No-Twilight Hate Isn't Just Misogyny

Sexism against Twilight doesn't mean erasing the problems with the books. SPONSORED BY 80,000 Hours | To get started planning a career that works on one of the world’s most pressing problems, sign up now at 80000hours.org...
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✨Sources:
💎"Sacrificial Scripts, Blood Values and Gender in the Twilight Vampire Narrative" by Grietje Dresen {www.jstor.org/...}
💎"TWILIGHT" IS NOT GOOD FOR MAIDENS: GENDER, SEXUALITY, AND THE FAMILY IN STEPHENIE MEYER'S "TWILIGHT" SERIES by ANNA SILVER {www.jstor.org/...}
💎 "My Vampire Boyfriend: Postfeminism, "Perfect" Masculinity, and the Contemporary Appeal of Paranormal Romance" by Ananya Mukherjea {www.jstor.org/...}
💎 "Twilight's Heteronormative Reversal of the Monstrous: Utopia and the Gothic Design" by Kelly Budruweit
{www.jstor.org/...}
💎 "Civilized Vampires Versus Savage Werewolves Race and Ethnicity in the Twilight Series" by Natalie Wilson
{www.academia.e...}
💎"DO MORMON MOMS DREAM OF MONSTROUS GODS?" STEPHENIE MEYER’S TWILIGHT MYTH AS MORMON HEROINE’S JOURNEY" By Maxine Hanks
{sunstone.org/w...}

[@colormegrumpy]

How does Jasper function in a high school when a paper cut sends him into a blood-thirsty frenzy? Paper cuts, menstral blood, sports injuries, fist fights... Blood everywhere!

[@SPofSaturnProduction]

Yea seriously, how does he manage?

[@Homodemon]

God yeah!! A vampire in a school setting would be hell to conceal but I guess it comes with the plot of "oh Edward has enough self control in him but Bella's blood is super extra delicious and special, so of course it would send him and every other vampire into a frenzy from a mere whiff" I think so far the only vampire media I've read that has addressed how hellish the experience of becoming a vampire while still attending school, is a manga called Happiness by Oshimi Shuzo. Homeboy gets attacked one night and turned into a vampire without him realizing. And the entire week he's slowly turning and his instincts start kicking in, he really REALLY starts smelling blood everywhere in his school and breaking down in random bouts of fever and painful hunger pangs for reasons he doesn't understand, specially whenever he's close to girls which like, he suspects why, cus he can literally smell it... but he doesn't know he's literally a vampire yet so from his perspective he's slowly losing his mind and it terrifies him... It ends up being so debilitating physically he stops going to school completely after accidentally attacking a classmate in a literal frenzied state and sgit just goes downhill from there (btw, is an excelent manga, from the same author of Inside Mari and Flowers of Evil, totally recommend it, incredibly brutal though, but is an amazing Vampire centric manga that plays its horror and drama completely straight)

[@PetitPoneyDuVercors26]

As a teen I wondered why menstruation wasn't mentioned, and a solution exists too, the damn low dose pill that stops the periods, I was taking pill not for contraception as a teen (severe acne) I assumed it was just because the usa are bigoted, so no mention of any contraception even if it have several usages outside of preventing getting pregnant (As a french teen in the mid 2000's I had already the strong idea that usa were bigoted, anti americanism was there too in my country after irak invasion... it was strange all this fuss with flags the oath and stuff it's alien for me all this nationalism etc, here that was quite exclusive of the far right, sadly the overton window is exploding here too now... And I realised my country is bigoted in another way too even on the "left", like the islamophobia is so rampant... and the teen dramas with often pregnancies etc the no abortion mentioned...so strange, religion is way less important here, so teens getting abortion it's mostly shame and slutshaming and less "it's a sin", but that's not really better anyways, we need to stop shaming teens...)

[@biggestastiest]

imagine if his frenzy was triggered by vape clouds. dude would be having a terrible time.

[@PanEtRosa]

and for that matter, why the hell are vampires going to school in the first place? I'm probably forgetting some flimsy excuse in the books, 'cause it's been literally 15 years since I read one. but come on..... they're there to prey on kids. that's it. that's the only reason for them to be there.

[@OverlySarcasticProductions]

I've only ever watched the movies, but I do remember it striking me as deeply un-self-aware that Bella is clearly supposed to have this kind of Outsider Angst where she Doesn't Fit In and Nobody Understands Her and then she's conventionally beautiful and immediately popular in school and all her friends love her (omg so exhausting to have these people fawning over her all the time) and her greatest dream is to be young and hot and heterosexually married to her high school sweetheart forever. like bella I am sorry you feel alone but you are the definition of conventional and the world was literally made to give you what you want -R

[@danimariafe]

I get your point but also is all about perception, bella didn't really see herself like that bc back in arizona she was invisible and also pale lmao

[@cambriaofthevastoceans6721]

You can really taste the notes from the author's mormon background

[@thequietdreamer2186]

Same goes for the Michael Bay Transformers: the same lack of artistic self-awareness, made inexplicably popular by acts of mass stupidity.

[@kohhna]

@@cambriaofthevastoceans6721Indeed! Its the weird mormon shit thats the problem all day. As I've said elsewhere, in Twilight, as in vampire fiction in general the "blood kiss" is a very thinly veiled metaphor / substitution for another kind of fluid transfer, i.e. kissing, boning etc. The whole thing of the Twilight series, it's emotional core is the "will they, won't they" or specifically when does Edward get to finally "fully consumate the relationship" by turning Bella. And the answer is, after marraige, after they've been together literal years, after they save the world, after they have a kid and when the only alternative to not doing so is literal death. So yeah kids, thats when it's ok, and not before.

[@OspreySoul]

If Bella had just fallen for a normal guy, she would totally be one of those girls trying to get all of her friends on Facebook into whatever MLM she'd joined onto.

[@scott2k23]

The most interesting female characters in the movies are Rosalie and Leah. Both where labeled as bitches but suffered the most in the movies because of the men in their lives. I wondered what kind of message Stephanie Meyer was sending when she did that? 🤔

[@perrisavallon5170]

I fucking loved Leah when I first read the books. In hindsight I think I was attached to her because she's the closest thing to a queer character that we ever got (in the sense that as a werewolf, she was stuck with a typically "masculine" aspect about her identity despite being a woman. like if twilight werewolves were real i'd totally say female werewolves are welcome in the queer community, fuck it, lgbtw+)

[@thequietdreamer2186]

The kind associated with suburban Mormon lunacy, it seems.

[@LadyAhro]

I went down a mini rabbit hole of Leah centric spitefics a while back and definitely felt that she really deserved her own story by a better author

[@perrisavallon5170]

@@LadyAhro Tbh this is true for like half of the characters in Twilight

[@angelofpurity1992]

Leah deserved better.

[@timothymclean]

If people criticize Stephanie Meyer but give Michael Bay a pass, that's probably misogyny. But a lot of people criticizing Stephanie Meyer also criticize Michael Bay. Context is important for judging everything, including judgement.

[@waywardmind]

Well said

[@claudiabcarvalho]

Thank you! I always use Transformers and Michael Bay to argue against people who say Twilight should be banned because it's bad writing. That said, it's so frustrating trying to educate people that they're wrong for hating Twilight because of their internalized misogyny, just so I can tell them that it'd be better for them not to enjoy Twilight because of misogyny and racism.

[@StormTheeOmega]

O u ate that!

[@marielozoria]

hmm i see what you mean, but i also wonder if there can be some defense of michael bay, in that he is able to competently use all the cinematic techniques and tools at his disposal to portray his vision. michaal bay is a misogynist, but he's also a competent director. stephanie meyer is a bad writer and the misogyny just comes as a byproduct of the bland white nonsense that is twilight (if you're unconvinced lindsay ellis's michael bay auteur theory videos are worth a watch)

[@setofreakinkaiba8553]

​@marielozoria just because he is a good director who can showcase his misogyny doesn't excuse it. It isn't even a good defense.

[@scott2k23]

The real problem with Twilight is racism and glorification of colonization with quileute tribes.

[@nerdtubewtf]

indeed, it's all of it. The misogyny is common in a lot of romance yet racism made it so much worse. I did indeed read this series and the fan fic series. Like the opening, I too found some escape cuz I was dealing with life dealing issues and it's nice to escape for a bit. When you're in a shite ton of physical pain, you really need a light escape. I also wanted to see what the deal was about. I didn't ever want to judge without reading. I've come to Ms. Weekes conclusion a decade or so later. TL;DR it's all of it in totality

[@balthasardenner5216]

The real problem is that it sucks

[@GatekeeperGuardian-wv3cd]

Yeah, I remember being a bit uncomfortable with the implication that American Indians are just born spousal abusers. Despite Stephanie Meyer being Mormon, I like to think the implication wasn't intentional, but it sure was interesting to see that implication there.

