Horizontal Closed Loop System - Ultra Geothermal, Inc. - Barrington, NH

[@mikenoble8517]

lOTS OF THINGS TO CONSIDER. I'd cover the pipes with sand and install one continuous loop. We have had no issues, install date 2011. Make sure you get a 50-year ground loop/ foundation penetrations warranty and read the fine print. Get a quote for both vertical and horizontal. Estimates can go to hell if ledge becomes a major issue. Sign a contract with the provision to cancel if the ground loop exceeds a certain percentage of the total system cost. Our system is vertical and has paid itself off in energy savings.

[@dwaynedove9645]

Right ? Years ago I helped to bore underground for the (New) Fiber optic. I think you could bore the holes cheaper and just dig on the loop part.

[@adamcarbone4626]

Why use straight pipe, and not a slinky system reducing the space required?

[@jaxturner7288]

That decision is made considering weather you have the extra space available to do long straights, or the extra money for the additional pipe required for a slinky type layout.

[@suespony]

Excellent video, ic it's rather old video, but very nice. Do you know of anyone in the fingerlakes ny area that would have the same knowledge and know how to do this? Very interested in having this done

[@robertmurdoch]

I would love to help

[@perry9492]

Why does it take so much tubing?

[@Berkeloid0]

The more surface area that is in contact with the ground, the more thermal energy can be transferred. More tubing increases the surface area. Same reason why a radiator in a car is made of lots of tiny long tubes instead of one big short tube.

[@perry9492]

@@Berkeloid0 It seems excessive though. I think maybe something more efficient at heat transfer than PEX tubing would be a good idea.

[@Berkeloid0]

@@perry9492 More efficient tubing would add a lot of cost to the project and would actually reduce performance. You want to get the cold liquid in the tubing to warm up as it moves through the ground, so that increase in temperature can be moved indoors. If you used super efficient tubing, all the heat would be picked up at the start of the tube and then the rest of the tube would be the same temperature as the ground around it, and so that part of the tubing would not contribute any additional heat to the system. It would work the same as running a very short underground pipe, only allowing you to raise the indoor temperature by a fraction of a degree above the outdoor temperature. By having less efficient tubing, the whole length of the pipe can be used to extract heat from the ground, and only a small amount of heat is removed along the entire length of the pipe. This very small cooling of the ground around the tubing disperses easily, meaning the heat you can draw indoors is almost limitless. But if you use a short pipe, or super efficient tubing, then you will just freeze the ground around the start of the pipe and then there will be no more heat to draw in from the ground and the heat pump will stop producing any warmth, and it will take a lot longer for that frozen area to warm up enough for the heat pump to work again. Perhaps it's easier to think of it this way. It's very hard to heat 1 ft of underground pipe by 30 degrees, but it's very easy to heat 300 ft of pipe by 0.1 degrees, and the end result is the same amount of thermal energy transferred. So the longer the pipe, the smaller the temperature difference needs to be in order to extract usable heat (assuming of course the material is inefficient enough that the full length of the pipe is used and none of it is wasted).

[@haylspa]

@@Berkeloid0 that is actually false, your actually talking about reducing performance and counting it more efficient, in explanation that also sounds like your trying to explain physics but missed the basics class! if they ran say copper the cost would sky rocket yes!! but thermal conductivity would also be way more efficient and over all there system would work better! offsetting thermal equalization is simply the same reason radiators have so many tubes and fins, it's also why expanding surface area is so important in this kind of system and every other type of thermally conducting unit known, honestly no offence meant but please actually study the subject your trying to explain... reading this shows you have no education in thermal dynamics, but your trying to explain it as if you knew what your talking about

[@Berkeloid0]

@@haylspa If you're going to spend half your comment insulting me, please at least put the effort in to explain where my claims are wrong and why. Copper is more efficient at thermal transfer yes, but when you want to evenly distribute thermal energy across a large area, using something that is too thermally efficient will result in an uneven distribution as the majority of the energy will be transferred at the start of the pipe, and there will be much less left at the end. I never said using plastic over copper would be more efficient, just that the performance wouldn't be as badly affected as you might imagine. If this is incorrect, then please explain why as carrying on about me having "no education" doesn't help anyone.

