully stated points, bringing me back to my fandom days. ☺️

[@mikeymullins5305]

I read erotica for the first time when i was nine, and i have yet to stop. I dont think it harmed me at all. I read it of my own volotion. Nowadays, i consider myself asexual, but im still very fascinated with both fiction and nonfiction about sex.

[@kyla_vina9410]

Are you me wth

[@alejandramoreno6625]

And here I am wishing Ursula K Le Guin had made a smutty version of the last three books of Earthsea, because the sex-scenes between Ged and Tenar were a sentence long. There are a lot of books under the sun, people who do not want smut, they can chose something else, or skip those scenes, like many of us skip battle scenes.

[@lucyla9947]

I'm actually glad that the primary fandoms I'm in are old enough that most of the shipping wars have basically cooled down. I've noticed that when the fandom is old enough shipping wars and other forms of fan conflict cool down, and it's nice (At least until something (typically a new entry) resparks the fandom wars). It helps that one of them has so little confirmed in regards to relationships in canon that literally nobody has any ground over anyone else to argue that their interpretation is "more correct." So you kinda just have to roll with it.

[@lamuccafamuh]

I find the idea that minors shouldn't read books that were written for adults absurd... You are not a "literal child" until you turn 18, when you magically graduate into being an adult (somehow, despite never being exposed to mature content and adult ideas before). And what would schools' literature curriculums look like if you were only allowed to teach books written for children? Part of the point of education is to come to understand the world as an adult.

[@nekomarulupin]

"Feels like Moms for Liberty on the other side!" Conservatism isn't always about the starting point, but the final destination.

[@Orynae]

I think the idea of age ratings on books is a bit of a moral panic. I hope to god kids these days have access to libraries where they can read whatever they want to get their hands on. I mean, I think it's great if parents have the media literacy and lines of communication with their kids to steer them away from anything that might go a bit too far. But having (conservative) parents completely control the narrative would not be great. For the anti-romance trend, though, I do actually remember being an older teen and walking down the library YA aisle, reading through the back covers, and being frustrated that all of them seemed to have romance as pretty central to the story, even books that were not ostensibly in the romance genre (like fantasy). I ate those romantic "sub"plots up for years, but I did start to get tired of them. I guess that's when I started to dip into the adult novel sections of the library (and got in a bit over my head when it came to sex scenes lol). Not that non-YA books don't contain romance, most of them still do, it's a part of many humans' experience. But they can sometimes confine it to a subplot (or a side note) rather than make it become the main character's main thought process for a large section of the book, like YA tends to do lol.

[@justthecoolestdudeyo9446]

I still feel like the extreme fear of teenagers reading about or even seeing sex- not some problematic element of the sex but just the sex itself- is based in Puritan ideas about sexuality and defilement. Like, a) teens are treated like they have no understanding of sex and sexuality, which was certainly not the case for me, I doubt that there's really been that huge of a gap in understanding in less than a decade, and b) that seeing or engaging with sex in media is some kind of trauma. Which, absent additional context of what's being seen (re: consent and the like), it's just not!

[@justthecoolestdudeyo9446]

To clarify: that doesn't mean be that weirdo trying to recommend smut to young people, just stop having moral panics over a 13 year old reading about or watching a story where people fuck. I promise that simply engaging with the idea that the thing billions of people over course of history have done and learned about will not ruin someone's development.

[@Zatanabanana]

The shoutout to Mark Ruffalo’s thrust game made me laugh so hard I hurt my sternum

[@wayfaring_stranger_]

"because they are afraid of having hard conversations with their children . Instead of having those hard conversations they rather deny them access to those materials." Awesome line. Instant subscribe.

[@lapis_noctis786]

Genuinely thanks you, you help me take a step back on the all Booktok debate. It also remind me that I have to be careful with any debate happening in short form medium in particular, it oversimplify the all issue and make it way to easy to lose the plot.

[@satya4234]

Don't do this to me, right when I was about to sit down to study.😭

[@XatxiFly]

Great video and I appreciate you reminding me that there’s supposed to be JOY in these discussions, they don’t all have to be so morally fraught. I’ve never seen any of the media you talk about ships from but it’s always so fun to hear you go into it. I always love your presentation style as well as your analysis, it’s so engaging. And that merkin WAS workin

[@cookkeh]

i always think it's important in discussions of "porn addiction" to remember that most mainstream scientists don't think it's an actual thing, and one of the major determining factors for whether someone considers their porn consumption unhealthy or a sign of addiction is having conservative religious beliefs! shaming people for their perfectly normal healthy interest in human sexuality is a tool of evangelical religions to control their followers and keep them from questioning the toxic mindset they teach, and the way kids on tiktok are so incredibly terrified of anything to do with discussions of sexuality are a byproduct of that conditioning.

