Melee Stats Top 100 Official Smash Bros Melee Players of all time | PGStats

[@TheRealMew2king]

I think it's 1-2) any order Armada/Mango depending if you value Armada's stronger 9 years (if you only counted those 9 years then Armada averaged better within that timeframe overall) or Mango winning both before and after him (longevity, which I'm not sure why this applied here but not in my case when I'm years before Mango in both data/strategy contributions and earlier results, and even more ahead from the other gods small gap 3) hbox (results) 4) me (best Fox in 06, best Sheik late 2008-early 2017, best Marth end of 2006-end of 2018, discovered/innovated a lot or the most. Closer to 3rd than to 5th) gap 5) ken (did great, but was getting surpassed starting end of 06 and retired half a year after. Tourneys werent really known about to many in 2002/03, even someone like me who was online more than anybody didnt realize them until 04 and begin in early 05. Despite this, I still think he deserves #5 spot so I'd personally only have him 1 place lower, creating and being ahead of a meta is difficult no matter the time period which is something I think many fail to realize. Marth[and spacies] were also worse in vanilla Melee than UCF by quite a bit because of dashback/pivot reasons [regardless of skill, you are unable to have perfect dashbacks on vanilla, and controllers good at dashbacks are also worse at pivots and everything else sadly, such as stuff Zain does now wasn't consistently possible of a playstyle in vanilla for example). gap 6) leffen 7-8) any order of Chu(very underrated career tbh)/PPMD(great but also shorter than many) 9+) any order of Plup/Axe/Zain/PC/KDJ/Azen

[@KeonPH]

Hey, M2K! :)

[@godspeed809]

I agree with ya m2k, I was surprised you were that low

[@bluejello7565]

Honestly, I could see you being placed above hbox because of your contributions to the game. Early on it seemed like you were the source of a lot of the technical knowledge like frame data and it did wonders for the overall level of play in the early days.

[@jauntytoad]

Agreed

[@scouthatesrainbows]

Finally an opinion I can trust

[@shikamarurules12]

I can’t believe they put Drephen both at #39 and #1. Truly a legend

[@bananacat3109]

hanky panky for #1

[@MitchBison]

Fun fact: ChuDat has beaten everyone on the top 20 of this list except Armada, PP, and Plup. Really speaks to his longevity as a top player.

[@strawhats100]

I'm pretty sure Chu has beaten PP once as well. I think it was at Zenith 2011. He's taken 2 games from Armada as well. I believe he's the only ICs to do so in melee history.

[@KratosSora]

Wobbling is broken

[@MitchBison]

@@KratosSora sure, but he beat Isai, Azen, KDJ, PC Chris, and Ken without it

[@MitchBison]

@@strawhats100 PP wasn't at Zenith 2011. PP 3-0d Chu at Zenith 2012. So yeah, idk about that one.

[@NoctuaOlivae]

@@KratosSora Do you think any other random top player could four stock mang0 with IC's? Picking them doesn't automatically equal a win. It takes some level of skill and practice to find the right openings. I don't think I ever saw any IC's mains at the locals I used to go to and that was before people started to ban wobbling.

[@VSamosuchus]

I feel like a lot of people don't realize that this list list is less "who's the best skillwise" and more "who has had the best melee career". Of course Zain would beat Ken but his dominance, relatively, has just started.

[@WaveOfPig]

Whilst I agree with you, Azen over Zain was pretty baffling to me all things considered.

[@Sapreme]

@@WaveOfPig bruh they threw idbw in there after winning 1 tournament with a washed up hbox and a plup that doesnt give a fuck lmao

[@madmoxxi7397]

Ken shouldn't be top 10

[@NotADegenerate]

Then, shouldn’t Hankypanky be 1st if it was by the best career

[@VAIS2show]

Chu and M2k should’ve been placed higher

[@adamquenano8563]

Mango=GOAT of Melee Mew2king=GOAT of Smash

[@2FadeMusic]

MkLeo = GOAT of Ultimate ... why do all smash goats start with M hmmm..

[@adamquenano8563]

@@2FadeMusic And why do most of the GOATs wear glasses🤣

[@marceloprates5373]

Nah fam wizzrobe or nairo are the true goats of smash

[@adamquenano8563]

@@marceloprates5373 Wizzrobe will for sure be top 10 eventually,but with the state of Smash 64 it’s hard to say what he is right now .Unlike M2K, Wizzrobe hasn’t dominated the games he played in outside of Melee,but his presence is known.Nairo is top 10 but he’s never been #1 in a smash game for very long.Also,due to his retirement he can’t elevate himself any higher.

[@Sapreme]

@@adamquenano8563 You could argue that wizzy is closer to #1 in 64 than he is to #1 in melee. Hes really good at 64.

[@DandyStarsurfer]

That montage when unveiling the number one spot. Few things have given me that kind of chills

[@ethbeast395]

The transition into hboxs ranking was so fucking good lmao

[@FoxCowDog]

M2k may be #5 player of all time but in terms of overall contribution to the community he’s #1 unmatched.

[@AMSantosMusic]

Arguably hbox and team liquid and everything they've done, sponsored and hosted would probably put hbox 1

[@adamquenano8563]

M2K made every character he mained broken in every smash game,pioneered Frame data,made every smash player ever grind in smash,was absurdly dominant at Brawl was #1 at two games at the same time twice,(‘07-‘08 Melee/Brawl, and in 2013 #3 in Melee/#1 in Brawl/#1 in PM) and made waves in all smash games while coaching the best players(Spargo,MKLeo,Zero,Salem,Wizzrobe and Plup),While being a top 10 player for 15 years. That for sure makes him the GOAT of Smash not melee,he should’ve been 4.

