What if Faramir Went to Rivendell Instead of Boromir? Theory

[@ellisb3814]

faramir is pure and must be protected

[@MenoftheWest]

Ellis Bakhtiar Very true. Not all people in Middle-Earth are easily corrupted. Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@ellisb3814]

no problem, really cool channel :) keep the videos coming!

[@MenoftheWest]

Ellis Bakhtiar Will do! :)

[@apwurst]

YES THAT Is SO TRUE AND WHY DID HIS father Try TO BURN HIM alive after HE SHOT WITH 2 arrows in the left side OF HIS CHEST ALSO IT WAS A GOOD THING THAT GANDALF AND PIPPIN got there just IN TIME to stop DENETHOR before IT WAS TO Late AND FARAMIR WAS BURNED TO death becauseTHEN HE would have died before DENETHOR would and could realize that FARAMIR was indeed still alive and then it would be too late to save him 🐴🌳🌲🍀🍃🌱🏞🏰⚔🛡☠⚰😡😭😱👍👎👏💂👬🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 shame on him we're trying to burn his younger son well his younger son was still alive 🚓🚑🚢🌋⛺️🏞🏥🏬🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯

[@apwurst]

and I bet his brother would've kept that from happening if his brother wouldn't survive and had not been SHOT AND killed by three arrows

[@nordicwarrior5014]

"The mightiest man may be slain by one arrow, and Boromir was pierced by many" Boromir was a BADASS and a true noble man till the end.

[@KatrinEgilsdottir]

Yes!! ... if the roles were swapped i think the story would go much darker in my opinion. Part of what made Faramir respect the power of the rings seduction was the fact that it swayed Boromir who he thought was the strongest hearted man in the kingdom. I think Faramir looked up to Boromir so much that were they both alive Faramir would have also wanted to go to Gondor to seek Boromir's aid and at the battle of Amon Hen he would not hold as long as Boromir in the last stand with the Hobbits as Boromir was more stout in combat. The rest would play out the same until Frodo was in Ithilien. Boromir would not be able to let Frodo go as Faramir did and would instead bring it to Gondor where the quest would fail with Sauton throwing everything at Gondor for the ring

[@nordicwarrior5014]

@@KatrinEgilsdottir Yeah I agree. God Bless.

[@PhatOof]

Issue with this theory is that you forget about Legolas. As a Wood Elf he is an expert tracker and an elf, meaning he could resist the ring's power for a time. Also take into account that Isildur wasn't immediately corrupted, but he felt the power of the ring, AND didn't know the consequences of not destroying it. If Faramir had known the consequences of holding it (which he did) and hadn't held it for long he would have been able to destroy it. I also believe that Frodo would have been able to destroy the ring because, as you pointed out, he hadn't been a ringbearer for so long (and he had a ton of people there who would make sure that heddid, they wouldn't give him time to done the ring, as well as the fact Legolas would be able to sense and shoot him (think of how he sensed Sauron's presence at Edoras). Great theory though.

[@gilsonpassos1047]

Great points.

[@barlim406]

exactly what i thought, i think legolas wouldn't think twice to shoot him

[@allicide166]

I agree frodo wouldn't have had the ring for as long and wouldnt have been as corrupted by it. Plus there were six others with him to talk him down. Remember that bilbo didn't even know what the ring was until later and all it took for him to drop it was gandlaf yelling at him.

[@ilovenycsomuch]

Agree with everything you said

[@vuquocnhat2988]

I think you're right. Frodo would be in a much better mental condition with all his friends around. Plus that when the fellowship reached Mount Doom, I believe Legolas would not hesitate to shoot Frodo if he is to turn and Gimli would easily throw it in the lava, so the One Ring would be destroyed eventually.

[@sacksofrice3535]

What if Sam didn't leave the Shire

[@MenoftheWest]

Gia Hope Thanks for watching! I'll add it to the list!

[@TheSilverPhoenix100]

The quest would have failed as Frodo would have fallen to corruption or have been murdered by Gollum

[@ttbrianm]

Very true, Sam was Frodo's emotional and physical support through the latter half of the quest. Without Sam, the ring would most likely be taken by the orcs after Frodo was wrapped up by shelob.

[@lordspamify]

I think Sam is the true hero of the whole story

[@vysearcadia522]

I think its a little deeper than that... more like a Ying-Yang. but instead of Light and Darkness, its Frodo and Gollum. And Sam was keeping them balanced long enough so that the conflict would ensue at Mordor where the ring would be destroyed. Also notice that this same balance is preserved even in the end.... After Sauron was defeated, evil had left the world. So too must the last of the elves leave, Gandalf the White, and all those who had the burden of evil from the ring. Middle-Earth was not to have too much good or evil it seems. The balance restored for men alone.

[@hannah.theparatroopergirl.8881]

What if Glorfindel, Lord of the House of the Golden Flower, joined the Fellowship? How would his presence affect the story of the destruction of the One Ring?

[@MenoftheWest]

the paratrooper girl I'll add that to the theory list! For a short response (and my opinion), I think his tact was with military prowess and battle commanding, so stealth wasn't his main game, but he would've been good all the same. I would really have to think about this topic, but ultimately it is like if Elrond, Galadriel or even another Maia besides Gandalf would've also joined the company, I think there would've been way to much power within the company to go unnoticed for long. The wraths would be able to make out the white glow of his Ainur within their own realm, and that possibly would've led them straight to the One Ring. Great comment and question, thank you so much for your support!

[@biiianciii888]

I'd love to see that too

[@animistchannel2983]

I've also thought about this (since the 1970's lol). I know Tolkien fudged histories/timelines a bit to carry some of his favorite 1st age heroes into LotR as incidental characters, but Glorfindel is still the guy who killed the king of the balrogs at Gondolin, and then he had over 6000 years to level up from there... The 9 ringwraiths all together literally threw themselves into the flood to flee from him so they could re-form and report back in Mordor, because he could have slaughtered them all right there and made it boring for later. I mean, his horse had actual jingle bells on to see if anyone wanted a piece of that action! He even knew how the witch-king would die for good, and he had made a joke/pun prophecy about it. He was just too badass and visionary to be interesting in the main plot. Yah, totally fun for a while, but not interesting in the long run. The problem with sending Glorfindel with the fellowship had multiple aspects. For one thing, he really would draw too much attention by smacking the crap out of whatever they encountered in the early going. More importantly, it would have made the story much less interesting, because the other characters wouldn't have the chance to evolve in those desperate developmental times... including Gandalf's transformation. As an epic tale, LotR is about people rising to the occasion and making critical efforts at the crucial moments, finding their own way. Glorfindel would have made it too easy for too long in the storytelling process and in their own lives. He was basically just there to hold the fort at Rivendell until the fates played out, and then he was off to Valinor, either way. He had already done his part, and it was time for others to step up and learn to carry the heroic banner for themselves. That's basically the whole point and process of the story. By the same literary method, that's why Bombadil stayed in the Old Forest, the Ents didn't march to Pelannor Fields with the Rohirrim, and the army of the dead returned to the mountain after freeing Pelargir. They each served their purpose in the story, their own kind of deux ex machina that could be invoked for a particular chapter if the main characters proved their own virtues, and then these forces have to go back to the background so the main characters can evolve to the next stage. Still... for 40 years, I've considered how cool it would be to travel and adventure with Glorfindel. As they said of Ace Rimmer in the Red Dwarf tv show: "What a guy!" :)

[@thereisaplace]

animist channel Excellent analysis, especially your point of some many individual “deux ex machina” characters. When I first started on LotR & The Silmarillion many, many, many years ago... Glorfindel’s history was still in question. Once I realized he was THE Glorfindel I too wondered why he wasn’t one of the nine. You’re points make perfect sense.

[@exsciencialux]

I've always reckoned that, just as at the Fords of the Bruinen, Glorfindel would have made the confrontation with Durin's Bane rather simple and anticlimactic. Knowing the history of his own people, the Balrog, upon taking one look at Glorfindel, would likely have decided upon discretion being the better part of valour, and jumped of the Bridge of Khazad-Dûm without any further prompting by Gandalf. Which would of course have made Gandalf's rather necessary character progression quite impossible.