[@Asummersdaydreamer14]

I have to make sure my romantic fiction recommendations to my aunt has zero spice. She has three grown children, but she just dislikes any explicit intimacy scenes and loves fade to black. Different strokes for different folks. Personally I am chill with explicit scenes if it feels like the characters’ relationship has made me want them to be happy because they are so obsessed and in love with each other or if I just want to follow the yoga poses of the less conventional positions.

[@crashb800]

As a young adult, I can say for certain that kids will find a way, and the best thing we can do is prepare children and have conversations with them about how to navigate these things. The thing not to do is try to baby-proof the world for absolutely everyone to the detriment of so many people.

[@thatdoodlebunny1593]

The hostility in fandom discourse feels old and new at the same time. I remember 10+ years ago that fandom discourse was gatekeeping or straight up bullying children/ND people for displaying their art. I think it was driven by deeply insecure people that wanted a reason to feel superior. The attitude feels the same, but now there’s a mask of moralizing and coopting social justice terms. The goal isn’t to have a discussion or educate. The goal, like all bullying, is to feel superior. That’s my opinion on it, anyway.

[@IbraheemM98]

You've articulated my issues with Poor Things perfectly. I felt like it was designed around the complicated nature of Bella's Sex life. Although it's not the only thing the movie is about and it does go into her other experiences, my problems with the movie center around the content, not the context. Subverting a trope is not enough you also have to explore the purpose behind the trope and engage with the sexual themes at play. The early scenes feel to me like the titillation and taboo of watching someone experience sex for the first time and that to me feels like such a strange thing to focus on. Yorgos Lanthimos' previously made film "Dog Tooth" had the exact same themes but infinitely more subtle respectful and far more challenging and shocking honestly. The fear concern and empathy I felt for the adults living like kids was more impactful because it was implied and we were led to speculate in the ambiguity. For me, those early scenes in "Poor Things" were just an over-reliance on shock value and the rest of the movie is about as subtle as a brick which can work sometimes, but it just didn't work for me at all.

[@mrhare00]

I pulled out of fandom spaces a while ago and recently started to get back into it by playing Honkai Star Rail--and man, I feel this way very strongly. There's a lot of discourse around shipping and its starting to feel exhausting to engage with anyone.

[@queerplatypus9357]

Feel exactly like this! Another KZbinr made a video 2 days ago about headcanons for character's sexualities - the creator stated several times that they were examining canon material for examples of coding for interest/fun and if viewers were likely to not be interested in such, that they respectfully should click off. It was disheartening to see a significant number of commenters just parroting the same old 'forcing your headcanons over others' thing. People have truly forgotten the sentiment of "Don't like, Don't read".

[@ActuallyAnanya]

I'm an Asian who loves Past Lives. Not Korean or even East Asian, but yeah. Born in Asia and moved to Europe as a young child, while still regularly visiting my home country. I think the film is more likely to resonate with third culture kids like myself.

[@michaelzzaki]

A small thing - I read awhile back that the person who made the "your fave is problematic" tumblr eventually really regretted it. She was like 14 and isn't happy about the impact it had. Of all the things we worry about with teens online, it's almost never "you might influence your whole culture by accident before you're even 16." Such an age we live in!

[@ChrisBrooks34]

"If its written well there's always potential to ship it." A statement to live by

[@BlahNetworkBro]

As someone who isn’t on tik tok doesn’t read romance but is always interested in expanding my genre appreciation; my problem with the viral booktok romances is the reoccurring patterns of toxic masculinity, heteronormativity, and whiteness that keep me thoroughly uninterested. Based on what I’ve seen of some of the movie adaptations I think there’s an argument to be made about some of these stories containing misogynist subtexts, however it really doesn’t sound like that’s the discussion people are trying to have 😂💀😭 i appreciated your rec in the video and am gonna look around the romance section next time I am at the library

[@flowerheit4512]

if you want another recommendation, i really loved The Charm Offensive by Alison Cochran! it's like if the movie *I want to marry ryan banks* was less white and less straight

[@oriaanhunter]

I deadass paused the video at the first atla clip to gleefully proclaim to my roommate that you are a fellow zutara truther, only for us to dissolve into maniacal laughter when I unpaused and you changed into the zutara shirt!! Absolutely amazing