[@adamquenano8563]

@@SeriousStriker I forgot to mention them 😔😔

[@Dlord1PlayStation]

If we're talking about contributions to the community I'd put Hax$ up there as well.

[@Latias38]

@@Dlord1PlayStation Biggest difference is that Hax contribution are mainly about melee. You could argue the box can be used for other smash games, but brawl and up is when anyone could start using different controllers, just a matter of preference, so Id argue the box is undermined a bit in other smash games. Other than that and his tourney career, Hax doesnt do much noteworthy. The argument on why M2K is #1 is because he figured things out in Melee and upward. Jumpstarting Frame Data is huge, huge lab time and his ideas involving optimal options, (my favorite is him pioneering doing Marths getup attack to push opponents away so they cant grab the ledge) his smash tourney legacy across melee and upward, and coaching top ultimate players which peak at Top 2 in the world currently? Yea, #1 Smash contributor for sure Dont get me wrong, creating and mass producing the box is Huge, as it allowed not only veteran players to be able to play melee without destroyng their hands, it allowed a huge surplus of new players to learn the game and actually play well. So he def does deserve a honorable mention. Sorry for the long ramble, (honestly I misread your post until after I just finished typing this), but id figure maybe someone else might get something out of this.

[@za_beasto]

I can't agree with Ken being above Mew2King. It's true Ken pioneered a lot in the meta game's infancy, but M2K did so to a much greater extent, and had a much longer lasting and varried career. I think in general he had a much bigger impact on Melee as a whole. I think if we are talking best Smash players across all of the games and taking into account all of the results, Jason is definitely number one for being able to both dominate fast-paced Melee while also basically steering the metagame for the much slower and more casual-friendly Brawl. He was also a significant competetive force in the meta game of Smash 4 with his Cloud, beating top ranked player ZeRo on occasion(s). Not to mention he coached many players including MkLeo who, graduating from the M2K school, won Evo and went on to dominate the second most fast-paced and technical Smash game, Ultimate.

[@陳嘉宇-y4q]

M2K is the master of Smash

[@Thomas-nz4si]

I don't think its necessarily fair to say that m2k had much of an impact on Leo's career. Leo was kicking ass before he started training with m2k and I think he was always going to make it to the top regardless. I agree though, m2k should be above Ken, and below Leffen as well imo. Personally I'd put him right below Plup at 10th but I don't think that's a popular opinion among those who matter.

[@MotivatedStudent2000]

Quiet. Ken is the King of Smash and played more interesting than M2K

[@captainfalconmain6576]

@@MotivatedStudent2000 salty 😂

[@tally.klecko]

I mean... you make a good argument. No rebuttals.

[@mrm64]

Happy 20th Anniversary, Melee. Even though I play Ultimate more, this is my favorite Smash game to view competitively, has my favorite music and the best aesthetics and has the best story lines in all E-sports to me. Thanks for the years of jaw dropping, heart pumping fun. Hoping for many more to come. Every Smash game and fandom hopes to have a legacy as big as Melee and that's factual.

[@NoctuaOlivae]

Borp at number 1 was a brave pick but I respect it

[@paolosworld99]

what are you talking about? Chillindude was at number 1

[@SSB_Seal]

This video sort of fills the space of the Top 100 Combo Video that we've been missing lately! Very cool to see the rankings presented in a video format with accompanying clips. And happy 20th birthday Melee!

[@owenmurphy924]

we need an all-time top 100 combo video

[@shnuggles443]

just watch any n0ne vod

[@SSB_Seal]

@@shnuggles443 I think you may not understand what myself or the reply were referring to. It's a video where each player on the list has one combo and they are presented in order of descending rank.

[@MATTierial]

It's hard to argue. Mang0 has withstood the test of time, and outlasted all of his rivals. He's been the Kid, the Buster, and now officially the GOAT.

[@nattielyte]

🥲

[@kytta]

I can definitely see a case to be made for Mang0. Great results, he has outlasted his rivals, and those count for something. So does Mang0's status as a cultural icon of the Melee scene. But if the question is, which player has had the most dominant career, I think Armada goes ahead. Armada's near decade of pure dominance, with more than likely win and pretty much guaranteed top2 in tournaments - no matter how stacked they were - proves more than well enough that he deserves #1. After 9 years he doesn't need to keep playing to prove he is the GOAT. Either way, I'm not saying putting Mang0 at #1 is wrong. You could definitely go either way.

[@hardnewstakenharder]

It's pretty easy to argue that Armada should be first, actually.

[@RetroEternal]

@@kytta current Mango & Zain would destroy prime Armada. The game and meta has evolved so much.

[@kytta]

@@RetroEternal Perhaps. But imagined results do not count in this exercise.

[@henryreturns1397]

Mang0 is the main character of Melee : - He is the only player that has played against ALL TOP PLAYERS FROM ALL TIMES AT THEIR PEAK ! - He is the only player that has kept up thru times ! - Mang0 could have retired on 2014 after winning the Big House 4 , or retired at 2015 , or retired at 2016 after winning the big house 6 , but he decided to kept playing ! - His longevity is something that no other top player has ! - Mang0 has his up and downs , but when he comeback to the very top , is something magical and unique to see - A player that has been at the Top since 2007 until 2021 , thats a whooping 15 years been at the TOP ! - Currently Mang0 is the only person around that can challenge Zain , nobody else but him can do it

[@nshimada1425]

Axe can do it lol

[@xxximyxxximerton1671]

@@nshimada1425 axe has won like once

[@nshimada1425]

@@xxximyxxximerton1671 Ik I just like axe ngl

[@AlexRoseGames]

@@xxximyxxximerton1671 he means axe is 11-2 on zain

[@tysonfontanez]

@@AlexRoseGames Axe has actually never lost to Zain in a set that he's been taking seriously, he lost once to Zain's marth playing young link and again to Don'tTestMe (aka Zain playing Roy) also with young link

[@pabloandino5372]

The only thing that i really disagree with is m2k before Ken. He was as good as if not better than Ken in 2006-2008 and continued to be a top 5 for 10 more years.

