Melbourne Metro Tunnel // How will it change the network?

[@Taitset]

Some more reading/watching on this topic: Marcus Wong post about the wider network changes being de-scoped: wongm.com/2022/11/wider-network-enhancements-and-the-metro-tunnel-project/ Melbourne On Transit blog about off-peak frequencies: melbourneontransit.blogspot.com/2024/02/un-169-maximum-waits-versus-line.html Philip Mallis video about tram changes happening with the Metro Tunnel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXvch3SGg7tonLssi=1PoHbte5qfsMHr6Y The Big Build site I referenced: bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/metro-tunnel/about/overview/benefits-for-your-train-line Enjoy the video? Consider supporting the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset

[@jeremyzorek]

As an American studying at university along NJ Transit's Northeast Corridor Line, I'm very glad about my new connections directly to Melbourne :)

[@nomadMik]

I travel between Providence and Sydney every year, and always visit Melbourne, too. A cool new rail connection between Providence and Melbourne is certainly going to make the XPT to Sydney look really crappy. 😏

[@ianmontgomery7534]

careful you don't end up in Florida!

[@shraka]

Finally, you'll be able to get good coffee! Though you'll have to sell a kidney to afford it.

[@andyturbo]

? Melbourne in Australia is significantly larger than Melbourne in the US. Most globally hear Melbourne and know its Australia.

[@helixator3975]

You’re forgetting that for our American friends, everything is all about America all the time.

[@lachlansrailwayproductions]

Great to hear that Amtrak will start services into Melbourne soon

[@BryanLikesCandy]

Honestly, I don't care about the travel time or cost. If there is a train from Melbourne to LA you better believe I'd take it!

[@xymaryai8283]

@@BryanLikesCandy Seconded! I want a bridge to Indonesia and a trans-asian railroad all the way through eastern Siberia, a bridge across to Alaska, then all the way through Canada or the US to my choice of east coast, texas (for the people, not the place) or west coast! but a train ferry will do XD as long as i don't have to get off the train, i'll happily do the 100km Torres Strait on a boat

[@shraka]

Oh you REALLY want VLine to run those services, not Amtrack.

[@xymaryai8283]

@@shraka oh, no, Vlocities don't go nearly fast or long enough, if its going around the pacific, Japan is the obvious option for an experienced and reliable operator, not to mention, double the speed.

[@shraka]

@@xymaryai8283 I mean, if we get to choose.

[@Approvedhalalmemes]

I’m deeply saddened that these trains won’t run through South Kensington. Undoubtedly the most important station in all of Melbourne, thanks to its wide platforms and scenic views. Absolute disgrace 😡.

[@nator1]

IKR ITS APPAULING. THE BEST STATION IN MELB TOO

[@Comeng_]

FR 😠

[@OriginalPiMan]

This is the perfect opportunity to reopen General Motors Station.

[@willdunn8846]

How’s the serenity?

[@musicalaviator]

Like every other train stopping at all stations except South Kensington.

[@BuildingBeautifully]

Great deep dive Martin, this made a lot of sense even to someone who isn't from Melbourne. Really excited for this to open! I'll have to visit Melbourne when it does. Oh, and bring on better off-peak services for Melbourne 💪💪

[@Taitset]

Thankyou! I just watched your Hong Kong video, really good! The network has changed quite a lot since I went there 12 years ago.

[@closeben]

I had no idea there was a single track section on the Upfield line. As a frequent user of this line during off peak hours, I am gobsmacked they haven’t already duplicated it and are trying to tell us that Metro Tunnel will fix the frequency issues.

[@Falkirion]

I don't see why they don't just do it already. There's room down of Gowrie for the second track. Even if it's only duplicating to short of Upfield and terminating everything into the one platform. Probably was part of the original scope but got descoped early on by MTM to save money. Upfield should already be a 2 platform station with a 3rd platform and connection through the old Somerton alignment to Cragieburn. But given they'd lose the stabling I doubt MTM sees it that way

[@newman3313]

I was discussing the storm the other day and how several lines were down, that got me to raising a question about the Upfield line, the two people I was discussing with me did. It even know what/where upfield was. Maybe that’s why it is single tracked

[@markkelly6531]

That missing bit of duplication limits frequency on the line to 20mins, which is a real brake on demand. If you just miss a train at Coburg it it’s quicker to skip over to Sydney Rd and catch a tram.

[@BlackGateofMordor]

@@Falkirion It's been pushed into the relatively cheaper City Loop Reconfiguration in Infrastructure Victoria's docs, alongside the restoration of the Somerton link and extension to Wallan. Hopefully government brings it up next election, it's a much cheaper megaproject than others.

[@PJRayment]

@@Falkirion "Probably was part of the original scope but got descoped early on by MTM to save money." Nope. The government decides these things, not MTM.

[@albertytube5547]

I’m quite excited for the Metro Tunnel since I want to take a ride on it when it opens, and to see how good it actually is.

[@brucetharpe762]

I need to head to Amtrak’s website and start booking tickets for the inaugural Northeast Regional to Melbourne!

