Cheap Geo Thermal Air Conditioning

Geo Thermal air conditioning system you can install for about $1,000 that only uses about 100 watts to operate 24/7 cooling your house, garage or greenhouse.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:35 Cooling in High Humidity
03:26 Equipement List
06:12 Excavation
07:30 Freezing Water
08:42 Microbes
10:10 Ground Temperatures
11:42 Comparing Units
13:01 Summary
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[@oldgoat8861]

My Dad ran a closed loop system back in the mid 1970's ...same as yours. He used 2-aluminum car radiators stacked back to back zip tied, with connector hoses. To presure our closed loop line we used a hot water base board pump. He used a thermostat switch that powered a AC-fan and was the same switch that powered the pump. He used RV (pink) fluid for the lines. Later he put a line (burper), basically to get rid of air in the lines, but really didn't need to do that. We were fortunate enough that we had our own backhoe to lay our lines. I cut 4 ditches @ 5' × 16" × 100' runs and we sand bedded the bottom of the trenches...laid a DOUBLE line (4 loops) and sand bedded again. Than backfield dirt to about 12" from the top. AGAIN sand bedded about 4"deep...ran a second DOUBLE LINE (4loops), sand on top and about 6" of topsoil. SO HE MADE A STACKED.....AC/HEATER BED.AC on the bottom, heat on the top lines. Simply attached those lines to a 2 seperate-4 way splitter and used a BALL VALVE TO SEPERATE THE UPPER AND LOWER CLOSED SYSTEMS. The splitters joined to a single line and ran to the line circulator pump....and a single line ran from there to the radiator. A return back line from the radiator was to a 2-way splitter controlled by a single ball valve. During the summer rotate 2 ball calves one direction for AC/bottom lines.......during winter rotate both ball valves the opposite direction for heat/top lines. WE STILL USE THE VERY SAME SYSTEM TO THIS DAY.......ONLY THING REPLACED was 2 circulator pumps over the pass 45yrs. Our hose bed at the bottom has spring water feeding to it. On AC our house will drop to 61-62°F and freeze you to death if left on constantly (so the themastat switch) was a must. Heating....can't say it's the best...helps in early spring but not as a primary source up here in the North Country. So the system turned into TOP LINES AS A PRECOOL and BOTTOM LINES AS THE COOLER....FOR A.C. ONLY !! THE BEST A.C. EVER....SUPER CHEAP....AND CAN BE RUN ON DC SOLAR POWER 24/7

[@SimpleTek]

That's awesome! Thank you for sharing!

[@curtb.]

Wow, thanks so much for the detail!

[@daryllucero2349]

@Old Goat I am currently designing a house and solar system for an off-grid house that i am building. Would you be willing to help me a simple design to be able to create a system, such as what you’re talking about?

[@chrisplant1418]

Wouldn't the sand act as an insulator and reduce the efficiency of the system? I am not asking to nit pick just something that had me wondering.

[@SimpleTek]

@@chrisplant1418 it allows heat to move slowly through it so it stores heat well. it's not the most efficient to load but if the input is free,,,,

[@arthurperrea3714]

It works I tested mine that I put in late last fall. 1inch x 400ft , 160 psi here in upstate Burke NY . It was 90 degrees today It was 60 degrees in my insulated wood shop. I will be put another loop in for my home

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for your comment!!!

[@Greenr0]

how big is your workshop? Does it have condensation issue?

[@arthurperrea3714]

Helen it's 520 sg ft and well insulated except for the floor it still working well but I thinking with are current weather a dehumidifier might make it feel a little better. It about 70 degrees in my shop but been 8o to 90 degrees outside .seems to kept at least 10 degrees to 30 degrees depending I'm guessing on the humidity. It's a keeper at 24/7 for around $ 10 per month. Still plan on putting one in house as soon as I can find time .lol

[@Greenr0]

@@arthurperrea3714 Great. Thank you for the info. How deep did you put the water line?

[@arthurperrea3714]

10 ft and use the same trench to go back and forth .try to bed them in rock free soil or sand a few inches as you dig in case of a cave in I made a bigger hole like 6 ft round at the end this way you can just use a couple to tie your ends together and make a large loop 😉

[@raydreamer7566]

I have to tell you and everyone reading this - apply this knowledge to your next digging project - such as your house being built new or any excavation you have. The biggest problem is most people will not plan ahead enough to simplify there life in the new future . Great video and very inspirational .

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you!

[@beefybuttercup2978]

*Thier

[@EdsPlace]

How so might you? Could we run loops under an entire basement slab?

[@trainwreck420ish]

​@EdsPlace yea, if you're pouring a new slab. I really wouldn't do that, unless you don't have a yard or even an easement. You would be better off digging in a part of the yard( call for lines first) and backfilling. On the off- hand chance you have to replace your lines. You really don't want to have to demo the slab and repour cement. Especially if it's reinforced definitely not of its under tension.

[@littlechestnutorchard]

I built one about 20 years ago and still working. Just recently replaced the circulation pump with a more efficient Grandfos circulation pump and a new radiator . Also I have another loop away from the first one and I am dumping heat into the ground in summer with a passive evacuated solar panel to warm my workshop in winter ( obviously changing the passive solar panel with a radiator . It work brilliantly and very cheap to run .

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you too much for the comment! Cheers from Manitoba, Canada

[@ggstorm9777]

Wow 👍👍

[@dougatfuto5]

what size of Grandfos circulating pump did you need?

[@littlechestnutorchard]

@@dougatfuto5 I fit (GRUNDFOS 95047567 ALPHA2 L 15-50 130 PUMP) It is common central heating circulation pump in Europe, power consumption is very important in my situation and this pump fits the bill. Also there are couple of settings you can play with. There are powerful ones with higher flow rate but this is just what i need.

[@calysagora3615]

@@littlechestnutorchard Any ideas on how to estimate what I need? What climate are you in?

[@PWN_Nation]

Great solution! Some additional info: 1) ALWAYS call for utility locator before digging! (Blue Stake or dial 811 in US). 2) You may want to also add a dehumidifier. Conventional AC units dry the air when cooling it. You may want to extract some of the interior air moisture, especially during late summer. 3) Glycol-based coolants can prevent corrosion in the radiator. Water does not. Something to consider. 4) The radiator (especially if the air isn't dry) can produce moisture. Think of a cold can of beer on a hot summer day. Consider including a pan to catch moisture under the radiator and draining it outside.

[@SimpleTek]

Great Tips!

[@timm.6391]

If using only water, use distilled water, for less chance of scaling or other negative effects of raw or chemical treated water.

[@ajarivas72]

@@SimpleTek your channel has motivated me to implement your great ideas.

[@SimpleTek]

@@ajarivas72 thank you! Good luck with your project

[@danyamskoy]

There is no need for separate dehumidifier, because this sistem acts like conventional AC. You only need to extract water, that will condense on the radiator... And it will))

[@tomhenderson1792]

Needs less emotional selling and considerably more technical how-to, specifically linear feet of cooling tube per cubic foot of conditioned space requirements

[@SimpleTek]

selling?

[@jackson8085]

There are too many variables, size of radiator, temp of incoming water, fan cfm, this is something you need to experiment with.

[@sixfive555]

It's okay if you don't understand, most everyone won't do it anyway

[@carolhewett3756]

He's wasted no words. He just has an expressive way of speaking. I'm focused on the info and grateful that he produced the video.

[@hkray]

@@greggbrady5728 I thought it was one of the best simply how-to-geothermal videos on a simple system. Yes, all those variables you mentioned can matter - except the whining about pictures. but in the end If you have earth to dig and you run this system you will have valuable energy reduction/ cost savings. If you want to know about the plastic conductivity or thermal mass or whatever you wrote then that is fine but I don't see any sales pitch here. I just see a conservative $1000 estimate that seems even cheaper than $600 if you find deals. I assume from your complaint that you must be a geothermal installer and don't like the idea that it is way cheaper than people have to pay for a typical system. Kind of like plumbers are not happy now that we have pex-tube and shark bite joints. Who needs to pay him 200$ per hour when you can do it yourself. But yes your questions are relevant, and it would be a good video to make or you could do the research and forward to Simple Tek to make. I mean how long to know the conductivity of water pipe if you are in the business. Do you know offhand? I assume near the same as the plastic tubes used for air geothermal projects And he did mention he was using a 3/4 tube, although you could use a 1 " or 1 1/2 " tube. YOu could do the math for that problem too, while you are researching the conductivity of the underground water pipe....