[@LocIsBac]

If I may propose a different ending as opposed to the bad end you have here; It was at the Crack of Doom where the Ring, it's doom perceived, would make its force against the Fellowship in earnest. Its workings had before been but tendrils of smoke grazing Frodo's mind they were now claws of malice that sank deep into his skin. Frodo, his trembling hands steadying as he lost himself, took the precious Ring from above the fire and tugged it from the chain. “No. It came to me. It is mine! My own!” he cried as he turned to his kin, “The Ring is mine!” “Master Frodo, no!” Samwise cried. The three hobbits tried to reach for their kin however he had already slipped on the One Ring and was gone from their sight. Yet he would not slip away so easily as Faramir, ever cautious of the Ring and its power, had place himself in the door, blocking the exit. Legolas and Gimli were there with him, each careful in their stand and with their arms extended down to make a blockade of the doorway Legolas had bristled when Faramir had held him and Gimli back to advise they take measures for this however he was old and wise and knew the honesty in such and so he called Gimli and together they made to bar the way. Frodo would not be deterred and he pushed past his friends, sending Merry and Pippin to the ground, and striking Sam in the face as he stepped past. Gimli cried out for their friends and broke rank as he saw Merry had stumbled and was near to the edge, Pippin scrambling to aid. Legolas also stepped forward, his eyes upon Sam as he fell to his knees clutching his face. Faramir alone stayed to his purpose, for he had not forsaken his Father's will and taken leave of his brother for naught. He still felt the fear of falling to the Ring and so he sought out signs of Frodo. His eyes were less than the clear eyes of Legolas but still saw well and he could see the steam and the smoke bellow and sway and saw the hobbits fall and knew the footprints to be Frodo. As the invisible hobbit made for the door Faramir drew his bowstring and at half let fly with a single arrow. Frodo appeared, a shout of pain on his lips as he fell back, the arrow having struck him in his left breast at the same wound as the Witchking had given him on Weather-top. Had he not given his mithril shirt to take the tower before the weak shot would never have touched him, yet he had. Frodo's hands came apart and a glint if gold fell away as the Ring rolled across the stone and came to settle on the edge of the flame. Frodo, still howling in fury and pain gave Faramir a gaze of hatred before scampering toward where his precious lie. Sam was there, then, pouncing upon his dearest friend and holding him at bay as he reached for the One Ring. Frodo and Sam would so swift battle, grasping at one another as Sam sought to hold Frodo back and Frodo sought to grasp Sam's throat. For his part, Faramir was weak kneed and slumped, his effort and tension against one whom he saw as a friend weighing heavily upon his heart. And though he saw the battle between the two Hobbits he could not intervene, nor could he bring the strength to his legs to go and aid Gimli and Legolas as they, with Pippin, pulled the hobbit Merry from the edge and back toward solid ground. Frodo, having broken free of Samwise's grasp dove forward, his need of the Ring overtaking his furry as he made to take it once more. His fingers brushed the cold metal as a Nazgul's cry came from the mouth of the cave. Frodo had moved and felt he had won as his fingers barely caught the ring, until Sam found purchase and pulled Frodo back once more. Frodo's grip was loose and the ring came free, sailing through the air and over the side, toward the lava below. A great shadow pursued after however the Felbeast would find no lift in the hot air and would tumble with it's rider to the fire below, along with the One Ring. With a geyser of red rock and flame the deed was done, and Frodo, sword now in hand and poised to strike dearest Sam was released. In the distance the Nazgul cried for their doom was upon them and within the Crack of Doom the pool bubbled and the stone shook as the Fellowship fled, Frodo weak and wounded, from the molten flood. And from here the end would be mostly the same. The Eye would die and Mordor would break, and a host of Eagles would come to the Fellowship. But there would be bitterness as well as the shot to his earlier wound would leave Frodo unable to move his left arm for the rest of his days and in pain from the damage worsened by the arrow. Faramir, for his part, would never overcome his regret at his actions, constantly asking if there was another way to the dark before sleep. Boromir, alive and well, would become the Steward of Gondor and be named Prince of Minas Ithil by King Elesar who would be crowned by Gandalf upon his return. Faramir is made the Prince of Arnor and would take rule of the lands near the Shire, where he would often go to try and make up his damage to dear Frodo. He would lead the Dunedine rangers in stopping the Scouring of the Shire alongside his hobbit companions. He would visit Rivendel and other friends often until the end of his days. And he would treat with the white council to take Frodo across the seas for only there would his wounds heal. Frodo would sail West with Bilbo and the others and though Faramir always would be mournful of the harm he had done him he counted the fair and good captain of Gondor, ranger, and fellow as a dear and true friend for all his life. And there it is, a good end version based on Faramir being more cautious, even overly so, and fearful of the ring than any other of the Fellowship. He took steps and would succeed in preventing the Ring's continued existence not in spite of but because of his fear and his actions to confront and deal with that fear which is a theme I think Tolkien would approve of.

[@darkage5]

Your ending also leaves it up to destiny. The mad scramble for the ring gives it a 50/50 chance of falling into the lava or going back to Frodo. I like it.

[@KatrinEgilsdottir]

I disagree... if the roles were swapped it would go much darker in my opinion. Part of what made Faramir respect the power of the rings seduction was the fact that it swayed Boromir who he thought was the strongest hearted man in the kingdom. I think Faramir looked up to Boromir so much that were they both alive Faramir would have also wanted to go to Gondor to seek Boromir's aid and at the battle of Amon Hen he would not hold as long as Boromir in the last stand with the Hobbits as Boromir was more stout in combat. The rest would play out the same until Frodo was in Ithilien. Boromir would not be able to let Frodo go as Faramir did and would instead bring it to Gondor where the quest would fail with Sauron throwing everything at Gondor for the ring

[@reneedailey1696]

Tolkien very clearly said that nobody, Elf, Man or Ainu, could withstand the Ring in the place where it was made, so...no.

[@MegaMementoMori]

Great alternate-alternate ending. Been there, done that, I also stayed late into the night to write how one of these theories should end up ending :D

[@XXAnthonyCarmineXx]

Nice essay

[@pedrosalimen7164]

What if beorn joined the fellowship. What if thranduil died in the battle of the five armies. What if Smaug didn't take erebor. What if Umbar actually succeeded at reach the Pellenor fields. What if the easterlings focused on the south with mordor. What if sauron stayed at dol guldur. What if the blue wizards didn't go to the east. What if Lindon and Ered Luin participated at the war of the ring. What if Erebor wasn't take back. What if Smaug leaded sauron's army's.

[@MenoftheWest]

I'll add them to the video list! Thank you for commenting and watching!

[@kingthranduilofmirkwood385]

How dare you question my fate.

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

+King Thranduil of Mirkwood I still have the most powerful army in Arda

[@kingthranduilofmirkwood385]

Denethor II, Steward of Gondor Keep telling yourself that, fireboy.

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

+King Thranduil of Mirkwood Your weak army can not defeat even a baby

[@chrishall3847]

all 3 of these end badly. give us a few god damn happy endings ffs

[@veronika4870]

my thoughts :D

[@dixonbourne]

Exactly

[@Mauricio-oo3dk]

What If there were no flying beasts?

[@NotceDragon]

There are too many happy endings lol. Endings like these makes stories more interesting and have a better twist to an alternate ending lol

[@lelouche25]

Jesus if my boy Bormir lives EVERYONE else dies. Why do you hays the line of Stewards of Gondor xD.

[@cartercopeland1956]

what if Balin's expedition succeeded.

[@killerclone1786]

what if the dwarves send a army to rohan or gondor. or the elves of mikwood sent a army

[@MenoftheWest]

I can add that to the video list! They were also fighting their own battles in the North at the time, so it would've been difficult for them, but not completely out of the question! Thanks for watching and thank you for the comment!

[@vixendoe2545]

I think Tolkien wrote in the HoME, that there might have been Elves at the Black Gates. I am not sure but I seem to remember reading that they would have come from Thranduil.

[@jhonascastillo6996]

@@vixendoe2545 no its the son of elrond join force with aragorn in the last battle of the blackgate

[@vixendoe2545]

@@jhonascastillo6996 Yes, that too.

[@riftbandit223]

What I never understood about the "take up your destiny" "its your path" "its your bloodline" "become who you were BORN to be" is that wasn't the Gift of Man the Gift that they can forge they OWN destiny and path? unlike the Elves and dwarfs?

[@MenoftheWest]

Salazar Ravenclaw Indeed, you are correct. The destiny of man is free and wild, but for Aragorn, so many people looked to him and his bloodline for hope, and because Sauron grew once again, and Aragorn had no heirs at this point, he had to rise to the valour of his forbearers, or fade into nothing with the rest of the Dúnedain. But he did make his own destiny, he went far beyond what was expected of him and ultimately returned the world to peace.

[@zachiboi5253]

Actually, if Faramir had been corrupted by the ring the rest of the company would have snapped Faramir out of the Ring's illusion and destroy it just about when the Nazgul show up.

[@MenoftheWest]

Hardcore Zach I think that would've been their intentions, but I'm not sure if they would've had the willpower or time to do so, but I can't be sure. Thanks for watching and for the comment!