[@emiliobustamante2401]

The fact that Twilight made SMeyers a really wealthy woman but the quilleute people have never - and will never - see a single cent from her is really damming

[@DetNate]

@@emiliobustamante2401 Real talk. Helping out the Quileute with some money would be the least Meyer could do after the disastrous representation of them she did.

[@yvaincallipso84]

The Quileute Tribe where done so dirty by that woman. She not only perpetuated so many racial stereotypes, but she completely ignored their established culture and beliefs and just... made up her own for them. It would have been only slightly better if she'd just made up a tribe instead of saddling these poor people with the job of explaining their real culture to the misinformed world over and over and over again. Also the creepy age stuff. Like when Jacob falls in love with a literal baby (but it's totally OK, she's an adult in like 3 years)

[@gwathgor]

Tbh Jacob isn't even the case that always bothered me the most - sure, that whole thing with half-vampires maturing faster feels like such a handwave and it's all still weird and creepy af, but, you know, at least there's *some* sort of excuse, however half-baked. And also, Renesmee is still a supernatural creature capable of crushing rocks with bare hand as a toddler, with a whole family of even stronger supernatural beings, some with powers, and an f-ton of money - if she decided she actually doesn't want to get involved with that older guy she knew since being a baby, she could definitely fight against it and have a way out. Quil and Claire, tho... 😬

[@thedeliveryboy1123]

people say stuff like "if you hate twilight you're a man or a pickme!" when they could also be a self respecting person of color lmaoooo

[@lainiwakura1776]

She comes a from a religion trying to claim American Indians are a lost tribe of Israel, or something like that, so yeah...

[@ember9361]

@@gwathgor still a baby, still weird

[@Shadowfate93]

Jacob looses autonomy when he imprinted. They all do. They loose the ability to choose. They become brainwashed and obsessed against their will. Jacob hated the concept of imprinting.

[@Athena-vs4cv]

The Rosalie and Leah storylines definitely send the message "We can acknowledge women's suffering, just as long as they shut up about it as soon as possible afterwards and carry on". Because Rosalie and Leah don't, the disdain and hostility they face in the series is quite frankly disturbing, whereas "perfect" Bella, having had her heart broken by Edward and suffering all sorts of emotional abuse at his hands, quickly lets it go when he deigns to pick things up with her again. Not a great message to send to young people...

[@courtneythompson6179]

Whenever I think about Edward getting mad at Jacob for hurting Bella I bitterly think, “Yeah, only you are allowed to do that.”

[@Athena-vs4cv]

@@courtneythompson6179 So true!

[@courtneythompson6179]

@@Athena-vs4cv I hate him so much!

[@IvellScarlett]

There was a lot of misogyny in the vitriol directed at Twilight when the movie came out, but I feel like we really overcorrected for that. The pendulum swinging in the opposite direction isn't a good response. There is a lot and I mean a lot, to criticise about Twilight.

[@animeotaku307]

Just a matter of getting it into the middle, where we can call out the misogyny in 90% of the hate the series got AND the legitimate issues the series has, which also includes misogyny.

[@nviz47]

Well put! Agreed!😊

[@nviz47]

The misogyny has layers (even within examples! 😬🙃) And there's even YIKES bits for sexism generally too (re sexual pressuring/sexual assault - Ive commented somewhere else but besides the more known examples ofc with Bella and Book-2 onwards Jacob, and the grooming, and consent issues EVERYWHERE there's even one for Edward arguably being the victim; iirc with Tanya, one of the Denali, having a history of barraging him with sexually explicit imaginings of the two of them whenever he comes to stay, because she knows he can't block her and no one else can hear, and how she physically corners him/trys to pressure him...and has rejected his 'no's' and requests to stop, too.... So. 😅even Edward, an observably abusive, manipulative character is the recipient in at least one instant of this crap).

[@ethcal3195]

​@nviz47 And BELLA kept whining and nagging him for sex isn't respecting the FRIES of consent, either...

[@animeotaku307]

@@ethcal3195 She straight up would have assaulted him if he didn’t have vampire strength

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

The whole vampire soulmate and werewolf imprinting shit feels like a really insecure thing that a teenager would put into their story. "No one could love me without supernatural magic or I'm horrified of the possibility of being cheated on." Which once again could be interesting if there was some kind of analysis of that but nope.

[@paulgibbon5991]

It is quite a handy way of fast-forwarding the relationship and skipping the whole getting to know and trust each other thing. They're just magically obsessed with and / or horny for each other as soon as they meet! Thinking of it, I'd like to see a take on that where a couple are bonded to OTHER people, but their love for each other is enough to override that unnatural compulsion.

[@Chasityolaf]

Yea I was obsessed with those on wattpad when I was in middle school lol

[@BrigitteEmpire]

This is the KZbin comment section of a killer, Bella

[@KaidenZvek]

I'm dead

[@justabluelilicon526]

“Not treating awareness as a threat to enjoyment” is a perfect way to put it

[@Silvermoon424]

I've never read Twilight, but I used to obsessively read Das Mervin's chapter takedowns of the entire series. Something I remember them pointing out is how, when POC become vampires, they become extremely pale- only a vague olive undertone in their skin denotes that the vampire used to be a person of color. Supposedly this is because the blood leaves the body after death/vampirism, but melanin doesn't just disappear like that lmfao

[@andiman44]

Meyer also notes that it’s the vampires pale appearance that makes them so beautiful…can you say yikes? 😬

[@holliebrokaw3716]

I feel like this might be the most mormon thing in the books. Ie. Converts (vampires) turning "white and delightsom"

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

Sup another Das Mervin fan!

[@moss7737]

Anne Rice did something vaguely similar in her vampire chronicles which always bothered me. Ancient vampires who were people of color originally, most notably the vampire queen Akasha, are described as having porcelain white skin just because... the melanin faded away after a long time or something? I guess??

[@phoneman-xs3ft]

And thats why blade will always be a better vampire movie

[@lindseystein9676]

I always assumed the twilight series wasn’t as respected because of the obvious abusive relationship & creepy age gap. At least the movies leave out a lot of the racism that’s in the books. The author reallyyyy had a fixation on Jacob’s “red/russet skin.”

[@spacebar9733]

The age gap means nothing because Edward’s mind cannot age more than it did when he was turned. He will always mentally be 19 or however old he is. This is explained in midnight sun at least.

[@TheWhiteermine]

@@spacebar9733 forever together with a 19 year old teenager?! 😳 can you imagine? All the Drama 🤣🫠

[@belen3638]

​@@spacebar9733Imagine having the brain development of a teenager your entire life. If i was a vampire that would piss me off so bad

[@midnightsummerdream7]

​@@spacebar9733it's Meyer's excuse to prevent it from seeming as grooming. Somehow, whenever it suits him and his passion for knowledge, Edward becomes fully capable of developing his brain, memory skills, coming up with newer and newer life experiences that have been giving him newer and newer insights. And yet he would still be like: (read in a sheepish tone) "i-i im just like any basic teen, im your boy next door, i never grow up mentally, im like exactly like you and your classmates Bella, im forever 17, my level of comprehension is the same as yours... don't look at my perfectly perfect school and uni grades, don't mention my brilliant achievements in medicine alongside Carlisle, it doesn't have anything to do with my brain, my brain never but NEVER develops! trust me plsssss! Can we date already?"

[@Li_Tobler]

Hi, could you please explain what's wrong with the bit about "red/russet skin"? I'm new to these issues and on top of that, English is not my native language, so I grew up in totally different contexts and environment with completely different struggles. Thank you in advance!

[@chavezsessoms7071]

The line you said about Jacob using Renesme as an entry point into the white/vampire world had me say not Jacob the Kanye of twilight 😭💀💀 minus the predator behavior

[@TacticusPrime]

I don't know about minus...

[@higurashikai09]

I never read the book, but a childhood friend of mine wanted me to come watch the first movie in theatres. I had no idea what I was going to watch honestly, so my sister, that friend and I all went to see the movie. That moment when he went into the sunlight, my sister leaned up to me and whispered "when is he going to light on fire?" I leaned over to our friend and whispered "is he sweating?" And she responded "he's sparkling." That was my experience with the movie

[@higurashikai09]

I never thought it was "gay" or anything for him to sparkle, but I thought it was way too tame to be considered some dramatic reason for the vampires to avoid seeing people. Like sparkly makeup is basically what happens to them. Nothing else about the movie really stood out to me. Other than maybe that moment where they lied about Bella like falling down a set of stairs and then out a window-that was hilarious.

[@sandracraft517]

Wasn't Jasper Cullen in the Confederate army? How can he still be adjusting to vampirism after over a century? Also, how does an embryo with an undeveloped brain have "thoughts"? This book is so confusing.