[@jackgood8792]

In the interest of longevity of a water bases system - it's worth mentioning galvanic corrosion, in short - avoid using dissimilar metals in the loop ( talking anything in the radiator, pump, potentially metal tube fittings ) don't mix copper, aluminium for example, one type of metal only.

[@SimpleTek]

Well said

[@--harry_]

Also think, EPA when it comes to leaks... So choose something that won't devastate the water table when it leaks. Yes, it is made to last but it's made in a 3rd country where price is more important than quality. I am seeing pex fittings only last 10 years.

[@pinerock9668]

@@--harry_ that's why it's important to not have any connection under ground. Same with floor heat lines, it's not worth the risk of a leak.

[@esthersmith3341]

It's windshield washer fluid. Where does it go when you wash your windshield with it? The ground water perhaps?

[@jacoberinc]

@@--harry_ That is something important to think about. Perhaps a mixture of deionized water and propylene glycol(food grade), it greatly lowers the freezing temperature of the water and also shouldn't leave residue in the pipes.

[@robertqueberg4612]

My wife and I had a contractor install a Water Furnace heat pump in our home, about 25 years ago. It is a great system. What you are presenting is, as you have said quite a bit cheaper, and nearly as good for the cooling season. I will add a couple cautions before you get started. If you have a trench that is more than four feet deep, stay out of the thing. If you are in the trench, and a wall caves in on you at belly button height, you can suffocate with your head out in the sunshine, as you will not be able to inhale. Crazy isn’t it. Ask a pipe layer. Another thing to be cautious of is draining the condensate away from the radiator, and to the ground outside. Does anyone remember reading about “Legionnaires Disease”? The standing water can feed treacherous molds, which when combined with the fan, can kill your family.

[@SimpleTek]

Good advice

[@stormthrush37]

I feel compelled to point out that a system like this doesn't even need to completely cool or heat an area all on its own. Even if it only reduces demand for traditional heating or cooling systems, that's worth a lot, especially over the many years this system will continue working. It also occurs to me you could integrate such a system with some sort of thermal battery to "save up" the thermal energy produced during times when you don't immediately need it. For example, you don't need as much if any cooling from this system at night during summer, but with a thermal battery of some kind you could be saving up that extra cold for use during times of peak need during the day.

[@SimpleTek]

fantastic point!!!!!!!

[@davefroman4700]

You do not store cold energy. You create it by removing heat energy. Every time that you are running this system for cooling you are depositing heat energy underground for later use. In the winter time the most effective way to operate a system like this is having two set points for engagement. If you have it set to come one and keep the green house below 68F in the winter during the day you are actually storing excess energy under ground to heat the green house in the evening when the temperature hits 40F and it would engage again. And btw if you have the lines coming up in the middle of the greenhouse I doubt they would ever freeze as long as its pumping the water around. Its the fan that you want to control.

[@shaneduffy4853]

Ice batteries - few companies have gone out of business trying to sell them

[@davefroman4700]

@@shaneduffy4853 yeah, and very few people went bankrupt being wheelrights and ferriers until the automobile showed up...

[@Aranore]

If you incorporate pcms that could be very beneficial, or, a water tank. Most geothermal heat pump systems actually use water tanks as a buffer and a hot water tank for heating.

[@mountainman4410]

I was days away from starting an install of the other system you described. I was going crazy trying to figure out solutions to all the problems you mentioned in this video. I stalled on the project until I could figure them all out. I'm so happy I ran across this video! This solves ALL the problems! Thank you so much. I will be watching all your videos from here on out. I have an off grid homestead in the TN mountains. I love the lifestyle, and am always on the look out for new projects that will make life more comfortable.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you soo much for the kind words!

[@dunexapa1016]

Good decisions! I have been off grid since 2010 and this system is compatible in energy consumption with a PV system. Directly cooling with PV and Peltier devices are a VERY efficient option as well

[@dirkjackson8939]

Howdy Mountain Man 4410. I like your comment. I also have land in the TN mountains (5 acres) and will be starting off grid projects in the near future. Would you mind if I pick your brain sometime for ideas? I'm curious on what you have done so far and what you plan to do. Thanks!

[@thefootchair7071]

I saw this last year and loved it. I did all this and became stuck with all the connections inside the greenhouse. I was getting a lot of leaking and so ended up using changing from the traditional pvc connectors and pvc glue etc, to using a garden hose connection system. I connected a garden hose from the radiator (there are adaptors to go from pvc threads to garden hose threads) to a garden hose connection and used garden hoses between the pump, the radiator, the tubing system etc. It doesn't leak and it is amazing. Works great. Thank you.

[@SimpleTek]

Sooo happy it worked for you!

[@MrKaelis]

Holy hell, what a useful video! I'm kind of ashamed to say that I never thought of this as a possibility for year-round heating and cooling after reading an article about using geothermal for in-floor heating.

[@SimpleTek]

Glad it was helpful!

[@rodrigosouto9502]

That's a very sustainable solution! People doing videos about homesteading should know about this system.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you!

[@PankajDoharey]

Only with places that are sitting on a permafrost like canada this wont work in Florida , Texas or Nevada. Where Air Conditioning is actually required.

[@SimpleTek]

@@PankajDoharey Canada has permafrost? I've lived in Canada all my life and never once have I seen permafrost and I've been to all provinces

[@BrijrajJadeja007]

@@SimpleTek Can you tell me how will it remove humidity without a compressor?

[@rickbeline354]

@@PankajDoharey I disagree. I live in SE Louisiana, and did a 3 loop 100' vertical system (for a 3 ton a/c) to provide a cooling source for the a/c system. Worked great for 10 years with minimal more work, until a house fire (from other causes.) That was 30 years ago. I have been thinking about re-doing it in a horizontal set of loops, but have not done it yet. Water table here is only a couple of feet down, unless it rains! Ground temp. ranges from about 70+*f at 6' down to in the mid 50s (constant) below about 30'. A closed loop (ECGW [Earth Coupled Ground Water] system using copper, either using a water based coolant or actually running the freon coolant through the pipe, will reduce the electric bill for air conditioning somewhat.

[@scottwendt9575]

One thing you will want to do if you are using washer fluid or antifreeze is to pay close attention to the amount in your system. If you suddenly are adding a jug or two a month, you probably have a leak and that could contaminate groundwater which depending on your soil and topography could kill gardens, fruit trees and even threaten wells used for drinking water. My parents have a fluid level monitor on their “heat pump” for exactly this reason. Their loops are just below the frost line, but even so, Code required it because of the sandy soil and a shallow water table that is both depended on for drinking water and interconnected with all the local lakes.

[@lyleseaman4414]

probably safer to use ethanol. First, build a still...

[@idahogreen2885]

Get bent you doomcryer

[@claytonjames4779]

And if there's a leak exactly what do you do? If you dig up the system you're going to probably break it and spill all of that fluid out in the ground.

[@scottwendt9575]

My parents are required to hire a licensed and bonded company to fix any leaks. The first thing they will do is use a vacuum pump to suck out the system to prevent any additional spillage. Digging will be by hand and yes, it is possible the entire system may need to be dug up. These are all costs the environmental folks who are pushing to “replace fossil fuels” with heat pumps never talk about.

[@claytonjames4779]

@@scottwendt9575 but how frequent or rare might these breakages be? They are underground rated?

[@aeridyne]

I've been thinking of this myself for YEARS and here I see a video of it, so it does work, and it really is that simple.

[@SimpleTek]

Sweet

[@davej7458]

One thing that is realy important. Call for utility locates. Dial 811 in the US or what ever number is used where you live. Some utility's are very dangerous and expensive to repair if you damage them. The liability and repair costs are on you if you don't get locates. They will tell you all the rules. Some utilities were installed decades ago before the neighborhood or houses were built. They turn up anywhere and are completely legal. Generaly they only locate the public utilities and not your under ground; gas, electrical, sewer, and phone lines. If you are worried about the pipe you can generally order the same pipe with heavy duty thicker walls. It won't bend as sharply and may require a wider trench, the manufacturer can tell you. Also ask about repairing kinks.