[@Polyester_Avalanche]

Can you drive over the top once it's buried? Or would that damage the tubes?

[@KevinPolin]

You can drive over it.

[@RyanJensenEE]

I can't believe this guy buried his manifold. When that starts leaking the home owners are going to be very mad. This person is clearly not qualified to be managing a ground source heat pump project.

[@haylspa]

better to drill strait holes, at 40ft deep 5ft staggered apart per loop and connecting loops in a 6ft trench, that would get you 640ft (not counting the connecting pieces, along with far better cooling and temperature stability in a 20sft plot, honestly this video is showing complete impractical solution, surely impractical for a normal home owner and certainly telling others they have to pay way more out for a premade system and hired crew and heavy equipment rentals then they actually need! No Thank You!!!!

[@PeterSmith-or3pq]

Cost prohibited. Ive seen it ,

[@chuckbelliveau2543]

Anyone who’s watching this video do not listen to what these people are telling you because if you dig trenches that big for whatever reason I have no idea and waste all that money moving that kind of dirt for a system like that it would put you in the poorhouse throw this all out the window it’s absolutely 100% wrong and you can call me if you want to wrong wrong wrong it’s not how you should do it to save money the whole purpose is

[@chrisfoxwell4128]

I can listen up this guy on the video or the guy that doesn't use punctuation or actually explain anything.

[@robvoyles]

if everyone goes to Geo and the power company sells less power, then they have to raise the rates so you save nothing.

[@adamcarbone4626]

you offset with solar ;)

[@caitoxose]

I wonder why the need to excavate such huge trenches for just a few thin pipes. Would it not be better to open thinner, deeper trenches instead?

[@nieugietypret5168]

generally, well-drilling is more expensive than flat collector

[@georgehofgren6123]

Because when you get below 6-7 feet, typically you will encounter ledge (rock) which is significantly more difficult to excavate over a large area ~

[@davidjackowski4336]

how is that delta T holding up....

[@michaelwerbick]

should have coiled the loops to and create 100's of more ft of exchange

[@fustyg]

@john lovering -- I´m thinking of a geothermal solution for my cabin in Vermont. Small footprint 300 square feet. Any recommendations?

[@pablopicaro7649]

2023 now, these days 'slinky' loops would be put into the trench otherwise not much difference

[@davedutile6317]

As a native that has relocated to SC there is no way the cost of trenching. Was less than 8-10k. How much guys?

[@brianmartin9469]

Good job. We do it very similar but I learned a lot from this. I’m learning there’s lots of different ways to do this and even more opinions. We usually do 5-6 foot trenches, 5 feet wide and 300 feet long then we bury two ton of pipe in each of those trenches. We do it differently depending on the room we have to work with.

[@georgehofgren6123]

I'm up in Central Maine. Can an equivalent horizontal system work here, or is drilling instead necessary?

[@redneckways1617]

Only a Shiterlet?..must not be very strong..🤣 But seriously..the one string off of the end of the manifolds will have more flow than the other four...manifold needs to be set up differently

[@shockcoach]

Do you have issues with air lock?

[@occultbooks1176]

Hi I live in New Hampshire and was wondering if I have a swamp Ash area that's probably 100 yards by 75 yards wide but a hundred and fifty yards from my house if it's possible to put a horizontal Loop to heat a 4000 square foot house? If I dig this matter of inches into the ground I get water and it's right directly next to a brook. Would appreciate any ideas if this would work

[@ipeeinmysinkimafraidtocome7127]

i heard you put the loop on the water

[@elmerwaltermeyer8340]

@@ipeeinmysinkimafraidtocome7127 Why dont you drink it.

[@PeterSmith-or3pq]

Rather use gas than electricity 10kw bank. On the degree days

[@jimhendrix7776]

Why would you put the manifolds in the ground vs basememt? Makes no sense to me why one would do it the way you did? Those clamps r inevitably going to rust out leading to a potential leak in the lines!!!! I know nothing regarding to geothermal, just researching it now to potentially put one in, and that makes absolutely no sense nor would i do that way! I ended video early as i question anything further u may do

[@KevinPolin]

The manifolds were copper and plastic, copper doesnt rust.

[@hickorydragon8114]

Manifold outside so you don't have to make as many penetrations through the building envelope.