[@alechiavassa]

I've been following your channel since the MelinaPendulum days, seing you talk about Twilight brings me back

[@fortunamajor7239]

Saaaame I'm so glad she's getting her flowers

[@olivia8243]

Great video! It bothers me when people say that a work of fiction is feminist because "a woman's choices drive the narrative." Not every choice a woman makes is inherently feminist, but also it's not even true! Fictional characters do not make choices. They are not real; they are constructed by writers, and the actions they take represent a particular point of view. This is why I've been trying to get away from the concept of "agency" as it pertains to female characters. It's a good starting point, but I think we can ask for more

[@anniemarie63]

Justice for Rosalie & Leah.

[@justmeagain4662]

"No, I swear officer it's not grooming I'm just her magically chosen much older wolf-mate who will be a presence her entire life and then eventually become her husband! But not in a sexual way!"

[@carriemoscoe3159]

Me again, btw, for the longest time my philosophy has been "let people like things" so I want to say thank you for deconstructing that and challenging that! It's like all this Tumblr discourse that on one hand there shouldn't be morality in fiction and that writers can create whatever they want- but when you challenged the statement of letting people like things, it made me realize that no work is exempt from criticism and that writers/creators aren't always perfect or right should be held accountable, especially in how they handle sensitive topics. And that while liking a problematic thing doesn't mean you are a problematic person irl and that you can't get a joyful experience out of it, it does mean you have to be able to criticize it and deconstruct it and acknowledge the bigger issues in play and question it. Thanks, Princess! Your videos are like crack to me!

[@Drowninginantimatter]

For the out of state viewers: Quileute (alt spelling Quillayute) is three syllables approximately pronounced 'kwil-ee-oot'. Their website has a bunch of informational resources (in part because of twilight) including a section on their language with the pronunciation they use. I linked the site in my last commentnbut i think youtube killed the comment for it.

[@Princess_Weekes]

Thank you for that!

[@virtualprimatologist]

My friends and I enjoyed the Twilight Renaissance because 1) it was fun to revisit something that had been so important to us as kids but also 2) it was interesting to go back and deconstruct all the bullshit messaging that underlies the story arc. So thank you for putting together such an interesting video that goes even deeper! Like, I don't know why it blew my mind when you called Bella a trad wife, but yeah of course that's what she is! And justice for Leah Clearwater - reading back through breaking dawn, the way she was portrayed was just so fucked up

[@DorianGay]

Thank you! Can we please stop "reevaluating" Twilight and just forget that it ever happened?

[@jellyfish0311]

Hahahaha but I agree

[@saku577]

You were one of the first accounts I ever subscribed to back in the day (with my old account). I'm so happy to see you're still making Twilight videos 😂 Thank you for teaching me so much over the past one and a half decade.

[@zutena5090]

as a queer girl i related to leah so much more than anyone else in the book and it sucked that she didnt get anything from the story. something about the weirdness with which they treated her girl werewolf status vibed with me and it sucked that the actual universe/god of the book seemed to hate her too

[@claudiabcarvalho]

That's interesting, one of the girls in my group of friends at the time came out to us, the books and movies were still being released, and Leah always reminded me of her. Now, I see that her story is very queer, even though I'm a straight woman. It's so sad that Meyer had such interesting ideas, but she didn't have the ability to see the potential of them because of her religion and upbringing.

[@julphines]

A friend and I have recently been doing a re-read of Twilight together and it kind of shocked me how, after so many years of discourse etc, it's just so boring. The pacing is bad, all the characters are flat (justice for Leah), and there are just so many beginning author issues I question the editors. And yet it still fascinates me, as a work, as a cultural phenomenon. I still think Breaking Dawn is one of the most entertaining books I've ever read just because of how buck-wild it is. It's okay to like things, but I think exploring that thing and why you like it is also important, and honestly more fun. It's a deeper way to engage with a work.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Problematic shit in fiction of any kind isn't a problem...IF handled correctly. The problem comes from people NOT handling them correctly. And people who take the wrong lesson or feel admiration for the said problematic thing. Like a 40k fan seeing Imperium and instead going 'holy shit humanity is fucked it needs to change' he goes 'holy hell I WISH we can build Imperium in tge real world'. A minority but still there.

[@a.r.e.j.1693]

Thank you so much for this! I remember being so mad about Lindsey Ellis' video on the subject, she simplified a complex issue and I lost respect for her way before all her twitter drama happened. Meanwhile Folding Ideas' video on 50 Shades said it all in just a few sentences: people hate 50S for its romanticization of a toxic relationship, the misrepresentation of the BDSM community, but also a bunch of people just want to hate on "mommy porn" and female sexuality. All things can be right at the same time! Great job tackling all the points equally and not dismissing any side, Weekes. eta: Forgot to say. I agree with everything you said about imprinting (keeping Jacob in the family, giving him access to white privilige, etc) but I wanna add another reason. It worked as a way to get him out of the way, because it's explained he never "truly" liked Bella, he was sensing the egg in her womb. This is a trope I hate in fiction I hate: when the character has to make a choice, instead of making them choose, one of the options is removed by the plot. People don't like it when you choose based on simple "I like it" there has to be a "good reason". They write like this so half of the public won't be mad (eg HTTYD2). This I think it relates directly to your points about Bella not actually having choices. Also it related to the lack of queerness, because with that logic Jacob should've liked Edward for his semen. ;) Another thing I wanna mention to backup your point on choices is that the rule 63 book goes completely different at the end, boy Bella gets what girl Bella didn't, proving it is always the guy in the relationship that chooses and not the vampire and the "fear to hurt you".

[@emitheorbit1118]

I personally blame that woman for all of this

[@claudiabcarvalho]

Wow, I feel like we watched totally different videos. Because I remember Lindsay mentioning everything that is bad in Twilight, saying they're totally valid reasons to criticize Twilight, but she wanted to make a video about how teenage girls and everything they like are seen as inferior. You see, everything that is bad in Twilight is present in most popular franchises that, of course, appeals to a young male audience. Where I am from, the only criticism I heard about Twilight, besides bad writing, is that Edward and Jacob are gay and the story is dumb and silly. I remember maybe one person pointing out the grooming aspect, and that's it. Twilight as a phenomenon got very little meaningful criticism 15 years ago, while it was the only major franchise targeting young women specifically; I remember it being compared to The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, but I also loved HP at the time and the comparison never made sense to me. Then came Hunger Games, which is much better in every sense (if you ignore the whitewashing in the movies), but I have a feeling that HG owes much of its success to Twilight, because Collins used the romantic triangle trend to write characters and stories that were actually meaningful. But I digress (away too much). I don't think Lindsay was trying to go back in time in her own life to analyze hers and others' misogynistic and homophobic takes that didn't do any good at the time, it literally made it an us vs them dispute; I remember how I didn't want to listen to anyone criticizing Twilight at the time, because it felt like kindergarten all over again, boys making fun of girls playing with dolls and wearing pink, girl stuff is bad, boys are cool, etc. Actually, when Lindsay mentioned the harmful portrait of indigenous people, it was something new to me, because I haven't read the books nor watched the movies after I became an adult and, as much as I wished for her to have talked more about those things, I also understood that was not the point of the video, she was just mentioning those things because she would pass as clueless or bad if she didn't. You know, it's perfectly possible to hate things for the wrong reasons. I started to dislike Twilight as I entered adulthood, but I felt really guilty about it. Lindsay's video actually helped me understand why I was feeling that way, why I felt how I felt in the midst of the Twilightmania, and because of that I could criticize the story without feeling like I was betraying myself somehow. I'm really sorry you felt that way towards the video, and I never rewatched it since, so maybe I'm missing your points.

[@n9na_marie]

i always really appreciate thinkpieces like this on books that i read as a child/teen and i hold that nostalgic love for, as it really does give me more perspective regarding the stories as a whole and helps me deconstruct any negative internalization i may have picked up from those stories without realizing it, and makes me actually /think/ about what I am/have consumed media-wise. thank you for this video, i really enjoyed it!

[@conormurphy7017]

*reads the title* YES. THE CORRECT TAKE.

[@AngryTheatreMaker]

Great video! Ah, memories of Twilight mania--I remember being inspired during my teens to write an angry novel length response to the series that was essentially hate-fic with an additional OC who probably would have been a better fit for the Buffyverse. Fun times!

[@carmenc3224]

THANK YOU!!! The part about handing books and media around is SO important. We can, and should, love things enough to critique them. Enjoyment is not exclusive of criticism ❤

[@ocelotlmunoz2799]

Super appreciate you going into depth about the extreme anti-Native issue Twilight has. Speaking as a Native man, there certainly have been moments in discussions about the series where it's clear that the fantasies of white women are more important than portraying Native people with any humanity or accuracy. It feeds into the idea that Native cultures are props or aesthetics to use as you please in media. I don't begrudge people who still enjoy Twilight, but I do ask that they understand why I and other Native people simply don't want to engage with the series/fandom.