[@SimpleTek]

VERY good point!

[@andygammie7394]

I did a version of this, but I'm using it to cool the floor in my workshop in the summertime. It works great. I heat with propane in the winter. But I like having the ground loop as backup for freeze protection if I really needed it. I also did a open loop geothermal air intake setup for my greenhouse also works great.

[@SimpleTek]

That’s awesome! Thank you for sharing

[@arthurperrea3714]

I let mine run all last winter and at 19 below it got to 32 degrees but nothing froze as I put water bottles in different areas to test .I think the ground temp and moving air stop it from freezing.

[@mojomojo5779]

What do you mean by open loop? Thanks ahead for your help

[@wigidy12]

I was curious how it would work straight into an insulated slab. Do you have any issues with your system?

[@flipfloridalandebookbundle]

This is so cool! Thank you to all the smart people who are leaving these amazing well-thought-out and detailed comments full of useful explanations thank you

[@SimpleTek]

Cheers!

[@-HarmonyPulse]

Great info! What a fun experiment to start on! I’ve been fiddling around with ideas similar for a while! Thanks for the push!

[@SimpleTek]

you're very welcome

[@TheWebMindset]

This is cool and I can tell you're excited. I'm a US Green Building Council LEED AP and you've just given me my next project for my cabin on 50 acres in the mountains of West Virginia. My neighbor has a large excavator and this will be perfect. Thanks!

[@SimpleTek]

That's awesome! Thank you for the kind words!

[@Snailmailtrucker]

Great video ST... You Rock ! Liked/Subscribed ! I appreciate all that you put into these Free Instructional Courses !

[@SimpleTek]

Awesome, thank you soo much

[@twiincentral8780]

Thank you for sharing this, love this kind of thinking. Literally have a source of heat/cool that we’re not taking advantage of. I just don’t understand why these geothermal companies charge so much to dig and place the loop. 10k-20k just to dig is ridiculous.

[@SimpleTek]

So true!

[@twiincentral8780]

@@SimpleTek would love to hear your thoughts on vertical loops for those that don’t have the lane. Would two vertical loops using well digging equipment work just as good?

[@SimpleTek]

@@twiincentral8780 they work great but digging down usually costs more than digging out

[@NigelM18]

Money grab

[@Twoicebergs]

Vertical loops are very expensive in Canada compared to the USA. It is probably just a supply and demand pricing issue. When I installed my geothermal furnace, the cost for each bore was about $2,500 in Manitoba. In North Dakota it was about $600. I would have needed 4 holes. I went open loop well to well. I was still overcharged for one well, $5,000. I just didn't want to dig up my lawn to go horizontal. Now after 17 years, I should have just dug up one of my horse pastures for the installation. Over the years I have thought of doing a similar build as presented in this video, as I have a new addition on my house that can not be served by my current geo-system. It would also work extremely well in my barn for lower heat in the winter - way cheaper than electric!

[@olafschermann1592]

I heat my house using a heat pump. The pipes are drilled 2x90m (300ft) into the earth. My best investment were the additional 400 bucks for passive cooling the house in the summer using the infloor-heating lines. Your DIY solution for just cooling is so simple and cheap and easy to maintain. Thank You.

[@SimpleTek]

Thanks for sharing!

[@stephen-dev]

If I understand you correctly, you put the pipes in vertically rather than ran them horizontally, thus eliminating the need for 'an acre or so'. Probably saved yourself some time too?

[@SimpleTek]

@@stephen-dev well digging machines are often more expensive to rent than excavator though

[@olafschermann1592]

@@stephen-dev correct. But it was much more expensive because you habe to hire a drilling company with Special Equipment. But it is more common in EU because of a land price of $100 per squarefeet and up (in/near a major city). So you think twice if you want to spend 700k just for the land or better „only“ 400k. Drilling 180m/600ft deep costed me about $14k

[@stephen-dev]

@@SimpleTek I'm talking about a ground well that is already dug... as a ground well.

[@drproton85]

Hey boss! I'm in love with this video! So much so that I'm going to copy and paste your idea into my own project. I'm planning on expanding my house in the next 1-3 years and I need an upgraded condensing unit... Until I saw this video! I'll be making progress videos, once I get started, using your method! I'll start this project sometime next year (due to finances). This year I'll start getting the materials together you listed in this video. Thanks so much and hope to share with you as I go!

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you!

[@cm5838]

Interesting idea, but I’d add a few suggestions. First your radiator , the thicker it is the more thermal transfer you’ll get. A four core radiator would be what I’d look for, unfortunately more than 2 core is very hard to find but you can order four core radiators from performance shops like summit racing, desert cooler and I think jegs. The cooling liquid, ammonia can be harmful to aluminum, propalyne glycol (rv antifreeze, the red/pink stuff) is a much better idea, it can be mixed with water to a certain degree. As far as keeping the system free of air you can install air purging valves, for refilling you can add an auto fill for a boiler but make sure to use a small backflow preventer before the auto fill if connected to your domestic water pipes. Those parts can be found at heating supply shops that carry hydronic stuff. I’d suggest “taco” ( actual brand) air purge valves and watts makes good auto fill and backflow preventers.

[@Franklin-pc3xd]

No such thing as a "four core" radiator - it's a misnomer. You are confused - and you probably mean a four-tube radiator.... a couple hundred bucks.

[@PandorasFolly]

Ha! Back in college we jury rigged a system like this. Except our town home had free water and the water was metered for the entire complex. Giant floor fan, 2 car radiators, and Our water supply was from a faucet. Worked pretty well

[@SimpleTek]

That's awesome!

[@spudchick317]

So you hooked up tubing to a pump and radiators and filled it with tap water? Was it a sealed system with like a drum or were you running large quantities of tap water (presumably at a lower temperature than the room) through it (which your comments about no water costs suggests)?

[@PandorasFolly]

@@spudchick317 just water pressure from the kitchen faucet. no pump, had the water looped through one radiator and the next and then outside to a big blue barrel to try and make some use of the water like flushing and whatnot. Kept it on low as it was cold enough we didn't have tp run it full blast. We wipped it up while the Landlord was being slow as molasses at getting the AC fixed. We finally had to withhold rent to get them to fix the dang thing.

[@davagain]

Mr. ST talked about 400 feet of 3/4 inch water line. In case anybody (like me) was wondering how much washer fluid that means the system will need, a 3/4 inch line holds about a gallon for every hundred feet.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you!!!!!!!!

[@Dancing_Alone_wRentals]

Thank you! I was wondering. Any recommendations on how to place the pipe? Long runs or loops over each other? Thanks again.

[@iam5085]

www.omnicalculator.com/construction/pipe-volume ...or use the following formula: pipe volume = π * inner radius² * length (note the units)

[@Dancing_Alone_wRentals]

@@iam5085 tHanks

[@510Redneck]

Many if not most washer fluids have methanol in them - flammable.

[@anitahamlin2411]

More actual assembly instructions are needed!

[@SimpleTek]

ok

[@athanasiosdrakopoulos1519]

Also want if possible please assembly instructions

[@rantasia360]

That would requiring actually doing it. Talk is cheaper... :)

[@LBSolar]

Maybe I missed it but as long as you're running anti-freeze this should also work as a base load heater in colder climates if the ground temp down there is fairly high. If ground temp is 60F, that's 28F less heating from the freezing point you have to pay for. You would only need to pay for heating from 60F (minus efficiency losses) to around 72F. That's about a 12F delta instead of 40F... a 70% saving in fuel costs.

[@SimpleTek]

yes

[@buffdaddymike8534]

you have to run approved anti freeze liquid through the lines. most store bought anti freezes are not approved to dump it to the ground, so they are not applicable to this system. he mentions glycol, that is what the pros use, they mix it 10% glycol to 90% water pending the location. not to sure about using windshield washer fluid either. safe alternative is boat and camper winterizer

[@buffdaddymike8534]

NOT REALLY, if you have ground temp at 60F and room temp at 72F. you will be pulling the heat from the room and putting it in the ground. heat travels from hot to cold. It would be like running the heat and A/C at the same time. you could turn a heater on when in use and turn the geo thermal. at that point you may want to wait a while before turning back on if the ground temp is 60F you may only get the room temp up to around 40F. remember this is just a slap together system. you will never get 100% efficiency.

