Megatron and his Problematic Alt Mode

#megatron #transformerstoys #transformers
PART 2: • Megatron and his Alt M...
Today we start a two-part video about Megatron and his Alt Modes. Today we cover his two more iconic alt modes; the original P-38 Walther from MicroChange and his ever re-used tank.
All images are from TFWiki.net unless otherwise stated.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

The second part is now live. Look for it in the description!

[@MurdermiesteR]

The most poetic part of Megatron is that he was the leader who's true power was the ability to have his will carried out by his followers.

[@MisterFanwank]

You mean the best alt. mode ever. Guns are cool in every year.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

When you take the G1 toy by itself and play with it as intended in MicroChange, it's a phenomenal toy with a unique look that has a ton of personality. I actually like that toy so much over G1's design that's why I used its art in the thumbnail. All the Decepticon toys from 1984 were great.

[@MurdermiesteR]

The gun is the only fit for Megatron. The entire dynamic of what makes him great is the relationship of weapon and wielder.

[@saysoun752]

I still have my G1 Megatron in box sealed. I also have the rerelease in which he's in like black chrome colors and that's still sealed. Never bought any tank Megatron until now as I bought the Nemesis Bridge 3 pack in which it comes with Soundwave, Shockwave and tank Megatron. Hasbro just shipped it out today so I'll have my very first tank Megatron in a few days.

[@TheaverageQueerperson-vq4wv]

fictional guns are cool. Real guns gace your wounds

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@TheaverageQueerperson-vq4wv Would a real gun even work on Megatron? We will never know.

[@Radd1976]

During the first season of Transformers, and the first wave of toys, the young me was on a flight from Boston to Canada (Nova Scotia was the ultimate destination), and I pulled out a transformed Megatron out of my gym bag of Transformers. A passenger saw me basically pull out a gun on a plane. My cousin, Pearl, who was sat next to me saw that passenger. I noticed her noticing him, and I quickly made the connection. Transforming Megatron into robot mode as quick as I could, I showed the passenger, "it's a robot". (LOL)

[@tripleairgoddess]

The Goat: G1 Megatron. Pissing people off like a Great Decepticon Leader should. Hail Megatron!

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

lol. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it.

[@robertphillips5459]

It's not the worst alt mode, it's the classic alt mode!❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@spongeboymebob771]

Classic doesn't always mean good tho

[@bigpauliep6992]

The gun showed that Megatron had absolute control over his followers. The fact that he could transform into something small enough to fit into the palm of even his "traitorous" Lieutenant, Starscream's, hand, yet wasn't immediately thrown to the floor and blasted into a thousand pieces, is testament to his will and influential leadership. He could, quite literally, transfer his power into another's hand, knowing full well that his orders would be carried out, and nobody would seek to overthrow him at his most vulnerable. That's pretty bad**s when you think about it.

[@alphatrion100]

You mean the BEST alt mode ever.

[@FavioAlcides]

the original Megatron was a pretty ugly toy in robot mode with a huge erection, which was chosen simply because a weapon was a cool toy, but the transformation itself paled with the rest of the decepticons

[@gangwu4541]

I love gun megaton. It’s cool and unique.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

The original is a great toy too.

[@Cadeho3]

At least 2 times Megatron shot by himself, not including the intro. He doesn't need anyone to handle him. Also I will throw this in, he was never a small gun except the one time he fit in a case... and he can get so large he covered the entire underside of Starscream and more.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I haven't watched G1 properly in what must be 15 years, just my favorite episodes. I did not recall G1 Megatron ever firing by himself. I found one picture, but not the episode it came from. Do you remember both episodes? I did remember him being underneath Starscream's vehicle mode though. That said, I think the movie being so influential on virtue of being not only a good movie but the most easily consumed G1 media paints a lot of how characters are remembered. I would say Shockwave is more notable for being a large gun that fires by itself than Megatron and truth be told, I'm pretty on board with what Siege did to him.

[@IndyCrewInNYC]

​@@SGD_ToysDownUnder I believe "The Ultimate Doom" part 3 was one where he fired while suspended mid-air.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@IndyCrewInNYC Ah, yeah. That's a series of episodes I usually skip lol. More a Season 2 and 3 kinda guy. I'll check them out for the scene though. Thanks!

[@Mcandy78gaming]

As an 80s kid megatron as a gun will allways be my favourite.but I think an artillery cannon could work and still keep the G1 robot look

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Flows really well into G1 Galvatron too.

[@casuallatecomer7597]

Yeah artillery cannon (or even a self-propelled artillery unit) I feel would be the best way for Hasbro to convey Megatron in toy form for a 21st century, gun conscious public audience (especially in Western markets). Plus it's not one that hasn't really been done (either for Megs or even for Galvatron). Both artillery and pistols are described as "guns" have the same purpose of "shooting people" but where a pistol can only take out a couple of guys, an artillery cannon will take out everyone, the room they're in and everything else inside. Artillery is also nicknamed the "god of war" or "king of battle" which suits a warlord like Megatron perfectly.

[@DenverStarkey]

@@casuallatecomer7597 war for cybertron (video game and the toys for it ) had megatron as atank and it worked out great for his robot look still beijng close to OG cartoon look. as much as i loved the gun megatron (i had him as kid) it just never really worked as atoy good , you couldn't shrink and have other decepticons hold him , so he was jsut this huge german gun (walter p38 i believe). really made him only play well with otehr transformers as his robot mode .. and boy that mode look a million miles from the cartoon... but then again so did ratchet and iron hide.

[@judosteffer]

Will never forget when i took my G1 megatron on holiday and left him in alt mode as i saw him going through the x ray machine at the airport! I was only seven years old! Suddenly got surrounded my security unsurprisingly! Still my Megatron was turned back into a robot and got to fly separately in his own little box!

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

That's actually a funny story. You have to wonder how many issues G1 Megatron caused over the 80s.

[@crowejagerson3628]

You don't need the biggest gun when you are the biggest gun. . . He just so happens to also have the biggest gun.

[@demorunnertimmedrt4432]

I like Megatron as a tank. But I think he also works well as a cybertronian jet.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

The Last Knight Megatron is something I'd like to see returned to. That voyager is so sleek and works everything in so well.