[@nuriahernandez6977]

I am enjoying the exploration of mormonism in relation to twilight. I think it gives insight to why grooming was normalized, why her desires adjust to fit a mormon lifestyle. It's a look into the mormon faith, and why some people have issues with their beliefs. I think lots of cult religions tend to be very traditionally patriarchal and racist. Not that it's a good or bad mormon book, but insightful to me as a former jw.

[@cmacnchz]

Thank you for this video!! A lot of my enjoyment of the twilight saga comes from the movies, which I find to be somewhat camp. But even then, the books and the movies have so much problematic material explicitly in the text, not just subtext, that it is almost baffling how often it gets overlooked. Back in the day I read the author Mark Oshiro's chapter by chapter reviews of the twilight saga on buzznet and I am so glad I was able to read a critical analysis of the saga as a teen, because sometimes it's difficult to articulate why you are feeling a certain way about a piece of media without the language to support your thoughts.

[@DeadAlbinoSheep]

Thank you so much for making this video, and saying all this so much more eloquently than I could've. I also skipped Twilight when it came out for internalized misogyny reasons, but I picked them up at the start of the current "renaissance". I was so disturbed by the overt sexism and racism, I really came in thinking I'd find them kinda trashy but fun and instead I was astonished so many others could tolerate the worst parts. I mean enjoy what you enjoy but like, we deserve better ya'll.

[@no.6377]

I really did love this book as a preteen. Now, as a black woman, I just...the issues are too obvious to me. Smeyers really loves her white skin and virgins...and hates blondes. Rosalie was my favorite character, too! And she could've easily been so much better, were she written by someone that knows how to create depth(if you read Midnight Sun...you'll know) I still like the first movie, though. Feels comfortably nostalgic.

[@nettewilson5926]

It was just such pandering nauseating corney claptrap. “This is the skin of a killer!” After showing off his glittery glory 🙄. “I’ll hurt you!” ‘No you won’t-I trust you!’ sez the “special” woman to the serial abuser/killer🤮

[@AllLogicIsDeadPastMidnight]

I never got into Twilight. I had already read Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles and was just surprised to see its popularity to say it nicely.

[@eamonndeane587]

I have A Discovery of Witches to fill my vampire niche. Have you seen that show?

[@erinrising2799]

my issue is I worked at a theater when the movies came out and the fans wore glitter....glitter the herpes of craft supplies. The theater is closed now, but the glitter remains. Also they were wearing glitter at the midnight showing....vampires according to their own mythos glitter during to the day time.

[@harmonandrews2849]

You’re so right about nothing being earned, that definitely bothered me about Bella when I first read the books aged 11. She gets untold wealth and security, along with immortality (and a so called perfect child who skipped the trickiest child development arc), without actually deserving or working towards it.

[@shayla106]

She also gets to keep Jacob in her life while dating Edward, Jacob exposed the supernatural world to her dad for her and she gets to keep him.

[@kavtoM]

The whole depiction of Quilleutes is a hate crime

[@maccaveen]

I'm at the part of the conclusion where you complimented the Color Pop line, I myself paused the video when you mentioned it to 1st joke about it, and then joke about how that highlighter would be SHINY AF, and then another quip about how maybe I should buy it in that case lol. I just thought it was funny, and relatable

[@Rheojun]

This wasn't the crossover I was expecting, but it's one that I am very hoping it is. Is that's Prof's studio (Tolarian Community College)?!

[@Mimikyu_8]

I love this video so much. Not just bc I didn't love Twilight and I love talking shit about it but because this was a very nuanced and well researched essay and the analysis of the topics weren't reductive. I feel like now that media analysis is a popular genre of content on the internet right now everyone tries to have "takes" on the media they consume. However, my issue is less the criticism of the media in general but rather seeing so many half-hearted, bad faith, reductive analysis people give that show a lack of understanding of analysis, making good arguments, the social issues people say they care about, art, and just in general the humanity and community at the heart of the art we create. Like Twilight and 50 Shades (lol I group my commentary on them since one inspired the other) discourse frustrates me so much (and other genres like anime, BL, etc) bc I want to learn and have so much analytical discussion about these series and their pros and cons but at the same time I have to do so much weird "defending" from misogyny from society in general towards things women and other marginalized genders like and their fandoms, or nowadays people who just make the most low effort reactionary discourse content bc it gets them views. Or people who claim to care about social issues and how they're presented in media but then show they actually have done little to no research or understanding into the nuance surrounding these issues and the people and communities at the heart of it and at best just say something incredibly wrong and stupid and at worst their ideals still perpetuate the same oppressive views they say they oppose. And it's so reductive to often have internet debates through the two extremist lens on the internet of the "fiction = reality" crowd of the bad things in fiction groom you into doing and believing bad things irl so once something is labeled as "problematic" for whatever reason you can never watch or find any value from it ever again bc that's somehow enabling actual harm to real people in society. But also people who oppose this but go too far in acting like oh fictional things don't matter entirely and it's somewhat pointless to take too much of a critical look and unpacking the media bc people are just trying to have fun. At the end of the day I just want people to just have rational open conversations and arguments that come from a place of learning, listening and understanding because we care about art and people rather than being popular on the internet for having a viral take bc the algorithm pushed you to a bunch of people who will agree with you regardless of how actually right or wrong the analysis is.

[@zainmudassir2964]

It's unintentional Mormon propaganda

[@byDEVITA]

Can we talk about feminist propaganda?

[@NuSanniang]

Before I watch, i just gotta say this really feels like a full circle moment. ❤Your Twilight videos are the reason i began following all those years ago ^^

[@DreadPirateHistorian]

All I can here is the discourse on tiktok about the native actor who I think was going to play Jacob. I spent a few years after the movies thinking Taylor Lautner was native too.

[@EverintheRising]

The way I finally thought I could get some peace from Twilight ….and the world has doubled-down on loving it.

[@reigning_deer185]

This is an excellent analysis! Thanks for all your hard work. Enjoyed it so much!

[@PhoebeTheFairy56]

26:30 I guess I would be like the scariest thing ever if I was in the twilight universe (I'm aromantic)

[@inkibusss]

I feel like I'm in Community College again, for some reason. My... this lecture sure is windy! 😆

[@angelaa7388]

A friend of mine told me Bella reminded her of me while we were reading the books as teens. I was offended lol but it gave me a lot to reflect on.

[@Gripen1974]

As middle age white dude, i had 2 things against twilight first it was how it was depicting vampires for me is vampires creatures of horror/monsters so Edward and his fellow vampires felt as washed out vampires and removed everything that make vampires creatures of pure horror. Second more valid reason was how toxic relationship was promoted as something good in the book series. That it was popular with teenage girls made it worse for it normalized toxic relationships. Edward is a fucking creep and monster in a whole other way then traditional vampires.

[@chewiecheshire7973]

We are halfway to 200,000 views. We're gonna get that second video soon!

[@Princess_Weekes]

Sure looks like it xD 🤣

[@chewiecheshire7973]

79k to go.

[@chewiecheshire7973]

@@Princess_Weekes Sorry you didn't get to 200k. I wish I could've done more.

[@ccannon1]

I kind of got the idea that Alice not being able to see the wolves was a genetic adaptation

[@Chowlife]

👏👏👏👏👏👏 What a phenomenal conversation and deep dive. Thank you for this 🥹

[@gabriellearrowood3210]

Have fun reading the part where Edward greases her window so he can sneak into her bedroom more quietly when you read Midnight Sun. *barf* Also, tell the Professor we said hi! I hope this means you'll be on one of his Shuffle Up and Play episodes soon!!!!!

[@aprilchardy1]

The series is thinly veiled prolife bible fanfic. Bella-the 'outsider' looking in on all these different peoples-is super special bc something decided she is, gives birth (no matter that it will cost her her life) to a perfect child who scares authorities, and thus, conflict. Bella is pseudoMary, Renesme is incredibly dull Jesus, and I was bored the whole time.

[@merienkat5524]

Giving this a view and EngagementTM on KZbin after already watching it on Nebula to make Princess read Midnight Sun for charity

[@anacarolinamenezes8912]

About the indigenous people thing: on top of everything, Taylor Lautner is WHITE. They casted a white actor to play an indigenous character too lol

[@fluffybug229]

When I saw The Professor’s house as the set of this video it did legitimately scare me for a second

[@MG-mh8xp]

kinda funny that contrapoints posted a twilight video just over a week after you posted yours

[@VeronikaBenson]

After watching this video, Contrapoints’ video, and CJ the X’s video I feel like I know more about twilight than someone who has read the books and watched the movies.

[@carnespecter]

im native american and while im a different tribe from the quileutes i can never fully forgive twilight like other people are "reclaiming" it because of how meyer treated the quileutes. how she turned them into a fat joke and lie to the point where the tribe literally has a whole section of their website dedicated to combat the misinformation spread about their people because of her. i just cant get past that. i cant stand people who dont think critically about this thanks for the video!