[@shawnd567]

@@buffdaddymike8534 You are correct! You'd increase your heating load if you did it like the other guy said. Now if you wanted to winterize your place and just keep it above freezing, that would work.

[@extraincomesuz]

If you backfill with sand and heat the sand in winter with solar electricity, it will stay warm for a longggg time search for sand battery

[@awesomeacademy1337]

So... where is the part where you show the system? It seems like this was a really good sales pitch but there wasn't really a diagram or video of the system in action. Is there another video that follows up to this one?

[@paulbaker3144]

The design of our house has a 4’ crawlspace buried in 4’ of gravel. The idea was to keep the house cool (and warm in winter) and a crawlspace of course. We will see how well it works this summer. I’m thinking it won’t be enough so am considering a ground loop similar to this video.

[@christophercrouch8847]

I just want to thank google for ease dropping on my conversation yesterday and suggesting your video today. You've got a new subscriber out of it too.

[@SimpleTek]

Sweet!

[@longwildernesswalks]

Exactly. Base loading and mass balancing is the name of the game. If you can reduce the amount of heat you have to produce by 50%, you're winning now and later. Base load for the win.

[@KellenChase]

Thanks for the video. Not relevant at this moment, but it’s changed my opinion on what to look for and think about when it comes to geothermal

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@KeithOlson]

For helping keep the greenhouse warm in the winter, you can build a rocket mass heater (for free, if you want!) that you only have to run for an hour or two each night or when it gets *REALLY* cold out.

[@SimpleTek]

Great point

[@berg8970]

I live in the midwest and installed a 5 ton geo thermal unit in my house. The average cost is approximately 3 times the cost of a standard HVAC system. Unless you live far to the north there is no need to dig so deep, mine was 5 ft deep and was dug by a trencher. For every ton of unit you need 500 ft of pipe in my case 5 lines connected to a header with one line from the header coming into the house under the foundation ( new construction). The average payback time for the whole system is 5 to 6 years. Geo thermal units are 400% effecient compared to the best standard HVAC unit. My heat exchanger rarely ever came on as my house was extreamely well insulated. I highly recomend these units to anyone. One last benefit you can also make hot water for your water heater in the summer time for free.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the info!!!!!!

[@theElderberryFarmer]

You've listed the positive aspects of geothermal heating/cooling very clearly. Let me now balance that with some of the less positive aspects I've encountered from having geothermal heating/cooling in two homes in different parts of the county (one in NJ for 7 years, the other in NC for 10 years). 1) All systems require maintenance and repair, and geothermal is no different. Salespeople will tell you that since the equipment is all indoors, it will last for 25+ years and require little or no maintenance. This is just not accurate. Geothermal units are just like traditional air-to-air heat pumps, but they use water/fluid instead of air as a heat transfer medium. This means that you will still have capacitors, contactors, filters, ductwork, thermostats, perhaps zoning equipment, all of which require maintenance. Think of them as a traditional heat pumps plus plumbing! Now, instead of just an HVAC repair guy, you need a plumber as well, all rolled up into one person. This will limit the number of firms that you'll be able to trust to work on your system. In some parts of the county, this may not present much of a problem (in northern climates you tens to find plenty of hydronic systems, so HVAC guys are familiar with water work. Not so much so in the south...). 2) If you have a closed loop system (which is the norm nowadays), you have to hope that you never get a leak in all of that underground tubing, as there is huge cost tied up in the design and installation of the field, and making a repair to it can be a huge effort. You also have to hope that the designer of the loop did his job properly, taking into account the specific soil conditions at your site and properly sizing the pumping equipment to the loop(s). If your loop is too small, you will suffer temperature saturation and your system will fail to heat/cool properly. If it is too large, you have wasted money in installation and pumping costs. 3) If you have an open loop system (not nearly so common these days, and actually prohibited by some municipalities), you have to be concerned with ongoing water quality issues. If your source well suddenly begins producing particulates (like from a mud seam opening up in you water column), you will find yourself unable to heat or cool geothermally. If your water hardness isn't appropriate (meaning you shouldn't have been sold an open loop system to begin with), you have to keep up with descaling your heat exchangers regularly. This is a cost that can become substantial. You have to be prepared to incur costs in replacing pressure tanks, well pumps, water filters, etc. over time. These costs can be substantial. 4) Higher efficiency equipment which includes variable speed fans, multi-stage scroll compressors, sophisticated zoning equipment, etc. tend to be less reliable than more traditional, lower efficiency equipment. When high efficiency equipment failures occur (and believe me, they do), the cost of repair rapidly outpaces the energy savings you have enjoyed over time. As a real-life example, I have a Florida Heat Pump 5-ton split unit servicing the 2nd and 3rd floors of my home. The variable speed fan motor in the air handler failed. Replacement cost was $1800 dollars, including labor. I called 3 outfits that are experienced in geothermal systems installation and maintenance (one of which is the company that installed my unit), and all 3 gave me estimates that were within $25 of each other for the repair. The fan motor cost alone was over $1500. Compare that cost to replacement of a single speed air handler fan in a lower efficiency unit (typically $600 or less including labor). It take a lot of time to save $1200 worth of electricity. Geothermal systems certainly have their place - just go into them with your eyes wide open.

[@berg8970]

@@theElderberryFarmer Anything with moving parts/ electronics will eventually need maintenance that's a given. Potential leaks on close loop systems: I would recommend placing scrap metal close to the surface of where the header is located or having some way to measure exactly where the header is, that is the only place it would leak under normal conditions. Knowing exactly where your header is located will reduce your cost dramatically for any potential repairs needed. Regarding loops being too long or too short, soil conditions I would recommend calling the manufacturer they will tell you everything you need to know for your unit and area that you live, don't just trust the Installer, do your due diligence. In my opinion keeping your HVAC unit as simple as possible is always the best way to go, less things that can fail. No variable speed fan, no multi stage scroll, no zoning equipment, if possible. As with all equipment everything has its attributes and drawbacks it's up to you to do your research prior to purchase.

[@SimpleTek]

@@theElderberryFarmer Thank you for your insight - most of what you said is heat pump related though - this isn't that

[@theElderberryFarmer]

@@SimpleTek Agreed - I am replying to Berg's comment, which IS geothermal heat pump related. :-)

[@uscitizen5656]

Very Interesting idea, especially since my A/C blower just took a dump and I have about 100' of the pipe lying around for what I thought was an outside water leak and I just kept it in case. In case may have just happened...Thanks for the idea.!

[@SimpleTek]

Right on

[@sevenravens]

Use a ditch witch trencher from Home Depot and lay in 4” pvc schedule 40 if you don’t have to go too deep. I used that method for a Kiva I built in the ground in Durango. I just made a 200’ run in a big loop around the property and used a couple of little computer fans in a push/pull configuration. Worked awesome in summer.

[@SimpleTek]

They work but don’t dig much over 3-4’

[@LoganAddisMusic]

Ever any worry about mold in the pipes?

[@SheridanAtwood-bd3ks]

I would like to learn more about the method you used in Arizona, as that is where I need to cool a small strawbale studio.

[@cressentsgarden]

I want to do this for a small greenhouse. Would it work? How deep do I need to dig and how much pipe would I need to lay?

[@DJRonnieG]

I'm glad I found this video because most of the content on this topic is focused on larger and more expensive versions. Only issue for me is that there is a tree which blocks excavator access. We had one here in the 1980s, but the tree was considerably smaller back then. Anyway, now I'm looking into how practical it is to disassemble and reassemble a mini-excavator before I plan the old fashioned way.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the kind words! Good luck with your project

[@alabastardmasterson]

That's practically the dumbest idea I've ever read on KZbin.

[@wuffa4503]

you have no driveway,or cannot take out a section of fence?

[@DJRonnieG]

@wuffa4503 now that you mention, might be an option if the neighbors are cool with it. Would be easier if the fence was due for replacement (its pretty new, just wooden pickets and posts).

[@mydevice62]

This is excellent. Thank you for sharing. You seem very knowledgeable, and your passion for this idea is very clear in your delivery. I love learning from someone who is clearly passionate about their work.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you very much!