[@captainfalconmain6576]

Pc Chris over wizzy is crazy to me ?

[@griffinashley2890]

m2k's reign at the top lasted like, a few months was nowhere near as dominant as ken literally running the show for 4 straight years

[@ThePi314Man]

​@@griffinashley2890m2k was #1 in two smash games simultaneously, was top 5 in smash 4, shaped the meta for each game he competed in, compiled frame data before it was commonly available, and so much more. His contributions and dominance and coaching for the past two decades warrants at least #4 on this list. If we ranked smash players overall across all games and PM, he'd be #1 no contest.

[@griffinashley2890]

@@ThePi314Man yeah but we don't rank people across multiple smash games so who gives a shit

[@Probasaur]

Beautifully crafted piece of media. You are all really outdoing yourselves as individuals and it has been truly and utterly incredible to see what this team, this family of smashers, how far you all can take it. Thankyou to everyone whos been a part of this wonderful, positive force of a community. To anyone whos helped carry a CRT. Thankyou for allowing me to watch all these years, thankyou to HotBid the true Team Liquid Ken for opening up the world of smash to myself when you made that post on the TeamLiquid forum saying "Even if you don't care about smash this is a damn good documentary" you werent kidding.

[@sterlingsloan6626]

How to bring Armada out of retirement 101

[@SkuIIKn1ght]

If only

[@obsidiancrow450]

Bro what the fuck this production value is insane. deserves way more views

[@caleblandgraf2238]

Armada feels like Michael Jordan and Mang0 feels like LeBron James. Mang0 has the best longevity of all time and has always been one of the best and scariest players to play against. However, playing prime armada, like MJ, was the hardest thing you could do. I watched that guy dominate on a level the game hadn't seen since Ken, and he did it with Peach. Personally, I think it's a toss-up between those 2. Longevity = Mang0, Dominance = Armada

[@chavastral9245]

Would that make Hbox Shaq?

[@Zion122]

I think HBox better suits LeBron James based on the amount of hate they've received in the past and their early failures preceding their later success.

[@JessieJ7948]

Armada and Mang0, damn... It's hard man, I'm really a Mang0 fan but I feel bad for Armada because his stats and tournament results are just so incredible; but at the same time mang0 has been amazing with different characters and he has beaten every player during their prime. Ken, M2K, PP, HBOX, Armada and Zain. It's a tough call...

[@Bachilles38]

This video is fucking good, all the video details + descriptions are great

[@Themonkeymartin]

Will it be Hbox??? Will it be Mang0??? Or will it be Shadow person????

[@Gashshiningstar]

Armada had a more consistent career than Mango. I love Mango but he never had the level of consistency as Armada. At Armada's highest point, the lowest he would ever get was 2nd. Mango may have played longer, however he was more inconsistent than Armada.

[@natick2958]

People who leave any sporting competition too early can never be considered the greatest ever imo. It breaks the whole point of it. If Armada was truly the GOAT then he would not have gotten his ass kicked by hbox so hard he would quit the game entirely. I think what annoys me the most is his attidute towards the game and how he keeps commenting on certain topics and matters as if he is still the best, and is usually wrong. The truth is the game has evolved a ton and he just doesnt seem to want to actknowledge it because it makes his legacy less impressive. (for instance the fact that hbox finally lost to a peach player after 13 years or so, or just that the best player in the world right now is a solo marth main)

[@Gashshiningstar]

@@natick2958 what does this have to do with his performance when he was active? I wouldn't consider 3 years of dominance "leaving early". Also, this game is old. I'm sure if you were playing the same for more than a decade; you would experience burnout as well.

[@natick2958]

@@Gashshiningstar its not the fact that he quit, he can do whatever the fuck he wants with his life (although mario 64 speedruns seem just as dull as playing melee continuously). My issue is the fact that he still acts like he is the best player ever and spews all of these shit takes on stream. If you quit a sport early then don't fucking pretend like the sport ended when you quit and give credit to the people who continue to play it and continue to stay at the top year after year. He seems to have this never ending grudge against hbox for no apparent reason and keeps downplaying all of his achievements

[@Ale_LSH]

@@natick2958 ''would not have gotten his ass kicked by hbox so hard he would quit'' Armada was 5-1 on Hbox on their last year what are you on about lmao. He even 3-0'd him in their last set.

[@RetroEternal]

Current Mango & Zain would destroy prime Armada. The game and meta has evolved so much.

[@ryans1892]

Should be Armada #1 imo. Never placing below 5th at a major is insane. Hell he rarely even placed below 2nd let alone 5th.

[@comatthew6]

Congrats to FalcoMaster3000 for his #1 ranking!

[@carsonmeilinger6773]

Imo 1.) Mango 2.) Armada 3.) Hbox 4.) M2k 5.) Ken 6.) Leffen 7.) Ppmd 8.) Plup 9.) Zain 10.) Azen

[@brendang747]

We have the same predictions LMAO

[@jadchi]

Same

[@MrMrkevin77]

I'd put Zain above Plup but other than that spot on.