@carnespecter, I hope it’s ok to ask, is there a (noticeable) difference in the treatment (or discrimination) of different Native American tribes? Sorry if it’s a stupid question, I’m from Europe so I don’t know a lot about it. What we tend to learn is about the treatment of Indigenous people as just one category, rather than about different tribes. Have different groups been treated differently in the past and now, is there still an obvious distinction between tribes? Thanks!

[@celestialcowboy8337]

​@Otroskikanal "Indigenous" has never been one category of people. There always have been and always will be obvious distinction between tribes. The problem is that racism depends on flattening those distinctions to make it easier to create a racial hierarchy (i.e. various European ethnic groups merged together in American society to create the near homogenous White identity so they could create a unified front to keep racial minorities from gaining power). It's easier to oppress indigenous peoples if you don't have to consider them as many different nations in themselves with vibrant cultures and strong sociopolitical structures. It's Whiteness vs. The Other.

[@raultrashlord4404]

Don't expect too much from a mormon

[@LeapThroughTheSky]

I'm thinking it's because she's Mormon since there's a whole thing in Mormonism where native Americans are considered to be demons.

[@lmeeken]

I am not Indigenous, but collaborate with Indigenous colleagues and research and teach about Indigenous concerns. Grain of salt and all that. But, in short, in North America/Turtle Island alone there are literally hundreds of Indigenous nations (present tense), spread across an enormous land mass that encountered different colonizers at different points in history, as well as lands with no recognized contemporary tribes because of genocide and displacement, whose original peoples have their own distinct histories with colonization, and distinct present experiences of settler colonialism and racism. Experiences vary, and political attitudes toward colonizers vary, wildly across different Indigenous communities.

[@bigeoof1804]

"Twilight is a deeply sexist book series teetering on wholesale misogyny except it is not competent enough to do so" is a hilariously accurate statement that I wasn't prepared for

[@fossilfighters101]

+

[@Haexxchen]

Just first hand experience of a Mormon society, where women are mothers and homemakers and nothing else really, unless you are horny in your dreams and decide to share that with the world..

[@lukeshioshio]

I feel like... people should just stop using the word "misogyny" at this point. Nah, the female writer isn't a misogynist she's just a cringe lady. Idk why everything has to be "hateful toward a group" like Jesus Christ it's so baseless. The writer is dumb, she doesn't hate her own sex.

[@garynaccarato4606]

You can certainly say that there is no examples of non heterosexual romance or what not and also that theres not really much if any emphasis on the theme of feminism but thats just good old fashioned conservative Christian and or LDS mentality on the part of the author for you.

[@aeolia80]

So I was an active Mormon when the books came out, and in real time there actually was some pushback from leaders of the church because they said the books were giving the women in the church unrealistic expectations of the men in their lives. Stephenie was writing her ideal men based off of the ideals in the religion, yes, but the church leaders and the married middle aged women in the church were realizing those ideals did not occur in real-life 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂, it was actually hilarious seeing it all play out in real time

[@KariIzumi1]

Oooh, this is interesting

[@HeavenlyEchoVirus]

I’ve always suspected it was indeed the fantasy version of the Mormon-values husband. You get the conservatism but also overwhelming romance. Not just the conservatism.

[@LittleMissLion]

​@@HeavenlyEchoVirusI was lucky to find a really great partner. It makes sense that we have both left the church now. We were both very dedicated to our beliefs, but neither of us ever fully fit in. I can see now it's not a bad thing *at all* that my partner just couldn't fit in with the other men.

[@Lei-AICPhD]

Now this is the story I’d love to know!

[@rachelb4339]

As someone who was not Mormon but lived in Salt Lake City at the height of the books it was wild to see my classmates and adult superiors (almost all who were Mormon )go wild for these books and feel incredibly guilty for liking them. I didn’t have the culture context they did to feel the same and mostly felt nonchalantly about the books. It was a wild time.

[@koshetz]

As someone who went from twillight enjoyer to twillight hater to not caring about twillight i think "the book recieved tons of hate because of misogyny" and "the book has tons of conservative narratives and is mediocre" conversations should not exclude each other. Good video, as always.

[@Princess_Weekes]

Exactly and thank you for watching x

[@koshetz]

@@Princess_Weekes you are welcome! Love your work 😍

[@BrokensoulRider]

I... sadly still read the books and watch the movies because, while they *are* bad for people, it's sadly a decent read (at least to me) now and then when I just want to shut off my brain and pretend for a while.

[@LittleMissLion]

​@@Princess_WeekesI'm really glad you said this at the start. I wish society was more comfortable with multiple things being true at once.

[@animeotaku307]

@@BrokensoulRiderNothing wrong with that. I still read this other series even though it has a ton of problems with how it portrays women.

[@EricaCalman]

"The stakes are so low they have apple-bottom jeans and boots with the furs" lol that's an insult so good that I am definitely stealing/propagating it.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

I laughed pretty hard at that line.

[@acecat2798]

Princess cannot just drop that and move on like she didn't just make my world axis shift

[@lafken2]

Can someone explain this joke for the people (me, I'm people) who lack context?

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

@@lafken2 It's from a Flo Rida song from 2007. Called Low.

[@Karin-fj3eu]

For some reason I only got it now

[@lukaj679]

The more I learned about Mormon culture, the more the issues in Twilight made sense

[@Romanticoutlaw]

as someone who grew up in a town where anyone who wasn't a mormon was very quiet about that fact, learning meyer is one was a huge lightbulb moment for me lol. Like "ooooohhhhh that explains a LOT"

[@BabaCorva]

This is it right here.

[@NataliaNNS]

I thought the exact same thing! An essay like this but analyzing the Mormon influences on the story would be really interesting

[@lukaj679]

@@NataliaNNS I have been wishing and dreaming for this exact thing. I need a queer ex Mormon who knows twilight to get on it. I would literally pay for it.

[@Larissa-eo3pt]

@@lukaj679 I am all of the above but I wouldn't want to film it myself. I could totally write it though.

[@aconstantstateofbladerunne5251]

As someone who’s been called a “pick-me” to my face because I don’t love Colleen Hoover or SJM books, I needed this. I think a lot of popular romance writers and readers have internalized that “not everyone can be a slayer” ethos so hard that it seems like some of them see traditional femininity as a prerequisite for feminism. And as much as I’ve loved the new jokes out of the Twilight Renaissance, nothing that did what this series did to Leah Clearwater deserves to even be on the same continent as what’s considered feminist.

[@Romanticoutlaw]

the thing with colleen hoover is that if she'd just frame her stories as psychological horror, she'd be golden. But the full-chested, unironic, un-self-aware embracing of the horror she creates as "romance"... You'd almost have to be a pick-me to *like* her work

[@degeneratemilkhater5696]

Insane to call someone a pick me for not liking SJM books aren't all of her protagonists pick mes?

[@Dragonshade64]

@@degeneratemilkhater5696 Probably, it reads like the same characters and gender essentialism over and over again. However, I got bored about 20% of the way through Empire of Storms and have never read ACoTAR because of it.

[@ladyredl3210]

And it’s also just as sexist, just in the opposite direction. Real women, actual women I mean, are neither a slayer, nor a passive fainting victim. They’re people, with individual strengths and weaknesses.

[@juliarush111]

Fellow non-lover of Colleen Hoover, SJM and Stephanie Meyers here 👋 Leah deserves her own story so bad. But-and I can not stress this enough- not written by Stephanie Meyer. I so desperately want to read the moment that she pulls out of her depression over Sam. Because what he did to her was horrible, but it was again SM putting her Mormon flare on her trauma by having her described as a harpy and feeling like her life was over. I want so bad for her to come to terms with her lycanthropy and moving the f on from toxic Sam and Emily.

[@MMoturi22]

I really remember the "Twilight ruined vampires" stuff like it was yesterday lol. "Why does he sparkle in the sunlight that's so gay." Yes, dude. Because vampire fiction has a storied history of being VERY straight, VERY fixated with traditional masculinity and marketed PRIMARILY to male audiences.

[@ary3901]

If anything, twilight "vampires" are the straightest out there

[@EbonyPenmarks]

We need to cut flack to the legitimate vampire fans though- the problem for vampire fans was not "that's so gay.' It was 'Ah man, these vampires are not nocturnal," thus the rest of the world-building is lost- no nocturnal bisexual vampires going to the opera

[@MMoturi22]

@@ary3901 FAXX

[@MMoturi22]

@@EbonyPenmarks Billy and Mandy's Dracula is the only valid non nocturnal vampire.

[@darkservantofheaven]

Um....Blade? ​@@MMoturi22

[@erinfee5104]

As a lesbian I've always felt a little isolated when Twilight and similar media is defended from the angle of "this thing is by women and FOR women, so if you dislike it you're either a man or a pick-me."

[@PhotonBeast]

Yeah, framing it as either for/against women turns 'women' into a monolith . Like... something can be made by X with the intention of being for X, but that doesn't demand or require all X to approve of it or like it. Like one wouldn't say "This cajun seasoned shrimp platter was made by an American for Americans if yo don't like it, you're anti-American." and expect that to be a strong argument.