[@demorunnertimmedrt4432]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder I'm honestly not a fan of him being just a jet. That's for the seekers.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@demorunnertimmedrt4432 I think that's the correct viewpoint. The Last Knight Megatron benefits from Nitro Zeus being the only other air Decepticon in the film.

[@StormX6]

I like the idea of Megatron becoming a tank. That way he gets to keep his fusion cannon turning into a barrel.

[@ToaArcan]

Megatron: A gun. Soundwave: A form of music storage that was outdated even before G2 started. Starscream: The most powerful fighter jet of its day, so far ahead of everything its rivals could produce that it's still a viable weapons platform 50 years on from its introduction into service.

[@mitchfletcher2386]

Well, Soundwave is supposed to be a spy.

[@ToaArcan]

@@mitchfletcher2386 Which is why he should turn into something that people would actually expect to see every day.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Don't worry, episode 2 touches on Megatron v Starscream from a similar perspective. Yeah, Soundwave is a toughy. The image of that recent three pack was chosen deliberately. I'd argue Soundwave and Blaster are the hardest of the G1 Roleplay toys to update, it's yet to be done successfully.

[@ToaArcan]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder It's all a gimmick thing, really. Soundwave's gimmick is that he has a bunch of little guys living in his boob that have to be part of the setup, and finding an equivalent to that is near impossible. Most of the time they completely phone it in, like Prime having Laserbeak just be Soundwave's chest, or WFCT having the little guys be shields that happen to be rectangles, or the Bumblebee Movie having Ravage just turn into a cuboid that does nothing. The closest they got to actually updating the gimmick is Cybertron, where Soundwave was a bomber and Laserbeak was just... the bomb.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@ToaArcan Yeah. I'm very much of the same mind. He and Blaster are both action feature first toys and without that they lose a ton.

[@zcgamerandreacts2762]

I saw a interesting post on Instagram where megatron was transformed into a BAZOOKA like one of those military bazooka that target planes. It can be mounted on another character. And at least he couldn't be crushed in starscreams hand.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I wonder if it was inspired by the original Marvel comics commercial? Megatron wields the fusion cannon as a bazooka in that.

[@casuallatecomer7597]

I'm with ya, Megatron becoming a bazooka/recoilless rifle would be, in my opinion, a much better step up from a dinky-ass pistol (especially one with a bunch of accessories that aren't going to be used for robot mode) while still being a "handheld" gun/weapon for other Decepticons to use. Side note: Bazookas were generally used against tanks. What you're thinking of is MANPADS (MAN Portable Air Defence Weapon), which are build differently from anti-tank rocket launchers like the bazooka.

[@diggityslice9023]

Imagine if we lived in a sane society and we could have gun Megatron without everyone freaking out about it.

[@DarthVoxyn]

All Hail Megatron! The gun mode is iconic. It embodies pure destruction which Megatron as the leader of the Decepticons would need to be

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Iconic yes. A problem for international markets since 1984 and now American? Also yes.

[@briansmith48]

That Nurf gun Megatron looked pretty sweet to me though. I wish I had one. 😊

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@briansmith48 I love mine. Not perfect, but a lot of fun.

[@jimdigitalvideo]

I live in Australia, and I noticed as a kid in the 80s, that I could never find Megatron in the toy stores. The first Megatron I found was G2 green tank Megatron. It wasn't until sometime in the 90s that I realized the reason I could never find gun Megatron in the toy stores was the fact that he transformed into a very realistic looking gun. I did find gun Megatron on sale, but only in sci-fi conventions in the last ten years. It's a pity green tank Megatron never showed up in the cartoons, only in Marvel comics.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

That's really interesting. I'm Australian too, hence the name :P . I've seen the Takara reissue at Supanova, but that's about it. This is back closer to 2005 or so though. I don't recall ever seeing a vintage one. I'm not sure what the laws were in 1984/85, but I can't imagine our stores would be on board.

[@worldwarrior1022]

If Takara/Hasbro like to stick to their guns, then I would want Megatron to transform into a sniper rifle and be like 6 feet on robot mode.

[@redflagwaving008]

That tank barrel fusion cannon problem is brilliant on the Cybertronian Megatron from the War for Cybertron game. Pound for pound one of the best tank Megatron figures.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Fantasy tank helps a lot, doesn't it?

[@redflagwaving008]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder Yeah! Its a lot harder with the realistic tanks. Just saw the second part of the video and those are great picks too

[@michaelaustin334]

It's all fun and games till someone Robs a store with him.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I need to research of the fabled "shot holding a toy gun that looked realistic" and "robbed a store with a toy gun" stories online have any truth to them. I know Megatron specifically doesn't, but it'd be interesting to find out.

[@animeking1357]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder Don't know if it's true but I read somewhere online that someone robbed a place (can't remember what) with an MP-36 Megatron.

[@foyoGames]

Ultimate Alt Mode Megatron ... a T-Rex

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Well, it's a perfectly viable option. Before the show completely changed the story, Beast Wars was a continuation of G2 and those were G1 Optimus and Megatron...

[@foyoGames]

@SGD_ToysDownUnder welp, we gotta see what other kinds of Guns, Phasers, or Blasters they came up with.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@foyoGames Bring Back The Dragon!

[@foyoGames]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder yessur

[@bitwize]

I think a lot of Megatron's issues could be solved if he transformed into an SPG (self-propelled gun). It's a vehicle that looks much like a tank but has a much larger cannon because it's more of a mobile artillery piece than a tank. This gives Megs a much more formidable fusion cannon while in robot mode while also enabling us to say "he transforms into a gun". His altmode also tactically supports his personality, as he can unleash volleys of devastating fire from afar.

[@braydenpage1808]

I personally really think Megatron as a tank is the natural and needed evolution. Megatron, the feared leader needing one of his subordinates to use him for his alt mode to have any function was dumb to me. Megs as a tank is so much better because he still invokes the firepower he had a a gun but on treds. He is a self reliant Decepticon like Megatron always should be. Either he's a Tank or i think the plane Megatron is pretty cool too.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I think there is a solid argument that all of the MicroChange toys need to be redesigned from the ground up for the same arguments.

[@arx3516]

Rather than a tank he should be a self propelled artillery unit.

[@rollin-kimblecroskey9110]

I absolutely love Combiner Wars, Siege & Armada's tank mode's plus Prime and The Last Knight jet modes.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

TLK Voyager Jet is such a great toy. It'd be cool to see that in a more traditional styling.