[@RayNoorAly]

I tell you as a UniMelb student Parkville station is gonna be a game changer. I fear we are the burden on the trams a lot of the time; we all ride to Flinders and then get on a tram. But I can easily see myself changing to the metro tunnel and training it. Maybe I'm overestimating our presence but I hope I'm right 🙏

[@AshleyReynolds-vc6ly]

Depends how far you have to walk to access the train platform versus the tram stop (and same getting off at the other end), and how long you have to wait for a train versus the very frequent tram service. If you live on the Sunbury or Dandy lines the train will be useful, for everybody else the tram will be the best option.

[@enochliu8316]

For student with classes near Royal Parade, yes. For Student near Swanston Street, tram will be faster.

[@jimmbob4646]

No stops at Richmond or Southern Cross means the Dandenong lines are absolutely stuffed for footy fans!

[@Taitset]

I really hope they'll run some footy specials over the direct route, but it's probably unlikely.

[@Birdman_18]

Just means we'll have to get off at the city hall station for both footy grounds, I'm guessing

[@TheLostProbe]

@@Birdman_18 or interchange with a Frankston train at Caufield. or if you're a Sunbury line user, interchange at Sunshine or Footscray

[@KingAcid15]

@@Birdman_18 or get off at caulfield

[@shaundgb7367]

Just imagine if they had kept Waverley Park for the footy fans in the Dandenong and Gippsland region. Two football grounds in the inner city and one that held over 70,000 in the centre of outer south and eastern suburbs is gone. All to sell the idea of Docklands that barely holds more than 50,000 and would be no fun to have to travel out to Dandenong or Gippsland on Thursday or Friday night matches in the coming years. Pity they never built some new stations near Monash Uni, Waverley Gardens and Waverley Park in past decades,

[@pship855]

Great video Martin. Really looking forward my fist ride through this. re ANZAC Station & St Kilda Rd trams - currently in the evening peak it is impossible to actually board and the trams often don’t even stop due to overcrowding. At Flinders st the tram basically empties. Even if only half of the passengers switched to ANZAC Station there would be a significant improvement to actually service.

[@The_Real_DreamM]

admittedly I was sceptical about changes to the Pakenham line, particularly losing direct access to the loop, but I can see how the changes could make PT much easier and frequent for daily users. Awesome video 👍

[@SYDTrainsFilms]

Clearly a few less easter eggs in this one! Amazing that you can produce such high quality stuff so quickly!

[@Taitset]

There are two easter eggs, both very small. :)

[@oxthcar]

@@Taitset just noticed both I think. ones close to the centre of the video, the other is around 3/4 although I'm not sure if it's an easter egg 🤷

[@jdillon8360]

Been watching Taitset for years, didn't know there were easter eggs in any of his videos. What am I looking for specifically?

[@oxthcar]

@@jdillon8360 in this video, words changed on sites. Normally it's signs or walls scribbled over with "Subscribe to Taitset"

[@HouseholdDog]

I really like the wood roof on the Anzac tram stop. It really is quite beautiful. However what it doesn't do is provide one iota of protection from the sun, rain, hail or wind. I got there one day and it took ages to find any shade. Actually bus/tram shelters might be an interesting topic. I have always hated newer Melbourne shelters.

[@Taitset]

Yes it is something I've been meaning to cover, they seem to get higher and less-protecty with every project!

[@RJM56]

Wait until the construction hoardings are removed.

[@HouseholdDog]

@@RJM56 It will help, but I'm not sure a whole lot in quite a few situations. I mean they simply could have lowered it and provided a lot more cover. There also appears to be no cover if you wait at the outbound end. Just those appalling glass shelters that provide almost no protection from anything too.

[@drworm5007]

Serving the user is only the second priority for any construction project. The first is always serving the architect's portfolio. I kid, but also not.

[@HouseholdDog]

@@drworm5007 I just had thought it might have something to do with hostile architecture. Ie stopping the homeless sleeping there. I don't know TBH.

[@JackStavris]

As someone who currently commutes on the Pakenham line to Southern Cross (since I work about 200m up the road on Bourke Street), the Metro tunnel will cause me to have no direct connection and I'd have to transfer at Caufield or Flinders Street/Town Hall. However excluding my little annoyance about that, the benefits for the rest of the network are great in my opinion and should give the rest of the network, especially Southern Cross, Flinders Street, Richmond and South Yarra more flexibility. Will be nice for people needing to go on the Sandringham line to finally be able to get a train at Southern Cross for example rather than having to get a train one stop to Flinders Street to change or get a tram.

[@rjvarley123]

As a Belgrave/Lilydale line user, thanks for being the first to tell me that this means nothing to me. i suspected this was the case, despite various announcements and websites telling me otherwise.

[@aquacactuscheeseburger]

I think the capacity increase on the northern group is still pretty realistic. The split entrance to the city loop tunnel means that there are now no conflicting moves at all for suburban trains at North Melbourne (currently some craigieburn and all upfield trains split at a flat junction on the north side). This will mean extra craigieburn services will no longer need to use the cross city group to leave the city, removing one of the flat junctions on that line. Upfield trains can also terminate using a crossover at batman station. Little things can make a big difference

[@lukegeorge5717]

that's a nice idea and would make a difference to some of the line but i would have thought the upfield line would be to short to justify that and anyways wouldn't track duplication be a better long term solution?