[@champofhorde9479]

Armada #1 imo, and Chu should be #7 or #8

[@RetroEternal]

@@champofhorde9479 Current Mango & Zain would destroy prime Armada. The game and meta has evolved so much. Mango has progressed and evolved the Spacie meta ever since he dropped puff and is more skilled currently than Armada ever was

[@MitchBison]

Wizzy the GOAT Captain Falcon and he's got nowhere to go but up. He's already got another major in Mainstage under his belt since this list was done.

[@thedaychr]

Taking titles left and right (But mostly Hbox stocks lol)

[@hydro5168]

hbox starting with the loudest scream in history is how it's supposed to be

[@invalidssb]

Can’t believe mang0 the goat himself is number 1

[@JonathanDirmann]

Yooo, I’m a Mango fan… And I get the social pressure to put him on top because he’s still active, but Armada is just Armada. His numbers are undeniable. I’m not opposed to Mango taking over the number 1 spot at some point. I just don’t think we’re there yet. Armada is still the GOAT in my opinion.

[@teampear5446]

He didn’t play for long and mango was winning super majors before armada mango also beat armada in his prime and then continued to play way after he retired. Armada also retired after he started performing poorly to save face with his legacy

[@RetroEternal]

Current Mango would DESTROY prime Aramda. The meta has evolved a lot since 2018, stop living in the past.

[@AlexRoseGames]

@@RetroEternal it's irrelevant that someone would beat someone who has retired. bobby big balls would beat ken, that doesn't mean he is top 5 of all time. it wasn't like armada played for just 2 years and disappeared, he played for a literal decade and had a winning record on every single player in the top 100 except silentspectre (from one 2010 bo3 on 0.9 damage ratio) and captainjack (from one 2009 tournament). armada wins 5 summits with mango present, mango wins 1 after armada retires and suddenly mango is the goat mango had his chance over and over to prove he was better than armada and he never could, now he waits for him to retire on his near flawless record then claims goat

[@Zets278]

@@AlexRoseGames he didnt claim goat until Armada said some bullshit about the current players and the meta. "The meta hasnt changed" Okay then compete and prove it then. If you're so confident shit hasnt changed much then compete and prove that it hasnt changed. If you're really the goat then you dont have to keep defending why youre the goat.

[@4purs]

@@AlexRoseGames if melee stopped in 2018 then armada is goat. But him quitting is a fault on him and as time goes on and mang0 remains top 1/2 he will be undeniable goat. You make it sound like mang0 was the one running away by waiting for armada to retire when rly it’s the other way around. Armada ran away because he didn’t have the fire anymore and didn’t want to tarnish his record. While mang0 had said multiple times he had no fire which was backed up by the fact that he barely played smash during 2015-18 but still went to tourneys, hurting his record

[@SudlaSteel]

Ken>M2K is mad disrepectful Mang0>Armada is understandable even though I disagree Edit: It feels weird to value peaks like with putting Ken>M2K, but longevity with Mang0>Armada

[@XC11301991]

Ikr, Ken dominated but in an infantile era. He couldn't transition when players got much better and can't even take top 50 players in the past few years.

[@henryreturns1397]

It's funny cuz Ken actually cameback on around 2013 cuz of the EVO donations , and played until 2015. During that time , the way how he played on 2013-2015 was way better than when he played on his prime (2001-2007). The thing of Ken legacy and tournament and what he push the game is that people were just getting better really fast and staying at the top is insanely hard, and just when that happend , Ken decided to quit. He did give it a go as I mention above , and even though he did not have the mentality to be #1 again , it kind of show that there are people more hungry than him and that would surpass his legacy.

[@gormass6183]

The rankings mightn't mean that they're far apart, they can be very close with one person having a slight edge

[@Sapreme]

@@XC11301991 You can't discredit how well somebody does by saying its an infantile era, because that applies to everything ever. Growth is exponential. You can only measure somebody's skill level by how far they were ahead of their peers, because their peers are also trying their hardest to be the best. It not like Ken was the only person in the world trying to be the best, and that's the only reason why he kept winning. It's not like he won for a couple of weeks after launch because of a few gimmicks that nobody figured out yet, Ken won for a long time just by being better than his peers. Even today, if you take the top #1 player from 2 years ago and throw them in today's meta, they would suck. Hbox is the literal example of this, he hasn't played much in the last 2 years, and people already overtook him. He would be around a top 6 or worst player right now if he played a character that demanded tech skill.

[@tysonfontanez]

@@Sapreme but if this list were measured by how far ahead people were from their peers, Armada would be #1 (there's statistic data to prove this somewhere on r/SSBM). The list is inconsistent in when it values peaks/dominance and when it values longevity. With Mango at #1, it makes no sense to put Ken above M2K because M2K beats him by a lot in longevity (they even showcased this in the video).

[@adamquenano8563]

M2k surpassed Ken a long time ago.He was the best Marth longer than Ken was

[@mrst3ak]

Okay, but M2K was never the best PLAYER longer than Ken was.

[@adamquenano8563]

@@mrst3ak Mew2king Competed in more difficult eras than Ken ever has and won regionals with players in a higher skill tree than the majors Ken won overall. Also his EVO victory was a sham since it was literally random stages,Game 1 sets.

[@pac_rby]

@@adamquenano8563 no, if u look at the VODS from EVO World 2007 they are most certainly not Game 1 sets or random

[@adamquenano8563]

@@pac_rby Ok I may have not correctly stated the rules but,The EVO he won had quite a rule set.

[@Alex-kf4zf]

@@adamquenano8563 M2K competed during Ken's era... Ken WAS the high skill in the majors he won. Ken built the house that is melee. Respect your elders lol

[@chw14556]

I always picture Axe playing a top tier character.. he would be so incredibly dangerous. Easily my favorite player right there with Wizzrobe. Also after Wizzys recent win, he’s moving on up even more.