[@MikeC_337]

These toy companies need to let the collectors decide. 3rd-party companies make them and I've never heard of anyone mistaking it for a real gun. It's because no adult collector would use it. Being a tank is so generic.We already have Blitzwing, Brawl, Tarn, etc.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Adult collectors aren't the concern, it's retailers and laws on a global level. I'd imagine playtesting focus groups with children also factor into it too.

[@HarryVoyager]

"You remember that time you broke my transformer cog? I was stuck in gun mode for a year!" I was initially annoyed by the transformation to a tank, it from a story standpoint makes sense. That said, I sort of think they should snitch the mold from Blitzwing and make Megatron a Jet/Tank triple changer.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

It'd be perfect for Hasbro, every Megatron can be redecoed into Blitzwing.

[@HarryVoyager]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder Yeah. Didn't they do something like that with Optimus Prime and used a resculpt of the Octane for him a while back?

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Yep. I think they worked out pretty well, though the Velocitron Box Set Optimus Prime is way, way better than the normal retail Voyager.

[@MrTim2031]

I don’t know what everyone here thinks of the TF/ GI Joe crossover line, but they did solve the fusion cannon issue by making it a third cannon in the Hiss mode. Now the Hiss is a Sci-fi vehicle to begin with but it could be a starting point for what to do with it in tank mode. The M1-X concept has a centrally mounted 30mm, it’s not a far leap to replace that with a fusion cannon, if that becomes the new model for Megatron’s alt mode. It would be a bit like movie bumblebee as the concept Camaro.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I dunno man. I'm a fan of both franchises and think the fusion cannon plopped on top of a HISS looks silly. I looked up that Abrams tank, isn't that just Combiner Wars Megatron?

[@MrTim2031]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder look up Abrams-x or M1-X. It’s not a production Tank just a technology demonstrator that General Dynamics cooked up to try and sell the US gov more stuff. But it looks cool.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@MrTim2031 Yeah I found it, it just looks like CW Megatron to me.

[@snellsworld2648]

There is nothing in US code or laws that makes it hard to manufacture G1 Megatron in his. They're original alt mode of a gun. 9:20 very simple and clear. Hasbro just doesn't want to do it. And saying walmart doesn't want to carry it is just an excuse because the fan channel and making it a pulse exclusive could fix that issue.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

From what I can gather, yes, the orange cap / marking is the only actual legislation in place for the US. The problem however that the US isn't the only market and other countries are iffy on it, some prior to G2. America isn't even wholly on board, as NY has a harsher version of this where the toy has to be neon or translucent and big retailers were erring on that side 9 years ago now in that state. I got the information that Classics was a no go now from Aaron Archer's streams and tried to put the rest of the puzzle together via release dates and the wiki's information. You're right about Pulse and fan channels. BBTS did carry MP Megatron, but MP isn't the same as a normal Generations / SS release. It's cost already has the volume they're going to be able to sell to retailers baked in. Megatron would not be like MotU where the mold is an investment and pieces can be used infinitely. It's got limited repaints and the cost is going to have to reflect that if they went down that path. Then you hit do they think the consumer would pay what it has to cost for their margins? This video is strictly about normal retail on an international scale. MP and fan channel exclusives can of course do things retail can't, even if some markets have laws against the item.

[@Dontcareaboutoffending]

Been saying this, but morons on Facebook keep saying it "uhllegul" to make a toy gun... SMFH, not it's not... Probably the same people who wore masks in their cars alone during Covid. And it is simply, as you said, Hasbro doesn't want to, liability... Whatever. But Takara can.

[@biospark4758]

Retailers not wanting to pick it up isn’t an excuse; it’s a major consideration when budgeting for a figure. Pulse exclusives generally have smaller budgets because less people get them due to their exclusivity. That’s why most (if not all) exclusives are redecoes or retools.

[@snellsworld2648]

@biospark4758 It really is an excuse because from that logic you can pick some of the perfect goes and paint everything flat black and they would look like the real thing.

[@biospark4758]

@@snellsworld2648 are you saying that people can paint toy guns black to bypass Orange Cap Laws? That’s true, but, as the video pointed out, most toy guns these days are designed to look as much like a toy as possible, even when painted black. Megatron is based on a real gun, the Walther P-38, so if you painted him black, it would look like you were carrying a real Walther P-38. Most retailers don’t want to take that risk, which is why the only new gun Megatron figures we’ve gotten were from the Masterpiece line, since those are expensive collectors’ items rather than affordable general retail toys.

[@NZP208]

They coulda just made an explanation like the humans made it in the show or it was made so they can help the autobots, im surprised they even had him in the show

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I'd say "Gotta have the leader in the show", but for regions without Megatron, Soundwave was the leader.

[@VeritechGirl]

Solution Make Megatron a futuristic howitzer Huge cannon Huge robot

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

So basically Galvatron?

[@jonathanfeldheim6554]

that's the Megatron I got, with the big black ad ons--wouldn't you know I wasn't allowed to bring Megatron to school because they had this crazy rule you couldn't bring a GUN to school--isn't that the real reason they replaced him with Galvatron in the movie? *The Transformers Movie, that is.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Nah, they were moving onto 100% transformers original products in 1986 as they'd run out of Diaclone and Micro Change toys that they felt were marketable. Ultra Magnus is the last toy from either line.

[@misterbadguy7325]

I think another point that should be mentioned is that modern Transformers has avoided characters that require explicit mass-shifting. Sure, characters that implicitly change size over the course of transformation are still around, but it's more a case where they'd still be bigger than a person, and things only get wonky if you compare the relative sizes of their vehicle modes (Prime Arcee, for instance). The G1 situation where an altmode smaller than a breadbox turns into a ten-meter robot basically never happens anymore except for legacy G1 characters.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

That is actually a really interesting point I've never noticed or seen really discussed. Now I sit here thinking, that's absolutely true.

[@saysoun752]

Then you've got Astrotrain, Cosmos, Skyfire / Jetfire and others that are the complete opposite where they can fit the entire crew into their alt modes.

[@misterbadguy7325]

@@saysoun752 Yeah, but even then, I think the last time we got a proper shuttleformer that wasn't a G1 character was... what, Armada Jetfire? Astrotrain in Cyberverse?