[@colepetro2279]

what kind of pipe do you use? Im assuming its not pex, but something similar?...

[@TheMidwestGator]

HDPE SDR11

[@Jamie-jd4bu]

Looks very interesting

[@oldmanjimh3165]

I see a lot of rock. How do you protect the lines?

[@Kilmar4999]

Different lines have different strengths. Typically what I’ve read you want to remove all rock away from the pipes. Not only because of punctures but because of the heat absorption around the pipe.

[@wthomas7955]

@@Kilmar4999 So if you have rocky soil should you import dirt for the immediate area of the pipes? As in a layer of clean fill, pipe, and another layer of fill...?

[@Kilmar4999]

@@wthomas7955 if it’s extremely rocky I believe that would be your best bet from the research I’ve done. (Thermal heat transfer will be optional) There are rating on the piping that should tell you the thickness. (Thicker is better for protection against puncture)

[@wthomas7955]

@@Kilmar4999 Okay, thanks. I didn't know there were various wall thicknesses for the tubing. I wonder if that would affect conductivity much...? Or is it simply a matter of pricing...? I suppose it wouldn't be too difficult to insure that the pipes were clear of rocks. In your experience are the folks that sell the heat pumps the ones who design the system based on a floor plan and heating load? Do you supply them with information as to climate conditions and soil composition so they can determine things like length, OD, spacing and depth regarding the tubing? Do they actually have a guy engineering each system or is it pretty much formulaic?

[@Kilmar4999]

@@wthomas7955 I have 0 experience with any of it in person. I’ve just recently done a lot of research on the topic. You can get a soil chart for thermal conductivity to give you an idea to what would be best. If you want tomorrow I can send you some websites that give you a great break down of what would be best for you in your situation. As for the thicknesses of the tubing affecting thermal conductivity I’m honestly not sure.

[@padraichigg1362]

Need to dig deep in America if you want the cooling part during hot weather!

[@winnipegnick]

I'm wondering if you have to worry about tree roots at the 6 foot level?

[@KevinPolin]

well I ddint see any trees in the geothermal field. I definitely wouldnt plant any trees there with large root structures.

[@422904]

Would it help to put foam on top of the loops?

[@wthomas7955]

That would insulate the pipes from the earth. The idea is to get good thermal conductivity with the dirt.

[@RyanJensenEE]

That would reduce the capacity of your system by about 50%. It do the opposite of help.

[@422904]

No…. Not for cooling the home but heating… reducing the freezing depth…. During winter… by putting foam on top you would not have to dig the lines as deep…

[@422904]

Say a foot below the ground for the foam and the line at 3ft

[@wthomas7955]

@@422904 You're missing the point about how geothermal heating works.

[@roberthothan227]

12:51. The generator needed to activate the geo system heating needs to be VERY LARGE. Why ? If a geothermal system is free energy from the earth why do we need so much electric during a power outage ?

[@conradcoolerfiend]

geothermal isnt "free". you need electricity to run it.

[@angrywhistlingcock5209]

Why don't you coil it for more surface area? You could probably dig much shorter trenches.

[@KevinPolin]

its more efficient. The more surface area that you have. Less contact with the other pipes the better.

[@jrmorrissey207]

Straight pipe also flows much better at equal diameters to a slinky setup. You end up using less energy to run the pumps, and reduce potential ground saturation when running it hard in extreme temps on either side of the seasons. Straight is the way to go if you can afford the excavation and have the room to do it. Slinky works fine in the right soil conditions and at the right depth. There's a lot of variables, but it's not rocket science. There are just a variety of things that need to be accounted for, including the house condition that this system is supporting.

[@danhillman4523]

LOL. Way too much digging.

[@farmerdoc2924]

Would using a "slinky" type PVC coil allow shorter or fewer trenches?

[@PeterSmith-or3pq]

Not recommended as the permafrost builds too quick

[@rogerpartington8858]

this is solar.. not geothermal

[@PeterSmith-or3pq]

Yes. Very close to, due the frost depths, vertical at 300 ft down would be the acutal temp of dirt

[@ipeeinmysinkimafraidtocome7127]

nice work

[@elmerwaltermeyer8340]

Why dont you drink it.