[@aquacactuscheeseburger]

Definitely would be, but any duplication project now would not open in time for the tunnel

[@lukegeorge5717]

@@aquacactuscheeseburger yeah true but that doesn’t void how useful investment like that would be

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

They should fix the never used platform 1 at Brighton beach to be used as a termination platform

[@Taitset]

Yes, that would be a pretty easy option.

[@aquacactuscheeseburger]

The platform is out of use because they cant fit a fence between the central siding track and the platform track. If people are allowed to access platform 1, there will be nothing stopping people accessing parked trains and graffitiing them. Theres not enough storage on sandringham line to allow a siding to be removed to add a fence

[@Taitset]

@@aquacactuscheeseburger And yet just down the line at Sandringham, there is also no fence between the platform and the sidings.

[@JJRol.]

​@@TaitsetThere is almost no security there, no fence around the yard. Maybe it's seldom used?

[@Taitset]

@@JJRol. As far as I'm aware it's in regular daily use. Glen Waverley is similar.

[@aWitty]

This is great stuff. I'm a Melbourne commuter for 35 years. Love the info. Keep it up.

[@handyandyaus]

Although planned to open in 2025 it's highly likely it'll be in last quarter of 2024. I base this comment on the fact that prospective Metro Tunnel employees were notified they are required to commence from April to (at the latest) September 2024

[@Taitset]

I also suspect this will happen, in fact I'm sure the website said 2024 when I looked a few months ago.

[@steveheywood9428]

@@Taitset yes, I saw that too earlier in the year.

[@JC4.80]

@@handyandyaus now it’s September 2024. How is it going there now?

[@exploringsydneysrailways]

Great video! I appreciate the quality subtitles and the humourous chapter names.

[@user-ashton_samuel]

Great Video! When the footy (or any big event) is on at the MCG hopefully they can bring special trains that stop at Richmond (and South Yarra) platforms 5/6. Considering it is express between Caulfield and South Yarra, Pakenham/Cranbourne trains could share the tracks with the trains that are using Metro Tunnel. Otherwise Caulfield will be overwhelmed with commuters from the Pakenham/Cranbourne lines.

[@JoanneBurford09]

Exactly 😮

[@theorangeoof926]

Pretty unusual that trains will bypass South Yarra entirely, voiding a connection for passengers heading up to Melbourne to interchange there to go towards Sandringham, at the very least they should’ve added an interchange station there. Now you have to use a train that came from Frankston to go up to Melbourne to access Richmond and South Yarra, no doubt a hassle.

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

At that point it's easier to just swap at Flinders/town hall

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

@@74_pelicans surely they could have build an underground station below south Yarra?

[@edmundcarew7235]

@@dylanshadowstar9779 Of course it could have been built, but the public servants did not want to do it. A disgrace that it isn't an interchange!

[@mjcats2011]

@edmundcarew7235 At first glance yes it is a glaring omission. It ha nothing to do with Public services but to do with where the tunnel entrance is. The platforms would have to be curved which is not allowed for new build stations and there was not anywhere else to build the tunnel.

[@222amg]

Yeah, I remember reading (dunno how true it is) that apartments that were built on side street along south Yarra station, actually had their foundations in the way - so trying to connect at south Yarra was quite difficult

[@86_beans]

Thank you so much for the explainer. This was the clearest I’ve seen so far!! Well done! South Yarra is a hugely missed opportunity. Given that was passed on, at the very least the PTV could now stop the trains at the four local stations which they currently express through between South Yarra and Caulfield to allow local passengers at those stations to use this new service. Each has four platforms. It seems a completely inexpensive option to just stop the new metro trains at existing platforms given there is no logical transfer at South Yarra (as there is at Footscray). Also with level crossings everywhere and without any level crossing removals at all, Sandringham Line can’t have too much increase in volume of trains otherwise the traffic won’t move!!

[@JohnMcPherson-kk9xf]

Missing a South Yarra interchange is frankly criminal. Is it political? High rise residential everywhere, entertainment precinct, Sandringham rail line, Toorak Rd and Chapel St trams, buses. And it seems Caulfield interchange will remain lengthy and complicated. Reaching Richmond - for the MCG, tennis centre and other sports will be via a change at Flinders St. Indirect and slow.

[@zoeyk.6338]

I've been inside Arden station during ealrier construction phases, it's quite nice

[@atariplayer3686]

Thank you @Taitset for the detailed information about the Metro Tunnel Project. 😊

[@midnightteapot5633]

I was a member of the station staff at Museum station when it was first opened for train services in 1981, there was a lot of fuss and excitement over the event, looking back at it now it was such a simple and naive time in comparison to today.

[@SnaccDaddyy]

Very excited for the new tunnel, but as someone who commutes to Richmond from Carnegie I am going to miss jumping on a train and only having 2 stops between home and work

[@EBGamez1]

I agree. I am commencing my first year of university this year at RMIT and will be catching one train from Carnegie to Melbourne Central and vice versa. Hopefully I’ll have my driver’s licence by the time the project is completed so I can just drive to Caulfield station.