[@briansmith48]

Well, in the live action Transformers movie that cube was huge, until a human touched it and it shrank so Shiloh could handle it. 😅

[@Warsie-Fan]

I broke my Megatron (this same toy) on its first transformation. The gun barrel was tight and snapped off. Not sure if it was because I was so young and didn't know what I was doing or if it was a quality control issue with the toy?

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Depends on what you were doing. The gun barrel isn't positioned like the show and while you can get it there, you have to force it which may break it. That said, it doesn't feel like a robust toy. A few toys of 1984 have that delicate feel to them. Not dodgey, but care needs to be taken.

[@MrAnim8orVideos]

As a guy who grew up in the 80's I loved Megatron's look in the cartoon and hated his robot mode as a toy. So much so that I never bought him. The gun looked amazing, but the robot looked pretty terrible imo. I still remember the jokes about how his crotch stuck out so much since it was the trigger section. And I disliked the idea of the size changing transformers back then (though I had a few of them including soundwave who admittedly looked cool in both modes). Side note, was there ever a kid who got shot by cops by mistake while holding G1 Megatron? Seemed like a disaster waiting to happen even to me as a kid.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I think it was feared it would happen, but never did.

[@nexusshark]

The reason why I don't like Megatron's gun mode is because it turns him into a little tool. A hand-held tool. And I can't help but think of Targetmasters when I see Megatron turn into a gun. I prefer if Megatron has a vehicle mode.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Yeah, a few people have mentioned Target Masters and I agree.

[@subteeninhumansamuraiamphi5019]

my head canon was he was cursed with becoming the most powerful weapon ever but because all of his energy was used in the blast that he needed someone to wield him and also making sure such power couldn’t be possessed by just one transformers

[@marcbenjamin6841]

You raise good points about both the gun mode and tank mode. I, for one, am a Tank Not Gun fan. I love Megatron being a tank. Especially in Earthrise, the alt mode and robot mode have many compromises they did not allow Optimus' Earthrise modes. Optimus' robot mode is better than his Siege's as well as his alt mode. The only flaws of the Earthrise alt mode are the gap in the back of the truck and the gas canisters on either side of his truck folding inwards whenever held incorrectly.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Earthrise Optimus is weird to me with how people soured on it over time. I remember when it came out how much people loved it. Hopefully SS86 satisfies.

[@andrewrichards312]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder I suspect, judging by Ultra Magnus being a scaled down and modified MP-22, that Commander Class SS86 Optimus will be a scaled down and modified MP-44.

[@DenverStarkey]

i was one of the rare kids to actually get the OG megatron. he disappeared fast .. with in months of his release US law around toy guns changed because of incidents with other toy guns . so megatron's production ceased after jsut a few months. making him one of the rarest transformers in the OG product line. When Hasbro used the movie to usher in new transformer toys , megatron was on teh cutting block from the get go. because hasbro wanted a new Decepticon leader they could actually produce for more than a year. saddly i had the original for all of 3 short years as akid , his arm broke and after that i just lost him... not sure what happened to him.

[@herbbot8241]

when i saw the robosen megatron tank i passed on it...i couldnt justify buying a wierd alt version of megatron

[@seanmc7128]

He wasn't problematic back in the day. Not at all.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

No one could have predicted it becoming an issue down the track.

[@Awgichew]

G1 Megatron is my favorite Transformers character. If Hasbro's upcoming Studio Series 86 doesn't have him change into a gun then there is no point in releasing him. I'm content with my MP36 Megatron.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I need to release a third part to this video as I'm finding more information about the original Megatron, but 86 Megatron cannot be a gun.

[@daved4120]

I had the G1 Megatron, my sister took it to school in 1986 and was expelled for "bringing a gun to school"...

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Bet your parents were fuming.

[@daved4120]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder I'm sure they were, but I was more pissed that I lost my Megatron, the school never gave it back.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

lol. Ever replace him over the years? Takara had some nice reissues 20 years back.

[@daved4120]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder No, never replaced him, I did end up with a pretty great collection though. I had all of the G1's except Megatron, Ironhide, and Trailbreaker. Had all the combiners, Predaking, Devaststor, Computron, Menasor, Defensor, and Superion (I think that's all of them), all of the triple changers, Dinobots, Fortress Maximus, and Trypticon, all the jets except Skywarp, and even a couple of the mail away ones like Reflector, and I think his name was either Camshaft. Sold all of them as a single lot for about $15K back in 1999. I wasn't a wealthy kid, I had a lot of family though, and I got one or two from each of them at christmas, birthdays, etc. I'm 47 now so I experienced all of the 1980's and 1990's toys, Masters of the Universe, G.I. Joe, Transformers, Thundercats, Silverhawks, MASK, TMNT, etc.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@daved4120 I'm more a 90s kid, so a fair few of those I didn't experience in their heyday.

[@stevenbaumann8692]

I wish Megatron was always a tank

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

It'd save us from a lot of debate today.

[@daved4120]

Have you seen the fully transformable Unicron toy in person? If you ever get the chance to visit Japan, in Yokohama at the Divers City mall, there's a permanent Takara exhibit with a lot of Transformers/Diaclones/micro change toys that were never released in the U.S. Some never released in Japan even, i saw this and walked up on a 3' tall unicron toy displayed in three different stages of transformation and stood there in awe. I have no doubt in my mind that it would have sold in the U.S. and Japan, but it was considered too expensive to produce when Transformers the Movie was still popular.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Do you mean the Haslab one? If so I've seen the box in person at a fair, not the item itself.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

The Diaclone stuff would interest me greatly. I have a good friend that lives outside of Tokyo, I wonder if he could get pictures for me.

[@daved4120]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder I've been looking online and can't confirm if the display is still at Divers City mall, if you google Takaratomy (one word) you'll find their site, it's mostly in Japanese but enough is in English to navigate it, there may be some info on where the toy museum is now.

[@MingeBorea]

as a gun enthusiast i adore the original figure and i really want to get one

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Takara has reissued it a bunch of times. If you can import it legally, it shouldn't be too hard to find if you have the money. Local speciality stores may also have some if you look in the right places. :)

[@davedixon2167]

Megatron was so bad as a toy compared to the onscreen character - and he was also the one many of us as kids weren't allowed to have, at least in my area. And I'm sure everybody had the story of the cousin of a friend of a friend getting stopped at the airport because of a Megatron in their suitcase, which didn't help with the parents. I like the sort of retcon of making him a tank though; that feels like it makes more sense.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

That's actually pretty interesting that his alt mode would cause an issue with parents. You don't really think about that aspect of it at all.