[@zachiboi5253]

We'll Faramir could have given the ring to someone else to destroy it, liken one of the other hobbits who were still with Frodo before he fell in this timeline. After all Hobbits are not easy to corrupt. I also think (even though this is off topic) if Sauron did regain the Ring and took over Middle Earth his reign would be short lived as Eru or the other Valar would have to intervene before Sauron set his eyes west to Valinor, thus beginning a second War of Wrath.

[@zachiboi5253]

And by the way, good video Men of the West.

[@MenoftheWest]

Hardcore Zach Very true, the Hobbits are strong. And Manwë wouldn't let it go any further than Middle-Earth you are very right!

[@zachiboi5253]

Oh, I forgot to mention that you should do a video based on Aragorn taking the ring, he has the potential to use the ring because of his lineage. And just incase if you don't know, one of Aragorn's ancestors is in fact a Maiar. This video should be quite interesting for us LOTR fans.

[@painfan476]

Faramir was a favorite character of mine.

[@albussr1589]

He is the best!

[@mdlipps]

Indeed. Faramir and Aragorn are my favorites. The Rangers and the Dúnedain were very interesting to me and I wished they showed more of them in the movies.

[@MrHort55]

Same his my Xbox account

[@RozX0X0]

I think Faramir and Finrod would've been the best of friends. The two most pure people to ever walk Middle Earth

[@HydroBud98]

Dude your alternate stories are ruthless...

[@NordicTG]

What if Theoden didn t die at Pellnor fields?

[@andrewmacrae8601]

here is a list: What if Bilbo killed Gollum when he had the chance? What if Mary and Pippin hadn't followed Frodo and Sam? What if Sauron wasn't driven from Mirkwood? What if Gandalf the Grey never became Gandalf the White? (as in the Balrog didn't kill him in Moria)

[@MenoftheWest]

I'll add them to the list! Thanks for watching!

[@ttbrianm]

If Merry and Pippin hadn't followed Frodo and Sam they would have been caught by the ring wraiths in the Shire. it was their knowledge of that part of the Shire that enabled them to escape by using the ferry.

[@dug5940]

Androidigon if he killed Smeagol, gollum wouldn't have been there to bite it off Frodos finger. Frodo would claim the ring and live about as long as it took for a nazgul to fly to mt doom and kill Bilbo.

[@rickybindahoose6193]

Dug Impossible if you put it that way if Bilbo killed Gollum, Frodo would have drowned in the Dead Marshes.

[@dug5940]

Rick Baker your right!

[@MenoftheWest]

To be fair, looking through the voting and comments again... The Faramir and Thorin theory videos did tie in the end, so maybe the next time I do a theory video, it should be the Thorin one? Let me know what you want to see, as it is your channel! It'll be a few weeks at least until the next theory as I don't want to get burned out or anything, but as always thank you and let me know what you want to see next!

[@projectover3223]

Hey the video was nice. But i think the fight at helms deep would be not so long because Saruman dont had enough time to raise 10000 Uruk-hais and also the army of Mordor. And i think Boromir would not retreat from Osgiliath but ask for reinforcment. And i think that Faramir would not go alone to find Frodo because Sam is to loyal to Frodo and then Sam would held back Faramir of killing Frodo. But its your theory, i dont want to say that you´re wrong just saying my opinoin to your theory. :D

[@MenoftheWest]

Shadow Hunter Those are completely fair points! Again, it's really hard to say how it would all go down and how long those battles would last, I think Faramir would've done it to save the West, but Sam wouldn't have been too happy about it. Thanks for watching!

[@CharlesOffdensen]

What was Saruman plan? What was he trying to do?

[@MenoftheWest]

CharlesOffdensen Ultimately take Rohan and burn the Westfold to the ground if he could, alike to the regular continuity.

[@TheSilverPhoenix100]

His overall plan was to build up a force to eventually chalange and destroy Sauron then most likely take his place as the new Lord of the Rings however he relied on strength of arms and warfare which never would have been able to truely defeat Sauron

[@CharlesOffdensen]

I am asking about the regular continuity. I mean why does he want to defeat and conquer Rohan? What is his END goal? Why does he unit himself with Sauron, why does he betray the white council, did he really believed he could control or challenge Sauron? I guess Saruman hoped to betray Sauron as well and rule the world alone, but what was his plan?

[@TheSilverPhoenix100]

His plan was build an army and fortress to rival Sauron's then hopefully aquire the ring to challange Sauron destroy him and become the ruler of middle earth. As for Rohan he saw them as a threat should they and Gondor rise up together and challange him

[@radupricopie9648]

TheSilverPhoenix100 Lol true. If he got the ring, he would be able to beat Sauron, but otherwise nope.

[@stoneminer4464]

Goodness gracious! That was going so well until they got to the Cracks of Doom. Ah well. A lot of people in the comments have been saying things like, "Frodo wouldn't have been corrupted since he had less time", "Faramir/Legolas/Gimli could have thrown it in the fire cuz they special", etc. Problem is, no one of his own free will could destroy the One Ring, not even by throwing himself and the Ring in the fire. However, there are a couple ways to make a happy ending out of this story. As another commenter pointed out, Eru would have intervened somehow. One way is that Frodo could possibly convince Legolas and Faramir to let Gollum off with a strong warning, especially since Faramir was a merciful man anyway as shown in TTT. Then perhaps Gollum would have returned at the Crack of Doom and bit the Ring off Frodo's finger, and all would come to pass as in the original books, just with more Eagles and less deaths. :) The other possible happy ending involves what happened in this video up to when Frodo takes the Ring for himself. Faramir fights Frodo for the ring on the bridge and seeing as he cannot make him take it off, wrests it from Frodo's hand by force, perhaps cutting off Frodo's finger with his sword. Either way, the Ring would have then slipped from their grasp in the midst of the struggle by the intervention of Eru and fell into the lava by "accident". Both Frodo and Faramir live, as well as the rest of the Fellowship. And as the Gaffer says, all's well that ends better.

[@nidh1109]

Didn't know 'no one could destroy the ring of his own free will?' The quest of getting to mt doom to do this then doesn't make sense! Unless Gandalf knew that Frodo and Gollum needed that end fight etc. But he indicated only a vague idea that Gollum would play 'some' part!

[@kingaragornii9940]

This timeline changed completely, in a very very good and logical way. One chess piece that would change the outcome of the war. I Iove it.

[@earganon]

A fun fanfiction what if and I really enjoyed watching it. However, you made some inconsistent changes between the movie lore and book lore. I’m going to assume the story follows the books (because you include the grey company and Prince Imrahil). First off a note, if we accept the fellowship leaves Rivendell earlier, Gandalf’s plan to cross Caradhras may not be foiled by the terrible winter storms, skipping the detour into Moria. Nevertheless, I will accept your premise all the way to Gandalf’s and Aragorn’s meeting and pick up there. Creating the split between Aragorn and Gandalf makes little to no sense, even with the urgency from Galadriel’s message to Aragorn. Going to Minas Tirith in the new time continuity does very little for the Men of the West. In the original story Aragorn provoked Sauron into action by using the Palantir of Orthanc after Pippin peered into it. Sauron thinking Saruman acquired the ring and then lost it to the returning heir of Elendil, committed to the siege of Gondor far before he was ready. Without this provocation Sauron would bide his time for god knows how long, which simultaneously relocates the corsair fleet to Umbar, making the undead army useless (which only responded to the banner of Elendil woven by Arwen, which will not be done in time by the new chronology). You are correct in saying Gondor would have more time to organise in concordance to the ring mission, but it’s impossible to know how long they would have waited for the assault on Gondor fields to kick off. Another problem relates to Theoden. In the new time continuity (most likely seeing as you didn’t specify dates) Theoden would be ripped from Grima’s treachery before the loss at the Fords of the Isen. Just like in regular continuity Theoden would marshal his troops and rides to battle, meeting Saruman’s forces at the Fords of the Isen (because there wouldn’t be a messenger telling him of the terrible defeat at the Ford which prompted Theoden’s choice to ride to Helmsdeep). Here Rohan would fight Saruman’s army in open battle and either continue to siege Isengard or fall (to this fate I cannot be certain). Now to the last issue, Mount Doom. Firstly, as stated above there isn’t any reason for Sauron to suspect Aragorn wields the ring. Secondly, When Smeagol regains the ring no struggle between Frodo and he occurs. Smeagol in his glee dances into the volcano by himself. Thirdly, Isildur never attempted to destroy the ring in Mount Doom. He took the ring from Sauron body as wergild for his father’s death and left Mordor, thinking Sauron’s work was fully undone (I may not correctly remember, but I think, during the council of Elrond, Elrond and Gandalf weren’t fully sure if it throwing the ring into Mount doom would destroy it). Now I agree with you, Faramir may not be strong enough to destroy the ring, but it certainly isn’t related to his Numenorean ancestry. Though no matter this outcome I think Gimli as the most resistant to the ring’s corruption off the none hobbits would intervene with a heavy heart, when the Nazgûl arrive and do all in his might to finish their query, throwing Faramir with the ring into the deeps if needs must.