[@SnaccDaddyy]

Couldn't you just catch the Pakenham line to State Library, its right by RMIT? @@EBGamez1

[@Wdeane1957]

Ideally, all Frankston trains should be Express to Caulfield. Run a shuttle between Richmond and Caulfield for the smaller stations to enable better times for the longer distance Frankston trains.

[@SnaccDaddyy]

@@Wdeane1957 A shuttle would just destroy the scheduling and timing of the line though because you'd have to somehow fit it in between all those express trains

[@Wdeane1957]

@SnaccDaddyy yes, its probably too late now, but if there was a way to run all express trains on one pair of tracks and all the shuttles on another it woukd work. The express trains could run a few minutes apart and not get held up by shuttle trains on the same track. Many years ago this was often done with Frankston and Dandenong express trains sharing the outer tracks and stopping all stations trains on the inner tracks.

[@jackybeck2479]

Can't believe there is only one more year until it is scheduled to open! Time really does fly!

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

Could be sooner if we're lucky

[@jamesfoster9189]

In addition to the Airport rail (yes, if it ever gets built), I would however argue that the already existing Melton Line be electrified and go through the tunnel to make it an even split of services. - It's 25km of electrification on already existing tracks (no overhaul of infrastructure required), - It's one of, if not, THE fastest growing corridor in Victoria with a huge catchment - The communities out there are dying for faster, frequent and reliable services. V/Line at the moment is making that very difficult. - There's room to expand the catchment with new stations at Thornhill Park and Mt Atkinson. The oversight is so surprising, since the opportunity is right there, and I think a large part can be attributed to politics. Labor haven't needed to think about it because they win out west easily every time. But if the opposition made an election promise to deliver it, it would get the ball rolling a lot faster than the time it will take to plan, build and construct the Airport line.

[@Taitset]

Agreed, in fact I'd say the lack of electrification to Melton and Wyndham Vale is the biggest thing we're missing on the network right now.

[@BrendanHinton-q1s]

amazing how many people come to watch this guy in just 2 minutes of release

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

Some people have early access

[@BrendanHinton-q1s]

oh@@dylanshadowstar9779

[@krissp8712]

Patreon aside, this guy is quality.

[@tonnyyyyyyyyy2]

Taitset is back!🎉

[@calbano6584]

10/10! The video was most informative and free from bias which was very refreshing and thoroughly enjoyable to watch. However, I am not so convinced the Metro Tunnel will benefit anyone. (Happy to be corrected!) The project causes an inconvenience to Sunbury/ Cranbourne/ Pakenham Lines if they wish to travel to South Yarra, Parliament, Flagstaff or Southern Cross. Having Town Hall and State Library stations in the immediate area of existing stations seems ill conceived. Anzac station is below a busy tram corridor. In addition to that, the figures on the project website appear to have come from a crystal ball.....I`m unable to provide any recommendations for improvement as I do not know the existing network well enough. I understand people will disagree, which is fine! However, I suggest they think about how much money the government has sunk into the project and if it will have a long-term benefit for commuters, as most lines remain mostly unchanged at a glance...

[@TheLostProbe]

the main reason for putting Town Hall and State Library right next to existing stations is not just for easy interchanges, but also to free up capacity on Swanston Street trams, which is the busiest tram corridor in the world. they can get very busy at times, and if there is instead a train that will take you north-south across the CBD quicker, then why not catch the train? this is also probably the case for Anzac, although Anzac is designed to be a direct tram-train interchange (the first of its kind in the city), so CranPak passengers can get on a tram and reach more areas towards the south like St Kilda I don't think the Metro Tunnel will have much of an effect on anything other than a bit of extra capacity, which is of course good because Melbourne is growing in population at a rapid pace, but this will likely change once the City Loop Reconfiguration comes along

[@JamielDeAbrew]

Maybe trains and trams are meant to act as a team. It would be easy to jump off a train and onto a tram to access southern cross, flag staff or parliament. The key will be in how much frequently trains run.

[@nilj9562]

Mate you’re an absolute legend!. I’ve been looking for days for some material that explains the actual changes. This was so incredibly helpful! Thank you!

[@Taitset]

No worries, glad you found it useful!

[@Rheilffordd]

I couldn’t find any subtle background messages in this one 😜 I hope they keep Platform 12/13 at Flinders St, it makes sense to have that usable capacity on hand in the event of disruptions or special events to warrant their use.

[@Taitset]

I finally managed to make them subtle enough to escape your notice! 😄 There are 2, both very small.

[@mikehindson-evans159]

This was a perfect preparation for our upcoming visit to Melbourne in early April 2024. Thanks for the detailing. I hope that your chosen line colours match up the colours on the official train system map, but even if not, this has been a REALLY useful intro to station line names and the overall layout. Once again, thank you for the coincidental timing of this video. Mike

[@seventyeight4237]

First class video Martin. Thanks so much. That was really insightful.

[@danielgoosen591]

5:19 I think something about this Werribee and Williamstown lines having a 24% increase in peak capacity is that the Werribee and Williamstown lines may be able to implement some half-hourly frequency services starting in Werribee and using the express tracks to Newport and then using the northern loop with the extra capacity being utilised so that the maximum capacity can be used on the Werribee and Williamstown lines. Just an idea.

