Medieval Maps and Manuscripts (with Dr. Helen Davies)

Professor Helen Davies (University of Colorado, Colorado Springs) answers questions about medieval manuscripts and maps from Patreon supporters of Jackson Crawford in a Patreon-exclusive Zoom conversation held live on June 5, 2022.
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[@mwflanagan1]

Not only was it interesting to see experts expressing themselves well, but it’s always great to see folks geeking out about a niche interest/specialty. Thanks to you both.

[@LoganKearsley]

Hey! My first professional job was using computer-assisted technologies to read medieval texts! (Specifically, building a system to view scanned documents aligned with multiple manual transcriptions, showing the differences between each transcription for proofreading purposes.)

[@callisastapp7160]

was that like an internship thing?

[@LoganKearsley]

@@callisastapp7160 Nope, just first assignment as a student employee of the university.

[@callisastapp7160]

@@LoganKearsley epiccccc

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

The dank art of studying ancient memes

[@lucianofang]

Such a good video. It’s so refreshing hearing a scholar speak in a relaxed and almost joking way sometimes. Makes it more pleasant for the listener

[@阳明子]

These crowdcasts are my favorite videos on KZbin. I'm very excited to see Dr. Crawford's new project!! I wonder if it's a 'Learn Old Norse' book...?

[@nikburisson9-pissedoffpeasant-]

Legitimate Old Norse Dictionary complete with.....Everything. Would be nice.

[@septegram]

Measuring books by sheep. Americans will use anything but the metric system! 😆 Doctor Davies, _PLEASE_ let us know if you find a new ending to Bricriu's Feast!!

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

It isn’t that bad as things go though it is more suited for scrolls than codices, and I think Torahs are the only scrolls regularly written anymore, and they’ll all be the same length.

[@andrewcrampton3433]

I think vellum was more for folios/books where it was folded. Scrolls tend to be better with fibrous materials like papyrus or paper. That way they can be as long as you like.

[@abtiitba159]

Unintelligible writing as signalling is certainly still a thing, even if the purpose is different. Just do an image search for "black metal logo".

[@alejandrofernandezalvarez2927]

In Spanish, handwriting became a work of the devil in the 1500s and specially the 1600s with the "escritura procesal", which is painfully cursive.

[@melissamybubbles6139]

Do scholars ever make "forgeries" with no intention of selling them just to understand how the original construction of documents worked? I know this happens with other aspects of material culture.

[@MuriKakari]

If scholars do it it's called experiemental archaeology.

[@melissamybubbles6139]

@@MuriKakari Yeah. I just don't know what to call it if it's a document instead of another kind of object. Would it still be called experimental archeology?

[@MuriKakari]

@@melissamybubbles6139 Do we know the official title for Dr. Davies field? Experimental Manuscriptology or Experimental Historical Cartography or similar??

[@richarddelotto2375]

This was excellent-- informative and entertaining.

[@koomaj]

For a second I though I had clicked a wrong link. Intro music was same as Drachifinel's =)

[@sympathiea]

dramatic royalty free music ayooo

[@andrewcrampton3433]

5 minute guide to maps. Hahaha

[@mytube001]

Same!

[@gavinrogers5246]

The Treaty of Alfred and Guthrum is a good example of a vernacular map.

[@johndavidnew]

aka Æðelstan

[@gavinrogers5246]

@@johndavidnew true, but he is named as Gu∂rum cyning on the treaty.

[@P-Mouse]

Drachinifel

[@getrealroleplaying7427]

Black metal band logos certainly do signal with unintelligibility!

[@waltersteerunde4444]

I really love your videos Jackson. I'm not a Scientist, but a freak of languages and history. And Helen Davies is not only a smart, but also funny dialogue-partner. Well-invested time to watch this video.