[@MenoftheWest]

You have very good points, and again it is hard to say, in either version what would've come to fruition as we don't have Tolkien's speculations on it. I will say that there are definitely some details that need to happen in order for other events to happen, and in this theory, I would say that either those events, or others that may goad Sauron into war, etc. would happen. Sauron was taking his time, true. But Osgiliath was always contested and he could've hit Gondor with little to no notice or warning. Théoden, with enough warning and council, could've driven back into Helm's Deep all the same. Whether it was the notice of the concurrent death of his son or something else. And Gimli was stout true, but like all Dwarves, very susceptible to greed and he would've fallen easily to corruption. But I will say, you definitely bring up many good points, and theory crafting will always have holes in them, because our narrative that we know only provides us enough clues to guess. I want to thank you so very much for commenting, and points like these make me really want to continue to improve for theories in the future.

[@earganon]

I agree, if the prerequisites were met (through some deus ex machina magic, it’s a fan theory after all) the story could very well lead to your final act. However, I would still like to contest the ultimate fate of the quest with two points: How you read/interpret Tolkien’s letter 246 and the ring’s influence over the dwarf race. I would particularly like to refer to the outcome if Gollum was redeemed (If Sam had not blighted Gollum’s repentance on the stairway to Shelob’s lair). Tolkien describes Gollum’s inner turmoil between the redemptive aspect due to a love for Frodo and the mastery the Ring still had on him, cumulating in Gollum claiming the ring in Barad-dûr from Frodo (satisfying the desire of the rings possession) only to voluntarily sacrifice himself for Frodo’s sake, casting himself into the abyss. “I think that an effect of his partial regeneration by love would have been a clearer vision when he claimed the Ring. He would have perceived the evil of Sauron, and suddenly realized that he could not use the Ring and had not the strength or stature to keep it in Sauron’s despite: the only way to keep it and hurt Sauron was to destroy it and himself together - and in a flash he may have seen that this would also be the greatest service to Frodo.” - Tolkien letter 246 faculty.smu.edu/bwheeler/tolkien/online_reader/TolkienLetters246.pdf Tolkien continues to state that Frodo would come to the same conclusion, if not interrupted by Gollum, and would most likely cast himself into the depths. Now back to the story. If we concede Faramir intervenes instead of Gollum, I think we would see a repeat of Frodo’s actions (including the aforementioned resolution) only as a longer internal debate on the cliffs (for his will had not long eroded under the pressure of the Ring’s burden). However, perhaps too long as you concluded and the Ringwraiths approach. This is why I narratively fell to Gimli, even though I expect Faramir would cast himself down before the eight come to him as feigning servants to his will. The Ring had no power over dwarves, much to Sauron’s dismay, for they aren’t like the children of Illúvatar and Tolkien once remarked them more akin to clockwork. All the ring achieved is make dwarves extremely greedy (though we don’t know if it is instant or through long term exposure). Thus stands Faramir on the precipice like a stone statue in internal debate, the Hobbit’s dismayed and heartbroken by Frodo’s betrayal. Tears run from their eyes and Sam most of all was overcome by a mindless grief at the death of his master. The leathery wings of the fellbeasts becoming louder and the dread of the Nazgûl fell upon the company. Legolas and Gimli approach, calling to their friend and guide, but he warrants no response. At each step the Ring would notice the impending danger and reaches far. Legolas halts momentarily the ring playing into his desires and fears. Images of seagulls appear in his mind, recounting the warning of Galadriel. How could he not dwell in the forests he loved so ever more, no! Perhaps if he took the ring Mirkwood could be cleansed. Trees would once again grow from shore to shore and he needn’t leave, for all the land would be as he of Greenleaf. Yet the dwarf the ring could not reach and with the struggle of his closest friend, he knew what need be done though it pained him greatly, to which he may never find forgiveness in himself. Had the ring not been in Faramir’s hand above the abyss, facing away from Gimli, he would perhaps fall to temptation for the golden treasure, as the Tegwar runes danced like fire, a ring without equal, for which he may delve deep and hoard gold and gems hidden away without equal. He called: “May Mahal absolve me, for what I must do.” And his pace hastened. “You were one of the wisest of your kind, and no greater guide we could have wished for. Yet here at the end of all, I see none could bear the burden of its will. Let this be no strain on your honour, as it hasn’t on poor Frodo. Thus I will serve you as you served us nobly on the long road.” Gimli’s words are but a far whisper to Faramir’s ears as the dwarf crashes against him like a bull, plummeting into the deep he hears for the last time “Forgive me, Faramir my dear friend.” This is what I guess would happen under the given circumstances. Now I leave it open if Gimli falls with Faramir, because it’s rather inconsequential to the narrative. Just like in regular continuity the question remains if Eru intervened in the end, in regards to the ring being out of Gimli’s sight, allowing him to not fall prey to his possible desire to keep the Ring as a treasure of his own. Nevertheless, my apologies for the long post and I hope to see more of your what if’s in the future. I really enjoy them and would like to recommend the following: -What if the Easterlings won the Siege of Erebor? Or perhaps some more obscure -What if Castamir came out the victor in the Gondorian civil war? -What if Arvedui wintered in Forochel instead of sailing to Lindon?

[@Ee21k]

With Aragon being a numanorian, it's possible he's more bound to the songs of the mayar than normal humans. Perhaps he inherited a destiny in addition to longer life

[@KatrinEgilsdottir]

I disagree... if the roles were swapped it would go much darker in my opinion. Part of what made Faramir respect the power of the rings seduction was the fact that it swayed Boromir who he thought was the strongest hearted man in the kingdom. I think Faramir looked up to Boromir so much that were they both alive Faramir would have also wanted to go to Gondor to seek Boromir's aid and at the battle of Amon Hen he would not hold as long as Boromir in the last stand with the Hobbits as Boromir was more stout in combat. The rest would play out the same until Frodo was in Ithilien. Boromir would not be able to let Frodo go as Faramir did and would instead bring it to Gondor where the quest would fail with Sauron throwing everything at Gondor for the ring

[@Optikerlp]

I really like your "What if" - Videos, just found your channel today. But I have to say that I do not think that Frodo would have fallen for the Ring in the end because he would not have been corrupted by Gollum and would have been physically stronger due to Faramirs provisions from Ithilien.

[@samwrai]

Besides the road wouldn't be that hard and long, not compared like was in the books. So he could destroy it if Faramir didn't be corrupted in the way to Mount Doom.

[@nickbabyak8135]

I agree, I think that’s how this one ends, actually

[@AvenKallan]

Frodo Also would've had his will reinforced by the presence of Mary and Pippin as well.

[@tjsmith8348]

That and also I don't think Faramir would have been corrupted so quickly, as even Boromir gave up the ring when he had already decided on taking it, Faramir being more virtuous would probably hold out long enough to destroy it if Frodo did fail

[@veronika4870]

that's an interesting thought too

[@quimicoz]

You forgot one thing. Faramir was called by dream, not Boromir. That means Eru's original plan was for Faramir to go to Rivendell. That means a way to victory was already designed WITH Faramir. "How can an omniscient being need a plan B?" Simple: All plans depend on the unpredictable behaviour of beings gifted with freedom. And being less than totally predictable is a logical pre-requisite of being free. Thus there was probably, a plan B, a plan C... an infinitude of them. You also forget that individuals have different weaknesses and different strengths . Frodo's main weakness was to the feeling of being alone, helpless and feeling the weight of too much responsibility. In the Tolkien time-line, Frodo used the Ring to get relief from such feelings, even at Mount Doom. Gollum doing the last part of the job was, so to speak, Divine Providence. How would the story end, with plan A? At a certain point, a few meters from Mount Doom's mouth, an inspiration would touch Faramir. he would signal the others to stop and give one of his bow-strings (every archer carries some) to Frodo and instruct him to tie the ring to one arrow. Then, Faramir would shoot the arrow and never his hand would feel firmer, nor his aim truer. The arrow would fly beautifully, and dive in the mountain's mouth. And the reign of sauron would be over.

[@bbaileygaming1924]

For Gondor!