[@davedixon2167]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder Yeah, by comparison I got Shockwave no problem at all, big purple raygun vs more accurate pistol. All my toy guns were more cartoonish, except the one cap gun I had, which was this tiny chrome thing that looked like the gun-shaped cigarette lighters of the day.

[@matthewwilliams9200]

The gun megatron is the best

[@alienrefugee51]

I think you meant to say, Megatron and his problematic Bot Mode. His alt mode is glorious.

[@Mr.Crow1984]

I prefer the two alternative aproaches to megatron in other sieries. Keep a cybertronian aircraft mode - as seen in the movies, and transformers prime (my favorite redesign) Unique yet realistic vehicle - as seen in animated with the helicopter gunship, and transformers the last knight, with a jet mode that altho based on reality, is not a real fighter.

[@martinefrensoquigomez7835]

Yeah I mean, like, it's true Having an alt mode that has to be used by somebody else is pretty dumb On the other hand being a tank is pretty damn awesome, like tanks are cool, they are big imposing war vehicles and Decepticons are (mostly) meant to be warfare vehicles anyways so Yeah, G1 gun Megatron's alt mode is awesome, but in the end it doesn't offer much functionality

[@AFCManUk]

The whole 'We can't make Megatron a gun anymore" thing, really gets my goat! Galvatron = Space GUN Shockwave = Weird spaceship, but turn him upside-down and do a little tweak and he looks like his G1 GUN mode. Just retool Megatron so that he transforms into something similar to Shockwave, but retains his gun mode with some creative transforming. Megs, to me, isn't Megs without his gun mode.

[@ronaldzamora8850]

Galvatron is more like a space cannon with a hint of tank mode than space gun

[@AFCManUk]

@@ronaldzamora8850 True. But he does have a hold-able in the hand gun mode.

[@FyreCat3454]

It's so rich that Hasbro can produce Siege Battle Masters (like Blowpipe and Caliburst) who all turn into guns, but they can't even do a Megatron that turns into an alien gun.

[@ronaldzamora8850]

@@FyreCat3454 It was quite logical on the smaller size and meant to be handled by both Deluxe and Voyager size, I mean did they ever make a Voyager and Deluxe toy in Siege line and onwards that turns into a gun? They might make Megatron into a gun or alien gun if they release it in Battle Masters sub-line which will make him way smaller like his Generations Legend Class toy that was released more than a decade ago.

[@AFCManUk]

@@FyreCat3454 Not only that, but Takara still make Masterpiece versions of Megatron, that have his original Walther P-38 gun mode, as do many third party Megatron figures. They manage to get around the 'toy gun' law easily enough!

[@antwan121000]

hasbro could make another gun megatron if they wanted to , people seem to forgot hasbro also owns nerf a foam dart gun toy line that also has a its own subline thats a collab with fortnite anyone with more then two brain cells could look at the fortnite guns and realize alot of them are almost a one to one scale with their actual real life counter parts. so no Hasbro isn't scared to market guns to kids . also i like to remind everyone megatron is a genocidal tyrannical dictator thats a machine of war so being a weapon of war makes more sense

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

The lore doesn't really matter in this discussion. It's all about laws and which retail partners will carry what items, specifically the scope of mass international retail. On those fortnite toys though, pay attention to the colours chosen and the quality of the sculpt. That's a big part of why they are sold at mass retail. Do you want a Megatron in those colours?

[@antwan121000]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder yes

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@antwan121000 lol not the response I expected, but I am a huge, huge fan of G2 Megatron, so...

[@maipful]

I don't understand. In America, anyone can buy a real gun in a store, but toy guns are prohibited.. Here in Finland, it's just the opposite.. Käännä

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Different countries have different cultures and by extension different standards on what's ok and what's not.

[@williamhaynes4800]

Megatron's original official ALT mode was a P38 Fusion Cannon.

[@driftwood9705]

Megatron should be a AHA 64 Apache helicopter or maybe like Blue Thunder color scheme too or Whort Hog military plane or AWAX plane maybe they could make that round sensor a shield or a big military colored Sikorsky helicopter.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Just make him a crossover toy. Cobra Rattler.

[@Zero8880]

Transformers Prime version of Megatron has always been my favorite.

[@timk1719]

Stealth Bomber Megatron was actually really good. The Hasbro toy was only okay, but there was an excellent 3rd-party version. His internal monologue in the comic regarding his new altmode was on-point as well.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

My mate is a fan of the idea. He's very much of the mind Megatron should always have a flying alt mode. I've never been keen on the stealth bomber, but I'll try to find that comic panel. I'm curious on the reasoning.

[@biospark4758]

I think the solution to make the Earthrise mold work is to have a 5mm port lower on his back. That way you can mount the tank barrel in a way that replicates his G1 gun barrel (or just embrace the G2 aesthetic and have a way to mount it pointing over his shoulder)

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I'd like to see them put the barrel on an armature where you can choose your own adventure; back, hip or shoulder. Or just use 5mm ports and cheat. Probably cheaper on the budget lol.

[@ElizaWheeler79]

Can we all laugh at the hypocrisy of Walmart having "issues" with a toy gun, considering they have firearms dept

[@kingbeef66]

I don’t mind Megatron being a tank, but I still dig his gun mode which is iconic. The realistic gun issues aside (God I miss the 80’s where there weren't too many fusses over toy guns.). The gun mode still has nuances with him providing streamline firing and targeting for battle in small areas or targeting nimble and small targets. I mean with the battle on the Autobot shuttle in the movie showed that his gun mode was very efficient in battle to pick off different Autobot crewmembers in a small area with concentrated heavy blasts with no extreme damage to the shuttle. Megatron using his fusion cannon or transforming into a tank in a small area for battle would be imprudent, with him unable to aim at small nimble targets with big blasts when his gun mode can easily snipe at them with precision.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Actually, this raises a problem I never considered. Unless you do an unreasonably large fantasy tank, it's about half the size of an F-15 Jet. Attack Helicopter and F15 are about the same size though.