[@JKarle]

Be very nice to see a build and then in use video. Love the idea and will look at it for my future green house and my garage

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@IndependenceIron]

I did something similar one summer to cool my parents garage. Similar principle but instead of buried line, they had a Cistern right next to the garage and used a little pump to circulate cistern water thru a cheap $20 radiator i bought off craigslist. Worked quite well but produced alot of condensation on hot summer days. Needed a better condensation tray.

[@SimpleTek]

That’s awesome, thank you for sharing

[@mrmr8228]

i feel like you just told me a secret, thank you for your taking the time to explain this powerful knowledge.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you soo much for the kind words!

[@Chillary]

I wish I could like this video twice! Thank you! I don't know why we are not using these systems more in Canada.

[@SimpleTek]

Canada , where I live, doesn’t get too hot in the summer. It’s more about hearing here. Was -40’ with windchill yesterday

[@Chillary]

@@SimpleTek That's cold! I am in Muskoka, Ontario. So far this year our winter has been mild, but we do get down to -30 or so here. Thanks for the videos!

[@CaedenV]

Probably will never build one, but this is just fascinating! Really enjoying these greenhouse videos! But it does beg the question... if you are renting an excavator, why wouldn't you just dig the whole greenhouse down about 2 feet? Sure, take some water precautions, but I'd imagine you would want some sort of sump/cistern solution for water reclamation anyways (combined with a gravity fed water drip system). But just digging down a couple feet would allow the floor and lower 16" of 'wall' to constantly help regulate temps in summer and winter. But I am not sold on this as a good way to cool a greenhouse. At the end of the day this just isn't going to put out the same kind of cooling as a $1-2000 window unit. This would be more like using a $200-300 unit... but running on 100W instead of 500W. More efficient for sure... but how long it would take to use $800 worth of electricity using a small wall unit vs the time and effort and cost of doing this kind of passive geo setup. The cheapest and most effective way to cool things is an intake fan, and an air gap in a high place. That alone should be able to get things down to near-ambient temperatures, and with a few strips of cardboard and a drip system you can get slightly below ambient with a home-brew evaporative cooler (with oppressive humidity lol). Most crop plants are quite happy at 90*f, and don't really start being damaged until there are sustained temps above 100*f. If your temps outside are above 100*f, then you need a more active cooling solution... problem is that you are in a greenhouse with extreme amounts of solar gain! You could cover the glass, but that kinda defeats the point (maybe a mesh blanket to provide some shade?), so the other option is conditioning the air, which means sealing the system for best efficiency. But in a greenhouse you are then dealing with extreme amounts of heat gain to purge, which is why you would need such a large beefy AC during those times. Again, passive geo would help supplement a larger AC unit, or maybe allow you to get by with a smaller unit... but at that cost vs power costs... I'm just not sure you would ever hit a break-even, especially if you bill yourself for your digging efforts (which you should!). But for heating... that would be a different story entirely. For heating you want everything sealed anyways, and you just have so many other potential heat sources. During the day you are almost guaranteed free heat from the solar gain, so the trick is storing that heat to release at night with a thermal mass of some sort; large black barrels of water, a big back masonry wall, even the ground itself is going to give off a certain amount of heat. The 2nd trick is to then retain heat by preventing air exchange, reflecting heat (mylar is cheap!), increasing r-value with a blanket over the glass and insulated walls. Third trick is then adding heat if needed. If you have any real amount of power available, then the first thing that comes to mind is to add grow lights - have them turn on for a couple hours in the early morning (coldest part of the day), and they will add heat, and also extend the daylight hours, and it would be super cheap to implement and set up. 2nd thought is a cheap emergency heater... probably want one anyways for a freak cold dip, and if a cheap $30 heater just needs to run for a night or two to keep the crops alive... well... like the AC, it is going to take more than a few nights to make the geo worth doing. BUT, just keeping the plants alive and above freezing may not be ideal. Keeping them closer to 40-50*f at night could produce better growth and harvests, which that alone could make the passive geo system worth it. The thing to look out for though is that it is passive, so if you are in a more temperate winter area, then during the day the greenhouse might get above 50*, at which point the system is removing heat, instead of adding it. So put it on a thermostat, and if it gets much above 50, then be sure to turn it off so you can build up as much heat as possible before things dip below 50 again in the evening. But again... if you are renting an excavator, and you just dig down 2-3', then you are going to get a lot of these benefits of temperature regulation for free anyways without need of worrying about pumps breaking or water lines failing. The real lesson here is that if you are going to pay for an excavator, then dig the trench and bury the line anyways so it is there as a potential future option... but really just bury the building as much as you can. It isn't going to affect your sun intake, and will help a lot with temperature regulation during those cold winter months especially. The best passive geo is going to be when you don't need anything to make it wok for you in the first place.

[@SimpleTek]

walipini greenhouses trade light for geo thermal heat. also there's a lot of potential flooding issues , esp in spring with snow melt, when you dig down 2-3 fee where I live

[@nauy]

Brilliant idea! It's a low efficiency refrigerant-free closed loop system that is dead simple and cheap. Simple is great for maintenance. I would put multiple branches in the ground that T off of the main lines from/to the pump, keeping theT above ground. Though I wonder how long the pump and radiator will hold up to the corrosive methanol/ethanol in the all season windshield washer fluid. Maybe the propylene glycol based RV/Marine antifreeze would be better? They are also cheap and safe to handle and usually contain corrosion inhibitors. BTW propylene glycol is used in industrial heat transfer fluids.

[@SimpleTek]

people who have these usually get 15+ years before changing radiators.

[@denisc958]

Considering how refrigerant is bad for the environment, this is great.

[@CA.....]

@@denisc958 Yes, this is very true.

[@TheAnticorporatist]

Holy Crap! Walmart was closing out that "RV antifreeze" the other day. I wanted to get some, but just didn't think that I had a need!

[@jordanrowe5040]

You sir are a genius and the demonstrations and explanations were 1000% spot on. You’re very practical to understand and approach is great. Thank you!

[@SimpleTek]

Wow, thank you!

[@HolyShitAccess]

You have opened my eyes, thank you sir. Now to get this setup done at my Long beach property in Washington.

[@SimpleTek]

That’s awesome

[@atranimecs]

im glad you differentiated between these types of systems and GAHT ( ground air heat transfer) systems.....I didn't know about the liquid loop based systems until your and a couple others' videos, seem a LOT more resilient and that's good to know. I hate when people talk about an inferior alternative when there is a better solution that is still cheap.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@christawilliams9116]

I used to work for a geothermal installer. He used a 50/50 mix of methanol and distilled water. Got the methonal (DRAGSTER FEUL) at the local drag strip for cheap.

[@SimpleTek]

great tip

[@thebizop]

Sounds explosive

[@christawilliams9116]

@@thebizop It is important to mix it outside with good ventilation. Then it's safe. If you bring undiluted methanol into an enclosed space, if we're to ignite the flames are invisible.

[@SimpleTek]

@@thebizop BOOMY!!!!!

[@kaf2303]

Thanks for spreading this information! This reminds me of the system I set up in a 100m deep water well I use it as is for cooling and use the water through a water to water heat pump that I built for heating my radiant floors.

[@SimpleTek]

That’s awesome

[@marieennis6114]

I have been trying to think of a way to do this for years I had some things figured out on my own but the radiator and the water pump thing great idea great I thank you so much for pulling this idea all together in my head I will be starting on it in the spring.

[@SimpleTek]

You’re very welcome

[@HANDYDANDYHUSBAND]

Hi Simple Tek, just wanted to drop you a line and express my thanks and appreciation for this excellent video. Very simple, straight forward yet detailed enough to provide all the information one would need. Keep up the great work. Being a fellow Canadian, I especially appreciate your content as it is climate similar to the areas where I would build. All the best to you, HDH [: { ].

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you soo much for the kind words

[@sunworksco]

PEX tubing buried in soils containing iron oxide can degrade prematurely. Even iron oxide rich water flowing inside the tubing can have negative effects. You also want to pressurize the fluid to 30psi and vent any air out, to prevent corrosion and reduce the load on the circulator pump. I would spend the extra change and use a proportional speed fan control/thermostat, with a squirrel cage fan for slow start and low decibel design.