[@davidls187]

Even of Faramir did get corrupt, I'm pretty sure Legolas and Gimli would intervene. Elves and dwarves aren't as easily corrupted as men, and I think they would've teamed up to get the ring from Faramir and destroy it.

[@Basedbateman97]

that ending though i did not expect that at all, good video i wish we could see more of this and hope this series off yours will be more viewed they really deserve it.

[@vysearcadia522]

Has anyone noticed that Star Wars and Lord of the Rings have something in common? Star Wars -> Anakin Skywalker was percieved as the one who would bring peace to the universe and overthrow the sith. The prophecy said this but did not account for the jedi being slaughtered and the Empire that took over. However, Anakin did overthrow his master in the end. Lord of the Rings -> When the ring was lost, the first to find it was Sméagol. He lost it to Bilbo and it was handed down to Frodo. Ironically, the prophecy stated that _the halfing forth shall stand_ when _Doom is near at hand_. Thus the halfling was not Frodo but it was Sméagol in the form of Gollum who would save Middle-Earth. So if you are going to write a fictional book soon, play the trick of a prophecy. People love this stuff!

[@tar-maironlordofgifts5702]

One does not simply compare Lotr with Sw

[@CaptnJack]

I dont agree with the ending. If Faramir was strong and not desirous of the ring, why would this suddenly change? First why would Frodo take the ring and run. He would have travelled much better, been healthier and such and better able to resist the ring. Not having to be weakened, starving, injured, battered and hounded by gollum, Frodo would have born the ring much easier, and been able to toss it in the end into mount doom I think...

[@gregorybutts7411]

I agree. I think that there could have been a weakness in Faramir, that prevented him from destroying the ring, but that doesn't mean he had any desire to keep it for himself.

[@iljasidlun9096]

Yes!

[@brigidtheirish]

The ring's power the seduce grows as it nears its master. Faramir resisted the ring easily in the book, but he's still a mortal man, so he would have at best struggled to keep its influence at bay while inside Mount Doom. There are also more people there in this version of events. Remember the argument that rose over the ring in Rivendell? Imagine how much worse it could've gotten with the ring's increased power. All of this could easily delay them long enough for Sauron to kill them and claim the ring.

[@iljasidlun9096]

Yet Faramir withstood the ring right up until the 5 seconds it took to throw it into Mount Doom?

[@nickbabyak8135]

Ilja Sidlun the moment where you have to get rid of the ring is the hardest to resist. That’s why the hobbits were chosen as ringbearers, men are corrupted by power

[@AradanEnvinyatar]

Better idea: Aragorn cuts the ring form Sauron and the cycle repeats xD

[@VulKus117]

What if Saruman had stayed good?

[@MenoftheWest]

VulKus I'll add it to the list, thanks for watching and commenting!

[@radupricopie9648]

Men of the West Then he would summon that OP lighting storm he used on Charadras and rekt 50% of the orc army at minas tirith (if he decides to fuck the rules). The felowship, if they weren't on the mountain and thus a bit covered, would be zapped.

[@Geshiko-GuP]

well mate good job sins its on video be happy :D

[@ilovenycsomuch]

Radu Pricopie what a shame we lost such a powerful ally

[@josephmcbloggs8447]

@@MenoftheWest you can't say that one will end badly. It will be on easy mode

[@orionlewisdekirkbride1458]

I agree with most of this apart from the end though I like the theory I think Legolas would be more quick thinking and would stop Frodo just as he put the ring on and quickly throw it in before he fell to temptation

[@KatrinEgilsdottir]

I disagree... if the roles were swapped it would go much darker in my opinion. Part of what made Faramir respect the power of the rings seduction was the fact that it swayed Boromir who he thought was the strongest hearted man in the kingdom. I think Faramir looked up to Boromir so much that were they both alive Faramir would have also wanted to go to Gondor to seek Boromir's aid and at the battle of Amon Hen he would not hold as long as Boromir in the last stand with the Hobbits as Boromir was more stout in combat. The rest would play out the same until Frodo was in Ithilien. Boromir would not be able to let Frodo go as Faramir did and would instead bring it to Gondor where the quest would fail with Sauron throwing everything at Gondor for the ring

[@darthbricksempire3606]

He could probably shoot an arrow at the ring, so that it falls into the lava. I mean, he's an elf, he should be able to make such a shot

[@coletrain583]

If Faramir went in Boromir's's stead. His brother would still be alive.

[@mig50cc]

William Strother Impossible....his brother is played by Sean Bean.

[@EpicMathTime]

If Faramir went in Boromir's stead, Sauron would have won and they'd all be dead.

[@kevindegraaff9875]

",,, and he also didn't lose his horse' SAVAGE A V A G E

[@mariobonello2407]

Can you make a video explaining Sauron and why he doesn't have a physical form ? It would be very much appreciated.

[@MenoftheWest]

mario bonello Definitely! I'll add it to the list and to my next video poll! Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@theholyinquisition389]

Sauron, does have a physical form, thats the answer.

[@mariobonello2407]

Random123 qwertz Nah Bitch he did just wasn't mortal. When he appeared to the Elvs as Anatar he was in phyical form and during the fall of Numernor.

[@ADGZone]

mario bonello I believe he could take physical form but only for a short time, like in the deleted scenes from Return of the King Sauron took physical form to fight Aragorn

[@serjorahmormont6124]

Just to add to the discussion here (I found this channel only recently). Sauron CAN certainly change into a physical form, as all Maiar can. Gollum's account of seeing Sauron's "four-fingered" hand is a testimony to that. It should be noted that Anatar, the elf-like appearance, was the last "fair" (a much used word of description by Tolkien) form he took on. That is, during the Downfall of Numenor by the Valar, Sauron was caught off guard and got heavely damaged by the power of the Valar as well. It is suggested that this prevents Sauron from taking on any "fair" form and can only take on a dark form.

[@jasonneadle2614]

I gotta say, Yoystan, you get me through my work day. Thank you wherever you stay in Middle Earth!

[@joshuapatrick682]

Boromir meets Frodo in Ithilien and the quest fails. When’s lunch?

[@moistmike4150]

So if Faramir went north instead of Boromir, then Eowyn would still be available. *Me gleefully rubs hands together*

[@michaeldavis9190]

I thought that Boromir wasn't summoned in the books. I could have sworn that Boromir went out to find Elrond because he had his own reason to find him and he happened to arrive the day before the council. How would Denethor have known of the ring to tell Faramir to bring it to him?

[@MenoftheWest]

I did some more digging, and it was due to Faramir's dreams that Boromir went North to seek Elrond's house, as "Isildur's Bane" had been found in the dream and everything like that. It is true that they probably wouldn't have known exactly what that was or meant, so that could definitely be a plot hole to this theory. He was allowed to join the council though as his dream did relate to the One Ring. Denethor might have also had some knowledge about what Isildur's Bane was as he was the ruling Steward, and had access to the records, and to his sons telling him about these dreams. Thanks for the comment and for watching!

[@michaeldavis9190]

Any time. Also, I believe you might have explicitly stated this at one point, but are the Numenoreans your favorite race?

[@michaeldavis9190]

Two more things... I was wondering: are the Numenoreans your favorite race? I think you might have said this already, but I can't remember. Second: I like to imagine that Sam would have pushed Frodo in if Gollum wasn't there to fall in. Sam has always been the real hero in Tolkien's eyes anyway.

[@michaeldavis9190]

P.S. You have 300 subscribers now! Congratulations!

[@MenoftheWest]

I love Númenoreans and all the races in Middle-Earth, but my favorite races really are tied between the Race of Man and the Hobbits. They both are very true and courageous in different ways. And as for Sam pushing Frodo in, I don't know if he would've had the willpower because Frodo was his master and best friend. He would've tried to convince him to destroy it even until the end of the world (I think at least). And thank you very much, I'm happy to see the community continue to grow!

[@arealmurican8512]

I don't think Frodo would've turned at the end, cuz he would have had more members of the fellowship with him through out the whole journey, coaching and encouraging him, so by the time he reached mount doom, he would have thrown it right in. The reason he turned toward the end was an accumulation of stress, getting stung by shelob, having to sleep with one eye open all the time because of gollum, etc.

[@MorderElg]

Is this your own original "story(line)"? (as based on LotR and Middle Earth)If so, you are one hell of a storyteller. While it's mostly assumptions and speculation, they are all based on extensive knowledge of the character of everyone involved, and thus seems like the most plausible progression of events. I really enjoyed this. It's interesting to note, that even though things may play out very differently over the course of the story, things don't always end the way you would think. Kudos, and thank you for this one. I enjoyed it.

