Mega Fake Indian Head arrives with the next Mega Box from NGC

Im always amazed just how difficult some pre-33 fakes are to spot. A $5 indian head fake arrives back from NGC with the latest Mega Results Box
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[@james-br2gm]

NGC should detail exactly how it's a fake. I honestly can't see any issues, maybe it's the reeded edge we can't see like others have mentioned. If I was you numistacker I would be taking macro shots of every coin that comes back as fake and be logging it on a website or something. Maybe we can spot patterns that way.

[@jasonking7729]

AHHHHHHH!!!! NOOOOO!!! Gold is gold. Gold is Gold..... Wrong!!!! What an amazing show!!!! 👍 Liked, subscribed, and inspired! Thx!

[@andreg3912]

Another great mega unboxing, it's really hard to spot the fake if you don't have a genuine coin to compare.

[@Numistacker]

Yes very tough

[@healthbabe2691]

Hi Lumi, Thanks for showing another series of coins. Overall, I like the 2017 two sovereign the best. Would not mind to pick one up in the future. Regarding to the fake 1913 $5 Indian, I am not clear why the coin would be sent in to NGC at the first place. Does it make sense to perform our own measurements/experiments listed below if the coin is suspicious? 1) Resistance/Conductance measurements using PM verifier against the value measured from a known good piece. 2) Check its diameter and thickness against the spec listed in NGC/PCGS or known good piece. 3) Mass and density measurements with scale and beaker against the known good piece. 4) Magnet test. 5) Thorough Inspection under the micro scope could be helpful to spot incorrect/missing details. 6) Have local experienced dealers to check its authenticity if none of the above are helpful.

[@healthbabe2691]

Hi Crown Collector. Thanks for giving me an examples of this very issue. As a stacker and collector myself, it is my responsibility for my own cooking. Definitely I have verified all my acquisition with different measurements from day one. As a scholar, I always look for evidences to validate any claims and findings. I guess it is a personal choice for those whom prefer to pay the fee to authenticate any coins. At the end, we all eat our own cooking regardless the end result. I am thankful to have your blessing. Thank you. Honestly, I am not an opponent against anybody including you. It was hard for me to understand anybody's intention at the first place in the comment section without knowing the person or seeing other's body language. I have read couples of your messages from other videos and have little better understanding of you. You do make some good and valid points regarding to the subject matter in other videos and I can't deny them. Personally, I love feedback from others as long as they are constructive and I can learn from. I hope I can learn more in this community including from you.

[@clavacats2991]

$5 indian head fake: which part is fake ? is it real gold?

[@scotmacc]

Some nice coins on display. Pity about the fake Indian Head, you can't help but feel rotten for the owner. hopefully, it can be returned. Looking forward to the next lot. Cheers.

[@donaldinnewmexico]

Hi Numi! The Indian on the U.S. $5 1913 Half Eagle was winking! Ha! *:-)*

[@davidaaa6427]

Also on the 19 in the date Donald. Notice how it sits just a hair lower? I' m slowly learning!! :)

[@donaldinnewmexico]

Good eye David! *:-)*

[@goodasgold7167]

Piedfort or £2 double sovereign? I agree with you. I think that the garter detail on the larger 2017 Pistrucci coin is easier on the eye than the piedfort. I'm only in my third year of collecting and had not yet progressed onto gold coins when the 200th anniversary sovereigns were released. I watched your channel for glimpses of modern commemorative coins and had no interest in sovereigns. But then "the penny dropped" and I quickly came to appreciate the importance of historical coins. My collection is small but my coins are 3 impressive quintuples. Numistacker, my missus hates you, but I love you man!

[@Numistacker]

She will grow to appreciate me over time and if she wants a Target 🎯 for rotten tomatoes 🍅 the good old crown will oblige

[@stevareno6995]

xactly my point some of us are just "collectors" dont have scales , cant tell by "pings" , "feeling the weight etc. So we send to grading services. at least by comaring the code numbers by the codes on record at grading comany you have a fighting chance not getting screwed.

[@robertoperezcatalan3043]

Hola amigo buenas tardes interesantes vídeo impresionantes monedas felicitaciones gracias por compartir un abrazo 👏👏👏👏👏👌👌👌👌👌👍☺🙏

[@Revealthefactsbpsolanki3456]

Thanks for sharing 🙏

[@sander5086]

Great coins again, looking forward to box 2!!! To me the letters on the fake eagle, look taller then the original.

[@larrysylvester6795]

Numi those coin graders are relly good from what i seen that fake coin looked authentic

[@Numistacker]

They must see so many

[@johnnyc613]

Where does the line between bullion and collector coins draw a line ? I assume pre-1933 USA coins carry a premium over a government or generic billion coin??