[@mjcats2011]

Monday to Fridays Werribee Trains run express Laverton to Newport, Newport to Footscray, Footscray to N Melb then Southern Cross and Flinders Street every 20 mins. Laverton Trains run all stations to Frankston.

[@Johntrampoline]

Great video! It’ll be interesting to see if the Dandenong lines will go to Richmond or not when things like the footy are on. Also while it’s not metro tunnel related, I believe once it opens the plan is to run Glen Waverley trains straight to and from flinders street at all times which would lead to a slight capacity increase for the Burnley loop.

[@ryangibbins8196]

Yes, I was wondering exactly the same thing re services coming in from Pak/Cranny when the big games are on at the G. Will they still have the ability to run them the old way via Sth Yarra & Richmond? Otherwise you may get 1000s of punters trying to swap at Caulfield to already full trains from Frankston. It's either swap, or make the annoying swap at Town Hall to a train/tram heading back out. Hope they've thought this through.

[@Wdeane1957]

​​@@ryangibbins8196yes, they will have the ability to run Dandenong trains to Richmond as that's how the V-line trains will run. The metro tunnel lines and Dandenong lines through South Yarra join just after South Yarra on the bend to Hawksburn.

[@christopher6740]

I don't live in Melbourne. I don't live in Australia. Why have I watched nearly every taitset video?

[@mce_AU]

His calm re-assuring voice perhaps?

[@Reptilia12]

Same reason everyone watches Geoff Marshall and Jago Hazzard's videos

[@ivolol]

For your future trip ☺

[@philiprochecouste2236]

Fantastic summary and break down. West Footscray will be my new main station so great to understand what the impact will be there and more broadly!

[@BigBlueMan118]

5:49 extra flexibility is only 1 concern; switches, track, signalling, and OLE all cost money, have to be maintained and are a significant source of faults and disruption. The international experience from countries that have much better rail operations (Japan, Switzerland, Holland) shows removing all switches and signalling practically possible and completely segregating tracks from one another is definitely the way to go.

[@cabbagepatch8947]

Thanks for this analysis. And thanks for such clear and sharp images.

[@MARKINAU8]

Sounds like an incredible plan! I am keeping my motorcycle for daily commute

[@djdeckstar]

South Yarra so super well serviced and doesn’t need another station. Upfield duplication is much better use of funds. Great video

[@kayelle8005]

Thank you for this explanation. As a newer arrival to Melbourne I’m still learning about the train and tram networks. My experience is that I will rarely use a train to get into the city because it’s a ten minute walk and they run less frequently. I’m 50 metres from a tram stop. So the speed of the train is offset by my walking pace and the frequency of the tram. The time for the journey ends up being the same without the worry that if something happens in the train line I’m stuck whereas an issue on the tram line means I can get off and either walk or get a taxi. There are only two occasions where I’ll use the train to ride into the city. I’m on the craigieburn line. On the way home I’ll usually grab a tram but I’m much more likely to consider and use a train for the return journey. On the accessibility front the 57 tram is very inaccessible so that’s a downside and I’ve noticed that the newer trams and trains are also deficient in their accessibility options. The ones that have minimal step ups are better but they are struggling to get the mix right for mobility issues like wheelchairs, walking and balance aids, and hand issues. Not enough seats, people rarely offer them even when you have walking aids, and trying to get the doors open on trains when you have walking aids can be very difficult without risking a fall. I’m always hoping someone is getting off at the same stop or is standing near the door so I can ask for their assistance.

[@therealsammyvee888]

I'm glad to see you've done a detailed video about the Metro Tunnel and how it will change the Melbourne rail network (at least with what we know thus far). Great overview. I'm a bit disappointed that some sections of track won't be used by regular passenger trains anymore though, as I don't think there is anywhere else in Melbourne where this is the case, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm also disappointed there will be no direct connection with South Yarra, as anyone wanting to change to a Sandringham or Burnley group train will have to change trains twice, making their journey time much longer than necessary in my opinion. Some people may say you can just continue to Town Hall or State Library and change there, but again this adds more time than should be required. It just seems like such a wasted opportunity to me. Also, I assume the Frankston line will continue running at a ten minute frequency through the Loop? Otherwise, that could severely reduce service frequency through the Caulfield tunnel. And do you know what the situation will be with V/Line services when the tunnel opens and there are more frequent, "turn up and go" suburban services between Pakenham/Cranbourne and Sunbury? I mean, how will they allow the V/Line trains enough room to run between suburban services if they're running pretty much every few minutes, especially during peak times? Interested to hear your thoughts. EDIT: I'm also interested in how station announcements will work (both in the tunnel and on the existing above ground sections), whether they'll be the same as they are now, or different like on the Sydney Metro.

[@Taitset]

I can't think of any extended sections of track in the suburban area which currently see no trains, best example is probably the ramp down into the Caulfield loop from the Frankston line - which of course will change to the other ramp shortly. I imagine Frankston will operate a similar frequency through the loop as Dandenong does currently. It's certainly going to get harder for V/line to get paths, but also, we don't actually know what the maximum frequency is going to be at this stage - they keep saying 'turn up and go,' but that doesn't actually mean much and it may just mean 10 minutes - which I would argue certainly isn't 'turn up and go.' Not sure about announcements, but my guess is they will continue to use the current format.