[@isuckatusernames4297]

always hated alt modes that require massive mass-shifting. it misses the point and challenge of making a transfirming bot.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I get that, but given the source of the original toys, it was either this or have some weird setup where you avoided all the MicroChange toys in creating Transformers. Maybe this is Starscream's time to shine?

[@ShinyRowletGuy]

Very well made

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Thanks! I really appreciate it :D

[@fanboyofabandonedthings481]

Nowadays, besides legal reasons, involving the moral dilemma of licensing realistic toy guns to children, it makes sense why nowadays, Megatron is usually a tank, jet or occasionally a helicopter, because they really fit him a lot better and are a more fitting rival to Optimus Prime’s truck mode. Of course the gun mode is iconic for fans of G1, including me, especially since I have MP-36, but in my opinion, it worked there because the cartoon was goofy by nature, and it worked for the era it debuted in, where realistic toy guns were kinda the norm, especially overseas, and nowadays, where things, especially in terms of logic and story, and ESPECIALLY gun laws and saftey, are taken a little more seriously, it makes more sense for the formidable leader of the Deceptions to have a powerful and equally beefy alt mode in the form of a flying vehicle or tank that doesn’t make him the predecessor to the Targetmasters lol

[@TheACcam]

The real issue should be G1 Megatron's robot mode. Talk about being triggered. 😅

[@zcgamerandreacts2762]

Starscream. I'M TRIGGERING

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

lol, yeah, ever the joke, but truthfully, I really like that toy. More so than the fan favorite Soundwave too.

[@chriss1757]

The biggest problem with his alt mode was it’s so iconic and they are basically banned from using it. Same with his fusion cannon! It’s very obviously a gun scope. So, no matter what mode you give him, you have to incorporate a gun scope!

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I think Animated does a good job of making it into a sci fi canon.

[@jakejager]

Nothing wrong with him being a gun other than the mass shifting they had to do. Also, the 80's toy never actually fired anything. If anything it's the robot mode that's problematic...

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Regulations and laws in a lot of places on a global level would disagree. I found out a lot more information after this video and reconsidered some other information I deemed irrelevant at the time and it really seems like he was an issue from day 1 and a big issue by 1989. The only market outside of Japan to get him after his initial release is China in 1989.

[@jakejager]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder meh, babies whining about how terrible guns are doesn't make a bad toy 😋

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@jakejager never said it was a bad toy, I feel quite the contrary actually, but just doing research today I found reports of kids being shot by cops for toy guns dating back to 83.

[@jakejager]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder yeah, always been okay with the orange plugs, especially if they're removable for collectors but back in the 80's we had some toy guns that were exact replicas of real guns...I mean EXACT. I had a Mac10, Uzi and several pistols that looked like the real deal. Those I get changing but Megatron...so small for a real Lugar style gun. That said, we got masterpiece Megatron and that's a giant Lugar... All that to say we didn't have issues with police shootings as often, even in our neighborhood which was pretty poor because we were always told to put those things down if approached by a cop. I think it's all about that attitude and what your parents teach you because I now carry a real gun regularly AND interact with the police without being shot so it is possible.😉

[@ProtoceratopsLives]

I’ve always thought a tank was a natural, if boring, choice for Megatron as a character. Ever since the first Bayformers movie, I’ve kind of liked the idea of Megatron retaining his Cybertronian form… as though he sees emulating Earth machines as being beneath him.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I think that's a pretty natural way to take the character too. If we were to be honest, realism went out the window in 1985 with the Dinobots, Insecticons and Shockwave, but I still feel there is something to be said for Megatron at the very least being made to fit in with the realistic 1984 cast. It can go both ways depending on priorities.

[@GamerbugUK]

Nice video. Personally I was never that big a fan of the gun mode (and the gun made the original robot look ass!), and the tank is way better, but those issues you point out (the big treads, the fusion cannon not really being the full barrel) always seem to naff the figure up. I could see a say leader class Megs (voyager sized but way more engineering) potentially solving some of those issues (long thin barrel sliding back into the fatter central fusion cannon, treads folding down flatter). Alternately maybe time for a new alt for Megatron, something like an attack chopper would be nice and would make him more mobile and devastating.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Check out Part 2 when it comes out. It covers a bit of this :)

[@GamerbugUK]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder Look forward to seeing it.

[@michaelweiss5320]

Well, to be a leader, you don't have to do everything in order to function, you just need to lead. Being an overgrown "Targetmaster" added a very interesting feature to Megatron's character, he can't go it alone, he needs his troops. If you notice, Megatron treats his troops well, he doesn't smack them around call idiots, needs them. The idea of being the overwhelming singular threat was at one time Devastator, then Omega Supreme, and then...Unicron. Megatron's gun mode was powerful, but also his vulnerability. Also, this insinuates why Starscream is even there, constantly by his side. This is not a keep enemies closer situation. Starscream is Megatron's prefered gunman, and in one episode, Megatron attaches to Starscream's jet mode, that's why I headcanon call Megatron a "Targetmaster", the ability to attach to the vehicle. This also suggests why no matter how obnoxious Starscream got, Megatron would never outright kill him. Not until he became Galvatron, he simply didn't need Starscream anymore, and was done putting up with him. Also, Starscream is the only Decepticon who converses with Megatron, all the other Decepticons just report in. To think Megatron kept Starscream around for conversation, and to pull his trigger. But yeah, trying to make a tank that turns into a robot, that looks like it turns into a realistic handgun.... that is HIGHLY problematic. I totally agree. You're gonna get an alien looking tank, with giant handgun parts on it.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Does anyone outside of Starscream and Soundwave actually use Megatron in G1?

[@JonCombo]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder Optimus Prime has.

[@BennyLlama39]

Title: "Megatron and his Problematic Alt Mode" Me: As someone once said, "I don't see the problem." Then again, I'm not some braindead Karen. 😒

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Lawmakers and stores sure do though.

[@matiasmarcelotoledop]

I don't care what people say, Megatron being a gun doesn't makes sence a tank its the perfect alt mode for Megatron, yes some of the new toys aren't great but a tank it's so much more fitting for Megatron

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Can't say I disagree. I really like that G1 toy, but G2 Megatron is one of my favorite Megatron toys too.