[@zombiechief2267]

Boromir should have lived! He was a good man, yeah the ring did corrupt him but he snapped back quick. I would have liked to see him get crowned with Aragorn at the end. Boromir was one of my favorite characters. For Gondor!!

[@princeblackelf4265]

Damn , things were going so well for most of this, hard left turn .

[@vaiyt]

I think another important change coming from Faramir in the Fellowship is that both Boromir and Denethor would be in Gondor to present a real challenge to Aragorn. Even if Denethor goes crazy and dies, and the Ring is destroyed, there would be a living Steward that wouldn't be inclined to just hand what he's been taught from birth to be his rightful rule over to a dirty foreigner.

[@Snakie747]

I actually think that Frodo would have had the strength to throw it into the fire. As you say, they get there a lot faster in this timeline, and it isn't until the closing days that Frodo really loses his strength entirely.

[@EpicMathTime]

No one can throw the ring into the fire.

[@מטגורג]

What if all the Elves had taken the invitation of the Valar and left middle Earth, leaving dwarves and men?

[@matthewmann8969]

Nice do what if Gimli was the one to be the holder of the ring

[@vrptl]

This is such an efficient way to solve the problem of middle earth, a. knowing full well how the events unfold, and b. having sort of a gods eye view. I would love to see a film unfold exactly this way because it would be such a satisfying watch. Great job on these videos, i'm truly enjoying the what ifs.

[@YoshtTheAwesome]

I think the rest of it is good but it doesn't seem to me you accounted for the Dead Marshes. Only Gollum new and could use a safe path through there and Faramir would not have been able to find one, as it says in the books that the reason that Gollum and the Hobbits could pass through is because they were light enough and anyone heavier would have sunk on the same path. Legolas would probably have few problems but Faramir and certainly Gimli would not have been able to go through the Dead Marshes. They could have gone round but that would have lost them time.

[@peger]

they might not even bother going to the black gate. Faramir would have realized that entering this way to Mordor was impossible. So there would be no need to wander through the dead marshes

[@0000thommes]

I never assumed that Faramir was as good a fighter as Boromir. With a less skilled warrior in the fellowship the passage through the Mines of Moria might have gone terribly wrong.

[@ReegPeeg]

Dude, you should do an episode on what would've happened if golum had taken the ring from frodo !

[@MenoftheWest]

Regis Shea I'll add it to the video list! Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@echuidor]

Gollum the Great, Lord Sméagol, consuming fish many times every day

[@Србин-Југоисточњак]

@@echuidor 😂😂😂👍🏽

[@warriorsofcamelotlotro3347]

Denethor would have still been an a-hole no matter what. Yes, his mind was broken from all the years he fought against Mordor but that said, he was turned into a gigantic jerk from the continuous struggle. Still, this is a wonderful postulation and I thoroughly enjoyed it!

[@KatrinEgilsdottir]

He is much less Jerkish in the books and more tactical. However, I believe it was the will of Eru Iluvatar that ensured it was Boromir that went through Denethor's actions...If the roles were swapped it would go much darker in my opinion. Part of what made Faramir respect the power of the rings seduction was the fact that it swayed Boromir whom he thought was the strongest hearted man in the kingdom who he loved and respected more than any other. I think Faramir looked up to Boromir so much that were they both alive Faramir would have also wanted to go to Gondor to seek Boromir's aid and at the battle of Amon Hen he would not hold as long as Boromir in the last stand with the Hobbits as Boromir was more stout in combat. The rest would play out relatively the same until Frodo was in Ithilien. Boromir would not be able to let Frodo go as Faramir did and would instead bring it to Gondor where the quest would fail with Sauron throwing everything at Gondor for the ring

[@marionbaggins]

Hey Mellon Great Video!!!! This Like All Your Other Fan Theories Will Make Me Wonder: What It Will Be Like In Certain Situations In Our Loved Book Series!!! Thx Marion Baggins!!!

[@MenoftheWest]

Marion Baggins Mae Govannen Mellon! Thank you very much for your support, as always!

[@marionbaggins]

Your Welcome Mellon!!!

[@Prodominatrix]

Your theory and way it plays out is good, the only thing I see as a problem to the ending you gave is I feel like Legolas would have had a better chance of finding Frodo once the ring is put on instead of Faramir, not hating on Farimir but Legolas has the best senses and tracking for finding an invisible hobbit on the run

[@cyberceltic]

I can see how if something goes too well, it's bound to be ruined somehow and they wouldn't be prepared for the unexpected. Though I wonder if Faramir started to sense the ring was taking control, would he have thrown himself into the lava along with the ring in order to save everyone. Thanks for taking this video request. I did have some other suggestions: -What if Galadriel took the ring from Frodo -What if Elrond had defeated Sauron and claimed the ring instead of Isildur -What if Smaug was killed before he took Erebor -What if the Fellowship was never discovered and attacked by the goblins and balrog in Moria

[@vaiyt]

Isildur, Gandalf and Galadriel were virtuous too and they all were tempted by the ring. Faramir isn't different.

[@VeritaForYou]

Great story!! liked it, pretty logical speculations... According to your story let me finish it my way: Legolas saw the corruption of Faramir and they had fight to the death, in this fight, Sam whose heart was destroyed by death of Frodo helps the Legolas to kill Faramir, (Sam was carring the ring after Frodo lost it after the fight with Shelob, so I think he would be able to carry it for awhile ) so Sam is taking the Ring to drop it in the fire, and Legolas after seeing Frodo betrayal does not trust Sam so he is holding him by hand. Sam Gets corrupted and here we got the same fight for destroying the ring like we got in Original story between Frodo and Gollum! Story ends in the same way, but I would kill Both Sam and Legolas, they both jump from the cliff in the fire with the ring!

[@KatrinEgilsdottir]

I disagree... if the roles were swapped it would go much darker in my opinion. Part of what made Faramir respect the power of the rings seduction was the fact that it swayed Boromir who he thought was the strongest hearted man in the kingdom. I think Faramir looked up to Boromir so much that were they both alive Faramir would have also wanted to go to Gondor to seek Boromir's aid and at the battle of Amon Hen he would not hold as long as Boromir in the last stand with the Hobbits as Boromir was more stout in combat. The rest would play out the same until Frodo was in Ithilien. Boromir would not be able to let Frodo go as Faramir did and would instead bring it to Gondor where the quest would fail with Sauron throwing everything at Gondor for the ring

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Love your wonderfully extensive (if ultimately doom-laden) speculative jaunt. How about doing a critique of the limited technological development in Tolkien's mythologies? Ainur, elves, men and dwarves; all variously and profoundly skilled in craft and mind yet devoid of science, surely the inevitable technological outcome of the intellectual progression of highly intelligent beings? Supernature vs Science in Arda; would Morgoth or Sauron have been defeated by the internal combustion engine?

[@MenoftheWest]

Keyboard Dancers Thank you! That would definitely be a fun video to make. I'll add it to the list. Thanks for watching!

[@dmdebruijn]

This is much better than Nerd of the Rings

[@johnlawrence9391]

Listening to the first part totally didn't make me cry 😭

[@ocon10731]

@John Lawrence lol I was so happy and smiling at the beginning for Faramir and then it went from 0-100 real fast and I was just kinda- what...uh ok. oops(?!)

[@michaelironstone]

I think this is how it would have played out at Mount Doom: Frodo can't destroy the One Ring and puts it on, running down the mountain. Faramir and Legolas track him down the mountainside, taking Sam with them. Faramir tackles Frodo once they find him and takes the ring. Faramir immediately casts the ring on the ground and turns his face from it, not wanting to be corrupted. He tells Sam, who has caught up with them, to take the ring. Sam takes the ring, immediately feeling its weight, and runs up the mountain toward Sammath Naur. Faramir turns and looks toward Barad-Dur, and sees the nine Nazgul coming fast toward them. Legolas runs up beside him and starts shooting them down fast as he did with the one above Anduin. Of course, he can't kill them all, but they are reduced. Meanwhile, Sam reaches Sammath Naur's door, runs to the crack of doom, and quickly casts the ring into the fires. They all run, still fairly fresh due to their supplies and rest in the Tower of Cirith Ungol. (This next part may be a little wrong) Eagles sent by Gandalf and Radagast then swoop down and rescue the Fellowship from the Lava. (Not sure if the eagles would have been there by now in this version...) The Ring is destroyed, and everyone survives! (Except Sauron...)

[@spooglet3279]

What if Saruman got the One Ring? To be more specific, his Uruk-Hai caught Frodo and Sam instead of Merry and Pippin.

[@SuperSongbird21]

There's a video relating this, it's titled "What if Saruman had Claimed the One Ring?"