[@therealsammyvee888]

@@Taitset Thanks for your response. I appreciate it. I will be interested to see what happens from here on in and what information we receive later down the track (pun intended).

[@TheMetroboy22]

Nice Video Martin! Keep up the good work 💪

[@adam_nathan]

After visiting Melbourne recently I can see some major value for the metro tunnel for those who would otherwise take the tram *through* the city. I was only in the city for a few days and there were quite a few times when it would have been useful for saving time. I could also see the transfer point at ANZAC having the potential to relieve the Federation Square tram stop as a transfer point from train to trams since some people may wish to transfer to trains to trams (and vice versa) at a less busy - and more conveniently designed - point as ANZAC will be.

[@willhooke]

Thank you for explaining all the changes Martin 👍🏻

[@darioi67]

I find it bazaar that the Cranbourne & Pakenham lines will no longer have any access to Flinders street/South Yarra/Richmond. This means that every person on one of these lines wanting to access the MCG, AAMI Park and that whole area will need to change to a Frankston line at Caulfield, which then means that Caulfield will be an absolute nightmare !

[@enochliu8316]

Town Hall is connected to Flinders Street.

[@TheLostProbe]

Town Hall station is essentially just an extension of Flinders Street, it will be connected via an extended Degraves Street Subway

[@darioi67]

That's true but there's still the issue of bypassing Richmond station and in particular the sporting stadiums, it will really make Caulfield station a complete mess.

[@campbell510]

You could add Parliament Station to that list.

[@SimonsHouseofEntertainment]

When the Frankston line returns to the city loop it should keep the anti clockwise direction, e.g from Richmond to Parliament at all times for simplicity and consistency. This will allow a quick trip from Richmond to the city loop stations at all times. We should have two at all times clockwise loops (probably Burnley and Clifton Hill) and two at all times anti clockwise loops (Caulfield and Northern). This will make travel through the city loop much simpler and making connections between all city loop stations easier at all times.

[@simonlumb7523]

Agree, and also allows you to travel from underground city loop stations to Flinders Street and Southern Cross at all time (an absolute pain to do so in the afternoon before they made the change to Dandenong line trains). Especially those wishing to get to V/Line services or road coaches.

[@SuperPursuit66]

Thank you Taitset, very informative and objective

[@greatnorthernrailwaytother4711]

Great information and explanation. Thanks Peter.

[@mce_AU]

Capacity was measured in passenger numbers not rail capacity was it not? Great video, thanks. Also love the MS Paint trains going around the loop ending upside down.

[@billd01rfc]

Overall a positive project - but I still can't believe there is no interconnect at Sth Yarra . . .so close, yet so far . . .

[@EverydayADV]

As a frequent sports attendee, hopefully there are quick and easy connections to Olympic Park/MCG now Richmond is out of the picture for Pakenham lines.

[@chappo91rulz]

They could use platform 13 for the Sandringham line if and when they have rail replacement busses on the Werribee and Williamstown line

[@warfradio4287]

Re: Upfield Line - I believe the plan is to use the crossover at Batman, so the inner stations will get a base services of every 10 minutes (and greater during peak), with the outer stations on the line to still have an every 20 minutes service. Also, the Burnley and Northern Groups will have a fixed city loop direction. Clockwise for Burnley, but unsure of direction for the Northern (most likely clockwise).

[@Sagealeena]

Every 10 minutes would be great. With it currently every 20-30 minutes when I need to catch it to get to work, it’s often faster to get the tram into the city than waiting for the next train!

[@martinschalken7583]

How about connecting the Frankston line with the Cragieburn line, going from Richmond to North Melbourne via a pair of city loop tunnels, as indicated in the (now decade old) PTV network development plan? I still really like the idea and hope we will eventually have a number of distinctly separated lines that go from one side of the city to the other with slightly different routes through the CBD.

[@Taitset]

Yes i think it's a good idea too, though I don't belive there's any plan to make the tunnel changes any time soon.

[@kadafi4lyf]

As someone who works near the site of the new Anzac station, this metro tunnel will make a world of difference! About 99% of people who work there catch a train to flinders st then a tram down st kilda road. The result is that those trams are packed like sardines and i often have to wait for 3 or 4 trams to pass before squeezing into one during peak hour. I sometimes drive to work or ride an escooter down that section instead. Having a full sized train make that journey means I'll pretty much always catch the train. Its a small amount of detail but will make a world of difference!

[@CoffeeOnRails]

I do wonder if Melbourne will see a similar effect as London did with Crossrail (the now awkwardly named “Elizabeth Line”) XR was supposed to provide relief to the Central Line, however that hasn’t really happened. Instead we’ve seen new trips that wouldn’t have been made being made due to the new service and increased capacity and loading on the central line (after adjusting for recent health crisis’) hasn’t really decreased as promised.

[@TreFR14]

Wait a minute I just noticed the "I SUBSRIBED to TAITSET! And now I am cool even though I drive this s**t car" face censor at 9:01. Thats a good one lol.