[@sumpyori]

He's insane, its amazing how he just vibes with his character, its just natural to some people. I love wizzy too

[@thescribe509]

No scorp in top 100? what a letdown.

[@Bb0yTaiOne]

Surprised Dashizwiz didn’t make it

[@cutlass1215]

I’m very surprised myself considering at one point in time he was arguably considered top 3 NA before brawl released and easily the best Falco main at the time

[@BirdAsBond]

he’s definitely top 30 all time. Video producers purposely left him out 😤

[@anacobra558]

I'd say the goat is armada and the marth goat is m2k at 4

[@brendang747]

My predictions 1 mango 2 armada 3 hbox 4 m2k 5 ken 6 leffen 7 ppmd 8 plup 9 zain 10 azen

[@mattnic001]

wow, you were really damn close, good one

[@Gamesforus1]

I honestly prefer this tbh, doesn't matter too much tho, everyone who was in top 10 I feel deserve it

[@tysonfontanez]

far more based than the actual list

[@WaveOfPig]

Azen over Zain was mind boggling to me. This list is better.

[@rockenamigo5345]

Armada should’ve been first. #1 in 2011-2012, first half of 2013, 2015-2016, first half of 2017 and wouldve been #1 in 2018 miom rankings if he didn’t retire before the year fully finished. Also was #2 ranked in 2009, 2013, 2017-2018. Never lost to someone outside of top 6 for 8 years. He was also mangos and hbox’s kyrptonite before he retired. Had a winning record vs everyone. Basically was top 2 for 10 years straight as well 2009-2018 Lmaoo literally goat 🐐 shit.

[@drew9851]

They legit listed off all the reasons why armada is the goat and then followed that up with, “but mango has played for a really long time guys”

[@IuckFsrael]

@@drew9851 Then Chu Dat should be over Armada based on that logic then?

[@curranseth760]

“THATS WHAT IM TALKING BOUT! THATS WHY HES THE MVP, THATS WHY HES THE GOAT!! THE GOAT!!!!”

[@justforshow1993]

Melee. Forever.

[@firebert95]

Even after only 2 years, this list is already vastly different! I got we don't have to wait 18 more years for the next iteration.

[@elizabethcardenas6738]

i can not believe hugs didnt get 1 place.

[@nostalgiacorner1999]

I watched Armada own Mang0 from 2015-2018. And have much more consistency over the years. And Mang0 is number 1???

[@captainfalconmain6576]

Especially his results this year Lmao

[@RetroEternal]

Current Mango & Zain would DESTROY prime Armada. The game and meta has evolved so much. Mango has longevity but he also has more skill and if you paired current mango up against prime Armada, Mango (and Zain especially since Zain is the current #1 and Marth is a bad matchup for Peach) would wash him.

[@zeatheist2222]

@@RetroEternal How do you know Armada, who constantly kept evolving during his career, wouldn't have kept evolving lol. He beat Mango consistently throughout his entire career, including right before retirement.

[@RetroEternal]

@@zeatheist2222 that’s a flawed argument. You’re using the classic fallacy of “if something happened in the past, then that automatically means it would continue to happen in the present”. That fact is Armada retired almost 5 years ago and since then everyone has become CRACKED bc slippi allows them to grind without an SRT. Claiming Armada would have kept up with the meta is disrespectful to those who DID keep playing, all the hard work it took to continue playing when the skill and tech required keeps advancing. Armada quit right when everyone was starting to catch up, so he could protect his legacy and trick fools like you into believing he’ll always be the GOAT. The truth it, as the game and meta continues to evolve, Aramda will essentially become Ken 2.0 - dominant his era, but quit and the game evolved far beyond the skill required to compete and win in his era. Stop living in the past man.

[@zeatheist2222]

@@RetroEternal "Armada quit right when everyone was starting to catch up" Who was catching up? He had higher than his average win rate against Mango, Hbox, M2K in 2018, when he retired. But keep clutching at straws man. And talking about 'logical fallacies' that dont apply. I mean your assertion "even though armada dominated the entire period he played, he would have lost if he kept playing cause the meta changed (even though it changed in the past)' is ridiculous. Lastly, melee doesn't exactly pay great, especially when you live in Europe and have to travel to the US for every tourny. If you are 30 something why the flying fuck would you spend your time playing Melee. Its smart Armada quit then. Applying this to any sport just shows how moronic your point is. "Wayne Gretsky isnt the greatest in hockey because the game completely changed". "Don Bradman isnt the greatest in cricket because the game completely changed". So on, so on. No one has a winning record against armada. Zain didnt win a single set. Cry more.

[@cutlass1215]

Was DaShizWiz not eligible for this top 100 or something? Seeing Lambchops on here but not him is weird to me unless I’m missing something here

[@ballertheking1038]

Shiz is a bigot

[@nafy522]

Yes it's weird

[@nya69]

god fly n wobbles prove how cool ics can be without wobbling

[@phil_matic]

When they said that "The King" was ranked at 80, I was like: "HOLD ON, I KNOW THEY DIDN'T JUST DISRESPECT KEN"

[@phil_matic]

Mango being the best player of all time is such a story written by Americans. The very unlikely hero with a rough edge, but had a different side to him when it came to Melee. He was so skilled, so wild in his gameplay, yet implemented so much style in nearly every one of his matches. My favorite player of all time.

[@hardnewstakenharder]

Mango is Costa Rican.

[@phil_matic]

@@hardnewstakenharder 1. No one is talking about race or ethnicity. 2. He was born in the United States. His ethnic background is not the topic of discussion, he's American born, no matter how you twist it.