[@SimpleTek]

Thanks

[@mikefeddersen2476]

I know this video is a general idea with all but the nitpicking details added. Thank you for this. I had a couple thoughts that really don't fit anywhere, but maybe someone could use. On the fan, if you use a box fan, mount a air filter to it. That way you filter the air in your workshop, or basement, or garage. It will save the radiator from getting plugged, especially if the fins sweat/condensate. Also a tubing like this run through an attic in the summer could heat a pool. I remember reading about a radiator mounted in an attic to grab the attics heat for a pool heater. Anyway looking forward to seeing some of your other videos. 😊

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the great ideas

[@earthenergyhex]

this is awesome, I never thought of doing it before. I'm gonna try it in a 10 x 15' shed.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the kind words! Best of luck on your project!!

[@BulletproofPastor]

We looked into this in the Texas Coastal Bend and learned ground temperature (sand) dropped to 75°F at 24" depth but increased after that. Much below that got into ground water and digging requires an active high-capacity trash pump.

[@SimpleTek]

I wonder if all areas of Texas are like that or just where you tested

[@solosailorsv8065]

If you hit ground water, that's the perfect heat transfer depth and medium. No need to go further. You Win !

[@makoado6010]

i have this in hungary cc 30years ago. except i dont use a pipe spiral, but i have a 250W pump in a well. the earth temperature in hungary around 11C at winter and summer aswell not much water need to cool down a house. and after cooling i drive this water into a rainwater storage and use to garden watering. yesterday was 40C here and kept the 25C inside.

[@SimpleTek]

very cool thank you for sharing

[@henzelreyamasol7299]

Much better than hollow pipe coz molds would invade those hollow pipes and might cause respiratory problems.

[@pparado]

@mako ado: Sounds great! If I understand correctly, instead of digging/excavating and laying long pipes around a wide swathe of land. I can just drop a hose into a water well, and circulate that water via pump to a radiator? Then the return flows back into the same well? Looking forward to a reply :)

[@makoado6010]

@@pparado "can just drop a hose into a water well, and circulate that water via pump to a radiator?" yes. "Then the return flows back into the same well?" that not a good idea. u need a constant flow of cold water. and u cant drive back the used water into another well. because the water contains small particles and that will clog the sinking well pretty fast. best if u can use it for watering ur garden or drive into communal network.

[@anonimus4639]

Szia,tudnék veled erről beszélni?

[@Chimonger1]

Plus, you can hybrid the cooling tubes, with solar heated tubing sections turned on for winter, with a modest backup boiler in very cold areas.

[@SimpleTek]

Well said

[@gangrenesmith9999]

Just discovered your vid. Epic information, mate. Thank you. From what I gather, there are some kind of tech like this since ancient times. 👍

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you

[@davek9384]

Have to say this is one of the most interesting systems I've seen on your channel! I've been looking for an alternative to the portable evaporative cooler I have been using in my "2+1" garage and workshop. It works OK for cooling in the summer (high desert of New Mexico) but uses quite a bit of water, and we are in this longterm drought. Plus, it's of course useless for heating in the winter. Hoping you are coming up with an instructional how to on this? A really really detailed how-to for the tech-challenged portion of your subscribers (like me)? Thanks! Dave

[@SimpleTek]

I'm going to be posting my installation soon. I own an RV park and when I add holding tanks I rent an excavator, I can use it then to put this in

[@drakekoefoed1642]

maybe you could chlorinate some of your gray water, run it through a filter, maybe a sand filter you can backwash. i imagine you would run a shower drain into a barrel or something, then let it overflow to get rid of floating crud, and pump the water out with a little submersible pump, 50W should do it. hang the pump off the bottom to avoid the sediment. your filter could be a piece of window screen

[@KrazeeCain]

If you combined this with a solar water heater array on the roof, you could possibly have everything covered. Ground AC in the summer, Roof heat in the winter, roof heat for your hot water supply, and a peltier (thermoelectric) array that uses both to generate power for your remaining electricity needs!

[@SimpleTek]

interesting idea!

[@TheJagjr4450]

Thanks for this as it is exactly what I had in my head as far as a budget geo thermal, I have an unused well which has plenty of flow to provide 55 degree water - a couple of old car radiators and fans then I am in business.

[@SimpleTek]

Exactly

[@williamkreth]

Omg dude I never thought about using water instead of using the air! Brilliant!!!

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you

[@barbidahoinsummer6769]

@@SimpleTek I just moved to AZ - I am only interested in the AC feature of this system. Old Goat system sounds great.

[@kistuszek]

I just built a diy AC this year. I literally just took off the outside heat exchanger from the busted split ac unit and piped well water through the coolant pipes. 16C well water 100 liter an hour solves my problem. The indoor blower that i wired to bypass the original pcb consumes 15 watts. The well pump runs like 1 / 10 of the time and consumes like 600 watts. So average 75 watt for the whole thing. You can irrigate with the water that runs through the ac, or let is just drain through the soil to find its way down to the watertable. Spent a hundred bucks worth of local money for all the plumbing and electrical supply i used. But honestly, for the same performance, you can just hook up a garden hose and be done with it for free. Now this off course presumes you have a nicely compatible well. A low powered well pump works great with this, like those 100 watt pulsing cheapo stuff. Or a normal 500- 1000 W pump with a water tank. Key is to not run a big pump continously with a small flow, wasting a lot of energy.

[@SimpleTek]

well systems work great!

[@timdunne4363]

What if one did a hybrid of yours and the author's? Keep the closed loop of the author's, use the outdoor HVAC condenser indoors as the radiator and fan. I do not have a mini split. Based on your experience, do you think that would work?

[@sween187]

We use this technology to warm our houses, it is able to bump the water temp up, then the rest it heated up traditional, so the gap it less in heating, 25c to 60c rather than 15c to 60c.

[@SimpleTek]

That's awesome

[@mtiris1]

Hello sween.How mush max degree in your area during summer and winter?and how much deep did you installed pipes under ground?Thank you very much

[@harveyroad6]

Am in Canada on clay soil. We are going to try this to heat and cool a 28'x36' garage. My goal is 10'C in winter and 10'C less than. summer hottest days. So am going to run a fan high up on the ceiling in summer and water lines in the slab for winter. Knowing that friction loss is directly related to pipe size am thinking of using 1" for everything so the pump won't work as hard. Thanks for this video.

[@SimpleTek]

Awesome

[@rodhawkins5037]

3rd year on my system. 600 ft long 8 ft deep 2- 1 inch lines spaced 16 inches apart. Keeps my garage 40x40 12ft ceiling pretty comfortable in summer. In the winter it stays about 40 deg.f at night and warms a bit during the day. I run plain water in it and haven't had any issues. I fixed it with a condesation pan , i have collected water from it but not as much as i thought it would. I'm using a 20x24 radiator for a wood boiler. Oh, it took me 40hrs to dig (3 days in the hot seat ,sun up till sun down)😂

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you soo much for the information!!! Congrats on an awesome system !

[@gunnyd9282]

Dual 12 volt car fan! Depending on flow, you could also use 12 volt water pump. Methanol water mix to prevent freezing.

[@SimpleTek]

cool

[@mindofmadness5593]

Ethanol maybe. Easy to make and a lot of folks in this area do so.

[@lorrainelamb4664]

That's what I am thinking!

[@alec4672]

I live 30ft from a spring feed lake. This is tempting. In my situation I'd only need say 100ft of pipe. The lake water is always pretty damn cold 🤙

[@SimpleTek]

you can drop the lines in the lake but it's better to have longer lines just coiled underwater so the water in the system has time to cool down

[@jopalolive]

I had an idea for a variation of what you are showing. Here in the South West Pro-Panel metal roofs are common, and I thought that just putting sheet material over the tops of the Propanel would make ready made channels that air could be circulated through, sun in the winter, and night sky in the summer. It utilizes existing roof space. It would work for a garage or green house or thermal mass in a crawlspace. That way like you mentioned you don't have to worry about mold, or Radon or filling up with water. It could be installed in new home construction. I really like your variation of space heating.

[@SimpleTek]

Very interesting!

[@guygifford]

I didn't understand your idea, although, I'd like to understand it.