[@samf.s.7731]

As whatever the heck I am, genuinely don't know yet, I agree 😅 Definitely spoke to a lot of people, but not me... I did feel isolated, it did feel crappy. That was very rare though, I usually want to enjoy "stuff" and give into the hype rather easily.

[@Waspinmymind]

@@skepticalpanda8862No one’s doing that here bucko.

[@Ash-yu2cj]

Thank you for commenting on this because a lot of media made “for women” is incredibly isolating to me. Media “for women” is often about and for thin, feminine, heterosexual, and ofc, white women.

[@ary3901]

Thank you! I hate that this revival of it and the "oh but they hate everything that's for teenage girls" I WAS a teenage girl when this was popular, I WAS a baby goth obsessed with dark themes and vampires and emo music and angst. And twilight was NOT it, by the author's words it was not it. She didn't do any research on the genre or themes of absolutely anything, she just spat her mormon crap and mixed it with superheroes and the words vampire. My hate comes from the resentment and disappointment that we deserved better material put in the spotlight.

[@harrisonpeterson3733]

It's also about Mormonism. Just straight up Mormonism. The sexism, the racism, the conservative values, it's all from Myers Mormon upbringing. I say this as an ex-mormon, this series is the near perfect encapsulation of everything wrong with that religion.

[@TacticusPrime]

Oh yeah. The entire central metaphor of Edward's vampirism is Mormon/Evangelical sexuality. He wants Bella with insane desperation (men are monsters who inherently want sex all the time) but he has superhuman self-control who would never "take advantage" of her (drink her blood / have sex with her) until they are married.

[@otakuinred]

It's honestly wild from an exmo standpoint. I was never into it when it came out, but looking back so much makes sense. So much.

[@lexa2310]

​@@TacticusPrimeI think you are interpreting too much into that. There are also female vampires, some of which are just as bloodthirsty.

[@lexa2310]

I just read in a different thread that Meyers got flag from her own church for creating unrealistic expectations for mormon women regarding men. 🤣

[@brittanyrevia2542]

It makes sense that the Twilight Renaissance should be followed by the Twilight Enlightenment. Thanks, Princess!

[@zainmudassir2964]

Twilight revolution next

[@dublinjake]

@@zainmudassir2964 But that brings us ever closer to the Twilight Pax Britannica!

[@emilyrln]

The Entwilightenment? 😅

[@nikoking825]

Another troubling trope in these books is the "Indians are Magic," stereotypes. From "Indian Burials Grounds" to legends about Shamans and "spirit journeys" there remains this colonialist tendency to see Native Americans as "magical" or even "quasi mythical" and you know not real cultures that have pushed to near extinction but are still regarded as "exotic" and packaged to titillate the colonizers.

[@derek96720]

Any movie that takes place in North America has to use natives as the magical people, because European spirituality only has historical roots in Europe. They even acknowledge this in the movie, with vampires being based in Rome and the shapeshifters (wolves) being from the US. You're seeing racism where there is really only common sense. Moreover, shapeshifters feature far more prominently in native American mythology than in western European mythology.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

Because when white people are magical it's just Angel's and God. And those aren't Magic. Theyr miracles obviously Completely different lol

[@animeotaku307]

Yup. And to make things worse, the books’ explanations for how vampires work is grounded in “science.” With quotes because it’s very shoddy. Still, the predominantly white group having detailed scientific reasons for how they work while the brown people get “idk it’s just magic” definitely has some implications.

[@TRaWi]

Well, because, they are magic. Or at least they were once. Their spirituality is magick-based, pagan, telluric, polytheist, extra-corporeal, based in souls, totems, elementals, divination and energies; only people who still believe in the Medieval Theory of Witches feel the need to exoticise or not aboriginal religions, or actually any paganism as a fact, as separate, therefore perhaps less valid, than other, more stabilished, religions. Of course indigenous people have the right to follow other, mainstream, churches or to be atheists or gnostics or whatever they wish, but it's only reasonable to suppose that in a group striving to keep their ancient culture, most people will be pagans. Now you may thank your Ranting Witch here.

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

I really do feel like the Twilight books could have worked if they were just more honest and self-aware enough to allow Bella to be a selfish person. She wants to be immortal because she wants to be with her hot vampire husband forever and is willing to cutoff her mortal family who aren't presented as bad people to do it nevermind being willing to run the risk of murdering people in a blood frenzy. One of the reasons why something like Lisa Frankenstein works is because that movie was willing to make its main lead unlikable and explore why she is that way.

[@mmck2565]

They did so that. Thats exactly how 80-95% of all teenagers act and I feel like every decision both Bella and Edwards made was giving teenager with no chill.

[@paulgibbon5991]

For all the books allude to Wuthering Heights, that regularly calls out what a horrible person Heathcliff is, and how destructive his obsession with Cathy is to everyone around them.

[@dinosaur___7209]

well tbh I do think that bella was clearly a parentified child who, while her parents were nice, had parents who weren't competant. Particularly her mom, who she had to mother herself.

[@SecretTwilightGirl]

Totally agree! However, I think Bella really downplays how bad her parents are. She started paying the household bills at the age of ten because Renee kept forgetting to do it and takes it upon herself to cook and clean for her grown father because he can’t even make pasta without burning down the house. If I were Bella, I’d want to abandon my parent-rearing duties and run off with my hot immortal boyfriend too.

[@shayla106]

@@SecretTwilightGirlCharlie survived years taking care of himself. She don’t have to do those things, she did them because that’s what she’s used to doing. Again, her parents were not perfect but they don’t deserve having their daughter just disappear one day.

[@simonetimer5776]

This is a real breath of fresh air! As a black femme, I couldn't articulate the itch seeing every other analysis give Twilight a pass by deeming criticism of it misogynistic while conveniently ignoring the blatant, unforgivable racism (among other things). It made me feel so alienated and like I was losing my mind - I had so many criticisms as someone who read all the books as a teen then-girl. The way white critics were willing to not even consider the racism as more than a "minor problem" really disturbed me. So thank you, thank you for giving a voice to this.

[@DMAnemone]

The thing that annoys me the most about people crying "death of the author," aside from them not understanding the intention of the essay that coined the phrase, is their misunderstanding that it's a critical lens. Just like queer theory or structuralism, it's something we can use when interpreting a text. So if someone is critiquing the author's intent or bias in a text, crying death of the author is just asinine. It's like yelling that the sky is blue during a conversation about mitochondria or something. Like yeah, we know, but that's not what we're talking about right now. It's just ignorant foolishness used in bad faith to shut other people down and make them feel like they won the conversation somehow.

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

Most people who learn about media critique from the internet have nonidea what a "lens" is. They just read a post on Tumblr about symbolism in something they haven't read/watched, and automatically believe it. Someone only having one lens that they analyze media through is a telltale sign that the person grew up just repeating the "correct" opinion on social media. It is the socialization of being a teacher's pet.

[@morlath4767]

The "death of the author" concept - at least in general usage outside - has splintered since that essay. Or rather, it's gotten to the point where most people (myself included) use it more for the idea of ignoring the author's intention/history side of the argument and almost completely ignoring the part about readers bringing their own interpretations into it. In my opinion, the reason why is two fold: 1 - The constant rise of post-work additions via author blogs, interviews, Director's Cuts, etc, has utterly mutated the concept of a story's "Word of God." An author can (and some often do) post hoc rewrite parts of their stories on a whim. There are three obvious examples - JK Rowling's near obsessive releases of world building that can and does influence the way people read the books (Dumbledore is gay, the name's of Harry's Potter grandparents, the names of Hermione's parents); George Martin's similar (albeit smaller) release of information/his opinions in interviews and blogs; and an interview by George Lucas that has effectively locked in the concept of what the Force is to most of the Star Wars fandom despite every piece of media he's had a hand in borderline going against this very same author "intended" interpretation. 2 - Modern criticism and discussions of works often include the "lens" that the second part to The Death of the Author. This video essay itself includes the lines "as black readers, or black people in general..." in reference to Sarah j. Maas' works. Perhaps I'm merely projecting, but I see Death of the Author as being something used by people to fight against retroactive rewriting of a work via Word of God statements. Whether that be from tweets, interviews, blogs, or what have you. That is, if character X is supposed to be a tragic hero, then it's down to the author to at the very least hint at this rather than write them as a total asshole who gets redeemed after the fact when the author doesn't like people attacking said character.

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

@@morlath4767 People like you are proof that Tumblr has destroyed all media. That part where you basically admit that you don't believe in redemption arcs really confirms all my biases.

[@morlath4767]

@@Abcdefg-tf7cu That's an... interesting interpreation of my post.