[@zeatheist2222]

Yeah although Armada is better

[@phil_matic]

@@zeatheist2222 At some point, he was. But overall, no, Mango was better for longer. Mango is still up there today.

[@socooldude45]

This video deserves way more attention

[@snowio2592]

the boy is about to have a new stream overlay.. the GOAT

[@nafy522]

My rankings (as of April 1 2023) : 1: Mango (incredible longevity; top 10 player since 2007; beat Ken in 2007, M2K in 2008, Armada in 2016, Hungrybox in 2019, Zain in 2021 and 2022; the only player who won 2 EVO in a row) 2: HBox (the player who won the most majors and made the most money out of melee; insanely dominant from around 2017 to early 2020; was dominant in a very competitve era (with players like Armada, Plup, Mango, Leffen, Zain, Wizzrobe, Axe)) 3: Armada (extremely good consistancy and dominancy, was in a weaker region than the other gods, the only player who won 3 GENESIS in a row and 4 smash summits in a row) 4: M2K (greatly improved the metagame, remained a top 5 player for 11 consecutive years and a top 10 player for 14 consecutive years) 5: Ken (the most dominant melee player even to this day (and maybe the most dominant melee player ever), was called the "King of Smash" for a reason, won EVO in 2007 even tho he was on his way out) 6: Leffen (first player to beat all the five gods in majors or supermajors, won EVO in 2018, won 2 sets over Zain at Battle of BC 4 in 2022) 7: Zain (first non-god player since Ken to be officialy ranked best player in the world, had a fast rise to the top from 2014 to 2020, the only player to won more than one GENESIS) 8: PPMD (a top 3 player in 2011, 2012 and 2014) 9: Plup (second player to beat all the five gods in majors or supermajors, has a pretty good longevity, first non-god to won a GENESIS) 10: Azen (the second best player in the MLG era, last non-god player to win an american major before Leffen in 2015)

[@captainfalconmain6576]

Zain over ppmd I give him 1 more year? Or 2

[@xfxrxmxt1981]

Damn i didn’t realize this is a one hour video. I’ll have to watch this little by little

[@bradens.3125]

greatest esport of all time

[@RealMeefa]

Who’s the best overall smash player of all time across all games? I got money on M2K or Wizzy easy

[@xertifiedthicc]

m2k 1 wizzy 2 larry lurr 3 watch the smash masters event at smash con, entertaining stuff fr

[@Riley-u8m]

@@xertifiedthicc I'd say zero is probably #2 or 3

[@aspiknf]

Armada, in my opinion.

[@aspiknf]

@@Riley-u8m Oh yeah, I forgot about Zero...I'll go with Zero.

[@boyo024]

Almost made me cry 😭

[@TheKnrumsey]

What's special about the Apex 2010 set of Vanz vs. Hbox? He said "i don't want to give anything away" but I watched two of the games and didn't see anything notable.

[@Hyperion856]

Hbox should now days be #2. The longevity and winning tournaments to this day beats out Armada.

[@salvador6182]

Seeing all the older generation players and their matches was so cool since I'm unfamiliar with that era of smash.

[@RDowney3]

Would recommend watching the Smash documentary if you haven't already then. Definitely worth it.

[@dek3136]

@@RDowney3 where can i watch this ?

[@captainfalconmain6576]

@@dek3136 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZrSlZ-qgb6qoJo here

[@carloszagal1934]

hate to be that guy, but you GOTTA remake that list with aMsa winning 3 MAJORS in one year, and as YOSHI!

[@captainfalconmain6576]

the fact isn’t jmook even here is crazy how much he’s improved an the game

[@Sapreme]

I love that you can sort which era each commentator is from and whether they're casual or not solely by who they think is #1 lol

[@Flip-a-dip-dip]

Glad to see Ken so high on the list. I feel like a lot of people discredit his accomplishments because of the undeveloped meta or whatever. He certainly wasn’t a tech skill god nor did he innovate his character or anything. But he was definitely doing stuff back then that no one else was doing. I think Ken innovated the meta that we use today. (dash dancing, jukes, punish game, edge guarding etc.) like the video said there’s a reason he was called the king of smash

[@captainfalconmain6576]

He should have been 5th but ok 👍

[@Techstrobe]

the aliens invading earth part on the article i remember mango talking about on stream, very nice add lol.

[@ArDrummist]

This is a sick wrap up vid! I feel like they should have put lovages big house win in his blurb tho

[@TheElectricUnderground]

Pg stats right on the money here, mango is #1. Should also be said that he s the player who never complains about the game

[@Sapreme]

Funny enough, the only thing he complains about is Pikachu lmao

[@phil_matic]

There's a particular match that SFat was in... he was against another player that I suppose he wasn't expecting to be as tough of a challlenge, that after SFat won, he looked into the camera and mouthed the words "what the fuck". I don't remember the name of the opponent, but I remember the match being pretty damn good. Anyone know what match I'm talking about?

[@IstayHighAF]

& ithe problem with putting mango #1 is that you really have to put Hbox #3 now. Mang0 has NEVER been anywhere near as dominant as Hbox or armada, never. Such a dosrespect to Hboxs absolute dominance for years.

[@zumptt]

i agree with you on Armada being #1 and i like Hbox, but Mango is better then Hbox

[@voodooedits785]

@@zumptt mango and armada are top 2

[@zumptt]

@@voodooedits785 that's what I said. Armada is #1, I like Hbox but Mangos is better so 2 mango 3 hbox. This guy is the one who thinks Hbox is 2 I think

[@Zyx3ds18]

No credit for the music used in the credits scroll :(

[@AnJgamingblandon]

I think the list should’ve been created towards the end of melee. There’s still so much melee to be played.