[@jack.1.]

The Berserk Spoogz Saruman wouldn’t have got the ring anyway due to the Rohan riders.

[@Parasmunt]

I think he would have used it to make more rings of power, he and Sauron were both Maia in service to Aule the smith.

[@jlk461]

Wouldn't at least Faramir and/or Legolas be able to track an invisable Frodo? I mean he does still leave signs of his passage and if Gollum could do it then surely a trained ranger or elf could. What is more they did not become seperated before the crack by Gollum as Frodo and Sam did.This means that all six of the others would be there most likely positioned around him, and maybe even touching him when the ring took him and would block his exit intentionally or otherwise. And if they could track/grab him from the start then they could easily stop him from leaving the crack of doom. Then it would be a simple matter to dog pile him hold him down and take off the ring or Frodo's finger and throw it over the edge in one quick motion, not giving the Nazgul time to arive or ring a chance to tempt/influence them at the key moment as it had Frodo.

[@croweman6515]

"And doom falls apon the west... I HOPE YOU ALL ENJOYED!" lol

[@kingthranduilofmirkwood385]

The most underrated human in all of middle earth.

[@aryotaheri7421]

Very good video and fantastic creative thinking. The moment you said that the fellowship would slay Gollum I knew you were right and I could guess it would be trouble. Very interesting take :)

[@MenoftheWest]

aryo borzin Taheri Thank you so much! It means a lot! :)

[@Stujet013]

I love how you ended with them failing, keeping this alternate reality free of a fan fiction feeling where Faramir, the perfect hero doesn't end up overwriting all of the story. Nicely done.

[@KatrinEgilsdottir]

I disagree... if the roles were swapped it would go much darker in my opinion. Part of what made Faramir respect the power of the rings seduction was the fact that it swayed Boromir who he thought was the strongest hearted man in the kingdom. I think Faramir looked up to Boromir so much that were they both alive Faramir would have also wanted to go to Gondor to seek Boromir's aid and at the battle of Amon Hen he would not hold as long as Boromir in the last stand with the Hobbits as Boromir was more stout in combat. The rest would play out the same until Frodo was in Ithilien. Boromir would not be able to let Frodo go as Faramir did and would instead bring it to Gondor where the quest would fail with Sauron throwing everything at Gondor for the ring

[@WizardAnimations]

Pls do if sauron killed isildur

[@MenoftheWest]

Homie Wizard That is a great idea, I'll add it to the list! Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@WizardAnimations]

Thx men of the west. Also FINALLY someone who does lotr theories.

[@richardstark4456]

In the original Faramir does have the chance to kill Gollum but is dissuaded. In this version he may well refrain from killing Gollum, aware of how pathetic he was and Gollum's sense of destiny.

[@karamuller3163]

The more of these theories that i hear, the more I'm convinced the original story had to go the way it did.

[@jacobmiller6273]

Can you please provide a link to the picture at 11:29?

[@lordaniolist]

But that's just a theory! A Lotr theory!

[@ilovenycsomuch]

I definitely do not agree with your ending- I feel like Isildur failed because we had the ring a little longer than Faramir in this storyline, & back then the ring was not nearly as threatening since they had just defeated Sauron & the only thing he had to lose from keeping it he figured was the chance that Sauron’s spirit MIGHT live on or return SOMEDAY... those aren’t the most threatening odds so I can see why simply holding onto the ring would be way more seductive in that situation... But in this situation, the consequences to not destroying the ring in this moment are FAR(amir) more severe & even just with the wraiths on the way that’s like sudden death guaranteed to happen if he fails. Isildur had on his mind destroying the enemy & warfare for most of the time & all of a sudden he’s confronted with a decision with this so called powerful ring, but Faramir & everyone in the fellowship have been on at least a year long quest specifically for the purpose of destroying the ring, that’s all they’ve been focused on doing, it wasn’t some sudden dilemma they hadn’t given any thought to before. & if Faramir took the ring as late on as Gollum had in the original story, I’m certain his immediate instinct would’ve been to like chuck it over the cliff haha before even pausing to feel what that power is like, he was too aware of its manipulation to take that chance!!

[@rasmusscholermann181]

But if the Hobbits werent captured then Isengard wouldnt have been destroyed by the Ents

[@MenoftheWest]

Indeed, that is why Gandalf awoke them in this version to do the same. Thanks for watching!

[@bucketman3095]

Then... then... they wouldn't be taking the Hobbits to isengard.

[@anna_luin]

I love these videos of yours and particularly this story. I have tears in my eyes only 3 minutes in. Sweet Faramir .

[@darthvader1787]

Well, I don't know if this guy ever read the Lord of The Rings books. Actually, Aragorn is an 87 year old DUNEDAIN ranger and Faramir is a 20-30 year old ITHILEN ranger. Aragorn is a MUCH more experienced ranger and belongs to a more skilled race. If Aragorn didn't realize the Uruk Hai were there, Framir wouldn't make ANY difference. Aragorn is a FAR better ranger than Faramir.

[@kaihaudenschild6535]

exactly what i thought

[@perfectimage1768]

Darth Vader Can't Sleep On Faramir Tho. Yeah Aragorn Better Tham Faramir Because He's experienced and Actually A Gondor King. But Faramir Is Really Experience Too He Just Was Underestimated and He Actually A Great Warrior Even Though He Couldnt Control The Attack Of Osgiliath He Proved That He's a Gondor Warrior

[@catgang]

Great narration, specially during the ending.

[@youtoob4life]

This possibly my favorite LoTR 'what if' video I've seen. One small detail that bothered me about the movies, and something I think you could have addressed, is Gondor's armies. I think with Boromir still in Gondor, he would have had the common sense to must an army to face Mordor. So Minis Tirith would not only have it's defenses bolstered and ready, but have an army waiting to fight. And Aragorns arrival, with reinforcements, would pretty much turn this into a Orc slaughter-fest. Anyways, this was great, keep up the awesome work!

[@jacobmagnussen952]

The Fellowship would have succeeded better with Faramir. But there wouldn't have been three exciting and nail biting books if it played this way.

[@dominikconteurdesornettes8324]

Beautiful video!! I love the character Faramir & Gondor since day one :D :3

[@faw6103]

this series is great, keep em coming

[@johnr7279]

I appreciate these perspectives and the possibilities you discuss. Ultimately, I believe that Faramir making the journey rather than Boromir is really how things SHOULD have gone. Faramir is truly pure of heart and would have been more of a multiplier to the Fellowship than his older brother. Just the fact that Boromir used his "rank" to make the trip shows just how much of an egotist he really was. He was really not putting Minas Tirith first at all. Denethor knew all of this because he knew exactly who Aragorn was years earlier. Faramir would have never taken the ring. The fact that he didn't take it, when he easily could have, in The Two Towers indicates that he would have NEVER taken it at all. I think that the Rohan-Isengard scenario would have been settled first in any case. I think that Sauron likely knew that Rohan was like a secret military superpower on the continent. This was the case because they basically had a huge reserve army made up of heavy cavalry. The same horses that served the economically were also war horses. In effect, they had a small active duty military force but a much larger reserve contingent used only when there was a major conflict. Compare this to the Army of Israel. A VERY powerful military when activated but it also means that the nation kind of shuts down and the economy is temporarily stalled. Again, I think that Sauron was playing Saruman like a chess piece and saving his own military for Gondor and its more direct allies like Dol Amroth. It's tough to say if the Fellowship would've eventually come across the orcs at Amon Hen. It seems clear to me that they were not so much a major tactical force but a smaller one assembled for speed and general stealth. So, maybe a company of no more than 100 orcs rather than something much larger and harder to control. You'd also have to guess that the recently re-mounted Nazgul are out there providing some guidance to the orcs on where to go. Also, the hills of seeing and hearing were...well, they were hills so key terrain. So, I think the orcs would've sought it out just as the Fellowship did under Aragorn's leadership. Would Frodo still have stolen away? I think that it'd still be quite likely. The incident with Boromir only cemented an opinion that was already forming in Frodo's mind. I think that he was mostly driven by the guilt of being under everyone's protection. As things turned out, a couple of Hobbits could pretty much traverse any countryside damned near invisible. I think in any scenario, Frodo's and Sam's departure was a major tactical boon. What would have been very interesting would've have been the scenario when Aragorn eventually reached Minas Tirith. He'd have been Boromir and I'd guess that Denethor would have told him the whole truth at some point about who Thorongil was. There's no telling what could have occurred but it'd have been very contentious. The fact that, as written, Gandalf sort of dealt with Denethor and Aragorn got to swoop in as the king-in-waiting hero was convenient. Can you imagine Aragorn rolling into Minas Tirith and meeting Denethor in front of his throne right next to the king's throne? Talk about awkward! I could maybe even see Denethor giving some secret orders to assassinate Aragorn, then assassinating the assassin. Denethor's greed, jealousy of a returning king, and mental deficiencies from using the palantir made him a totally toxic leader. Anyway, thanks for making this and I've enjoyed seeing this and a few of your other videos so far!