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

@@morlath4767 Well like you said, the author is dead, so there is no way for me to misinterpret anything you say. I got chills when you started making those coded confessions to your crimes at Unit 731. I don't need to take any of your personal history into account, so you being born after 1945 can't refute my claim that you are a war criminal who conducted human experiments.

[@scott2k23]

Not only the movie themselves was terrible but the casting process was also an issue. Taylor Lautner wasn’t originally casted to play Jacob, a native character another actor was. And that actor was kristopher hyatt he supposed to play Jacob but refused to cut his hair for obvious reasons and they casted a non Native actor.

[@TheMightyPika]

whoah i wasn't aware of that!

[@mossmother64]

It’s also interesting that Jacob’s on-screen/ perceived “glow up” it a result of him cutting his hair. I think you can kind of see what messaging that sends. Especially with his character ending the series becoming “civilized” by this white family. It’s colonization all over again. Terrible :(

[@KariIzumi1]

OH WOW that's so much worse??? Why the hell should he have needed to cut it?! Surely wings still exist in Hollywood, no?

[@shadowmaster1313]

​@mossmother64 Now it's so weird to me that the werewolves cut their hair. Especially since they apparently identify more with being native after the change

[@PetitPoneyDuVercors26]

​@@shadowmaster1313 Yeah that's strange... Nowhere it is explained why Like if the lenght of fur was linked to the length of hair maybe it could explain cutting it during heat waves etc but no need to cut everything anyways and that's a crappy idea to have them cut their hair period

[@lakegroce685]

Justice for Leah Clearwater. She deserved so much better than what she was given in this series. Also I was just reminded of how Sam and Emily got together. She literally didn’t want to hurt her cousin, so she tells him no. He gets so mad at her, he transformers and attacks(giving her that scar) but then he just apologizes once, she forgives him and they get together. Just absolutely disgusting and awful.

[@jlouisa]

I remember and still have this old fanfiction where Leah joins up with the boys from Supernatural and that story was amazing.

[@sp.2778]

THANK YOU!!! Leah should’ve been given her own series/book that would’ve been far more interesting. The only female werewolf in the tribe? I mean come onnn

[@LadyAhro]

There's a few great Leah spitefics I've seen around.

[@katherinealvarez9216]

Yes.

[@lakegroce685]

@@LadyAhro I’m sorry there are Leah spitefics? That sounds amazing

[@benjamintillema3572]

13:05 Just imagine being Kristen Stewart in this situation: running around barefoot in the woods over, and over, and over again. You're trying not to crash into your costar, ignoring the pain in your feet, all while trying to look carefree and happy. Imagine how many times she had to hide behind that tree. They both look so done in this shot, and this is the take that they went with. This is the best they could get.

[@cloeshay87]

I WAS FIXATED ON THAT THANK YOU FOR ALSO NOTICING, it drove me crazy that must have been so painful

[@sindhusekar1918]

To be fair, she is wearing some form of flat footwear. She's not barefoot.

[@michaellauritano5252]

I love the conclusion of this essay. We definitely need to destigmatize healthy media criticism. It’s just another way of engaging with a work that can be just as fulfilling as mindlessly enjoying it. Thanks for another great video!

[@mmck2565]

Un fortunately I don’t think it’ll happen because the misogyny and pick me ness will always be louder. So criticism even the healthy kind is like throwing salt on an opened continuously gouged at wound. It’s the “ only give advice to those who asked you for it” thing. Just my thoughts on why people still don’t care to hear or watch an hour worth of this is why what you like sucks/falls short. I mean who wants to hear that for an hour 😂🤷🏽‍♀️

[@Owesomasaurus]

"The unexamined text is not worth reading" some old guy probably

[@gota7738]

It's definitely something that's not been helped by the role of algorithms. More and more I've clicked on a video, and the creator is regurgitating a simplified argument on a trending topic in hyperbolic terms. It's not that the nuanced thoughts like Princess's videos aren't out there, but for channels prioritising growth; there's an incentive to churn out, alarmist or emotionally heightened arguments that play to one side of a controversy. It's always a relief when you find someone new speaking thoughtfully.

[@wombat4583]

There's a fine line. Media analysis in general is very fulfilling and engaging, but I will admit that as much as I defend and promote it, there is a large sub group of people who will claim media criticism to make personal attacks and harass people, and that's not what criticism is for. It's led to a point where people get attacked for engaging with criticism because readers now assume intent with critique as personal attacks, people still use critique to bash and harass readers, and people critiquing faithfully to the content to pretend everyone is engaging faithfully and with respect.

[@TychoKingdom]

​@K.C-2049 Twilight fans already do this. Not all but enough for this circle jerk yall have going on to be actually insane.

[@GarnetHeartIllustrations]

The Cullens being married but pretending to be siblings gives me the ick big time. It’s indirect incest-y vibes and I just haaaaate that

[@StrawberryCakeStudiosYT]

Like none of them like ever did a fake cute meet? That’s what kinda Lowkey bugged me. Could’ve worn contacts. Would’ve made the story more plausible.

[@jaxj968]

@@StrawberryCakeStudiosYTthey could’ve worn contacts, but they’d have to be replacing them all the time. Bella, when she had to pretend to be human in front of her father in the books, had to wear contacts, and the vampire acid in her body, in her eyes, would burn them up after a bit. i guess it might be easier for them not to spend so much money on contacts, however rich they are.

[@trinaq]

My main problem is that all of the supporting characters come across as far more interesting compared to the three leads, though we barely get a look in at their stories.

[@tariqthomas9090]

Rosalie’s story ALONE deserved her own book😂

[@scott2k23]

Exactly! How the hell did she manage to make the most interesting characters with backgrounds that deserve more exploration. But instead she decided to make the movie surrounding the MOST BORING BLAND WHITE COUPLE TO HIT THE SCREEN.

[@sophiemoya6114]

@@tariqthomas9090 So does Leah Clearwater, probably one of the best characters in this entire franchise!

[@Giraplatina]

Them not getting a lot of screentime is probably why they manage to be more interesting. They have a fun pitch and no details, so we can just imagine the details as being actually well-written

[@lindseystein9676]

Yeah I definitely agree. The vulturi vampires, the not Bella & Edward cullens and the Leah Clearwater could have each been a book on their own. Far more interesting than the main characters

[@worldsbiggestholdthegirlfan]

Watching the What we do in the Shadows and Interview with the vampire tv show made me realize I don’t hate vampire media, I hate straight vampire media

[@vs6584]

True Blood (where the majority of vamps are bi so I wouldn't call it straight necessarily) is heteronormative vampire media done right.

[@10puppyluv]

I was doing a rewatch of Twilight with my friends and I off handedly mentioned that the Quileute Tribe was a real tribe and one of my friends who went through the original twilight popularity with me had absolutely no idea it was a real tribe. IMO this really speaks to how much when this series first came out they wanted to hide the fact that Stephanie used an actual Native American Tribe in her book series

[@dananash4375]

The fact that Ms Stephanie ACTUALLY wrote Jacob imprinting on a NEWBORN baby fresh out the VAJOO is weirder than a MF. ANNNDDD since I didn’t read the 4th book stopped mid 2nd book, if Rosalie couldn’t have a baby, then how come the dead ass Edward could make one. She just really wanted to get a pregnancy in there somewhere.

[@josephdavis9234]

Yep. Canonically, it's only female vampires who are sterile. In addition to Edward having a kid with human Bella, we also learn near the end of the book that there's a vampire named Joham who's just... going around impregnating human women because he apparently thinks vampire/human hybrids are the new master race (I can't think of a better way to word that).

[@maybemablemaples2144]

​@@josephdavis9234 jfc eugenics too?

[@siennaforrester2166]

​@@josephdavis9234 what in the nick cannon-

[@lainiwakura1776]

He imprinted on the egg, actually... which, um, I have no words for.

[@superherofan9425]

@@lainiwakura1776 and this is why I think Stephanie was a coward because if he imprinted on the egg and suddenly had big hots for Bella he also should have imprinted on the sperm and had the hots for Edward too until the honeymoon lol

[@MademoiselleRed1390]

Rosalie being a villanized blonde to brunette Bella, when Meyer herself is a brunette suggest a mysogynistic inferiority complex over blonde women on her part.

[@TychoKingdom]

Stretch! Projection! Rosalie is Blonde because she is the steryotipical all american Blonde bombshell.This why i dont take you twi-haters seriously. Face your internalized Misogyny.

[@sp.2778]

There should definitely be more discussions regarding the racism within the Twilight series, especially the casting for the films. The only two Black men in the entire film series almost killed Bella (classmate with the van, the only Black vampire), all of the men of color in the film are portrayed as sexually aggressive (see: Jacob’s transformation from sweetheart to abusive jerk who always tries to push himself on Bella, black male classmate, black vampire, hell maybe even the whole werewolf tribe once they’re unveiled), the very few women of color in the film are at best treated as background characters and typically accused of being bitches (Leah) and the werewolf tribe is a whole discussion of its own…

[@derek96720]

Right, because there aren't numerous white characters in the film that are aggressive towards Bella. Nope, it's only the non-white characters . . . /s

[@jjj7790]

@@derek96720 You missed the point horribly. The problem isn't that the white characters are never toxic, it's that the nonwhite characters are exclusively toxic or have these really shitty and racist associations. If there are shit roles and a good roles, and all the PoC in your cast are exclusively in the bad roles. Saying "What about white people? There are some white people in bad roles too." isn't a good rebuttal.