[@ricardoludwig4787]

I'm so glad Scar kept his 69th spot, it just feels right

[@matiassamar8267]

The only placing I don't agree with is Ken being ahead of M2K, I'm not sure how they went about on this placing, but they absolutely got it wrong.

[@captainfalconmain6576]

I don’t agree with chudat not being top 10 either lol

[@Master_Spliff]

Honestly this might be a hot take, but seeing Hugs at top 24 seems a bit ridiculous. Idk though, I don't really care about him as a person so that just might be my own bias.

[@captainfalconmain6576]

He literally got second at evo hugs upset over ken an winners final

[@ashtar8630]

Not trolling here but what exactly makes Zain top 10? He’s won like what 3 majors. So he does great in the online era and suddenly he’s top 10? Don’t get me wrong phenomenal player but what results does he have to warrant top 10 of all time? Just curious.

[@evanshanley8110]

The fact that he's gotten great results in a more recent - and therefore harder - era, pushes him above players who may have similar results but in a less recent era like PC Chris or Isai.

[@kazaam8230]

Armada Mango Hbox Mew2king Ken Leffen Zain PPMD Plup Azen

[@LLsunflower]

Sorry but frankly it's a complete travesty to not rank m2k #4

[@LLsunflower]

Leffen has more of a case for 5th than ken has for 4th, hungrybox has more of a case for 2nd than ken has for 4th

[@captainfalconmain6576]

@@LLsunflower I agree

[@Rassmaster]

I think n0ne should be in the top 30 but his rank is something that i can accept. However the player i have doubts on his rankings is hax. Im not understanding why he is below both sfat and johnny when he has both higher peaks as well as similar longevity (while going through character switches and hand issues/boxx) I think he has better results than both and should be ranked higher imo.

[@Sapreme]

hes kinda.... unhinged. But results wise, hes def better than sfat

[@Rassmaster]

@@Sapreme i mean he's trying to get better. Im not gonna hold that against him. Also what does that have to do with his ratings? That has nothing to do with his melee performance and he shouldn't be punished rankings wise because of it.

[@Sapreme]

@@Rassmaster I never disagreed with you man. That's just the only reason I could think of that could have influenced this

[@Rassmaster]

@@Sapreme Oh My B, misread your response. But I agree as well. And its unfortunate because that to me affects their credibility because at that point, they arent being objective

[@RawrJaayZ]

I think sfat> hax is reasonable if you consider time played too (unfortunate for hax's time off from the injury) Hax had peak 6th on a pgr ranking in 2013 compared to sfat 7th in 2016. Sfat has had a consistent career in the top 15 since 2015. Idk how they gather stats but it seems reasonable to me.

[@kingchuckfinley]

It had to be that man going number 1. He’s the real one.

[@welcometowallys8158]

IMO ken is too high. I value later results and length more. M2K was still competing at a high level for longer than ken, and Zain I value his play more for his domination during a way harder time to play melee Edit: I don’t think Zain should be higher than ken, I just use him as an example of valuing being good right now and being good back then.

[@azurezeed]

Putting Zain higher would be recency bias, he still has a way to go to cement himself as one of the bests of the game

[@welcometowallys8158]

@@azurezeed Zain is more a maybe over ken, m2k however no question should be higher.

[@hope27272]

@@welcometowallys8158 I agree that M2K got robbed but putting Zain over Ken is silly imo.

[@stayontrack]

zain barely dominated tho, not counting online

[@welcometowallys8158]

@@stayontrack I think not counting online is a little silly, like what makes online invalid?

[@night1hal1]

If anyone wants to know the song for the #001 reveal, it's "Endless Way" by Aerian Long live the kid, the buster, the GOAT. 🥭

[@UserName-dt3kc]

I disagree on ken’s placement primarily because he played at a point in time where the game wasn’t nearly as technical as it became later on.

[@nosir3807]

He progressed the game to make come as far as it did

[@lambchu6459]

The game is much more than its technicalities. Imagine trying to learn the game without cell phones, let alone yt tutorial vids. You gotta be on another level to be rank 1 in that era. No help from anyone besides people near you.

[@Riley-u8m]

@@nosir3807 Not really

[@UserName-dt3kc]

@@nosir3807M2K pushed it way further, and was a top player for way longer

[@joelkoo2550]

I can see your perspective. But to be undisputed the BEST THE WORLD for a 3-4 year time frame at the game inception isn't something to ignore either.

[@RoninofCrimsonMaple]

Where's Scorpion Master?

[@PlayMadness]

Melee is sick.

[@FinalRadiance]

What character select portraits did you guys use for this?

[@donweas0]

Where are BombSoldier and DaShizWiz ? I could understand not including the latter if some people in the list didn't do worse stuff than him. Also ChuDat should be above Azen and M2K above Ken.

[@kingfeelix2080]

They said they didn't include them because they couldn't really find a place for them since they don't have much data to work off of outside regionals.

[@Sapreme]

The article said bombsoldier was omitted because not enough data. Idk why Shiz was never in it

[@vddxr7240]

they are slowly erasing shiz out of melee history because of his religious views, he is quite literally banned from competing and has no reason listed as to why

[@AlexRoseGames]

@@vddxr7240 it's because he tweeted about vaccines not working

[@vddxr7240]

@@AlexRoseGames he was banned before covid so no and even if that was the case who fucking cares? u are banning people from playing a video game and erasing them from a history they played a big part in for an incorrect opinion?

[@jackandrew895]

You went through all that pomp and circumstance to have mangos name written as Thomas tischio huh

[@AZNfootballer]

Thats the photo credit LMAO

[@OrlotPiuri]

Armada 2nd?????