[@edgrajeda]

I mostly agree about how Faramir would’ve behaved but I think complications would come a lot sooner . Boromir would’ve been in Ithilien instead of Faramir fighting Haradrhim and a lot could’ve gone wrong there

[@pmApostic]

I really like your take on this potential turn of events. Faromir has always been one of my favorite characters!

[@thekiss2083]

I also think Frodo would have been more susceptible to the Ring in a larger Fellowship like this. In the books his close friendship with Sam, and kinship with Smeagol, helped him preserve his humanity. But being around so many "powerful, wise people" could have made Frodo more arrogant and resentful of them. He might not have consented to play along all the way to Mt. Doom.

[@JamesMandolare]

I love these conjectures of yours. Thanks for making them. I happen to disagree with this one, even though i really enjoyed it as well. Like Sam, Faramir could not be corrupted by the power of the ring because they both didn't want power. Sam just wanted to get back to his garden and Rosie; and Faramir wanted to be a lord living in peace and studying ancient lore. "I am not a man to desire this thing. Even if I found it on the highway I would not take it." Faramir was pure and would never had been seduced by the One Ring. In your version you leave out the rest of the Fellowship-Gimli, Legolas, the other Hobbits, and Faramir were all there to make sure Frodo threw the ring in the fire-and I think even Faramir would have thrown Frodo into the fire if he had to to save Middle Earth from Sauron's evil.

[@hollish196]

I really enjoy these considerations of "what if." They are well considered, and you lay out the logic well. Thanks!

[@damonjesus445]

The flaw in your logic is cutting Faramir short, right at the end there. Especially after building him up the entire rest of the video. The reality that you overlooked, was the amount of time that Faramir was with the Fellowship. He would have seen Frodo's descent into madness first hand. Thus when they reached the crack of doom, Faramir would have been waiting, and ready, anticipating Frodo's inability to destroy the ring. When the halfling showed the first sign of turning away, Faramir would have struck. Striking Frodo in the back of his head with his mailed fist, thus knocking the hapless halfling out. He would have then reassured the rest of the group that Frodo was still alive, and relatively unharmed. Or, alternatively, warned them before hand about his suspicions, and his plan. Then, knowing the corrupting influence of the One Ring, he would have lifted it from Frodo's unconscious body with his dagger (or some similar tool), and flung the ring into the fire. Thus, insuring the survival of the West, his people, his friends, and the destruction of all threats, in one feel swoop. Or, barring that, the time spent together could have meant that Faramir and Frodo's friendship might have been quite strong. I could see Faramir standing directly behind Frodo, with his hand on the smaller man's shoulder, helping to strengthen his resolve in destroying the ring. A less violent, and more endearing end, than my previous thought. As well as showing the bond that had been forged by the Fellowship during all their time together. That friendship, and fondness for one another, would have been/is stronger than evil. All together not a bad narration. Good job, and God bless you and your family.

[@LandStrider23]

Damon Jesus on point. this is exactly what i thought would occur. Well written and eloquently broken down

[@kanerises9526]

Since Eru intervened in the original timeline (He caused Gollum to trip into the Crack of Doom when he had the ring.), couldn't he have had some sort of intervention in this version of the events? Such as causing the ring to slip out of Frodo's or Faramir's hand while they stood over the lava.

[@stoneminer4464]

THANK you! This is exactly the comment I was looking for!

[@joemackley7894]

So, the fate of Middle-Earth depended on Gollum’s survival.

[@kossend1]

Elrond didn't summon Boromir to the Council. He went in response to the dream - and they didn't know of the Ring prior to the Council (although Denethor may have suspected).

[@orthobear2023]

What if Merry and Pippin hadn't been in Farmer Maggot's crops?

[@seanc7342]

The one hole I see with this theory is with all the time saved on their trip to mount doom the ring would had significantly less time to actually corrupt Frodo into claiming it. In the original timeline Frodo was at his absolute weakest when the ring finally got to him

[@TheTexasStranger]

New to the channel, but loving the content so far. I like the way you thought this would play out, though I do question if Frodo would have failed to give up the ring in the end. He would need to use it less than he had when it was just him and Sam, if at all. It's been awhile since I've read the books but if I recall correctly it was through Frodo's frequent use of the ring that had corrupted him, and with the strength and wisdom of his companions instead of just Sam, i feel he would have been able to cast the ring into the fire. Those are just my thoughts, but otherwise I see how this change in the timeline would lead to their doom. The loses and failures they experienced on the journey were necessary for the fate of the world to play out as it does in the books. Keep up the great content!

[@muyspicypepper8258]

I was worried for a minute, but I'm SO glad it ended up going wrong in this timeline. I say that because it is clearly said by Tolkien, that the week of Eru made all the pieces fall together in the exact way it needed to be, otherwise the quest would have failed any other way

[@alexcwagner]

I know this video is several years old, and there's little point in responding, but I like thinking about this stuff, so I'll throw my two cents in. My impression from the books is that Iluvatar had decided that this was the time in his design for the Ring to be destroyed and Sauron to be defeated, so He would engineer things so that things would go that way. As He said to Melkor, "No theme may be played that hath not its uttermost soure in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite." My understanding of it was that Iluvatar gave beings free will, so things could have unfolded in many different ways, but all choices and decisions still inevitably lead to the same end. Galadriel's claim that "the quest stands upon the edge of a knife" both is and isn't true. It's on the edge of a knife, but Eru is keeping it there, and if it falls off, it miraculously lands on a different knife edge and continues from there. So, all of these "what if" scenarios could be looked at that way. If the storyteller wishes to keep Iluvatar's sovereignty intact, he has to bring the story to the same end. In the hypothetical scenario of this video, perhaps Frodo puts on the ring and Faramir struggles with him similar to the way Gollum did in the original. Sure, Faramir is bigger and stronger, but Frodo is slippery, possibly impervious to pain (like a PCP user), and worst of all, invisible. Maybe in the struggle, they both fall in. I know it's not as thrilling a story as casting a curse on Gollum with the Ring a few moments earlier, and then having the curse destroy the Ring, but it isn't any more implausible. That's just my opinion. But, if you don't like it, you could just as easily claim that, as it turns out, thousands of miles to the east, one of the Blue Wizards was busy forging a Master Master Ring that would turn the Master Ring into a tool for good, and that's what Iluvatar's real plan was all along, and the only reason the quest failing is a tragedy is because we got to know the characters and liked them. In the grand scheme of things, they weren't that important. That's the thing about believing in God. It's always propped up by retroactively claiming whatever happened was according to His plan, and if it seems horrible, you just say that His ways are "mysterious." I suppose I've gone on long enough for something that probably no more than five people are ever going to read.

[@eduardonarcisosalazar9104]

Wow I loved the plot twist. But in reality I think everything would have been ok. Originally the valar intended for faramir to go instead of boromir (that's why he got the visions), considering that, I don't think the outcome would have been worse than the canon timeline.

[@ryanmarcum9044]

Dude, Faramir is such a badass.

[@christophercox8485]

I like that you didn't try to claim the Faramir would have successfully destroyed the ring after he takes it from Frodo, as that would be counter to how Tolkien described the effects of the ring when facing that situation. Bravo.

[@wolftal1178]

Very interesting theory but with some differences, I think much like Boromir, I believe he would’ve split off from the fellowship to warn Gondor of what was happening, or more likely if he had been at the cracks of doom he would’ve quickly ordered the fellowship to move out to blockade the pathway of the tunnel with their bodies to keep Frodo from escaping and then maybe Sam and the other hobbits could try and talk him into sense, maybe even singing one of their joyous Shire songs which I believe might break the hold of the ring enough for him to take it off and then maybe together they could help him destroy the ring. Also remember as it had been a lot quicker, the ring may not have had enough time to influence him to that state. But much of this is still possibly null and void because Again is this has been so early they could’ve made the pass of Caradhras before the snows hit, meaning they would have escaped going to Moria at all, so Gandalf would have still been with them so a very high possibility maybe Gandalf might have gone with Frodo to Mordor, and from his light and guidance he might well have prevented the ring from getting that much of a hold on him???

[@sleven8013]

Wow, that was very compelling. Did not expect the ending! Though for some more action, Boromir could die in a skirmish in Osgiliath.