[@Izib954]

I still feel they should have just kept tunnelling to Caufield, especially since by bypassing S. Yarra that's functionally how the Dandenong lines will operate in regular service. It would have provided a "free" track amplification from the City to Caulfield for more capacity, and made it easier to rebuild Caulfield for a better interchange. If I remember correctly the long term strategic plan for the network called for additional tracks to Caulfield and Dandenong anyway. And since I'm already being a downer abyway, Sunshine would've been a much better mid-terminus in the West too. But overall glad to see the project nearing completion. 🎉

[@Taitset]

..that's a very good point!

[@FlameMirage]

This new line will make me trying to get a job at RCH easier, as I can finally take a train in and not stress about having to drive and pay for expensive parking!

[@themelbournerailfan]

Very Helpful, thanks mate for the explanation.

[@himbourbanist]

this is a LOT like the Chicago El's tunneled segments on the Red and Blue lines. all lines used to go through the loop in Downtown and back out until they built the tunnel underneath the city to through-run the Blue and Red lines. great move, this will be huge for the city

[@DrinkiePinkie]

On the Upfield field, there's a crossover between Coburg and Batman. I'm assuming that when the tunnel opens and capacity is increased, there will be a lot of trains terminating at Coburg. If Upfield's single track section ever did get duplicated, they could do it during the period when most of the line is closed for the level crossing removal. Can't forget Somerton Link as well!

[@Taitset]

It is possible they will terminate trains at Batman, however they haven't specifically mentioned this so it's still misleading for people living north of there. The way the crossover is positioned like 500m back from the platform is also not great for regular frequent movements.

[@DrinkiePinkie]

@@Taitset yeah it's not an amazing solution, which was why i was hoping they'd do the track duplication during the level crossing removals. it'd fix that problem, and if they restored the somerton link, you could also reroute Seymour and Shepparton (which was initially planned for metro tunnel opening). But I'm probably being way too optimistic

[@panamrailfan]

You need to link a PDF for all the map diagrams you have made so anyone can look at them any time

[@CityRod]

Supposedly, Moonee Ponds Creek Junction will be rationalised, with the east subs aligning to 3/4 at Nth Melbourne, and the mains being removed.

[@maesterjono]

Amazing video! Thanks for the breakdown.

[@Stefan-qy4ro]

I wonder how long before (if ever) elecrail get to run a taitset through the tunnel.

[@Taitset]

Almost certainly never unfortunately.. but it would be fun!

[@SYDTrainsFilms]

Would it fit the loading gauge (kinematic envelope)? ​@@Taitset

[@Taitset]

@@SYDTrainsFilms Yes, nothing stopping it physically, but there's a blanket ban on wooden cars running on underground lines in Victoria, which is why you won't see it in the CIty Loop either (they did run in there for a short time after it opened, and on tours, but not in the last 20 years). It would also need to be fitted with CBTC, which is pretty unlikely at this stage!

[@TheMetroboy22]

Yeah also it could catch fire

[@Taitset]

It's not any more likely to catch fire, but it would be a lot worse if it did, and that's the reason for the ban.

[@MsWinterlife]

When I worked for MTM years ago, the main focus was always on level crossing removals because they caused most of the rush hour congestion problems. Other big budget projects like the Metro Tunnel and the Suburban Rail Loop were often talked about but never really taken that seriously, primarily because the state government wasn’t forthcoming about what they would and wouldn’t fund, and without secure funding nothing could happen. Throw in a few closely contested races to the top job between rival political parties, and you end up with lots of optimistic predictions and no real action, for years and years. I left the company in boredom, because at that time there weren’t many projects to get excited about, and servicing a client that was entitled and finicky was really exhausting. Seeing how Labor seems to have established a strong hold in Victoria for a while, perhaps we will see some more major infrastructure projects to future-proof the public transport system for everyone :)

[@ninaotan7811]

Thanks for the information. It appears that those who created the entire metro system totally unaware of how it has been constructed in European cities.

[@Taitset]

It's important to clarify that this system is called Metro, but isn't a Metro. It's a main line suburban railway network, and the 'Metro Tunnel' is functipnally more similar to the RER tunnels in Paris.

[@DavidWilliams7037A]

Very interesting! But it will not affect me on the Epping line. We (and Hurstbridge) seem to be quarantined from the rest of the network.

[@simonpender8331]

Good breakdown, thank you.

[@PaulTaylor2424]

I used to work near Anzac station, and after 5 p.m.every tram was packed, and most times I had to walk to Flinders Street Stn. I would have liked to see a station at Commercial Road to take more load off the trams.

[@thisislilraskal]

SMH @ The bloody Dandenong line. Cheers Dandy 😉

[@dtrezy5223]

So that means if im going to the footy at the MCG I'll have to change trains at Caulfield. Are they going to have trains stop at Hawksburn so we can change there instead of Caulfield.

[@TheLostProbe]

I imagine there will be a mix of express services that only stop at major stations or interchange stations, and stopping-all-stations services

[@Sagealeena]

Hopefully at North Melbourne they introduce cross platform transfers for each way around the city loop! If I can’t make the two minute transfer from Platform 1 to Platform 5 to get to Southern Cross (usually because the Upfield train was delayed), then it adds an extra 20-30 minutes to my trip! If they could use 2/3 and 4/5 for each direction around the loop then it would make it so much more flexible. My trip from Flemington Bridge to St Kilda can take less than 30 minutes, or over an hour… Well, I gotta go make that connection in 15 minutes!