[@matiasmarcelotoledop]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder plus introduced the best alt mode that Megatron should've had from the beginning

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Transformers really needed more investment from Hasbro and I think that should have included new toys to supplement the existing Micro Change and Diaclone toys.

[@JonCombo]

I always took it as he needs to focus to maximize damage when in gun mode.

[@allhell138]

Quite literally the coolest toy ever

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

It sure is a great toy, but times were different 40+ years ago.

[@garrettlundy3959]

If I had my druthers I’d make a limited edition Megatron that turns into a 1:1 Walther Q5 Match

[@icdeadpipol]

still remembers that funny Robot Chicken scene where Megatron has to press the trigger repeatedly between his legs to fire his Cannon (scope) while Starscream and co are looking at him (probably with either confusion or disgust)

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

lol! That's a funny one.

[@edr3158]

Megatron's robot mode was even more problematic and disturbing than his alt mode.😂

[@raymondchong1607]

MP-36 restores Mighty Megatron!

[@nintendoconvert4045]

Whose idea was trigger crotch? 🤣

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

It's just how Gun Robo works, Magnum and Browning share the same design trait. It's likely caused by the decision to make the handle into the legs.

[@karatgaming5792]

0:03 Megatron's right hand looks so bizarre in his first artwork, almost like a deformed robot claw beneath his huge fusion cannon. But nitpicking aside, still a great review!

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Oh I didn't notice that till you pointed it out. Weird.

[@karatgaming5792]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder Lol yeah, it's one crazy detail that the original artist from 1983 never noticed til years after getting the toy launched.

[@SasamiTM]

I understand they don’t want make him a gun anymore but I think they should include like a blaster-pistol with megatron toys as a little nod to it that could be used as a off hand weapon or posed with star scream

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Kingdom Core Megatron did that and it was really well liked. I totally agree, they should keep his gun being his original toy.

[@curthollon2043]

the masterpiece starscream and the original mp 1 prime did also and they are to scale with the figures

[@KazuyaMithra]

Transformers fans: NO MEGATRON CAN'T BE A GUN! NO HE HAS TO BE A GUN! Gold Lightan, meanwhile: *exists*

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I'm not sure if Gold Lightan is better or worse lol.

[@jj-sc1kq]

I didn't like it at the time. But Armada Megatron grew on me pretty fast. I actually wish I had picked up more toys during that time.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Armada Megatron comes up in the second half that just went up. It's got a neat callback to the original Megatron :D

[@summer20105707]

I will always say a gun. But since we can't have gun Megatron anymore I'd say tank. I love the look of the GI JOE Hiss tank Megatron. But the best Megatron figure is MP36 by a landslide.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Even though I like both brands, I never pulled the trigger on the crossover toys. I'll probably grow to regret that.

[@TheGundamsword]

I never liked him turning into a gun. Even the toy designer hated the idea of a giant robot turning into a tiny gun. A tank makes more sense. Personally, I think he should be an A10 Warthog.

[@BlastHardcheeseable]

Can you think of a better way to teach kids that guns are bad than by having an evil cartoon villain transform into one? Also, Megatron's gun mode was considered problematic from the moment Hasbro released the original toy line in America.

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

I have an idea: make a MEGATRON that turns into a REAL GUN and then sell it like you would an actual gun 😮

[@jonathancoolidge4594]

I do think back and wonder how it was that I had a toy that looked exactly like a real gun, and worse yet, the kind used by Nazis.

[@Exaris79]

Wonder how Takara's Missing Link G1 Megatron will look like. Obviously the gun's trigger and nozzle could be moved back and up. These improvements will make the toy look totally different to still make it look like G1 Megatron toy. Guess Takara has to decide if it will proceed with the change or leave the trigger in its place.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Isn't the point of Missing Link to take the original toy and give it modern articulation, not design it to match the cartoon? If you aim for the cartoon, it's based on the prototype of MC-13, not the finished product. I suppose you could go back to the prototype and start from there.

[@NinjaNakabim]

Huh. Truth be told, you being an aussie i thought it was going to be some thing about how terrible guns are, but yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Hasbro/takara need to give megatron more love. Siege and kingdom prime are some of the best primes we ever got and megs sort of falls flat. Although i do think some of the remold/redeccos are great (like green g2 tank and miner megatron). I subscribed, this video was great!

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Thanks for the sub! I only bought the G2 deco myself, but I really want them to revisit the G2 form factor.

[@user-ub2xe5yb8i]

Nice Bols, bro

[@Xerock]

Honestly neither form worked, from a playable perspective. It was a gun for the child so the other decepticons couldn’t use it and the robot form had almost no articulation

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Similar can be said for all the role play toys. I'm of the belief all of them need new alt modes because of this.

[@Big-Image]

If I were to give Megatron an alt mode besides a gun, tank or a cybertronian vehicle, I would have him scan a top secret government weapon. In other words, I'm going to have Megatron transform into a Metal Gear.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

That'd actually be really interesting as a crossover figure. Potential Shockwave redeco/remold too.

[@HeyZeusMtz]

Animated had an interesting answer to that. I'd really like a new version of that toy.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Animated is a big part of the second video ;)

[@HeyZeusMtz]

@SGD_ToysDownUnder I'm glad because if Megatron needs a disguise, it's tactically sound for him to fly, as he often does.

[@metrosaurusrex7012]

I was thinking maybe Megatron could transform into something functionally the same as a gun, but not shrinking. My idea was maybe a turret, an AA gun, a cannon, or a rocket/missile launcher. Maybe even when he needs to have someone to pull the trigger, it's parasitic. Maybe he mind controlled the other guy or maybe he uses other robot's energy to shoot the laser.

[@sophieprime4669]

A cannon is kinda galvs' deal

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Could just do something unique where Megatron is a Headmaster and mans a howitzer transtector or something.

[@freddyvidz]

I like the idea of Megatron being a gun, but the toy sucked. I would’ve liked Megatron transforming into a tank in G1

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Pity there wasn't a toy existing at the time for Hasbro to use.

[@walterlopez5054]

idea ive been kicking around for a while: make Megatron a triple changer. but not the usual fighter jet/tank combo we get from convenient Blitzwing repaints. Megatron should specifically be an A-10 Warthog, and a Gepard Anti-aircraft platform. the A-10 is an airplane specifically design to carry a gun that turns tanks into swiss cheese. Megatron would take this form as a threat to his land based forces, who are mostly tanks and construction vehicles. the Gepard alt mode serves as a similar threat to his airborne troopers. in short, his alts modes should be a threat to his own men. a means of keeping them in line. "Cross Megatron, and you will be Annihilated."