[@puttpearson996]

I've had the same thought over the years to lower the heat load to close to ambient temps going into my shop in the TN summers. For it to work, the 2 sheets of metal do not need to touch each other or there will be bridging. Some type of spacer of a inch or more should be used.

[@mikealdag7309]

Building mine now , I trenched out a 10foot by 10 foot by 10 foot hole , I'm laying 4inch pvc in parallel then to a 1 inch hose 400 feet long in a coil, spread out and back filled , then to the house, I read an article where they experimented with geothermal retention of pvc , it seems really very good , and I figured the volume of fluid in that underground mess of pipe will act more or less as a volume tank to help the fluid heat exchange better. Any insight or opinions would be great , I'm still trenching to the house so I still have a little time to change up my ideas , thank you for this video , people need to pay attention to simplicity and efficiency !

[@SimpleTek]

that's Awesome!

[@UmarO]

How did it work out for you?

[@mikealdag7309]

@@UmarO lol I'm still working on it in my spare time , I blew a ram on my backhoe and had to stop and rebuild it then other things got in the way, I'll finish it later this summer I hope . I used a backhoe , I own one, if I had it to do again I would rent either a skid steer or a small track hoe so the trench wasn't so big . but I'll finish with what I have , best of luck to you it's yours if you do it.

[@MrSparkums]

I am planning on doing this only using vertical diy shafts, probably a dozen 30-40 ft deep. I'd like to also find a way to either or both run it into radiant slab and a heat ex-changer into the central A/C system.. Figuring how to make it all work automatically will be the most difficult part in my mind. Awesome video!!

[@SimpleTek]

Very cool! Good luck

[@bbqpelletsonline]

Did you end up testing this out?

[@MrSparkums]

@@bbqpelletsonline We wound up deciding to sell the lot and hold out for something in an agricultural zone so no, not yet. I found a video from a gentlemen who dug a dozen 30 ft shafts with pvc and a garden hose, then drive a loop of irrigation line down each one, tied them altogether and ran them to a heat exchanger. I might put these concepts together and tie into radiant slab or even add an exchanger into an air handler system. Lots of ideas about all this.

[@eseehome6608]

i have a drill hole for well water ( but now i dont use well water ) and it deep like your but it only 60mm hole , did you tried vertical closed loop yet ? and what about result ? im worrying it dont have enough long for tranfer heat

[@jordangladden]

My only critique. Using low grade heat transfer in summer, the radiator may not get cool enough to dehumidify the air in the same way that a compressor driven system would. I think that someone should take an air conditioner and add a liquid to liquid heat exchanger after the condenser coil for additional cooling from the ground water. In this way, the condenser can blow of some heat to the outside air and then get a boost of cooling from the ground water loop.

[@SimpleTek]

This depends on your ground temperature where you live I would think

[@ShawnJonesHellion]

I had to run dehumidifiers in the summer anyways. So...

[@broderickcamel1701]

pretty interesting how simple and effective this seems

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you

[@DrTofutybeast]

About 25 years ago I came up with the same idea... And installed one. Today I would just install an air source ductless Heat Pump. Super cheap to install and use... And provides real heat and cooling and reduces humidity.

[@SimpleTek]

The air source heat pump stops working at about -20C though

[@carlost9454]

Few questions: how long of a trench you need or how many square feet of trench? How do you arrange the tube in the trench? How do you use this system in a house? You would need a dedicated room that would spread the cooler air throughout the house.

[@SimpleTek]

Need a lot more info for most of those questions

[@dontoews6754]

Here's a cheapie, build a framework of pvc pipe and then on top of framework make a seven foot compost pile. This will deliver hot water to your building for 6 months.

[@SimpleTek]

Compost heat is awesome, I have a video on it

[@ColeccionistaDeAtardeceres]

Great video! I was exactly thinking about something like that. And I already have a useful car radiator. Thanks for sharing. Greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina !

[@SimpleTek]

Glad it was helpful!

[@notpoliticallycorrect]

Excellent channel! We love and appreciate you! Thank you for caring for us!

[@Vagitarion]

8 to 10 feet is a considerable depth to be running a good length of trench. Especially if your ideal conditions for burial are in sand. Sand requires sloping outwards at a specific gradient from your trench base at that depth, or rated shoring, to ensure it will not collapse. I would not recommend anybody go that deep without shoring, especially in loose soil.

[@SimpleTek]

well said

[@rickbeline354]

Easy trick: one person runs the excavator and a second person lays down the pipe. That way if the walls collapse, the pipe is already buried and less back filling is required.

[@wuffa4503]

Go back and really LISTEN to what he said,,,amazing what people do not hear

[@michaelglenning5107]

Same concept can work for heating the greenhouse, but the water lines are placed under the greenhouse and pumped with solar hot water during the summer.

[@SimpleTek]

exactly!!!!!!

[@CaedenV]

Really, heating is the only viable use-case for this kind of system. If you need to cool things then a fan and exhaust system is going to be cheaper and easier to get thing to ambient. And if you need to get below ambient temps, but above peak growing temps of 80-90*f, then this kind of system isn't going to put out enough cooling to help... I mean... better than a sealed box, but pumping heat out of the space with an AC is going to be almost required. But to add heat to a space... yeah, I think this kind of system combined with other types of heat storage and a blanket system could keep those night time temps significantly warmer, and well above freezing in most areas.

[@SimpleTek]

@@CaedenV clearly you don't understand how many tons of air cooling this system can do

[@SimpleTek]

@@CaedenV possibly

[@healthfullivingify]

100% agree with your great concept. Thanks again for superior ideas.

[@SimpleTek]

My pleasure! Thank you for the kind words!

[@goosenotmaverick1156]

I picked up an old buss heater for free. Framed, with 2 12v fans. I plan on using it to do this and cool a greenhouse. Eventually expanding the system to cool the house and then use the remainder of the disipating capacity to cool the greenhouse

[@masterv2118]

Build it .. see if it works as expected. Can you connect with a hose to cold water (pump) to the Greenhouse heating rad you already have and kick the fan on for a couple house.. ?

[@SimpleTek]

yes

[@brucepugh1536]

My limited understanding is you need about 55 degrees Fahrenheit in/on the coils to be comfortable in a living environment for the humidity to be drawn off. And at 12 feet depth horizontal coils, you only get 20 degrees Farhenheit difference from outside air on an average delayed sine wave. So the outside temperature needs to stay below about 85 degrees being generous with conversion inefficiency for this to work.

[@SheridanAtwood-bd3ks]

I am finding this exact issue to be the problem in the Arizona desert. The best that get gets 12 feet down on a 102 degree day is 86 degrees. 86 isn't exactly comfortable air conditioning. There is now a pre charged plug n cool hybrid minisplit hvac which uses 600 watts of 12 volt solar panels on their smallest system of 9000 BTUs and it costs $1299. Add 50 cents per watt for high quality used QCell, Canadian or Sunpower Solar panels and you have a 30 minute self installation complete system for under $2000 for heating and air conditioning with only the need of the sun . The unit is completely self contained and if you have grid power it switches right over to the grid after the sun isn't putting out, or it switches to your battery reserves.

[@billboyd4051]

You can also extract cold directly from your well, and feed the warm water back into your well. You can also run refrigerant lines into a well and extract heat for a heat pump. Both may be illegal depending on your location.

[@SimpleTek]

Yes that works!!

[@driller62869]

That will definitely contaminate a well. Even setting a new pump , if well not properly prepared for installation introduces contaminates. You wouldn’t want your unqualified neighbor doing it would you ? There are areas all throughout the US , and I’m sure the rest of the world that people have contaminated water and it was contributed by some source close by

[@SimpleTek]

@@driller62869 geothermal wells are all over the place, how exactly would pumping clean water back contaminate a well????

[@billboyd4051]

@@driller62869 Thats why I stated it may be illegal in some States. Simply extracting cold water is a pretty safe method.

[@brockm4047]

Great video. High level overview to give anyone handy a good solid starting point. Thanks!