[@marvin508]

5:26 - Maybe I'm wrong because I'm not an expert. I noticed the more square fake coin text. I'm about to buy one and I'm researching the fakes. very good explanation

[@SilverLimey79]

Very nice Slabs there! Wow

[@Juan_Doooh]

So since the Indian is not genuine, wouldn’t that be a more suitable candidate to use in jewelery.

[@Davidka1978Xoroshiy]

Give size and weight specs of the bad coin

[@kevinw9073]

A reputable dealer WILL have a metal scanner to verify the purity of silver and gold. No other excuses are needed.

[@mustaqahmed9812]

When you put genuine & fake side by side it's pretty easy to find out otherwise it's very difficult for lot of peoples to identify the fake one.

[@newnorth1100]

Wow that coin would have definitely fooled me. Got to be careful.

[@markbass354]

real nice video Numi , much thanks

[@sparcx86channel42]

the problem is buying coins with these slabs

[@RockHudrock]

Is the non-genuine incuse Indian still 90% gold? (is it still at least worth melt?)

[@SmartChannel01]

Some of the fakes were made in other countries from pure gold to use in jewelry so check the composition

[@meteoman7958]

Would have fooled me. I would like to know so much more. What is the weight, what is the metal content? What are the giveaways?

[@meteoman7958]

Thanks Crown, I was referring to the 1913 half eagle and the details that show it is a fake.

[@shaunoliver1703]

I thought t was fake on the cheek/nose area but if I am honest if I wasnt looking at 2 next to each other its a very tough call. Great fake and hats off to the maker because alot of graft has gone into that (**I believe someone has challenged themselves to do a perfect copy rather than to con someone)

[@Numistacker]

Would you have picked it? It would be interesting to test

[@shaunoliver1703]

Its difficult to say as you know I have a very limited pot of capital to work with as a dealer. I very rarely buy from individuals but if the price was right I probably would of bought tbh had it not been in the presence of other of the same type of coin. Due to my size as a dealer I thoroughly go through all of my stock and compare with the same coin, I do this for 2 reasons, firstly I can I find rarer coins that the larger bullion dealers miss out and secondly it means my quality control is good. Chances are had it been within a good price range and come from an individual and I didnt have another coin to check against I probably would of bought it :)

[@shaunoliver1703]

Also I wouldnt be shocked if it is the correct metal composition, I think its a coin where someone is trying to make a perfect copy, like testing your own skill level. I dont think its a coin that has been made to be mass produced to sell at a profit.

[@shaunoliver1703]

@volcano hi Hello Volcano, Im a bit confused as to your comment. There are cases where coins are faked in terms of gold percentage and passed off as a rare coin or rare date. If its not gold its not gold but I didnt have the coin in hand to go through the appropriate due diligence, I was simply giving my opinion on a coin not in my possession :)

[@shaunoliver1703]

​@volcano hi I disagree with you but its academic really. There are jewellers copies and there are plenty examples of numismatic coins being faked with correct metal contents, for example I went to the canberra mint a couples of days ago and they had 4 very good copies of the 1930 penny - sure its not gold but they were good enough for the mint to feel they were worthy of showing and to the untrained eye it certainly would fool people. Saying that I dont know enough about American coinage to know what the key dates are and I am happy to acknowledge that most gold coins and bars that faked are either lesser purity or being passed of as gold with the basis being another metal which has changed over the years. Fun fact for those that dont know platinum was once used :) All the best Shaun

[@lumpylumpy3931]

I have four from 1909 D $2.50 wonder what the value is

[@officeguy3]

Great video Numi. Fantastic coins. When NGC determines that a coin is fake, do they let the owner know the reason why? It's too bad the 1913 $5 Indian Head is fake.

[@Numistacker]

No they do t really say

[@MrSinobi52]

I can't tell. On to the LCS to check all mines tomorrow.

[@garrycroft4215]

I couldn't tell that fake. I scan all my coins which weeds out all that are made of the wrong metal ct. or tungsten filled etc. But IF its made from the exact same metal size and weight which I doubt then I would be screwed. I would love to scan it to find out. You may ask the owner if he/she would be willing to find out.

[@SilverScripter]

Indeed I am looking for a 1911 D. My dad is giving me a 1911 2.5$ gold coin I gotta cheak for that D

[@davidaaa6427]

I regret not getting the Mexico label on my proof Libertads. It makes the coins look so much better. I recall though when sending in all my 2016's it was still $10 but when I sent in my 2017's it had dropped to $5. Live and learn. :(

[@davidaaa6427]

Yes a picture make coin looka betta.