[@Leofwine]

To the things discussed at around 38:00 I can add a few things. I could probably fool people by changing my handwriting. I learned a German school script (Vereinfachte Ausgangsschrift), which I modified towards a cursive written in (modern-day) Poland in the 1860s in my early 20s. In my teens, I learned how to read (and write!) the German Kurrent script of the 1900s, and I was proficient enough that I could teach my classmates read that script in history class. I have since modified my Kurrent style towards a specimen of the mid-1820s I also taught myself calligraphy, and my go-to style is a very English-looking Proto-Gothic minuscule based on a few manuscripts from the 1120s, with all the extra letters required to write Old English (which I also speak). Earlier, it was a very generic Carolingian minuscule from a modern calligraphy book. Currently, I'm trying out a variation of Spencerian cursive (which, as a left-handed person, is more challenging). What I find quite annoying is when I discover some interesting-looking manuscript on the internet (and a hand I'd like to copy), only to not have a facsimile on the internet. Thankfully, this is slowly changing as more manuscripts are being digitised.

[@vvvvaaaacccc]

my cousin (~40 years old) is one of those dot-dot-dot guys. varying amounts of dots! it's wild. I don't get it.

[@daviddziuk9806]

As a dyslexic I stopped using cursive to write when it was an option since using it multiplied my spelling errors. However, there is a cost in terms of how fast I can write and I wonder if the move to cursive was about productivity. Perhaps early on clarity and quality were more important than pumping out things as fast as possible and the push to cursive was economic as demand for inexpensive mass produced literature increased as the medieval period progressed and developed both culturally and economically. The solution, the printing press, was the final outcome in solving this problem.

[@andrewcrampton3433]

It is more to do with writing technology. Cursive is designed to be written without lifting your pen nib off the page. Also metal nibs allowed for a greater range of movements on the paper as they did not break as easily as quills. Other factor promoting it was copperplate printing blocks where it is easier to scratch long lines rather than lots of short ones. Print style individual letters has come back into fashion as that is mostly what we see on screen and handwriting speed is not a thing anymore.

[@MuriKakari]

I wonder if the hard-to-read handwriting was protectionism/elitism from the intellectuals of that century. I'd have to double check, but I think that matches up with a lot of the attitudes of the church in those centuries -> 'We can't have ordinary people understanding the mass/these texts' rather than the increasing secularism.

[@mfaizsyahmi]

People dunk on doctors for their illegible writing, but we the general public didn't realize the pain of having to read god-awful cursive writings of the late medieval period. My hot take is that it parallels the "grass writings" that is East Asian cursive writing. A prestige form of writing that has to be learned extensively to even beginning to make sense and draw some meaning out of pure noise. So that means only the elites have the time and resource to learn them.

@helen, have you ever studied aged maps created by men vs women do the directions vary? id think that different aspects of life would be more prominent, like a well vs a river crossing as gender roles formed their world view.

[@groezy]

her vocal fry is awesome

[@johndavidnew]

Two thoughts come to mind 1)mental maps... I'm bad with directions and won't ask for them. Please just give me the address 2)Theophilus is the name of my great grandfather 3) Dr. Davies is hot. Brains and beauty. 4)I can't count

[@ProgPiglet]

thank you sir crawford and dr duchess davies for existing

[@donnanobel514]

space comma

[@MuriKakari]

I do know where commas go if I think about it, but I do tend to default to something I actually learned in choir: punctuation = pause/breath.

[@andrewcrampton3433]

Laughing at how many people also watch Drachinifel here.

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

Vikings and warships in the house!

[@FlagstaffslowTV]

I heard that and was like "wait, what video did I click on?"

[@happiman9484]

If there's one thing I've learned by following you for years it's that you have wandered far in many fields.

[@BBC-dq3ki]

Aye Ohio

[@Ramngrim]

That about Scandinavian handwriting from the 1600s and 1700s...hell, yes! I've had to wrestle my way through some terrible handwriting and bad spelling from that time.

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

RIT = Rochester Institute of Technology?

[@gavinrogers5246]

Yup

[@gavinrogers5246]

I'm such a nerd ...

[@gypsydonovan]

I saw the title and got far too excited. It was a little embarrassing.

[@beepboop204]

🙃

[@septegram]

Around 49:00, talking about intelligibility makes me think of gang graffiti.

[@nikburisson9-pissedoffpeasant-]

I was just watching Laxardale saga.

[@nikburisson9-pissedoffpeasant-]

Dr. Helen Davies is dangerous(beautiful and wise).