[@derek96720]

How are the tribal kids "bad roles"? What about their role is racist?

[@TychoKingdom]

Im pretty sure non of the characters in twilight were supposed to be Black and SM didnt want them to be Black so talk about racism SM is racist but so are the casting crew. Like they are in every other movie.

[@courtneythompson6179]

I remember someone pointing out how in BD Bella thought the Amazon vampires were scary, wild and exotic.

[@animeotaku307]

God, I remember reading Das Mervin’s tear down of the Twilight saga. Made my dislike of the series go from shallow pick-me reasons to “why aren’t people talking about these legitimate issues” dislike. Not hate, not anymore; hate requires energy and care, which I’m too exhausted to muster up for books like these like I used to.

[@Silvermoon424]

Omg Das Mervin's sporking of Twilight is incredible!! I'm totally the same as you, I went from "vampires don't sparkle >:(" to "oh wow, this series actually is pretty creepy and problematic"

[@aconstantstateofbladerunne5251]

That blog was a huge contributing factor to my passion for and ability to so serious in-depth critical analysis. I didn’t like Twilight and similar books from that time to begin with, but the sporking gave me the language and know-how to express why.

[@TheAppocalyptor]

DAS MERVIN IS A LEGEND!

[@KariIzumi1]

True, the idea of vampires merely sparkling in the sun is the absolute ass end least of that series' problems

[@XxBarbyChanxX]

EDIT: Now that I've watched the full video, I'm so happy you addressed all my issues with the series, thank you for another great and thoughtful analysis. Justice for Leah and Rosalie! I'm excited to watch this. Before I do, I wanna say that I think the main issue is that all the valid criticism against Twilight back in the day (calling out the racism, misogyny, abusive relationships, all the bullsh*t with imprinting, lack of any gay vampires, and so on) was buried and it just became "hahaha dumb sparkling vampires".

[@haileyharmon5298]

Facts!

[@Legba85]

“Dumb sparkling vampires.” I started reading Twilight for my niece because she was interested. At first, I noticed the bad writing (god awful actually) and the horrible design of the vampires in it. Then I started noticing the abusive & controlling behavior Edward exhibiting as well as the stalking. I told my niece not to read it. It was a book that should’ve never been made period.

[@corbanekarel3692]

@@Legba85 A lot of people like escaping into a world where they don't have responsibility (because the power is given to someone else). And the fantasy of a man so enamored with you he's getting creepy is fun to some . . . as a FANTASY. My issue with Twilight was never that the tropes in it are abuse, more so that it was heavily advertised and sold to twelve year olds who have no clue what a normal or functional relationship is. Like I've had girls my age explain they got abused and thought it was normal because Twilight. Mind you, in a world where kids are explained what is or isn't abuse to the extent they can understand, this might not have been as much of an issue.

[@korilloyd6004]

One of my parents works getting justice for victims of dv. They used twilight to teach me about red flags and abuse. I can’t enjoy the stories at all to this day

[@Maria-iv8te]

yess thats what i came here to say lol fans know whats wrong with twilight but haters only know about the romantic aspects which is the least troubling thing about it

[@StormTheeOmega]

Coming from a literal twi-hard(blk gay one)I love when people criticize the books,cuz wdym we could’ve had a diverse set of cullens,wdym vampires eventually loose all there melanin over time? Wdym there aren’t any African racially black covens? Something ain’t adding up.

[@satellitemind333]

Oh thank God. I've been so annoyed by how people have been handwaving the genuine critiques about this series and doing very lazy "You're Wrong About Twilight" analyses. I *was* a teen girl who enjoyed teen girl stuff when Twilight came out and these books got under my skin at the time for the exact same reason that my school's sexist abstinence-only speaker infuriated me (among other issues in the series). Enjoy the books! I don't care! But let's not play games and pretend there aren't actual problems that people were pointing out at the time!

[@RomaniScientist]

As a mixed Indigenous femme presenting kid, I was mocked endlessly for my black curly hair. I was called medusa, sticks, dirty, etc. But the moment a new white girl showed up to school with dark brown hair those same kids fawned over her. So I cackled at your line about a white girl with dark hair 😂 so painfully accurate

[@derek96720]

Are you conventionally attractive? And I don't mean your skin color.

[@perrisavallon5170]

I've found that Twilight fans are waaaay better at criticizing Twilight than the weird Twilight hate mob from back in the day. Most of the Twilight fans I interact with are always quick to jump on the confederate vampire plotline, the way the Quileutes are written, the way the Quileutes are treated behind the scenes, the age gap, the Renesmee, everything. But the people who made it their whole personality to hate Twilight were always just like "sparkly vampires gay lmao"

[@lookitskatiex]

The confederate thing kills me to this day. Like… she couldn’t have made him a union soldier? Maybe that he was drafted and didn’t want to participate if he was in the confederate army? Or even if he was just ashamed of it later? It’s too much to ask for I guess. Ugh. Even tvd had the sense to at least make Damon a deserter, jfc.

[@claudiabcarvalho]

​@@lookitskatiex to be fair, the Salvatore are actual Italians in the books, but I think they took everything to the US in order to save costs.

[@shadowmaster1313]

​@@lookitskatiexapparently where she had him stationed he totally could have been union too, because she was a bad researcher

[@dmb1745]

"But the people who made it their whole personality to hate Twilight were always just like "sparkly vampires gay lmao" That's because the vast majority of Twilight hate back then came from males who had never read the books or even watched the movies. They just hated Twilight because women liked it (which also caused the Justin Bieber hate back then) and, like you said, "sparkly vampires gay". I think that's why the "Twilight hate isn't misogynistic" take just misses the mark. There are valid criticisms of Twilight, and I agree that on the whole it is a bad series, is racist and glorifies abusive relationships. However, none of the males criticising the series actually know these things because they never bothered to watch the films.

[@Shinigami41395]

@@dmb1745 "none of the males criticising the series actually know these things because they never bothered to watch the films." That is blatantly false. There are a lot of men who have read all the books and/or watched all the movies so that they could give informed reviews. Just a quick search on KZbin proves that.

[@stampede274]

Stephanie Meyer's biggest mistake was not keeping going. After New Moon Bella should've fallen in love with a gill man, a Frankenstein, a mummy... just tedious mopey mormoncore romancing her way through the entire universal monster catalog and ending up with the Phantom of the Opera or something.

[@cindys9491]

Why not Cthulhu lol

[@venuslove-i1v]

@@cindys9491 That's too on the racist nose ha ha

[@catsmom129]

Maybe a Vogon could read her some romantic poetry

[@natapie8702]

Thank you for pointing out how Bella doesnt have to raise Renesmee since shes a superchild - i recently rewatched Breaking Dawn 2 after YEARS and I noticed how much of a NOT child Renesmee is. They read poetry to her before bed. She plays the piano perfectly. She is QUIET. She never cries, shes never angry. That really really unsettled me since it seems like shes the ideal child to someone who never wants to deal with babies and toddlers and the messy drooly age Bella was talking about in the books. Like shes wise beyond her age, a tiny adult. I hate that SO so much, she feels like a horror film villain tbh lol

[@maybemablemaples2144]

It's the perfect Mormon child.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

I can see why that would be terrifying, but I'd love to be able to skip my kids baby phase and get right to the part where we can atleast talk lol

[@vs6584]

It's funny because an exact similar child from Dune, Alia Atreides, is called 'monstrosity' by other characters in the book for these very same reasons.

[@vs6584]

As Contrapoints said in her latest video, Renesmee was never meant to be a child but a second self-insert for Meyer as she wanted to get with both Edward AND Jacob, and in Mormonism, poly centered around the woman isn't an option.

[@Karin-fj3eu]

​@@vs6584oof

[@Jasmine-dd2ke]

I never even noticed how vain and materialistic Alice is until you pointed it out. It's easy to miss because we're constantly being hit over the head with hearing how vain Rosalie is. I think why Meyer finds Alice's preoccupation with looks more "acceptable" is because it's rarely self-directed. She's the Best Friend who gets to doll up the pretty-but-doesn't-know-it main character rather than think of herself as beautiful, like Rosalie does. Meyer accidentally wrote a really interesting allegory for colonial power inflicts harm on the native people of a land and just decided to lean into it...bruh. I like the through-line you drew between Twilight and how we failed to unpack it's problematic elements a long time ago and the surge of romantasy fiction we're seeing on BookTok today. This was a great video!