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

Another commenter was saying that they had a distaste for the mass size shifting characters. It actually left me wondering if Blitzwing should have been Megatron in the first place. You lose a ton of great toys excluding MicroChange, but you avert a lot of problems the brand has today.

[@walterlopez5054]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder well, the diaclone tooling that became Blitzwing didn't really exist in 1983 when transformers was first being wrangled together for its launch in 84. Also, the microman Walther mold was chosen specifically because all the attachments (scope, stock, rifle barrel) served a similar purpose as Prime trailer/battle station. Making the 2 commanders into a similar stature and price point.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@walterlopez5054 I wasn't aware that the Diaclone Triple Changers were August 84 till I looked it up just now. I knew Diaclone ran into 84, just not how far. Yeah, choosing a toy priced up to the same as Battle Convoy / Optimus Prime makes perfect sense.

[@andrewrichards312]

@@walterlopez5054 I thought it was because both robots were the exact same height. That's always been the official story I've heard bounced around. Or are you specifically referring to why they chose MC-13 over MC-12?

[@D4NDRUFFD4VE_THEFL4KEM4STER]

as an american, the only problem i have with megatron's gun mode was the fact that literally ANYONE could pick him up and use him, or throw him into a metal box and keep him there, or use him to kill his own troops, or just YEET him into a pit of lava, or a furnace, or a trash compactor. his gun mode was a huge liability, on top of being useless because he already had a bigger, better gun attached to his arm.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

So what you're saying is that Starscream needs to develop BM Megatron's Transformation Virus... interesting.

[@D4NDRUFFD4VE_THEFL4KEM4STER]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder thats... not what i said at all. basically, what i said is that megatron is a dumbass who made a dumbass decision to become a dumbass gun instead of doing the smart thing and becoming an airplane or a tank. then again, a big part of g1 megatron's character was being a big evil doofus.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

@@D4NDRUFFD4VE_THEFL4KEM4STER Yeah, I know. It's just where my mind went, you could get a perfectly viable Starscream victory plot out of it. More so if you use Action Masters as a plot point, provided the virus doesn't devolve that like it does Transmetal. Transformers has such a rich lore that you can pull bits and pieces from different areas to make something interesting.

[@andrewrichards312]

@@D4NDRUFFD4VE_THEFL4KEM4STER Only when you look at the Sunbow Cartoon and the Marvel comic, he didn't make the "dumbass decision"; Teletran-1 did in the cartoon and A.U.N.T.I.E. did in the comic.

[@cernstormrunner7263]

Man, i remember being a kid and picking up a Megatron figure in the store, and putting it back because of how crappy his robot mode looked. Kind of wish i had gotten in and kept it in the box.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

I think it has its charm, like Ironhide/Ratchet, but I can totally understand that.

[@andrewrichards312]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder The Onebox Cherry Vanette is brilliant in its original release - a van which turns into power-armour similar to the AMP Suit from Avatar, along with a 2-man tank, where the second pilot mounts an observation platform, at the back of a missile launcher. The thing i find ridiculous is that Ironhide was definitely a casualty of a decision of "Autobots are cars and Deceptions are millitary vehicles". When you actually look at MC-18 Magne Man up close, it's patently obvious, from the shape of the head, to the colour scheme, to the shape of the arms, that Ironhide was originally meant to be a rebranded MC-18. However when that design edict came through, it's clear that they went for the next best thing in terms of design and both inverted CR-02's colours and amagalamated the design with MC-18 for the animation model. Let's face it, given that Sunstreaker was meant to be Tigertrack and Sideswipe was meant to be Spin-Out, it's not the first time that things got a little crazy with the development of the 1984 toy line and season 1 of the cartoon.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

The original toy works fine for Diaclone and a similar toyline, but we all know how Transformers fans took to the van. Honestly, I'm firmly on Team Ute for Ironhide when you look at the character from the Transformers lense. I did not know about the MC-18 Ironhide connection though, it's plain as day. Sideswipe / Sunstreaker having their bios and decos swapped is really interesting. I knew about the Seeker Tech Specs mix up, but not that. Makes sense out of MTMTE though.

[@andrewrichards312]

@@SGD_ToysDownUnder The problem was and still is that there are a lot of fans out there that have a level of knowledge which doesn't match their passion. There are a lot of people out there who don't know for example that the first Transformers ever made were the Powerdashers (only by about 6 months though), about the tech specs mixups, or that the Combaticons, Stunticons, Aerialbots, Protectobots and Metroplex were all meant to be part of the one toy sub-line and that the reason for the weird base modes for each of those combiner torsos, is because they turn into additional modules for Metroplex' city mode. That's before you get into asinine arguments like "G1 ended before the 1986 movie", or "G1 ended with the Pretenders because I hate Pretenders". That's where Ironhide and Ratchet fall into problems. Not only is there that lack of obscure knowledge out there, but people's perceptions are clouded by pre-internet nostalgia goggles, where, if you don't know about Diaclone, which none of us did as kids, Ratchet and Ironhide having no visible robot heads, makes no sense and really does look stupid and their alt modes do make for terrible standalone robots. The van modes work when done well, it's just that the bad repurposing from the getgo really did tarnish the nostalgia goggles when looking at their van alt modes.

[@SGD_ToysDownUnder]

""G1 ended with the Pretenders because I hate Pretenders". *Looks at document of topics* I'm in danger. In all seriousness though, I got into MotU heavily with Origins and I think there is a big divide between not only Mattel and Hasbro's attitudes, but the vibes of the communities. MotU's is way, way more into the origins of He-man. There are multiple documentaries, a beloved blog, Mattel themselves push it. While there are some resources for "Pre-Transformers", it's not really discussed as a thing very much and Hasbro is barely interested beyond repaints to get more product out. I know a bit of Diaclone, MicroChange, the non-Takara toys of 85, Mysterians, the Diaclone hold overs and the GI Joe Microman connection ect, but it's mostly about the context of the lines and colours, not really the unique molds that were left unused outside of Magnum, so the padlocks were news to me. I'll get to your big post when I get a chance, just wanted to get some replies out this morning.