[@dougm.370]

I guess in the USA we know our coins so its easy to see it was a fake because we just don't look at the the strike we know weight and dimensions and we test the content to be sure. A 5 Dollar Indian is Metal Composition: 90% Gold - 10% Copper Diameter: 21.6 mm Mass / Weight: 8.36 grams or very close not over is how you can tell first then look at strike under 100 watt soft light to see the grade and then with a loop you can determine it's grade . I guess we see so many fakes we can figure it out pretty easy. Also conservation will not make a coin grade higher it just improves the look not the strike or the condition just make it have more eye appeal and if a coin was cleaned and they do conserve it will still come back as a coin graded as clean because conservation will not repair damage to original luster or the fields so it will come back details grade.

[@andrewhart6200]

I had 5 and of the 5....two of them weren't gold coins but they were 18k gold fakes...strange

[@melbedewy]

Was there ever an answer as to whether this was a gold fake or a non-gold fake?

[@Numistacker]

No it was given back to the owner and I’m not aware it was tested

[@robertbrandywine]

I got stung on a $5 Indian, 1912, I believe. When I tried to sell it years later, the LCS owner spotted it immediately. I bought it off the Web, and I would only buy 2 1/2 and 5 dollar Indians off the Web if they were slabbed.

[@kking5652]

The 1913 $2.5 dollar Indian would have fooled me .

[@johnmarks227]

That's why we weigh them.

[@albatayneh]

😲😲😲

[@ZXC_ZXC1]

What is the advantage of crossing over the PCGS coin to NGC? I know NGC is dominant in older world coins but here in the USA PCGS is dominant for USA coins.

[@qiandavy8208]

i think NGC is better for modern coins while PCGS doing China? The price is double than NGC from China auctions

[@jennc8554]

Wow I think that coin would have fooled a lot of us. 😜

[@Numistacker]

It was so genuine looking

[@tebanjose6928]

Not the CumCollector

[@jennc8554]

teban jose be careful what you wish for.

[@stirlingengine8754]

Indians often have orange discoloration at the deeper features such as the stars or the tips of the features. Also the orange/copper tends to just come to the surface as a part of the surface coloring. If the coin looks “too gold” that could be an indicator of a non-genuine coin.

[@willstaxx0730]

Yes you’re right bout that.

[@gabrielcornea9119]

was the fake made of real gold or just crap metal?

[@alexcurran5265]

Do you have a site where I can purchase coins of you thanks, great video 👍

[@infinitemonkey917]

Is the fake one gold ?

[@israelt.3739]

So please explain why is it fake . Show details pls

[@dwiwahyono1026]

Just engrave "Elizabeth Warren" on the fake indian :D

[@drwho6908]

Looks mighty suspicious from here.

[@667hodge]

The edges look a little different

[@Michel-7.7.7]

What is this 10mio struck peter rabbit even worth? I gave a 8 sided 1915 gold coin to my wife for our wedding day. She went to the jeweller who rounded of the corners to fit into her granny's medaillon. She didn't like the dolphins

[@that_happy_penny4607]

every fake I have seen cant get the size of the date right the 9 on the fake has a way longer tail then the real

[@davidaaa6427]

When is the proof Palladium Eagle coming back , Numi? :)

[@Numistacker]

David Argento it is shown as scheduled for grading )) but I asked for Photovision so I should get the pic soon

[@davidaaa6427]

Splendid. :) Hope you get a PF70. I've been watching some of the sales and found that a raw coin gets more money than a PF69 on many occasions. But like myself I doubt you will be selling your coin.

[@grantv2313]

What did the reeded edge look like on the fake. Many times the reeded edge is the giveaway but you didn't show it.

[@Numistacker]

Will try to remember to show it on the next one

[@ابواحمدالملك-ث7ظ]

@@Numistacker الو

[@coinstacks2455]

🖒

[@israelt.3739]

Very peaceful and lengthy and calming way to avoid giving a useful info?? Sorry to ask you this question..

[@9999-r9b]

I’m Really don’t understand, it’s hard to understand 👎🏽

[@Birdy-by9cg]

Thx for sharing

[@ctaber2011]

I have a 1911-D but its only a AU55 :(

[@smack_dab]

Hey Numi, do you ever submit "bulk" orders to NGC?

[@Numistacker]

Not yet but if you have 100 of something to grade with me I will start

[@smack_dab]

I guess im not 100% sure how it works. I thought it was 50. Oh well Thanks for responding