[@ballertheking1038]

I wonder where ibdw would be now that he won summit 12 convincingly? Top 20? Maybe even top 15? Very interesting to think about.

[@voodooedits785]

Top 25-20 range

[@ballertheking1038]

@@voodooedits785 2 major wins (one of them being a supermajor) is massive.

[@voodooedits785]

@@ballertheking1038 ibdw never won a super major? And he wasn’t too 50 until 2018

[@ballertheking1038]

@@voodooedits785 summit events are supermajors and I can’t see otherwise.

[@voodooedits785]

@@ballertheking1038 they were never considered super majors because of 16 players being there

[@afroduckaka4pf593]

How Chudat is rated above axe is something I can’t understand

[@captainfalconmain6576]

Chudat literally is top 10 all time an my opinion was 2nd old era at one point but he’s has done it for 17 years he came back and did really well was 11 at 2017

[@captainfalconmain6576]

I think chudat should be above Azen and zain

[@captainfalconmain6576]

Even plup too

[@afroduckaka4pf593]

@@captainfalconmain6576 chudat is amazing, don’t get me wrong. But Axe has been in the scene for just as long if I remember correctly and he’s won a summit with a character that nobody else plays. IC’s are pretty easy and simplistic to play while Axe has literally invented the meta for pikachu all on his own. That’s why I think axe deserves to be a little higher, but that’s just my opinion

[@captainfalconmain6576]

@@afroduckaka4pf593 chudat started an 2003 and axe started 2008 so that 5 years chudat started before axe

[@agamer3814]

Where was hanky panky?

[@vddxr7240]

lets erase shiz out of smash history because he holds views i dont agree with. not cringe or childish in the slightest. very cool guys you are all very intellectual adults

[@GoobyGlare]

You know how fast I went to look up the rollout montage

[@YTTHEGAMINGGUY]

That theme for mango what was that anyone know

[@GCLU]

The Cactuar section is perfect.

[@krazyzyko]

Armada's head 2 head set counts from liquipedia: Armada vs Mango: 29-21 Armada vs Hbox: 33-19 Armada vs Ken: 2-0 Armada vs M2K: 26-7 Armada vs Leffen: 40-25 Armada vs PPMD: 13-8 Armada vs Zain: 3-0 Armada vs Plup: 9-2 Armada vs aMSa: 4-0 Armada vs Axe: 12-0 Armada vs Wizzrobe: 7-0 Armada vs Chu Dat: 6-0

[@randumo24]

Ken & Azen WAY overrated. Not only did they do it in eras with lesser competition and a lower amount of competitors, but M2K literally showed he was better than Ken before his first retirement. Not to mention, Ken was trash when he came back years later and competed semi-regularly. His results were bad enough that it probably saved his legacy in the eyes of a list like this that didn't look deep enough, because his results were so far down that they weren't listed. To have Ken above M2K is having no idea what you're talking about.

[@randumo24]

@@blazinbutter6677 I don't think you understand just how bad Ken was in the years he was back. He wasn't even someone you could expect to finish in the top 64 of majors. Not to mention, he piled up his accomplishments in the least competitive time in Melee when the least amount of people were entering tournaments. He already fell off and lost his top spot before his first retirement.

[@randumo24]

@@blazinbutter6677 You sound extremely stupid trying to defend someone like Ken when the facts are laid bare. Like I've said, he played pro for YEARS in the modern era after his first retirement and sucked. M2K on the other hand, after a couple of years of not really competing, is coming out and winning sets in Ultimate today at CEO lol. Having Ken above M2K is just clueless as to how good they both are. Especially when M2K was beating Ken back in 06-07 lol.

[@Ale_LSH]

@@randumo24 Ken beat m2k most of the time back in the MLG days. Even m2k has Ken in his top 5 of all time.

[@captainfalconmain6576]

@@randumo24 he’s got 13th at evo he beat westballz which I think west was the favorite for reasons

[@randumo24]

@@captainfalconmain6576 I'd just like to point out that doing anything years ago at EVO in Smash was much less of an accomplishment as it sounds like, even though the prestige is high because EVO is overall FGC huge. The reason is because the entire tournament is done with 3 game sets at that point. So, upsets are much more likely to occur when that's the case. In the traditional Melee majors, they like to start running 5 game sets as early as top 64 or even in pools sometimes. Not to mention the Marth/Falco matchup. Still, if your best accomplishment since '08 is 13th at EVO, it is telling to your true skill level imo. M2K played in that same era, and he went on to be one of the gods of the game anyhow.

[@ExilixE]

I think the top 10 should be Armada Mango HBox Ken M2K PPMD Leffen Azen Zain PC Chris

[@captainfalconmain6576]

Players i think will be here an 5 years amsa ibdw wizzy if he enters more

[@Cashanator]

what a spectacle Melee is

[@oui_chapeau]

Armada is the greatest of all time. He competed in an era with all the other gods/Leffen/plup and was by far the most dominant. He has a winning record against all gods. He has better results than mang0 in every tournament series (Genesis, Evo, Apex, Summit, etc.). Check the numbers everyone!

[@SpOoOokyGhost]

Every tournament series? Go look at the Big House

[@oui_chapeau]

@@SpOoOokyGhost you're right, that's one

[@evanshanley8110]

We all know the numbers, but what pushes mang0 ahead is his longevity. He's beaten pretty much every top player in their prime.

[@curtismaloney792]

All hail the one true king. Mango.

[@pablethetable]

Blur is the best player in my heart

[@milesh2004]

Insane the amount of credit they still give to the old gen. Seems like there was no definite scale they ranked the players on. Great video anyway

[@gilgamesh5796]

You have to, otherwise the list ends up being really predictable, and something you could have just compiled yourself by just looking at the results.