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the kind words

[@adamgoldberg98]

I love the idea and have wanted to do it for a couple years but live in the southern US ground temp 12-20 ft down is 72-75 f and even a well system will only get you down to 65 - 68 range (20 c ) not sure if the temp difference would be enough to cool in the summer but seems perfect for the north

[@SimpleTek]

thank you

[@bobloblaw10001]

Second this comment. Ground heat pump cooling doesn't really work in the Sunbelt.. or, it may work marginally well for a little while then the ground gets thermally saturated and stops doing much good.

[@pearlrival3124]

you broke my spirits. any links to this info much appreciated. TN here.

[@rickbeline354]

It does work, but you may have to go to a vertical well(s) down 60 or more feet to get to the lower temp (55 - 60*F) range, and use the closed loop to provide the heatsink for a standard a/c or heat pump. Figure 30 to 40' below the 50' mark for the actual 'heat dump'. Then figure at lest one well for each ton of a/c capacity, spaced no closer than 15' to prevent heating the ground water feeding the next well. About 100' of actual cooling per ton. IE: one 350' well for 3 ton system. Or 3 wells of 140' minimum.

[@geekthesteve6215]

If you are in a low humidity area (Arizona, California's high desert, Utah, western Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada for example) try creating a water feature outside with a couple car radiators embedded in the feature where they are not seen but you can have recirculated water cascade over them. To increase efficiency consider embedding a fan in the apparatus as well. This water feature would take the place of the buried PEX. Remember, before freon or ammonia based air conditioning systems people cooled with evaporative systems in the southwest quite effectively (and efficiently). Run the closed part of the system (where water passes though the radiators and into the part of the system internal to the house) like explained in the video. Again, creating a sand battery in any crawl space under the house would help you to store cold overnight if you chose to run your water feature overnight. Let me know how it works because these are my plans for my house and shop here in the high country in Arizona.

[@joecolletti]

Thank you for this video-- interesting and helpful! One question though. It seems like this works both for heating and cooling-- you're taking advantage of below-ground temps that are closer to what you want in your own space. But there were a few times in video-- and in comments-- where heat pumps are mentioned. Are these something different? Thanks again

[@SimpleTek]

heat pumps amplify the heat but will use more electricity -

[@Aranore]

Heat pumps use a compressor and a different medium than what is mentioned here so they take the cold outside air of -10c and spit it back out at -15c and they "pump" the 5c heat into the living space, so they "heat up" your house air from 15c to 20c in the winter. This system instead uses the direct heat temperature of the ground and can't amplify it - the air blown off the radiator will always be the ground temperature (commonly 6c-10c) It's still fantastic in either case because heat pumps become less efficient as it gets hotter and colder (more so colder side) so if you use standard heating systems in combination with this it can help big time.

[@MelvinPhuti]

@@Aranore There's also ground source heat pumps, which will use ground temperature instead of air temp. If your ambient air is below zero and your ground temp is consistently 16c, you gain a huge amount of efficiency. Same as the opposite end. When it is hot, instead of using the ambient air, ground temp can be used instead in order to achieve cooling effieiency

[@mikegrok]

I see what you are saying, but the ground temp near me in south Alabama is about 75F degrees a few feet down. My cold water out of the tap is between 83F and 88F during the summer. However, the air temp is between 96F and 113F. If I add a second heat exchanger to the cooled AC line to drop the temp of the liquid from near 113 to near 75, that will be an enormous increase in efficiency of my cooling system. I am planning on circulating a loop with it passing through my rainwater recovery basin. (we get more rain than seattle). This is on a new construction project. There will be numerous trenches, might as well drop some geothermal loops into them.

[@SimpleTek]

very cool

[@davidburkhart9184]

Hey Michael how did this system turn out on the cooling?

[@mikegrok]

@@davidburkhart9184 it is still at the architect.

[@jafinch78]

One of these can be great with an air filtrating (1-4" MERV11 at least) DIY ERV made from Coroplast or maybe better corrugated materials (I plan to iron aluminum screen I got, into both sides of the Coroplast to aid in heat exchange cost effectively) if you can find cost effectively and fabricate OK. I literally have been planning also to fabricate a subframe assembly on two of my garden tractors so can meet the "fits in my longbed pickup" that will connect a front end loader, high-low and a backhoe/excavator that'll reach 8ft just for this purpose alone. Actually, the high-low is for other projects. Amazing what can be found cost effectively in regards to materials for free other than the cost to remove and haul away if you're patient.

[@jafinch78]

Thanks for sharing, by the way!

[@SimpleTek]

Interesting!

[@lynnbradley7387]

Could you please do a follow up video to this showing exactly where everything is placed where does the end of the water hose go into where does the pump go where do you hook the or the radiator up to please thank you

[@SimpleTek]

someday yes

[@barbidahoinsummer6769]

@@SimpleTek I would appreciate that follow up too

[@pparado]

Me too! Oh, and can you please share your opinion re: instead of digging and laying long pipes around a large area of land...can I use an existing water well instead? Maybe drop a hose to the bottom and pump the water up and into a radiator then dump the same back into the well? Will that work? OR do I need to drop coils of pipe into the well? Looking forward to a reply.

[@SimpleTek]

@@pparado it might work - use pex instead of a rubber hose

[@GabrielLopez-mo2xo]

Awesome vid would definitely love a more technical breakdown of how to build the system perhaps just a small scale and how this system would work for those of us not in the northern climate.

[@SimpleTek]

thank you for the kind words! there's an update video in the archives of Simple Tek!

[@Liberty4Ever]

I've wanted to do this for 30 years and wondered why nobody else seemed to be doing it. I live in central Kentucky and there is a large shield dome of limestone here so the excavation would be costly, but still a bargain compared to conventional HVAC. For new construction, the best bet would be a house near a lake or pond that's deep enough for a thermocline layer. Advantages not mentioned in the video: 1) There is a lag between air temperatures and underground temperatures. When you want summer air conditioning, the underground temperature is coolest. Similarly, it's warmest in the winter if you want to heat a green house to avoid freezing at night, or heat a garage or out building. 2) For air conditioning, the circulating pump can be powered directly by a solar panel. In the simplest system, no thermostat is needed. The more the sun shines, the more cold water is pumped to cool the house. The entire system can be nominal 12 VDC directly from a solar panel which could generate 18 VDC maximum, which a 12 VDC pump and 12 VDC muffin fans on the radiator should tolerate well. Did you actually build this system, or like me, did you imagineer it? Like a conventional air conditioner, there will be condensation on the radiator which will need to be drained away, and I'd add an air filter at the inlet to the fans to avoid clogging the fan blades and radiator fins with cat fur, lint, dust, etc.

[@tonyfremont]

For the curious, 400' of 3/4" PEX will need about 8 gallons of fluid to fill it. I was skeptical of using washer fluid, due to the expensive nature, but 8 gallons isn't a lot to pay for when it will keep your system from freezing.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you for the calculations!

[@starbase18portugal]

Could you just hook it up with the central heating system so cool water flows through all the radiators of the house. Maybe with an additional heat exchanger in between to keep the liquids separated?

[@SimpleTek]

Possibly!

[@111jacare]

@Starbase18: What you are describing is similar to the loops on a nuclear reactor. Water flows through the pile, becomes steam, then to a heat exchanger, then to the turbines. The two loops are kept separate by the use of the heat exchanger.

[@michaelplunkett8059]

No, as hot moist summer air will have water condense out like a sweating glass of ice water and drip under every radiator in the house. Transfer point where air hits dew point and water condenses out needs drainage.

[@SimpleTek]

@@michaelplunkett8059 depends if your area is humid, won't happen much in dry areas

[@samualwhittemore228]

Where people REALLY need AC -- the ground temperature is NOT "cool". Texas 77-79. Solution: 1) Add LOTS of insulation 2) Add DIY solar power (to help with power bill, not eliminate) 3) Do not waste money on super high efficient AC systems.(KISS) 4) Buy Mini-splits instead of central. a) Zero duct loss b) zoning efficiencies c) if one unit breaks you still have another room that's cool

[@SimpleTek]

solution - don't live in Texas LOL

[@Wroseman]

How incredibly clever! Thank you so much.

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you the kind words

[@derekdevs]

The clicks and pops in your audio can be fixed with izotope RX, audio plug-ins. The source of the problem, however, as improper audio gain staging when recording. It’s important not to clip when you are recording to digital format. With that said, thanks for this video!

[@SimpleTek]

Thank you