[@ChazSweatshirt]

I understand the difficulties with geography etc as the main reason for not having underground platforms at South Yarra, but I can't help but think that this will be a big miss down the line (pun intended). If you live between Caulfield and South Yarra and need to access the tunnel, you're a bit stuck.

[@oasif2227]

still gives me an aneurism when ever i need to hop from Belgrave to Hurstbridge, I really hate spending like 1 hour just going a bit north of where i am

[@mylarus]

I used to travel on the Belgrave/Lilydale to Melbourne Uni which meant jumping in a tram at Melbourne Central. I can’t see a 10 minute saving here unless you can get a connecting train within a minute or so.

[@xymaryai8283]

yay this is exactly the video i wanted

[@lucytric6294]

as a sandringham trainer platform 13 on flinders street actually suits me really well as the exit at the end is the closest to my work. ah well

[@handyandyaus]

Given the Upfield line will be closed for around 18 months from early 2025 to allow for 8 x LX removals the capacity increase won't happen until at least 2027.

[@tabuoey]

i hope the frankston trains will run clockwise through the loop 🤞

[@RoadtogoldBedwars]

hey taitset could you please do videos on dysons uncomfortable bus seats and why tram drivers speed so much @taitset

[@gregquan5647]

Keen on your thoughts here. Blackburn, Alamein and Glen Waverley should have their own tracks (so pretty much from Box Hill I guess (One should consider moving the Blackburn all stoping to Box Hill with new tracks. Belgrave and Lillydale should operate like they do in Sydney at Strathfield. Always express from Box Hill to Richmond (Redfern in Sydney). This would allow for 9 minute frequency from Union Station, ditto from Alamein and also Glen Waverley. Roughly 6 mins average services from Camberwell and 3 mins from Burnley.

[@FredH0me]

Hi. Are you able to either make a video or talk about the train logistics of large events in Yarra park precinct? A lot of traffic would go to Richmond station, but now the Pakenham Cranbourne line doesn't stop there. Are those customers expected to take the tunnel to Flinders and walk to the MCG? Or change at Caulfield and arrive at Richmond? Both options sound less than ideal during peak commuting to these events. Particularly the change at Caulfield option as the line everyone would change to would be packed already.

[@Taka-ov4li]

Fantastic summary and explanation, super easy to understand. I'm not sure where I read it, or if I did at all, but I feel like I remember hearing that one of the outcomes from the Metro Tunnel would be that the Glen Waverley line is to be detached from the Burnley Group, and run into platforms 12/13, terminating at Flinders St. Perhaps this was one of the things from earlier plans? I suspect that it would require some sort of flying junction from Richmond Station to Flinders St, or else it would cause all sorts of conflicts getting across. Wondering what your thoughts on this are, and if you had heard anything, or if it's something I am misremembering lol

[@Taitset]

I saw something about Glen Waverley being split off graphically on the map, but still running through the loop, so I'm not sure what the plan was there. It would require some very big flyovers to get it over to 12/13 on a regular basis.

[@lui_zacher]

Where do we get the @Taitset bumper sticker at 9:01

[@gavindwyer6504]

So that would mean that sunbury line trains won't go through flinders or southern cross? which will mean changing trains if I need to get to either of those?

[@tcookiem]

They will go through town hall which is basically flinders st

[@paulgerrard9227]

If you use Sydnet metto as an example you can excpect severe cuts to st kilda rd tram frequency.as it teplicates the rail. Perhaps also express trams that stop only at anzac to speed the tram network to final destinations rather than all stops. Sydney buses were slashed in a few stages to push people onto trains.

[@aquacactuscheeseburger]

A dedicated shuttle service on the empty tracks south yarra - flinders st would definitely help with the issue of full trains at south yarra, i hope its at least under consideration

[@aquacactuscheeseburger]

I did not say trains were empty, i said the exact opposite. Metro tunnel will leave a track pair between south yarra and flinders street unused except for vline. These tracks can be used for extra shuttle services to reduce crowding

[@melburnian]

Melbourne is in desperate need of an increase in off-peak services as you mentioned. The frequency at night is laughable.

[@JarrodMast]

Utopia called, they would like to get some more pointers for future episodes 😁

[@mundanenames9752]

Pakenham line here For us it is a negative? More time to get to south yarra and flinders so we have to change at Caulfield to get a frankston line?

[@Taitset]

Won't make much difference to Flinders Street, it's just that you'll be using Town Hall rather than the current platforms.

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

If you want Flinders change at town Hall. South Yarra change at Caulfield

[@chad3021]

Hey so I have a question what about south Yarra old platform 5/6 will it be a Gippsland stop for inter change for the sandringham line or it will just skip or make a new severs for Caulfield for a express or it will remove the 5/6

[@Taitset]

I don't think anything will stop there, it will just be Gippsland trains running through. It's possible if there is a disruption in the tunnel Dandenong trains will come in and terminate there though.

[@burnace]

I’ve been down in the tunnel last year at night, the tunnels are massive, 10x bigger than city loop, the roof space is massive, like nothing I’ve ever seen. There are double tunnels running side by side with small exits inside. Anyone in Melbourne want me to take you down there lmk lol.